Small Business Tax Tips for Filing your Tax Returns – Small Business Show 161

The Small business show episode 161 for Wednesday, March 7, 2018. Greetings, folks, and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co, the show that is by, for and about small business owners here Durham, New Hampshire.

I'm Dave Hamilton and in Lafayette, California, I am Shannon Jean. How are you, Dave?

I'm doing well. I'm doing well.

Good.

How about you, man?

I am doing pretty good.

Good.

I'm, you know, try getting stuff done, kicking something and taking names and. Can you say, can you say ass?

And I think we can say ass on the podcast.

Okay. I just want to be sure.

Yeah.

And not get, not get the explicit label on there.

No. Well, it's up to us to put the explicit label on. Actually, I, we just flip a switch when we publish.

Ah, I got you. I got you. So, yeah, I'm, I'm very good. That's good. Yeah, I'm busy. I've got, you know how I always like to kind of experiment and try new things and I've got some. A new business venture I'm poking around at, trying to. Maybe I'm not, I'm not ready to talk about it, but maybe in a few shows we'll chat about it and maybe revisit my handbag experiment that I did about a year and a half ago, see how that's going.

Yeah, I'd like to, I'd like to revisit that one too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But yeah, it's a.

You.

Yeah. Today.

Well, what I wanted to say was our sponsor for this episode is jamf@jamf.com SBS where you can get your first three devices free. We'll talk more about the details of that in a minute. But I wanted to get that out here in the, in the intro to the show, so that's cool.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What I was going to say is you can always tell about. About a year and a half, two years into a business or project, I start to get, you know, a little, I don't want to use the word bored because it is very interesting to me. But it's like, okay, this is running now. This is working or not working. Right. Jettison it and move on to something else. Or if it's working, it's like, okay, well, now I've got this process and I develop a system now. Now what I can do, what else can I do? That will take more of my time, actually, but challenge yourself and all that kind of stuff. I think I'm kind of there now. So that's Good. We'll chat about that. Chat about that in the future. But today we're going to talk about taxes because it's an exciting time of year, right?

Oh, taxes are actually. You know what? I. I actually like taxes in a sense. I mean, it's. It's fun because you. You can find your way through someone else's rules.

Oh, it's like a challenge, right?

It's like a challenge. Yeah, it is. It's a puzzle. And. And if you look at it that way, I mean, you got to make sure you don't. You don't cross the wrong lines, because obviously, you don't want to go to jail and you get penalties with a hammer. Penalties, right. Yeah, exactly. So you got to be careful with it. But that's. That it sort of adds to the fun, especially when you can find, like. Oh, really? I didn't know I could take a deduction like that. That's cool. You know, it saves you a little more.

And when your accountant. Yeah, when your accountant leans over and goes, oh, wait, you do what? And that's where, you know, talking to your accountant. And we've discussed this a number of times, but just having regular communication with them is important so that they know what's going on in your life. And, you know, now that I've got my offices up in my studio at my house, and we had a rodent problem, and I mentioned that to the guy, and he goes, oh, well, you can write that off, because you're working there all day every day now. And I was like, really? He's like, oh, yeah, absolutely. And it was like, 2,500 bucks. So it's great to have those conversations, Meet your accountant for lunch, send them emails, keep in the loop of what's going on. Not just your business life.

No, just your life in general.

Yeah. Hopefully you enjoy talking to your accountant. And this time, my accountant's like, hey, we need to get together with your personal financial planner too and get us all in the room. And I was like, oh, that's a great idea. You know, and. Cause they've been in communication, but never all together. It was a fascinating meeting because you kind of pointed out a few conflicts that they were having to develop the system, you know, to, you know, retire. I don't know if I'll ever retire, but, you know, have enough money to be financially, you know, free and be autonomous. That is the new thing, to be autonomous. Anonymous. And it was great. It was cool.

That's cool, man.

Back to taxes. I want to stick, you know, Next week is a big due date. Your tax filings for sole proprietors, LLCs and S Corps are due on Thursday, March 15th. And so let's talk a little bit about filing and extensions and all that kind of stuff.

Is that right? I thought sole proprietors weren't due till April.

Yeah, I just looked it up today. It said sole props. March. March 18, March 8, usually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the Monday after 15. Yeah, whatever.

The third. Whatever. Yeah. Now if you. That's with the cash basis. So if you end of your year is, you know, December 31st, but if, if you are on an accrual basis where maybe your end of year is, you know, in February, that. That date is not correct. It's. You have three months after that to. To get.

Okay.

Paid.

But let's give her 15. 2018 is the deadline for filing an S Corp or a partnership return. But personal return, which is what assault for property ship is.

Yeah, yeah. Personal return. So. Yeah. Okay. So it will stand corrected. So, yeah.

And a C Corp will stick with you by the. Oh, no, maybe not.

No. C Corp. In April.

C Corp Is April. That's right. Yeah. So it's part.

This is a good spot.

Yep.

Yeah, this is a good spot. For our disclaimer that.

Right. You don't know what we're talking about. Yeah, that's right.

You're taking tax advice from two business owners, not two accountants.

Right.

And so you definitely.

That's. That's correct. Personal. And C Corp. Is April 17th because I assume the 15th falls on a weekend.

Yes. And it falls on Monday.

Yeah.

And. And also, I think.

Yeah.

Monday is Emancipation day in Washington, D.C. and so they don't. You can't file on that Monday, which is the 16th.

Correct.

So this week you file on Tuesday, so.

Correct, correct. And then. But the S Corp and partnership is the 15th. So if you're a sole proprietor, filing on your personal return, you have till April to file. Otherwise, if you're a sole proprietor with a partnership, which technically isn't a partnership, but you can file it that way, then you're March 15th. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah. So, you know, listen to the show. We're going to reference a few shows we've done in the past and, you know, get whatever tips that might be helpful for you, but then follow up with your accountant because, of course, your personal situation and your business situation is different than Dave's or mine. And so you want to definitely get some tips on there. So what happens if you can't file your Taxes next week for your llc.

Well, whether you can or not, I assume you're filing for an extension because you get.

Well, that's what you need to do.

Yeah, exactly.

And the important part is understand that you can file for an extension on the paperwork, but you cannot file for an extension to pay what you owe.

Right. So if you think you're gonna get. For your personal return, if you think you're gonna get money back or with your business return, if you have no tax due or no additional tax due, if you've paid estimateds or whatever it is.

Yes.

Then you're fine. But otherwise, with that extension or before it, you need to send in your A payment. You know, an estimated payment. Yeah.

They wanna see 90% of what you believe your taxes are going to be.

Not 90% of. 90% of.

Yeah, that's true.

They don't care.

Yeah. What they will be, not what you believe. That's a good point.

I swear I believed it. Yeah, we believe you. Also, here's a fine and a penalty and it's.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

So if you don't pay that 90%, you know, you're going to pay a penalty and you're going to pay interest. So. But the thing is, if, even if you can't pay, you need to file that extension. The late filing penalty is usually much more expensive than the penalties in interest, depending how much you owe.

That's a really good piece of advice. That's right. File the extension if you don't have the cash to pay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The two are, I mean, timing wise, there are. The deadlines for the two are the same, but in terms of actually sending them in, they are not joined at the hip. You can do one instead of the other. And if you can only do one and there's no reason you can't file an extension. So that would be the one. Do it. That's right. Like you said. Because otherwise, then you start getting whacked for, for late fil.

You're burying yourself. Yeah, you're just, you're just burying yourself for more and more. And hopefully if you've seen like, you know, most of my companies have been where we own stuff, you know, inventory and products. And it's very easy to show that you're, I mean, to make a bunch of money and then ask yourself, where is all that money? And then walk in your warehouse and have a few million dollars worth of inventory that you've bought. So if you can't make your quarterlies, your quarterly tax Payments, you know, the previous year. Like if you were having trouble in 2017, 17, making those quarterlies, you're probably going to have trouble making the payment, you know, in, in March. So you need to plan. You got to get, got to get stuff figured out. It should be no surprise to you.

It should be. Yeah, that's right.

But sometimes it is.

I, I've had years in the past. I mean, it's been a while, but I've had them where it's like, oh, right, yeah, I know it's not really a surprise, but it's, it's, it's not, it's not what you were plan. That's right. Yeah, that's right.

So, you know, and extensions typically good for six months, double check that with your accountants. Sometimes they have three months extensions, but you know, and there's nothing wrong with filing extensions. I've filed extensions for each of my businesses every year for the past 20 years. I'm never ready.

Same.

I mean, I probably could be more ready, but I'm always got something else going on and I haven't got all the paperwork. Even today I'm sitting at my desk and I see, you know, I've got like five big manila envelopes that I've been collecting all this tax paperwork that's been coming in from various sources and you know, stuff that I have to get to my account that I haven't got to them yet. And there's no way you can dump that on them as you get close. And I've just found it's actually a much better, more relaxed experience to work with your accountant after March and April have passed. And you know, working with your accountant in June is an entirely different experience than working with them in February.

You get more attention out of them. I noticed on every year I put on my calendar, you know, sometime toward the end of February, send corporate tax info to Bob. Right. And it, you know, I, I, I wind up kicking that can down the road for a couple of months.

Sounds good to say, right?

Well, but you know, the thing is when the day actually comes in, whatever, probably, you know, late spring, early summer, when I actually do, takes me less than two hours. Right. Because all everything's already come in and it's super easy. And I always think, man, why don't I send this stuff? Like, why did I wait till June to do this? I could have done this in March. But the reality is, yeah, actually today I know that I have all the stuff I need and it's all in our accounting Software. We use QuickBooks, like generating the simple reports that he needs from me. It would take less than an hour for all four businesses, really, at this point. So I might do it before I go away. I'm going to south by Southwest down in Austin next week. I might do it. Realistically, I probably won't. And I was thinking the exact same thing you just said. It's like, you know, I've never done this with Bob in March. I wonder if he would, you know, have. Spend the same amount of time. Even if he spends the same amount of time, his mental energy is going to be distracted. Right. Because he's got a zillion things going on right now. It's like, yeah, maybe I really should wait until May to send this to him, you know? Yeah, yeah.

The key thing is to communicate your accountant. Yeah, communicate. Talk to them. And, you know, if you want those extensions filed, make sure you tell them. And don't just assume that it's going to happen unless you're, you know, something. So, you know, all you have to do is fire off a quick email. These guys can get this stuff filed with a few clicks, you know, on their.

Yeah, they have the magic computer, the magic avenue to the irs.

That's right. I mean, I send my guy and he sends me back. Here you go. Here's the confirmations. You know, it's done in like 10 minutes. So you have those confirmations, you can file them away. And you know that. Okay, now I've got. And now, now I can procrastinate a little bit more and, and put it off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kick the can down the road. So. And, you know, the same is with your personal taxes. You know, same rules apply. You want to pay 90%, avoid penalties and fees. And, you know, again, that communication with your accountant, let them know what's going on and make sure that you ask for an extension for both your businesses and your, your personal stuff. You don't, you don't want any surprises.

No, no, I, I don't. That's right. Yep.

Hey, that's right.

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Yeah, yeah. So, you know, we're kind of wrap up on extensions here. We'll put some links in the show. Notes to. You can file these extensions yourself online if you want to. You know, if you're picked out an accountant. Because we've talked before about not picking an accountant out this time of year. So. Yes, you want to, you want to wait.

It's true. If you don't have an accountant, file your extensions yourself and go find an accountant in May or. Yeah, when. Yeah, when they're back from their vacations.

That's right.

Yeah.

You don't want to just try to sneak in and you're just not going to get the kind of attention and, you know, it just looks kind of squirrely and you're running into them to solve the problem. You want to develop that relationship over time and you'll have a, you'll have a better experience.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. So I want to reference, you know, if you're one of the reasons lots of people, I shouldn't say lots of people, but some folks, you know, may not get those extensions filed or, you know, may try to ignore things that are going on with the irs, if you're having issues with the irs. You know, we did a show back in March of 2016 where we talked about ways to interact the with the irs. And I really recommend that you listen to it because there's some really a couple of critical tips in that show that can change your whole experience working with the irs. And I just want to mention the first one is we talked a lot on that show how to humanize your relationship with the irs. You really want to connect with an individual at the IRS that can help you get through this problem, whatever it is. It's usually you owe money that you can't pay or if there's a paperwork issue or something, and maybe you don't owe that money. Don't always assume that they're correct. And so the worst thing to do is stick your head in the sand and try to ignore it because it is not going away. And if you reach out and talk with them and portray yourself in a certain way, again, you can humanize that relationship and it will change everything for how you work with the irs. And the other thing is, the other tip we talked about in that show was don't forget that you're the customer of the irs. You're not trying to please them, actually, in their kind of code of conduct or whatever you want to call. Their mission is to treat you well and to treat, you know, and you're the customer.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Remember, the people that you're. You're talking with, the. At the irs, they're not the ones that wrote the tax law. Right. They didn't write the tax code. They probably don't have any political benefit or even personal benefit in rewriting the tax code. And guess what? Even if they did, they're not the people that can change it. Right. It's not their rules. They want to help you through those as best they can without breaking them. Because, you know, like that it's their job and also it's the law. But. But yeah, you can. You. I like this idea of humanizing.

It's really important and remembering you're.

You are the customer. That's great. Yeah.

And if you don't have an accountant, and you're going to have to deal with them directly, but even if you have an accountant, you should talk to them about it and they can help guide you, too, because it may be that your accountant says, hey, why don't you make this phone call and answer this letter, and I'll stay out of this one. And you may get some better results if it's some smaller dollar amounts, if it's some huge thing. Obviously you're going to have to get some. Somebody else involved. But I've just found that you can really solve some problems quickly if you get the right person on the phone. And, you know, if you don't get the right person on the phone, just request somebody else.

That's it. Super easy.

It's super easy. I've done it several times. If there's some grumpy person on the phone that you just like, wow, I just don't have a good connection with this person. Ask for someone else. It's easy as that. No problem. I'll get another agent for you. And they become your contact. Ask for their extension, ask for their email. Email. And start building a relationship with them of trust. And if they trust you, they're gonna go that extra mile to help you through this problem.

Yep, it's true.

Yeah, real important. So we're talking about phone calls here, and I did want to mention one thing. You know, along with this time of year with tax files, there's tons of IRS scams out there. And I just read about one yesterday where the IRS was reminding people that you cannot pay your taxes with itunes, gift cards, and I Thought that was kind of interesting. It was a real story, not F news. And it's like, wow. So, you know, if, number one, the IRS is not going to call you first, they will always mail you a letter.

Yeah.

They may call you back once you've made a contact with them and you.

Have, you'll know the person there, or at the very least, you'll have a file number. And they'll say, hey, I'm so and so. We've never spoken before, but I'm calling on behalf of so and so that you do know. And here's the file number. They. They know that those phone call. Those scam phone calls are far more common than an actual phone call from the irs. So when they call you, they go out of their way to prove to you who they are. Yeah, yeah.

And you need to make sure you aware of that. And then the same thing with. Before you make any payments, settlements, any kind of agreements, when you're on the phone, ask them to confirm everything in writing. They'll send you a letter, and they'll say, you know, we've agreed in this. Let's say it's an installment plan. You know, one time, you know, one of my companies, we owed some money and we just didn't have it. And they said, okay, we understand you don't have it, but. And we. And we appreciate your willingness to. To work this out. And we'll make these settlements. We'll waive the penalty. It's a very low interest rate. We want to make sure that you're going to make these thing, these payments and get this taken care of. And they mail you a letter to that effect, and then you start making payments. You just want to have that in writing so you have it for your record. So I just wanted to point that out.

Huh. That's pretty cool that they. Yeah, they would do that for you. Oh, that's good.

Yeah. I mean, they'll do for anybody. You just, you know, you got to show them that. Oh, you know, I know we made this mistake or.

Yeah, we had.

Had. Had a rough time this time of year. Unexpected expense, you know, our forklift died, and I had to spend $20,000 to buy a new one, and that was the money we were going to pay. Whatever. Whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, tell them the truth, you know.

Yes. Communicate is the key. If you put your head in the sand, then you will feel the weight of the IRS pushing your head even deeper into the sand. Yeah.

Because that's the only thing they can do at that point.

Right.

Yes.

Yep, yep, yep.

Yeah, so that's cool. So I want to touch on a couple things. You know, we did a show recently about the 2018 tax law changes for the. Those are not going to impact your 2017 taxes.

Okay.

There's a couple of. One changed about deduction of healthcare expenses. But you know, ask your accountant about that. They can help you with that. Lots of good stuff coming down the road for small businesses, especially if you're an LLC or pass through.

But those changes becomes a good year for that. Yep.

Yeah, exactly. And you know, we'll link. We did a show back in January and we'll put the link in the show notes for you to listen to that show. And let me see here what other kind of good stuff that I want to touch. Oh, yeah. So hopefully you've got a good piece of accounting software. You're keeping track of your expenses. But the one thing I see over and over, and I talk to a lot of small business owners now is, especially with those getting started, is they miss deducting or keeping track of all of the expenses that you could deduct. And you know, what does it truly take to run your business? Stuff like promotional items, marketing, travel, advertising. You know, you got to keep track of all this stuff. Your software services, your website, you know, home office expenses, you know, get some help with that to be sure you're, you're keeping track of that correctly. Your insurance, health care, other insurance, all this stuff, you really have to kind of keep a running tab if you're. And hopefully that accounting software is doing that for you. As your bills coming in, you're entering them and then you're spitting that out to your accountant at the end of the year.

One thing that I find super helpful and it seems a little tedious, but it really is just valuable, especially to me, is I do my top level P and L right. From my accounting software, which just shows me top level line items like here's what I spent on payroll, here's what taxes, here's what I spent on telephones and Internet. I open up each one of those and look at the details inside to make sure that things are categorized correctly. Right.

Nice. Yeah.

More often than not, I find one thing, you know, there might be 30 things in there. It's, you know, an expense that we have twice a month or something. I mean, you know, think about, think about it that way. It's not like for most businesses, especially, you know, most small businesses, it's not like you're going to have a thousand transactions in One category that you need to go through, there's probably going to be, you know, less than a hundred. And it's really not that much to just scroll through and look. You can see where it was, you know, the, the vendor that it, that it went to and, and of course, the dollar amount. And I always wind up, like, re. Categorizing some things. And yeah, it feels a little tedious when you talk about it, but going through it, it's like, oh, this is where all the stuff is happening. And I get to go back and like, revisit the entire year. It can give you a feel for, like, especially, you know, this is a good time of year to look back and say, wow, is it really. Are we really spending that much? You know, those monthly recurring expenses where you're at, you know, whatever, 2, 3, 4, $500 for, you know, your cell phones as you sort of just amass stuff and you pack it all in, be like, oh, yeah, we can afford that, or whatever. Then you look, it's like, wow, really? We spent $3,500 on that last year. Like, do we really need that? And then it's worth, you know, having a phone call with your, you know, whatever with your cell provider and just ask them, say, dude, we're. Then, you know what, most of the time, those places, yeah, they'll lower your bill, you know, especially your Internet provider at your office. Right? That's one of those expenses. You're like, yep, we need it. You're not going to cancel it. So whatever the number is, you just pay it every month. And then when you look back at a year, maybe that's up. But yeah, let's dig in. Let's call them and ask. So it's, yeah, yeah.

And I do the same thing. And I always wind up saying these four words. How can that be? I always am looking at like, how did we spend $300,000 with UPS? Then I print that out and I said, hey, UPS rep, we need to go to lunch, you know, and sit down and talk and say, look, you know, what's going on, and we need to get some better, better rates, you know, that. That kind of thing.

So, yeah, we just need. Yeah, exactly. Like, look, we spent 300 grand with you. I think you could do better. Better than. Better than that with us. And it's. Again, it's one of those things, like, you're not going to cancel your relationship with ups, right? I mean, you need them. It's just part of the deal. But, you know, looking at it, big picture, like that and getting out of the weeds as you are, you know, on a day to. You might look and see it come in, like, oh, yeah, there's the expense. And we paid it. No problem. Thankfully, we had the cash flow to cover it. Right. On a daily basis and even on a weekly basis. That's what you're looking at is, you know, can we keep the business going and growing? Great. Awesome. Then when you can look back, you know, you have a different perspective. So.

Yeah. And I think it's.

Put your business owner hat on. Yeah, right.

And as part of the. Our Charmed Life strategy that we talked about, or we talk about all the time on this show, you can also say things like, look, I spent the 300 grand with you last year. Where are those NFL tickets? That why am I not getting invited to this event? And what about the Masters that you guys sponsored last year with this kind of thing? And those kind of. When you drop those kind of things, those little hints, things magically start showing up in the mail to you. And I've taken my kids to all kinds of NFL stuff, met 49er players, and we went to the Orange bowl with FedEx and all kinds of great stuff that, that they are often readily available and want to help you out. But you, you may have to kind of nudge them a little bit.

Yeah, it's okay to ask.

Yeah, absolutely.

Put a smile on your face, you know, like, I like the way you said it. Like, hey, where. Where are those NFL teams?

Yeah, let's joke around about it. And I saw you guys were sponsoring the. This golf tournament back in Atlanta. Any chance of, you know, getting us hooked up for that? You know, and if they go, oh, man, we just can't do it. Okay, no problem. You know, but I just spent 300 grand with you. Yeah.

So I'm going to ask. Ask. And I always tell people when somebody says no, especially when it's one of those things that's like a kind of sort of favor but could be argued is, you know, more than that, you know, I ask. And when they say, oh, man, I can't, I wish I could. No problem. But just so you know, I'm gonna ask you again next year.

Yeah, keep me in mind.

Yeah, keep in mind. And then when you ask him again next year, you get to say, hey, just so you know, as I told you, I'm gonna ask you about this. So here. Here's me asking. And it then, you know, they're like, they. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Ye. For a couple of years, suddenly NFL tickets show up. So.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So last thing on my list today to talk about was, you know, if you find yourself looking for ways to lower that your taxable income, especially small business owners, you know how much, ask yourself and look at how much have you contributed to your retirement accounts this year. There's all kinds of ways and all kinds of rules that you want to talk to your accountant about, depending upon income, age, all kinds of stuff that you really can max out. Some of the numbers are pretty, pretty impressive. That you could write a check to your retirement accounts and you have until April 17th to make that contribution for last year as well, is before you file your individuals, you definitely want to ask, look into that stuff. And even if you're young and in your 20s and you're bulletproof and you're never going to retire, you need to be putting money in.

That would be the best time to put money away. If I could go back and make some different decisions, that's one of the ones I would do is like all that stupid money you spent, just put it away. Pay yourself, Pay your future self first. Yep.

Yeah. And, you know, and if you're older enough and you have kids that are actually, you know, old enough to push a broom or pick up a box and they worked for you at all, you know, you can pay them and actually, you know, do their for their work throughout the year, up to 5,500 bucks. That number actually may be increased because that was a few years ago. And tax free. They're not going to pay any taxes up on that. Put them on your payroll and just have them like stick it in a Roth account. And just think if you were, you know, 10 or 12 years old and your parents dumped that kind of cash in a Roth, you know, every year when things were good, what that number would be like right now.

Yeah.

And that money's tax free for them to withdraw that from. So it's a, it's a great thing to talk to your accountant about how to pay your kids or, you know, some relative that you got working for you.

Yep, Yep.

That's cool. Those are my tips. And we'd love to hear your tips or love to have you tell me where I'm wrong, which happens pretty much all the time, which is great because I get to learn feedback. Business Show Co or BusinessShow Co Facebook. Come talk to us in the small business support group and share your knowledge.

That's it, man. Yeah.

Cool.

Keep living that charmed life. That's. That's how we do it, I think. Big thanks to jam jamf.com SBS that's all I got, man.

Take it easy, everybody.