Using Fear as a Compass
9 Mar 2022 · 38 min
Dave Hamilton and Shannon Gene discuss how fear can guide business decisions rather than paralyze them. They reference Tim Ferriss's approach to managing fear and explore how accountability helps entrepreneurs move through anxiety instead of avoiding it.
The Small business show episode 370 for Wednesday, March 9, 2022. Greetings, folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at Business show co, the show where we are small business ing every single week. Sponsors for this episode include a new sponsor, rate Tracker from skysale Solutions. They are your credit card processing rate watchdog. You're going to want to trust me, you're going to want to know about these people. You're going to want to meet these people. We'll tell you more about them a little bit later in the show. And also bambi@bambi.com small where you can schedule your free trial and learn how you can get your dedicated HR manager for just 99 bucks a month. Here, back here in Durham, New Hampshire.
I'm Dave Hamilton and still here in Lafayette, California. I'm Shannon. Gene. How's your trip, man?
Our trip was fantastic. Yeah, it was nice to go. International travel was actually quite smooth for us. Cool. Yeah. We didn't have any flight delays or anything like that, which a lot of people did. We went down for some concerts down there. So there were about, I don't know, let's say 5,000 people going. So, you know, so you hear, you hear stories about, oh, yeah, my flight was delayed by a day. You know, people. There was one flight out of Denver that was delayed because two people didn't want to wear masks on the flight.
Come on.
You would have thought, like, you knew this when you signed up, right? Yeah, you did. Like, there was no question about this. Like, yeah, I mean, I'm not a.
Fan of masks, but same on a plane. But you're going to go on a plane. That's the prerequisite.
You know, it's like, it's like, this is not a surprise to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And evidently there were people that were going to the concerts, so they were. They would have had to show vax status and, and recent test and all this stuff. So it was like, there's a lot of things you knew and yet this is the hill you chose to die on. I don't know. I am a very principled person. I say that I am patently unemployable and I definitely have my ways of doing things, but I've learned to choose which hills I want to die on. And that just seems like an odd one in that scenario for me. Like, it just doesn't. I don't know, the logic of it doesn't make sense. He booked the ticket. You knew. Yeah. Like, how is this a surprise? Where like, you must have planned for this. And then. Yeah, evidently, because of crew rest or whatever, by the time they, you know, dealt with these people and got them off the plane, they, they couldn't. That was it, you know, they, the crew couldn't fly because they were passed. Oh, yeah. Like, they were. They had to, they waited a day, which meant. And there were a lot of people on this plane out of Denver going, you know, probably 30% of the plane was going to this event in Cancun. And so they missed a night that they paid for at the resort. Thankfully, that plane was a day before the concert started, so they didn't miss any of the shows. But still, man, I know. Buy travel insurance, folks. That's my advice to you.
I tell everybody that too, especially. Yeah, for sure. I wish there was a way for us to buy because we have vacation rentals and we. To constantly tell people, hey, make sure you get travel insurance, because, you know, it's a significant investment. And we're not giving, like, we're not giving refunds for Covid anymore, you know?
Right.
We just, we're beyond that.
Yeah. Of course.
Can't do it this. And I keep telling my wife Renee, who runs that business for us, I said, you know, we should just be able to buy travel insurance for our guests because it's relatively inexpensive, you know, super 100 bucks. I mean, for a three, four, $5,000.
Yeah.
And, you know, I don't know yet, but I've been mentioning this more and more, Isaac. It's got to be a way for us. The, the we're. We, we're considered innkeepers because I don't want to be land. You don't want to be landlords in California. That's a bad thing.
Okay, so. All right.
We, we structured as that we're innkeepers. There's got to be a way for us as innkeepers to buy or just provide it. Hey, as part of the package.
Yeah. We're. We're taking out an insurance policy on your behalf.
Yes. And you don't. Because we, I just, just mark it up a couple hundred bucks.
Yeah, take the 100 bucks. Yeah, whatever.
As far as I know, we have yet to find a, a policy that would allow the, you know, the, the innkeeper, if you will.
Yeah.
To purchase it. So if anybody knows about one, I'd love to hear it.
Yeah. I, I, I, I'm trying to remember the name of the website that we went to, to review, like, to find travel insurance, essentially, you know, because there were a million different wanderwell was the name of the company we wound up going with. And that was the event referred us to them. They said, look, we recommend that you buy travel insurance because just like you, they're like, if you wind up with COVID two days before you come, you can't come. And also, we're not going to give you your money back. And we're telling you that before you make any purchase, we recommend travel insurance. Get whatever policy you want. But here's one that we've specked out for the event that hits most of the points that we think you, our customers, would want. Do your own research, you know, that kind of thing. But Square Mouth is the. Is the place that we went to. I don't think they are an insurance company. I think that's the place that. That just found us.
Aggregator.
Yeah, they're an aggregator. Exactly. Yeah. And I'm looking at it here just to make sure. Yeah, yeah. Squaremouth was the place that in the past I've gone and I think this time too, I did some research and it was like, you know what? This wander well is about the same price as everything else. And it's the place that the event recommended. So if there is a problem, they're not technically on the hook, but they're close enough to the hook where, you know, it's like, listen, I did exactly what you said. The provider didn't pay out. Now that's on you. Right? You know, and maybe it is on them, maybe it's not, but it's better than saying, I went somewhere else.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
That's great. That's interesting.
Yeah. So, but this is an interesting. Like if we take this and, and zoom out a little bit. This is an interesting thing for any business. Think about what your customers need in order to benefit from the core product and service that you sell. And. And maybe there's an, you know, a value add that. That or. Or a whole other line of your business that can be a profit center for you. In this case, probably not. You probably don't want to start your own travel insurance company. Right. But you might like if you were doing. If you had vacation rentals in all 50 states, it might be a great thing and say, look, we mandate travel insurance. We're our own carrier for it. Here's the things that we cover. It's an extra 250 bucks for the rental. And as everybody knows, the insurance is a risk reward game. So you just get to put that money, that's pure profit right up until you have to pay it Out. But who are you paying it out to? Yourself. Right.
Like, or you may. You may get, you know, referral income if you like, you know, like the concert that you went to. If they're pointing you to a website that.
Oh, I have no doubt they got a cut of the take there.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's. It's always a great thing. We're going to talk about pricing later in the show, but in a. A new concept for us, we're going to talk about decoy pricing, which I'm interested to learn more about, which is cool.
But this is interesting thinking about those things and either, like you said, offering at least a referral or maybe, like, I can't imagine that it is impossible for an insurance company to provide you with the service that you want for your business. You just need to find the right one.
I think you're right.
I just, like, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm a pretty good hack lawyer, and I can't think of a legal reason why you wouldn't be able to take out a policy on behalf of somebody else, especially in a very limited sense. Yeah.
It's an event, right?
It's an event.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, you probably have to carry liability coverage.
Sure. I mean, obviously my regular insurance would facilitate that. Yeah. As a writer on the.
Yeah, look, I have to look, that's the place. That's where I would start. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. See, doing the show is good for us.
Look at that. We figured it out. Like I always said, I always learn the most.
Yeah, yeah. It's true. It is our competition every week to see which one of us can come away with the most value out of the show. I will say over the seven years and happy anniversary again. Over the seven years we've been doing this, my businesses have increased in value for me and for our employees and for our partners in ways that I can directly attribute to lessons I've learned by doing this show. So I would agree.
I'm right in there with you.
Yeah. It's amazing. Definitely, folks, I hope the same is true for you. Feedbackbusinessshow.co. tell us what. And it doesn't have to be from this show, but tell us the things that you have learned that are of value to you and your business. We'd love to share those lessons. So. Feedbackusinessshow.com Absolutely.
So today we're also going to talk about, in addition to decoy pricing, we're going to talk about one of our favorite subjects. Fear.
Right. Yeah.
Yeah, but in a different way. We're going to put a different spin on. We're going to.
Yes, it's not going to be. Don't make fear based decisions. We have another thing to share with you. It's true. And it's. Speaking of sharing, I would love to take this opportunity and share more details about the two sponsors that I mentioned at the beginning of the episode. If that's okay with you, Shannon.
Yeah, let's do it. I'm interested to learn more.
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Yeah, because all of us have it. Right?
Yeah, it's a natural thing, right. I mean it protects us from being eaten by cats. Right. I mean it's there, it serves us well as long as it is serving us and not paralyzing us. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
And like we always, you know, there's a quote, famous quote on this show, you know that from one of our earliest guests, Brian Frist from Digistore where he commented about not don't make fear based decisions. And we've really taken that to heart. But today, and Dave, you brought this to my attention as a concept of using fear as a compass to point you in the right direction, which I think is really interesting.
Yeah, I love this. It was a Twitter thread that I came across, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, and I just loved this idea. This was just a series of business advice, and one of them was use fear as a compass. And, you know, in every situation, our response is to imagine the worst case scenario. And so we have to reframe fear and.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
It's, you know, it's. It's not about avoiding pain, it's about finding possibilities. Right. And. And so, you know, this woman, Sheila Gonzalez, on Twitter said, instead of dwelling in the pits of despair, understand that fear is a compass pointing you in the right direction whenever you face trepidation. And this is the part I love. Don't ask, what if I fail? Ask how can I find the potential? And I really like that. It was like, okay, wait, you know, and this, this is sort of. I have. And I think I learned this from you. Speaking of our conversation earlier in the episode where if I'm faced with a decision about, you know, should I take path A or path B, the path that my gut tells me is the hardest is often the right path to take. Right. It's. It's like afraid.
Yeah. I always say if you're afraid of it, you know, that may be a sign that success lies in that direction.
Success lies in that direction. Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's exactly this, is that using fear as a compass, if you're afraid of it for whatever reason, because it's too hard, because it's something new. Right. Like, you know, and I guess. I guess where I would dig in to this is to figure out what my, what my fear is based upon. Right? Like, is it. Is it because it's super dangerous and, you know, if I, If I leap off that cliff, I'm certain to die. Right? Like, okay, well, maybe there's a good reason for this fear, but sometimes it's just, well, it's. It's fear of the unknown. Okay, well, that's a legitimate fear. All fear is legitimate. The question is, do you know what it is? And then do you choose how to react to it? And so just taking a breath and saying, okay, well, what is it that is making me afraid and acknowledging whatever that is and then evaluating it from an objective standpoint, like, okay, well, this isn't going to kill me. I'm afraid of it because it's new. I don't know. Sure. I'm not an expert at that. Okay, well, fine. Like, great. I Remind myself of all the things I'm also not an expert at or wasn't and now have become because I did it. And practice helps make perfect. My calculus teacher used to say, perfect practice makes perfect. But sometimes it doesn't work that way. We like mistakes here, but just figuring out where that fear comes from, it often is enough to reduce it to a point where it is fuel and not something that turns me away.
Yeah, I like it. And to me, a couple of the biggest fears that I think are so common, I've had them continue to have them. Fear of failure and fear of rejection. And I think that to your point, if you can redefine failure, if you can use our systems based approach, there's always going to be some successes along the way to failing. Even if you fail and in the end don't, you know, reach exactly where you want it to be, you're going to tease out some successes along the way. A quote I really like from Nelson Mandela was, I never fail. I either win or learn. And if you can shift to that mindset, it really helps you overcome those two types of failures that things that we're always worried about.
I like that. That's a good quote. Yeah, yeah.
And kind of pulling a little bit more out of your concept too is focusing on achieving a positive outcome instead of avoiding a negative one.
Right, right.
It's we're going to make this work and something good is going to come out of it. Instead of what actions am I going to take so I don't fail, you know, that it just doesn't work and that, you know, there's a quote in that Twitter feed I really like about people taking the path of least resistance.
Yeah.
And you know, they kind of settling for mediocrity and that, that is something I've always been afraid of, is settling and you know, falling into this kind of stagnation, if you will, of not challenging, challenging yourself. And so understanding that, being self aware of that will allow you to embrace those fears that otherwise can keep you from moving forward.
You mentioned two fears, the fear of failure and the fear of rejection. Very real fears, very normal fears and natural to have nothing wrong with you if you've experienced those. I certainly have. As you've been pointing out, Shannon, the idea is how to take those and reframe them as fuel in the right scenarios. But there is one fear that I think might be the biggest one. We humans are naturally change resistant. We like our habits because they're shortcuts. Right. Once we get into a routine Things are comfortable, and you've learned to become uncomfortable when things are too comfortable for you. But that's not a natural thing. That's something you've clearly learned over time and a valuable thing. Yeah, I'm sure it has. Yeah, for sure. Right. But the fear that I think is the most powerful one and the one that we all need to be afraid of the most is fear of success. And I know that it sounds crazy to say that, but success brings change. In fact, it often brings more change than failure. A lot more change than failure. Because if your business succeeds, whatever that means, let's say it, you know, you increase revenues by 10. Okay, tenfold. Well, that's amazing in and of itself. However, what other changes come along with that? How many more employees do you need to have right now? Do you need to worry about a different kind of insurance for your business? Are there all there are? I don't ask. Are there? There are a lot of other things that are going to come along as responsibilities with that 10x growth. We all want that 10x growth. We say we want it, but at our core, that's massive change. And that fear of success is, you know, I've always said it's the flip side of the fear of failure coin. And I think the fear of success is far more powerful and far more stagnating than the fear of failure for most of us. And I think for me, certainly, and others that I've spoken with and sort of had this conversation with whenever thinking about a new thing. It's not the failure that I'm worried about. It's the success that I find like, oh, gosh, what is this going to mean? And I've experienced it with employees, too. You know, I had one person, this was probably 20 years ago, where they went in one year from making about 30, $35,000 a year to making about $80,000 a year. We changed their position. We put them in a position of growth where they had some risk to manage, and they did very well with it. And through that year, there was a. Like, there was a point where this person was, like, almost paralyzed from. From not being able, you know, to keep them from working. And it was because they didn't know what to do. They're like, do I deserve this extra money? This isn't me. It's like, this isn't the past you. This is current you. And it also is future you. But future you could be even more than this. But let's not talk about that right now. Let's not throw Too much fuel on this fire.
A lot of it, I think, is that some of us have that imposter syndrome.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think we've all known people or ourselves that you can easily self sabotage your success.
Oh, yeah.
Based on, based on those fears and based on the changes that they bring in your life. And I've had partners and people that I've been involved in that when significant amounts of money have come in, either from selling a business or some large deal that we did, I've seen it where it can really. I mean, I had a guy that, you know, I did this with and he had to go see a, you know, going to therapy.
Yeah.
Because it was just, it was so overwhelming. And you hear something you've thought about your whole life and maybe part of that is you. Many of us think that it related to money anyway, that if you just had more, it would solve so many of your problems. But in reality, it often creates a lot more problems that you have to. Or different problems that you have to look at with a different mindset. And I've seen it where folks, you know, do it. And then I've seen people that never reach the level of success that you think they should because they, they stop themselves.
They self sabotage. Oh, yeah.
They self sabotage.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I say they, which is true. I've seen other people do it. I've also seen me do it.
Oh, we all do it.
Yeah, yeah, we all do it. Yeah. And so just being aware that it's a thing that we all are can potentially suffer from, you know, look for the signs of that, like, wait a minute, who's stopping me?
Really good point that out.
It's me. And, you know, we were talking in the beginning of the episode about the things that I've learned that I can, you know, point to my businesses being more successful and me just as a human being more successful in large part because of the show, a lot of it is that just like, okay, you know, like this is. I'm going to. I am the person that is the most, in my way, I would say if we rewound seven years and, and, and you asked me, well, what's the, what are the things stopping your business? I would have pointed at many external factors and, and I now know that that's not true.
It brings me to a concept I really like. I call it extreme accountability. And I would encourage us all to embrace that. And I've mentioned this before on the show and I read it years ago and I don't know I don't remember at the moment who I read it from, but it was, you know, if you want to give praise, you look out the window. And if you want to criticize, look in the mirror. And as a manager and the leader in, you know, a number of small businesses, that has always served me really well. And if you embrace accountability that most of the things stopping you are yourself, it puts you in a better position to fix the problems and always be adjusting for success because there's no one else to point the finger at. And sure, you're gonna have situations.
Oh, there are things. I mean, yeah, the pandemic was not our fault. Right. And it did impact my businesses. In the end, it mostly had a positive impact on.
Well, you have a problem solving mindset, as we just recently did a show about.
Correct.
And I would say that most of the people listening to this show that have taken the time to find it, to listen to it on a regular basis, to send questions or things back to feedbackusinessshow. Co, those folks are thinking differently than the average person and they want more. So I think that, you know, embracing be accountable for just everything, even if it is really beyond your control, you can say, oh, well, maybe I could have reacted better. Sure. This is how I, this is how I would do this. And you just train yourself. It's not being, I want to clarify. It's not coming down on yourself that it's your. Everything is your fault.
No, but it's your responsibility.
Yes, yes, exactly.
It's.
You are responsible. And because of that, you train you and it's a brain hack. You're training yourself to impact things that normally maybe you would think wouldn't be. You wouldn't be able to impact in your life, but because you have this blanket of accountability just wrapped around you, you go, oh, I can fix that. I know if I do this, I lean on this lever. I can do that.
Yeah. I know that taking action is often the right thing. So let me figure out what the best next action is to take. That's it. And yeah, yeah, and just plow forward. Figure it out. Yeah, yeah, but take it. You're right. Taking the reins, or maybe better said, knowing that you already have the reins in your hand is the, Is the way to approach it. It's like, yeah, I didn't cause the pandemic, but I mean, I'm still driving the bus here, so what am I going to do? You know, not going to, not going to stop driving. Yeah, I agree.
I agree.
Yeah.
And one of the things As I was researching fear as a compass concept as I came across a TED talk by Tim Ferriss, the four Hour Workweek guy. And he's got, he's battled lots of depression and different stuff and his concept is he creates a fear list. I love, I'm a list guy. Like we talk about the success list and the way he frames it is he creates a fear list to define your fears. And what data does is. Allows you to learn about the cost of inaction. If you don't do these things, what happens? Right.
Yeah.
And so we'll put a link into the show notes about that. You can go to the transcript or listen to him talk. He's a really valuable guy to.
He is a fascinating person. I learned about him with his four Hour Work Week book, which is a fantastic marketing phrase. It is.
And yeah, yeah. Even though it wasn't quite that.
It's not quite that, but way to. Yeah. It's a. It. What it, what it highlighted for me reading that book was the idea of creating systems to, to make sure things get done. And delegation was really a big part of it. Right. Like he, he created systems he has for that particular project. And like most wealthy successful people, he doesn't have just one income stream. We could probably do a whole. In fact, maybe we should do a whole other show about this. I saw a post on Facebook talking about sort of the flip side of it. It was like some people out there think that there's like one tax break that all billionaires take advantage of not to pay any taxes. And it's like nothing could be further from the truth. Right. There's a tax break that gets you 1% here and 2.5% there and this, that and the other thing. And then you whittle it down and now you're taking advantage of the entire system that you didn't create necessarily, but it's somebody else's system. Fine, no problem. And the same is true, certainly for me. And I don't consider myself a wealthy person like a Tim Ferriss or I'm certainly nowhere near billionaire. But having multiple revenue streams is a great thing. But for that one revenue stream, Tim Ferriss really just built a bunch of systems. He hired a bunch of virtual assistants to deal with the customer service and the things that need human attention in real time. And then he could just check in with these. And he essentially built a business that on the surface appeared like it was a sole proprietorship and that was selling his supplements. Right. I think that was what the four Hour Workweek was all about. But, I mean, there were. I don't know if there were hundreds of people involved. There might have been. There were certainly, you know, a dozen people involved, or maybe more like the people making the supplements, the people, the virtual assistants he had you know, answering his emails and phones or whatever the customer service was and fulfilling orders. He just wasn't doing those things. And so he could check in. And he was essentially the chairman of the board of this company. He created of one, but it really wasn't just one, but it was a great book to read.
Well, he had the foresight to say, well, I should write a book about this.
Correct.
And he said that is what changed his life. It wasn't the supplement, and I don't know the exact numbers or details, but if you listen to him on his podcast, you know, I don't think it was the supplement business that changed his life. It was the fact that he wrote the book and then he started pushing the concept and the book. And it just goes to our. You know, we talk about our revenue stack concept here all the time. And I always tell people that are successful, well, you should write a book. We had, you know, people on the show before that have done it. We've done it. You know, I've done it personally. We've done it together. That's just one way that you can start, you know, and build your followers. You know, there's that thousand true fans, you know, concept that, you know, if you find a thousand people that'll pay you 10 bucks a month, you know, to really follow you and get your information, you can have an income that, you know, a livable income that then allows you to do other things and to continue.
You can build from that. Yeah, don't stop there. That's right. Yes. Put that system in place. Yeah. No, Tim Ferriss is a fascinating guy. I saw him. It was a couple years ago. He interviewed Michael Pollan at South by Southwest right after Michael Pollan's first book on psychedelics came out. And I can't. The name isn't coming to me. He's got a new book called you'd mind on plants. But. Oh. The book was how to change your mind, and it was about how psychedelics can be used to change your mind. And Tim Ferriss is a very big proponent of psychedelic therapy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's the key to. For him to unlocking his anxiety. And he suffers from bipolar depression.
Runs in his family, so he talks a lot about it.
Yeah, this is.
Yeah, for sure.
He's interesting cat, really interesting guy, but like you said, super self awareness. And. And Michael Pollan's another person to, to follow. He's a he. You know, he's written eight or nine, maybe 10 now. New York Times bestsellers. Started with food and, and then moved into entheogens and, and plants and psychedelics and things like that. But yeah, yeah, he's. Yeah, two fascinating guys and to be able to see them both on stage together was like, wow, this is the meeting of the minds in so many ways. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.
So on this I want to talk about decoy pricing, but I think it's such an interesting concept that we should bump it to next week.
I'm into a week so we could.
Take a deeper dive. And it's definitely. You don't want to miss that show because it's really interesting. You may already know what it is, but we have a different, maybe a little different spin on it. The takeaway for me on this, you know, fear is a compass. Thing is everyone is afraid. We all have various fears. It's very built into who we are. But learning how to manage those things is often the difference that gets you away from the pack out of mediocrity to build and create the life you want, whether it's business related in your personal life, whatever it is. And we hope that you take some of these things to heart and we'd love to hear tricks and hacks and things that you've done to overcome these natural fears that we all have. Feedbackusiness Show Co or come up to the LinkedIn mastermind group at BusinessShow Co LinkedIn and share your thoughts up there.
Yeah.
You'll be helping somebody else as well at the same time as you help yourself.
That's right. Yeah. No, it, and it's, you know, it's interesting as you were saying, that we're. And I very much am, you know, proponents here of creating systems and systems become these automatic habits that, that happen, if you will, but very intentional habits and routinely refined habits at the same time. In this episode we're saying beware of habits and things that are cyclical for no good reason. So it's always, always evaluate the systems that are in your life, either the ones that you have intentionally created or the ones that have been created without your intention. And make sure that you're not stuck in a cycle that's either harming you or not letting you flourish. Because it is the human condition. Right. We, we very much, as we become adults, we learn to take shortcuts. If we didn't, we would be completely overwhelmed with every decision we had to make in our lives. Right. It would, it would be too much. But every now and then, it's good to take a minute and evaluate all of those shortcuts, or at least a few at a time. Say, is this, does this, you know, every morning I wake up and I, I, you know, make a cup of juice or I make a cup of coffee. It is that a good system or is that a bad system? Like, I'm not saying that it won't that it that that's necessarily good nor bad.
I'm just saying it's a whole other show.
Ask the question habits. Ask the question about your habits. Reevaluate your habits. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Love it. All right, thank you for listening, folks. As Shannon said. Feedbackusinessshow.co we'd love to hear from you. Check out our sponsors. Sky-sale.coms a I l.com ratetracker bambi.com small and keep living that charmed life. Let us know what you think.