Transitioning to a Larger Company Head of Global Marketing at Clubhouse, Maya Watson (Podcast 178)

Going back to intention is that important to you? Knowing what your core principles are as a leader and how they might translate and adjust as you go from a small team to a bigger team? I think that leadership is one of those things that we don't talk about enough being a skill. It's something that you have to practice and that you have to study just like you would accounting or something like that, or law. And it's about understanding what are your core philosophies as a leader? How do you go about solving problems and getting to solutions? And how do you create an environment where people can operate at a super high level? One of the best principles I think I learned from Netflix was this idea of leading by context, not control. But one of the things they taught us is like, how can you lead people by not telling them what to do, but by creating a space and an environment that set them up for success as a leader, I believe you are the chief context and clarity officer to help create the space where people can be successful.

Our guest today is the head of Global marketing at Clubhouse, Maya Watson. Maya is leading the creator, partnerships, community, editorial, and communication teams for all marketing initiatives. Prior to Clubhouse, Maya was an executive at Netflix, leading editorial and publishing, and a longtime executive at OWN Networks and Harper Productions. Originally from Minneapolis, Maya has a BS In Marketing and advertising from Indiana University and an Ms. In Integrated Marketing and Communications from Northwestern University. So, Maya, welcome to the Second In Command podcast.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Happy to be here.

Yeah, My. My dad used to joke that a BS in marketing was exactly what it sounded like, but now that's not true because marketing's such a science now. Marketing used to just be a kind of the art of. Of, you know, communication, but now there's such a science behind it.

Oh, my God. My dad says the same thing.

Right? Has your degree and the kind of education that you have, has it become, like, completely redundant in today's era? And I'm not dating you because you're not. You're not old, but, like, has it changed so much marketing in the Last kind of 10, 15 years, do you think? Or is a lot of it still very relevant?

I think with education, it really prepares you, like, how to think, like, how to approach problem solving, how to think about frameworks, or, you know, going through case studies to learn and grow and analyze information. But in terms of, like, the question, practical tactical art of marketing, like, what I do didn't exist when I was in school. Right. So it was. I went to Northwestern, I think, in 2009, 2010, and the idea that you could build a career, like in social media, for instance, was not something that existed. I do think that programs that I've seen lately have gotten a little bit more sophisticated in thinking about kind of like the digital era and the social era. But back then, you know, it was like the four P's of marketing, you know, and things like that.

Now you've been at Clubhouse, you're fairly new, you've only been there for about six or seven months. Is that right?

Right, that's right. I mean, in the. In the grand scheme of Clubhouse and how many people we have, I'm actually very tenured because we're growing really fast. So I joined officially in March, early March, and I was employee number 15. And now I think we're around 70 people six months later. How is that growth been exponential, overwhelming, exciting? It feels like some days like I just got here, like I'm, you know, it feels like, okay, Today is day one, and some days it feels like I've been here 37 years because so much happens so, so fast here.

What has the growth been like? Has it been hard to manage? Has it been easy?

You know, this is my first time at a startup like this. You know, in my career, I've been at more established companies and I didn't really know what to expect. But I think it's been good. I think with Paul and Rohan, they are serial entrepreneurs in this way. And so they're very reassuring to be like, this is normal, this is fine. This is what to expect. Because for me, I'm like, wait, is this what's supposed to be happening? It's been really good. I think the best part about it has been the hiring and the teams that we're building. And every time we bring in somebody else who's incredible, it's like it gets even more exciting, right, because you have more heads up the table, more brains solving all these problems that we're trying to face. And so that's been really fun. I think the energy from the community and our creators has been really exciting because for the people who came early and who have been a part of the community, you know, for the last year and last fall, they are also excited about the growth and seeing the energy that's coming, you know, to Clubhouse. I would say, though, you know, moving this quickly and having this kind of growth comes with a lot of pressure too. I definitely feel the pressure to deliver and to deliver at a super high level. But, you know, pressure makes diamonds, I guess. I Think it's a better scenario to be in.

That's the quote we have to keep telling ourselves in this high growth. Right. I think I said it a thousand times when I was building one, 800 God Giant. Pressure makes diamonds. Pressure makes diamonds.

Pressure makes diamonds.

Clubhouse was at 15 team members for, it seemed like, ever.

Yeah.

Or was that just the kind of public statement. I think I joined Clubhouse. I think it was in October, so I think I got in reasonably early, but I think it was like 15 people. 15 people. 15 people. And then what? What started that trajectory of growth?

Well, you know, it's interesting because when I came in and again, I was not looking to join Clubhouse, not really on my radar. I knew that I wanted to lead Netflix and do something different, and I wanted to be at a startup and move over to the tech space and do something outside of the entertainment landscape. But, you know, Paul and I got connected to each other, and when we were talking, this was probably like early January, February, he was like, listen, the growth here is exponential, and if we don't stop everything and hire, we're going to be in big trouble because it was just taking a life of its own. You know, Clubhouse was just on this trajectory that is, I think, really unheard of. I think it got to the point where they didn't really have a choice, you know, but to stop everything, hire, get the foundation really solid to then be able to grow from there. You know, when I came in, there was, I think, two people on the team, Steph Simons and Anu, who have been longtime community members and are also very visible in the community. You know, he said, I want you to build comms and social, editorial and programming and creators and community, all these different functions. I was like, first of all, that is more than one person's job, but I will see what I can do to get started. You know, when you're building, the most important thing is the people, you know, getting really clear about, like, what kind of person do you need at this stage? Because the job is going to change a thousand times, right? So it wasn't even about what's the tactical part of the job. It's like, we need a global head of communications or we need somebody to lead partnership. And it's like, what's the kind of profile of person that's going to be successful in this moment. I think I hired six people in six weeks. It was something insane, and it was the fastest I've ever hired. But I think for me, the way that I hire, the way that I Recruit is I'm pretty focused on, that's the person I want. And, and I just don't really stop.

Until they say and I think you hired a friend of mine. I think you hired Kelly Stoetzel from ted.

Was that Kelly Stoetzel from ted? Yes.

Was that you that poached Kelly?

Yeah. So Kelly had been in conversations with Paul before I got here. You know, it was just light conversations because Guy Raz was really active on the platform and I think Kelly was really curious about clubhouse. And so when she and I started talking, you know, one of the teams that I think is very critical, every team is critical at this stage, so they're all very important. But media partnerships, we call it media partnerships, is the team that's working across different verticals and industries to go educate and onboard new people onto Clubhouse. And that's really important because, you know, as we started with an invite only model to the end, it really, if you think about the concentric circles, right, and where the invites went, started with, you know, the tech and Silicon Valley industry. And so what's been really important to me is to extend, expand the types of conversations and the people and the energy having these verticals around. Okay. What types of industries are going to really do well on Clubhouse? And thought leadership obviously is something that we thought would be really important. Of course, just having great conversations about big ideas and deep conversations and philosophical thinking and anything. When Paul mentioned like, oh yeah, I met Kelly and I was like, Kelly from ted. Ted. Kelly put me on the phone with her. She and I just started to talk. You know, I think a lot of times it's the right time, you know, it's timing and she's been a Ted for 17 years and forever looking to make it. I mean, she helped, you know, build it and was looking to do something different. It was really intrigued and so it just, it made sense and we're both big fans of each other and it worked out.

Yeah, I think she's going to be a great, I think she's going to be a great team member. I've been friends with Kelly for about 10 years. I met her, I've been going to Ted, the main Ted now, since 2010. I did a talk that's on the main TED website about raising kids as entrepreneurs instead of lawyers. Kelly's wonderful and, and I'm a huge fan of it. I've been going again in April and I've been to TED women. I was one of only a number of men to be allowed to go to Ted Women about seven years ago, and I went again three years ago. Great organization. I think that's why I got obsessed with Clubhouse. So for anybody who just, you know, woke up from the coma they've been in in the last eight, nine months, tell them what Clubhouse is if they don't know.

Yeah. So Clubhouse is a social audio app where you talk live and communicate with friends around ideas. It is live audio, meaning that it's happening in the moment and it's based on conversation and it's voice only. We don't see your face. There is no content that is additionally in the feed. It's just live conversations happening all over the world around different topics. And so what's exciting about it is it's. We also talk about it in the sense of it's collaborative, it's groups, it's tribes. And I say on Clubhouse, you can either find your rooms first or find your people first. And so there are rooms happening in our hallway. We think of it as a physical place. You are in clubhouse, right? And you go through the hallway and you scroll through rooms and there's rooms happening. There could be stand up comedy happening. There could be a com. A TED conversation happening called thank your ass off to start your morning off with gratitude. If you keep scrolling down, there could be a small room of five people trying to figure out what they're going to do for the day. If you, if you keep scrolling through, maybe you're being sent to bed by the lullaby club. You can only whisper, right? And so it's this whole spectrum of experiences that through the power of voice connects people.

I got pretty addicted to Clubhouse. I joined, I think roughly last October, got deep into it for about three, four, five months, where my kids were laughing at me. And I used to listen to everything on Clubhouse when I was cooking, if I was driving, if I was working out. And I loved it because it was that engaged conversation. And unlike something like Facebook where someone makes a post and then somebody comments, you're not engaged in a conversation and it's very delayed conversation. Whereas this is. You're definitely engaged. It's an amazing, amazing app. I love it. So in the growth that you've been in, what have been the biggest struggles for you personally that you've had to kind of overcome, where have you had to grow as a leader?

Well, a couple things. This is my first time stepping into a role as like head of marketing. And so stepping into this new scope has been something that's been interesting. It's my first time reporting directly to A CEO and founder. It's my first time being at a startup. It's my first time being in tech. It's like. It's my first time. It's my first time. It's my first time. I think it's my first time onboarding to a company remotely and getting to know people, not in person as often, building a team remotely. It's the first time working at a UGC social platform. You know, with all of that, I think what I've had to recalibrate is just how I'm going to feel every day. You know, when you're in these big, cushy, stable corporations, I think we take for granted, or I took for granted just the stability that comes with the infrastructure that exists. And here, you know, in the early days, I would say, Paul, do we have be like, no, no, go build it. Have we thought about. No, I need you to think about it. What about. Nope, it doesn't exist. Go do it. And so building from scratch requires so much intellectual Olympics. Right? Because you're, you're not only building something that hasn't existed, you're building something that you know you want to do it in a way feels good and that feels right. Right. That's also like in line with where we're trying to go. For me, it's like one, I didn't even know how to do this one thing. Now I have to figure that out and also build it in a way that's like at the highest levels possible, really fast. And so it's required me to be really disciplined in my day. Right. Like there is not a lot of space to just not be regimented and like how things get done, otherwise it just, things pile up. Right. And you get behind and the worst feeling you can have, I feel like at a startup is to feel like, oh man, I'm falling deeper behind and deeper behind because the list of things to do is so vast.

Sure.

And so you have to stay on top of like your to do list and the things that need to get done and the ruthless prioritization. Right. Which is of the thousand things we need to do, they all need to be done. What is the thing I need to do today and how do I get that done and how do I figure it out? So that's been really interesting, but like such a great learning curve because I can tell that it's made me a much thoughtful, more thoughtful, stronger executive very fast. But then also just being honest around, there's a lot of shit I don't know. Right. And There's a lot of stuff none of us know. And so part of the magic is like, how do you bring together the right people and create the right environment in the right space where we can solve problems? You know, I was just talking to this new employee and he was like, you know, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do. And it's like, guess what? None of us are right. But the magic is you know how to solve problems, you're curious, you know how to build frameworks, you know how to attack things. And so it's about taking those approaches and the things that we do know and applying them to a space that's unknown. Right. We're going to get some things wrong, but you know, if we have confidence in our abilities, I think we'll be okay.

How do you, this is huge. How do you screen out the people that are seasoned and senior that you want to start bringing into Clubhouse to work, to work with you that are too corporate, they can't run in this entrepreneurial pack? How do you screen them out and how do you prevent them from even applying?

Well, you know what, it is a different thing. And you know, I, I mean, listen, I don't know that on paper I would look like the person who would do well at a startup.

You know, like you had the traits, so what are the traits that you have?

I think if you're so, if you're in a bigger corporate environment, to me it's about have they been entrepreneurial in a bigger place, you don't have to have like built your own companies or done your own thing, but it's like, have you created something and did you see an opening that nobody else was filling? Did you go fill it? Like were you a self starter? Did you go figure it out and how did you figure it out and did you take the initiative? You know what I mean? Like those kinds of things you look for. And I think I'm a big believer in well, well done is better than well said. So I also try to look for things that I've seen in the world that have been really impressive to me and like, who is the person that did that right. And go find them versus having so many incoming and screening a lot. That's what I mean in my recruitment process, it's really important for me at this stage. I know that I want to build the most diverse team that tech has ever seen. On the marketing side, that's super important to me because it's like if we're thinking about DEI to Begin with, you don't have to do it later. And also, we need to make sure that we're building a team that is representative of the communities that we're ultimately served. So looking throughout the landscape and looking at, like, okay, who did this thing over there that I love? The reason, you know, Fadia Cater was one of my first hires is because I saw how she innovated at Instagram in quarantine with, you know, De Nice and Club Quarantine and building versus Battle that happened, that became these, like, huge cultural phenomena. Like, she created that when there was, in a way, where it was like, how do you be creative, you know, on these platforms in this time, right? And so it's like, oh, I want to go get her. You know, I had seen what Gray had done with Spotify on the comm side because I was such a huge fan. And Netflix, I'm like, who's running their comms? It's so, so smart and sophisticated in the way they use data, right? It's really great. I'm like, I want to go get him. Google Ted, go get her. And I think Oprah taught me this, which is, like, where you put your energy, like, is where you get results. And so I don't want to spread it too thin. I really wanted to be really focused and potent around the types of people. And then it's like, you get a few that. It's like, look who we have. Look at. We have these people. These people, you know, be a part of the special thing that we're building. We've been really fortunate to bring in to me the most talented team that I've ever seen.

That's amazing. I'm glad you just mentioned it because it was my next question. And I love you. Kind of odg. Shucks it. But, like, Oprah. Oprah taught me. It's like, past the Cheetos. What was it like working at Harpo when I built one extender got junk. We actually were on the Oprah Show. We had, like, a great episode, and it was extraordinarily hard to get in the door. What was it like to work there? And how did you get in the door? How did you get hired?

Oh, my God. It's such an epic story. But it was my first job, like, real job. I started right out of college. So I became a single mom at 19 in college. And that was, like, probably the most pivotal moment in my life, right? Because it's like, oh, shit. Yeah. Right now you gotta actually figure out what to do with your life. You can't keep partying on south beach, you know. I moved home. My parents lived in Indiana, which was 90 miles outside of Chicago. I grew up watching the Oprah Show. I grew up. You know, my mom would watch the show at 4pm so Harcourt Studios was 90 miles from where my parents lived in Chicago. I was like, you know, wouldn't it be a dream if I could go there? And I don't know what really led me there. I always wanted to work for people in places that, like, I felt inspired by and that I was a fan of. So I remember driving up to Harbor Studios because this was back when There was no LinkedIn. There was none of. Yeah, but my great express suit in Chicago went to the front desk and said, hi, I'm here to see somebody in hr. And they said, do you have an employee? I said, no, I do not. But I know there's an HR team here. And so I would like to meet somebody so, you know, I could learn about opportunities. So they weren't. They wouldn't take me. So I ended up sitting in the lobby for five hours that day. And I sat in the lobby, and it was fine. Everybody was like, how did you sit in the lobby for five hours? Well, they had the TV up in the lobby where you could watch the tapings of the show. So I was entertained all day watching the shows being taped and just saying, I'm not leaving until I meet somebody in hr. And so this gentleman comes down. His name is Torrance. He's a good friend of mine to this day. He's like, what do you want? And I'm like, I need to meet you because I want to work here. And so I don't know if you do internships or informational interviews. I think I was 20 years old at the time. And he was like, no, we only hire college grads. You have to have production experience this, that, and the other. And I said, okay, if I go do all these things, then you'll hire me? He said, yes, it's likely you could get hired if you do all these things. So I said, okay, can I have your business card? And I'm going to keep you up to date because I'm going to go do all these things, you know. After that, I got an internship working for ESPN Radio, getting some experience there. I worked at Comcast for a summer, getting some experience there. I was a general assignment reporter in WSBT in South Bend. First summer to get production experience. And every time I would have these moments, I would email Torrance and be like, hey, just wanted to update you. I'm checking off the list of things. And so. And that took me about two years. And then he called me and said, okay, we're doing an internship program. I have to call you because you've essentially been annoying me to death. And can you come in an interview? So I came in an interview the next day to work in publicity, and I got hired, and I started the next week. I lied and said that I had my degree when I didn't. And I called the dean of the business school at IU and I said, listen, I have this incredible opportunity for a paid internship. I need you guys to work with me in my last semester. So it was my last fall semester. He said, we'll do independent study and you don't have to come into campus. So they didn't know that I wouldn't go into classes at night and doing all this stuff. But I started in 2007. The fall of 2007.

Amazing.

And so, you know, working for her was a dream. I mean, on so many levels. One, the work was exhilarating. You felt like you were at the epicenter of culture, and the things happening in that tiny production studio in Chicago were, like, making waves all over the world, working with, like, incredible women. The team in particular was, you know, very female driven, and so just being inspired and seeing women at different positions and different levels coming together, but then also working for her. She is just an incredible leader. She is such a woman of integrity. She is incredibly smart and business savvy. And so I spent a decade that, really my 20s, at working for her on the Oprah show and then transitioning over to the network and working on the magazine and a lot of different projects and initiatives there, and so it just felt like a masterclass in life.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? There's so many things where you'd be in a meeting with her. Like, I remember this very fondly often happening, where we'd be in a meeting and somebody would be presenting something, and they would have spent weeks or months working on it, and we would get to the end of it, and she would be like, doesn't feel right. Like, I get all the numbers are saying to go that way, but it's something. Something doesn't feel right, doesn't feel like me, doesn't feel aligned with who I am, or something feels awesome. We're not going to do it. So the balance of, like, being business savvy, but also being intuition, like, paying attention to, like, your intuition, and I Think that often is like not something that's regarded and business of following your gut.

It's not enough. Do you trust yours? Like, do you. Do you use yours, Work with yours?

Oh, yeah. Everybody who knows, like, you know, one of the things that I took with me from that experience is, is talking about intention. You couldn't do anything without being clear about what is your intention, what are you trying to achieve? You know, if you are putting somebody together and you're working on something and you have a really clear intention, it's like, does it all line up? I think it comes from having, you know, I have a very deep spiritual practice. I don't go into work every day without kind of having the quiet moments of prayer, meditation, devotional, to get still and get clear. And I think that guides me. And you know, the truth is the more you use it, the more you are in tune with it. And you know, when it's like, this doesn't feel right, it's just, it's all energetic and so that's probably the greatest gift that I think she gave to us, all of us who worked for her. It's like the gift of like following your gut.

It's interesting you just said, you know, if you have the intention and then it's kind of like trusting your intuition. And then what I layer into it is your. Your behavioral trait of that persistence. That's it. Like, if it's kind of like if you know where you're going and you trust your gut along the way and you just can work hard, you're going to be good, right?

Yeah. I mean, there is no silver bullet, you know, And I think that is like the lesson of startup world for me is you just want to wake up and be like, it's working. Yeah, the things that we're doing are working. The truth is there's more failure.

It takes a long time.

Yeah, it takes a long time. And it's like where you're building the railroad tracks, right? And it's like in the open frontier and it's just grit. And can you get up every day and get through your list? Can you finish that last email? Can you make that other call? Can you push yourself to come up with that new idea? It is like a game of persistence and resilience. And I think that is probably the number one quality in my opinion, that I think I look for and also want to attract. And you can have done anything and been anywhere, right? And have that, have that trait. But I mean, it is just, it's a grind It's a grind.

So can you speak to that? Because Clubhouse is going through a bit of an inflection or a historical point, I guess. Like it's, it's, it went through such a massive buzz crazed energy and then it seemed to kind of like hit a wall. It's not dead by any stretch. It's not even dying. It's just, it's just something's changing. How are you working through that with the team and what's changing?

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's really natural, I think, for people to have that perception.

By the way, a lot of it, the change is good. There was a lot of marketers ruining Clubhouse very quickly and I think you somehow were able to stop that, which was good.

Yeah, I mean, I think so. The good news about Clubhouse is that it broke through and hit like a core need that I think we all didn't realize we needed, which is we all want to be so much more connected than we are. And Clubhouse allows you the opportunity. Like the reason people just gravitate towards it and did like, right. Without a lot of real effort, it just took off on its own. And whenever something like that happens, that's what like I'm most curious about is like, what is it doing? Like, it's gotta be meeting some deeper need. And we talk about it as like a more human place on the Internet because I think it's like a big exhale and a big, like him, like I can just really be myself here. And so because of that, it took off super fast.

Yeah.

The product again we talked about, right. There was only 10 or 12 people on the team, like four engineers. And so when something takes off like that on its own without having the right infrastructure, it's bound to break, you know, And I think Paul talks about this a lot, which is like, it was actually really unhealthy growth. It's not sustainable growth. When it grows that fast, you don't have the things in place. What's happened is it's like, let's slow things down. Like back in March, we intentionally slowed down the invite system because we're like, we just, we can't keep letting people in here in a broken system. So like, let's fix discovery, let's fix this, let's hire our team, let's get a logo together, let's get a plan in place, let's have a clear value proposition, let's make sure people can find their friends, make sure we're surfacing up the right room. Let's make sure that the new user onboarding flow is smooth, like basic things had not been done. And so despite all of that, we're still seeing the amount of rooms created go up every day. I think in April, we reported 300,000 rooms opening up every day. Just this past week, we announced 700,000. The amount of rooms have doubled.

That's huge.

And that's huge, right? And so people like, clubhouse is dead. Clubhouse is dead. Part of what happened is we weren't in control of our narrative, which I think was really something that we weren't able to tell our own story. You know, when we hired Gray, our head of comms, he was the first comms person in the building. So there was no proactive storytelling about the things that were happening behind the scenes. What was happening is the reaction to the growth. The growth, the growth. And then, of course, inevitably, like every story, it's like, it's here, it's over, it's dead. But for all of us who are there and who are here, it's actually really thriving, you know, post general release. And when I say general release, it's like, now that it's open, where you don't have to have an invite model and anybody from anywhere can come in, we're seeing just incredible conversations and communities from all of the global communities from all over the world, but also discussion happening from every spectrum. Like, last week, you had rooms on Afghanistan, the crisis in Afghanistan happening, right? And you had these extra overruns happening from pundits, commentary to people on the ground in Afghanistan giving real account to onlyfans, you know, drama and sex workers, you know, sharing their stories to. There was a conversation about the power of black Twitter, which is Wired's 15th animal. You know, Wired cover story to jeopardy. Drama with LeVar Burton and Mike Richards. And what's happening there? You know, people making cat noises in the middle of the day. Like, it's literally the full spectrum of experience. And so what I'm excited about is we see the shift in the conversations, the types of conversations, expanding. News, cultural events, sports, comedy, entertainment, music, lifestyle, beauty, wellness, faith, religion. Right? And I think that's what's really exciting is that there's so much more happening than there was before.

I think so, too. I think a lot of it has changed from being marketed to. To discussions happening as well. A lot of the rooms were. And I won't mention any names, but there were some rooms where, you know, there were big rooms, but you were just being marketed into Funnel, and it just wasn't productive. So I've got a couple questions for you. One was how do you make a transition? And this isn't for you, but for someone who maybe is looking to how do you make a transition from being a second in command of a smaller company, let's say like a 10, 20 person company, to a bigger company, like maybe 100, 200 employees. What advice would you give people?

I think it's really about understanding. Again, going back to intention. Why is that important to you? But then also knowing what your core principles are as a leader and how they might translate and adjust as you go from a small team to a bigger team. I think that leadership is one of those things that we don't talk about enough being a skill. It's something that you have to practice and that you have to study just like you would accounting or something like that, or law. And it's about understanding what are your core philosophies as a leader? How do you go about solving problems and getting to solutions? And how do you create an environment where people can operate at a super high level? One of the best principles I think I learned from Netflix was this idea of context, not control. Leading by context, not control. You know, they have a very specific value system, cultural norms at Netflix, which are incredible. But one of the things they taught us is like, how can you lead people by not telling them what to do, but by creating a space and an environment that set them up for success. And I think that's true whether you're leading a team of 5 people, 10 people, 50 people, or 100 people. Is you as a leader, I believe you are the chief context and clarity officer to help create the space where people can be successful. And so I think once you understand that and then you have your style right around what kind of environment are you trying to create? What kind of team connections are you trying to inspire? How is the work going to change from 10 people to 100 people, putting that process in place. And so that's where for me, when I was at Netflix, my organization went from three people to over 100. And the job. Right, it becomes different over time. But instead of talking to one person around, here's how. Let's talk about how we're going to get this done. You're now talking to 75 people. Right. The same principles apply. It's just how you might talk about it, how you might set up the context or the storytelling, making sure they understand what success looks like. That might change because you're talking to a more broad set of people versus an individual. You Know, my dad. My dad's an entrepreneur, and he's led a lot of teams and his career. And one of the things he taught me as a leader was, like, when people aren't delivering, it's really important that you focus on you and not them. Because nobody wants to not be successful. Nobody doesn't want to do well. Everybody wakes up, goes to work and wants to. Wants to do a good job, right. And wants to be seen for the work that they do. So either you haven't set up the right context, your expectations are not the same, or they're not clear on what success looks like. And you go through those three things, and when you go through those three things, if you're still not getting the results you want, then maybe it's. It's a skill deficit or something like that. But I think that same thinking applies again at an individual level, a small team level or big level, right? Which is, do you have the right clarity, the right expectations, and you know what success looks like?

You. This is another question I got, which was, how do we, as a leader. How do you as a leader, not get too emotionally entangled in your people's lives and needs as humans when it's getting in the way of business? You know, it's that delicate balance and really, really caring about people. But it's like, God, like, we still need to get our shit done.

I don't know if this is, like, a controversial. It's probably not a controversial opinion. I don't think there's a way to. To be the leader, to not get emotionally tangled with your employees, especially with people who are either your directs or you work most close, closely with. Because I think that. And this is why it's like, it's sometimes a really painful experience because I deeply care about the people. And I think you can't lead what you don't fundamentally understand. And when you're a leader, you're in the human business, and you have to understand, like, all the facets of that human, because they are bringing their full humanness to work. I think you do have to know what's going on in their personal life. You do need to know if that sick child is getting better. You do need to know how they're managing their divorce. Like, you do need to know things like that, because that shows up, right? And it also, I think, allows us to be a lot more compassionate and empathetic, but then also allows us to trust each other. But I think we. We also have to be honest with each other to say this is so business. And so we, we do have to. So we do have to make hard decisions that sometimes don't feel good. We do have to make hard decisions that can sometimes feel uncomfortable. But to me, the goal is it should be a mutual, beneficial exchange. So because we're getting ready to, you know, we. We're getting to know each other. You need to know me as a human. I need to know you as a human. You need to be getting out of it what you hope to get out of this experience. I need to be getting out of it what we said you were going to bring to this opportunity. We're going to be in it together because we spend more time with the people we work with in our own families most of the times. And so I think it's odd to say we're not going to be emotionally invested when we spend most of our days with these people.

You mentioned that it's your first time reporting to a CEO. What have you learned in that?

Oh, man, it's fun. I'm really fortunate because Paul is incredible. He's funny and compassionate and patient. It's no different than reporting into any other manager or boss. I think I've just put more pressure on it because it's like I find myself being like one of his chief advisors at this stage. It's really. A lot of it is still in his head in terms of, like, where this company can go. And so part of my role I see, is once to build out and manage the functions that he is giving me the privilege to oversee, but also to really get in, I have to know him on a human level the same way that I would want to know, you know, my own people. Right. Because we're building this together. And understanding. When he says this, does he mean that just understanding the nuances and the different parts of him so that I can help bring the vision to life even faster. It's been great. It's been great. It's been. I mean, I get in my own head sometimes around like, oh my, good enough doing a good job, but I'm also self aware enough to ask, do you think I'm doing a good job? You know, where are areas that I can grow or where areas that, you know, you feel like I need to double down in. And so he's been a great partner.

All right, you talked one other last question before I kind of wrap, but you mentioned the ruthless prioritization. So what kind of a system do you have that allows you to prioritize like that?

You know, I mean, we Definitely use okrs as, like, a organizing principle as a company. But I think it's also talking to the team a lot. It's this combination of understanding from a business level, what are our goals and what are we trying to accomplish? Like, what are. What's the most important thing from a business perspective? But then also speaking with everybody on the team to ask, what do you think is the most important thing we could be doing? What do you think is most important that we could be doing? What do you think is going to have the greatest impact? Taking all of those insights and then sitting and choosing a few things. You know, and sometimes you realize that we picked the wrong thing that wasn't the most important thing we could do. And other times it's like, no, that's actually really great. There's goals over there. Let's keep going, let's keep going, let's keep going. It's trial and error, and I think it's learning a lot from those who've come before us, too, right? Doing our due diligence to understand what's worked and what have been the trajectory of other companies like us. But then it's a lot of us sitting together in a room and saying, what do we think? Right, Based on gut, based on intuition, based on some data, based on the voices of the team, than being like, let's choose that one and let's see what happens. So, so far, I think we're doing a really good job, not only as a team, but I think as a company, making sure that we're creating value for the community, which is at the utmost importance of people who are using our product. Don't feel fulfilled or aren't finding value. You know, that's a huge mistake and a huge loss. So that's always like the most important thing. And then underneath that, it's like, what are all the things we could do to keep adding value?

All right, let's go back to the your day one. You're walking into Harpo Studios, your first kind of career job. What advice would you give yourself back then that you know to be true today, but you wish you'd known, you know, when you were starting off?

I think I would have said, take more notes and keep a journal of all of your experiences, because you're going to look back and just be astounded by the experiences and also take the pressure off. You're going to be fine. Your only job is to show up and be the best version of yourself, be kind to others, be curious, and everything else will follow I love that. Yeah.

Maya, thank you so much for. Maya Watson, the head of global marketing for Clubhouse. Thanks for sharing with us on the Second In Command podcast.

Thanks for having me.

You're welcome.

I think we've learned a lot from one another. We're both a lot better, more rounded people than we were when we first met in 92. So we've known each other a hell of a long time. It just didn't seem like a big thing starting a company together. I know that might sound crazy, but it just seems like that's kind of what we do.