Small Business Interview with Sara Beznicki of A Gilded Leaf – Small Business Show 107

The Small Business show episode number 107 for Wednesday, February 22, 2017. Greetings folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co the show by, for and about small business owners here in Durham, New Hampshire. I'm Dave Hamilton.

And in Concord, California, I'm Shannon Jean. How's it going, man?

It goes. How's it going with you?

It's good. It's hectic and busy and that's the way I like it.

Tell me about it.

Yeah, it works out good, actually.

Wait to tell me about it because we're not alone.

We're not alone. So, hey, we're joined today. We talked about hanging out in the small business subreddit up on Reddit and I've met some great business owners up there. One of them is Sarah Besnicki from A Gilded Leaf. These folks are making some awesome jewelry. And Sarah, thanks for joining us today.

Thank you for inviting me.

Yeah, that's great. We've had some great success connecting with people like yourself and we really appreciate you having here. So let's talk about your business a little bit. Tell us a little bit about Gilded Leaf, how you got started and what you folks do over there.

So basically my parents started the business back in 1978. Yes. You know, two immigrant, you know, people just try to make a living in New York.

Sure.

So my dad actually wanted to retire a couple years ago and I was doing something totally different and they were guilt tripping me a little bit.

Parents are good at that, right?

Yes. They're like, well, you know, 30 years and they already asked my brothers who are older than me and I said, well, if I come into the business, I would like to do it a little bit differently. Meaning, you know, updated jewelry and doing E Commerce, which they were not familiar with. But yeah, they do like old school kind of jewelry. Very big and very, you know, kind of. What would you say?

So, yeah, so yeah, yeah, after you got you had that conversation with him, it sounds like she said, hey, I'm willing to do it, but I want to kind of do it my way.

Yeah. Because it was very ornate jewelry and a lot of like people our age group can't really afford that kind of jewelry anymore, you know, so we wanted to do something more affordable for them and very simple, minimalistic, not too many diamonds, just something that is more widespread for our age group.

Sure. It totally makes sense. And plus, you know, something you're maybe a little more interested in and can get passionate, you know, about. So yeah, that's that's cool. And so you can. You mentioned earlier you came from the corporate setting before you got involved and took over.

Yeah, but I worked for a designer, like houseware company in Soho and that's how I met Isabel.

Okay.

Yeah. But I did the E Commerce as an E Commerce manager for that end and she did production for them.

Great. That's awesome. We talk about partnerships all the time on this show and how important it is, and it's great to find a good partner.

Yes, definitely.

Yeah. Yeah. So making that transition, you know, from the corporate world to running a small business, what surprised you the most? And I guess you did this about back in 2015, is that right?

Correct.

Okay. Yeah. What surprised you the most about, you know, making the change?

I think when you go from a big company, they. The way they set up positions is that you focus on one position and then when you go transition to your own company and a small business, you are taking on more than one position.

That's probably the biggest understatement.

Isabelle went from production to literally doing everything. She's our photographer and she does everything for our website, customer service. So it takes time and it's a learning curve because there's a lot of things that you have to learn that you didn't have to learn before.

Right. I mean, it seems like you have to respond to the daily challenges and there's no other department to look to to handle that, right?

Yes. It's all us. You have to be very hands on and there's no such thing as, this is not my job. Everything is your job.

That's right. That's great. That's great. So it sounds like you guys are having a great time and you moved out into E commerce and pushed out with some different styles and stuff, increased your marketing presence. You're hanging out up on Reddit and what's worked the best for the business and in the marketing space. What kind of challenges to get your name out there have you faced?

So in the beginning we were trying different outlets and you're always trying to find the cheapest way of getting your name out there and trying not to spend too much money. And also the easiest way to get out because you have like so many things that you have to be in charge of, there's not much time for marketing. So I think when we started doing like Pinterest and Google Ads and Reddit has been helpful, but not too much.

Yeah, I could see that. So Pinterest and I mean, do you do like Etsy and other marketplaces like that.

Yes. So to get our name out there, we're predominantly selling a lot on Etsy.

Okay.

Yeah. I think people feel more comfortable purchasing on Etsy because it's like a. Someone else's can be, can back you up, not just, not just between you and the company.

Right.

So if anything, like any issues occur, Etsy will step in and I think a lot of people feel comfortable with that setup.

Yeah, yeah. Trust getting a trusted, you know, big name behind you in case there's any problems type thing.

Yep. And Etsy has a great SEO.

I was just going to ask how is, I mean, so much of business is going to where the customers are. I mean it'd be great if all the customers came to you. That generally is not how it works. You have to find them and go. So how is Etsy with that? Is that the right move for a lot of business where you, where it makes sense in this jewelry business to go and dive after the customers that are already at Etsy?

Yeah, Etsy is great because they already have their customer base. A lot of people are looking for that new. I think a lot of people are stepping away from bigger companies. So Etsy is that platform where people are finding local businesses and that's pretty much how people find us. And you know, they have great SEO because when one of the first things that we noticed was when people googled us, a lot of the SE products came up first.

Oh yeah.

Interesting, huh?

Because your SEO was so good.

Yeah, sure. And it take. Yeah, it's a long term process on the, on the SEO. So do you, do you take steps to try to convert those Etsy customers once, you know, they buy from you, do you try to convert them to have a direct relationship with them after they buy something?

We've had multiple sales from the same people. We. With Etsy, you try not to. Because we're such a small company with discounting and things, our prices are very close. So we don't. We just reward saying like if you order multiple items from us, you'll get a discount.

I see.

And that's usually how you try to get people to come back. Yeah, but you were at this point we're hoping our quality, like the jewelry quality itself will bring them back.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, we do. I mean with one of my companies, we sell a lot on different marketplaces just like that. And we always try to. It seems like we're constantly thinking about ways to gain the customer and have them come back direct to our website primarily so you can kind of own Them versus them being Etsy customer. And I'm always curious whether other companies do it that way or they just want rather continue handling it, you know, via the marketplace.

So no, we offer like free shipping on our website because we are able to, because Etsy has their fees in place. So we are able to give free shipping on our website because we don't have those fees there. Yeah. So, but we are hoping just to get our name out first and then hopefully they, they kind of trust us that they'll be able to go to our website directly.

Makes sense. Yeah, that's great. So you talked earlier about, you know, getting involved with an existing, you know, brick and mortar traditional business, you know, and then, and then wanting to make, make these changes. Let's talk for a couple minutes about that expansion into E commerce for other listeners out there that maybe haven't jumped in yet. Even though it seems like everybody has a website. I'm always surprised when I talk to some people are like, no, we don't, we don't sell online, you know, any, anything, any tips that you can give our listeners about things that might help out making that transition.

I think don't be so focused on why is it not working and keep trying to do different methods to make it work. If you get stuck on something, don't be stubborn about it. As much as you are proud of your website and things like that, there always has to be changes made to make it more user friendly or more attractive to your customers. So what we did was we used this website was like user testing. Yeah. Where you get strangers to kind of rate your website so they'll go through your website for you and then tell you what kind of changes that they would like to see in your website.

Yeah, that's really cool. So there's a. So the company, the user testing, they kind of bring together people that'll go and check everything out and give you an honest opinion about how the site is and what they like, what they don't.

What a brilliant idea. How did you find out about that?

It was actually Isabelle found it. How did you find it? Just on Google.

That's great.

You know, but that's the thing is just being open to that type of thing. Like you don't have to have 10 people refer you to it. It was probably relatively inexpensive. Is that right? At least to get your feet wet with it.

Yeah, it's actually free.

Well, that's a good price.

It's even better. That's great.

You can pay for the premium package. But I think for one review, like a day or something is free.

That's great. Wow. Yeah, I think that's a huge thing and not complicated with setting up a bunch of a B testing and that kind of thing. Just having real world people sit there and give you feedback on the site is fantastic.

And sometimes it's brutal.

Oh, I can imagine most of it's brutal. Yeah.

That's the hard thing is because you know, you want the feedback but also part of you are like, oh, you know, I spent so much time building this beautiful thing, you know, and then everybody wants, you know, rip it apart. So.

No, but it helped definitely get to a website that we feel very comfortable with.

That's great. And do you sell, do you use a. What platform are you selling on, like a Shopify or anything or.

We're using Shopify.

Using Shopify, yeah. And you've had good success with that?

Yeah, it's very, you know, Shopify is very user friendly and it's all in one place, you know, you don't have to go different places.

Yeah. And do they have. I'm not a huge, you know, I don't know a lot about Shopify other than the basics, but do you use plugins or connections to your Etsy store to push your inventory back and forth or is it. Are they separate?

No, we don't. We, you know, we always test out new apps, but it seems to keep things simple. Don't. We don't really use apps, just the basic, you know, marketing like mailchimp to get out, you know, email marketing. But other than that, it's just mostly making sure your website is user friendly. So picking the correct theme or working with a theme designer that can make the website the way you want it.

Yeah, that makes sense. That's awesome.

So.

What'S the plan now? You've been there, it looked like for, you know, a few years. Shifting over, getting your E commerce, moving into different marketplaces. Is it, you know, are you really going after growth now? Are you trying to, you know, set up different systems or processes? What's your priorities here for the next couple of years for you?

Basically establishing ourselves because we're still a new company, building our social media following and growing our company as well.

Yeah, that makes sense. And what's the, what's the best social media that you guys have found, you know, with, especially with your product that you get the most results out of?

Pinterest, actually. So because we have the buyable pins that Shopify does it automatically for you, it uploads it directly to Pinterest, it's not an extra work for us. Yeah. And people been clicking it to buy our products. They go straight to our website.

That's great. And are you paying Pinterest anything for that or is it just.

I didn't pay them anything for that because Shopify deals with that with them. But you pay, you know, your ads.

Yes.

So which we've been doing, like, if we notice that one pin was getting a lot of attraction, like I can boost it to reach more people.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. So is it you're boosting based on like a keywords or just moving it up to the top of search results.

That type of thing based on your audience, like, you know, your target audience and boosting it through keywords.

That's great. Yeah, that's really good. It sounds like such a good fit for a company design jewelry type thing. Pinterest is.

So Pinterest is driving direct to your website, gildedleaf.com and then anything you sell through Etsy is just whatever Etsy effectively is able to attract for your shop there. Is that right?

Yep. So we, you know, have multiple ways of getting customers.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Every faucet should be running. That's right.

Yep. Very cool.

How what percentage of your business is to the website versus to Etsy, you know, via that channel.

We get mostly through Etsy. Right now is 90% got it through Etsy and then 10% is through our website.

Yep, that makes. Totally makes sense. Like I said, you know, that's where the customers are. Right.

Yeah. So I have a question back kind of in the brick and mortar e commerce thing. So when you started making changes, did you face any difficulties like with existing customers or did you keep those kind of parallel lines? Do you still have your brick and mortar with the giant expensive jewelry, traditional jewelry, versus your hip and cool kind of stuff? You do it at the same time.

So we do have a brick and mortar, but it's mostly through appointment only.

Okay.

But we realized what we tried to do in the beginning was to combine both in one website. And that was confusing people a lot. You can't have two different designs on a website. Has to be cohesive. So we separated the website. I created a, you know, separate website for our older stuff and then the new stuff was just a gilded leaf. And that kept. You really have to keep it very cohesive. One of the feedbacks we got back from the user testing was it was just too much all over the place with design.

Yeah, that's great. I think that's Great advice. And a difficult thing to kind of keep existing customer base happy and then expand out, so. I like that.

Yeah. So our existing customers would go to our old company. Yeah. And our new customers, you know, just basically on what you prefer.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. I think that's a great decision. You know, so we always talk about mistakes on the show. We like mistakes because we all typically learn so much. And we always ask this question, you know, what's the best mistake you've ever made? What mistake you learn from the most? When the last few years. Have you been building the company? Can you share that with us?

I think when you start a company, you go through this panic mode when you're not getting customers.

Panic. What?

Oh, my God, what can I do? And then you start throwing money at these weird places.

Yeah.

To get, you know, to be. You know, get yourself out there, your name out there. And they have so many things that are so attractive, like paying $5, and then you get, you know, a thousand people to your website or something like that. And. But that doesn't convert into sales. And I think that was, like, a mistake because I think I would never do those things again because I know that they're like robots or they're not.

It's tempting, though, right? Yeah, it's tempting because you're looking for any kind of help you can get, and all this stuff comes up when you're searching. And I've definitely.

Because you think you're gonna get real conversions, real people coming to your place, you know, because this person says they have a following, and it doesn't really work that way. And I think you really have to do your research on the people who actually have followers, contacting them and hoping that they'll work with you.

Sure.

Yeah. Don't blindly do it in a panic.

Yeah, that makes sense. It makes sense. Trying to sit back and make calm decisions and doing your research. And I think it's a really good point to make, is that it's not just followers. It's the right people that you're getting and trying to. You'd be better off with less of them, but ones that are more focused on using your business.

You don't want followers. You want customers.

Yep. That was what I learned.

No, that's great advice. I love that. I love it. So as business owners, we talk about growth and cash and revenue. All those things are obviously critically important, but. But how do you guys measure success? How do you and Isabel, what's beyond the monetary stuff? What's the yardstick you've come up with to say, hey, we're doing well and this is working for us.

I think it's the feedback.

Okay.

We ship something out and they come back and they say, this is the most amazing product that I've seen or. And that just feels like we are going in the right direction, where people are happy and they're saying that they're going to come back and, you know, recommend us to their friends. Like that, to me, is that we're getting somewhere.

Yeah. That's powerful. Do you seek out those reviews? I mean, and what review venues do you guys use?

So right now, like, Etsy does it for you, like where they send an email out to the customers. So we've been getting quite a bit of reviews coming back. And then on our website, under each product, you can see people's reviews as well.

That's great. That's cool. So looking back when you first got started back in 2015, if you could go back now and give yourself some advice, what critical piece of advice would you tell yourself based on the volumes of stuff you've learned over the last few years?

Just stay calm and focused and really think about a plan for your business. I think in the beginning, you kind of just jump into it, not really thinking what direction you want to go, and it could come out quite messy. It shows a little bit messier in your design of your website or your product design. I think just to be more focused on what you really want your outcome to be like, how you want your business to look like.

That's great. I love that. It's very good advice. It's a great story. And are your parents thrilled with your success now? I'd imagine they must be, right.

I think they're seeing hope for the jewelry industry. I think for a lot of people in this industry, they're a lot older and a lot of their kids. Kids didn't want to come in and they're closing up shop. And I think this is just hope for the new generation to come in.

That's great.

My mom feels good. It was definitely. It's definitely tough in the beginning. You know, it's a very touch and go.

Yeah. And I think there's a lot of pressure, obviously, you know, on taking over that, you know, probably. And we've talked about it recently on the show more, you know, what's better, Starting from scratch or taking over and having that added pressure. So I commend you for all the stuff you've tried and how everything's worked out for you.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, that's great. So what's the best way for folks to find you?

Our website.

Okay, great. And that's. That's a gildedleaf.com, right? They can get you there. They can buy direct. You're up on Etsy and everything. That. That's great.

Well, if they feel more comfortable with Etsy, we're on Etsy as well.

That's great. Well, thank you guys for hanging out. Sarah and Isabel, we appreciate it and we learned a lot about your business and we wish you nothing but success. You guys have done awesome.

Thank you so much. It was nice meeting you as well.

Yeah, thanks for coming on the show, folks. Remember, you can find them@agildedleaf.com. you can find us at businessshow co. Feedbackusinessshow co is where you can send all of your feedback or you can join our small business support group on Facebook. BusinessShow co. Facebook is the simplest way us to get you there. We'll see you over there. Keep living the charmed life. Have a great week.

Take care, everybody.