Ben Goodwin - Co-Founder & CEO of OLIPOP; A New Kind of Soda

All right, what is going on, everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today we have Ben Goodwin, the co founder and CEO of Olipop. Thanks so much for coming on, Ben.

Yeah, pleasure to be with you. Thanks for having me, Casey.

So it only felt right. So our buddy Stephen Parker from Olipop sent me a new case, sent me a case of the new crisp apple. So I got to tell you, I had one earlier and I had to bring it out again for the show. So spot on with the flavor. So I just wanted to point that out before we dive in. But it's so great to have you on, man. Excited to dive into your story. How's the day so far?

It's been quite a day. This morning I was on a White House sponsored panel discussing food is medicine and nutrition slash healthcare policy, which is, you know, it's an honor that that's been coming together kind of rapidly. I was invited to attend the House summit on hunger, nutrition and health recently. It's been a bit of a whirlwind. I didn't expect for there to be follow up. So to be back on a panel is pretty crazy. Definitely, you know, it's, it's pushing a bit outside of kind of my current core realm of expertise. But there are things that we're trying to do slash influence there. So, you know, normally when I'm out in a public space talking, there's like, it's not such a high profile thing when I'm still learning how to talk about it publicly. So it's, you know, yeah, journey, but kind of crank it through.

No, I mean, quite the start of the day. I usually don't set up a show. But I gotta ask you, like, what's the biggest, like, what have you learned so far by going through that experience? Right. Like not that many people get to have that experience working White House covering those type of topics. And of course I want to dive into Alipop. But quite the day and quite the interesting opportunity that you're going through right now.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's always positive and humbling and not in the kind of pretentious way, but like in just kind of, you know, the real way to, you know, be moving into an area that you have a lot of passion for and even strong opinions on, but honestly have less expertise. And I think to be on such a big stage, I think I'm pretty heartened by the kind of public sector and the government's motivation around something that's so important and the fact that quickly Growing. But in the scheme of things, especially compared to the Coke and Pepsi, the fact that a brand like Olipop is even kind of making onto that radar, I think is underlining around the impact that we're having. That maybe is beyond what I would have even anticipated. And at the same time, you know, it keeps giving me bigger mountains to climb up, which is, you know, again, it's, it's, it's engaging and it's humbling and I have to develop expertise and kind of talking, communication fluency around an area that is slightly more new for me.

Well, very cool to hear that, man. Congrats to you and the whole team to dive into. Ipod, man. And just to echo what you said, you guys have made quite the job in terms of the industry. I see you guys everywhere. All of my friends have iBop. I live here in LA for context.

Cool.

It's so cool to see what you guys have built. Obviously, I met Steven early on at a coffee shop here in Venice, and just hearing, you know, his involvement in the story from him is world class. But I want to ask you, what inspired alipop and the creation of it? I know you had a previous company that you can talk about, but, you know, when was the idea and what was that point where you're like, wow, I want to go create this. This is what I want to do, and this is the sector I want to dive into.

Yeah, I mean, for me, it's. It has legitimately been a lifelong journey. So I, you know, I grew up poor, eating Standard American diet. That really didn't go well for me as like a young man. I grew up, like, pretty overweight, and that translated to like a bunch of anxiety and kind of poor functioning. When I was 14, I kind of had this pivot moment where it's like, overly simple as it sounds like, just like, this is not going to create a good life. And for some reason, I had the insight at a young age like, hey, I want a good life. I got to take control of this. So I changed a bunch of things. Exercise and I got into therapy. But really it was this shift around my diet that was so super impactful to me. Learning more about it was also incredibly empowering. A couple years go by of all those changes, and I'm like, I've got more energy and I'm more able to engage in fitness and stuff, and it's cool. But the thing that was the most impactful was really the shift it created in my kind of cognitive functioning and my emotional stability and. And, you know, Coming from a harder environment, seeing and seeing kind of a lot of the issues we face as a country. And you know, then eventually I learned about the microbiome, I learned about the brain gut axis, you know, the fact that we actually make the majority of neurotransmitters and our hormones in our microbiome and has this like profound effect on the way we think and we feel. And then you look at the world, you're like, or at least the country, but you know, increasing the world, you're like, wow, I, you know, huh, we're in quite a state of turmoil as a country and I can't help but imagine that that's being at minimum exacerbated by the general state of lack of health. So dropped out of college at 20, you know, helped a friend, started a kombucha company. That's where I learned about the microbiome. And you know, decade and a half later, here I am with Olipop. But it's always just been about how do I create that really effective Trojan horse style product that really meets people where they are, that can operate at scale, that's not talking down to people so we can change behavior, but you know, again, to do it through something that's actually meeting customers where they are. So yeah, it's just been a really long evolution for me.

Very cool. When you say Trojan Horse, is that hinting at like other product lines into the future within Alipop?

Well, like, man, I am about innovation to the point where, you know, I'm thankful that I have a team around me to be like, Ben, chill out. So it's up to me, my like chicken brain. I'd be like creating new things all the time. Certainly. Yeah, we have our eye on some pipeline innovation for sure. And I think there's so much work to do around disrupting a category like soda that even if we never came out with pipeline innovation, still have a massive company and tons of work to do. So. But yeah, the Trojan horse more relates to the fact that, you know, we've done clinical trials with Purdue and Baylor College of Medicine. We got great results out of that, out of that testing. We've got a world class scientific advisory board that's a rock solid kind of nutritional formula that's been put together and I could have gone, we could have gone and put that into anything. You know, the choice to put it in something that effectively is a soda that's also low sugar. That's where the Trojan horse really comes into play, where instead of, you know, you're you're basically saying, okay, soda has 97 household penetration. It's, as a category, it's been around for like 125 years or more. So that's something that's really ripe for that, that so many people have a relationship with. It's really ripe for disruption. But. And it's, I mean, soda has really never been a vehicle for health in the last hundred years. And so that's where the Trojan horse aspect comes into play.

I love that. And just to speak from experience here, you know, I grew up in an environment in Virginia. My family wasn't the most health conscious. And I grew up with, you know, Coca Cola, Vela, Coke, Sprite, Mountain Dew. And it hit me when I'm 13, 14, like, getting this world of business and entrepreneurship and learning about health. I grew up an athlete, but I just, I drink that like Gatorade. And now like to see the impact of how that has, you know, how obesity and everything's on the rise and people are just drinking 40 grams worth of sugar in a, in a soda every day. It's crazy. And when I first saw Olipop, it really opened my eyes to the, like, the real impact that you guys can have on people that are looking for that shift, for that change. And even, like my whole family, I've put them on Olip. My guys, like, you gotta have the vintage cola, you gotta have the, the root beer, all the stuff that a. On a first taste, it really just blows you away. I think, why would I drink, you know, the Coke or the Pepsi or whatever it may be so first. Thank you. Because I think the disruption that you guys is having, it's. It's such an impactful beverage to the market that, I mean, I'm, as you can probably see, like a huge fan. And I love the product. And I'm sure, you know, I'm not the only one speaking on that. But when you get, when you think back to the start of Olipop and now all the different flavors that you guys have come out with, and now to, you know, the new crisp apple one that I have here today. How do you think about launching these different flavors? I know you've done some cool stuff with like, the Minions and the Banana and these cool product activations. How do you guys think about the flavors currently and just thinking about them in the future? Because I think obviously that's such a strong presence of the brand and you know, why, why people love it and the different flavors and what you offer. So how do you think about that as the co founder, CEO.

Well, so I'm also the formulator. Maybe you know that, maybe you don't know that, but yes, I have too, too many hats. I was just joking with my ea. I was up like too late at night sampling a bunch of different tweaks I was making to things. And then I was like, I think I had a little too much lollipop right before bed. Because you know, it's, it's an effective product. You know, it's, to be, to be honest, I mean, especially with the early flavors, I really did just rely on the combination of what I thought, like what I wanted to test out in the market, what I thought would really generate good traction with the customers. And then what I kind of was excited about, like what I thought, like, hey, this would be cool if I could pull this off. I'm excited about this. I think I could do something interesting here. Like cola is something that I've been thinking about for years prior. Prior to Olipop, you know, I had a root beer that I formulated for, for Obi and it did really well. It was actually a top selling skew for that, for that business, which is an interesting insight. But I've been thinking about a cola for years, but it's so hard to get right and it's such a beloved product for so many people. But after even thinking about it for a really long time, you're kind of like, hey, all right, let's, let's, let's just do it. Let's just make one and see how, and see how if I can pull it off. And as we went down the road, still at the end of the day, it's not where we sit now. It's not like we don't take data into account. So actually the biggest piece of data that I've taken inspiration from are the requests from our customers. So we've got a customer flavored database in terms of all the organic requests that have float in something to the tune of like 10,000 requests. And so every month or so I get an updated like pie chart with here's, you know, excluding everything that we formulated. We have something really similar to here's what the customer's asking for their stack ranked. And that gives me a lot of insight now because that's who I care about. You know, creating something great for is our, is our customers. Like that's who I, you know, that's who I care about. So if they, if they're able to give us feedback around what they want, that's super useful. But I also will. Either it's, like, way farther down the list or maybe it's not even on the list. Like, tropical punch was a good example of that. It's not like nobody asked for some kind of fruit punch or tropical punch.

Yeah.

But, you know, I grew up drinking Red Hawaiian Punch, and, yeah, you know that. I mean, it's got that, like, you know, I'm like, no one's gonna expect this, but I just think it's gonna absolutely was like, crush when it gets to market, if I can. If I can make it taste like this thing that's in my mind. Right. And so that's. Then I. That excites me. And I basically, like, inspiration is my fuel. So if something gives me that excitement, inspiration, I want to grind towards it. And. Yeah, and that's that. That flavor has done extremely well. But that wasn't based on data. It was just based on a bit of a hunch. And I've got. So I've got, like, kind of a bag. I've got a bag of things that I know customers want or I know was that classic soda experience. Then I've got a bag of things where I'm just like, dude, this would be such a slamming flavor if I could pull this off. And that's exciting.

Very cool to hear. When it comes to the early days of distribution for Alipab, I know you were involved in beverage previously, but for me, one of my favorite things to do is walk into Erewhon and just try different drinks, try different beverages. It's like a guilty pleasure of mine.

Yeah. Super fun.

And then I have my Olipop, you know, renew. So that's already dialed in. Right. But when it comes to the early days of distribution for Olipop and, like, getting in its first door, how was that process for you and what were some of the challenges that you guys faced to get to where you are today when it comes to the amount of locations you guys are in? And I'd love for you to speak on that in terms of how many locations, like, top market, just to give an overall sense of, you know, the customer and how you guys think about the business.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. There's a couple of layers of answers that. So, I mean, start with the easy stuff. So we're at about 21,000 doors, and that will grow pretty meaningfully next year. And that includes, you know, we're in about 4000 Walmarts and 1600 targets. Publix. H E B. Very wide distribution in Kroger. Wide distribution. Safeway Albertsons Whole Foods Sprouts just started our first rotations at Costco and those are going super well. So, you know, we're, we're definitely like, we've got some footprint now, which is fantastic. You know, it started, it really did start very, very scrappy. It literally started. There was actually shout out to this particular distributor. There's a distributor who took a chance on us in Northern California, which is where we started the business originally. Neither my business partner or I live there now, but that's where we did kick off. And so there was a, there's a great kind of heartfelt distributor called Dairy Delivery. It's a dsd. And we went to their, David and I went to their office with demo of the product and basically like, hey, you know, we've got some background. This is what we think this product could do. Give it a try, take a chance on us. And you know, they set a target. They're like, look, sell into X number of stores. Once you set it, sell into those stores. We agree, we'll pick you up. But they were still cool about it. Like we did sell into quite the number of stores. We were getting close but I think they could sense the excitement we were getting. And they're like, ah, fuck it, we'll just, we'll just push you out now. And so that's, that was like our first thing. And then once you get onto your initial shelves, it's just, it's about like getting from proof point to proof point. So we're doing, we're hitting these velocities. We're getting this kind of breakthrough in this type of store and this type of environment. Then we take that data and we take, you know, the hustle of the, of the field team, which used to just be David and I, now it's a bit bigger and we just go, we sell to the next door to sell the next doors. We get a bigger account, then we take that data, we get the bigger account. And so it literally is just like a ground. There's no, you know, there are some super, super established players who, you know, they partner with 711 before they even launch a brand because that's just where they are in their, their career and their connections. But that's not how we started. Olipop really was from the ground up. Now one thing that is worth noting for us, which goes back to that kind of like Trojan horse piece is like we never built Olipop to get capped at the natural channel, right, Which a lot of innovation does get capped there Natural channel is fantastic. Great consumer, health conscious, willing to spend a little more, willing to experiment. So they're a phenomenal early consumer and they're an important consumer. For us it was about reaching that group but then going, widening the tent from there and making sure we were capturing more mainstream accounts and more mainstream customers also. Really? Because the goal has always been that this should be innovation for everybody. Right. So we did actually a bunch of marketing research last year and we checked out where we sit and like we over index right now in the Midwest we're actually selling more product and for us, like that's a big signal of we're achieving what we set out to achieve because we didn't just create LA and New York. Yeah, the big cities. Yeah, yeah. We love Erewhon. They were really important to our founding trajectory. You know those numbers that we got from Erewhon and the support we got from Erewhon were really, was really important. And I think it's great for brands to, to go into Erewhon and get and partner with them and use that as proof point and then use that as a springboard to just keep going.

Absolutely. I want to change conversations. I think Olipop's success is the team and most importantly you and your founder. As a founder, when was it in your journey prior to Olipop where you realized, hey, I want to go down this path of entrepreneurship. When you were dropping out of college at 20 was your path to always. And I know you touched on it at the beginning here to be in beverage because you know, there's a lot of young founders listen to this show and I'd love to just highlight some of the lessons and you know, the hurdles that you've had to jump through to get to this point because you know, I'm sure it hasn't been easy and I'd love to just dive into some of the founder stories that you've gone through and just to get clear on the question, like, you know that moment where you decided to go all in and pursue this as a career path when it comes to being a founder entrepreneur.

Yeah, yeah, great question. So a. I mean it is the case that a lot of entrepreneurs are just wired a bit differently. I mean it got to the point where this is like kind of, you know, ridiculous. But a couple years ago I actually got my brain scanned because I was just like, something is going on here. So I got like a 16 channel egg and then I got the like hard data like, oh no, empirically I've got a weird ass Brain. But, you know, I always kind of was a bit like that, you know, like my favorite stories. Actually this is one of Stephen's favorite stories, so he'll enjoy this getting into the podcast. But like, you know, when I was in like third grade, I created something called the X Men Club, where I was like, I love X Men and we should have like, you know, community collection of toys that we all get to play with. So let's get a whole group together, we'll donate a certain percentage of our lunch money and we'll pile it up and then we'll buy toys and then we'll have like a lock chest somewhere where everyone belongs to the X Men club to buy X Men toys. And yeah, it ended up getting shut down because, you know, anyway, the principal thought I was forming a gang when I was trying to form like a young company, but. But then I had a farmer's market, like, you know, I found out with young Thai coconuts are when I was in high school. And I was like, these are delicious. Nobody sells these. I find it like a friend. And I made like a farmer's market booth just like selling coconut. So I've always like, been about. I've always been like that. I'm really into electronic music. My music studio is next room over. So in my late teens, early 20s, I was starting like raves and warehouse parties. And I think like at, you know, that stage in my life, my kind of two primary passions were music and like health and wellness. I ended up going the health and wellness direction just because when I analyzed it, I was like, I think I can have more positive impact going down this route. And so ultimately I guess there's like more public utility there. And so that's like what I think I want to do. Yeah, the dropping out of college thing is interesting because actually it was on the back of this show I threw. I saw this guy in the crowd and I was like, huh, that's interesting, dude. I don't know why, but whatever. And then I see him a couple weeks later at Whole Foods, start chatting. He's taking over this 1500 person theater in the town that I work in. He liked my show and he wants me to come down and apply to be co executive producer. Cool. Whatever. Cool. So I go down like, long story short, this guy ends up becoming my mentor, but he's actually like a black civil rights activist who won the Supreme Court case by himself, no legal representation in the 1980s named Edward Lawson. He's deceased now, but. And actually I was quite inspired by him. And the thing that I was inspired by was didn't have a law degree. He didn't get legal representation. He just went to the Berkeley law library, studied law, and then argued this case to the Supreme Court and won. I was like, that's fucking like, you know. And then also growing up poor, I'm like, so. I'm like, so I'm just like, like just a cash machine to these colleges. No. You know, no. I have, I love education. I do not like how it's turned students into piggy banks. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't want to be in debt forever. So that's why I dropped that combinations, why I dropped out of college. But I also read it's actually the founder of Clif Bars book.

Okay.

Because I don't even think that I knew that, like you could be an entre. That that was a thing, you know, and it was, it's like the white roads and going past. Let's travel. I'm like, well, that sounds like my shit. So I dropped out of college. My mom said, you're gonna be flipping burgers. I was like, I don't know. I feel like it'd be a fear based decision to go into school right now. And so I helped a friend start a kitchen company. But yeah, and then in terms of. A lot of people are attracted to beverage. I was attracted to beverage. It's kind of a stupid decision empirically, because most, you know, why do you think it's stupid? Only 2% of beverage brands make it to a million dollars in revenue. And only 2% of those make it past $10 million in revenue. So the Death Star shot, that is success in beverage is like, you know, it's really, really difficult. That's why I've been in the industry for a really long time. So I think what happens a lot of people is they get into that category and they're like. And then they get their ass handed to them, which absolutely happens. Has happened to me many times. And if they don't have something deeper to reach for, they're just like, you know, screw this too hard. I'm gonna go into accounting or whatever. But if you really, if you care about what you're doing and why you're doing it and you get back in there or you shift your business plan and attack it again, you know, then obviously each time you gain more experience, your chances of success go up. But. So I think that kind of combo is what got me on the entrepreneurial path.

Very cool. And I remember reading Online prior to starting alipop, that the Kombucha company, there's an acquisition and for context, and I'm curious to know your answer because I actually just sold my software company, got acquired just six weeks ago. Awesome, thank you so much.

Way out ahead of where I was.

I relate to you so much, man. I didn't go to college, I'm 22. Kind of had this shift in pursuing entrepreneurship when I was 16 after being in a neck brace, almost paralyzed, playing football and just down this path. And you know, this tech startup, though, we got acquired, announced it six weeks ago, and the whole team is now working at this, this cool marketing tech company called Viral Nation up in Toronto. And I always like to ask the question of transitions, right? Because I feel like I'm. I'm really in this right now of transitioning to now working inside this new company and like the different ideas and the different daily routine and the different things that come to you where like I signed up for a marathon and I'm like doing all these things that are just massively shifting who I am. And I think that comes with like those, like those big moments that happen in life, whether that's getting married or getting acquired, whatever it may be. But so for you, like that transition from the prior Kombucha company to Olipop, I'd love to hear some of, you know, what went on in your life. The thoughts, the ideas, the. The. Am I good enough? What's next? Just to get a. Get some context for maybe founders out there that are going through a transition in their own life.

Yeah, for sure. I think it's a great question and congrats again. It's fucking awesome to.

Thank you so much.

Gotten there. Seriously. I mean, knowing how hard it is. Yeah, I mean, for me, it's. For me, it boils down to. And this is going to sound slightly esoteric, but this is kind of how my brain works. It's like for me, it does boil down to meaning, right at the end, at the end of the day, it's like, what gives your life meaning? What gives your path meaning? And having. I guess it's really like having the courage to stand up for that and then having the pragmatism in terms of how to build your way towards that path and then that's what facilitates progression. So I also think it allows. Yeah, I think it allows you to just make. It's like, what's your baseline of your decision making? A lot of folks react to norms, which is never going to be an option for Me, there's a lot of facts. Folks react to pressures which there's a lot of pressure, but you kind of choose your pressure. You know, I'm just big on the self actualization, personal development spectrum as imagine you are. And you know, at the end of the day, it's. It's like you can use the. Like, if I'm looking back at this when I'm 80, what's gonna have mattered to me? Like, what's the thing if I didn't do, I'd be disappointed about. Or you know, what's the thing that's gonna make me feel like I found something that meaning, that had meaning. I mean, I'm. I'm quite existential, right? Like, I've never been able to choose a religion. I've never been able to choose a spirituality. But I'm also not quite an atheist because I'm really agnostic. I'm like, I have no clue. Clue. Like cynically I'm like, it's probably, it's probably just like I'm a bone sack and then I die. But it's. But like, you know, could be some other. Like, there's a lot also that I just had no clue about. I've had some like, weird experiences. So it's all just kind of like, like, you know, I almost feel like my own personal process is to really like, give my best and have the most, like, what is my form of respect to existence through how I live? And you know, even like, for example, like in my early 20s, between like my diet and my lifestyle, I got to a place where I like, knew how to be pretty happy and healthy. I knew how to be like, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I kind of got this shit online. I have this ton. I didn't know, but I'm like, I kind of have this. Arrogantly I said to myself, I kind of have this shit on lock. And I actually made like a conscious decision to like, allow myself to be less happy and to allow myself to experience more anxiety because I was like, you know, how nice for me that I get to have built up these skills and you know, these patterns to create this. And meanwhile, like, so much of the world is going through so much unnecessary suffering. And yeah, I. It actually be more. It's more painful to lean, to step back into it and to challenge myself. But at the like, again, end of life, reflection, that's what's gonna be the most meaning. And you know, you want your life to be a journey and you want your life to Be an adventure. I mean, I do at least. So I'm just like, it. Like, let's get back into it.

Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to ask you, is that an oura ring that you're wearing?

It is. It is an aura ring.

Yeah, I got one as well. I've been on just a kick of sleep dinner. I have the eight sleep mattress. I have the aura. I just got a cold plunge, all this stuff.

I'm having a sauna and a cold plunge installed at my house right now. So I finally got to the point in my life where I could afford to get a house. So I bought a house, which is super dope. But like 50% of the reason why is I'm like, because I want to have my own sauna and cold lunch. I've been on so many podcasts talking about saunas and cold plunges and how much I love extreme the thermo, you know, thermic.

No way.

Yeah, hopefully in a couple of weeks here. Yeah, I'm big on data too. Like, I had my hormones tested, my blood tested, DEXA scan, max VO2 base metabolic rate, fecal sample. I've been tracking my macros and my sleep and my exercise for months. I mean, one issue I have is I generate way too much cortisol, probably as a byproduct of my life. And just the way my nervous system is balanced, so that creates weight fluctuations for me, despite the fact that I eat super clean and I exercise all the time. So I've been working with a health coach. Like, what the hell is going on? As we ran this part, we ran all this data and it's like, yeah, you've got cortisol above 10,000. And so it kind of doesn't matter, like, what you do. Your body's always like going to be holding on to stuff. So that's actually part of what I'm hoping so on and the cold lunch help with because that stuff really resets my nervous system.

Wow. I can just. So cool. Because, I mean, I know you talked about at the beginning of like, you've lived this in terms of, like, what led to Olipop. And just hearing you listed so many tests just now that I've never even heard of, I'm like, wow, you really do live this. And I find it so fascinating because, I mean, not only are you the founder, but you're the one that's guiding this vision and the purpose of what you're building. And so kudos to you. And it's so cool to see that those crops in such an organic way outside of work, growing up, family, influences, guidance, mentors, what has impacted you, inspired you, or cultivated some of your early thought processes about business life and just all the things that we're talking about today. Because I think you have such a great mindset about who you are and you're very self aware based on our 20, 30 minute conversation thus far. So I'd love to hear from you. Whereas what are those early mentors and influences that have impacted your life in a big way?

Yeah, so I mean from the business I would almost, I mean they're integrated for me, but I'd separate them a little bit. So from the business side I would say I'm like not, I'm not actually somebody who like super, super cares about business for business. I see. I basically just like I'm all about impact admission and just ran the math on hey seems like we put a lot of attention and power into money. Seems like we put a lot of attention and power into corporations. It's also perfect vehicle, you know, therefore to transmit something, something positive which is where this whole system effectively needs to go. So that's actually the only reason I really got into business because it just seemed like it's same. Same thing with soda. Like it's like this is a really effective vehicle for actually creating, being a change agent, you know, for life. It's a little more complicated because yeah, I mean I, I gloss over my childhood, but it was, it was rough. Like my father died when I was young and I grew up actually a pretty trau environment and you know, and as I think a lot of entrepreneurs do, which is an interesting kind of like correlation but I think, you know, choosing to develop out of something like that, like having real exposure to what real severe suffering looks like and feels like, you know, it gives me. And then having worked my way out of it gives me just the tremendous amount of it gives. It generates like layers and depth around and an urgency around the desire to actually make the world a better place. Because it's not just about. It's not some like concept. It's you know, like I could just easily not be here. You know, it's like. Or things could be massively worse. And so I think that always just kind of keeps me just, you know, grounded. I don't, I don't think, you know, it just keeps fuel and it keeps fuel in my engine. Like I just don't think I'll ever not kind of be able to be actively engaged in that way and but it also has created A platform where in that process, I realize I really get to choose my life. And if you really like. And I get to choose my actions. And in fact, even just having choice and recognizing the power of choice is incredible. Like, the value of your time and how limited is. And the power of your choice, they're incredible. And people just, like, gloss over it and turn on the TV and do whatever. But that's some powerful shit. And I think even just sometimes grappling with some of those things that seem fundamental or obvious, but truly recognizing the depth that's there is. You know, like, I have a big fan of JG Ballard, you know, because he was like a. He's an author. I don't know if you're familiar, but, like, so Hitchcock revolutionized horror. Because Hitchcock, you know, basically made horror movies occur in. In, like, natural environments. Right? So it wasn't a thing from, like, Mars anymore. It was like someone getting murdered in a shower. JG Ballard basically did that with science fiction. So instead of, like, some big space tale, it was like, there's a wormhole in a closet, and there's a concept that comes out of that. Like, the mystery and the mundane, where it's like our brains are optimized for being calm and having a rational, locked view on the world. The second you really start digging and digging deeper. So much of the fundamentals that seem like static states that are around you suddenly have all these layers of depth behind them. Interactions, choices, thought processes, patterns.

Yeah.

And so there's a ton to mine just being alive. If you're, like, paying attention and you're engaged.

I love that so much. What a great answer. I do want to be respectful of time. Two more quick questions before we wrap up here, Ben. One is just thinking about the future of Olipop. What excites you the most?

I mean, what will excite me? So some stuff is a little under the COVID so I'll answer slightly nebulously for sure. But I mean, honestly, again, it's all about impact. Like, there's. We get written. We have people writing to us on such a regular basis with these stories that literally, like, you start. You bring tears to your eyes. Like, actually, this is another great example. It's like, oh, yeah, it's sodas. Whatever we got. We got this. This woman who wrote in that, you know, like, her grandma had terminal cancer. She was in hospice, and she was in a lot of pain. It was terrible. But she. They would. The only thing she could actually drink and keep down was Olipop for whatever Reason. And so they would bring her root beer Ollipop every day. And they wrote into that space. And being like this, it's really the only, some of the only times we saw our grandma smiling our last couple months of life was when she was drinking a root beer Olipop, because the root beer reminded her of these really treasured moments in her childhood.

Wow.

Soda is super powerful. You know what these brands have figured out is that like a customer really can only have so strong of a relationship with the brand. What soda's been so smart about is they've managed to wedge themselves in to people's early attachment memories. You know, the time with their friends, the time with their family. And that's so much more powerful than a brand. And that's so that's why when like the mountains of data hit people and say like, this is not good for you and you shouldn't drink a liquid cake in a cannibal, well, they kind of shove it off because it's become part of their identity. So being able to create mass scale behavior change that is really positive and healthy for people effectively without destabilizing them and hopefully, fingers crossed, being able to disrupt a couple of industries that need disruption. And I am going after a couple of them. Those, those things are the most exciting to me.

Very cool. Well, I love hearing that. Very, very thoughtful answer. Last question is just if you were to go back in time and give your younger self a piece of advice before starting Olipop, specifically, what would that advice be and why?

People ask this question. I should have an answer ready. Oh, I mean, one thing. So I mean for sure, when I was younger, I was too arrogant and that arrogance was born out of insecurity, which is just how that equation works, by the way. It's like that's all arrogance is. It's actually always insecurity. So I probably talk to myself about that equation a little bit more because I think that would be helpful and, but ironically, simultaneously I would have advised myself to listen to listen to myself more also, you know, because one of the reasons you feel more insecure is because you're, you're actually not really listening to yourself or you have doubts about, you know, maybe about your instinct, about your intuition. And so that kind of creates that disconnection which can actually drive the insecurity. So there's a whole cluster there that I've learned a lot around as I've just aged and had experiences and experienced some modicum of success. And yeah, I think that would have been a useful conversation.

Love that. Well, Ben, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today. I know we've been. I've been looking forward to this for a while now, so I appreciate your time and for everything that you do. And you got a loyal fan, customer.

And support over here.

So excited to keep sharing the word. And thank you so much for making it happen today.

Yeah, no problem, Casey. Thanks for having me on. Good questions.