Alyse Borkan – Co-Founder of Rocco on Building the Ultimate Smart Fridge

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Elise Borkin, the co founder of Rocco. Elise, thank you so much for coming the show today.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Of course. So I know I was telling you beforehand and for the listeners, you know, I received a Rocco fridge just the other day and I've just been truly. And I'm not just saying this because you were like so blown away by the product and how it looks and just really the innovation you guys have brought to this smart refrigerator market. So before we really dive in, I'd love to give you the opportunity just to speak at a high level of what is Rocco for those who may not know?

Yeah. So Rocco is a drinks fridge that has smart features. It's the first drinks fridge that's actually designed as furniture to sit in your living room and replace a bar cart. And then there's a site system built into it so you can actually see inside your fridge from your phone and keep track of all the drinks that you have.

I mean, as you just said, it's all this unique element of, and which I loved and which caught my attention personally is, you know, when you talk about just the furniture aspect where, you know, up until I reached out to you and the team and I never thought about wanting to have, you know, a secondary fridge in my home. I live here in la and it's one of those things where when I saw it and I'm sure people that are listening and watching when I'll link it down below so that people can see it, like it really catches your attention and it has such a beautiful aspect to it. And I want to kind of take a step back and dive into the design aspect of this before we dive into the business stuff, which is where does your taste for design and like the beauty around the product stem from in terms of your childhood or is your viewpoint on design overall?

Yeah, not my childhood. Because if you saw where I grew up, you would be like, this came out of this person. But over the past few years, I really just grew, grown extremely fond of almost like a hobby of interior design. Actually renovated two homes in two years, which I may never renovate home again.

Truthfully, I saw the, I saw the photos on the article. They're beautiful, by the way.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I, I had an entrepreneurial spirit for a while. I've been working in startups for most of my career and I wasn't sure I was going to be able to come up with a good idea for a company. So instead I was like, you know what? I'm gonna make an Airbnb empire. And like that's gonna be my thing where I channel all my entrepreneurial energy. And so I bo1 and then I bought another. And it was doing really well, but it was so time consuming. And after a while like I felt so, I felt so like tied to these five star reviews that I had to get and like it became kind of like a chore versus like feeling fun anymore. And actually at the exact same time I had met Sam and I was like, okay, great, I can give up my Airbnb empire and start a fridge brand. Sam is my co founder and so like through the process of renovating these homes, I was looking at furniture and making sure that I was creating these spaces that felt really warm and inviting that people would want to stay in and was really drawn to appliances and furniture that didn't really feel like traditional designs. Like for example, the TV that I was putting in all of my homes was the Samsung frame tv. And I loved how it doubled as art and it didn't look like this kind of a massive black screen in my living room all the time. And so when I met Sam, my co founder, and he was looking into fridges, who we were like, you know, can we do for the fridge what Samsung had done for the tv?

I love that perspective and I align with that so much in the sense of my fiance. She's, she takes pride in her design. And on our TV in our living room, we don't have the specific frame tv, but there's always like this artistic, like an art frame kind of looking background or a video playing of beautiful waves or whatever it may be to really make instead of this big black screen in the living room, just something beautiful. And I, I've learned that through her. Like, wow, this actually does make the room feel different. And you know, by byproduct of that, everything in your environment can truly influence you in terms of how you feel about a room, especially in terms of the design elements. So it's really cool to hear that. Like through that process, you know, this product sort of became this idea. And you talk about your co founder and I remember hearing Sam was in his previous roles, found himself walking through refrigerator factories. Is that accurate?

Yes. Sam was the head of supply chain and product development at AWAY and the Suitcase brand. And while he was at Away, he went to some fridge factories because apparently there are manufacturing similarities between fridges and suitcases. They're both big hollow pieces of Metal. I don't know what the manufacturing similarities are. That's a question for him, not me.

Yeah.

But while he was there, he learned that a lot of the big appliance brands weren't really innovating in the space. They were changing a handle, changing a logo. And he actually had wanted to put a wine fridge in his living room. But he rents in New York City, he wasn't going to renovate his kitchen. And there was nothing that didn't feel like a big soulless box that he would have to put next to his couch. And so he started designing the fridge from the ground up with an industrial designer in Italy to think of it as furniture. And that's when I met him. And our story kind of evolved from there. I actually. He tried to reach out to me a few times and we had met and I was like, I don't know if I'm the right person for this. I actually haven't drank alcohol like almost 10 years. At this point, I was like, you don't want to launch a wine fridge with me? And so that's kind of where the idea came from to make it an all in one drinks fridge that's a little bit more inclusive.

Wow. No, it's. And for the context to listeners, you guys launched in late 2023, if I'm not mistaken. Is that right?

Yep.

Got it. And so as a consumer myself, it's like an average beverage consumer. I'm the type of guy that loves going to the stores, looking at all the beverages, trying 12 different things, and just kind of figuring out the brands that I love that become staples. And again, I was telling you before, I'm so excited to just stock the Rocco with drinks that I really love that have that like a special place in my heart of, you know, like throughout the day or in the morning or after a sauna session, after a workout. And it's. It's one of those things where I'm curious to know from your perspective and your co founders in terms of like, prior to launching Rocco, I know you worked at Casper and a lot of these incredible brands. Where was the beverage category in your mind? Right. Because obviously this, you guys aren't launching a beverage brand, but you live in that space of doing partnerships with them. And of course, beverages live inside the product. So tell me more about the history of your perspective on just all things beverage and sort of where that plays in your life in terms of the importance of it or kind of where that is today.

Yeah, I mean, I think as somebody that hasn't drank alcohol in many years. I actually find myself buying more drinks, I think than somebody who drinks alcohol because I'm like trying to constantly discover things that replace it. Especially when I'm in situations where I'm you know, hanging out with friends and everybody else is drinking alcohol. So I'm constantly the one like trying all of the new non alcoholic spritzes and sodas and yeah, I actually like had an experience with my partner. Both of us, you know, we came home from the grocery store, both of us each want our own drinks and then we didn't have enough room in our kitchen fridge for everything because drinks take up a lot of room and we had a small fridge at the time. And so it, you know, for me inspired us to like think about what if we did have this place for storing drinks that was separate from your food. So that way they kind of had a special place in your home and you had the opportunity to store as many as you wanted and try as many as you wanted. And I do think that there has been a huge rise in, you know, ready to drink cocktails and different types of soda, different flavors of seltzer and being able to take home as many as you want and experiment with them and discover what you like drinking after lunch. What's actually going to like take you through that 4pm meeting that you actually were dreading, but now that you have a Yuzu seltzer, it's totally fine and it's your emotional support drink. And so I think yeah, I have a lot of emotional.

So good.

I think in that way it just, you know, plays a huge role in, you know, people's you know, day and kind of they have different rituals around drinks. Whether it's iced coffee in the morning that they're now having at home or it's, you know, seltzers that they're drinking when they're working from home. And then it's you know, cracking open something at the end of a long day of work that you're sharing with your partner over dinner.

Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's so cool to hear. And I think like the, I'm a big coffee drinker and I believe I, I saw you. You're aware of the brand Cumulus, right? The coffee machine. Have you heard of. So I recently had Mesh, the founder of that on. And we're just, we were talking about. And I think it's really relevant to this conversation is how beverages show up in your life, especially coffee in one category of, you know, for Me, I'm someone that's a avid coffee drinker and as I've mentioned, like, very into my beverages and they really serve as sort of like checkpoints in my day. Right. Whether that's before the gym or I have my coffee when I'm reading, and then after the gym I have my electrolyte beverages. And like, for me, it's. It's always. It's become more and more, I guess you could say, important of like having the brands I love at home. And I want to pivot the conversation in the. In the aspect of beverages. Something that your team has done that I became aware of is you'll partner with beverage brands when customers make a purchase to stock their fridge upon it arriving. Talk to me about the mindset around that just because I thought it was a great idea. And I know when I we're having the juices sent out right now, like, this is so cool to like have that. You know, you get this phrase that of course you want it. You're going to go add a lot of great beverages to it. But talk to me about that partner program and how you see that evolving over time.

Yeah, so we've been doing it basically since launch. Each month, the fridge comes with a different drink and we really do a variety of different types of drinks and also work with brands that are both legacy brands and have been around forever, like a Lacroix or like Anatoly's juices to brands that are a little bit newer or maybe launching a new drink for the first time. So, you know, for example, we partnered with Kin and helped them launch their Matcha Teeny. So every green fridge that we launched that we sold in November came with a bottle of their new Matcha Te. And so the idea is really to help people discover new drinks that they might not have discovered before, that they might love. So even with Lacroix, we launched a strawberry drink with them that they hadn't been on the market yet. And it launched at the same time as our partnership. And so you got access to this new Lacroix flavor. And with Natalie's juices, everybody knows they have an orange juice you've probably seen at the airport or the grocery store, you've probably drank it. But what you may not have known is that they also have a tangerine aloe juice and they have a ton of different flavor juices, like a beet apple that now you can actually try for the first time through this partnership. And so what we really want to do is just help people discover new drinks. That we think that they'll love and help them stock the first few shelves of their fridge so they really get it and immediately start using it and start loving it and just, you know, realize all the joy it brings?

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm. I. I mean, we've been talking about beverage for a while now, but I'm obsessed with. And then therefore, I've become an investor a while back in Olipop. And just. I say that for disclosure purposes, but I'm just obsessed with Olipop. And I'm curious to know, when you talk about partnering with brands every month, I guess I'm just more so curious as well. How far are you guys forecasting out with these brand partnerships? Because I would imagine, I think it's such a cool part of the brand element through different seasons, through the summer, through the winter. And I'm just curious to know, as someone that has such an extensive background in, like, the marketing space and really that lifestyle around the product itself, is there any strategies that maybe you've learned throughout the last year and a half of being in market through these partnerships that maybe other brands can take away from and really think about in terms of how they may be integrating partnership efforts like this?

Yeah, we're definitely planning pretty far in advance. But I would say one of the things that I love about being so early with Rocco is that we can really be nimble. So if a drink brand reaches out to us and they're like, hey, we're launching this new flavor, we think that your customers would love it. Can we launch it together? We have the ability to kind of move things around, which I still love. We're not like, locked into the next 12 months yet.

Totally.

So I'm going to appreciate that while I can. I think one thing that has really been great about this program is that it benefits both us and the beverage brands in almost what I see as an equal way. Like, our customers are kind of sampling these drink brands for the first time, and then these drink brands are continuing the relationship with our customers and able to offer them discounts in the future, tell them about new flavors that they're launching, and really meet a set of customers that are beverage enthusiasts who, if they're spending fifteen hundred dollars on a drinks fridge, are most likely going to be investing a lot of drinks throughout the year. So it's so nice to be able to introduce our customers to drink brands that we think they'll love. But then for us too, like, our customers get so excited about the free drinks. Like, I can't even tell you how many emails RCX Inbox gets where people are like, so when I ordered, I read that I was going to get lacroix with my fridge and it hasn't arrived yet and I was just wondering when I was going to get it. They haven't gotten the fridge yet. Lacroix versus the fridge. And there are more people, I swear, that ask us where their drinks are than ask us where their fridge is.

That is so funny to me.

Like I found absolutely fascinating. So I love that like our customers are so excited about these drinks that they're getting. And then for the beverage brands, it's so nice to be able to introduce them to our customers who hopefully will then be their customers for life as well.

Yeah, it's, it's so interesting because I even think I found myself like that. Oh wow. Like super excited about the juices that come with the fridge. And I think it's one of those. The mindset of how that plays into the distribution for sometimes younger beverage brands. That's such an incredible distribution platform where now I'm just thinking out loud here, but as someone who has a Rocco fridge and I'm curious if you guys have thought of this, which is have you thought about the subscription element of, hey, I would love to subscribe to, you guys know, beverage, you know, what customers love. I could go to Erewhon or go to a place and get all the drinks I love. But this like variety pack that, you know, customers can subscribe to, maybe that's something you're already doing or you've thought of, but just kind of speaking out loud here. Kind of like, how do you think about that channel as a, as a marketing partnership effort that you guys can also build within the business?

Yeah. I mean, I can't even tell you how long the list is of things that we want to do with your friends, but I definitely think that's something that we're currently exploring and hope to be able to offer in the future is not just through our site system being able to show you what's in your fridge, but also helping you refill it. And maybe that is sending you, you know, Lacroix before you're going to run out of it. Because we know that you drink two cases of LaCroix a week and we know that you want it before you run out. Otherwise you go to your fridge at 2pm on a Tuesday and you have no more seltzer left and you want to kill your partner. Or maybe it's that we know that you love Orange soda. And we're like, hey, actually, we think you love Ollipop even more. Can we send you a case of Ollipop and help people kind of like, discover alternatives to the drinks that they love? Or maybe it's, you know, you pay a certain amount each month and you get unlimited drinks. That would be cool.

That's so cool.

Membership. Yeah. So we've thought.

I vote that one. I love that idea.

That one's my pick too. Probably one of the hardest to execute.

Yeah, for sure.

I think there's a lot of opportunity there that we're exploring.

Very cool. I love that. And just to pivot the conversation a little bit, I have such, just so much admiration for anyone that's building in hardware and something that I, when I interviewed the founder of whoop, we just talked about this idea of, you know, the quote, like, hardware is hard. And I want to go back to, like, pre product being out there. Like, what were some of the yearly challenges or learnings that you and your partner discovered that maybe you weren't expecting when trying to develop this new, you know, revolutionary smart fridge that is, you know, unlike anything that the market has seen before?

Yeah. I make jokes all the time with my co founder, who is the hardware expert. I'm like, you know, Sam, you could have launched a shampoo brand. You could have come up with, like, nail polish, even. Even a drink. And I was like, and you decided to do a fridge? Since it was obviously his idea before I joined him, which I think was probably the hardest thing that he could have chosen to want to make, which also made it probably the most exciting challenge for him. But it definitely took a lot longer than it would if you were launching something else. But for us, it was worth it to spend the many years developing the product before we had launched it to make sure that there were aspects of it that you couldn't find anywhere else that we had, you know, the best possible parts, that our compressor was the quietest, that the curves on the edges of our fridge were, you know, melded in such a way that they looked softer than, like, your average, very hard, you know, fridge. The. The edges actually came up on the top of the fridge so you can store bottles without feeling like they're going to slide off. And all of those kind of decisions that we made along the way that, you know, truly, I think, delayed the fridge probably two years. It was like the original launch day was probably two years before we were worth it. And I think, you know, we saw those investments pay out so hard. Yes. But Also, you know, harder to make and harder to copy. And not as many fridges that will ever probably look like ours just because of how much unique detailing and design went into it.

Absolutely. No, that's, that's so great to hear. And when you say the, you know, the two year delay, maybe just to pinpoint it, when it, when you got involved and partnered up with your co founder, when exactly was that? And talk to me about the decision that led to that. As someone that's worked with many successful brands being early in these specific teams, like, what led to you saying, you know what, I'm gonna make this jump and I'm just gonna go for it?

Yeah. Well, I had met Sam when I was renovating one of my homes, and I had probably spent $20,000 on appliances at that point. I had gutted two kitchens, had to put new washer and dryers in both homes. And Sam had asked me, he was like, so what brand fridge did you buy? And I was like, I have no idea. I don't know what brand fridge I bought. Actually, I can't even remember. And that's something that I spent a lot of money on and I couldn't remember the brand. And that's when I realized what a huge opportunity there was where people have no loyalty, no love, no admiration for the brands that they're buying their appliances from. And there's so many other products where you ask me for a recommendation on something and I can't wait to gush and like tell you about the new sauna lamp I bought. That's like right next to me. But when it comes to my fridge, I couldn't even tell you. And I was really excited about building a brand in a category where brands just didn't exist. And when I had renovated both homes, I also didn't put in a drinks fridge. It like, didn't even cross my mind. I didn't want a wine fridge. Drinks fridges were like pretty rare and they like looked really bulky and ugly. And so I just knew that from a product perspective too, there was a huge opportunity because nothing on the market existed that I would have wanted to buy and that I thought a lot of people who were more design forward would want to buy. And so that's like kind of what had tipped me over the edge. And that was a few years prior to us launching.

Got it. So great to hear. And I really do think just when it comes to the. I know when I talk about hardware, you say you reference your partner, but the design itself, how many iterations and changes did you and the team go through? And I want to also lean into, like, advice to maybe someone who's out there that may be wanting to build something that requires, like, a heavy amount of design to really make it unique. Like, what did you learn through these. The design process to make it so unique? And how many iterations did you and the team go through?

Yeah, many. When I first met Sam, he. He actually, like, he had a prototype of something. It was very far from what it looks like today, but I, like, walked in and I saw this prototype, and I was like, sam, this looks like a robot that's gonna, like, walk out of this house. It was like, the legs were super tall, and it was like, truly looked like. Like, it was like a little body on, like, really tall, like stilts. And so, like, even the, like, height of the legs, how thick they were, the fact that they disc bases, like, all of that was things that we had played around with over time. Putting a tray on top of it, even, like, small design decisions, I feel like, really did make a big impact. And for us, I think we wanted a design that had a few unique key features that if you saw it, you would know it was a Rocco fridge. And so that for us at the time was, you know, our readed glass. And, like, the fact that it's wavy and refracts light in a certain way. It was the curves of the fridge, which really, most fridges are not curved. It was like. Like putting a fridge on legs like that. And so we kind of identified these key design attributes that we wanted to make sure felt uniquely us. And then from there, it was also trying to make a fridge that I think enough people would also want to put in their homes and feel like it matched their design style. I didn't want to make it feel like, too mid century, too postmodern. Even though, like, maybe those are my design preferences. I wanted somebody who had an ultra modern home or a super retro home to also feel like it fit in. And that's something that I've been really proud of, that, you know, the people who send us photos of the fridge in their home, they look completely different. They're like. They span the gamut of home style.

Absolutely.

That's actually, like, exciting to me versus feeling like, oh, well, maybe that home is off brand or something. To me, there is no home.

Yeah.

Like, if you feel like this matches your style, great. I'm thrilled.

Yeah. That's so great to hear. And I. I personally am not the, you know, the interior designer that has all the. All the experience. But I remember showing it to my fiance, Jacqueline, and very similar conversation of, you know, we're always thinking about changing the style or, like, the interior design. And she was just saying, wow, like, this fits in so many elements of if. If we change it here, if we change it there. So it's cool to think that, you know, you guys thought through all of those, the process of, like, how this fits in different interiors. So very cool to hear.

Yeah.

When it comes to your background in marketing, Elise Casper, Bring me back to the early days of what initially inspired you to get into the world of business and work with, like, marketing specifically. And kind of take us back to the early days of, like, college days. What was your career goals or what were some of the early thoughts that you had when going about building your career and getting into the road of business and marketing?

Yeah, I actually wanted to be an artist. So I spent a summer, my junior year of high school at Pratt, and I got there, and everybody else was like, 11 times better than me. I was like, oh, I can't even, like, hold a pencil, apparently the correct way compared to all of these people who are so talented. And so I realized through that summer that maybe there was a way for me to still do something that felt artful and merge that with something that maybe I was a little bit better at, that required a little bit less talent, which was. Was advertising. I was like, okay, advertising is kind of this marriage of art and science and business, but still, like, has some element of creativity that I think would still make me happy. So I major in advertising. I don't know how, as a college student, I decided I wanted to work in advertising. It feels, like, so specific, but I went to the School of Journalism Mass Communication at UNC and then had many internships at advertising agencies like BBDO and graduated and had worked at ad agencies. And I was working on these big campaigns like the Frito Lay Do Us a flavor campaign, where you submitted a chip flavor, like Buffalo Mac and Cheese. And then they would make it at the end of the. At the end of the program, like, my year, I think it was like a cappuccino chip one.

Oh, man.

Like, I love coffee. I can't go a day without drinking coffee. And the chip is absolutely disgusting.

That's hilarious.

And I, you know, I was working on this program, and at the same time, I had a friend who was launching a startup. He was a competitor to Time Hop. It basically resurfaced. Memories, old memories. And I was helping him on the Side and we were doing, like, really scrappy things. Like, we would tweet memories at celebrities, and they would retweet them, and we would watch how that would affect app downloads. And I was like, seeing, like, that day app downloads would change. And like, the Frito Lay campaign I was working on, it was like a year and a half. And they'd be like, so we're reading out the metrics from this campaign. And I was like, okay, so, like, I won't even be here to figure out whether or not my work was successful.

Yeah.

And so it just made me realize, like, I love working for early stage companies. I love that aspect of, like, building and really seeing the effects of your work. And so I turned my resume into a bedtime story at the time. And I cold emailed Casper, and that was my first job within the startup space.

And I was so incredible.

It was a really bad bedtime story. I'm like, why did you guys hire me? Kinko's, which I think still existed at the time.

Oh, my gosh.

And, yeah, I worked at Casper for three years, and at the time, you know, everybody was launching a mattress startup. It was, you know, easier to put together layers of foam than it was maybe some of the other categories at the time. And Castro's dealing with a million knockoffs. And so my job was to really build the brand around the product and help people sleep in ways beyond just the product and the mattress. And so I was doing things like creating an insomnia chatbot that you could talk to between midnight and 5am Otherwise I would tell you it was busy working and you should be too. Or we made a website at the time where you could make it look like you were out by taking a video of another video. Like, it would be like, ca abs, like at night or like a rock concert. And we called it Late Night Snack Late Night Snap Hacks. And it was for snacks.

Yeah, yeah.

And so it would make it look like you were out when really you were in bed getting sleep. And we did a lot of that kind of, you know, guerrilla marketing where the goal was just, you know, get people to share it, get people to talk about it, get people to fall in love with their mattress and just build a brand that was really different at the time than anything else that the mattress industry was really seeing. And so that's when I, you know, really fell in love with building early stage companies that had a brand, had a point of view, were interested in doing something different. And then I went to Billie, the women's razor brand, where I was one of the first employees and Billie was the first women's razor brand to ever show body hair. Before that, women were just shaving smooth skin in razor ads. And so that was just another way that we were kind of doing things differently. And I spent many years at Billi. They ended up getting acquired by Edgewell. And that's when I decided, okay, I've done this twice for companies where I've worked there for a while. They've reached the holy land of getting acquired. And now I kind of want to take all the learnings from these incredible founders and do it for myself.

That's so cool to hear and congrats on all that. I love hearing the stories of not only founders, but just how the application of what you were maybe doing at Casper and then at Billy, and just seeing it now, it's so evident that the product that you have built today and the company and the brand, it's, you know, like the always. The people always say, like, oh, the ten year overnight success. Right. In terms of just the ability to launch a brand and a product like you and the team have, it speaks volumes just given your background and the track record. So congrats on that, by the way, and it's so cool to hear and very inspiring if you, if you could pinpoint maybe like one or two marketing tactics that you learned through those two journeys of your career and how you've applied them to Rocco. Like, what were, what would be some of those tactics that you'd recommend founders to really think through if maybe they aren't already doing that in their early stages of their brand?

Yeah, I think it's number one thinking about what is the point of view that your brand has that goes beyond the product. And so, you know, at Casper, that was how can we help people sleep beyond just the mattress? And at Billi, that was thinking, what are the ways that we can help support and champion women? And for me, at Rocco, it's obviously, you know, a fridge you're putting in your living room. And to me that translates to basically like a little mini bar that you're putting in your living room. And it should inspire you to want to have people over more often. It's this piece of furniture that looks really nice that, you know, you want to show off, that holds all these drinks that now you can share with your friends and family. And so we made the mission of Rocco about inspiring more quality time and getting people to have more celebrations. And I think that, you know, everybody's heard the Stats that we are, like the antisocial generation, that there's a huge loneliness epidemic, that we all sit at home in front of our laptops like we are right now, and we don't actually spend time with each other, and it's killing us, and it's the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And I am actually a huge introvert. Like, if it was up to me, and I didn't actually, like, work against my own human nature, I would just be sitting here in front of my laptop all the time. And so it was really important to me to, like, you know, take the mission seriously, even myself, and apply it and invite more people over and spend more time with my friends and play a board game and learn Settlers of Catan, which I'm now addicted to. And I'm a huge nerd. And I think that that was something that I wanted to make sure that we did with Rocco, that I was able to do at some of the previous startups that I had worked for. And so, you know, when we work with creators, we ask them, you know, what is something that you can celebrate now that you're getting the fridge that you might not have thrown a party for before, but that you can invite people over and have them have a drink at your home? And maybe it was that you froze your eggs or you started a new job, or you sold a. A house, or you bought a new house for the purposes of Airbnb, you're not even going to live in it, but it's still a moment in time that you want to celebrate. And it's all about those kind of, like, small celebrations versus, like, these big occasions that we actually, like, usually don't even host at home anyways. Like, you get married, you have a baby shower, but, like, what are all the things in between? And, like, what if you also never get married or never have a baby? There are other things that you should be celebrating. So that's something that I've wanted to build into the brand and we've started doing in small ways and we'll kind of continue to do. And, um, so that's the first thing I think that I kind of learned that was important and is something that I couldn't have built a brand without. Like, if I was just kind of, you know, selling toothpaste, you know, I don't know how I would do it, truthfully. It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be something I don't think I'd be successful in. So kind of having a point of view and a lifestyle and really inspiring people beyond just, you know, purchasing something is what's always been kind of important to me and I think makes the work a lot more fun. So I always recommend that people make sure that they have a product and brand where they can do that. And I think the second thing is it's kind of easy when you're launching a brand to fall into the trap of like, okay, so we're going to put up a Shopify site and we're going to run some meta ads. And everyone says you can get to the first 20 million in revenue just through meta. Don't spend a dime anywhere else. Don't even think about exploring other channels or doing any kind of brand marketing. You can get to 20 million, trust me. And I don't believe that. And I think that kind of the foundation that we've set for by working with people in the food and beverage industry and doing our partnerships and trying to reach people in different ways beyond just Instagram ads has been really successful for us. And that word of mouth that we've been able to generate and just kind of a lot of the organic buzz has been huge for us. And so I always encourage people to think beyond the traditional playbook of just throw up the Shopify site, run some meta ads, get to, you know, a checkpoint in time, and then, you know, know, hire somebody and you can think about all the rest of the stuff. It's like, no, that stuff actually is important from day one.

Yeah, no, it's. I love everything you just said and even, like, speaking on the, like, the perspective of the brand. And one thing I wanted to point out is, I know in the Instagram bio of Rocco, it says, sold out seven times back in stock. Talk to me about, like, these. When. When you and the. You guys. I want to say, like, emphasize that, but selling out seven times, like, what. What does that look like? And. And like, talk to me about, you know, like, why the brand may highlight that on social. Because I think it's. It's something that I'm like, as a consumer, when I saw it, I was like, oh, wow. Like, that's so epic. Like, to know that people love it. You see the brand, you're like, wow. Like, this is. It's something that is. People obviously love and care about.

Yeah. And I mean, it comes with pros and cons, I'll be honest. And it started because, truthfully, before launch, you know, me and my co founder were talking like, okay, how much inventory do we get? And I was like, look, Sam, I want to set expectations here. Nobody is buying a 1500 fridge day one. They're going to need to, like, come to the website 15 times. They're going to need to talk to their partners. They're going to need to measure, they're going to need to think about it. They're going to need to see a review on YouTube. Like, month one. Don't even think that we're going to sell more than like, two fridges to, like, probably our friends and family. And I was wrong, and I'm happy I was wrong, obviously. But because of that, we had an inventory, inventory shortage from. For six months, nine months. And so we had a lot of people that were asking, and at this point, they were still asking, where's my fridge? Vs where are my free drinks? Asking, where's my fridge? And so we started problem to have. Good problem to have, I guess.

Yeah.

But we started messaging, you know, ships by dates and different, like trying to, you know, parse fridges into batches so that we would understand, like, okay, if you order a fridge during these dates, this is when you're going to get it. And just kind of level set expectations with everybody. Because we were just, you know, working, working as hard as we could to get more fridges in stock. And so it did become something that, you know, people were excited about. They felt like as soon as they got their fridge, they were getting it before other people because they knew people were still waiting and they had friends who had ordered at this date and they were going to get it in like two months, but they got theirs today. And so it kind of became a point of pride for people to be like, oh, I have a Rocco fridge. But, like, not a lot of people do. And I was a doctor. And so you can come over and see mine if you want, but you're not going to have yours for a few months, I heard.

Yeah.

And so that's kind of like, you know, how it became part of the brand and you opened up. Always get people on Instagram who are like, well, you know, if you had a supply chain manager, you should fire them. And it's like, no, I don't have a supply chain manager. We launched like yesterday. We had a supply chain. Yeah, you're right. We'd probably fire them. But, like, also, we're a startup and there's like three of us and no one is the supply chain.

Yeah. Oh, my God. It's so funny sometimes, like the, the disconnects and it's, it's like, yeah, like people. Yeah, like, you're talking to the person that's this and that. You're wearing five hats. So I, I love you gotta love that, right? The Instagram got comments people would write.

Into us and they'd be like, so I know I'm talking to the customer service team, but I want you to know that if you have a supply chain manager, they should be fired. And it's like, actually I'm the customer service team and I'm also the supply chain manager and I've never bought this before. So we under order.

Yeah. And wow, that's. I mean that again, like, that's such a, a great problem to have like demand. And I mean I'm sure it's obviously you. You learn so much through that process. When it comes to at least I want to speak through my experience and I want to confirm if you guys do this for every delivery. But when I received mine, there's this level of like white glove service that the refrigerator comes with is that for every order, just before we dive in.

You can opt into it so we offer free delivery where they'll drop it at your door or you can upgrade to get the white glove delivery.

Got it. And I was so gracious to have the white glove delivery. And I think just as a product like a Rocco free fridge, it's so important and just seamless because obviously it's a big beautiful refrigerator and it obviously would be very challenging to move just one person and having that optionality for that. The white glove delivery I think is, it's a really great thing and I believe it just, it helps it go from it's about to be here to the instantly being set up that I think adds to the experience as a customer myself and, and I just want to say kudos to you and the team for obviously making that like such a focus point in terms of like the delivery because I think it again, it really does speak volumes to the experience on that.

Yes. And I think that from day one, being able to offer white glove was so important to us because we had known that these materials that we chose, I think, you know, our steel is like three times thicker than anything else on the market and we use metal shelving and those things are all super heavy. And so it's a lot heavier than a traditional beverage fridge or wine fridge. And so we knew that was going to be tricky for people to move on their own, especially if they live alone. And so being able to offer a way for them to get it through their door set up, they don't have to worry about anything was just something that was always important.

Yeah. And was that the case since day one for the brand of having that white glove?

Yeah, I think it was maybe month two we had launched it, but yeah, it's, it's been around for a while.

That's great. That's awesome to hear. When it comes to the, you know, you talk about this idea of like brand and the point of view. I wanted to go back to that for a moment when building brands and I'm curious about the Rocco journey. And you talk about obviously having the point of view of hosting and like celebrating. Has the point of view changed at all since the early inception of the, like the POV that you and the brand and the team wanted to build? Or how do you think about adding to a point of view on a brand from your experience working with other brands, but also go to Rocco into the future of what the brand will become?

Yeah, I think, you know, at first when I was thinking about the brand and the mission, it was a lot about just hosting in general. And it was based off of the, you know, facts that again, like we all read loneliness epidemic, we're antisocial, we need to spend more time with people. And so I was like, well, just, you know, invite people over more often. And that was something that kind of became like a little bit of a blanket statement and was something that we always tried to encourage people to do. But since then I've tried to build on that a little bit and think, well, how can I actually like inspire people to do that in a more meaningful way or a more tangible way? Like how can I actually like get people to think about this in more of their day to day. And that's where the idea for some of these like mini celebrations came from. Where we want people to actually like take the time to think about the milestones they might not have celebrated in the past and use having a fridge and wanting to invite people over as an excuse to actually like take the time to celebrate those things. And so I think that's like kind of one iteration of how the mission has gotten more specific and evolved. And you know, we'll probably do that in other ways, like trying to just get people to think about hosting. Yeah, in, in a non traditional sense because it doesn't always have to be a quote unquote dinner party or it doesn't always have to be for somebody's birthday. There's so many reasons why you might want to invite people over and spend, spend time with them.

Yeah, absolutely. I have a couple More questions. Elise, before we nearly wrap up here. And I wanted to spend some time on the actual technology itself in terms of some of the aspects that the Roco fridge has that, you know, if people haven't gone to the site yet, that we can sort of speak on in terms of, you know, the cooling temperatures, the app itself, all the things that come with like this smart fridge that obviously is a huge part of the brand. And you know, it's not just a traditional refrigerator, but it has that smart attributes to it. I'd love for you to go kind of just like a pinpoint some of the key attributes that are important to, to you, the brand, obviously, what make the fridge so special. And yeah, we'd love to dive in there.

Yeah. So there's a few things. One is that it's a dual temperature zone fridge. So for people like me, where my husband drinks wine and I drink soda, he's able to keep his wine at a slightly higher temperature than I want my ice cold soda. And you can set the temperature from the app so either of us could adjust it based on what we're putting in the fridge. The second is that there's three cool down modes. So sometimes we'll come home for the grocery store, everything will be warm, we'll be having people over in an hour and we can set a cool down mode called party mode, where it cools everything down really quickly. And then other times it'll just be, you know, we haven't put a new drink in there in a while, we're just taking, taking. And so that's where we set quiet mode. And so it just kind of maintains the fridge temperature, but as quiet as, as possible and so you don't even hear it. And so that was something that was important to us, like giving people control over the compressor and the noise. And then lastly, we have the sight system built in so every time you open and close a rack in your fridge, it scans what's inside and you can then see on the app what's in your fridge. And the idea with that is that over time you'll be able to, you know, track what drinks you like and what you don't like, potentially even refill your fridge. And, you know, we're hoping to build out that technology quite a bit more.

That's awesome to hear and I'm excited as I've been getting it stocked up, just. Yeah. To really find for us. And over here and my fiance and I, we do a lot of hosting and I think it's one of those Things where I always love having the unique beverage or, you know, some type of non alcoholic brand that is new and fresh. And I think the app is like, if you're out and heading home, you can kind of see what's in your refrigerator. You can show your friends, oh, check this out. I think, like the modernized version of that is. It's so unique and it's so cool, and I'm excited to really start utilizing that in my life and the social spaces. So very cool to hear.

Yeah.

Two more questions before we wrap up. When you think about the future of Rocco and really the, you know, the whole aspect of appliances, I'd love to dive into. What excites you the most when you think about the future of the refrigerator, the brand, and everything that you're building overall? All.

Yeah, I think it's to make everything in the home feel nice and spark joy and just be things that bring you happiness and make your home feel warm and inviting and like, you walk in and gives you a big hug. And I think that we're kind of getting there from a design perspective as a whole with furniture and appliances and everything that you kind of keep in your home. And I'm excited that Rocco can kind of contribute to that and be one thing in your home that looks nicer than it might have been looked, you know, 10 years ago, maybe even, I guess, two years ago before we launched. And so that's like, one thing that really does excite me within the furniture space and the appliance space is just kind of having everything feel like it's, you know, reflective of your own design point of view and your own design aesthetic and something that just, you know, brings you happiness. Because we all spend more time at home than unfortunately, we would probably like. And so making sure that you have a space that, you know, just feels like warm and comforting and a place you actually want to be, I think is important.

Absolutely. And last but not least, if you could go back in time to your younger self, what would be the biggest piece of advice you give yourself regarding business or personal, but especially in terms of the business itself and the brand overall, what would that advice be and why?

I think it would be to do things less perfectly. Like, I think that especially as a founder or an entrepreneur, sometimes we get caught up in, like, thinking everything needs to be perfect before it leaves the building, the theoretical building. And I've, over time, forced myself to accept good enough because I think good enough can still be great and good enough can still be, like, almost perfect. And so you know, like, one of the things that I made sure we did with Rocco was we don't even have a brand book. It's like, I'm not going to spend months working on a brand book. I want the brand to be in the world. I want to see how people enjoy it and interact with it. And then from there, you know, maybe we solidify our fonts and colors, but I think that it's really about kind of getting things out into the world and. And seeing how people react to them and not, you know, nitpicking everything that I do before it even, you know, gets the light of day.

Yeah, that's. That's so great to hear. Just get it out there and let the world out there get the perspective from. From the people and the customers. That's wonderful.

Yeah.

Well, Elise, before we wrap up, I just want to say again, and I've said it many times now, but huge congratulations to you and the team and getting the product to where it is today. It's something that I'm personally so excited to not only have here at my home now, but to just continue to see it show up in more places in the world. Friends, places, all the things that. That I know will soon be the case. And, yeah, with that being said before we wrap up, where's the best place for everyone listening or watching to learn more about Rocco and follow along your journey overall?

Probably our Instagram Rocco Fridge is our handle or our website, roccofridge.com love it.

And last but not least, thank you again so much, and I really appreciate your time today.

Lise, thank you for having me. This is so great.

Of course.