Transparency for Fun and Profit

The Small business show episode 375 for Wednesday, April 13, 2022. Greetings folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co, the place where we are small business seeing every week. Sponsors for this episode include shopify@shopify.com SBS where you can get your 14 day free trial with full access to all their features and everything. We'll talk more about that in a few minutes in the middle of the show here. For now, here in Durham, New Hampshire, I'm Dave Hamilton.

And in Lafayette, California, I'm Shannon Jean. How goes it out there, man?

Oh, it goes. You know, it goes. I have a thing that I've been thinking about.

Okay.

I was in the car with a friend last week. Doesn't matter. Prior to this moment, which is sort of how temporal, you know, the, the linear time works and because I don't have experiences for the future quite yet. But I, he was, you know, I was telling him about my podcast that I do and, and I mentioned this one. He's like, well, I don't know about that one. And I like, oh yeah. He's like, well, I want to listen to that. Like, great. It's called the Small Business show. And it took all of about three minutes, which is a long time for him to find our small business show. Okay, so there was that. And then I started thinking, what is this? And I'm sure that thought catalyzed my next one, but it wasn't immediate that I started thinking about this. It was like shower inspiration. I started thinking, is our show about small business? Or more specifically, is our show about the path, the long path to overnight success? Right. Because. And then I started thinking, well, we say, you know, overnight success takes 20 years. So is there a. First of all, the question is, is there a better name for our show? For a variety of reasons. A one that's more specifically descriptive. We are the small business show. That's not incorrect. But we could be. The riches are in the niches. Right. So we could be more specifically descriptive. And then I, and so I was riffing on this idea of, you know, the, the 20 year overnight success. Right. Like, is that a good name for a show? I actually went and bought a domain just because I. That's, you know, it's how I am.

Oh, I do that all the time.

Right, right. So I bought 20 years overnight.com, both with 20 and with the word 20. We don't have to use that. That, that's just my way of processing and doing things. But I, I Don't know. I, like, I. I think there is a better name for this show. I don't know what it is. Yeah, I may have stumbled onto it. I may not have. I don't know. You know, but I, I. Yeah, well.

When we started, we. We called it the Small Business Podcast, right?

No, we called it dba.

Oh, dba. That's right.

No, but it was dba, the Small Business Podcast.

Yes, the Small Business Podcast. Yeah. DBA Doing Business as, Right, that's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I thought that was kind of catchy. But, yeah, I'm. I'm definitely open it. Open to. To new things and new ideas. And I do agree with you 100% that it's a pretty broad name.

And there's like, 15 small business show podcasts.

Yes, there is.

Yes. Yeah.

And. And I also think a lot of the techniques, tips and tactics, three T's, they are, you know, good in your life and not just your small business.

Yes, I agree with you. That's right. A lot of the stuff that we talk about certainly helps us in our businesses and has helped us, which is part of why we share it. But it is like life hacks as well as a life hack. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So.

But it is all about the grind. Like, it's not instant success, right?

No, no, we never say that. No, no. We always focus on the long term and, you know. Right. Like I said, we were talking about for the show, writing your story, deciding what that is. We working that backwards. I definitely think about this.

Yeah.

I do want to think about it, because I'm open to it. I think it's something new and exciting. We just have to see how. Because we're coming up on our 400th show.

It's true. 25 shows to go, so half a year. We got six months before we get.

There, so it could be that. Definitely time for a change. We keep changing new things. I mean, we're doing a lot of great things. We've got tons of new members in the small business support group.

Yep.

Each week now and trying to build up that experience. Tons of new followers on LinkedIn that are listening to the mini shows. The mini episodes are really popular. You know, five minutes here, whatever it is. So, yeah, I'm definitely open to it. I don't have a brainstorm concept in my head right now.

Yeah.

But I think we should.

Yeah, no, I just. I wanted to start the process. I didn't expect us to, like to, you know, solidify anything here by any stretch, but I think it's I think we need to evolve the name of the show to brand it to the people that. That would not understand what it's about based just on the name. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think that's a great idea.

So I know we're going to talk about transparency today. Shannon. I have an experience that is either going well, it is a. A teachable moment. It is a tuitionable moment. We always say that, you know, mistakes are our. We consider mistakes or our tuition, because it's how we learn, and it's also how we justify paying for them. So we're doing a project. Several projects in our. In, outside our house right now. The main ones that are relevant to this story that we're putting in a propane generator, like a full house generator.

Nice.

And we're putting in a patio. We realized we have to dig a trench to get from where our propane tanks are to where the generator is. And that trench's easy path will go under where our patio is. So I decided, well, if I know that there's going to be propane under my patio, I'm definitely putting in a fire pit, Right? So, like, all this stuff is happening, but coordinating the timing on everything is a trick. And my wife has been the master conductor of all of this stuff. And really, it's been amazing. We had the guy here yesterday doing the trench. Okay, great. So. And there's lots of boulders to move. You know, he's doing this thing. He told us it was gonna cost 1400 bucks, which it did, and it's totally fine. So he. This is relevant to the story. He's about halfway through with this thing, and he comes and gets me and says, yeah, I. Cause my wife wasn't home. He says, I hit a line to the generator that was underground. I'm like, ah, there's no lines to the generator underground, man, but let's go take a look. So he didn't hit a line to the generator, but he did hit a line. It was a piece of conduit that held the electrical lines to our air conditioner unit. You know, the part that sits outside?

I see. And I'm like, okay, you guys, do you have call before you dig out there?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yep, we do.

I want to check with that.

He didn't. Yeah. Call before you dig is a service that will come and tell you what you're about to dig through. If you're going to do this. One would assume that most people who are in the business of digging trenches would call before they dig. Because otherwise that number on speed dial. Yeah. They run into these problems. So he's like, yeah, I just didn't think we were going to run into anything. I'm like, okay, well, this one, I mean, this. I'm going to need an electrician out to, like, redeal with this. But it's not the end of the world. Fine. You know, bad that it happened, but whatever, we move forward. And I said, okay, but, you know, without having cold call before, you dig, you know where my septic line is, right? Yeah, yeah. It's not going to be a problem. Okay. It's right there. Just so you know. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's going to be deep. It's not a problem. Like, okay, it's right there. Great. 20 minutes later, I get it. My wife is now home. I get a text from my wife. He hit the septic.

Oh, my God.

I'm like, okay. So I write her back, I'm like, does this mean that we have. That we cannot, like, run any water in the house? And I get a one word answer from her. Correct. Okay.

Oh, right. That's brutal.

Yep.

That's transparent.

Oh, yeah. Well, and. And, and she said he was super apologetic, accepted blame, you know, said, look, let me know what it's going to cost if, you know, if I have to file it through my insurance, I will. All of this good stuff. Okay, so fine, call the septic people. My wife did. They were here in 30 minutes. Right.

That's impressive.

Emergency service. They were here. These guys showed up. They couldn't have been more relaxed, more cordial. They're the people that pump our septic every couple years when you're supposed to have that done. But they were like, super chill. And they were like, oh, yeah, it's no problem, you know, and they'd look at it and they're like, oh, this is actually the, like, best case scenario for you. I'm like, okay, awesome. They were here 20 minutes and fixed it. Wow. As the guys were leaving, I asked him, I said, well, I know we're paying an emergency service fee and all that stuff. Just out of curiosity, what's the price? 1,500. Okay, fine. Like, whatever, I need a septic. Like, you know, pretty reasonable how it goes. Okay, great, thank you. Like, still thanking them, like, okay, great. So my wife calls the trench digger who wanted to know what the price was going to be. And she tells him 1500. And she hears him talk like, you know, kind of calculating and thinking out loud under his breath. And one of the things he said is, wow, wow, geez, man, I gotta make some money for today. Okay, how about I give you 400 bucks?

Oh, you can see my face right now.

I don't understand what. I need to have this conversation with him face to face, because I just need to say, and then to get the electrical thing fixed is going to be another three or four hundred bucks all in, because that's how these things go.

He's not going to make any money on this job. That's just the way it works.

He's going to be upside down on it. Right? Yeah. And. But I, like, I don't understand how the amount that he's, like, who's supposed to pick up the slack? Then the implication is we are right. Like, me and, me and my wife are supposed to pick up the slack on this. So I just want to have the conversation with him face to face and say it out loud. Like, okay, are you saying that there's a mistake that was made here? You made the mistakes, and you should.

Pay the lion's share of that, and.

I'm paying for these. Like, I don't. Is that what we're saying? Because if it is, like, if he came to us and said, look, things have been tough, you know, whatever, I will work with him. And, you know, we know we're doing this project, It's a fairly sizable project. We know that there are going to be surprises that cost us more than we predicted. It's just how these things go. If we wind up paying for this in the end, it's going to be okay. Like, I'm not going to be bitter about it, but I'm just flabbergasted that someone's mentality would be, well, I still got to make money on this.

Well, from a. From thinking about it from a business standpoint, you know, that is just one of the worst ways to handle a problem. You know, you're not going to. We always talk about getting the customer on your side is the first thing. Right. Whatever you say, phrasing how you do it. Two tokens. That's certainly, you know, he grabbed the wrong token.

He grabbed. Yeah, right. He grabbed. He should be like, oh, my God, this is terrible. Can I bring a check over now?

Like, let me figure it out. Or even, like, to your point, if he didn't have the money, he. That's a different conversation if he says.

Wow, but that's okay.

I'm going to have to figure this out with you. I don't have the cash or the. Things have been so Tight. But I. But I. The first thing I want you to know is I'm going to make this right.

Yeah.

I mean, that's what he should have said. Then you would have been like, oh, okay, we're going to get it figured out. Even if the guy paid you 100 bucks a month for 15 months, you got what I mean.

Yeah.

And so that's what he's missing. There is. There is a way to salvage it, no matter what. And if you panic and just revert to this kind of. How about, you know, 400 bucks? How about you pay the bulk of it and I pay, you know, some token.

Yeah.

20%? I mean, that doesn't make. That doesn't endear you to your customers.

No, it does not endear me. So it was an interesting. It's what's happening, and we talk about our lives here on the show, but I also thought with our upcoming topic here in a couple minutes on transparency, I thought this would be an interesting thing to share. I'm really curious to see how this evolves. This guy was brought into the project by the. The guy who's actually building our patio. And so what I. What I do know is that when he screwed up the first thing, when he hit the, you know, the electrical line, the patio guy was, like, materialized here very, very quickly and was aware and, like, you know, very concerned about this. So even if we wind up eating this 1500 bucks for the thing, as long as the guy building the patio knows that we have. He's gonna go above and beyond for us on this patio. He's not going to cut any corner. You know, he's. He's gonna. Yeah, he's gonna, like, if. If there's one bad thing that happened, it's only that, and everything else is going to be so good that we forget about it. And so, like, there is an angle to play here that does. That does not include the irate customer. Right.

Like, oh, yeah, no, you don't get anything done that way.

No.

Because then they don't want to work.

Then they don't want to work for me.

Motivated to do it. Right.

Correct.

I agree 100%.

So, you know, if an extra 1500 bucks on this project is the key to unlocking the best work this guy does all summer, you know what, that, you know, in the end, that's probably actually worth it. But, you know, hopefully they don't listen to this episode before I have the conversation with them. Yeah.

Hey, one quick thing. You know, the best way to get people to find the Small business show. At least an Apple podcast is just have them search for your name.

Yes.

You know, I always tell people, search for Shannon Jean. It comes up quickly. Search for Dave Hamilton, you know, that kind of thing.

No, you're totally right. That's finally, that's how I had John find it. Yeah, exactly.

I do. Yeah. So we're going to, we'll revisit that naming topic and come up with something awesome.

Yeah, yeah. Before we get to the transparency thing, the next thing that I want to do well is this because that sound makes me smile. That is the sound of another sale on Shopify, the all in one commerce platform to run, start and grow your business. And so Shopify is this platform that's designed for anyone to sell anywhere. Giving people who are small businessing like you and me the resources once reserved for big business. All customized for our needs. With a great looking online store that can bring your ideas to life and tools that let you manage your day to day and drive sales. Making your idea real opens endless possibilities. And it's a journey. Right? Like that's how small businessing is. But that's the beauty of exactly what we do and why we do it. And Shannon, you and me, we have both used Shopify in the past. It's a fantastic platform. They really, they've, they've solved all of the problems that we would need to solve and just let us do the things that we need to do. And that's why in addition to us, Shannon, Shopify powers millions of entrepreneurs from first sale to full scale. Every 28 seconds, a small business owner makes their first sale on Shopify. So you can get started by building and customizing your online store. You don't need any coding or design experience. You get to access powerful tools to help you find customers, drive sales and manage your day to day. Plus 24. 7 support. Which means you're never alone. So you're going to go to shopify.comsbs that's all lowercase for a free 14 day trial to get full access to Shopify's entire suite of features. Start selling on Shopify today. Go to shopify.com SBS right now. Shopify.com SBS and our thanks to Shopify for sponsoring this episode. And now Shannon, it is time to talk more about transparency and how we can apply it to our businesses.

Yeah, I think it's a fascinating topic and I will be transparent. I often struggle with it because I'm like a defiant optimist and sometimes it kinds of bites me in the butt because I Don't like to talk about problems, and I have to force myself to be more transparent about it. So I'm going to get some business therapy with this topic today, too.

Yeah, no, you're not alone. I am the same way. I. I avoid talking about problems at times when it's like I'll just will my way through this. Right. You know, and even if you're going to will your way through it, acknowledging the problem, especially when there's other people involved, is key.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. Because for myself, I just power through it and keep focusing and grind it out, and I always overcome them. But when you have other people around you, that doesn't work as well. So we're going to discuss that today and talk about how transparency really should be part of your company culture as it relates to some different demographics. Your customers, your employees, your suppliers, and your partners and advisors, they all benefit, and you ultimately would benefit, but they all benefit from transparency. And in some ways, they just won't exist without having that transparency. And I think the first place to start is with your employees because without a really good team of people that trust you and that you have credibility with, you got nothing going to work.

Right? Yeah, no, yeah. Transparency builds trust. I mean, you know, my example earlier is it would be a key for that. Like the fact that the guy told us that he. He broke the electric and the septic. Like, I mean, there's that, you know, and he. He at least morally owned up to it.

That's nice. Yeah, honest. That's nice.

Which is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the thing I realized as I was putting together my notes is that, you know, creating this transparent culture that's built on honesty, accountability, you know, respect, all that stuff, it's one of the most valuable benefits that you can give to your employees, and it costs you nothing. There's no.

Interesting.

Yeah, there's no cost associated with it. It's a mindset that allows you to do all kinds of things that you. You wouldn't be able to do if you don't have it. And so in kind of my earlier comment, being transparent, like, about your. The strengths and weaknesses of your company, it really makes you a more credible leader and people will follow you. Right. Because they know this guy's not just BSing us and how great everything's going to be and things are going to be hard. And when you talk about those weaknesses, it helps focus people on how they can fix. So it's just a natural thing well, let me tell you where we're, what we're good at, but I'll also talk about areas that we really need to work on. And you just. Most people just nat, I just snapped my fingers there. Most people just snap like, boom, oh, I'm going to start thinking about how I can help solve this problem. Because everybody wants to help, right?

Yeah. As soon as you tell someone you have a problem, our natural inclination as humans, other than the sociopaths out there, and bless your heart, you folks, like, in many ways, you have it easier. You just get to plow through and you don't worry about anybody else.

That or you're a politician.

So, you know, is there a difference? I think that's potato, potato. No, no, no. But I mean, but like, you know, most people, when they hear someone say, I need help, or I am not good at this, or, you know, that little bit of humility opens a door that actually lets people help you. Right. If you. If you act like, oh, I don't need help, I can do it all on my own, people will believe you.

Like, you know, they see the vulnerability. Right. And they want to. Most people want to help, especially your employees, too.

Yes.

And so you become a different kind of leader.

Of course, I can't remember.

I can't remember the guy's name, but I heard him at a PayPal event. The guy's on CNBC on the profit. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Yeah, but one of his. His lessons was that the most important thing in business is vulnerability, and that's how you make the connection and get people to follow you and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, everybody wants to be part of something good, right?

Yes, we all do.

You're working, and you can make it something bigger. You know, we used to say, tech restore, you know, hey, we're changing the world one repair at a time. And people kind of make fun of me when I say that. And I said, no, let me tell you some experiences that these students have and parents that can't afford and this and that, you could just kind of extrapolate it out. But all of us want to be part of something good. And being transparent is a great way to get there. And talking about your strengths and weaknesses, you know, I think it's just a great thing to have. You know, another big part of being transparency, I think transparent is managing expectations. And I've made this mistake many, many times. I talk in these big, you know, we're going to do this and we're going to do that. And in my mind it's like, well, yeah, we're sure we want to do this, we want to do that. But in reality, there's some. One of your employees is in the corner writing it down. Oh, you know, Shannon said, we're going to do this. So you need to be careful. And it's part of being transparent is don't say things that may not happen because your employees, they really have long memories. You could say, we would like to do this, and if we hit some benchmarks, we can do this. Just make sure you follow through and be transparent about the unknowns, about man we're going to have. This is going to be really hard. You need to tell them that.

I will caution you to look for the red flag of the employee who, a year down the road, two years down the road will say, well, you said. And they won't put a timeframe on it. And it's not a tactic generally, it is how their brains work. I've encountered people like this. I've had business partners like this that'll say, and I've had somebody like 10 years later say, well, you told me once that you would never do things that way or you don't do things that way. We'll take the word never out of it. You told me you don't do things that way. It's like, well, things change. And so my caution is look for those red flags of someone that is incapable of or. Or has a difficulty processing change. We all do, right? Like, we're all change resistant. That's normal. But if you've got somebody that just hangs on to, oh, we can't do this new thing, because weeks, months, years ago, you said, we don't do it that way. Be aware of that because that can become a boat anchor on your business. If you've got somebody internal, that's, that's. Even if you're being transparent with them, like, it's. It's not always your fault.

What do you do about it? What do you do about that?

You've got to let him know I've.

Had that kind of.

Yeah, you got to let him know.

In every business I've had at some point.

At some point, yeah. I mean, if it happens once, you know, the first time it happens, I explained to him, well, things change. And I don't, I don't hang on to, you know, ideals from, you know, or things that worked in the past, almost certainly won't work in the future. And I will tell them, look, that is one change that from Whenever then was months, weeks, years ago, that change will happen because of different circumstances. And what we are doing now will also change as time marches on. And if they have trouble with that, I've found I don't have a way of successfully dealing with them other than being totally dismissive, which is generally how I wind up dealing with those people. And I know that's the wrong thing to do, by the way, but it, at some point, it's like, okay, well, you know, you keep doing this, I'm going to stop acknowledging you. And that's, you know, I mean, yeah.

You got to get this person out of there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

I would agree with that.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Yeah.

Well, the, I think the other part that we often overlook as business owners is, is that when you have this transparent culture and your employees feel good about it, they treat your customers better.

Right.

And, and that their engagements are usually more positive because they really like where they work and they believe in it and they know that you're honest, that you're not, you know, that people aren't getting taken advantage of or whatever it is. But, and that drives growth and profits because you just, you're all kind of, you know, leaning into this together and headed in the same, um, you know, really works. You want people to feel like that. Um, and then lastly, on the employee front, this is where I've made, I made some missteps as well, is having a clear, transparent path, you know, a career development, how to advance, how to make more money, how, how, how you increase your salary here. So they know what that path is. It removes uncertainty and it gives them a direction to focus on. But of course, if you say you're going to do, you have to follow through with it. If you tell them, look, if we meet these goals or this benchmark, then you got to, you have to reward them.

But I don't want to derail this episode any more than I already have, but I, but I will, I wanted, I'm putting that particular concept on our list to expand and probably turn into a segment because I, I, I certainly want to get better at that, and I know our listeners do too. So I, I, let's talk through that more in depth at some point.

We've, we've tested before, a little bit before, but it could certainly deserve a deeper dive. All this stuff is, oh, yeah, and.

Hey, if you folks hear us say, I mean, I have the benefit when it's, you know, a topic that Shannon is leading, I have the benefit of being listener Zero. Right. And so I get to say, hey, let's, let's, you know, do that another time if you're listening. You don't have to be listener zero to do that. This is a privilege afforded to every single listener, not just me and not just Shannon. You get to do this, too. Feedbackusinessshow.co Let us know if there's something you want us to talk more about. We will do it. Yeah.

Or correct us.

Yeah, well, that too.

Another take on it that's really important. We've been getting some great emails lately.

Yeah.

Okay. So we talked about customers. I'm sorry, we talked about employees. Let's talk about customers.

Right.

That's the other side. Sure. You know, customers, they want to interact with honest companies that they know they can rely on. Right. And now especially seems like more these days, they want to deal with companies they like, believe in, you know, and, and while I'm not fully on board with this whole, I think a lot of it's performative and virtue signaling with some companies, how good we are kind of stuff in general. People do want to work with companies that they believe in.

Yeah.

And I think your policies towards those customers need to be transparent. And I can't reiterate this enough. They need to be short. If you bury yourself, you think you're going to protect yourself with this, you know, 10 page terms and conditions, you got another thing coming. If, if you're defending your actions all the time and using your terms and conditions as a shield, you've lost already. That's a bad sign. Yeah, yeah, you've lost already. So keep those policies really short and open. That's how you gain the trust of, of potential customers. Right.

Yep.

Something I was reading a lot about as I was prepping for the show was, you know, upfront and transparent, but pricing and talk about, you know, not, not breaking everything down. Like, you know, there's this, there's an ala carte where you can add on certain things. But, you know, sometimes it gets crazy. Right. Where you think and they advertise, oh, that's only, you know, 89. And then by the time you're done getting it to where it actually would work, you've spent $200. Right.

We have a phrase in my house which spills very much over into business, which is one number. What I want from you is one number. Right.

Parent tip.

Yeah, Well, I want one number. You know, when it's like, oh, it's going to be this and this and this and. And it's, you know, one Number. I don't want the nickel and diming. Yeah. They're.

Well, and at your kids or whatever. That's how I'm thinking of this. They lead you down the road. Oh, it's only this, dad.

Yeah.

Oh, and by the way, and I have to do this. Oh, and I need to buy a pair of shoes because I have to wear this, you know, that kind of stuff.

We never. Well, our kids never had the opportunity to, to play that game because they learned the one number concept early on, you know.

Brilliant.

Right? Like it's. I want one when we're going on vacation, you know. Oh, we're like, you know, when we did cruises when we were, when the kids were younger, it was like, okay, I want one number. You know, and, and we'd add it.

All up tactic right there.

Yeah. We'd add it all up and it's like, okay, we've added all their a la carte things. Now here's the number. Let's look at that. Not the, the, you know, the number. That's 60% of that that they use to advertise. I want that from the frigging airlines too. Right.

They should do the same thing. Yeah, you should do the same thing with your customer.

Yeah. One number. Yeah.

Yep. The other part of transparency with your customers, I think is important, is not promising what you can't do. Being really clear and transparent at what you can and can't do for people. Right. That helps to. It really helps to avoid all kinds of problems and, and managing expectations of your customers. Just like you want to do it, you know, to your employees. I mean, your business can't be all things to all people. Right. You'll never success, you'll never make it. We always talk about the riches are in the niches. You need to focus on a specific customer base that you can service and whatever products and services that you can offer and be the best at. You cannot, you know, can't make promises. Lastly, when you make a mistake, you know, we Talk about the 2Tokens concept. Go look it up at businessshow co. You need to admit it and focus on solving the problem for the customer. Even if it seems like a massive disaster, you need to get it across to them quickly. Hey, we're going to make this right. You know, I don't know how we're going to solve it yet, but the first thing you need to know is we stand behind everything we've done, yada, yada. They want to have their problem solved quickly and they, and they don't want to be hassled through it. And if you can do that, those are your best customers. They are the most loyal customer. They will tell everybody about. It's. I don't know, there's some. I've seen a number of studies that a customer that had a problem that was solved quickly, it becomes just far more loyal than just a customer that bought something and everything worked out.

I was talking to a friend of mine who actually was part of a new chain of cannabis dispensaries down in Massachusetts that opened their first store during pandemic. And I was talking to him and he said he was talking about some customer that he had had a run in with. And then it turned around and I said, man, I found that a conflict, if resolved, can be the shortcut to trust.

I like that.

Right. Because it is, you know, you want to be careful not to rely on that too much. And certainly you don't want to employ it as a tactic because, yeah, that will. That will almost certainly backfire, but it will happen that you will find yourself in conflicts with your customers, with your employees. These things happen. And if you can work it out, man, now you know, you'll trust each other for the rest of your lives. It's great. Yeah.

And I'll take that another direction. I'm going to talk about suppliers and transparency. And one of my comments on my suppliers section of my notes here is when a supplier makes a mistake, there's your opportunity to really cement a relationship with them. And like, if they ship you extra stuff, the best thing you could ever do to make more money with this supplier over the long haul is to call them and tell them that you got this extra shipment or the numbers weren't right. We talked about building trust.

We count our cash at the end of every gig. You know, I'm a drummer and I make it a policy. And my policy is count it in front of the person that gave it to you. Right. Because that way if it's short, you didn't leave and pocket 20 bucks or, you know, whatever. Right. There was one night where one of the guys in the band went and got paid while we were packing up the rest of the stuff. And he came back and he's like, ah, I got the money. I'm like, great. Did you count it with Jim? And this is a. The club is a place that I had played with different bands for years, but I think it was the first time with this particular band. And he's like, no. And I'm like, count it, please. He's like, yeah, he counts it. And he's like, hang on. And he counts it again. I think we were supposed to get, I don't know, 500 bucks. And there was 520. And I'm like, are you sure? He's like, yeah. I'm like, go back, find Jim and give it back to him. Give him the 20 bucks. And that guy to this day still talks about how we're the only band that ever gave him money back. It's like, yep.

Yeah, that's cool. Well, it's a powerful thing to do.

Look at what I got for $20.

Yes.

Right.

Really works.

Yeah.

Because, you know, suppliers that. And, you know, or people that hire you, they want to work with reliable companies.

Right.

And that are accountable and they know they can, that are going to follow through. It is really a powerful way to cement those relationships. A couple more tips on suppliers, and then I have one. A few more. Just a couple of things on partners and stuff.

Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah.

You know, I got time.

Our listeners have time. You know, if you don't have time, hit the pause button and then come back when you do. It's totally fine. Yeah, no, this is great stuff. Yeah.

Suppliers, you know, you don't want to make. Just like your customers, you don't want to make promises that you can't deliver on.

Right.

And I mean, what I mean by that is don't say you're going to take a certain volume of product, for example, if you know you can't handle it.

Right. Yeah.

Don't try to make yourself look better. Don't ask for terms that you know you can't meet if you know you're going to struggle with net 30 terms, you're just better putting on a credit card and fighting the battle with your credit card company than your really important supplier. Right.

Yeah.

Always better to do that. And, and I firmly believe that you should start small, you know, with. With new suppliers. Just. Just do a little bit of business so they get. They learn who you are. Don't go in oftentimes. I had, you know, people that wanted to buy from us, that came in talking big. We're going to do this, we're going to do that. And I'd say, okay, well, let's just do some business and build the relationship. And sometimes the loudest talkers, the people that make the most promises won't pull the trigger and just even place a small order because they're just trying to convince you that they're so big and important you should give them A massive discount or something like that. So I always like to start small. Look, if I know we're going to have a, a $50,000 a month relationship, let me just spend $5,000, see how the process works. I'll pay your full price. I don't care. You know, let's start it. I'm not asking for discounts because you don't even know who I am. But let me get your product, look at it and we'll, you know, all this kind of stuff. So start small. Think of that turtle. And the hare is a tortoise and a hare.

Sure.

You know, story over the long run. Suppliers, they want, you know, a sure thing. They want, you know, customers that are just going to grow along with them and they can be great partners. And lastly, this section I added just as an afterthought, but the more I think about it, it may be the most important. You're going to need a ton of help with your business, you know, and.

If you don't think you do, listen to what Shannon said again. This time use the rewind 30 seconds button. Then listen to that again. You are going to need help with your business.

Yeah, tons. You know, bankers, accountants, lawyers, you know, other advisors, insurance people. I mean, all this kind of stuff, real estate people, they're all, you're going to have this. As your business grows, you're going to build this entire ecosystem around you. Yeah. And it's awesome, it's great. But good partners, the really quality ones and advisors, they're only going to be willing to help you if, if they really know who you are, they get a transparent picture of you personally and your business.

Right.

You really have to earn their trust. They, if you want to leverage those relationships and if they don't feel they can trust you, forget it. They're not going to refer you, they're not going to introduce you to other people that could help your business because it's their credibility that's on the line.

Yes, right. That's right.

That referral.

Yeah.

And you know, that's why that referral concept is so critically important, you know, in, in general with your, how good your business is doing. And, and the same thing with like business partners. If you're going to go into business with someone to really attract the best kind of partner, you need to be one of the best.

Right.

You need to hold yourself up and say, man, I'm, I'm super accountable. I'm going to make this work and all that kind of stuff. Use the working agreement to flush out the losers that just want to ride on your coattails, you know, look it up at businessshow co. You'll see how we.

I'll put a link in the show notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It really works. And all your partners should really have a clear and a constantly clear lens on what's going on with your business. And if, and if you're the operating partner or you have a couple of managing partners, if you feel like you can't tell your partner something, and I've been in this position and it sucks. You really. I always call it an intervention. If you can't tell your partner something or they are not telling you something, it's time for an intervention because it's just going to build into some nasty festering thing that can be very devastating.

I had a partnership and you can go back and deduce what you like. It was one that ended in a fiery lawsuit with someone who told it was a multi person partnership and they told all of us that we were being too honest. Oh, yeah.

Brutal.

Yeah. As soon as I heard that, it was like, wait a minute. Like, whoa, this is what is. What's going on here? And they were like, well, you know, sometimes things are better left unsaid. It's like not amongst business partners.

No way. No need to talk.

Yeah.

Related to business. For sure. For sure.

Yeah. Related to business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah, of course. Yes. Right. But that though, that's a fair. Yeah. You got to be able to talk things out. Like if, if you think I'm making a mistake, you need to. I need to be the first one you tell and that needs to be okay between us.

And no matter how uncomfortable it is.

Correct.

If you, it's just like a normal relationship. If you just keep swallowing it down or they do, boy, it's bad news.

It's really bad news.

Yeah. And you know, good partners, good advisors, whether it's like I said, your banker, whether it's an outside, you know, someone that you've hired to help you, these people that you're looking for, they've been down this road. They've seen this movie before. Right. They know small businesses. So if you come in thinking you're going to fast talk them and there's a lot of BS involved, they sniff that stuff out quickly.

Yeah.

Be up front and just like to your employees, explain what you're good at and talk about your weaknesses. You know, they want to help you. That's the whole reason to have the relationship. And don't overshadow or leave out what you're not good at, why you're, you know, reaching out to them in the first place.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

The whole concept.

So that's the whole. That's the whole point. Yeah, exactly.

That's my take at transparency. I wish I was better at it. And like I said, off when I. When I really break it down and read all these notes, it was. My defiant optimism has hurt my ability to be as transparent as I would like. And when I trace back on failures in my business career, even with, like, partners not. Well, I don't want to talk about that because the sales aren't good or whatever. I'm always a sales guy.

Yeah.

And I could. I just remember. And I remember having a partner pull me aside and go, hey, you know what? It's okay, man. You know, you have to tell me when things aren't going well.

Yeah.

And it's not a reflection on you personally. Well, maybe it is, but it might be.

I mean, you kind of have to be okay with that, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I would love to hear some more tips on transparency from you guys. Listening at home or at the office or in your car, wherever you're@feedbackusinessshow.co. or if you have a minute, come post in the small business support group@businessshow.co. facebook.

Yeah, absolutely. Good stuff. This was great. I like being transparent about transparency, and I endeavor to be even better about it. That's how it is, folks. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks for watching, for checking out our sponsor at shopify.com sbs and make sure to send us that email with the things you want us to go through. Feedback@businessshow.co. keep living that charmed life. See you next week.