The Luxury of Exhausting Work + Hiring Rock Stars

The Small business show episode 316 for Wednesday, February 24, 2021. Greetings folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co, where we engage in the practice of small businessing together every week here in Durham, New Hampshire. I'm Dave Hamilton.

And here in Lafayette, California, I am Shannon Jean. And it is a practice, isn't it?

It is.

It's a constant trying to get create this cycle of improving and practicing every day to be the best we can be. Right?

Yeah. I'm not perfect at it, but they say that perfect practice makes perfect, so I'm working on that part of it, perfecting my practice. Also, I want to say something to you. Happy anniversary. Because last Friday, February 19th was our sixth anniversary of launching our first episode of this show.

That's awesome. Yeah, that's great. I've really enjoyed it. It's one of the highlights of my week. I love talking about small business. I could just carry a recorder around with me all the time because I always seem to be talking about it when people ask me questions and stuff. That's awesome. It's been a great six years. I look forward to the next six.

The next six, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I've been, I've been busy lately and I use that word, but I've also been productive. But my time has been massively occupied. And two weeks, three weeks ago, I started on the same day I started teaching this class at the University of New Hampshire here at the business of podcasting, which is a once a week thing. But it's my first time ever teaching a college class and only also my first time teaching this class, obviously, so I don't have any experience. I don't know how it's going to go. It's a 14 week class, obviously I've done quite a bit of prep work, but that prep work is just there. So that in the moment when I realize it's not right. I know maybe what else I might have on deck as we, as we craft this class next semester will be fantastic because we'll know how it goes. But it's been stressful, right? You know, I mean, understandably and yeah, acceptably stressful, but stressful. So I started that on February 1st and also that very same day I started what's known in the theater circles as Tech Week for a show that I'm currently playing now, a show called Next to Normal. Very difficult score, arguably one of the most difficult scores that exist for a musical. And I've played it before, but still it's you know, it, it requires a lot of time to prep for, but then also simply requires a lot of time, especially tech week. That means that's the week where you're there every day at the theater playing through the show. Everybody's sort of learning it together. Hopefully people come in knowing their own parts, but still assembling it and finding the way to flow it all together and all that. It just takes time. And so, you know, and a lot of reps, so you're just playing through it a bunch. And so I was thinking as I was getting ready to record today, like, you know, it wasn't until maybe Thursday of last week. So, you know, several weeks into, okay, the show's settled, my class at UNH is settled, and it's like, wait a minute. I've been keeping up with all of my work, but I haven't been. Like, when I'm at the theater, I'm not checking my email as religiously as I normally might, as frequently as I normally might. Right. It's just I wind up putting the phone down and then hours go by and I don't, I don't touch it, which is weird for me. Like, I'm detached in a sense. I've been more detached from work than probably I have been in the last year. Just because, you know, I haven't been traveling or anything. That, that also causes some level of that detachment, you know, and, and I was thinking about how valuable that is. I mean, it's a double edged sword for sure. But you know, there is this luxury of exhausting work that allows you. It sort of forces that perspective on, on me anyway, because it forced me to not be as engaged with my businesses as I normally would be. Again, I wasn't letting too much fall through the cracks. There might have been a few things, but, you know, I was keeping up with, with things, paying attention, but not engaged as I normally would be. And there's some level of that that's a really good thing, I think.

I think so.

Yeah.

And I think that, you know, you have talked before on the know, multitasking is kind of a myth, right? And you need to be able to do that, focus and manage. You need a wide bandwidth. But, but jumping from task to task like a squirrel is, is not the, the way to live your small business life, right?

No, it takes time for, for my brain to get focused on a task. Right. And so it, you know, especially if it's a deep task, I think of it as like going into different holes and it's like Well, I could jump from hole to hole, but I'm only going to be able to go a foot in and then I got to get a foot out and go over and jump in the next hole. So if I'm 20ft deep, I kind of want to stay there, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And I think it also is. Can. Can be. It could teach us that everything doesn't have to happen so quickly, you know, with your other businesses, you don't. Maybe you don't have to have that instant response which we're. So I don't know about you, but I'm kind of conditioned. You know, when I see something pop up, man, I'm like, o. I got to solve that quick and I'm going to move this or I don't want to miss that opportunity. I got to deal with this. But when you are forced to be. To step away a bit and things still work out okay.

Yes, yes.

Then I think that goes a long way to maybe showing us that, okay, it's okay if I get to things at a certain time or if I allocate like I tried with my day to break it up into chunks like, okay, I'm going to focus on this task or this business, you know, from, you know, 8 to noon today or whatever.

Sure.

Well, it's so easy to get interrupted with things that I've supposedly I'm going to work on in the afternoon that it's. It. I feel like maybe I'm not as productive in that, you know, that morning chunk of time when I'm jumping back and forth, so. But it is a luxury, like you said, to be able to step away. And I would say that that's a testament to your good creating this system that can survive and thrive without you having to be into it every few minutes.

Right, yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, it shows what parts of the system can survive and thrive, and it also highlights the parts that cannot. Right. And that's an okay thing. And I think this we mentioned or we talked about at the beginning of the episode that this is a practice. Right. And I know that 10, let's go back 10 years. It probably was even more recently than that, but 10 years ago, I had a system in place that I would keep things sort of moving along, but I wasn't paying attention to what fell through the cracks, which parts of the system succeeded, which parts failed when I would detach. And because I wasn't paying attention to that, A, I wasn't fixing it, but also B, I was not realizing that I couldn't just simply detach more. Right, sure. If you're not aware of what's going through or if you're not looking for what's failing, then you just think, well, everything's great. And over time, of course, I proved to myself that that wasn't the case and I had to step in and really get some things fixed, which is fine. I mean, it's, it's, things are much better than they have been in a very long time. But last week it was like, okay. When I finally dug back in, I spent several hours on Thursday morning just kind of cleaning through my inbox and other tasks oriented things that I have. And it was like, okay, so this survived, this did not. Okay, great, like I can fix. I mean, it's, you know, at Most it was 10 days from when I began this, this detachment. Right. And it was a semi detachment, to be fair. Nothing cratered. The business is still, all the businesses are still fine. But it really was, you know, a learning process of, oh, okay, this is one thing, but that I really shouldn't let fall through the cracks. If I'm going to detach, I need to delegate this. And maybe I need to delegate it even when I'm not detached so that I can do other things for the business. You know, it, it, it's a valuable, I, I, I really find it valuable.

Yeah, it's, yeah, I think so too. And it's funny because when you started talking about this before we hit the record button and I, I found myself a little, maybe a shorter window, about five days where I had to go out of town and work on a, a vacation rental that we own. And I said, you know, I'm going to figure this out. I want to, I want to learn how. I wanted to put a new kitchen in which I know nothing about. And you know, I've learned a tremendous amount just the logistics of making everything happen and getting all this, this place is very rural, about an hour from the, you know, nearest large Lowe's or Home Depot type place.

Sure.

And so you have to plan things out and deliveries and this and that. And because it was so all encompassing and it took all my physical and a lot of my mental ability, I found myself really out of necessity disconnecting as well and not wanting, Normally I go, okay, well if I had this project during the day, I'll grab my laptop and you know, in the evening and I'll just catch up. But I just couldn't do it. And so as I mentioned to you, not only did I Could, you know, really disconnect. But I had to grapple with stepping back into things this morning when I finally got back in the office.

Yeah.

Last, last Wednesday when I left. But I can now say I have a whole nother talent. Part of my talent stack that, you know, whether it be useful for me or not, you know, knowing how to install cabinets, a dishwasher, this, this brand new countertops. I mean, all these kinds of things that I, That I learned are great and I, I know I'll put. And it makes me feel good every time I look at it. Right When I go up there, when I have guests up there that, that rent the place. But this morning it's like, okay, you know, mailbox is just flooded. Nothing urgent like you said. I had to kind of, you know, I kept touch a bit with a few things, but for the most part, I've set my businesses up now that I can kind of turn things off and on, which I really. It is a luxury. Yeah, yeah. And I don't have. I have a couple of assistants virtual that, you know, I work with. I've got some deadlines that I always have to meet. I have a, A new book about ebay that has to be uploaded by Friday, so it publishes on Monday. And so all those things I, I can take care of, but being able to kind of turn the customers off that I'm used to dealing with is fantastic.

That's fascinating.

It is a luxury. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, to your point, it is really a luxury of exhaustive. What did you call it? Luxury of exhaustive work.

Exhausting work. But sure, yeah, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that, that detachment, doing something. You with the cabinets, me with the theater show, that requires 100% of your focus for a long stretch of time. You know, we are. Like you said, you might schedule your, your morning 8 to 12. You're going to do a certain thing, but you can be interrupted fairly easily. It's. It's just you. Right. Whereas when you're building your cabinets or I'm doing this theater show, I really can't be interrupted. And you, you know, you're. Once you're in it, you've got all this stuff going on with your cabinets and everything. You can't just be like, all right, well, you know, let me go take care of this thing for 10 minutes. I'll. I'll just come right back. No, that's, you know, we were talking about. You're deep in the hole. Like, we're 100ft deep at that point. So you really can't. And it's rare for me to give myself the luxury of being that deep in any kind of hole. It might happen with programming sometimes it might, you know, for me it might happen with, you know, a gig like that. But it, that forced detachment, I think is really healthy.

It is, Yeah, I agree. And I, yeah. And I think that it's like I said, I said earlier, you know, identifying what things are strong enough to kind of take care of themselves or you have somebody else delegate it or something like that.

Yeah.

Or things that, wow, you know, this is a weak point that, you know, if it's not making, it's not working without you constantly being involved in it, you know, then maybe you should reassess how it, how it's not working.

Yeah, no, it's a great, it's a great ability to, you know, to have that, that forced perspective, I guess, is, is really what we're talking about here.

And, and if to your point about delegating, it's like, okay, well, do I. Am I the right resource to be in charge of this, you know, dirt Joe? I have to get someone else to take care of it, one of my employees, a contractor, you know, that kind of thing. And yeah, you know, as a solopreneur like I am now, I often am reminded that, you know, your resources are much more limited and, and I have to be way, much, much more efficient with my time and some things I just can't do and I get involved in some project and I start to see those weaknesses that if I'm not tending it, you know, really close, I start thinking, you know, is this really. Do I really want to be involved in this project?

Yeah.

And, and I have, you know, so I think that forced, you know, that detachment, it not only just helps kind of cleanse your brain of their day to day routine, which I hate. You know, getting stuck in a routine is in. Is just not a good thing in my opinion.

It's. It's not. Yeah, it's not.

Yeah.

And. Yeah.

And so being forced to go out I think is great.

I, I think so too. I think so too. So. Yeah. Let us know your thoughts on this, folks. Feedback@businessshow co. We'd love to hear what techniques you use to, to break those cycles and identify those cycles. Right. Because when you're in them, you don't necessarily know off the top, you know, right away.

I like that. Yeah.

Yeah. Let us know. Feedbackus show co Shannon, we've got a couple other things to talk about the next Thing that I want to talk about is our sponsor for this episode, if, if we're good with this. And that's okay.

Yeah, let's do it.

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I think we've, we've discussed it, but again, it would be great to get some feedback. Listen, you know, hear what, what folks have to say if they like, you know, how they use this concept of disconnecting and then what techniques you use to kind of ramp back up when you get back in into work mode.

Absolutely. Yeah. All right, so we have an email here. A little business therapy time. Shannon from. We'll call this person Mr. X who says, should we hire an extra employee when we don't have an immediate need for them. And Mr. X goes on here. I've often heard it said that if a crackerjack person, the excuse, the old person term comes along, the rock star if you will, you should hire them and then find a job for them, even if you don't have an immediate specific need. On the other hand, an important productivity to profit ratio is the sales per employee. So if I hire someone new, that obviously changes my ratio in potentially a negative way. So here's. And Mr. X goes through a few things here which I like. It's a good little setup. The pros that Mr. X sees. If you hire this rock star, there's a good chance that they'll do something to increase sales themselves and thereby justify their hiring. Since you don't really need them, you can afford to be picky. Don't hire them unless you're sure they are amazing and then you can feel free to dismiss them if they don't prove themselves within three months. Six months. Okay. Another pro. Someday you're going to need a new employee anyway. So this way you can hire someone without any timeline pressures. If you hire them when you don't need them, then when you do, they're already trained up and in place and you can sort of move them around in the company wherever they need to go. So those are the pros that Mr. X lists. The cons. The most obvious con, of course, cost. Depending on how many employees you currently have, you could be significantly increasing your payroll. And do any of your current employees feel intimidated by a new hire? Or especially if they know you don't need someone, do they feel as if they're being replaced? Or as I call it, pre placed right. Bringing on someone and then letting them go. The con is another con. There's nothing worse than having an employee who doesn't have work to do and you have to spend all of your time finding things for them. Another potential benefit if your current staff is good but not great is that by simply having this rock star on staff, it may rub off on them and you may find that the rest of your staff upping their game just so that this new person doesn't show them up. As you can guess, this is something I've thought about recently. Mr. X says. I know that I have at least one employee who will be retiring over the next few years. So the idea of taking my time and finding that amazing replacement beforehand is appealing. But with a small company, Mr. X says they've only got four employees plus themselves, but this would add a fair bit to the payroll in the time before they need to. Also, Mr. X points out that they have another employee who is okay at best. No compelling reason to let them go, but they don't give me a lot of confidence in their long term contributions. If I already had a new Rockstar employee waiting in the wings, it would make letting the okay employee go that much easier. So I have a lot of thoughts on this, man.

Yeah, so do I.

Go ahead.

Well, number one, this is a terrific type of email or question to send in to the Small Business Show. You know, it's thought very thoughtful that you know, laying the pros and cons out. I mean this, the Mr. X is going through this exercise himself kind of how we're going to talk about it, but it's got, it's just, you know, after writing something like this, as a small business owner, you're just way closer to being able to make, I think, a, an informed decision.

Right.

Even without hearing our, our input on it. That first of all. So I really, I do love this concept of hiring someone that you come across. And especially I've had the position where I've had someone approach me that wanted to work for us. Yeah, that, that you know, hey, I know about your company. I've heard this. I've followed you guys here. I want to come work for you. These are my, this is my background. What can I do? And I think those types of potential employees have a, you know, they want to prove themselves. Right. And it's a different level of hey, I'm just, I'm looking for a job and you look like, you know, you're trying to hire somebody, so maybe, maybe I'll make that fit.

Yeah.

So I think that's a huge benefit in mindset when, if, if you have the luxury of someone approaching you that wants to work for your, for your business and I, I would not ig those things. I think that's a, that's a big deal.

It is a big deal. I've had that happen before where somebody says, oh wait, tell me about your business. Oh, I would, I would fit in well there. Or I, I think I could bring something to the table. I want to work there. Right. For some reason they, they say that and I've had that. I've had it going both directions to be perfectly honest. I, and I've let my share of Rockstar employees slide by without hiring them. And I've also hired a few over time in this sort of don't need them, but am gonna bring them on anyway because I think that they will help the business regardless. Right. But to me, the part that I think is worth digging into, because I've learned about it the hard way, is ask how you think this might change your corporate culture, because clearly you've got something which works. And bringing in a rock star, especially if you have some people that in your mind are not rock stars. And I'm saying that intentionally because may be rock stars like you don't. You might.

You may not know.

You may not know, or you may have gotten used to them. Right. And so now they seem okay. Okay. But if you do that, and especially your perspective as the business owner is, look, I'm bringing in this person that's better than everybody here. You will. This will change your company's culture.

And I don't think you can say that. I don't. You don't know if they're better.

That's. That's the thing. Right. And the question is, will it change your culture in a good way? And I really feel like a lot of this is up to you, the business owner, because I've. I've failed at this in the past. How will you manage this inevitable change to your culture? Right. Except that it will happen because in a company where you've got five people, you, plus four employees bringing in one other person, that's a significant chunk of your company that has just changed. So of course the culture is going to be impacted by that person. That's normal. You have to manage this change. So if you let the change happen organically by giving this new rock star room to be themselves, then it'll either inspire your staff and then your rock star becomes a manager sort of by default. Right. Or it'll sour the entire culture and then your rock star becomes a cancer. Right. And my experience is that the latter, the cancer is far more likely to happen than the former. And it can take a lot of time for your company to recover from that. So letting it happen organically is very tempting, especially when you've got somebody that you feel knows more than you about what you want them to do at your business, which is great. Like that you're wise as a manager or you know, a business owner to hire people that know more than you. That's smart. You definitely want to hire a people, and that means that they're going to bring in skills that you don't have, but you need. You do need to manage them. Even though they know more than you about a certain thing. Right. You know more than them about your current business. And the culture of your business. So you have to be really careful. So I think you need to manage this with a pretty steady hand. Not too heavy a hand, but a pretty steady hand. Make it clear to the rock star that your corporate culture is the most important thing. I think that's a good place to start. And you just know how well their skills are gonna fit into your world. But then you have to keep an eye on it because if your rock star gets frustrated by not having the latitude to do what they know is right, that can become cancerous too. So it's a really tough balance. But this is the part that, that I think makes or breaks this. And no great surprise, it's up to you. It's your fault if they succeed or fail, not theirs.

Yeah, I, I agree wholeheartedly. And I think that you also have to watch. There's a, there's a little trap here. I think if you think this person is the rock star, you may. And I think I've seen this and I think I've done it too. Treat them differently than you would. Maybe your, these other employees, because you have this mindset, your bias is that, oh, this person is just awesome, you know, and they're a rock star, so they're going to do things different and your expectations start to be different. And maybe you treat them differently as well. And your other employees can, believe me, they will pick up on, they'll know right away. Right away, of course. And so, you know, I really like this concept of that you mentioned organically letting it happen, Dave. But my take on is a little different is if, if you find this person that you think is good. Well, you know, unless you're hiring like, oh, we need a new VP of sales or we need a new, you know, head of marketing, that's different. And you tell your people, oh, we're hiring a marketing person, da da, da da. They're not going to be your boss or they're not going to. That's, that's different. But if, if you're bringing in someone that you think is going to replace someone, eventually do these kinds of things, maybe you can find a different way to bring them in. The sense of, hey, okay, this is great, I think you could do it. But you like Mr. X said, they have to prove themselves. So maybe you need to bring them in as a trainee, if you will, and see how they do in a lower level position. Because I would argue that the people you're not going to have problems in your culture are the ones that don't care what, what they do. Right, that. Oh, sure. I'll start if you're, you're in whatever business you're in, I'll start here at the bottom. Because I want to work, I want to learn about all these aspects of the business and the best way for me to learn about them is to be involved and do this job for a little while. Right?

Yeah.

Even if, even if you're eventually like, hey man, you could take over this company someday, great. But if they're not willing to get in the trenches and do the work, I would say that that's a, that could be a, a problem. So there's some different ways to do it. I mean, we used to have a terrific intern program. Now if you have a, you know, maybe it may not have to be a younger person that your, your rock star may be.

Yep.

But if you come in, you could say, hey, we have this like, we had a hundred hour intern program where somebody came in and worked. It was a part time, you know, thing because they were mostly college students. But maybe you can integrate them into some sort of trainee, some sort of intern thing, number one. Just to see if they'll do it and see what their attitude is about it. Because if they think they're a rock star and that they're better than doing some of this low level stuff again, I would say you, you need to be a little weary.

Yeah, yeah. Just to be clear, I don't think the organic let it happen approach is the right one. I, it, I know it's tempting because you want to give these people the freedom to be themselves, but you don't want to do that on day one. Like. No, I think that's, I like your idea of, you know, finding some way of having that heavy or steady hand, I guess, on, on, on things and bringing them in and, and putting them in a box. Even if it's not the box that they're going to stay in forever and forever.

Right.

You can tell them this is not the box you're going to stay in forever.

Oh, absolutely. You can have a plan. But you could also, I really think, especially a small business, four or five employees getting buy in from other people is really important. If you want them to work closely with this person who you think is eventually going to have an important role asking them to, to interview this person. How about asking them, hey, how do you feel if I, this guy, if you trained him, if you taught him.

Yeah, training, do that's a great idea.

And work with him because then you're also going to really get some insight into how this person works. Because if you're coming into a new organization as well to prove yourself, I think you, you need to think about how you're going to add value to each other role within the company. Right. Each employee. How am I going to act? Because you're trying to get these people on your side. Right. You're trying to persuade them that, hey, I'm here to help the business, which is going to help you, so teach me everything about your job and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah.

You know, and, and that way, I think if you, if you kind of shift it, then you're not thinking this, oh, this person's a rock star. They're going to come in and solve these problems. Well, your employees pick up on that quickly. And I've done that. I've hired a sales manager that I thought was going to take us to another place, and he made some comments to the press that not only alienated a huge chunk of our customers, but alienated every other single person that works for me. And, you know, this guy didn't last very long. And I had to, you know, step in and say, wow, I made a mistake. And we promoted someone from within because it, I realized it was a better, better use of talent.

But you might have been able, like, handling that differently, bringing that person in. You might have been able to make that person into the employee. You thought, I don't know this person, But I know that I could have done things differently with a few hires that I've made where it's like, oh, if I had brought them in the right way, they might have been able to be that person for us and not everybody. I always say the first issue with an employee is my fault. Right. Because I wasn't managing them correctly. The second issue with an employee, well, it doesn't really matter whose fault it is. They got to go, like, if it's not working, it's not where, you know, and maybe it's still me. Well, that's fine, but I'm not going to leave the company. So they have to. Right. Like that. I think that's kind of how that goes for me.

Yeah. That concept. I would always tell our managers, too. I say, well, when you have to fire somebody, it's our fault. We either hired the wrong person or we didn't manage and manage them correctly.

That's right.

But that's okay. You still need to fire them and get. Try to get somebody else.

That's it. Yeah.

They still going to go stop you. Yeah.

It's still going to go. Yes. Okay. Is it your fault for this? Yes.

Yeah, do it. You know, but you know, for this concept, I think that again, this exercise is great. Laying out the pros and the cons, getting some outside, you know, opinions on things. Some, some folks like us that have, that have done this thing before and I really love your concept of, of focusing on protecting your culture. I, I think it's okay for people to feel intimidated, but not if it's. They're intimidated by somebody that's only worked there for a month.

Yeah, right, right. It's.

It needs to happen over time to where someone has proven, you know, we hired Bob because we think Bob's going to be a good addition to the organization. How did it go when you worked with Bob for a week, two weeks, a month, two months to so he could learn about your position and you know, is. Did Bob come out? Bob's just a jerk, you know, and he doesn't want to listen and he's trying to change everything I do. That's not a good there. That is a recipe for disaster. Because if you want to, you know, move Bob up to where he's eventually going to be the boss or a manager or something, those people have to respect him or her. And, and so they need to earn that trust and they need. And maybe that's the question you could ask them is, look, I want you to think about how you would add value to each of my employees positions right now. Ooh, right. How would you add value? And so maybe they don't get to, to move up in the ranks until they come back in and say, you know, what, you know, Jane and receiving or in accounting or whatever. She needs me more resources. She's using a computer that's five years old and she's having to do these workarounds or that, you know, the, the racks in the warehouse are set up incorrectly. I've noticed that everybody's stretching doesn't have the right this. So if you can get that person to be seen as adding value to each of these roles, they will naturally, inorganically embrace this person that wow, this person really does want to make our job better. Not just come in and tell us what to do because it's different. Right. So I, I would look for that value add. How would you add value to each of these, you know, employees? Because, you know, and I like this because you're talking about the, you know, Mr. X is loyal to his existing employees, whether they're rock stars or not. They've been with him for a while and you need to look at that and see how we can make them job, their job better because maybe then they can become a rock star. You just don't know.

Yeah. You just don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta, you gotta keep, keep your hand on the, on the keel there, you know, make sure you don't, you don't lose sight of what's going on. I think that's. Yeah, that's the key.

But that's. It's a great question. Love talking about this stuff. Feedbackusshow co if you need some business, small business therapy, we'd love to discuss your, your topic and we appreciate you listening to us again this week.

Yeah, Dave, as you saw, we're happy to keep you anonymous and all of that stuff and protect the innocent people that are involved that, you know, we're here to help, we're not here to hurt. So feedback business, show for sure. That's what I got, man. You got anything else?

No, I think it's good stuff. Great topic again. Happy anniversary. Great six years. I look forward to the next as we move on into better, even better things.

Keep living the dream, folks. Keep living that charmed life and keep listening to the show. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.