Solved: 4-Year-Old Refuses To Dress Herself or Say Sorry (Live Coaching Session)

As a parent, you know it's important to have clear boundaries, but you also want to be caring and compassionate, right? Well, I'm Camilla McGill, and as a seasoned parenting coach and mom of 4, I'm excited to give you the principles, tools, and inspiration you need to raise amazing kids. Welcome to Raising Kids with Love and Boundaries. Today I'm really excited to be bringing you a different format. I'm joined by my guest Hannah. Look, like most as parents, Hannah faces some challenges, and I can't wait to explore how we can make her days feel calmer, easier, and also more connected with her girls. If your situation is slightly different, what you'll hear is some common issues, some— and, and also, I hope, go away with some great solutions. We all have blind spots when it comes to parenting, and sometimes the solutions are actually more simple than we realize. So we're going to dive into what's going on and share strategies not only to help Hannah's family thrive, um, but also hopefully you too. So Hannah, tell us about you and the things that you find the hardest.

Um, so hi, I'm Hannah. I'm a doctor. Me and my husband are both doctors, and I work almost full-time. I've got two little girls. One is 10 months old and one is 4 years old. And like most people, I have lots of things which I think I could do a little bit better.

Absolutely. Cool. So, so tell me, I know we've chatted a little bit beforehand, But maybe just bring up first off one of the things that you find the hardest, and I'm gonna just kind of eke some things out, like ask you a few questions and then give you some, some pointers. This is kind of like a coaching session with me that my clients would normally do.

Okay. So in the mornings, my husband leaves really, really early, and then I have to get the girls ready by myself. Yeah. Um, and The 4-year-old goes to a preschool and the 10-month-old goes to a nursery, so it's in two different locations. My 4-year-old can get dressed by herself, but since the little one's been born, she doesn't want to anymore, and so I have to get them both ready and both in so that I can start my working day.

Wow, and how are you feeling at this point? Like, you know, what's Normally what happens is there's a kind of a start off calm and then a time pressure build up. Is that, is that what happens?

I find it kind of depends. So if we've had a really bad night's sleep, sometimes I start off in kind of in a bad mood. Yeah. And those are always the days that go worse.

Yeah.

And I try and not do that, but it's really hard. Or when I know that there's a difficult patient that I've got to see, or I've got some other meetings or things that happen in the day. You know, it's just, or there's a time pressure, I've got an earlier starting clinic, something like that.

Yes.

Okay.

So a couple of things, one I want to ask you and one I want to just point out is that what happens is, as adults, our minds go to the things that we're concerned about and we're stressed about. So your mind will go on, on the days when you know you've got a difficult patient that you've got to see. Your mind is going to that, and our child's mind is very much— they're there, they're in the moment. Okay, so what we don't realize is that the external stresses have such an influence on, on how we approach our children, and they pick straight up on that. Um, like, there's no blame here, but it is sometimes helpful to think 'Oh, I see that I'm getting irritated with Naomi, your daughter, because, um, actually this isn't about her. This is about the fact that today I've got an earlier patient, or today I've got a difficult patient to, to, to, um, to deal with.' And, and so that, you know, when we can think, 'Okay, this isn't actually about her,' it can help us to press a little bit of a pause button um, which, you know, will, will really help to evaluate that, um, we can't put the blame on our children when we've got external stresses. So that, that's one thing that you might find useful. The other thing I wanted to ask you, and I know this is painful, and believe me, I was so guilty of not doing this: are you dressed when you're trying to get her dressed?

Are you Yeah, I normally get completely dressed and ready upstairs. Yeah. And we go downstairs and get the girls ready because I can't be doing everything at the same time.

Okay, well, that, that's great actually, because that would definitely be something that I would recommend because they sense, you know, if we're there in our dressing gown or our pajamas and they're— we're trying to get them dressed, there's a bit of a sense that there's something not right, quite right here. Next question. So let's just say it's a day where you've had a kind of an okay night's sleep, because we've all got to be aware that, you know, young baby, broken sleep is definitely going to affect how positive you can be. The night before, has Naomi been involved in, in any sort of laying out of clothes or any kind of preparation for the day?

No, I normally do that once she's in bed.

Okay. Okay. So I would actually recommend that if it's at all possible, you get her to pick out— is there a bit of a fight over what she's going to wear in the morning sometimes?

Uniform, so no.

So that's quite nice and easy. Great. But, but I would definitely get her to put it out in some way if you can. You get dressed downstairs with Naomi, is that right? Or upstairs?

Their stuff is all downstairs.

Okay. And when you go downstairs, does she get distracted? Does she like suddenly spot something that she wants to play? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just wondering if, if you could actually get her dressed upstairs before anything else happens.

Yeah, I could do. I could do. I kind of sometimes need her to be a bit distracted so that I can get Essie ready though, so that, you know, if I sit her down, if she gets dressed and then I get Essie ready, um, yeah, that's what I normally do.

Yeah, yeah. Listen, I mean, when I'm working with parents, it's always about a bit of sort of testing, but when I suggest testing, I don't think just do it for one day. Uh, it's not going to give you enough of a sample, if you like. But I would actually recommend that the first thing, if, if you know that the hardest one to do is Naomi, I would actually recommend that your first focus is on her. I mean, if you, you know, if you're time pressured, which we of course are, then I would say perhaps bring Essie and, and have her there getting her dressed whilst you're with Naomi. But, but I think if getting dressed is the, the first thing that they have to do and you've prepared the night before, you know, the bathroom is actually quite— have you got a big enough bathroom where you could get her dressed in there?

Yeah, you could do that.

Okay. I, I get that the distraction thing is useful, but it's also, um, it doesn't really help you progress because if she's not doing it herself, um, then, um, and she's sort of used to you distracting her, it's not really helping her be more independent. So you could either just getting dressed in her bedroom, or you could do it in a kind of very boring place, which is the bathroom. Um, whichever way you choose, I would just definitely get her to be involved in laying the clothes out. You then got to bring in the positivity and the step by step. So tell me what happens. Say, do you start off by saying, can you get yourself dressed, Naomi? Is that what you start with, or do you just automatically go to doing it for her?

Do it because, yeah, I put Essie in the high chair with breakfast and then I start just getting her dressed because it's easier just to do that.

Yes.

Yeah.

Listen, don't— like, I see on your face with me, there's never an apology, there's never any, never any judgment. Um, but what I would like to think as you progress, and she's going to big school in September, where she will need to take off her clothes, and maybe she does it already, but you know, when they get changed for, for PE, they do need to get themselves undressed and dressed.

Perfectly capable. Yeah, and I'm dressing myself. She just— and actually she was until Essie was born, she was doing it herself. It's just since then. Yeah. What I say to my husband is sometimes she just chooses the path of violence, you know. She just Some days she'll just do it by herself, and other days everything is a struggle. Yes, yes.

Okay, well, toddlers are unpredictable, um, and they have very changeable moods. Um, it is a big shock for them having a baby sister, and they will very often regress. So what we want is for her to feel that sense of connection with you, that sense of nurturing, that kind of encouragement Um, as well as perhaps some acknowledgement that it's hard having a sister, which I'm sure you do, but we sometimes can forget to do that.

Yes.

So, um, I would just try having her do the getting dressed herself again because, you know, she can. Um, and do you ever, like, put some music on your phone or Yeah, I could.

I have sometimes, and my husband does that on the weekends, and she really likes that, but I don't really think about it.

Yeah, yeah, because, you know, we're just wanting to get the job done. But so I would say, um, let her pick out, you know, a piece of music that's her getting dressed music, and it might be another day she decides on a different piece of music. What it wouldn't do is if she's then like, I want another one, I don't want another, you know, maybe that she has one or two to choose from. I think when— if we can limit choice with children, give them the sense that they're choosing, but within some boundaries. So I would just have these clothes laid out, and then what you want to do is, is literally piece by piece praise and encourage, praise and encourage. So that, um, and we can do things like— children love opposites. So if we can say, well, you definitely won't be able to take your pajama bottoms off, she'll take her pajama bottoms off. And then, you know, so it's not exactly opposites, but it's sort of a challenge, you know. Oh, now those pajama bottoms, they definitely don't go on under your pillow, or I wonder if they're going to jump by themselves. Some form of— and obviously this is hard if we're feeling stressed and we've had a bad night's sleep. I get it. But what we find is if we can force ourselves to be that little bit more positive becomes this virtuous circle. She then responds, we feel better, time actually goes quicker because, um, now you probably need— if you've been doing it yourself, we could arguably say, well, it's quicker to do it myself, but, but you know, in the long run it actually will be for her to do it, and she's already— yeah. Not only just quicker, it's actually that chance for connection. So, um, she, you know, you might have a giggle about it. You might pick up her pants and say, oh, here are my socks. And, and of course, that's the sort of just love. And they'll, you know, no, they're not. They are. Aren't they my socks? Oh, what are these for then? And then she puts them on. We do have to force ourselves at times because the last thing we feel like is being positive. You know, we just, as you say, you've got a responsible job, you, you've got other things on your mind, but, but equally feeling more confident and competent as a parent, it's just so much better.

It's just, yeah, that's what I say to my husband is that sometimes I feel like I've done my whole day before I've even got to work. Because yeah, it's hard work. So if it was easier, it'd be better.

Yes. Yeah. Because the other thing is, and I don't know if you find this, but so many of my working parents find this, is that when we've had a bad day, it can impact the first 45 minutes of our work.

Yeah.

And, and that's really hard because then we're feeling kind of doubly bad. You know, we've had a run-in with our child and we're not fully focused for our work, which, uh, you know, which really makes it hard. So, so I would recommend that if we just sort of work back, when children feel involved and prepared, uh, they're just, you know, mentally they're more ready. So that night before thing, um, even if it is just her pulling them out of the drawer, or maybe you're recycling some of the uniform from the day before, which I'm a big advocate, but sponge, don't always wash it all. Um, but she's seen that that's what's going to be there in the morning.

Yeah.

Um, we then try and make the environment positive with perhaps some music or a silly song or something like that. We're breaking it down so that if we need to give them an instruction, or often a question is quite good, so what's next? It's piece by piece, not get yourself dressed, because that's overwhelming. Um, might test out doing it in the bathroom, uh, because it's less distraction, or perhaps her bedroom. But the reason why I recommend it's the first thing we do is that then it just becomes this part of, of a routine that they are then expecting. And then, you know, working in perhaps getting Essie dressed at the same time if you can, or, uh, yeah, I, I don't know, you've done Essie before, I don't know which way around you do it, but seeing this part of your routine is actually as— not only is it functional, but it's also a chance to have a positive interaction with her Yeah, yeah. Any questions on that?

No, I think I could definitely give that a go and see if it works. I definitely think getting her involved in picking the items she wants to wear so that she knows what there's going to be in the morning. Yes, I think that would be helpful.

Yes.

And kind of decrease the conversation about it in the morning.

Yes. And also just adding in a little bit of the element of fun.

Yeah, I could definitely do some music. I think she'd like that. Um, yeah, we could definitely do that. I try to do the bit by bit thing. Um, yeah, yeah. But I think maybe having fewer distractions if we did it somewhere where, you know, it wasn't where all her toys are and things like that.

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. This is actually covered. I have a free guide called How to Get Your Kids to Listen, which is about this It's called the GREAT method that I teach in it, and it's covered in that. Actually, if anyone wants to grab that, it's myparentingsolutions.com/listen. So tell me what your other struggle is.

So the other thing which I find difficult is with my big girl, like Naomi, is about saying sorry. And sometimes she's really good and she will, she acknowledges and, you know, she's done something wrong and she— why you say sorry and saying sorry. Sometimes she says it, but she just sort of shouts it and—

sorry.

Yeah. Or sorry. And then she kind of like looks away and runs away. And other times she just won't say it at all. And then sometimes I find it really frustrating and I don't know how much to push saying sorry or whether I should just let it go.

Great. Okay. Can you give me a couple of examples of situations where you want her to say sorry?

So when she does something to Essie, she's actually normally quite good, um, and she will say sorry, but it's normally the shouted sorry.

Yeah.

And, and I think that's partly because she feels bad, but it's still, it's not very nice. Yeah. And for example, last week We'd both had a long day. I was trying to get her into her pajamas and she just kicked my hand and, um, and then like trod on my hand. Yeah, and it was really sore. And then I was really annoyed because it was really sore and she just wouldn't say sorry. Um, and I didn't know whether to just get on, get her into pajamas, go to bed, just leave it, or whether I should push it and say, no, you've hurt me and you have to say sorry.

Yeah, okay. Um, I, I just love these examples because they're just so relevant to so many parents. So I really, you know, I thank you for, for, for raising it. And so, okay, um, there's a couple of things that we need to know about young children. They're very impulsive. In fact, impulsivity is, is, you know, it's it's so prevalent in our little ones that it's pretty much across the board. We find some children a little bit more impulsive than others, but generally they're, they're all impulsive. So when she hits Essie, when she treads on your hand, when she snatches the toy out of Essie's hands or maybe throws it, and it might, you know, be unfair because Essie was playing with it. It's all driven by impulsivity, which is driven by a feeling. Now, the feeling might be frustration, it might be jealousy, um, it might be, you know, at the end of a long day, she's feeling dysregulated because she was tired, she missed you. We don't know what has driven the feeling, but the impulsivity is the action. So if we think, we have to sort of step back and think, what do I want the sorry to achieve?

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's basically what happens, is that I knew she was tired, I knew that she was overwhelmed, and I knew that it wasn't really gonna go anywhere, um, but I was, I guess I was her, and that I was really annoyed And yeah, yeah, yeah.

But also there's this fear like, oh God, if I don't, um, kind of make a thing of this, is she going to think that that's okay?

Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I guess that too. And yeah, and if I, you know, step on my hand today and kick me, what's going to happen tomorrow?

Yes, yes, exactly. Now if we think Okay. Is saying sorry going to impact next time she's impulsive and has a strong feeling that she's expressing? Do you think it does or not really?

No. And sometimes I say to her, I can see that you look like you're sorry, but you're not saying sorry. And I kind of don't know whether that's enough, um, because I can see that she, you know, didn't mean to do it.

Yes, yes. So I mean, yes, we want them to feel some kind of remorse, but, but really what we— the best thing that we can help them with, um, is to feel more regulated so that they don't have that knee-jerk reaction in the first place. And I wouldn't say that saying sorry helps with that aspect of it, the impulsivity and the feelings that they have that they're expressing in the whatever they've done that's hurt somebody else. So I think we need to acknowledge you felt upset, which is why I hit Essie or whatever she's done. Would she hit her, pinch her, squeeze her a bit too hard, snap her too hard?

Squeeze her too hard, definitely.

Squeeze her a bit too hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I would, in that instance, now obviously not everybody has got one sibling jealous of another, but, but, you know, if you have a different issue situation, there's still those common threads. Um, I would actually acknowledge the jealousy. I would say, I think you were feeling a little bit jealous of Essie, which is why you squeezed her. I know you love your sister. And you don't want to hurt her. Now we can also say, if you feel jealous, could you squeeze something else? Could you stomp your feet? Could you tell Mummy, I wish she'd go away, which is what she will be feeling at times. It doesn't mean to say that she knows Essie's going to go away or that, you know, don't love Essie, or that even she doesn't love Essie, but they have these strong feelings that, that drive, uh, the action.

Yeah.

And, and so that is going to help her feel like she's not a bad person, uh, there are other options. And what we can do is actually— it sounds funny, but actually practice the options away from it. So, you know, tell me, if you are feeling jealous of Essie and you feel like squeezing her when she's not feeling jealous of it, you know, when it's not evident, what could you do instead? That, that is going to help her to— it won't immediately, she's little, you know, it's, it's normal, but it's certainly going to help her develop the skill that we want. Whereas saying sorry might help her release some of the, the shame, which we don't want her to feel. Um, but it doesn't improve the action, the behavior. Um, so that's what I would think about. And then if she's trodden on your hand and hurt you, I would go— and, and this takes practice because obviously when we're hurt, you know, I've had things thrown at my head, I've had bites, I've had all kinds of things happen with my children. So, and of course we have a, uh, we have our own protective instincts. So we go, what?

That hurt.

Um, yeah, we can catch ourselves, if not before, you know, we might still have the reaction, but then we say, for you to stamp on my hand shows me that you've had perhaps a hard day, shows that you're feeling tired. I know you didn't mean it. Shows me that you, um, you know, perhaps I hadn't given you the attention that you wanted.

Yeah.

You then may well get the story more spontaneously because, um, you've de-shamed it. You've helped make that connection between, um, our feelings and our impulses. And our actions. I don't know if you've had this, but would she— is there a play situation where you might want her to say sorry and she doesn't, or she'll say sorry? Have you ever had a snap toy or with a—

yeah, yeah, that's definitely happened as well.

Yeah, yeah. Um, I would— and often there's this expectation between parent and parent that, you know, They say sorry.

I think that's basically why I want her to practice saying sorry at home, is so that when we are with other people, it's, you know, it's not a big deal. It's more instinctual that you'll say sorry because it is really hard. Yeah. Parents looking at you.

Yeah. What we find is that if our child is still full of the emotion that caused them to do whatever it was they did, Yeah, we are very likely to get sorry, which actually makes it worse because they are, you know, the other parent knows that's not a real sorry. Yeah. We're then left feeling a bit stupid. And, you know, and then we think, what do we do now? But actually, and I really have done this in many situations, I've said, I'm going to deal with this. I know right now if I ask him or her to say sorry, it's just, you're going to get that hollow one.

Yeah.

But I am going to, we will address this. And we've actually even come back home, um, and discussed it in when everybody's calmed down a bit. And I said, what could you do for whatever the child was? Um, and you know, would you like to do a drawing? Would you like to say give her a hug next time you see her, whatever it is. And the drawing can be quite a nice one.

I don't think she would remember it that much later, but I could try.

But it could also be, say, you know, you're at the playground and you can sense that within about 10, 15 minutes or less sometimes she's calmed down enough to realize that she shouldn't have shoved her off the slide or whatever it was she did. Um, then you can say, I think now you might go and show Anna that you're sorry. And it's, you know, a little bit of time has elapsed. So I've heard it work in both situations. If it's something quite small, then it usually— the fallout is quite quick. So they've become a bit more regulated quite quickly, and they're able to show it. But it's, it's, it's just managing it with the other parent and saying Yeah, I'm gonna deal with this. It's just right now it's not gonna work.

Yeah.

Um, and I think the other thing we've also gotta think of, and this is, this is just a very good general way of managing our own thoughts as parents, is to think, you know, all children do silly things. Um, it doesn't mean I'm a bad mom and really my child is the most important here. Look, I'm a mom who wants a child that's, that is kind and considerate and realizes that they've done wrong and knows the difference between right and wrong. Then that, that I believe, you know, most parents will want. Um, so if I'm just trying to force this sorry just to make the other parent sort of either feel better or make myself like a better mom. The most important thing is me and my child.

Yeah, yeah. Who am I getting the sorry for, I guess?

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Who am I getting the sorry for? So now I've talked to it. Is that— tell me, give me some feedback. How would you—

could you— yeah, I think that would be good. I think, um, like the idea of what am I getting the sorry for and, you know, how actually to prevent the behaviour. And, you know, because that's what I kind of wanted, is that I want the story so that she doesn't do it again, but that the story doesn't mean that she's not gonna do it again. So I think that's kind of, yeah, that's what I want to achieve, is not having that behaviour, but actually maybe talking about it is better than trying to just get the story. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. And always remembering that, um, they're driven by that. We all are driven by our— when, you know, I know with you, if, if you've got a stressful or had a stressful day and, uh, you come back home and I don't know, she spills honey, bashes a pot of honey on the floor, something ghastly like that. And you lose it, you know, and you shout, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, it's an emotion. It's— yeah, yeah, we all have them.

And I guess that's kind of what it was, is I knew that she was so overwhelmed with the day that we'd had that nothing was going to be very fruitful. And that's— and I think I probably tried to push the story too much in that situation. But that's also because I was feeling annoyed and upset about it.

Absolutely, absolutely. And, and, you know, you also tried to push it because you want to make sure that she's a child that knows that she shouldn't bite or hit or whatever. But, you know, I, I think we, we can so do so much more with that away from these stressful, intense moments.

Um, you know, yeah, when you're—

when we're feeling calmer. Exactly. And so there's that thought that we might chat about kindness. The other thing is catching the kindness, like, and I'm sure you do this, but there will be moments when she's adorable with her sister. Yeah. And, you know, maybe her sister's crying or hurt herself and she'll comfort her, she'll go and get a toy for her. There will be those moments. For some parents who really struggle with sibling jealousy, they may seem very few and far between. Yeah. Are there, and it's catching those and highlighting that as a value, you know. Yeah, kind to our friends, being kind to our sisters, being kind to the environment, to animals, you know. The more books and, and, uh, the more we talk about that, the more they know that's really strong value. Um, yeah, but it's also being very aware that they're impulsive and they're driven by their other feelings and You know, those intense feelings drive the stuff that we don't like.

Yeah. Yeah. She is also very good with, with Essie. But yeah, I, I do try and, um, you know, comment on that as well. I'm sure you do.

I'm sure you do. You know, uh, it's, it's the hardest job in the world. Forget being a doctor, a brain surgeon, a physicist, an astronaut, whatever. It's, it's way harder than all of that. And we're not taught. And also there's just a lot more known now, you know, it used to be, you know, ignore the tantrum, punish the bad behavior, all those kind of things. But we just know so much more and that can be confusing because we sort of don't quite know where we stand. But, so I really hope that today has been helpful.

Yeah, I think it's been really good. Hopefully you'll see Naomi and Essie flourishing from it. Well, I'll let you know.

Well, you can always come back and, uh, and come on the podcast another time. And, uh, if you've got any other queries, any other challenges, but I, I just, yeah, thank you so much, uh, for coming on. It's been lovely having you, and thank you for your openness and your willingness to, to listen to suggestions. So thank you.

Thank you, Camilla.

So how wonderful to have Hannah on the show. If you would like to be a guest on the podcast, please do send me an email, camilla@myparentingsolutions.com, and you can book a discovery call with me. Go to my website or see the show notes below, myparentingsolutions.com. And also, if you'd like my free guide to getting kids to listen and cooperate, go to myparentingsolutions.com/listen. So, uh, that's all for today's episode of Raising Kids with Love and Boundaries. Thank you for joining me. Don't forget to follow or subscribe and tell your friends. Thank you.