Teaching Employee Accountability

Accountability Part two. That's what I have on my list today. Shannon, is that what you have on your list?

So far, so good, because that's what I have on my list too today. Dave.

Great. Yeah, you know, yeah, it's. And part two means employees, right? Because it does.

We're going to talk about employees, but I know that you posted a comment in our notes that I thought was rather interesting today. That or a quote, I should say.

Yeah, you know, I was walking. I knew, I suppose this was in the back of my head that we were doing this episode, but I really, truly wasn't thinking about this show. I was actually walking to my house to get lunch and I thought, I just thought I said it out loud. I don't know why I said it out loud, but what I said was there's no motivation and a steady paycheck.

And I think on that you'd be surprised. I have some comments about that. And why don't we start a show and do an episode on this, foreign.

Folks? And welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow co. This is episode 235 for Wednesday, August 7th, 2019. We've got three sponsors for you today. Textexpander.com podcast go co SBS and and a new one, blip billboards.com sps we'll tell you why you've already visited those URLs, because you do that for us in a few minutes here. But. But yeah, we've got some things to talk about, I think. Shannon, shall we. Do you know, can I. Can I defer that conversation? I want to share a review we got from. From Katie. Yeah. On Katie Joy B. I should say on Apple podcasts from the U.S. dave and Shannon, along with their incredible Gu. This will help you move your business forward. You'll get tons of actionable advice and tangible tips, but you'll also get heaps of inspiration from truly engaging individuals that have been where you are and genuine genuinely want to see you succeed. Thanks so much for putting out such a robust resource, guys. Keep up the great work. I put that at the beginning because if somebody hasn't listened to the show before, they might not know what they're going to get. Katie took care of it for us today, so thanks.

I just got a huge hit of dopamine right there.

Same when I heard that.

And the way you can help keep your guest full of dopamine is to visit BusinessShow Co reviews. It helps out tremendously. If you could take literally 30 seconds and leave us a review that goes up to the Apple podcast, whatever you want to call it, network, and that will help us out. And we love that. Love to hear from you.

It does. We've got our new categories set with Apple podcasts and all that stuff. So it's all good. It is part of my crazy day today. Okay, so let's talk about this, because I actually believe that this is universally true. There's no motivation in a steady paycheck.

Go ahead.

No, I know, and I say that. I mean, I'm happy to have my mind changed because I'm. Well, I.

Disagree because I have learned and I think the same way. I agree with that comment 100% for myself. But the people that come work for you are, I believe, are often highly motivated by that steady paycheck. In fact, some of them, especially maybe when they're first getting started, maybe all of them is there. That's their sole motivation to keep that steady paycheck, Especially if they have to pay bills and they've got pay rent or whatever, this kind of thing. I believe that's a big motivator. And as entrepreneurs that are really used to embrace and comfortable embracing risk, I think it scares the hell out of people when you talk like that. I really do. And I see look on their face when I've said things like, well, you know, we're going to talk about it on the today's show about employee accountability when I've said 10 things like, well, you need to find yourself your next job. What is it? They look at you like, what are you talking about? You know, but again, I'm open to that and changing my mind as well.

All right, so. And I think there will be opportunities throughout our accountability discussion to refer to this and, and perhaps, you know, support one side or the other or come up with a completely different view on this. But I really think that, and, and maybe, maybe I need to, to change my phrase a little bit. I mean, it's, it's a nice little sound bite, right?

Yeah, I was thinking that. Yeah.

But it, I think when some, when the only thing that's motivating, the only thing that exists to potentially motivate someone is that steady paycheck, you will not have that person working on that project for very long. I think it needs to be like, I get that there is comfort in a steady paycheck, but comfort and motivation, I think are at odds with each other here. Because if what I've seen and I've made this mistake managing people, and this is why I want to talk about accountability. But when. When you assume that the steady paycheck is enough to motivate someone to do a good job, you. You fail.

Yeah.

It is not like they need to be committed to a vision. They need to feel like they're furthering themselves. They need to. And I say they. We. I mean, we.

Right.

Like all of us.

Yes.

You know, we need to feel like we're. We're doing something that matters.

Right. It.

The steady paycheck. Maybe the steady paycheck is table stakes.

Right.

For.

Yeah, you know, I can see that. To get someone's attention. But that's not the motivating thing. I really. And I've seen it where you take.

Well, it doesn't. It doesn't spur ambition.

That's it. In fact, it kills ambition.

Yeah. So maybe, maybe the motive. Maybe the word is. Or you could play with that word, motivation, but it does not. It does not spur and encourage ambition.

Yes. It deflates it too. You give. Like if you take. I've seen it where I've had people that I thought were business partners, that were entrepreneurs, and then I've come to learn that, you know, what they want is the comfort of a steady paycheck. And as soon as they get it very different, they stop being motivated to drive like that. The hunger goes away.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's where.

Yeah, no, that aspect. I definitely agree with it. I just think you have to kind of parse it and think about how you present. Of course you do. Yeah. Talking to people.

Because I like to scare people, though, because.

Yeah.

Now is an awesome motivator.

Yeah, it is. It is. It is.

No, it might motivate somebody to go work somewhere else, but it is motivation.

Well, so could that. That kind of. This malaise or Malia, whatever, of just getting that check that. That often motivates people to leave as I'm not being challenged. And. And we're going to talk more about that in our accountability, you know, episode here. And. But at first, I think we might want to hear from one of our sponsors.

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Awesome.

Accountability time.

Yeah. So last week on episode one of accountability, this, this is such an important topic, we had to split it up. So if you didn't hear that episode, go back and listen to that. Because as ultimately, as a business owner, the accountability lies with you, right? It's, it stops with you. And one of the first things in teaching your employees to be accountable is to lead by example. And you know, they're going to look to you to see how you handle situations. And I, I would suggest that heaping accountability and responsibility on yourself, even when perhaps you don't feel inside that. Well, that really wasn't, you know, using that 8515 rule which we discussed last week. Take the hit, take the responsibility. Explain how you're taking, hey, you know what? I made a mistake here, or I should have whatever, you know, that. Lead by example. To get everybody used to owning the, you know, all this stuff and used to taking that responsibility, is this not a failure? You know, somebody made a mistake. But you're taking accountability, you're going to learn from it, right? And you, you got to use that example.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you also need to, like you, you can't do any of the rest. If you're not leading by example, at least you can't do any of the rest effectively. So that's talking about table stakes. Like, that's. Sure, that's, that's where your starts, right?

That's where it starts. Yeah. So that's why you need to go back, listen to the first episode. If you're not doing those things, I would suggest you're gonna have a hard time with what we're gonna talk about in the next, you know, 15 minutes or so.

I agree.

Yeah.

One of the things that I always like to. And I. I don't know where I learned this or read it, but I steal everything. So it doesn't matter when an employee fails, it's still your fault. You know, you, the business owner, the. Maybe the manager. And I believe that there's usually two reasons. One is you hired the wrong person. And you kind of alluded to that like, hey, I got a partner. Now, all of a sudden, they just want a paycheck. Well, that's an employee, right?

Yeah, my partner just became an employee. Except they think they own half the business or whatever. Yeah, correct. Yeah.

And that's a. That's a fail. You're being able to see how that. Yeah, that's right.

For my next partnership, you bet. I vetted things very differently. Yeah, of course. That's right.

And so the same with when you're hiring, you know, if. If you agree that this is the person that has the skill set you want, the personality you need, and. And they don't make it, you know, I would say 85% of that's your fault. And the other thing is maybe if they are the right person and they still fail, did they get enough training? Did they. Did they really know what was expected of them? Did you manage their expectations and what was required of them? Does the job instruction have very clear details of, hey, this is what you do every day. This is your person that you're going to work with for the first month that's going to, you know, kind of mentor to you. Are you breaking down, you know, the day in small pieces for them? And I think as a. Depending on the type of person that they are higher up in the food chain, you need to do less of that. Right. But if you're hiring, yeah, in theory, yeah, that's true. You can burn yourself on that, too. But, you know, from. Like, I have a lot of experience hiring technicians. They're awesome people. They're super skilled. But I found that I needed to hand them basically a guide, if you will, when they first came in that said, okay, you're a technician, level one, let's say this is what you do during the day. And then the first thing they want, one of the first things they want to know, how do I get to level two? Okay. You have to achieve these things and you, you know, you're showing them the path to move within your organization, which is a huge motivator.

Right?

Yeah. Okay, so now we've actually switched from like, now we're actually in part two.

Right.

The beginning was, was more reiterating part one. Like every screw up is still your fault as the business owner.

Correct.

But yes. Yeah. This, this idea of you're really spelling it out for them. Here's what I expect of you and here's what I'm making you accountable for. And if you don't do that, those people, some of them will, you know, at different levels and for different things will adopt their own accountability.

Right.

It's just how we are as people. Some people more so than others, whatever. But that's generally not going to work out well unless you're a very, either a very good, very good hirer or you're just lucky. But other than those two things, and really, yeah, you got to do the work. You got to sit down with the person and walk them through what you expect of them.

It's almost like, and we talk a lot about on the show here, working agreements with, with partners. It's, this is really the working agreement with your employees, if you will. Here is what, you know, tech supervisor does. Here is what the office manager does. I mean, you need to write this stuff up, I believe strongly. And, and it doesn't. Again, certain jobs, you have to be more detailed than others and, and you want to leave some wiggle room for creativity and all this kind of stuff and people to make things better. And I think that's a great part of the guide is to have things blank, say, well, what will you add? What will you add to this? Right, sure.

So make the position your own.

Yeah, yeah. From the, from the first day they're there, you're teaching them to own it. They own it.

Right.

It's, it's, this is what you do. This is how you move up in the organization. And I, I think the second part of that is we talk, you know, you talk about exit strategies for business owners and that kind of stuff. Well, I think you need to have that conversation with your employees. What is your exit strategy? Maybe you don't do in the first day because then you really freak them out.

But when are you leaving?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but what is your. You meant when are you leaving that. Because, okay, I hired you as a technician, level one. What is your exit strategy? Oh, I'm going to go to level two and level Three. And then I'm going to get my. This certification, my Apple certification, my A plus certification, my whatever. Then I'm going to become the supervisor. Then I'm going to go open my own location and man and be, you know, a manager. So what is the path for them to continue to move up? And that is that. What's your exit strategy? What is the next thing? Because I always tell them you're going to get bored doing the same thing over and over again, or at least I hope you are.

Right.

And again, you're, I think you, you're treating them differently maybe when that they've been treated in the, in other positions, but you want them to have that, that ownership. It's really, I think, important. And it. Having that discussion from the beginning is easier than trying to do it later.

Yeah. Well, you're, what you're doing is you're creating an environment or a foundation of growth.

Right.

Like this will change. Well, it's a foundation of change and in a specific way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think that that's a really good point that you make. There is change is, is another thing that you need to just embrace with them and get them on board from day one if you can. That, you know, hey, I used to say it all the time. The only constant thing, you know, the only thing that doesn't change around here is that everything changes. You know, when, when there's a product that's doing great and it seems to be like part of the business. Well, eventually that product is going to go away.

Yeah.

And you're going to have to have another product or another service. And you know, don't get stuck in thinking that just because we do it this way today, we're going to be doing it this way next year. And if you, if you get that buy in and that embracing change and challenges and that problem solving early on, that's another huge part of getting them to be accountable and to, to just feel that way, that, oh, this is fine. I don't see it as a huge problem. We're changing the way the whole department works. Whatever we're doing, that's just the way it is around here. And if you get that from the beginning, I think you'll be more successful.

Yeah.

You know, and this may go back to last week's episode in that it's your fault as the business owner, but in order for this to actually work, you have to delegate and mean it. Oh, yeah.

Right.

And you've got to stay out of their way so that they can feel some accountability and also own their mistakes.

Right.

Like they need. And you need to tell them, I know you're going to make mistakes here. That's okay. If you don't tell them that, some people will intuit it just. But you know, eventually they should figure it out if, if you as the business owner or manager are owning your own mistakes. But if, if, if, if it's day one, they might not have seen that yet. Maybe you didn't screw up yet today, or at least not.

Right.

In a way that, you know, that you can talk about.

Right.

Like, you know, just need to tell them it's okay. We all make mistakes here. It's actually how we grow and change.

And it's how you create your business.

Right.

It's. You're trying to solve a problem to get started, trying to fix some, some issue. And the only way to learn is by, you know, going after it and you're going to make mistakes along the way. And, you know, I used to love to hand an expensive piece of equipment to a new technician and say, hey, take this apart. And they look at you like, really? And I go, yeah. And you know, it's okay. You may break it, but we're not going to know what's inside of it until we bust it open, look at the parts and start planning for when people start to break this thing.

Yeah.

And so you got to talk. You got to break it first. Yeah, yeah.

You're talking to talk. You're walking the walk. They see it. Oh, my boss is going to support me. It's okay. If I take this risk. It's okay. I'm. Even though. Yes, I hold you accountable. What I'm holding you accountable in that case is to learn from this mistake.

Right.

And, and apply what you learned, you know, from, from making it.

Yeah. I've got a chart I want to talk about. And, and also I want to. Because it's actually relevant. I want to talk about a interview recently that Bill Gates did where he called Steve Jobs a wizard because.

Nice.

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Right.

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Right?

This was a interview on CNN Business about a month ago. And what he was talking about, you gotta watch Bill say this because it's, you know, he kind of says it in his own way. Of course he has to build himself up too, which is fine. But the person interviewing him asked, you know, if you made a list of the 10 things that you would do to run a successful business. You could look at Steve Jobs and go down that list and say, well, he violated every single one of these. And Bill said, yeah, okay, fine, he did. But he's like, you know, Steve had the ability to cast these spells on people and motivate them to work harder than they've ever worked, longer than they've ever worked, to do the, you know, the best work of their lives for things that, you know, couldn't possibly exist. The way Steve painted this picture. And Bill, because he had to say something about Bill, says, you know, I always saw myself as a minor wizard. He says, I couldn't cast the spells, but the spells didn't work on me. He's like, so that's where. He's like, that's where I sat in the chain. He's like, I wasn't there. I couldn't do the casting. He says, I still can't. He's like, but I could see that these things were just ridiculous. But Steve Jobs was, you know, an awesome motivator and he knew how to give people a little bit more accountability than they were comfortable with, to drive them to do something they never would have done if they were working for someone else, right? And, and so there is this fine line now, by listening to this episode or watching that, you know, four minute clip of Bill Gates, I, I don't think any of us are going to become as good at this as Steve Jobs, right? But we can, we can learn a lesson here. There, there is something to be taken from this. And we can be our own little wizards at, you know, at the levels that it makes sense to be, because you are, you're bringing these people in, you're showing them how your business works, which at some level is kind of like magic, right? Someone walking in the door, it's new, it's exciting, right? They first time to see how your business works, leverage that, right? That you know, you're paying them. They're excited to be there. That if you, if you're not careful, that will be the most excited they ever are. Because I said it before, the steady paycheck is not long term ambition, right? Building. I said it wasn't motivation building. Maybe it's not, but it certainly doesn't build ambition. And you need to capitalize on that first day when the steady paycheck does build ambition and lift it from there by showing people fun things about your business, fun things about what they can do at your business and for your business and really get them committed to driving things forward. So.

Yeah, And I think to me, my takeaway from that too, is that I found that most people don't believe that they can accomplish really great things.

That's really it, isn't it?

They don't. And so your, Your opportunity as a business owner is to remind them, to encourage them and to, to kind of hold them to a higher level of accountability that, and to instill in this confidence that you. They can do greater things than they thought possible. They can solve bigger problems, they can make people happy, they can change people's lives. No matter how mundane you may think in the back of your head, your business process is, or whatever product you're selling, you know, you can have a great impact on people's lives. And that's something to instill into your. To your employees. And they'll. They will achieve more.

They will.

Yeah, they definitely will.

So this chart, Shannon, I.

Yes.

Yeah. So you, you know, I, I mentioned I've wound up more than once actually with a business partner. Maybe this is a fault. It's definitely my fault with a business partner that, that so, you know, wanted to be more of an employee and really was just looking for me to, to be the one that drives the bus. And that's fine. But I, but I. What I have learned is how to, how to deal with those people, but in a productive way. And it also applies to people that you would be putting or elevating to, you know, higher levels of management where they are going to be creating some of the things that they're going to do for the business.

Right.

You're giving them the ability, ability to manage some risk. And, you know, I, I had, I had one partner once that we were talking and said to this person, you know, you, you, you. You're not doing enough. And, and the answer was, well, you know, I'm. I'm the boss. I. No one's telling me what to do next. I'm like, right, correct.

That's the point.

That's the point.

Right.

You have to come up with it. So. But I realize that can be.

It's hard. It's hard.

Yeah, it's very hard to be really scary. And so you just need to come up with formulas for ways to do this. And what I often have said is make a chart and list all the things that you have on your mind. Like, okay, here's all the things that I know need to be done at the business or I want to do at the business. And two sides to the chart, things that make the Business money and things that don't make the business money.

Right?

Money making, not money making. Especially at the beginning, when someone's in a role like that, they want to feel like they're doing something that is marching the business forward.

Right?

So you make your chart and it's really easy to take a look at something and decide which column it belongs in.

Right.

I mean, it's not necessarily like obvious. In a gut glance, you might need to take 10 seconds and think through, is this actually a money making thing? Actually, you know what it is or no, it's not. But it's not going to take you very long. You can go through the list and then, okay, great. For now, don't worry about the not money making stuff. Don't throw that away because we're going to come back to that in a few weeks. But for right now, what can you do that will make the business more money? That is the kind of thing that people can be motivated by, right? Like, oh, look, I'm doing something positive. I'm adding value because money is value in our culture, right? Like, that's how we quantify value. So, like, that chart can be. And I've used this, this chart with lots of, in lots of different scenarios. I've used it with, you know, extended family members that are going through, like rough patches and I, you know, I don't know what to do. Like just, okay, make the chart. What are the things you can do to make money? Forget about the rest of them right now. Just go, yeah, yeah, I like it. It's great.

Yeah, it's, it kind of reminds you, we've talked about this before. You know, if you're stuck, you know, in your business, think about, what can I do today? Generate today to generate revenue. That's what is the most important thing to do today to generate revenue. And I use that trick all the time. Because, you know, there. Even though, you know, you'd be surprised to know, I mean, I have a big mouth here on the show, but I'm often. Okay, what, what is the most important thing to do today? And I, I use that as my divining rod to kind of get me going.

Yeah, I have to do it because I'll get. I like, I love lots of things. I love the activities that make money, but I also really love the activities that don't. Squirrel.

Right?

Squirrel.

Yes, totally.

Yeah. So it's the money making slash squirrel chart is really what it becomes. And you just, you know, but you, you, it's. Once you do that, it's really easy to see. Okay, these are the things I should do today. That's fine.

Yeah.

And I don't mean to say that the not money making stuff is not important. You know, for, for me, one of my favorite things to engage in is updating our software internally, building new modules and like enhancing things. Programming is really fun for me in that regard. It doesn't make me money that day.

Right.

It will help me be more efficient down the road with the business. And then that actually does make us money or by making our partners happier because it's providing, you know, more information to them. That's a good thing. And without our publisher partners, we don't make money. So like it is, you don't want to ignore it forever, but sometimes you got to look at, okay, let's get the money making stuff out of the way first. Now we can.

Well, it's a start. I'm a. But yeah, I'm a huge proponent that, you know, action breeds more action. So if you get going on that premise, then it, it will lead you into other things that need to get done.

Yes, that's true. Yeah, I like it.

So I have a couple more things on the employee accountability that I'd like to cover real quickly before we jump into another section. One of the things that I've always had a hard time with, and you know, maybe we all do, is addressing, you know, poor performance quickly and, and the, the way I feel that helps with accountability, especially with your other employees that may not be having a problem, but they see what's going on, they probably see it better than you do. Somebody that's not carrying their weight, somebody that's making mistakes over and over again, you can't let that stuff build up. But as soon as you hear about it, you need to get together and, you know, and I use this thing, you know, I, I like, like the compliment sandwich. Right. So, you know, I sit down, hey, here's what's going good. Here's what I like this. You, you've really made some great progress in this area. And then I hit him with the, here's the problem. You know, we can't do this anymore, or we have to add this, or when this happens, we need to do it this way. And then I go back and it, you know, as we're walking out of the conversation, look, I know you have the skills to fix these problems because look at what you did here. So I, I try to, you know, sandwich this stuff together. I think it has more staying power than if you just Hammer them on the problem.

You've talked about the compliment sandwich before, but that's the first time it, you explained the, you know, the, the details in a way that made me feel comfortable with it. I, you know, like the idea of the compliment sandwich. Every time you've mentioned it, I've always thought, oh well, it's so transparently the compliments sandwich. But it's really true. No, it's not.

Yeah, it, you're, you're like, hey, yeah, the reason you're here is because of X. Yeah, we need to fix this. And I know you can fix it because look what you've done to this point. You know, that kind of thing.

Yeah.

And, and it does work. And I've always tried, you know, I want them to or the people that work for me to perform for themselves. And you know, I certainly out of respect for me, but also out of love of the company, love of the customer, the whole concept.

Right.

And, and then which kind of leads me into the last point I want to make on this topic is really focusing on the systems versus goals concept. And you know, I really only learned this a few years ago, but it's a powerful way to get their buy in instead of this, you know, big goal that's at the end of every month, end of every quarter, end of every week. Whatever it is that they're struggling to keep up for is getting them involved in, in how the system is supposed to work. And if we create this system, here's what we're going to achieve together. And then you keep tweaking the system and iterating constant focus to get things done. It's not a goal that you're going to either make it or fail. It's like we're creating the system that's going to create a great business and these are all the components of it. It's, I think it's really a powerful way to get that accountability cemented in with your employees.

Yeah, yeah, that it.

Right.

Don't even talk about goals. Just make the. If somebody needs to think about goals, the goal is to make the system the best it can be. And it will never be the best. Which means you get to constantly iterate.

Constantly.

Yeah.

And the part of that system in. And maybe the first thing on the, on your list is we want to create a great place we can all work. It's the customer is not the most important person. So your team, your employees and you are the most important people in the organization because without you, there are no customers.

Right.

And so when you get that across to the, your team and your employees, they look at you a little different. And if, but you, you can't just talk about it. You have to really implement this system that backs them up, that, that protects them. So when they need and when they're treating customers a certain way, you're not going to pull the rug out from underneath them, you know, and give away, you know, and just change it every single time. Which sometimes happens when things get escalated. And if you do do it, you have to explain why I changed that decision because of this and.

Right.

You know, so, because it will happen.

Sometimes that you need to override an employee's decision. And if, well, I've had, we've all had experience with that. If someone can't, especially repeatedly can't accept that without some, you know, ego driven pushback, I found they're the wrong employee. Now, yeah, you can handle it the wrong way. I mean, you can create an environment where an employee is, where almost everyone is going to do that. So you need to be a little self aware in that, in that regard. But yeah, it needs to be okay for you to say, hey, look, you, you know, here's the thing. We're going to have to reverse this and here's why. And you know, and if they, if they can take that without feeling sour about it because they're really, you know, it's still your fault.

Right.

You flexibility and freedom. They did a thing and most of the time you let them continue to do the thing and then just, you know, course corrected after the fact. As long as it's, you know, as long as you've got some of that rewinding occasionally on someone. Yeah.

And I think that you, you have to also empower them. If they ask you, okay, if this happens again, can I do that? And if you are comfortable saying yes, then maybe you should think, maybe I shouldn't have given that customer X. Maybe I shouldn't have overnighted that item. You know, I don't. I think you have to ask yourself that question because.

Great question.

Yeah. Because if they should be able to do it right and you're trying to train and empower them and hold them accountable, because I would rather they came to me and said, hey, I just want to let you know I overnighted this item and paid the shipping because we screwed up here. X. And if I disagreed, then I would say, well, hey, I'm really great. You made the customer happy. Let me tell you how I would have done it. Maybe I would have tried to send it Today, you know, instead of overnight. And we maybe would have saved 30 bucks in shipping or something like that. But if, if you're gonna, if you're constantly second guessing them, then you, you're, you're not really delegating to them. You're doing their job. So you have to, I, I would say you need to let them make the same decision that you made, if you can.

That's interesting. Yeah. I know some companies have a, they give employees, you know, to solve a problem. You have a budget of X. Yeah. And that budget's different for every company and, and even every position. But it needs to be enough so that they, like, somebody can feel like, okay, I can spend 200 bucks to solve a problem. Now I need to report that I've spent this.

Sure.

Bucks to solve the problem. And if it's happening three times a day, you know, we'll have a conversation. But. Yeah, but for any given problem, you got x, you know, 200 bucks. Whatever it is, solve the problem, make the customer happy. Okay, good, move on. And that way they don't have to pester you with that kind of stuff. You can just, just, you know, sort of debrief it after the fact.

Yeah.

The day I walked by our customer service department and I heard another employee say, just do it. You know, Shannon's gonna just do it anyway. I was like, oh, they get it. They get it. You don't come to me because you want to expedite and treat a customer a certain way. I would. I'm confident in your ability that you are not doing it over and over and over. And that in this particular situation, especially if we screwed up, right. I mean, there's lots of, lots of situations beyond our control. You don't maybe feel compelled to do that. But in a situation where we made a mistake, you have really, you know, we've talked about it ad nauseam on this show. You have really one chance to make it right and gain a customer's loyalty for life. So I, you know, you're empowered to do it and you'll be celebrated when you do it. Not, you know, berated for spending a little extra money.

I know we have some business therapy to get to for you, Shannon.

We do. I have a big question I need help with.

So. Okay, so before we do that, right. I want to talk about our next sponsor, which is Go Co.

Right.

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All right, so this is the business therapy section here where we get to talk about our own businesses, what's going on and what we may need help with. And one of the things a company that I've been, you know, really working to get off the ground for the last year, and we've been kind of finding our way, shifting from products, moving things around, which is a little. I won't go into details on that, but one of the shifts we've recently done is that we're selling a guide that to help you in a certain market niche. And I've always wanted to be in the content business, which is great. And you know, this guy not to.

Be in the content business.

Well, you know, I wanted to create content that I could sell. So I have this, you know, we have this Guide. It's over 100 pages. It's super useful. And in. So part of this package that you get when you buy this guide is you get connected to this forum where you can connect with other business owners like myself and get your questions answered. And it's kind of a companion piece with this guide that you purchase and you get, you know, a free. You buy the guide and you get a month free up on this forum. And so we're just get. We're not even launched yet. But in this forum, as I'm really educated myself trying to come up with the process to get this thing started, everywhere I read, it's like, okay, to get your forums going, you have to create a bunch of different Personas and you have to post as these different people in this to show all this activity. And it's like, it's such a great product. I know it's a great product that we're going to be offering. I know it will really help a lot of people. And I have this sense of, well, it's kind of not authentic to create a bunch of Personas and post a bunch of things. But everything I've read is like, like everyone has done this from the founders of Reddit to, I mean, you name it. And I can remember talking to you about this, Dave, years ago. It's like, oh, yeah, you have to get up there and create some activity. But I'm struggling with, with that aspect of it and I wanted to get your feedback on it.

Yeah, you do need to create activity. Now. We've never, to my knowledge, created a, like a fake or duplicate forum account for any staffer. That might not be true. Like, we might have. Someone might have created a, a fake account to, you know, to serve a specific purpose. You know, I want to say something in forums, but I don't want it attributed to me, the author of the article or what, you know, whatever. So it might have happened. I don't want to say that it definitively. No. But as a practice, no, we have not. I have not gone in and with 10 accounts and had conversations with myself.

Right, right.

But the concept, yes, it. Where it's like, okay, we're launching the forums. Every staffer now is tasked with spending an hour a day in the forums. And, you know, we'll have, at any given point in time in Mac Observers history, you know, we'll have anywhere between like, you know, 6 and 12, you know, staffers and freelancers. And so by pulling on this pool of people, we've been able to kind of have conversations amongst ourselves.

Got it.

Right. And I think, you know, have I brought my wife in? Have people brought their significant others in to, you know, create what feels. It's so. Yes. Is it inauthentic in that? In a sense, in the sense that you're talking about. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Right.

You know, but, but is it. Are these, you know, for us it was for the most part actual people, you know, one to one. But sure, that makes sense.

I like that.

Calculated and a scripted in the sense.

Well, it's like a chicken and egg thing, right?

Yeah.

People aren't going to come to the forums unless there's activity. You got activity unless people come to the forums. Right?

Correct. Unless you have an audience from somewhere else.

Right.

If you can, you can take your audience and say, hey, please come over here. You're our fans, we need you.

Right.

But if you're starting from zero, then you don't have that audience, that engagement level of your audience.

Right.

You know that.

Yeah.

You need to. You just need to do that. Yeah, it's.

Oh, that's great. That's good. I like the way that that sounds and I appreciate the feedback and if you have questions or comments, you know, we'd love to hear from you at Feedback Business Show Co. And remember, is.

That Feedback Business Show Co. That's it.

Feedback Business Show Co.

I almost feel like we should have therapy at Business Show Cos.

I like that.

Because business therapy doesn't just need to be for you and me. Yeah, for everyone. I mean, I already know what I'm going to ask about on our next business Therapy. I like it. So like I'm next, folks. But you can, you know, be after that. You can get in line behind me. Just send your emails in. I'll set up the email address.

That's.

I.

What? Fine.

Yeah. Therapyusiness Show Co. That sounds great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Very good, very good. Well, thank you for listening everybody. Remember, you can leave us a review at BusinessShow Co Review. It would be one of the most helpful things that you could do if you are enjoying the show at all.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's good stuff. And I know we're not. I. I know all the rules of content say that I shouldn't add a third thing, but you know, you can call or text us at 401-472-4249 because why not, right? Why not?

You gotta. Why not?

Yeah, why not?

Get connected one way or another.

That's it. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks to all of our sponsors, of course, textexpander.com podcast blipbillboards.com SBS go.co and you, thanks to all of you, keep living that charmed life.