Anthony Katz - Founder of Hyperice on Building a $700M Recovery Brand

All right, welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Anthony Katz, the founder of Hyperice. Anthony, thank you so much for coming the show today.

Thanks for coming in.

So if you're watching right now and you're not listening, you can see we have the NormaTec boots on. This is something that I got to give a huge shout out to my producer, producer Diego on. He says, you know, why don't we do the show with the boots? You know, we walked in here, Anthony, and your team suggested we could do it. So first off, thank you so much for having us here today at the HQ down in Irvine.

It's good to get the full experience when you come.

Yeah, man. So, I mean, I guess just to jump right off the bat, have you done an interview before in the NormaTec boots?

You know, every day that I come in the office, I do Normatec for about an hour, 45 minutes to an hour every night, no matter what. Like, the way I tell people is like, every day we take a shower and that's. That washes the outside of your body. And the NormaTec is like the shower for the inside of your body. So it's built into my routine and I never miss a day. When I go on the road, I take it and. But when I'm in the office, I usually do it at night before I go to bed. But on the days I play basketball, usually I'll get in for about a half hour to 45 minutes when I come in the office just to get like that extra pump in before the. Before the game.

Dude. Yeah. It's so great to hear. I mean, I've used the NormaTec boots a handful of times. I don't have a pair myself. But for people that may not know what Hyperice is, I mean, I know from the context of even speaking NormaTec, this is a company you guys acquired. Yeah, A couple of years back. Correct.

20.

20. 2020. Take us back, man. I mean, we're here at this beautiful hq and you know the founding story. You were a high school teacher. What was it in 2010? 2011.

What? Yeah, I was a basketball coach and a high school teacher from, you know, from the time I was done with college. And So I call like, 04 to about 2008. Yeah.

Wow. So, yeah, you guys have been that. This are, you know, 15 years now.

Yeah, I mean, we, you know, the company technically was founded 2010, but that just, you know, I had like a working prototype and a name for the company and sort of wanted to launch, like, the R and D to develop the first product. So, you know, I am torn between saying the company was founded in 2010, but we really kind of started in 2012 as a commercial, you know, commercializing the product. But yeah, 2010 was like the kind of the, the this really goes back to the summer of 09 was sort of like the planting the seeds of it, but I don't have an exact date but like, let's call it like, you know, as early as summer of 09, as late as 2012 when we commercialized. But that was sort of the range that, you know how long we've been at it and you know, crazy to think it's like 14 years ago now.

Insane. It's absolutely insane. And before we really dive into the backstory, I mean, just to give context to the viewers and listeners, if they don't know you guys are the go to partner from a recovery standpoint from, for brands like the NBA and the NFL, PGA Tour, a handful of other brands that I know I didn't mention here. Talk about where the company is today before we dive into the backstory of how we got here.

Yeah. So the one thing people always ask like, okay, so what, like what is high price? And you know, the, you know, people say, oh, you guys are a recovery brand. What's recovery brand? Or what's recovery technology? And so recovery has just become a catch all term. And it implies in the literal definition of like, okay, well like you do some sort of, you know, you know, competition or training or workout and then like your body needs to recover after. And it's sort of like a misnomer because like that just indicates that like you would use the products for like the post. And if that's just not really what our products are, our products touch the individual like at all different like moments throughout the day in that sort of rhythm of training or competition or whatever. Like, so for the athlete, for example, an athlete will come and do like before they even get to the arena or the court or the pitch, they're doing some like kind of stuff throughout the day to like, kind of get their body like in sort of like the pre, pre warmup. And then there's like the next phase which is like, okay, they'll get to the arena and then they'll start doing some basic soft tissue or activation stuff. That's like the pre warm up. And then like you have like your actual warmup. And sometimes our products will be using that maybe like people wearing a venom during that time. Yeah, then you have like the Competition. And our products are used during game. When like players come out of the game, you'll see it like on the sidelines of NBA and NFL. Like when guys come out of the game and then you know, the post is like the recovery. So like directly after the game, potentially if someone is like trying to get ahead of it, they'll use product. And then you have the next day, which is sort of like the day after, which is sort of the body maintenance, which is like, hey, I might not even have a game. I'm not really recovering from the last one. I more just like there's a cadence and a rhythm to like that that the athletes work their routine into. And so then there's a treatment phase which is like if someone does have like an injury or is some, some ailment, they'll be able to use our product. So like it's the pre. It's the recovery, it's the body maintenance, it's the treatment. So there's, and then there's like the travel, right? Like all athletes travel. Like right now the Olympics are about to start and every, you know, unless you were stationed in Paris, every athlete's going to go travel there. Well, like, traveling disrupts a lot of the body's sort of rhythm and, and breaks routine. And so we have to make our products portable. Like right now we're in the normatech Elites. You know, last week I was in Vegas. You know, every player in USA men's basketball got a set of Normatech elites. They already, eight of the 12 players already, I think already had one. But we gave them a specific pair for Paris because they were flying from, on the private plane from Vegas to Iceland and then to Abu Dhabi and that's where they are now. And then Abu Dhabi is going to go to London. So they're going to be on these like, really, really long flights. And so like giving them the ability to keep their body in peak condition, even battling sort of like the sort of the elements of travel. So to say that like we're a recovery brand is. Recovery just is like another word for just body care essentially. And so we need to make products that, that touch the athlete at all these different moments and so that we can. So athletes say like, hey, everything for my body, there's one brand I go to and they make everything I need.

That's incredible. And even to just speaking on the team usa, as you mentioned. So everyone got a pair of the, the boots we're wearing now.

Yeah, I mean, you know, we're, you know, it's nothing new to the players. I mean, yeah, they're using this in their training. But what we would want to say is that, you know, USA now is. Team USA is 12 players from, you know, it's not exactly 12 different teams because there's, there's actually three Celtics on the team. And so let's, let's call it eight different teams. Right? So those players all are coming in. They want to have the same rhythm and routine they have when they play for their teams. So we want to make sure that like Team USA has all the resources that they have that their NBA team would have. And so we support that because we're a part of the NBA and a lot of the players are either friends or investors or whatever. So yeah, it was just something we're like, hey, the travel is going to be pretty taxing and we want players bodies in as best condition as possible. Yeah. So. But that, but that. But this is the third Olympics that we've done something like that for. I remember when I first started 2012, the year we launched, all we had was the ice compression devices. And I had a relationship. Funny how things come full circle. I had a relationship with Nico Harrison, who's now the GM of the Dallas and president of the Dallas Mavericks. Back then he was executive for Nike Basketball and he knew a lot of the players were using the hyperrides really early on. He's like, hey, we should give a pair for every player on the team. So you're like, I went to, I went to Vegas in 2012. I remember, I remember the day we, we did some special USA Basketball stickers. So when we had one product and we did that for Team USA 2012, they won the gold medal. Then in 2016, we had more products at the time we had the Viper and we had the Hypersphere and we had the ice compression. So we did all three products. And then Nike made the backpack. And so we did that for the Olympics in 2016. I remember presenting to the men's and women's team. And then 2020, you couldn't do anything because it was the Olympics. It was the COVID Olympics. And then. And for this Olympics, it's the Nike shoe, which I'm sure we'll talk about later. I was just about to get in the vest. So it's a big full circle. This Olympics is a kind of a big full circle, full, full circle moment for the brand.

It's so incredible. And even, dude, just like speaking on the brand as someone that I grew up an athlete and obviously I. The Last couple years, I, I started running marathons. Diego over here, he's a professional bodybuilder. So I always try to stay active. And you know, as a consumer, like Hyperice, and I'm not just saying this because I love the products, but like, you guys are the top of the pyramid. Like the most incredible brand, not only in recovery, but all the things you mentioned. And when I received, I had, I got the knee product that you guys have and then the Venom 2. And I remember you saying on a different podcast, just the, the correlation between Hyperice and how you view Apple as a brand in the early days of being very product focused, you know, even just looking at the packaging here, right, like this, I don't, you know, these aren't just here to show the viewers, they check them out, but just to speak on them as well. Yeah, the packaging and opening it, the whole product experience as a consumer, when I opened it, it feels not only inspired by Apple, but just very product first. And it's a phenomenal experience. Like, talk to me about the brand correlation of how you view a company like Apple and how you've tried to incorporate some of that into the DNA of Hyperice.

Well, I mean, look, Apple, I would say Apple and Nike were my two biggest inspirations. And it's easy to sit here, you know, someone who's maybe younger and saying, oh, well, yeah, well, you're just picking like the two biggest brands. But I'm not. I'm actually going back to when I was a Kid in the 80s. My first computer I ever went on in, in school was, was a Mac. It was a Macintosh. And the reason why is because that was part of Apple's strategy in the 80s was that they were big in education. And so I just, like, my first impression of what a computer was was a Mac. And, and, and so, and then at the same time, in the 1980s, Nike was really establishing itself. They were sort of the counterculture brand, like underdogs, you know, like, you know, Converse was bigger, Adidas was bigger, Reebok was bigger. But Nike was sort of, you know, they brought so much culture into the brand. And like, when you're a kid to be inspired by, you know, you're very impressionable, right? And so like to see like these athletes and these storytelling moments around, big moments where it was like, you know, I remember like when Bo Jackson hit the home run of the all star game in 1989, and then like the Bonos commercial ran at a half inning. You're like, how did, like, it just Seemed like they had some magic to the brand.

Yeah.

Apple sort of, when Jobs left in the late 80s, actually kind of went away for a long time. And I mean, the great, like, for me, the inspiration was like, Jobs coming back to Apple. And so the first computer I ever had that ever went on in, like, first grade was a Mac. Then when I went to college, the Mac and the bubble Mac, we called it the imac. That was like, different color.

Different colored ones.

That was, that was, that. That was the beginning of the Apple comeback. Right. Because Jobs comes back in, like, 97. They launched that. 99. That's the year I went to college and I needed a new computer.

99.

Yeah. And I remember, like, you know, because, like, it was like the time where you, like, everyone had their own. Started having their own computer. Because that wasn't really common when I first started college, but when I, When I, When I went to school and I just remember being like, man, like, it was so intuitive. I just plugged it in and plugged the Internet, Ethernet cable in. It was like, wow. And like, the Internet was like, more new back then.

Yeah.

And just how simple and intuitive all the products were. And then I watched Apple go on the most amazing, like, rise of all time, where it went iPod in 2001, and then, you know, like, the upgrading all the MacBooks and all the, you know, the hardware and then the iPhone in 2007, which changed the world, and the iPad after that. And so what, so what, you're. You're always influenced by the things that made a big impression on you. And for me, like, I would say, like, niking Nike from the athlete, storytelling and the. And creating an aspirational brand around sport, which I loved. And I was an athlete. And then Apple around as I was a little bit older and I could understand the world a little bit better, understand that Apple created a brand that created a language of which we all are now so used to, like, products used to not have a language. They were just like, you know, they weren't as well thought through. And like Jobs and Johnny Ivan, that team at Apple, like, they elevated our sensibility about what a product is, how it should be presented, how it should be packaged. And I always say, in the history of the world, no one's ever said, oh, go get the product manual for the Apple product. Right? Because it just, it just, it just you, you turn it on, you get. It's intuitive. So we have, I would say, borrowed all of that philosophy from Apple on our products as far as, like, I want people to be able to get it and not have to open a manual. They should just be able to turn it on and figure it out. The design language should be simple, like the curves of certain, like, you know, shapes and, and the colorways and the, and the way we use topography, like, in our brand system. So it's all, you know, good artists borrow, great artists steal. And I have no, like, you know, don't feel any shame in that. Like, every person that's making hardware in the world right now is borrowing or stealing from Apple and not, not stealing from property. I'm just saying the philosophy and the approach. Every brand needs an identity and needs and their products have to have a language. And so we're really big on that.

Absolutely. It's. And you can feel it and, and see it. So it's, it's really cool to hear you speak on that. You know, I know we're talking about the Olympics and, you know, the product lines you had today. I want to go back in time. I know we were touching on it momentarily, but bring us back to the early days of having this idea. I know there's a story where you were able to bring some of the early product ideations to Kobe Bryant and you're really just getting a sense of like, hey, like, what is this product we're going to go build? What is this company we're going to go build? I know you've said, you know, you had the furthest thing from business experience, as you mentioned, you know, high school, basketball coach, teacher. What was your mindset when starting the company and how did you view this industry back then? Because obviously it's grown so much and so much has changed since you started in 2010. So bring us back to that young, younger Anthony, in terms of how you viewed the company and the culture of recovery, as you can call it back then.

Yeah, I mean, so when I started, I mean, there was no recovery brand. I mean, that was just the whole concept. Like, when I started, everything was all geared around training. So Nike bought spark in 2007 and they were running these campaigns on. And everything is about training. If you wanted to, like, you know, if you wanted to get better or if you wanted competitive, it was all training, training. So there wasn't really a recovery industry. So, yeah, it really was a personal thing for me. Like, I, to this day play basketball twice a week. I was playing at that time and I came out of the 90s when, like, everything was, like, lifting and playing basketball. And so, like, those are two things are really hard in Your body. And when I hit about 30, 31 years old, my body just, like, started to get, like. I started to get, like, lower back pain. I started my. Like, I was a little bit sore after I play, and I'm like, gosh, this kind of sucks. Like, I hope this is not going to be. Yeah. You know, the rest of my life. And so I started asking the question, like, what do you. How are pro. Like, how these NBA players playing 82 games a year and, like, you know, like, they must be doing something, like, different. Like, well, I wonder what, you know, is there. Is there any sort of, like, secret that they have? And so one of the things that was very noticeable is like, well, athletes ice. And that was like, you know, like this. Like, you'd always see it. Like, you'd watch ESPN and they would, like, show, like, NBA players after the games are all wearing, like, you know, like, ice bags. Strapped.

Yeah, tape strapped.

And I'm like. I'm like, okay, well, icing that, like something I could start doing. And so I made. I didn't want to, like, I didn't have plastic bags and all the rap. I'm like, well, what if I could make, like, a reusable product? And at the time, I was living in Australia and my wife was playing professional basketball down there, and all the rugby players would use these, like, medical ice bags because they were reusable. And I'm like, oh, that's like, you know, just because they don't want it. Like, in America, we just, like, fill a plastic bag, wrap it, throw it away, do it the next day. I'm like, so it's like, well, if you do it 100 times a year, you're throwing away, like, you got two legs, you're doing 400 bags.

Yeah.

A year. And so I was like, well, what if I couldn't commit with something that's like, more reusable? So there was, you know, the medical ice bag. I'm like, what if I took that and if I compress it with, like, neoprene? Because neoprene. I grew up, like, wearing wetsuits in the wintertime, and like, they, like, really compress to your body. So I'm like, I just came up with this art project for to wear to make knee eyes. And I started just making it for myself. That's really what it was. It wasn't a business. It was just like my own art project.

And at the time, during this phase of more so discoverability, that's when you're working at, you know, you're yeah, I'm still a teacher. And still a teacher. This is something you're doing.

You're.

Are you married at the time or.

I am. And I, and I was. And I had come back from Australia waiting to go back to, to my teaching job, and so, But I, I, I made these like, sort of as an art project. And a friend of mine who was a guy that I, his name's Ryan Bicelli, he's a coach at San Diego State now. We co coached together and he, he had joined the UC Irvine staff. And that's where Kobe did all his workouts. And he was responsible for letting Kobe in the gym putting him do his workouts. And then I wore my. So I, so I, One of the places I used to play pickup basketball was UC Irvine. Okay. And so I wore my, I, I played my games and after I put them on, and he goes, hey, where'd you get those? I'm like, I just made them. He goes, he goes, he says this too? No, no, no. My friend Ryan, because he goes, one of my jobs is I gotta fill Kobe's ice bags every time, and I gotta, like, time. And he wants them done the certain way, and I always mess it up. And he's like, he's like, could you like, make me two of those? Those look really easy. Wow. And I'm like, yeah, sure. And so I just thought I was gonna make them. So I went back to the wet suit factory that was like, this guy was completely annoyed that this, like, guy was going in there. Just like, I was hand cutting or he was hand cutting stuff for me. It was like I was literally just paying him cash to, like, just do me these, like, favors that were kind of more of a nuisance. And so I made two more, and I went to a sticker factory. I put his logos on him and I thought I was just going to give it to him. And Ryan's like, hey. He's like, this is really weird because he never wants to meet anyone, but he wants you to give it to him because he wants you to explain it to him.

Wow.

So I went, and this is 2010. This is August 1, 2009.

2009.

And so, so his main feedback was he goes, hey, I like this idea because I ice all the time and I'm constantly throwing bags away and stuff. He's like, he's like, I like this idea of having something that I could do all the time. And so he goes, let me use it for two weeks and I'll give you some feedback. So, like, two weeks later, sure enough, like, I get a call. He's like, hey, he wants to see you again. And he gave me in person feedback, and it was like, wow, okay, so this is what's wrong with it. He goes, I like that it gets really tight, but then after a while, it gets. The air fills up and it slides down. So he's giving me all this stuff, and I'm like, he's giving me all this feedback as if I have, like, the capability to, like, make it any different. Which I did it. Yeah.

Even just to interject. Right. Just. Yeah. A lot of young or even mature entrepreneurs are watching this show, and you're at this time of. You have this idea you're in the presence of someone like Kobe Bryant. Yeah. What's your mind saying to yourself back then? Are you like, hey, wow, I have, like. What's. What is your mind saying in terms of, whoa, I need to go raise capital for this? Is this product validation or is it more just like, hey, taking a step by step, I try to, like, block.

That out as far as, like, I mean, you can't be around people like that and just be like, I always joke, like, I don't ask all the athletes I met over the years. I think I have, like, a picture with, like, two of them because I never ask. And, like, you know, I don't. I try to, you know, if I'm going to be taken seriously. Like, I'm trying to enhance their craft.

Yep.

And I don't want, you know, I take the fan of me kind of goes away. The, like, my knowledge of who they are in their sport and what the demands of the game are for them is important. But I try to, like, not, like, with. With. I remember with Kobe, even though it was like, hey, I was meeting someone that I, you know, I grew up a huge Laker fan, and I had watched all his games, and we were about the same age, but I never wanted to make it where, I don't know. You. You kind of have to have a certain approach where, like, you're gonna get their respect.

And if you.

And if you're too much of just, like a fanboy, they're just gonna be like, it's just to put a turn off. So my. My thing was like, hey, I made this. I know you ice every day. And I think that this is a better way to do it, and I want to. And if there's ways you think I can make it better, let me know. So that was kind of my approach. And so he Gave me this feedback, and I was like, okay, I don't have the resources to do this on my own. So now I gotta go find someone who could help me on the manufacturing side, because I could do. Like, I had a good. I had a vision in my head of how I wanted to be, but I needed the execution. And so I was able to find a partner, even though it was during the recession, because the 09 recession was really bad, because everyone talks about the 08 financial collapse, but the recession really, like, that lasted all the way through 2009. So there wasn't a lot of people that were wanting to, like, take a phone call from a guy with no website, no, you know, history. But I was able to find someone who helped me source manufacturing. And basically what Kobe told me the second time was he goes, hey, I like this idea, but it's like, not a finished product. But if you could make. If you can make what I'm telling you, if you can make the improvements, he's like, like, you're 80% of the way there. If you can make these 20 refinements, I'll wear that. Like, like, like, I would wear it. And so that is when I had the idea for, like, well, maybe I. Maybe I could turn this into a business.

Yeah.

Because at first it wasn't a business. You know, that's kind of what the Kobe story was, was that it was him saying, like, validating that, like, hey, I like your idea, but it just needs refinement. It needs to be like a real product, not an art project. And. But he's like, but if you get it there, like, I'm in. You know, I'll, like, I'll wear it. And so that was sort of like, you know, it was sort of like, if you build it, he will come.

Yeah.

You know, and so that was sort of the challenge that we were faced with. And so that's what gave me the idea to be like, hey, I'm going to need to, like, start a business, and it can't be just me.

Yeah. I mean, even just hearing that story is incredible. You know, Kobe Bryant's giving you product feedback, telling you, hey, if you build it, I will come for this and wear it from that moment, you know, and one of my favorite books is Peter Thiel. Zero to one is like creating that real innovative innovation, progress within the business with an idea. When you take that step, and you know what I guess you could call what entrepreneurs call that leap of faith. You jump off, you're growing your wings on the way Down. What were some of the first courses of action that you took? Because you're in a business where, you know, in this modern age, there's so many different types of business you can start. You pick hardware, obviously. You know, this is a hard business to get right. It takes a lot of capital, etc. So what were some of the early decisions you made and when it comes to manufacturing partners, investors, and how did you think about the business landscape at the beginning?

Well, you make decisions given the information you have available to you at the time. And I just didn't know anything at the time, so I was as green as you could be. I mean, I came out of, you know, education where it's. It's just. It's just not business. It's not transactional. Like, there's no transactions really in education, you know. And so, so there's. And, and I also, I wasn't really that interested in business growing up. I didn't really like, study like business models or anything like that. Like, my interest in business more was in the arts of like, branding and how brands are presented in photography and you know, like, you know, I said like growing up and, and like, I think I had an intuition for how brands communicated, but it really wasn't in the nuts and bolts of like, like manufacturing and like, you know, in. In the sort of the nuts and bolts of business. And so like, I didn't really have like, I was literally going to have to learn on the fly essentially because I had this big deficit of knowledge, but.

And you're solo founder.

Yeah.

So I mean, that. That also is a whole other just.

Yeah, I, like, I didn't have active. I don't come from an entrepreneurial family. Like, my dad worked for the Same company for 35 years. He was an engineer and like, was a company man. But like, no, don't really have, you know, it's not like I grew up around it. I mean, I grew up around in my. In my neighborhood. You know, like, Jim Gennard founded Oakley out of my neighborhood.

Oh, wow.

And so I grew up two streets away and used to see him in his garage making great BMX grips and. Wow. So. So I. It was around it. But I never, you know, I think a big moment in the culture for my generation, you know, I'm a Gen Xer is like, if you would have thought like, oh, that person has their own business. Well, when I was growing up, that meant that they had like a physical brick and mortar store that they sold something at.

Yeah.

Or like, you know, like oh, like, you know, the surf and skate industry was like central to like this area. Right. So like, oh, that guy, you know, he started. You know, you always heard about the guys who started Volklam or the guys used to. Whatever.

Yeah.

And so the thing that really changed that paradigm to me was when I was in college and all the kids were downloading Napster and we heard about this guy. Wait, did you hear this thing was. This was invented by a 19 year old in his dorm room named Sean Parker. And I was thinking like, wow, like, but is it a bit like it was free? Like how does it even work? Like is it a business? Like just the idea that there could be entrepreneurs that like existed in this like digital paradigm.

Yeah.

And so it got this like to me, like before there was Mark Zuckerberg, there was Sean Parker and obviously, you know, he's one of the co founders of Facebook Tooth or sort of early in Facebook, but Zuckerberg was like the next. And then like you had like this whole generation of, of people that, that grew up in the, in a much different world to what an entrepreneur could be. Because an entrepreneur used to be like you go back to like in the 70s, like Steve Jobs starting Apple out of a garage. Yeah. There's like a physical location in business.

And like Steve Wozniak just hacked.

Yeah. So. So entrepreneurship has taken on a much different like you know, then you hear about people that, oh, this guy, you know, the kid that, you know developed WhatsApp I think was. Maybe it's Austrian. I can't remember where it was from. Yeah.

But even, there's even something I told my buddy recently, the founder of Telegram, there's like a 30 person engineering team and you know, they have billions of users. And it's just you even see that with companies like X. Right. In terms of like their downsizing team and like the efficiencies at place in this modern world.

It's. Yeah.

So not just a whole different area.

Yeah. So. So if you would have told. Well, first of all, I don't even think I even knew what the word entrepreneur meant when I started. I price and it was more like, hey, like I think that trying to create a great product, I was very influenced also. Like. So like I always say like Nike and Apple, like philosophically and. But the in that moment I remember Beats by Dre was really emerging brand and the whole idea of like they gave the headphones to the USA basketball team in 2008 and they got off the plane and they were wearing them and everyone's like, whoa, what are these headphones? And so my thing was like, wait a minute. Like, all athletes ice. So I bet I can get all those guys on that team to where my. If I can make it good enough to where. And. And sure enough, even before we launched, I remember going to LeBron James's charity game and having LeBron and Dwyane Wade and all the guys that were on that Kevin Durant, all those guys were given a set of the high price. This is before we launched this in 2011.

Wow.

And I remember, like sitting there looking and going like, oh, wow, that was fast. Like I said, I said that maybe someday all of them will wear it. And they're already wearing it. We haven't launched yet, so. So if you like, it's. But it's because the athletes wanted something that was new. And I think that athletes were. Athletes were always ahead of the game. They're shifting their mind to, like, the way I enhance my craft is not by training harder and training more. It's by training smarter, but recovering more, taking better care of my body, looking for advantages in nutrition and sleep. So you're starting to see, like, what we call it, like, cracking the code, right? Like, what's the code? Like, can you sleep better, can you eat better, can you hydrate better, can you recover better? Can you massage better? So all these things kind of go into the final recipe of the athlete's craft.

Yeah.

And so we were just occupying this real estate where I like, just raised my head and said, hey, I think technology can influence the. Can enhance the craft through recovery. And so, like, that's kind of like the real estate that we occupy.

I love it even too, when you're saying that. I think I'm 24 for context, and I feel the last five years, especially having this podcast, being able to interview people like yourself or the founder of Woob or the founders of Plunge, sort of like these brands that, you know, a lot of them started off like you guys, like peak athletes only in terms of, like, recovery and taking care of yourself. And to see how that's translated to, like, the consumer and how they can take care of themselves the way peak athletes do and how that translates to culture and sort of, you know, people wearing the whoop and the heart rate waters and the eight Sleep. I just had one of the co founders of eight Sleep on, and I think it's just. It's not only very cool to see, but when I think about the. The future of health, longevity, and the things that I just like Reading about and studying. You know, you see people like Brian Johnson and these characters that are just, like, immersing themselves in documenting it. It's. It's just.

Is it the guy, like, whatever.

Brian Johnson? Yeah, that's the guy that's doing, like, all the tests on his body.

Yeah.

Not a brain tree, Venmo.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But. But speaking on athletes and something you mentioned earlier, something I'm very intrigued about, which is the Nike Hyperice collaboration. The shoe, the vest. I remember I saw this and I'm just like, whoa, is this an AI image? What is this? Is this real?

That's a compliment for people that thought, I got multiple texts that day. Or like, they said, is this real? Yeah.

So for people that are watching, what is this incredible partnership and device that you guys created with Nike?

Yeah. So the Hyperice Nike project started, it's about two years ago. It really started of just, like, reimagining new ways where we could impact the athlete in multiple touch points throughout their day that would impact performance and longevity. And, you know, people think that, like, we sit here and tinker and come up with technology and then put into a project and then go to sales and marketing and figure out how to sell it. Like, that's actually that backwards way. The way we think of it in all. In the way all products start is we think about the experience first. And so the experience started of, like, what? Like, how can I enhance the experience of. Of the athlete? Right? And so, okay, so athletes need to. They need to properly warm up and prep their bodies for movement, not only for, like, performance reasons, but for injury prevention. Right? So like, that phase, like the movement prep phase is a huge priority for an athlete. Well, athletes also need to recover just from, like, the day to day, like, grind. They. They need to. Sometimes they need treatment, so they need, like, if they have some sort of pain or tissue injury, they need to treat it. And then, like, all athletes travel. And I was like, well, you know what? We have to. We always have to be thinking about all those, like, touch points, right? Yeah. So what if there was sort of. I go back to like, when. When Apple launched. You talked about Apple earlier when, like, Steve Jobs launched the iPhone. If you go back to the keynote from January 2007, he doesn't just come out and say it. He says, hey, today Apple's launching three products. We're launching. Apple's launching a new ipod that's got widescreen. We're launching a phone, and we're launching a computer. A computer. And he said, But. But we're actually not launching three products. We're launching one product. And that was sort of like the whole thing behind that. Right. So, like, when we launched the Nike shoe, I said, well, it's sort of the similar dynamic. It's like, what if there was a shoe that could help an athlete, like, warm up and put their body in the optimal state before they put their game shoe on? What if there was a shoe that could help an athlete, like, recover faster after a game? What if there was a shoe that an athlete could wear? Because we were at the Olympic trials, I'm like, every athlete got here via plane, right?

Yeah.

Well, we know what being on a plane does to our bodies. It makes our legs feel tired and dead. So what if we can reverse that? So what if we could make a travel shoe and then what if we can make a treatment shoe? Because over a long enough timeline, people are always going to eventually, unfortunately have some sort of an injury or something. But what if we could do all that in one? What if we could do one shoe that could do all that? That could be the athlete's companion for that. Wow. And so, I mean, look, ideas come from places. When you're thinking about experiences that you want to have, it's not always about solving a problem. Look, everyone says, oh, the best products are the ones that solve a problem. Yeah. But sometimes the best products are solving problems that you don't even realize are problems. It's just enhancing an experience and making, like, enhancing the quality of life of an athlete or a regular person. And so for us, it was just like we wanted to bring our technology. We thought that we were at the point where the technology had gotten small enough, light enough, and efficient enough where it could disappear into something like a footwear or a piece of apparel. And so when it came to that, like, Nike was obviously going to be the first call we make because we have a long standing partnership with them. I was close with the. With the, you know, head of footwear innovation, and I was like, yeah, I think that we're not a footwear and apparel company. And, like, I would make everyone raise their right hand. We're not going to ever become a shoe company. Right? So we, we needed. We needed a partner to basically, like, hey, how can we figure this out together? Because it was a moonshot project, right? It wasn't like we didn't know 100%. You know, we. We had our ideas and our sketches of, like, how we think it could work, but could we pull it off? Is there enough real Estate in the shoe. Could we make it elegant? Like it wasn't just about making it, it was about making it elegant enough to actually be a shoe and be wearable. It's kind of like when I tell people all the time, like James Cameron had the idea for Avatar right after titanic in like 1999, but he went to Industrial Light Magic and they said, well, we can't really, this is not going to look how you want it to look. And so he had to wait until the technology caught up and then they did it. And there's something about like waiting for the right moment to do it. And so I feel like the timing is right where we're like, hey, we've miniaturized all our technology, we think we could do this. And, and so the moment was right to do it.

That's so, that's incredible. So, so that product specifically, is that going to be direct to consumer or who has that right now?

Well, right now, I mean the way in true high price in Nike fashion, we always do all of our product testing on athletes and we have access to the world's best. And so there was this moment coming up, you know, you know, take the commercialization out of it. Like this moment was coming up where it was like, hey, the Olympics are in Paris in 24. And this was like kind of on the radar, like, like you know, middle of last year. They're like, hey, do we think we could do so can we, can we, can we, could we finish this project and get enough done by then? And it gave us like a marker to hit right? And so it, we, we had make some big, made some big breakthroughs last June where we, we, we got everything on board and we're like, hey, we think we could, we could get there. So before this is going to go and ever become a commercialized product, we wanted to say let's test it amongst the athletes that have the highest standards, that are really in tune with their body, that are going to use it at like the biggest moments and we're going to get an unbelievable set of product feedback so that when we go from like this first production run, which we did, where there'll be several hundred athletes at the Olympics that'll be using the Shoe Invest and then the, the additional Nike wear testers that we're going to do at the end of the year and we're going to have this amazing set of feedback from the fit, the feel like temperatures, like the, the usability, all that user interface and we're going to be able to like, refine that and. And put it into a commercial product at some point. Yeah.

That's so sick. Congrats, by the way. I mean, just there's, you know, there's a quote, I'm gonna butcher it, but it's from forward. It's like, if people ask for a faster car, they would have gotten another horse or an extra horse. Right. So hearing the parallels of, like, how you guys think about, like, seeing it and believing it and having that moonshot idea, it's really cool to hear.

Yeah. I mean, when. When you. If you want to be a. You know, and I always feel like people throw around the word innovative so much, and I actually. I don't use the word that much because I don't think it's up to us to say that something's innovative. That's up to the audience. It's sort of like, you know, people should not listen to. Well, we make up our minds about product quality from our own experiences, not from marketing. So, like, whenever you hear, like, advertisers try to say, you know, like, oh, like, you know, this is the best quality, or like, they try to, like, preach. I'm like, yeah, but I'm not gonna make up my mind listening to an ad. I'm gonna make up my mind on my actual experience using the product. People come out to me all the time. They're like, man, my normal. I want to get a new one, but, man, that my old one's, like, still, like, fine. Like, yeah, it just. It'll last forever. That person is making up their mind about quality based on their own experience. I feel like innovation is the same way. Like, don't let me tell you something's innovative. Innovation should be, like, that's up to the. It's to the. That's for the audience to decide that, hey, this actually made my life better. This. This enhanced some experience, and then it becomes innovative. But we just deal the cards. We're just the dealers. We say, here's our technology. And if you ask me, I believe it adds a ton of utility in my life. And I think the products are innovative, but that doesn't mean that it is. It's really what the. Ultimately, The. The market speaks totally.

And I gotta say, by the way, too, I gotta start doing every interview in these boots. I'm just having the best time ever right now. But to kind of pivot to something I'm curious about in terms of, like, growth through acquisitions. I know you guys have done multiple acquisitions throughout the years, and I'm curious, like, when you were going out to acquire a handful of companies, I know normatech was one of them. I would love the context on the other companies. How do you guys view acquisitions? How have you viewed them in the past and then also looking into the future?

Well, NormaTec was the first big one. We had acquired some intellectual property from a company that actually was the precursor to the Hypervolt. So like before the massage gun market even existed back there was a company that was developing a precursor to a percussion device. And we ended up buying that company and leveraging that into product development process that led to the hypervolt in 2018. Yeah, we were actually selling a plug in massage device, percussion device before that, as early as 2014. And so in that. And that. So in that instance it was more like that was like an IP purchase. So like the consumer doesn't know about that. Yeah, but it was something that we did that really helped our product development. Right. The NormaTec was different because they actually had a really big cult following. In 2019 when we started the negotiation, the cult following was really amongst professional and college athletes, like Olympic or high performing athletes I guess you could say. Like, and then avid runners and cyclists like Ironman. But that was kind of. And then it had filtered a little bit into the entertainment community because the entertainment community follows the athletic community. But it was still pretty niche. And that one of the challenges was that the price of an entry level normatec was like 1600 bucks at the time, which is sort of like an odd kind of price point. It's not really consumer price point. So. And, and, but I love the pro. I got the product in 2013 and loved it. And I, I felt that like a lot of the athletes that were using our products were using NormaTec. And I was like, wow, like this seems to be like my own body, like responded really well. And everyone I talked to was like, oh yeah, it's a really great product. I think that we just saw the opportunity that if it was in a bigger vehicle and our brand hadn't kind of really excelled at like kind of like storytelling and really kind of owning the narrative about recovery and from like a sort of a storytelling and science perspective and that that wasn't the strength of normatech was just. The strength was just it was a great product.

Yeah.

But it was weird because it wasn't really that much of a consumer facing brand because of the pricing dynamics. So the problem we solved was like can we Apple Foxconn this and figure out a way to get the manufacturing maintaining all the Quality. We didn't change one critical component. We got the manufacturing down by half and we were able to offer the product at 800. And that's when you see like the just normal technology scale. Right. For sure. And so yeah, that, that was. So those two acquisitions were happened for completely different reasons. And then you know, there's a company called Recoverx, it had a contrast therapy technology that we acquired. And then there'll be. We use that to, to basically redesign our venom line around. So if you think about the Nike shoe, the two core technologies are thermal technology because the shoe has heating elements and then there's the NormaTec technology in the shoe. Both of those are technologies that we acquired.

Wow.

So yeah, the acquisitions obviously like worked out from a perspective of.

Yeah.

Of. Of like their individual successes, but also the cross pollinating those technologies and then reimagining new categories of product to put them into.

It's so great. It is operating better together. Right. This company aside product within an ecosystem. It's so cool to see when you think about more so as a founder throughout the growth of Hyperice, I remember reading 2020 Hypervolt takes off. You guys do north of $100 million that year, if I'm not mistaken. Through this hyper growth phase. How is your mindset and how are you viewing and handling this phase of growth? I mean that's every founder's dream, right. The people that are getting the early stage feedback, whether that's their friend or Kobe Bryant, like you're putting in this effort to hopefully one day reach this phase of growth and then obviously to. To grow as a company into where you need to go. So for you as a founder, Anthony, talk us through that point of, you know, 2020 moving into this year of hypergrowth and really how you guys shifted things in the company, whether that's through capital, through key hires, et cetera.

Yeah. So it happens so fast you don't really have a lot of time to like think about it happening. Like I remember, I remember at the end of 2017, I remember in December we like, we like broke the $10 million revenue mark where we did, I think we did 10.6 million that year. And we were like celebrate. I'm like, wow, like that's a big milestone, you know, like, you know, this little startup. I think we were probably 10 people at the time or something like that. 10, 12 people. And you know, it was like we. But we were. Recovery was not mainstream yet. We were pretty early still 2017 and, and then 2018 when we launched the Hyperbole that was sort of just the. That was like, you know, it's like a band that has, like, some successful albums, but all of a sudden, like, their third or fourth one is like, breaks and they. They get really big. Yeah. And so the, and so the hyper was really. It just. It just hit the culture in a big way. And. And so we went from a company. Yeah, doing, you know, you talk about the. The 24 months from the end of 2017 to the end of 2019. Yeah, we went from. We grew like 15x about, you know, 14x. So you're talking about, like, you know, it's a different. Like, your life's different, you know, like, you know, it's just like, wow. Like, everything's just, you know, the type of problems that you have are different because there's always, you know, business is constantly a series of problems that you're trying to solve, and you make decisions to solve them. But it was like, I don't think that, like, it's happened. Things are happening so fast, and you're. And you're constantly, like, adapting and you're. You're, you know, moving 100 miles an hour, so you don't really have a lot of time to, like, sit there and reflect. I'm like. I was like, I'll think about that when, you know, someday and, you know, when this is all over. But, you know, you're just. Again, you're. You're trying to learn as much as you can and, and make the best decisions every day. At the end of the day, like, we're paid to make decisions. We make decisions every day, little and big, about people and personnel and products and. And distribution and. And marketing. And, you know, you. You end up. You're. You're a. You're a sub of all those decisions. And so you try to make those decisions with as much clarity as possible, even though things are changing around you really fast. And that's kind of the hardest thing is that, you know, then in 2020, this black swan event happens, Right. You know, you have this pandemic. And so, you know, it's just. It's. It's easier to run a business with clarity. And then, like, when things get really, like when you. When you introduce a variable like that, it's like, oh, okay, well, like, you know, where. Where's the manual on how to survive a global pandemic in the 21st century? There is none. Right? So it's all just like, you know, every day it's. There's new challenges every day, and Even. Even in that, like, like, rocket ship growth we had, there was still, like, you know, challenges and things that come up and. But you just kind of like, have to make the best decisions you can. Yeah, that's.

It's great to hear and even to. I want to hear just in the context of, you know, you're working with so many elite athletes. You're someone that's obviously stays active. What is your daily routine as a CEO, but also as someone that's, you know, trying to take care of himself, wants to be active, is looking to obviously incorporate, you know, the products into your own life. What does your day typically look like?

Yeah, so I came up in the. In the late, you know, as a teenager in the 90s. And so, like, second half of the 90s is when like, I really got into, like, working out and like, I would lift a lot. And like, that lasted all the way through the early 2000s. Like, so there was like a good, like, from like, call like 90, like 95 to 2010, like those 15 years that was like, kind of like core, like, whatever other sports I was doing, I was always doing that. And I think that, like, I just hit the wall. I was like, I freaking just don't want to be inside lifting heavy metal objects anymore. So I look for other things to do. But basketball has kind of been the constant. I never really stopped playing, you know, played high school and never stopped playing after that. But there's been like, times where I got really into tennis and there's been times and like, I'm. I live on the ocean, so, like, I've always been like, you know, like, swimming in the ocean or whether it's like, occasionally going out for surf or whatever it is, but it's more like I love moving and the competition and basketball is just the one thing that has. I think I have a, like a. A crave of, like, competition. Yeah. And that's both physical and, like, kind of like it also is a. Is like a measuring stick for, like, how young am I, how good do I feel and where am I at? Right. Basketball challenges all that. It challenges like the physical, it challenges like, the mental and like, your dexterity, coordination. And so for me, like, that's just the ultimate workout. So I play two days a week, and so all my recovery and everything revolves around those two days. Got it recently, like, like, you know, in my community, everyone plays beach volleyball and like, my wife's got really into it, and so I'll kind of go bang the ball around a little bit and I Don't know if I'll ever take it more seriously. But to me, I was playing a.

Big beach volleyball game or kind of like lakefront in Michigan on the 4th of July.

Yeah.

Got so intense. I was telling Diego I'm trying to get out there more.

Yeah.

In Santa Monica.

So I mean, I think that when you're a competitive person, you said that like, you know, my wife played pro basketball, never played volleyball, and now she's like super into it. But I just love basketball too much. So it's still to me the one thing that it pushes me, it challenges me and it gives me that like, reason to like keep my body in shape. But I do think that like, I think I'm going to have a moment where I go back to like my roots and, and start doing more strength training because as I'm, I'm on the wrong side of 40 now. So you got like, like strength training and like is like something I got to get back into. And I just like that, that that'll eventually be part of it. So the stuff I do for recovery is just going to even be more important. And it's more. And it's, it's such a part of my life that I don't really think about it anymore.

Yeah. Do you guys work with any runners or marathoners?

Yeah, that's not the division I like, that's not where my relationships lie. So that's really more. I do usa, USA track and fields a partner of Hyperdice and then Legacy normatech. When they were, you know, coming up, that was a big community that they were really popular in.

Yeah.

So like there's a whole, the, the marketing team that handles like those type of channels are. Yeah, we work with a ton of runners and I, I'm more of like a, I follow track and field and I like the sprints and sort of the more high profile events for sure. But like, you know, when you're a basketball player, you wouldn't be caught dead doing distance running. It's just like how it is. Yeah. Yeah. So I, other than like, you know, I, you know, like you working with Nike, they've been really big and you know, obviously in running and we hear the names a lot. So like, I know like El K was like one of the first to get the shoe and, and, and like, you know, and then Shakari Richardson who's a sprinter. So. Yeah, like I'd say like I'm literate in track and field, but like distance running, I just, I just, you know, basketball is my, my high Intense workout. So I, I, I won't be doing that anytime soon.

I, I kind of. I caught the bug, like, two years ago. I ran my first marathon, and first one was in Honolulu. And the last year is Palm beach. And I've sort of set out on this path the next six years. I want to do all six of the majors. So this year I'm doing New York City, and then it's Boston, Chicago.

Wow.

London, Berlin, Tokyo. And for me, it's just something that more than the day itself with a marathon. I mean, I'm sure you would agree it's just the process of, you know, for four months of the year, I'm. The way I'm training, the way I'm living, it's just. It puts me in a whole different state. And I love that process. But, I mean, I deal with a lot of injuries from my knee.

Yeah.

I'm kind of, like, ramping up into it.

I'm like, all right.

People say you just get injured, and I think that's very true.

Well, it's good.

I'm doing my best.

It's good that people all have different things they love to do, because, like, for me, like, running a marathon just feels like voluntarily suffering. So I don't, I want no part of it. But I know a lot of people are like, oh, my God, you play basketball this in your body? I'm like, no. You know, so, like, we all have, like. I don't have really much interest in golf either, and a lot of my friends play. And I'm like, no, I'm good. Like, I just don't want to spend six hours walking around. And so for me, like, meanwhile, I.

Just got a whole new set of clubs this week.

But my thing is, like, I think it's.

I love it.

I think it's great that we all have different things, because otherwise, you know, if everyone loved golf, well, everyone would be on the course and you wouldn't be able to play. So I'm glad that we all have. There's a million things to do and people that, like, I remember when CrossFit got big, I was like, I don't. This just looks like punishment to me.

CrossFit. No, no. CrossFit across it. Yeah.

Yeah. And I. And I. But look, I guess whatever makes people, you know, whatever does it for them. Yeah, I'm all for it. We're. We're an agnostic brand when it comes to what sport. We all have our own personal biases. But whatever you love to do, you know, we'll Help you do it.

I love it. No, I love it. A couple more questions. Where you start to wrap up here, Anthony. When it comes to the culture here at Ibarez, I know we're, we're here in the hq. What, what are some key things that stand out to you when it comes to the culture you want to instill into the team here at Hyperice?

Yeah, well, number one, I feel like as a founder, your sort of personality and approach, like definitely like has a trickle down effect. And I think it starts for me, like people ask me all the time, they're like, oh, what, Paul is the founder? Do you think, you know, contribute to this? And like, for me, like number one is like just like being kind. Like, yeah, I just think that like the lost art of kindness. I think I. One thing about me, I have, you know, if you tell your listeners, you cannot follow me on social media. I have no social media. I'm not on LinkedIn. I'm not, I have not.

Yeah, I couldn't find you.

I don't participate in the social media culture. I actually think it's destroying the culture. But that's another podcast, so, so, and I feel like that culture has bred this whole new like just meanness in people and it's just like, yeah, just the keyboard cowards, right? It's just like, you know, and, and because, and so for me like has that.

I'm just curious on the note of social media in this world of like founder led brand, you know, people like Elon, you see these characters obviously on social, has there ever been a temptation there of like, hey, like obviously you do podcasts, you're telling your story so you're amplified on social across different ch. Or has it always just been like a non starter?

I want to spend all my time living in the physical reality and be present and I love when I'm home, I want to be around my kids, I want to go do stuff. Like I really don't care about creating another personality, another life in the digital world because my physical reality is like pretty good and I like it here.

I love that.

And I don't need to. And like it doesn't validate. I don't feel any need to validate or connect. Like I always tell people I call you or I text you because like, like that's how I have to keep in touch with you. I don't know when your kid graduates college or when you, when you announce that you're pregnant, whatever, like, because like a lot of times I've, I remember Calling a good friend of mine who's an athlete, I'm like, wait, I found out you're pregnant. You didn't tell me. She goes, well, yeah, because everyone knows it because I posted it. But if you're not on like. So I'm like the last to know a lot about stuff. So most of my friends know that. They send me like, you know, stuff that, like, if it's, you know, whether it's stuff, news that breaks or whatever. And look, yeah, there's probably some utility to it. Like, you know, if you're a big sports fan, you want to find out if your team made a big trade or whatever. But it's just not worth it to me to like that the benefit, me finding out something a couple minutes later is not a big enough downside to make up for when I just go out and to dinner and I see people like they're, they're at dinner with each other, staring at their phones. I miss. Yeah, I, I grew up in the time where that wasn't a thing. So I don't want like, I feel like I'm like the get off my lawn guy, you know, like sounding like this old. But I just don't. For me, I just, it's just not like, that's just my choice. I don't look, look down on it. I have my own opinions about it. But so going back to like the culture, like at Hyper Ice, by the way, everyone here has social media with me but like kindness, like, I spend just as much time talking to like, like, you know, it's whoever, whoever you know, I interact with, you know, regardless of if they're like, you know, entry level employee or an executive and stuff. Like, you know, you gotta value everyone. It's like I take a lot from basketball. Like the guy who's the 12th player on the end of your bench, like, that guy matters because like they're on the team and like they're part of the chemistry. Right. And so if everyone feels they contribute and they're valued, it's just a better culture. So look again, I never feel it's my right to say we have a great culture. You have to ask the people that work here just like, I don't feel like it's all right to say we make really innovative products or we make really clarifies. That's where the consumer side. But I think if you ask the people here, I would hope that like, they would say that like it's a place that fosters, you know, like creativity and a good place to come to work every day.

I love that. And I gotta say, the social media comment, it's so refreshing to hear and I hope people watching or listening take that and really take a moment because I know I will to say like, hey, there's someone else that lives and breathes that like it's, I feel like you feel. So you kind of have to keep up with the social or the next platform, the next thing. Especially as founders are kind of like following attention and say, how do we create this with our brand? So appreciate you sharing that.

And then all this is privacy too. Like, I just don't want everyone knowing everything I do. Like I asked why. Like, yeah, you know, this is what I'm eating, where I'm, where I'm at. It just feels weird. Like I see people just like constantly broadcasting their life and I don't know, it's just, I still, I love it. I'm happy to go about my day and just kind of. Yeah. Kind of live in a moment.

Yeah, yeah, you're a great life.

Yeah.

When you think about the future of Hyperice, you know, I know we, we talk about the Nike product, the brands, the collaboration that you guys are at like a category. You guys are the category, category defining brand. As the founder, when you think about the future, what excites you the most and how do you think about Hyper Hyper over the next five to ten years?

Well, I think about that we've reinvented the company like five times. So it's like we started out making portable ice compression devices that were non electronic. And so then we, so that was, so we invented the company that way, then reinvented the company with the Viper, which is our first electronics product and doing a soft tissue dynamic. Soft tissue product was one of the first of its kind. And that took the company different direction. Then we reinvented again, but we introduced a percussion device to the world laymanly referred to as a massage gun. And then we're like, hey, we, you know, we thought that dynamic air compression was like a huge thing in the future. We purchased Nortek, we reinvented the company again. And then like now this is like, you know, the fifth turn right of like, you know, putting our tech into footwear and apparel. And so I remember when I had the Viper, we, we, we launched a one product of the year in men's fitness and men's Journal, I think it was. And you know, we got a lot of accolades and I remember not, I don't care about that. I was just making the point That I remember thinking, like, that was validation for, like, wow. Like, this was a really good idea.

Yeah.

And I'm like, wow, this is. This might be the best idea I'll ever have. And it turned out that. That you could never think like that.

Yeah.

And I remember being at lunch with an athlete, and he's like, this isn't your best idea. He's like, you haven't even thought of your best idea yet. And I remember saying, like, that's a really good way to look at it. And so when you say, what's the future? The known unknown is. The most exciting part is like, well, I could. I could tell the near future because I know all the products that we have in development. I get that.

Yeah.

Five, 10 years, like, I always operate that, like, I'm right on the verge of, like, something can happen. A young entrepreneur in his garage might be working on something amazing, and they get a meeting here, and that becomes our next thing.

Yeah.

Or maybe it's, you know, maybe it's someone internally or maybe it's, you know, someone on my product team, or maybe it's me or whatever it is. But we always have to feel that, like, our best idea is, like, you know, around the corner. I do think the Nike shoes pretty damn awesome.

I can. Yeah, I can't wait.

So, so, so, so, like, before we get on to the next one, like, I want to really kind of execute that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so I think that, like, look, I mean, shoes are a huge category, and I think that our technology and shoes, I think that that's just the first of. Of what I think will be many versions.

I love that. Well, Anthony, thank you so much for. For taking the time to come on the show today. I mean, doing, you know, the interview in these NormaTec boots, got to say, the best experience.

Well, it's, you know, sitting is not great for the body, but when you're sitting in NormaTec, you know, you get like, we did the. The lymphatic pump equivalent of probably running like a half a mile or mile.

Or something like that.

So it's good.

I love it. And, and last but not least, before you wrap up, where is the best place for everyone to learn more about hyperice, all the products you guys offer, and just stay connected overall.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, hyperice.com or our YouTube channel has, like, we do a series called behind this playing above your head right now. It's called behind the Science. If people want to learn more about, like, what our products do, I think we do a good job of kind of explaining like, hey, don't just use these products and just, you know, just trust us. It's we'll explain the science to you in our behind the Science series. And if you want to learn more how the products are made and built, we have a Behind the Design, which goes through our philosophy on design, engineering and building products. So I would say, like, you know, YouTube or the website, probably the best place for that.

Love it. Well, I'll be sure to link that down below. And once again, thank you so much for having us here today. Not only did I learn so much, but I'm a huge fan of the product of the business you've built and truly can't wait to see the next five to 10 years and what that looks like. So thanks again, Anthony.

Yeah, thanks for having me.