Why Collaboration is the Key to Personal and Small Business Success – Small Business Show 200

The Small Business show, an award winning podcast. Episode number 200 for Wednesday, December 5th, 2018. Greetings folks and welcome to the Small Business show here at BusinessShow Co, the show by, for and about small business owners here in Durham, New Hampshire. I'm Dave Hamilton and out on the.

West coast, I'm Shannon Jean. How you doing, man?

I am, I'm excellent. I, along with you, won an award this week.

I heard you say a major award. It's good timing. You know, this is our 200th episode, so I'm doing a little clap there. Yeah, I'm thrilled to have made it this far and I look forward to continuing to do this every week. You know, when we first started it, you know, we just say, hey, let's, let's do this. It'll be a great way to give back to the small business community. And you know, it's over 200 episodes, we've got a hundred, over a hundred hours of content, interviews, tips to help small business owners everywhere. And I'm really proud of it. And I don't think the timing couldn't be better that we won a great award.

What do we win?

What do we win?

Dave, tell them what they won. Feedspot, right listed the top 15 small business podcasts that you must subscribe and listen to. And I, you know, I looked through the list and I found ourselves right at number one. That's right, folks. Yep, number one right there above people. Like, I mean there's some people that are like in here. The Smart Business Revolution podcast, right? You know that one. I've, I've heard of several of these, in fact that I've heard of. And, and I think John Lee Dumas podcast is Fire nation. Thing is, is he, you know, he only got 14, so I don't know where number 15 is. That's interesting. So it's the top 15, but only 14 are listed. So. But anyway, there you go.

It's a surprise. Yeah, it's cool. It's coming later.

It's coming later. Yeah, yeah, they got a dole amount slowly. So yeah, it's pretty cool. So first of all, it's exciting to be recognized in any way, shape or form. And the nice part is, as we just affirmed to each other before we started the show, neither one of us solicited for this. So that's actually a really cool thing to me is like somebody found it, that's great. And you bet I'm going to leverage this for one of my small businesses and go to all these podcasts and say hey, you know, one of the shows I do is at the top of the list. We should represent you for your advertising over here at Backbeat Media.

It's brilliant, right? That's really good. I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's great. And, you know, one of the things I am always working on is looking for guests for the show to come on, and I will leverage that as well. And just like, you know, you want to be on the number one rated small business show on from Feedspot.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. So we have, we have some great guests coming up in, in the next, in the coming weeks, and I'm looking forward to it. It's going to be good. Hey, you know. Yeah. And, and the thing that I love about this show is the collaboration primarily with you and then with our guests as well. And it's, it really fills me up, if you will, at the end of the show, I'm just like, really jacked up and ready to tackle. It's, it's, it's highly motivating. So I, I thought it'd be great to do the show today about collaboration. It's our 200th episode. It's been a great collaboration the last few years, and I thought we should. We could talk about why collaboration is so important to you personally and to your business and then some tips to how to make sure it happens.

Yeah, for sure.

Sound good?

Yes, absolutely. Yes. Collaboration is one of the things I love the most. Even though as a control freak, it may or may not be a natural thing. Right. But it is a good thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you collaborate, you don't have to. What is the word I'm looking toward vacillate, you know, give up. I mean, you want to collaborate back and forth. It's a give and take, right?

It is, but that's the thing, is you have to give up a little bit in order for that to happen. And that's a good thing. It is, most of the time, yep.

Yes. And would you be surprised if I have a list today of topics to talk about?

You and I have been collaborating on this show in particular for what, almost four years, right?

I think so.

Yeah.

I think so.

Yeah. So, no, that would not surprise me.

Yes. Yes. So the first thing I want to say about collaboration, as I've been alluding to here, is it's bottom line, it's good for the soul. You know, it sounds a little cheesy, but when you make these strong connections with other people and you're able to share your knowledge with them and vice versa when, when they share stuff with you, yours. And I'll just speak for myself here, but I know I'm speaking for everybody else. Your sense of value increases dramatically and, and that's a, you know, it's good for the soul, it's good for your well being, it's good for how you think of yourself, it helps motivate you in other projects. And it's just a great sense of, you know, well being whether you're doing it with a partner like yourself, Dave, or an employee or another business. Whatever it is, it's, it's, it's a good thing.

I have found, I've often said that many, sometimes say it as all of the good things, but that's not entirely true. Many of the good things in my life have come from music, Right. I've been a musician, you know, since I was whatever, 12 or something. And that was actually my first exposure to collaboration. I happened to be involved with a lot of great songwriters when I was in high school. I am not one of them, but I've written well, I've written a few songs. Only one of them did really well on college radio. So I quit while I was ahead. Nice. Not really nice. I should have kept going, but whatever, you know, I took the easy way out. So I can say, oh yeah, of my songs, like 50% of them charted on college radio. Yeah, both of them, right. But the process of collaborating with a songwriter, and I still have the pleasure to do that today with one of the bands I play in and actually one of the guys that I wind up doing some of these theater shows with, he writes his own music and his own shows and it's such like you said, it's just so good for the soul when somebody brings in something and it's his baby, right? When you. I'm speaking of my friend Billy, but as a songwriter or whatever, it's a thing that you created from yourself. You wrote the lyrics, you put the chords together, you built maybe a melody and then you hand it to a group of musicians and you say, go do what you wish with it. And I've worked with some songwriters that do not do that. They say, play the thing that I thought of and only do that. And I don't want to hear your input. I just want you to be a tool. And I mean that's like as long as you know that going in, that's fine. But when you've really got the ideas flowing in both directions, it really can be spectacular. And the one Song that I did write in college that charted on college radio, and I was in college at the time. The interesting part is the drum part for it, which is the part I played was written by someone else in the band. So there you go.

Yeah, it's cool.

Yeah, it's. Yeah. So, yeah, it's. But it is. It's good for the soul. It really. It's exciting to work with other humans. Like, we're.

Yeah.

That's wired to want to do that. We are. Yeah.

And I think, you know, another aspect of it is that you alluded to with the music and the song and, you know, writing. That is. It brings together kind of specialized knowledge. You know, you're one person, maybe the songwriter, other ones. Musician. Sure. You know, and it's like, you know that saying, you don't know what you don't know. You know, when you get to collaborate, you can focus on what you know best and you can bring in other people, whether it's, you know, partners, employees, whatever, that have other specialized knowledge and can. Can help, you know, kind of build you up and you can. You can build them up. And. And so you need that stuff to succeed. You know, I. I talk on the show a lot about, you know, I know the things I' and I know things that I'm just rotten at, and I always seek out a partner that is kind of diametrically opposed to me and does the things that I'm no good at. And it's worked out pretty well for me.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's a smart thing, and it's not always easy to do that. Like, you are a great partner because.

Thanks.

Well, you've perfected your craft of being a partner. I think at some level, of course, it comes naturally to you. But you also understand what you just explained that you can't be good at everything. That doesn't mean you can't do everything. And as small business owners, we often have to do everything. And that can lead us to believe that we are good at everything. And that's where I think the real strength is, is knowing, yeah, look, if I have to do this, of course I can do it like, I get it done, but it doesn't mean that I'm the best person to do this. And that's the difference. And I think that's a good thing.

Yeah, yeah, it's true. It's true. And, you know, I stress that over and over again. You know, if you don't have someone that's gonna bring some up, something else, maybe that's not the partner that you should be talking to. You know, it could be your best friend, could be, whatever. But maybe you ought to do something different because I think a lot of partnerships, and we're going to talk with a guy next week that's had a number of partnerships, and I would hazard to say that ones that don't work out as well can have that characteristic that you're both the same and it's harder to hold each other accountable. We're going to talk in a few minutes more about accountability, but I think if you're both the same, it's a little tougher to hold each other accountable.

That's true. Yeah. Because you've got too much empathy for the other person's shortcomings, to be perfectly frank. Right. Because you're going to have empathy for your own shortcomings.

Yeah.

When they're the same, then there you go. Yep.

Yeah. And I'll just jump into my accountability comment here. It's much easier to let yourself down than it is a partner. And if, if your partner's just like you. Well, I would say that it's going to be, you know, hey, we didn't get that done. Well, let's push that back a little bit or whatever. But if you have someone that's maybe more on the calendar driven thing and not as creative, or you're the, you're the, you know, calendar accounting type person and they're the creative, it really can offset each and it can be a little bumpy at times. But the more you work together, you can, I think, come up with a system that keeps you both, one, not too rigid and at the same time not too fluid, that you don't get anything done.

Yeah. And it is your. And I know this spills over into the partnership, you know, topic area, but it is important to know that you almost certainly will hit rocks at times and you gotta just, you know, be honest with each other, deal with it and, and don't avoid it. Like that's the key is if there's a problem, just say something. Yeah, you know, you're right.

I listened to a podcast I really like. It's called How I Built this and on npr and they were talking to the co founders of Method, you know, the soap guys.

Yeah.

It's a fascinating story and I'd recommend you listen to it. But one of the comments that I thought was really poignant when the two partners were talking and they've since left the business and are fabulously wealthy, but one of them is an introverted Engineer who did like the chemical engineering for these cleaning products that they designed. And the other one's a very outspoken, outspoken kind of marketing guy. And the outspoken one made a comment. He said, well, it took me years to learn that and I forget their names. My partner didn't react the same way I do to problems. And he would get quiet and kind of need time to think about things and address it. Where the extroverted guy wanted to just charge in and throw all the options on the whiteboard and come up with a solution immediately. And he felt that his introverted partner was just ignoring things and not wanting to be involved in solutions and accountability. Until these guys, they went to like couples therapy, you know, partners therapy, worked through this and realized that they had a dramatically different, you know, communication and problem solving style. And once they kind of figured that out, you know, their partnership lasted for years and years. And I thought that was a really good point.

What a good lesson to learn. I have tanked a one partnership in particular because of that. Where I had a partner that was like, would shut down under pressure. That's right. And that is not my way at all. I will highlight that and without realizing it, I'll kind of pounce on that as a weakness in someone else. And I say that not with pride. I say it just as matter of factly as I did because it's, it's how I certainly how I was and probably still how I am at some level. But yeah, like them figuring that out before the partnership tanked turned into a very, very lucrative decision.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

So that's interesting. Yeah.

And another thing with collaboration that I really think is powerful and especially right now, where expressing different views on thing, whether it's society or politically or on social networks, whatever, can be fraught with difficulties, but collaboration, it brings together those different views and different ways to look at things. And even though we talk a lot about keeping your idea to yourself to protect it when you're first getting started, well, with your partners and collaborators or employees or whatever, you know, you're going to let them in on things sooner than later. And you need people with different views to poke holes in your ideas, to offer suggestions, to make changes, correct things, and they need you to do it from them.

Yes.

And it kind of keeps you away from tunnel vision thinking, oh, yeah, look, I've had all I've. Especially if you've had some level of success and you're like, oh, I can do this and I'm going to come up with this and someone with a Different viewpoint, can look at it and make like one comment and you go, oh, wow, you know that I never even thought of that. And it's, it's much, much better to. To get hit with something like that, A different viewpoint, an alternative view in the beginning of a. Developing a project, a company, a product than it is to go all the way through and try to release it to a customers who have a different.

View, who are also, some of whom are going to share that same, different view. That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the collaboration allows you to do it and just got to be open to it, you know, and you have to. You have to be able to get a little distance from your own thoughts, your own ideas, and open yourself up to that. I mean, because it's kind of a criticism, but it's constructive and you need to do it. And the more you do it, the more you're going to learn to do it with a little finesse. Because if you just go barge in and tell people your idea sucks and this is going to work well, you're not going to get invited to collaborate very often.

No, no, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need to, you need to. You need to embrace that collaboration for sure. And, and, and it can, it can. It's interesting. It takes a confidence, not necessarily a cockiness, though. In fact, it takes no cockiness.

Yeah, it's.

It's confidence with a lack of cockiness to say, okay, here's what I've come up with. I know that it's good, or maybe it's not, but I'm okay with it. Here it is. Now I need you to poke holes in it. And it's more a confidence that any criticism or. Criticism is as good a word as any. Any criticism of the concept or idea is not criticism about you as a human. Right. It's separating from that and then. And really, it's detaching yourself from it. Right. You know, the songwriting thing is a great example where you're like, okay, here's this thing I created. Now make it yours, you know, and.

Don'T take it personal. Right?

And don't take it personal. And certainly I've been involved in collaborations, business collaborations, musical collaborations, any of them where, you know, one person brings their idea, it circles around, and then at some point it's like, okay, the things that were just added to this, two of them, okay, those actually suck, you know, like, we need to get rid of those. But everyone needs the freedom to throw in ideas that might suck, and that's the key, right, is just throw them all in. Okay, cool. Yeah. Now let's objectively look at this hole that's out here. Let's leave our emotional attachment to the ideas out of it and just as best we can collectively objectively look at this thing and say, okay, yeah, this part's great. This is. This would never have happened if it weren't for these two people being involved. Cool. But these other things like that doesn't need to be here. And. Okay, here we go. Now we've got a good thing. Let's go.

Yeah, yeah. And. And when you're the one kind of poking holes and things, I would suggest that, you know, you may have it. Oh, I'm solid. I don't take things personally. But you don't know the other person, your. Your collaborator, so you kind of. Especially if maybe it's a. A younger or. I won't say younger, but maybe less experienced business person or something or someone's putting out an idea, you know, and ideas are very.

They're personal.

Yeah. And. And you want to. You know, people are really protective over things. And so I, I mean, I always try to quickly point out the positive first. Oh, I really like this. I like that idea. I think that's a great name. I. I would do it a little different in the, in the logo or I would maybe call it. I maybe use a different web address or I. And. And, you know, just kind of put things out there and you can see how. How they pick up on them. And if they're, if they're receptive, then you can kind of lean on the gas a little bit and you can finally get to the point where, like, well, that sucks, you know? Yeah.

But you need to get there. That's right.

Yeah. You gotta. You gotta. You gotta it out. And I think that I have one.

Person that I collaborate with a lot, and it's gotten to the point where either one of us can say to the other, so that sucks. But you gave me an idea, right. And it's like, okay. And that's how things go, is bad. Ideas can still be the seed of a good thing. And so it's important to just be comfortable throwing things out, but you have to be comfortable detaching from it. That. Yeah, that's the key to collaboration, I think.

Yeah. I mean, if you think about, like, the guys that started Instagram, you know, they were make. Trying to make a video game, you know, and so. And they spent years and years trying to create this, this whole world and this. Until somebody finally said, you know, the best thing you got right now is that. That image handling software, and you ought to create a thing with that, you know, so, yeah, you definitely can. Good things can come from.

Yeah, but don't. Don't hide your ideas because you think they're bad. You know, share them. Be willing to have them dismissed quickly and move on. That's okay. But, you know, your bad idea, even if you know it's bad, throw it out, because it might spark something in someone else. And that's the beauty of it all the time. I mean, God, I. I don't think a staff meeting goes by where I don't throw out an idea that I know is bad, but it's something. It gets the ball rolling.

Yeah.

Gets you talking, gets everybody talking. And at the very least, everybody says, wow, that's terrible. But they'll then get them to tell you why it's terrible. And in. That is often the key to the next level and the next level. And it's like, okay, let's dissect it. Why is it terrible? Great. Okay, cool. That actually gives us an answer. Let's move on. Yep.

Yeah, that's great. And kind of along the same lines, one thing I really think is a great way to approach a new product or a new service, something you're working on for either a new business or your existing business, is to think outside of your market. Like, a completely different viewpoint, you know, and apply the way things are done, like, in a completely different business to your business. And see, like, okay, well, the supermarket does it this way or whatever, or Uber does it this way. How would that work if we did this kind of thing? And collaboration allows you to mix up that conventional wisdom and mix up the groups and bring in other people or other businesses from an entirely different market, different education, whatever. It is one of the things I loved. Years ago, Seth Godin wrote a book called the Purple Cow, and it was all about marketing and making sure you stood out and all this kind of stuff. Hence the purple cow. You're driving down the road, you're gonna stop and look at the purple cow, and they delivered the book to you in a milk car. So when I bought the book, it was paperback and it came in the. You know, they mailed or whatever, but it was in a purple milk carton. And I was like, man, that's so great. You know, and just different things a way and look at stuff, and that's probably not the best example of different things. Yeah, different viewpoints really can help change the way you think of your product or service or whatever you're doing and open your mind up to different ideas. Get away from that conventional wisdom that everybody else is doing it. Get away from always thinking, you know, competing on price. You know, it's just not a winning strategy. Well, sometimes it is, but there's always somebody else that's going to drive it lower. And if you can be a little quirky, a little different, if you can have that $10 ice cream cone, you know, every city you go to has something. I was related to food. I was just in New York City and we waited in line to buy this pie called crack pie. And it, you know, this gal was on the Food Channel. It's a business called Milk. And you know, she figured out how to make stuff using this, the milk from cereal. So, you know, after you fill your bowl of cereal. Yeah, sweet. It is. Yeah. Well, she used that as the basis of this. All this stuff was. She was cooked and it tasted like nothing else. And, you know, to buy one of these pies, it's like 50 bucks. And I just sat there and, you know, my kids hate it because I'm always, oh, this is great. Look at this business. It's $50. You know, I'm always talking like, I'm like, this is brilliant. This is the $10 ice right here.

48 pie.

Yes.

I mean, you gotta be, you gotta be on track to want to order one of those.

There's people waiting in line to buy these pies. I mean, and so especially this time of year. So here, you know, is a different way of looking at things. This person, this, you know, lady was just, you know, looking for, how do I get a different flavor and what if I mix this and mix that? So that's what I mean by stepping out of the conventional wisdom. We're not just going to use milk to make this, this pie. We're going to use the sweetest, you know, whatever cereal milk that we can get. It's fascinating. You can look that up. It's on the Food Channel.

Yeah, no, I got a link for it in the show notes for us. Of course. 48 pie.

It's brilliant. Dude, if you're in the pie business, you want to be in the $48 pie business, right?

Because this pie doesn't cost her any more to me than it does a twelve pie or a six dollar pie.

Yeah, yeah. We went, we went to another restaurant and one of the things they did was they came and, you know those giant wheels of parmesan cheese, you see like stacked in Italy and all that stuff. Well, this one, they mixed the hot pasta in the giant wheel of parmesan at your table. At your table. And I'm thinking, that's so great. And I was like, that's a $28 plate of pasta that probably cost them a buck, you know what I mean? Or whatever it is. A couple bucks. And everybody's got their cameras out and their Instagram, and even on the signboard outside this restaurant, it's like, yes, this is the place you've seen on Instagra, you know, and it's just a brilliant way to do something different.

It's like a differentiator. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. It's differentiated to something. Something different. So that I always try to, you know, what, what's remarkable about your business, about your product, about your service that makes it different than the other guy down the street. Because otherwise you're just going to rack your head against, you know.

Otherwise you're going to compete on price.

Yeah.

If. If you can't answer that question, you are, you are doomed to, to compete on price. That's it.

Yeah. And you'll be compared all the time. And you don't want to be compared. You want to be unique and be like, oh, well, hey, that's great. You could go, go with that consultant. You know, we're the only ones that do xyz. But if you don't need that, hey.

I know, you should go to somebody else. That's right. Yeah.

And so you know that, that, that's really, really important. So.

Man.

Yeah. Good stuff. I love it. Talking about foods make. Making me hungry.

Yeah, same food pie.

God, yeah. It's crazy, dude. So the other thing I, I about the collaboration is you kind of get to discover skills that you didn't know people had, whether they're a partner, an employee, whatever it is. When you mix up group of people, including yourself, you get a chance to see that maybe a different skill set, things you may have missed, and then how you can put those to good use. Because some people like your comment earlier, tossing out a bad idea just to get people talking. Some people, really talented people are not going to raise their hand and make a suggestion unless you put them in an environment where it's just a natural thing and it's really safe and no one's criticizing. And, you know, so you know that collaboration really can be just a wealth of information you did not know about. About people.

It's true. And, and to your point earlier, you know, it's, it's not everyone is willing. Is comfortable doing that. Right? So, yeah, that's right. You got to pull it out. You have to show them that it's okay. I liked your idea, but, you know, create a safe environment for ideas. Right? Well, that.

Handing out a. Yeah, and I like that. Handing out a bad idea to get people to talk because even the quietest introverted people person maybe look at that bad idea and go, wait, wait, wait, that's terrible. We're not gonna.

That's terrible.

We can't do that.

Well, that's, I mean, my. Let's try it for two weeks idea, right, Is, is, does it. I mean, it serves two purposes. It, it keeps people from fearing change, but it also, if there's some horrible oversight that I've made, you know, then here we're going to roll this out for two weeks and if, if there's something terrible, somebody's going to say, have you thought about the thing? And it's like, oh, actually, no, I haven't. Skip that. Let's not do this for the next two weeks. Right? You know, like, like, exactly. You know, somebody's like, you know, Christmas is in a week and a half or whatever. Right? Like, oh, right. I had my head down so far I didn't think about that. Thank you. You know, but that's the nice part about that is it just it. You throw out an idea, even if you thought it was good, if somebody else thinks it's bad, they will tell.

You and they're going to speak up.

Yeah, they're going to speak up. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. And so one of the last things about why you should be collaborating is I want to tell you a story. And this is all related to serendipity. You know, you just never know where things are going to lead once you start collaborating. So a few years ago, a couple years ago, if you remember on the show, I. I wanted to start a social media business marketplace business that I can just run on my phone. It was an experiment and I'm still doing it. And it's, you know, it's, it's. Hasn't. The system I've devised is not kicking off 100% yet, but I'm about 65% there. And it's a great, great business. And I, along the way, I started looking, how do I promote this? What do I do? And I met a guy named Jay Gentile who owned a company called Booster Bots that was all about marketing software and all this kind of stuff, because there's a lot of redundancy and things that take time in this. In this kind of business.

Sure.

And Jay makes some great apps to help you out and some assistance, some automation stuff.

Small business show episode 103.

You got it. And so I had. God, that was almost 100 episodes ago. So once I started talking to Jay and I looked at his business, I was like, this is great. And as I always do, I said, you should come on the small business show. So we invited Jay on, and he had a great story to tell about his life and his businesses that he's been involved in. And then, you know, maybe, I guess, a few months. And I've used these apps forever. And I started noticing a few months ago, and I've kept in touch with Jay that maybe the other business was struggling a little bit. And I looked at it, and I thought the business model needed to be adjusted and needed to be changed, and I had some ideas and suggestions. So I kind of reached out to Jay and we started talking, which after a few months, we realized we had a lot of the same thoughts about how maybe a different kind of business could work. And so I proposed that we start a new company. And we did. And so we've started a new business, and we just launched. We built some new software. And I've always wanted to be in the software business, but I know nothing, absolutely nothing about it. It's all magic to me. And so we built a new company called Peak Social Apps. And we're creating apps now, and Jay is creating them, and I'm helping with marketing and the content and how we build the business model. And we each have different skill sets. And I never would have ever been where I'm at now had I not started talking to Jay, just seen about his company. Would you like to come on as a guest, keep in touch. I mean, all that kind of stuff. So those collaborations can be really powerful. And I will bet you in another year or two when I talk about this new business, you know, I'll be very excited about what it's been able to do during that time.

That's awesome. That's a great story. There you go. Right? That's a perfect story. Because you. You wanted to be in the software business. Jay wants to be in the software business. He already is. He wanted to take. I'm projecting here. I don't think I'm wrong. He wanted to take the business to the next level. You've taken businesses to the next level. You understand the value of his software, even though you don't understand how it's written, but you know how it's used because you're a customer. Right. You know, I liked it so much I got involved in the business. Right? Yeah, absolutely. And that. So you can tell a good story because it's true and authentic. Authentic and all of that. So that's like a perfect. Well, on the surface, it's a perfect.

Oh, yeah, there's always, there's always stuff. And we talked about it earlier in the show about you kind of have to feel out your partners, your collaborators and how you comment. And we, we spent a couple of months doing that on Slack talking, you know what, how do you critique without stepping on someone's toes? And it's been just a great journey for me and I, and speaking for him, I, I think for him as well to where when we launched, I said, hey, you know what, what, Worst case scenario, we get this great business relationship and I would say friendship that we never had three months ago out of this, you know, and, and that's the value of it. And you just, you just don't know where, where things are going to lead.

Right, Right.

I really would encourage it. So the, the last few things, you know, we talk about, how do you promote collaboration, you know, for yourself, for your company, for your employees. And I, we talk about on the show a lot here for yourself. You need to say yes more. You need to join more, get involved. And the other thing I would say is you need to offer advice. When you hear someone talk about things you know about, try to help people out, you'll be amazed at how many people you know because you, everybody has knowledge about something. Maybe you're a shipping expert, maybe you're a real estate expert about where you should locate a business. Maybe you're a sign person, maybe you're a color person that says, hey, you should pick these colors for your next business. Whatever it is, know something. And when you offer that kind of tips and advice, it can lead to some great connections and, you know, and, and saying yes more. We, we talk about that a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I mean, anytime when you say that, when you give that advice, it is good advice. You. If you say no to everything, then you won't do anything. But.

I knew there was a but coming.

I am, I am someone. I like to do lots of things. And I definitely suffer in some ways from fomo. The fear of missing out. Right. Oh, am I gonna miss out on that? And so I probably say yes to too many things and then wind up a little bit stretched too thin and so then it's like, okay, I gotta carve this out and do this, and I've got a pretty high bandwidth for stuff, which is both a blessing and a curse. But, yeah, I agree with you that you have to say yes to lots of things you do. Just put an asterisk on that and make sure you don't overstretch yourself. That's all.

Yeah, and that is a really good point. And when I say yes, like joining groups, associations or whatever, going to trade shows, I mean, those things, you can get sucked in pretty quick with things that can take a lot of your time. You'd be proud of me, Dave. I just literally had somebody contact me that's in an area that I really enjoy as a hobby. And I know some things about business, and they're like, look, we're looking for a CEO for this company. We really would like to talk to you. And I was like, oh, there's no way, dude. I cannot. I am. So I just said. I said my bandwidth right now is really maxed out, and I would not be. I wouldn't be. I'd be doing you a disservice and wasting your time to come have that conversation, you know, And.

And that's. That. Not only is that a good thing to tell people, it is a good thing to recognize. I. I actually, earlier today, I was telling you before the show I had to turn something down. And it was. It was like, look, I know that. That my skill set means that I'm the right person for what you need, but my time says the opposite. And what will happen is we will both be frustrated because we're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. You're not going to get enough time out of me, and so you're going to be frustrated. I. Because I can't do something without actually being present and doing it, I'm going to commit more time than I say I will. And I will be frustrated because at this point, what I say I can commit is the maximum I can actually commit, maybe even a little beyond that. Right. And so the conversation was, yeah, I know, we should do this. I want to do this. You want me to do this. It is like, now is not the right time for us to work together on this. And it was an honest conversation. But that's, you know, that's a good way to. I don't want to say to let someone down, but it's a good thing to notice in yourself. Like, be okay with that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah.

Got to be able to do it.

Yeah. Yeah. So maybe it's be okay with saying yes and be okay with saying no.

Yeah. You pick and choose, right?

Yes. Right.

Cheers. So for your company in collaboration within your, you know, your building or whatever, I have one word that I believe is the most powerful method to get people to collaborate. And that word is food. And. And I'm. I'm really serious about this.

You're totally right.

Yeah. It's like, you know, put putting food in a central area where people from different departments, different divisions or whatever, from the front of the building to the back of the building, bump into each other and talk, having, you know, silly things. Like, we used to have contests to see who could make the best breakfast. You know, we bought a griddle and some pot, you know, all this kind of stuff. And just.

Just.

It connects people like you wouldn't believe. And then I've talked about it here a number of times. Cook for your people. Get a barbecue and cook for them. Don't just bring donuts, but actually make them food and get everybody together. I mean, we had no space. We used to do it in our warehouse because we had this building. We didn't even have conference rooms, so there was too many people, and we just lined up picnic tables and have it out there. But you see how the. The different department, you know, the technicians, the salespeople, the administrative, the customer service, all these people start to, you know, work together and collaborate and, you know, stuff happens. It's magic because not only, you know, do you come up with new ideas and different things, but that, like, for example, the customer service person is going to have a completely different view of the technicians that they're kind of supporting. Right. In my business, it was the technician. Somebody calls this iPad didn't work. Or a school says, you know, we got these from you, and there's a problem. That customer service person knows the supervisor or the technician that worked on this product. It's just a different mindset. It's not, oh, those jerks in the tech department screwed up again. You know, it's like, oh, I gotta go talk to Bob about this, or, you know, or Sharon about this, because how did this happen? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, so here's. Here's the thing. I agree with you on this. And food can be a great thing to break the ice with, you know, a new customer or an existing customer. Customer. Right. Or new vendor, whatever it is. And. And I've always. And I haven't done any research on this, so I'm. I'm definitely armchair psychologizing right now. But the reality is we're mammals, right? And you never see, like, if you look at your cat or your dog or whatever, if they're scared or something surprises them, they stop eating. They will not eat unless their guard is down, right? And they will not eat unless they. They feel like they can let their guard down. And so to me, that means that when we're eating, our guard is down. By definition, I don't think we're capable of being on high alert and consuming food. Like our bodies just aren't hungry when we're on high alert. It's just how we work. And so if you can sit down and eat with someone, like everybody your guards down too. So bear that in mind. Know that going in, but everybody's guards down. And you get this honest, authentic conversation or just interaction between, you know, two people or 200 people, whatever it is. And it really brings everyone together in, I think, a deeper way. Like, I think there's a human connection that happens there when you share food. So, yeah, for sure.

And you know, the thing like, so not for your employees. I think one of the things you have to do to promote collaboration other than giving them food is to. You have to give them some flex time to explore. And it can be just small little bits of time. And, you know, we're all, all like stressed and hustling and trying to make our numbers and that kind of stuff. But if, you know, they're going to take the time anyway, I guarantee it. And so, you know, try to steer them into things that would help collaboration. One of the things I really liked to do is to move employees around your organization. You know, let everyone know what it takes to ship out the products. If you ship products, make sure the salespeople know what it is to answer a customer service call, all that kind of stuff. Because again, it connects your team in a much closer way than the sales people say, oh, I don't take those calls. I'm a salesperson or whatever. Right?

Yeah, exactly.

It's really important. And then I think you need to recognize and reward it when you do see positive things happening. When a customer service person says, you know, we're getting a lot of calls about this, or, you know, we always have problem with iPad, this one model and the glass would lift up here or there. And, you know, the customer service people worked with these technicians and gave them great feedback and they came up with this wonderful solution. So you really, when you're cooking them lunch, lunch for their barbecue or whatever it is, you need to recognize. Hey, I just want to recognize so and so for helping out in the tech department and fixing this problem that we didn't even know we were having. Yeah. But, you know, recognizing is really important. And what happens over time is it. Is it becomes part of your culture. You know, your managers or supervisors should be asking, hey, can we have a technician come up and work the front desk today and interact with customers? If you're having customers. Customers walk in your front door or whatever. Yeah, right.

Whatever it is.

Yeah, whatever it is. Can we have the web guy sit in on a sales call so he can hear what the, you know, people coming to our website has to have to say? I mean, all these kinds of things, you know, you just kind of build in to your. Your culture and, you know, the magic. The magic will happen. So, you know, and we would love to hear about your ideas for how you collaborate, what's worked for you, what hasn't worked, and. And please reach out to us at feedbackusinessshow.co. and tell us about it.

It's feedbackusinessshow.co.

That'S right. That's right. That's what I meant.

That's what you said.

That's what I said. And. And. Or come talk to us. And the small business support group businessshow.co Facebook will route you over there. And we really thank you for listening, and we're happy to be here on our 200 show.

Yeah. Congratulations, Shannon. We made it through 200, man. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

And we're number. And we're number one.

And we're number. We're number 200. And number one. Number 200 on the show. Number one in your hearts. That's right.

You got it.

See you next week. Keep living that charmed life.