Brandon Sawalich - CEO of Starkey on The Future of Hearing Tech & AI Innovation

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I have a very special guest, Brandon Sawalich, the president and CEO of Starkey. Brandon, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Thank you, Casey, and happy to be here. This will be fun.

I'm glad to hear, man, I. I know you and the team came out, which I'm very grateful for. And, you know, when I was diving into your story, I was truly inspired because as someone that has interviewed so many great people and diving into the stories to hear the background and the 30 years that you've put in at Starkey, to then your grandmother being in the hearing industry since the 1950s, it just speaks to the depth of industry knowledge and really life expertise that you and the team have brought to the table. So I just wanted to start by saying I'm inspired by your story and very excited to dive in today.

Well, I'm honored that you have done more homework than most I've talked to. And yes, my grandmother started in the industry 1959. And when, you know, she opening a hearing aid office when hearing aids were not, you know, where they started for the stigma and they were for old and you're disabled and also when, you know, women weren't getting. Couldn't get loans. Wow. And, you know, she was up against a lot. So I, I like to think, and I know I have her DNA take after a lot, but very, very much a lot of respect and admirer.

Absolutely. And to really just speak at a high level for, for those who. Who may not know, you know, Starkey, you guys are the number one hearing aid manufacturer here in the U.S. you guys have been in business since, I believe, 1967 is when the company started, Correct?

Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Talk to me about where Starkey is today in terms of AI, the products that you guys have, and the slate of, you know, where you spend time as CEO. But really, before we dive into the story in the business, I like this.

I like starting off like this because hearing aids are cool. And I say hearing aids because you mentioned manufacturer. And that is really, you know, over the decades, what Starkey and others were. We're a technology company now. Manufacturing and others is part of what we do. So we have to have the technology with AI and, you know, deep neural processing and other advanced technology that, you know, really pushes the edge of what can be done with better hearing. And so that's where we're focusing on is really the technology part. And it's cool. I mean, it's not, you know, the hearing aids that, you See in the media, on TV or what you think of. I always, like in the movie up. Yeah. The big piece of bubble gum and it whistles or something. It's. No, it's, it's cool stuff. And it's not just for, you know, you're not old. It's, it's a superpower. Yeah. So there's a lot of things and possibilities we could do.

Absolutely. And, you know, speaking on, like, the new product that you guys came out with last year, Edge AI. In this world of AI, you and the team have this AI word and phrase. This is not new to you and the team. You've been doing that in the technology field since, I believe, 2017, 2018. What about AI now in 2025 in terms of the timing, in terms of the advancement of technology? How do you think about AI and the technology side of what you're doing versus where you were 5ish year, you know, five, eight years ago.

When we started, you know, eight years ago, it was, you know, in our business, it was incremental improvements. You, you do a little on sound improvements. And I wanted to take a swing at the fences. We wanted, you know, be bold, you know, and hired our new cto. I'm not new anymore, but then Achin Bomac from Intel and in our industry too, there's, there's five hearing eight companies, and we're the only, as you mentioned, us, owned, operated. And it's easy to hire, you know, within the industry to get somebody who knows it and wanted to be different because I could see that the type of technology and talent, where we wanted to go and what we could do, because hearing is, is humanized. It's, it's individual. You hear different than I do. Your ears are different. It's like a thumbprint.

Yep.

And we wanted to, you know, really look at what I could do then. So we're, I think, on our seventh generation when people weren't talking about AI. So now I see this. Friendly AI is what I liked about this. We're not doing big bad, you know, things that people like to, you know, assume about AI because it's analyzing what's going on in the environment for you. So it's, it's your, it's really where I see it going. You know, my son is 18 and I'll admit I, you know, I liked it too, but all the 22 Marvel movies. Yep.

I love it.

Love it. Think of it, Jarvis. Yep, that's where it's going. That's what it's going to be. It's going to be a personal assistant.

It's. It's so cool to hear. And I know we. I could dive into. We'll get into all the. The fun, exciting tech stuff because, you know, I love personally, and I believe listeners out there do as well. This all started, as I mentioned, right, 1967. Bill Austin, founder of the company, who I know you've had a very close relationship with over the years. When it comes to the company where it is today, you guys are private. You've been around for decades. Like, bring us back to when you first stepped into the Starkey ecosystem. Now, over 30 years ago, was this an industry that you were excited about? How did you think about the future of it? Or bring us back to young Brandon?

No, I didn't want to be in the hearing aids back then. I mean, candidly. And I, I say this publicly and talk about it because, you know, you're. People have a plan they think they had, and, and there's more pressure now than ever to like, okay, what am I going to do? I got to, you know, get a road map my goals. You're not going to take time, be patient, because whatever your plan is in your 20s, it's going to change your 30s, it's going to change in your 40s. I didn't want to be CEO. I didn't think I'd be CEO. I wasn't going to, you know, I'm going to be CEO.

Yeah.

When I started Starkey in 1994, it was a. I was an intern, just a summer job. I finished one year of college and was going to go in back for the second. Now, you know, I had a lot of fun because I enjoyed what I was doing, because I was. I felt I had a purpose and I had responsibility. And my whole life, I've always, you know, growing up independent and liked not, you know, whether it was, you know, kickball or wiffle, you know, pick the, pick the player. I like that responsibility and some say be in charge, whatever, but I enjoyed what I was doing. And so I stayed at Starkey. Uh, Bill said, well, I want you, you know, we had a new product at the time and help out with these classes and training I did. So I'll take, you know, I'll go in January of 95.

Okay.

Go back, skip year. Well, 30 skip years later.

Wow.

And, you know, each year is different and I don't regret. There was a period where I felt still that I've. I needed to go back. But when I got over, that was really probably Covid.

Okay.

And right before that, because you know, your priorities become very clear, very quick and then common sense and what did you think you have to do? Come and play. So you know. Yes, entrepreneur. Bill Oss was entrepreneur. He didn't get into the industry to start Starkey or build a global company. He got into it to help people and he wasn't getting the type of service and repairs from other manufacturers. So he started his own repair lab. And then it just grew into the company.

I remember hearing he acquired this hearing lab in the early days. Is that correct? $13,000, is that right?

Yeah. Yes. 13,000 he required from a gentleman named Harold Serkey.

Bring us like, because I was curious about that, right? Like when you hear acquisitions out there today, Obviously you hear 13, 13 grand. You're like, what, what did you acquire? Like what is this origin story of an acquisition or why did it make sense? I was so curious about that.

It was an ear mold company. So back in the 60s you had a behind the ear hearing aid and you had the ear mold piece and there was a technician that understood and re engineered basically nowadays he. He acquired it for ip is that you would say he re engineered how to pour a ear mold shell hollow because you would have to pour it solid and then hand grind it out so it could fit into somebody's ear. And gentleman's name was Paul Jensen. And actually he was my first boss when I was an intern, Starkey. And he acquired for $13,000 because of Paul and how they made ear molds. And the owner was Harold Starkey. And Bill would say it wasn't worth 3,000. I always joke, I tell him, your ROI is okay, you got it.

Yes, yes.

And that was really the beginning. And he kept it, quite frankly, entrepreneurial mindset. It was already llc. He didn't want to pay the money for a new company and he didn't want to name a company after himself. So he kept the name. Wow.

I think it's so cool to hear that in a world of consolidation and modern M and A and just bringing, bringing the listener back to that point in time. Just so cool to hear. When I saw that, I was like, wow, that's so unique. I want to bring something back to today. We're talking about downstairs a little bit that I felt there was alignment from the early days of Starkey. So and not to go on, you know, sad note, but what's happening here in Los Angeles as of this recording, we have Palisades fire, all these fires and something that you and the team were doing. And I'll let you expand on it in terms of providing hearing aids for people that are like, maybe in need or lost them during the fires. I remember reading Bill the first hearing aid that he ever created. Gave it away.

The first hearing aid appointment he started in the industry in 61.

Okay.

To go out and sell hearing aids for his Uncle Fred in Minneapolis. Because Bill was going to go to the university. He was going to the University of Minnesota to be a doctor. Okay. And his first appointment to go out. Testimony's hearing. This was his income. Yeah. And it was a gentleman. He knows the address, he knows the gentleman's name, everything to this date. And he went in, tested him. The. The gentleman needed a hearing aid. He couldn't afford it. Gave it time.

Wow.

You know, you gave it to him for free. Paid it for it out of his pocket to his. To his uncle.

Wow.

And so really, that's been, you know, it wasn't even. So it was just natural for him. And that's. That's our culture. That's who we are, is giving back and caring. And you mentioned that the fires. It's just, Just watching. It's. I. It's. It's beyond tra. Tragic. It's. It's, you know, what we do around the world is giving back. There's business and then there's philanthropy. Right.

Yep.

And really, it's caring. And at Starkey, being privately held, our priorities are what's best for the patient, is best for our customers, is best for Starkey. It's not what's best for the shareholder. Best for the invest. You know that. And that's okay in business because sometimes you have to do that. But other, you know, Hurricane Helene, North Carolina, everything that's going on, we did the same thing and we do it, you know, when there's, you know, those in need.

Yeah. It's. I find it that there's so much of that philanthropic caring, as you would say, like, baked into the culture and DNA of Starkey.

It comes back. Right. I don't even think twice about it. You know, we sent out and we were doing it, and we have great customers out here in LA that have been helping people. And we've been doing it since. Since it started. And I'm watching on the news and over the weekend, and I was like, I gotta say something. Yeah, right. And put that out there. And, you know, I didn't. The math and business and what it cost. Doesn't matter. It'll come back.

Yeah, that's so. That's Great to hear. To pivot a little bit in the stance of business. You mentioned something just now which I'm curious about. You guys have been around for decades. You emphasize this idea of being privately held and the benefits of that. Why have you guys ever considered going public or from the business side of private. Public. Maybe talk to the audience and myself of like what that's looked like over the years. Why have you remained private and kind of your. The vision. Excuse me, the. The company's viewpoint on that.

I could go several approaches here. You know, there's always rumors in our industry and circles and even sometimes with employees. They're setting the company up for ipo. They're setting. They're going to sell the company. I've been, you know, at Starkey for 30 years and around Bill a little bit longer. There has not been one conversation of any of that. Wow. Not one. And there's always speculation. People have opinions. But no, because you lose your soul as a company. Who you are from a. Your values and what the company is about if we went public or sold the company. But even you go public, everything changes. I can't instantly decide to put out on X that we're going to replace all hearing aids out here for the. In the fires. Yeah. Because you have to go through a process and, and Bill is entrepreneur. We. And I could say that's going to Joker on Only Child. So it's his sandbox. He doesn't want anybody else playing a sandbox. And you know, he's. He's a very active 82 year old that is right now in Minneapolis seeing Patience right now. And that's what he wants to do. He said, he tells me, I trust you and the team and if there's anything that you need, come ask. But I don't want to see a P and L. I need to, you know, I mean, and he says that, you know, it's, you know, I talked to him the other day about our, our year and stuff, but he doesn't want to re. He's done. Been there, done that. Yeah. He's 82. He wants to spend the time that he has, you know, doing what he wants.

I just get the chills even hearing that because when we were talking downstairs before the show, I was telling you a story about my interview with Larry King. And yes, you know, I always like to reference. He was 87 when I interviewed him. I was 19 years old.

The history, the people you talked to. The history.

Yeah, not even just that, but just to, to emphasize your point of Bill Right. Like great people, these leaders, they are doing it and their passion for life shows up in how they live. And I'm curious to know personally, your viewpoint on that, as well as being around Bill and so many great people, customers that you guys work with. I can just say firsthand when I look at someone like, such as Larry King, when I interviewed him, he was 87. He didn't need to be sitting down with me. He could be doing anything with his time. But he loved conversations, the art of the question, being a great listener. And I felt that so clearly when sitting down with him. And when, you know, when you talk about Bill, I just, I. I feel that same level of passion and love for what he does every single day and for the company overall.

You can't fake that because Larry King is Larry King. He could have came in and out and, you know, thanks for the discussion. No, he had a per. That was. His purpose, was, you know, getting to probably ask you some questions, getting to know you. The human aspect, that's what it's all about. And, and it's about purpose. What I found over the years is your purpose. It's not about being the hearing. It's about helping others. Some people have other purpose, it's fine. But what is your purpose? Don't chase the money. Chase. You'll start with your purpose and everything else falls in place, you know, and other people have other goals and aspirations, that's fine. But why not? How fun is it to wake up every day knowing you're gonna have ups and downs, but knowing that you're doing exactly what you enjoy doing and what you should be doing and what you're good at?

It's. It's a great, great to hear that point and something I want to dive into this aspect of people. We talked about, we talked about it downstairs. I was going to bring it up, but I talked about a little bit. You were, I believe, in your teenage years when you picked up Walter Cronkite from the airport. Bring us back to that experience and how that impacted you as, you know, someone that's young, being around these influential people and learning from them.

I did a talk, I think it was on Saturday, and I mentioned Walter Cronkon, Cronkite. Somebody said most of people, it was a large sorority group and who's partners with the foundation also probably didn't know who Walter Cronkite is. But, you know, it was. That was in 90, 96. So I was 20, 21. And I'm a history buff. I like history and the books I read are people that have been there, done that.

And as you can see around here.

Yeah. Quite the biography, biographies, autobiographies, world history, American history. And I know there's books that, you know, kind of, it's a business for some and ideas sure takes one or two. But there's very few people that have kind of. Larry King, you mentioned Walter Cronkite. Think of all the leaders that have over the decades have had an opportunity to do the same thing. And I knew with Walter Cronkite, you know, American President. Yep. And I talked to him, I think it was from Kennedy, Kennedy forward.

Wow.

About each one asked him questions and he was the nicest man. I mean he told me also that he goes, most people that don't know this and it's in his book, but he almost took a job in Minneapolis as a news anchor.

Wow.

And then somebody from CBS called and that's how I got to CBS in New York. But he goes, I almost did not make it to New York because I was going to take a job here in Minneapolis. Wow. So, Yeah, I was 21. And you know what? I was a gopher for the day, I want to call it. And but I got to spend the day with somebody that could help make me better based on the questions or just interest. I, I, I didn't look at it like, well, this is beneath me. What am I doing? No, it's just helping. You know, I got absolutely spent the day with a, an icon.

Yeah.

You know, there's, I relate to that. There's very few of those left. And you know, most people don't know this. I'll give you some insight. Is Queen Elizabeth, last couple months before she passed were our product though.

Wow.

They'll fit her.

Wow.

And you think of incredible from Walter Cronkite to Queen, Queen Elizabeth. How many more people that span that generation that knows Queen or have met people that could talk about those discussions.

Yeah. The business of Starkey and the product itself, you know, it's one thing to learn from someone, get to know them, but your product, from the Queen to the, you know, young individual that may have lost his hearing. And I don't say this lightly, it truly is life altering and life changing. I mean, I heard you talk about with Dave Asprey just in terms of how impactful hearing is to the brain and how it prevent diseases or dementia. So when it comes to hearing itself and the import, the importance of it, you know, the products that you bring to customers, like let's, I wanted to really dive into this. Because when you were talking about in terms of the brain activity and the importance of it, outside of just, you know, how involved it is in terms of one of your senses. Talk to me about hearing overall and maybe some of the things people may not know about the importance of it to the brain.

So hearing, if you think of the five senses, it's connecting people with people. You know, Helen Keller once said that, you know, if you had to choose between, you know, you know, hearing connects people and it also feeds, you know, now as you mentioned earlier, Alzheimer's, overall engagement and mental health. Yep. And it feeds the brain. So when you have a hearing loss, over time you start forgetting sounds, whatever it might be. And you also draw n word loneliness. It's not talked about because you're not going to ask questions. You know, you just start disengaging. And what we do is bring people together. And so whether you're 14, 20, 40 or 70 years old, you need to hear, you need to be engaged for society, for life, for your family, your profession, you know, go down the list. And it's not in the, you know, the stigma that we talk about is, you know, people, you know, you didn't, maybe didn't even know I was wearing this. But I wear it proudly because I want people to ask me. They're so small, discreet, and, you know, years ago they were much bigger. And that's what is in people's minds.

Absolutely.

It's not about that. This is the hold it up real.

Quick just for the camera so we can see it.

This is the vehicle, it's the technology. And what it does, it helps you perform. You know, my aspiration is that the products and the technology is the best. I want to be, you know, in five years, I want to say I want to be 10 years ahead. You know, I don't feel Starkey needs to compete. We lead. And I want people to be the best they could be each and every day because that helps the world. Society is as corny and hokey as that sounds. It's true. Because there's more good than bad. I've been on, you know, we talk about, you're in the U.S. and globally, there's 450 million with hearing loss, aging population. By 2050, they predict 900 million. And so people are like, oh, you're in a good business. Well, if we could help people upfront too, with noise induced hearing loss and protection, hearing protection, but also help people that can't afford hearing aids. And Starkey has the starkey Earring foundation. And I've been on many missions since 1997 and in Africa. And you talk about a purpose and when you see somebody here for the.

First time, what they call it, a hearing smile.

Yeah, the hearing smile. You. You see that and you see. But you see it in their eyes first. And it's literally somebody that could be 20 year old, 10 year old, or it could be a mother that's never heard sound because she had an infection at the age of two or one, whatever it might be, and has never heard her child's voice. And you're sitting there and we put a hearing aid on and people think, you know, they're deaf or. Yeah. And hearing aids and deafness. It. It. If you're deaf, it's. You're deaf. Right. And hearing aids aren't about that. And we put hearing aids on somebody and you turn that on and they hear their child's voice or they say, hear mama or dad. I don't care who you are. How tough. It's. It's one of those. I'm not crying. You're crying. I mean, it's just everybody. It's emotional because it's a light bulb. It's like, it's. You see that. I can't even imagine. It's addicting. It's a day you want to keep doing that. And that's what they do on the foundation, we see it, you know, also on, you know, the business side. So what we do is purposeful work. And I have the honor of, you know, yes, CEO and president, but I work for 5,000 people. The way I look at it. Yeah. You know, that's. I. They will tell me if I'm doing the big.

Absolutely. Just hear, hear what you said as well. I know I interjected a little bit, but you call it the hearing smiles.

Yeah.

You know, I believe. I think first time I saw a video, there's. I don't know if you know, the content creator, Mr. Beast. I think he did this video where he's like helping people here and, you know, donated a bunch of hearing aids. I remember seeing a clip about that and just how impactful that moment is. And when people experience that, what are some of the. Just. I don't even know how to describe it. Just you hear for the first time you look at a company like you're sorry. Yeah. Talk to me about that.

Yeah.

I mean, interactions, the.

It's. It's a range of emotions that happen in seconds and then they're calming down, trying to comprehend. I mean, really, it's, you know, I work with a lot of great people at Starkey, Our team of audiologists and our Chief Health Officer, Dr. Dave Fabry, and who's seen it all too. And it's really, when they hear that sound, it's, it's fear for. They don't know. And you see that. But then they figure, and it's just like, I'm okay, I'm not disabled. I, I, you know, because they've been told their whole lives and I'm talking other countries and there's a whole different situations, but they're told they're, you know, you know, I, I've been in, in China years ago, and there was a sign for, it was a disco, deaf, dumb and defective. How would you like to be labeled? I mean, no, and, and for whatever. No, it, it's a hearing loss. It's just somebody that, and it could, like I said, a, a simple infection they didn't have medication for or whatever it might be. It's ear loss.

Hearing that is. It's so interesting because I feel that myself and you know, probably most people growing up, you know, I think, oh, my, my grandfather needs a hearing aid or maybe, oh, like I'm not even going to think about the idea of it until it's maybe too late. And I was going to bring up, you know, I wear the, the whoop.

Yeah.

And I've been wearing it for the last two years. But in this era of wearables and like proactive care, I, I heard you talk about how, you know, how can hearing aids be impactful for CEOs to stay on top of their game, to, to be more effective? What do you mean by that when you say that in terms of how can hearing aids play a role and not just helping people who may have hearing loss, but helping people be more effective in the world of AI and how things like translation and all these different factors come into play.

So if you think about now, hearing aids are really what firsttime users average age around, let's say, 65 years. But most people, let's say you're four. I have a mild hearing loss. I talked, you know, there's one in six teenagers right now that have hearing loss with loud sounds and such. It's a, it's a, no pun intended, but it's a, it's a quiet pandemic and you can't get that back. And so the point is, is, you know, there's other health issues that are more urgent for everyone. And, you know, whether, you know, hearing Loss you're not going to die from. And so. Okay, it's, you know, the stigma. I'm going to be old. I don't need one do. And no. For me, you know, using myself as an example, it's my superpower. It's something where a five minute meeting, I can hear just a little bit better. It's more crisp, sharp, also optimized. I could take phone calls. I can listen to music so good. We also have 72 language that we could translate. We have fall detection. We have, you know, the ear is the new wrist, as I've said. You've probably heard say where. Track your steps, your activity, check your.

Steps from the hearing aids.

Yes.

Wow. That is incredible.

Yeah. Because I mean the ear is the, you know, really one of the ultimate pathways to overall health and wellness. We can do heart rate, we could do blood oxygen, we can. You can do a lot of different things. But the problem is, is I don't want it to be a Swiss army knife where you confuse a lot of people. You got to keep it focused. And what are people going to use? Because if you look forward, there's also detection using AI you mentioned.

Yeah.

On voice recognition for moods. Somebody depressed. Yeah. You know, is somebody, you know, what type of, you know, for those who have. Are caring for loved ones can use with the patient's permission, of course, that, you know, how is the mood and how is the overall state of mind of my mom, dad, grandparents. Yeah.

It's so cool to hear. Yeah. Someone that is cool stuff. Yeah. The future of what it is, the inflection point that we are at. It's. It's such a cool era.

It's not, it's not a microphone and amplifier, a receiver where you're just amplifying sound. It's a personalized computer inside your ear.

Wow.

And it's analyzing.

Yeah. I have. Before we get. I'll circle back to the text stuff, but something that I want to talk about is just all things leadership as CEO and something just to credit Larry King and even my main company today. Um, so my company is called listener.com and a lot of people may not know, but you know, I told you about Larry King, like one of the most impactful interviews in my life. And during that interview, a quote that not only stuck with me as an individual, but truly influenced, like how I'm continuing to do this show is he has a quote. He says, I've never learned anything while I was talking. Be a great listener. And that quote went so far to inspire how I go about my show in terms of not having questions that I'm holding and obviously is just being a true listener in conversation from this podcast Everyday Life. And just to take it one step further led to the name of my company right listener.com and chasing down this domain for probably 10 months. And I want to ask you, you know, it's one thing to hear, it's another to be a listener. And I want to ask you what does being a great listener mean to you as a CEO and also as a leader?

You know, I've had to in in full candor you get better over the years as you mature and as I tell as a leader you're going to make mistakes and you're going to fail more than you succeed. We started that from when we tried to walk. You fall down, get up and you know, Bill's provided me with a lot of I'll say room to make some mistakes. I like to think I provide there's times as a leader you think you have to. I'm a natural fixer. Right. So I like to fix things. Yeah. And as I've, as I've learned over the last 10 plus years is slowing down and listing more because I will I gotta watch myself from ear from a child like telling or doing or giving a solution instead of slowing down and listening. And that's really where you know being a CEO is asking the questions. But then listen carefully to the response on whether it's strategy, customer need or their own personal goals. Because as a leader, you know I, I talk to, I talk about this all the time is everybody has their own definition. I mean leadership absolutely innovation and I mean there's broad, you know and what kind of leader are you? And for me is you know, I don't want to, you know, you know, kind of I, I'm a, I would say servant leadership visionary. I look up and out but there isn't anything I wouldn't do that I would ask somebody else to do. I yeah you know, lead from the front and try and bring the best.

Out of people as I can on leadership. And even just your role over the last 30 years has changed so much. I would love to spend time with you know, what does your day to day, week to week look like and how does it change over the years from now being CEO organized chaos.

And I say, I say that where you, you have to I, I, I believe this is I, I know who I am and I know my how I think and personality and, and where I can move fast. I can Drag my feet. And I think my team now knows if I'm dragging my feet, I'm thinking or just waiting. I'm instinctively. I think or no, I, I'm good on timing and some things. But as CEO, it, it's. It's weird because I didn't ask to be CEO. I mean, of course I like I'm not CEO, but leave.

Yeah, of course.

You know, Bill approached me because he's had the title since 1967. There's no way. And I was, you know, I respect that. And him and, and even president I didn't ask for. He asked me. He goes, you're the obvious one. And, And I know that if I don't do a good job, I don't deserve that. And so as CEO, when I think it was 2020, right after Covid, he asked and or told me, I said, he goes, I would like for you to be CEO. Take this title. This is what's the right thing. And it hit me a lot, you know, and we kind of joked around because I was uncomfortable not doing it, but having that because that's sacred and you know. Okay, okay. And then when it was announced and you know, put out because. For people to, to know because I don't want to make a big deal about it. There was a big. Some party about it. Yeah. I was surprised. The weight that I didn't expect and what I mean by that CEO, how the people treated me differently with that title. Not in a bad way, but the sir or open the door. Just everybody come, you know, and, and, and. But then also because of how they see you out of the respect, the, the expectation that you kind of in your head, the prep that pressure is not the right word. Like, you know, the top.

Absolutely.

I don't feel sorry. It's just, it's just okay, it's. It's. Let's do this. Because I, I didn't think anything about it because for me, I just went in every day and did my job.

Absolutely. I find that so inspiring. And something that I, I wanted to ensure we touch on is, you know, in this world of social media and you know, for context, I know he said it earlier 24 and in the world of social media, things move so fast. Technology AI to think about longevity, whether in a career or as a founder and as an entrepreneur, like you've put in your time to not only be deserving, but to. To learn what it takes and to have the experience. And you know, I wanted to spend time on this thought of what is your Advice to young entrepreneurs, leaders in their careers when it comes to getting ready to make that jump in terms of the next role, the higher title, because you've seen it all. You know, when I look at your LinkedIn and I think there's a similar story of, I think the current CEO of Nike, he was an intern 30 years ago and now as CEO and I, I find that in very parallel and it's such a rare thing to see. And when I was, you know, getting familiar with your story, I find it so inspiring. So back to the question of what's your advice to young founders and also young leaders when it comes to thinking about their career and taking those steps up over. In terms of titles and experiences, don't.

Get enamored with a title. Be patient. Make decisions. Embrace failure, embrace change. Because what is now, just make yourself better. Because as I mentioned earlier, you know, I think the, I say this a lot. You know, the one quote from Mike Tyson that is very irrelevant is everybody has a plan until you get punched in the face. I've had a lot of plans and I got punched in the face. And you learn from it and it's okay. So, you know, for entrepreneurs and you know, really be patient, don't. Because social media and you see a lot of the books and all the posts, there's so much more pressure now to be successful and, you know, millionaire and all this sooner, you know, no, be sustainable. Take the long run. It's, it's, it's, you know, make and make decisions. Don't be indecisive. And if you fail, fail fast, learn from it and move on. Yeah, that's incredible.

I love that, speaking on making decisions and also like speaking to ve something that I, I love learning about, which is your son and his decision to be this incredible NASCAR driver. As, as a father, how does this feel to have your son in this world of NASCAR and really making a decision to be in this very, just exhilarating space?

Well, I, it's, it's surreal. I've got two great kids. Amelia's 22, William's 18, and Amelia's, you know, his biggest fan. And it was fan number one. And I thought it was, you know, he started carding and quite frankly, had people. How do you get into it? The movie Cars. Yeah, I've seen that thing more, more times than probably any movies since he was 2 years old. And he just always loved playing with Matchbox car, you name it. And watching him now it's a talent. And I was just with coach Joe Gibbs Two days ago. And I always love again, picking on leadership and talking to him about the teamwork and everything and what he did and you know, you've got to have the talent. He's with a great organization, but I was texting him on the way over to see you and he's got a, you know, Daytona is in less than a month and I'm like, you know, this is your year. You know, wow. First rookie in Xfinity. And you know, you've got the commit, you got the talent now the commitment, you got this. And you know, it's, it's, you know, as a dad and that's what I have to be. I'm dad.

Yeah.

And so, you know, and because he's got great people around him, Kevin Harvick and others that is giving him advice, mentoring, you know, as a dad, you know, you always. I've learned the social media stuff. Everybody has an opinion. Indeed. 18, 17 now. 18 year old. And I trust him. He's confident. He's, you know, his superpower is his emotional, intelligent. He's just focused and he can't, he's just. I, I always like James Dean is why Even when he, you know, I coached him, one thing I did, even though as busy is coached baseball and he wanted the ball, he wanted to pitch.

Yeah.

And he's just always even keel and he's humble and, and so I'm a his dad and fan. But it's you, you know, you worry about everybody else is what happens. Anything could happen in a split second. But the equipment and everything is so safe and, and, and proud. But what I appreciate is like, gosh, what I was doing at 18, it can't imagine. I mean, the pressure now, you know that interviews and autographs and all this other stuff.

That's so cool, you know.

Yeah. Proud dad.

Absolutely.

Sure. You get the nerves, but you gotta.

So yeah, no, it's, it's so great. Even to the point of like decisiveness. It's like his. Based on what I was understanding, he knew what he wanted. It's. His talent's obviously there and it's, it's really cool to see.

Yeah. So he's got to develop that and yeah, he goes, dad, when I'm out there, things just slow down like at 160 miles an hour. You know, just lines angle. He's just, it's, you know, it's fun to watch.

Absolutely. Very cool. I wanted to come back to the future of Starkey. You know, you brought up Jarvis and future of that and I think we're in this era, at least personally, I felt the last year, when you. And obviously a lot goes behind the scene years to get to this point, but when you see things like what SpaceX was doing with landing reusable rockets to robotics to then hearing aid in technology, that can come down to trans translating in real time. When you think about the future of Starkey, what excites you the most over these next five, ten years? I know we've touched on it here and there, but to really dive into the future of technology and the innovation that you plan for, but also the stuff that people may not even think about in terms of, like, what's possible in the future.

Well, we're, you know, right now you're, you know, We're a Class 2 medical device, a hearing aid. Of course, when I look ahead, I think of performance and it doesn't matter if you are, you know, teenager all the way up. What can we do to help not just with hearing, but, but as an overall health and wellness personal assistant. And I think the possibilities are endless because it's a world of connectivity. So think of instant translation. That's the biggest barrier between people right now. We have it now and there's a.

Little.

You know, we have a intermediate device, couple second delay, but it's very fast. But what if I'm just talking to you right now or anybody if I'm traveling and it's instantly telling me and translating into what I need and I could have a real conversation with somebody, or what if it's telling me other biometrics on my health that I could do something with? Right. You know, I'm trying to get in the whoop. I've. My, my son, okay, he's got the whoop. I'm like, what am I gonna do with all this? And really, it comes down to. For me, yeah, I need to get in the gym. I have no choice. You know, climbing. We're. We're gonna climb Kilimanjaro. I did that in 2015 when I was 40. So for my 50th. Oh, my God, December, better do it. Very exciting. You know, there's so much information, but people want to be their best selves personally. But everybody wants an edge. Don't pun intended. But they want an edge. And whether it's racing, because we're working with sports and other stuff on, on what could be. The possibilities are. And it could be in a boardroom or whatever business. Everybody wants that advantage. Everybody wants that advantage. So really comes about giving that performance on hearing or think about this, the possibility Minnesota Vikings are playing the Rams tonight in Arizona.

Okay.

Crowd noise and all that. What if offensive linemen had devices that drowned out the background noise and they could hear the quarterback. Wow. So I mean that's one just a one half, right?

Absolutely.

So there's a lot of different things that we can do with hearing of five senses that we know the ear better than anybody. And at the end of the day too, the ear is in charge, the patient's in charge. What can we do to help them?

Speaking of noise canceling, I think as a society, at least from my own experience, when Apple came out with noise cancellation in the AirPods for me, I was like, whoa, that's really cool. And then I want to get your take on there was the AirPod is a confirmed medical device that they're hearing over.

Over the counter hearing it registered device. So that was new in the last two years official new category.

What's your viewpoint on that?

And frankly, over the counter has been around for decades. It's. But it's a little different now. To me what Apple's doing, I applaud that we partner with Apple on are prescriptive and premium products from Starkey. What they're doing now, I applaud because it brings awareness to people that okay, let's make it cooler. Right. And it's a feature of one of their main products wherever they decide decide to go. And so Rod it does is and not just Apple but others. It's many others provide an over the counter type product. And for some it's, it's unfortunately it gives hearing aids a bad rap too. Not Apple but other cheap, cheap products that people are just trying to get some revenue. Yeah. So they throw it in their drawer and they think it's a hearing aid. It causes confusion. But what it does is say it. You know, somebody has it. You know, they raise their hand and say I have a hearing loss, I have a need.

Yeah.

And where it can go is kind of that advancement. Right. Is something that's personalized for you and it's not a feature because we have to make complex simple and we have to design, engineer, manufacture and deliver a product that somebody forgets they're wearing for 14 hours a day and fits comfortably because anything is rare. Like with, you know, any type of AirPod type device. You kind of feel it. Yeah. Battery life. We have the best battery life lithium ion at for 51 hours.

Wow.

And all day. And also the other thing that's over or not thought about is ours is 100% waterproof, and you're dealing with hairspray, sweat, more, everything. And it's gotta, you know, perform and get around all of the other, you know, items that people think. And that's what we're good at. That's.

It's really to think about, like, creating a product that you just have to feel like it's not even there. Like, to be that level of, like, user experience.

Invisible. Yeah.

It's transactically.

It's gonna be transparent. And I just. I forgot I was wearing mine until I just said that word. Because that's the thing is it's not about the device. It's the fit, the feel. Yeah. And that's. That's the overrated part. That's why there's hearing healthcare providers that are good at, you know, customizing that fit to the ear. Because like I said, every. Every year is different.

When was the first time you put in a hearing aid yourself? And what was that experience? Oh, yeah.

Oh, I built a hearing. I mean, a part of my internship. So everything back in the 90s, it was, you know, more I felt plugged, to be honest with you. It was different. It was different time, different era. Because custom hearing aids were 80% of the market. Starkey was the best. So then you have to vent. And I probably didn't build the hearing aid right now. It's flipped where over 80% are the buy in the air, tiny little wrecks and serves me is the best out of the five and really the only ones that still continues the art of a custom product. Because sometimes people want a custom hearing aid that's way down in the air because you get the pinna effect where right now you're, you know, the microphone's up here. And so there's certain situations where that's still very viable. Some people are vain and they don't want, you know, like me, I know my hair might cover it, but I.

Have some extra over here.

You're good. But some people want the. What you call a completely canal, you know, very small. Yeah. It's like you kind of see it on movies. They mock it up where, like, you know, somebody's talking and they pull it out. But Starkey's the only one that really continues to master that art. But we're still, you know, now a complete technology company, and they can pick whatever style that it wants to come.

Yeah. Very cool. A couple more questions before we wrap up here. One thing that I'm curious about, which, if people made it this far and they're still listening. In terms of everyday hearing health, what can people do leaving this interview for themselves but maybe even for their family when it comes to being proactive about hearing health, when it comes to concerts, when it comes to headphones that you're wearing, what are some maybe three takeaways that someone walk away from from this conversation about understanding hearing health and being practical about it.

If you think you have a problem or missing out meaning and it's usually a spouse or family or loved one, just get a hearing test. It takes five, six, it's, it's not a, a big thing because what you can gain and really how we're being very positive and thinking forward on hearing health. It's not about hearing loss, it's what's the hearing gain, how can I improve my performance and get a hearing test and if you need help, do something about it because they're cool. There's not what you think they are. And you will see what you're missing out. Because the other thing that people don't realize with hearing else is balance. Because if you're hearing just you, you don't think about it but when you walk you hear your, your feet on the floor. So when you know you, you know. And this happens a lot in yes the older demographic but balance and falls issues also surroundings, being self aware, driving, I mean you name it. Because you forget I'm not going to die. I'll be fine, I'll manage. It doesn't take much. Just go get a hearing test, just get it checked out or even during a routine physical and you go to you know, starkey.com where you know, we sell, you know, to hearing health care professionals. So I'm, I'm saying that website for really education. Yeah because you know, it's understand what hearing good hearing health could do for you and perform better.

On the note of education around Starkey, before we wrap up here, I want to end with the question of when you think about the future, both personally and on behalf of Starkey, of course. What excites you the most as you think about the future, about the products, the customers and overall being in this role as CEO.

I don't have a, I don't have a box I have to stay in. And what I mean by that I got Starkey has great talent and the culture and the people are there because they want to be. The possibilities are endless because what we can do with where we're at with technology, we're talking with other companies and it's really about the Technology and the software and the app and other things that could help people get connected. We're just talking about phones now and we're talking about music and everything. I mean then than TVs. You could a lot of different ways. Yeah. That can help people do better in their jobs and in their, with their families, you know. And for, for me personally, what I'm enjoying more. Yes I'm, I'm kind of a, you know, I, I, I don't know. I like to think about what could be right. Not always right by any means. Probably frustrate the hell out of my team. But Sarkey's got a great team is what could be. But also sharing my experience because I've been, I've been at the, you know, tops of the mountain, no pun intended with Kilimanjaro, but down and walk through you know, a lot of issues and it's sharing that experience because I see now the people that we bring on and you know, whatever generation we're in the 20s the stuff a lot of bright minds, attention spans are shorter which is okay optimize but be patient and just sharing those experiences doing things like this.

I know that going on because I've been there.

I've been like I want this or I want that office. I want this job. You know, it does. The title does not define you. It's the work you do. A title is that and you have to earn it and you have to perform, help others.

Very well said. And on that note, Brandon, I just want to say once again, I know I said at the beginning but I truly appreciate you so much for taking the time to come out here. I'm inspired by your personal story, the company, what you guys have done and of course what, what's, what's to come.

Well, I appreciate you because you great memory on your homework. You've asked me a lot of questions that many haven't and, and your interest in genuine. So thank you for what you're doing. I appreciate that you're doing exactly what I just mentioned, sharing experience and I appreciate telling my story, of course.

Thank you. And last but not least, for people to connect with you to learn more about Starkey. Where's the best place for everyone to stay in touch, Learn more overall about.

Starkey.com and then my social media it's with my last name it's pretty easy. Brandon Swallich. You'll find me so I'll be sure.

To link it down below. Okay, well thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate your time all right.

Thank you, Casey.