Charlie Walk - Music Mastery & Billboard’s Power 100 List

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Culture record, and culture wasn't even a word at the time. Like, culture's like Nike, Nike culture off white Virgil. You know, back then, like, saying the word culture was like, what? So, you know, just, you know, that's the one common thing that hasn't changed with technology. It's having the balls to stand up and go with your gut at all times and understanding who you are, believing who you are, and carrying out who you are.

What's going on, everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the podcast. And Today we have Mr. Charlie walk with us here today. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Happy to be here with the young gun.

For those who don't know Charlie, he is a legend not only in the music space, but in his life. He's truly built an empire. And just before we started off, this is the first podcast he's ever done. Is that correct?

Yeah, I just. I felt that you were the right guy to have a conversation with me. And also the generation you represent is so important to me and what I do and working with artists and musicians, and you guys are such leaders, why not be with one of the great young leaders?

Thank you so much. So I want to break it down because I think someone like myself, he hit me up on Instagram through our buddy, Dan Fleshman. Shout out to Dan, if you're listening, Dan.

You are killing it.

I love Dan. And he said, bro, he sent me a dm. I was like, dude, this is Charlie Wall. Send me a dm. I obviously knew who you were. Just love hip hop. Always been a huge hip hop fan. But I want you to just give a brief description and just give people an overview really quickly before you get into it.

About.

About. You've been in the music business for years and years, decades. You've been able to not only make some of the most famous people who they are today. But you've worked with some of the most amazing and talented people in the world, and not many people get that opportunity. And I believe someone like yourself who's been able to do that, you have a very different perspective, not only on the world, but on culture, on talent, on hip hop, because you're not only like the pioneer of it, but you've seen from nothing to superstar, right? So what would you say to people that are watching, like, when did you get started in that business and how did you get started in it?

I'll say that stars are born and not made. Okay, so you were born this way. That's why you're 18 now. 19, right? 19, 19. You're able to sort of execute your vision because you were born this way. An amazing doctor, lawyer, or a music man like myself. We were born this way. I came out playing the drums, playing the piano, singing. My father's a dentist looking at me. What is this kid doing here? And I find that the biggest stars in the world, athletes, right, they all have a certain brain chip, the DNA, I call it their personal DNA, that dictates their vision and what their journey is going to be. At eight years old, I found myself listening to an AM transistor radio. If you don't know what that is, Google it.

What is it?

It was a little radio, the funnel to hear music was just a radio at the time, right? There was no MTV, there was no YouTube. It was your local radio station dictating what you would hear or not. And then you had to make a decision of what they were playing, whether you wanted a little listen to it or not. So I found myself hearing these songs that first came out and making a decision if it was going to be a hit or not. And over time, I realized I was more often right than wrong. And with that chip of sort of being able to, I guess, elegantly predict pop culture in a certain kind of way, or be more right than wrong. And I realized that was my God given talent. So I was a frustrated teenager. You know, everyone's playing football, baseball and running around and I'm just there looking for hits, looking for stars in Newton, Massachusetts. And there ain't no stars in Newton, Massachusetts.

That's where you grew up?

Yeah, I grew up in Massachusetts. So I was thinking about like Hollywood. I was thinking about, you know, in that five mile radius where everybody lives, right? I call it the five mile radius in Hollywood. No, anywhere, anywhere in the usa. You know, you go to your local store and get the sub, or you go to church U Temple or your local McDonald's, and that's where you live. And I was trying to figure out how the hell to get out of there and be a part of the journey that I know that I could help deliver upon as it related to music. But the most important thing that I did, that my mom used to say to me was, charles, get an internship. And I kept on hearing that in my head as I went on my college journey. And my college journey to me was like an exercise because everyone else had to do it right. But I sort of took that lonely boy approach of, like, hearing things myself. And no one knew, knowing, no understanding what I was feeling and talking about that goosebump thing. And I. And I. And I. While I was in college getting a business degree, I set on a course to get the internships, the ultimate internships. And one was at CBS Records. They had a college rep position for $45 a week, where you get to be the New England college rep and you get to work with the seasoned professional marketing and promotion people. And again, at the time, there were record stores and there was radio. It was like radio and records. And that was the funnel. That was where they crossed bombs.

And that was music.

That was music.

And this is what year. So for people that are listening, oh.

Man, this was 1988, right?

88.

I graduated college in 90. I am Peter Pan. So I got to go to record stores and make displays and convince the manager to play the song of the artists we were displaying, because people would go to the store and look around and listen and be influenced to buy something. Imagine that.

There was no streaming. There was no itunes, Spotify.

There was radio. Someone put a song on the radio. There's no Shazam. They heard the radio and they went to the store to buy it. It was a one, two punch. So. So the funnel was really, really small. So I wanted to learn about retail. I wanted to learn about what happened sort of in the street in a record store and then how radio worked. So I had this CBS Records internship while I was getting a business degree. Then I'm like, what's the biggest radio station in Boston? I went to Boston university. It was Kiss108FM, America's megastation. That's what they called themselves. And they were just playing the biggest hits. And every record company would go there and try to convince them to play certain songs and break certain artists. And I just went for it and called up and asked to speak to the program director, Sunny Jo White and I got his assistant and she thought I was out of my mind. Calling every day and pounding and pounding, sort of doing what you do to get your point across. DM, nothing's really changed, right? Phone call, DMs. I got their attention where they reluctantly gave me an internship working for this famous program director, legendary Sonny Jo White. And I watched how records were being worked, how records got played, and I also understood how records got made. So it was a connectivity of made and played that gave me sort of this left brain, right brain approach to the business at a very, very young age. And what I got to see in my journey early on was I could work with Slick Rick to a Pearl Jam breaking out of Seattle, which was fascinating to me. And then New Kids on the Block down the street from me in Boston, where no one really knew how to break down the label at the time. The big boys at the label in New York didn't really know how to break this sort of local band that was put together. And there hadn't been a boy band break in the United States since the Beatles. So if you really think about that, the Beatles were boy band, right?

Yeah.

So I was fascinated by that process. And then I listened to the music of New Kids and I was like, well, how do I go out and create excitement in the local marketplace? Right. And again, if you weren't getting on the radio, how do you get to moms and daughters to create excitement, Right. And figure out a way where something would happen, something could connect in a local town. And really the word of mouth is, I guess, what viral is today. Yeah, yeah, right.

Local.

Local word of mouth was sort of like, I guess, virality. And so those are the things that haven't changed. When you think of people, we still have like one mouth, one nose, two ears, two eyes. So we haven't changed. But technology sort of changed the way we sort of make decisions on content, music, anything. Right. But the challenge back then was if they weren't going to play it on the radio, it wouldn't sell at the record store. So how the hell are you going to break them? One of the things we came up with was let's take over the hottest clubs in the city where no one can get into and do early nights for moms and all their kids. They serve popcorn and chips at six o'. Clock, Right. I remember being at Metro in Island Lands down in Boston, near Fenway Park. And we would develop these nights to build sort of this bass and word of mouth of like this band, the culture of the. Yeah, we helped push local culture because we knew this. The kids were unbelievable and the music was unbelievable. Right? It was this blue eyed soul, R and B kind of stuff that no one really heard. But there were these five gorgeous boys that had different sort of vibes that were able to together collectively mean something and make the market matter. And if you could break them, I call it local. If you could break them locally, you'd break them globally. So Boston became the test market for new kids and I was a part of that marketing conversation. I got to sort of.

I had.

No bad manners or I had no bad. What's the word I'm looking for? I had no other way. No one taught me. So I was this innocent kid trying to figure out how the hell do I pivot and break them.

So did you go in at saying, alright, how can I manage artists? What was your approach to the music business as someone that was a musician themselves? You were playing drums right out the gate, piano, everything. When did you decide you wanted to be in the music business and then be a president of a major record label and work with these artists? What was the initial approach into the space?

I think I got into a band to experience what it would be to be a musician.

That was your wanted to be the musician.

Well, I think I wanted to know what it felt like knowing that I wasn't a star, but knowing I was probably the star behind the star. That makes sense. So I could relate to an artist in a different kind of way because I was that drummer and I was that singer. I wasn't the best, but I was in it.

Right?

I could say that I performed at a local club. I could say I went on the road a little bit at a very early age at 15. And so I got incredible experience early on and the journey of that, of watching the artists that I got to help develop. Especially when no one cares. In the beginning of every artist's journey, no one cares. It may be me, it may be you, the mom and the dad and that's it. No one cares at the beginning. And I felt like honestly for most of my career I was like, I call myself that lonely guy in the room where I get the feels, I get the goosebumps. I have the passion and my job is to sell famous for a living. And I've learned in my last 30 years that I self famous for a living. And it took me a long time to be able to say that, but. But at the end of the day that's what I do. And the Way you sell famous is identifying great, working with great, knowing the difference between good and great. Right. Good is the enemy of great.

Interesting. What do you mean by that?

Well, I think would you rather have a good meal or a great meal?

Great meal.

Would you rather hear a good song or a great song?

Great song.

You see, great play is wide. Great matters great creates legacy. Does that make sense?

So real quick, before we get into it, a lot of people listening, they're hearing this music space. I want you to give you a brief, I would say update. Who are some of the artists and superstars you've been able to work with along your journey in this music space? Because I think it's something where getting people to quantify the people that you've been able to work with personally. And like you said, you make people famous for a living. I'd love for you to just give some of the names that you've been able to work with closely along your journey. Journey.

Well, some of the names you'll recognize and some of the names you won't because you're 18. 18 or so. I'll google that. But very early on I got to work with Billy Joel, Aerosmith, Bruce Springsteen, icons. I was very young, but got to work. Their current projects, Arrowsmith, I don't want to miss a thing. Billy Joel, river of Dreams, Bruce Springsteen as a solo artist and as with the E Street Band, just being a part of that. And then there was the Fugees. And I remember being in the back of a big plane in coach in the last row with Lauryn Hill and Proz and Wyclef around that the Fuji La era and they were playing colleges and we would show up and people really didn't get what they were doing. But we all knew what was about to happen was this movement. They were in charge of this hip hop movement. But sometimes and most of the times when there's a movement coming, no one sees it except maybe the artist, right? So when we're listening to those records, they were very unique sounding songs and no one really understood. But when you were in the presence of a Wyclef and Lauren, I knew in the back of the plane that I was a greatness. Does that make sense? I knew when you looked At Lauryn Hill, Ms. Hill today, greatness was upon us. When you went to that show, even if there was a few people in the crowd, you could shut your eyes and know where that journey was going to end. It was just the process of getting to that place of an arena or stadium but you knew they were going that way. I remember the day that Matthew Knowles walked in. Four girls called Destiny's Child in my office. And I. Beyonce was 14. And you felt her presence. Beyonce at 14 years old, you knew that she was the boss.

So just the people that you've worked with, you're talking about Beyonce when she's 14 years old. And for people listening, it's like people see Beyonce now, it's like it's Beyonce. You don't have to say anything else, right? But you've seen her when she was 14, just getting started on her journey. What was that like?

I just remember when they walked into my office to say hello. Her dad was managing at the time, Matthew Knowles. And there was four. Four in the group, not three. And Beyonce was sort of the middle. And it was all perfectly curated. And they walked in and they were in their outfits and you just. You knew Beyonce was the leader and you knew that you were again, in the midst of greatness.

What about that greatness? What do you see in that? Like we talked today, how do you define seeing greatness in someone?

I don't know. I don't know how other people do it, but I can tell. I have the 32nd rule. And the way someone looks at you in the eye, the way they compose themselves. And if they're artists that write the way they write and their tone and the way they. There's a certain presence of a star when you think about the biggest stars in the world today. You know, Justin Timberlake was, what, on the Disney Mickey mouse club at 8? Britney Christina, back in the day, Ariana was on a TV show. Ariana Grande was on Nickelodeon at a very early age. These kids, they just come out differently. If you were to talk to Beyonce and her mom, I'm sure they'll tell you that she was dancing and singing at a very, very early age. It's just, again, I want to go back to the born this way theory. The parents usually know before anybody else, because these kids just come out and have. And maybe they're a little bit awkward, maybe they're a little bit lost, but they're stars. So I. I could tell very early on the artists that I got to work with, that there was a unique quality. And that unique quality that stood for also longevity. Right? The ones that were going to be.

Around for a minute, that's a big thing. Nowadays, especially social media, a lot of artists will put out a song, crush it, whether it has 100 million views, and then, boom, you never hear of them. Again, so what would you say creates longevity in the music space? Because obviously in today's culture, there's so many artists, a lot of amazing ones, a lot of them that come up, and then maybe you don't hear about them for a while, then they come back. What have you seen creates longevity in terms of the personality traits with the people that are winning.

So I think it's really simple. I think it's about authenticity, especially the artists that write their own music. I also think sometimes artists don't know when to take a break. I believe scarcity needs to be a word again. How can I miss you if you never go away? Seems to be to me something that is more important than ever. So you create scarcity, but you also come back with something that's a little bit different. I also believe in an artist is a brand. A brand is a promise. What's your promise?

What do you mean by that brand is a promise?

Well, I think every brand is a promise. So, I mean, if you're gonna go to Chick Fil A and it doesn't taste like the way it's supposed to taste, then they broke their promise. And I think that applies to anything in life. I think an artist creates a brand, a sound, and it's okay if they go off brand, but you may not have the same results because you're sort of. Your audience is expecting something different. And it doesn't mean you can't go off brand, but it also means you have to evolve over a period of time and sort of move with your audience as you grow older. Right. So as you grow older, your audience grows with you. And then the key is, how do you also get new fans to come along with you? And I think there's an art to it, and I think there's only a few people that have figured that out over the course of time. I mean, Jay Z's a great example of, you know, I'm sure you love Jay Z, and I like Jay Z. So think about. Think about what he's always done. Yeah, man. Maintained consistency in his music. His messaging in between the records is always on Brand took chances with so many different people, including the Linkin park project, which is so different. Partnered with amazing artists from other genres and mixed and mashed it up. But still is Jay Z. I think that would be the perfect case study of an artist that completely understands culture. And he's also someone that is a studier of culture. Right. Not afraid to take chances, especially the way he competes at the highest level.

Got it. That Makes sense. And I want to bring something up because I hear this recurring theme. You're talking about legacy, longevity. And I want to bring up something that happened currently, and that was Nipsey.

Hussle there, and Charlie Walk signed me when Brandon Creed and a dude named Adam Granite was in that building, and then also Johnny Shipes. So it was a team of people. And Jim McDaniels also, that was, you know, they believed in me. They had power in that building.

Rest in peace to him. I know that you work really closely with him, and I believe the reason I want to bring this up is because I think a lot of people listening to this podcast, it definitely hit them if they listened to music and followed Nipsey Hussle. I know I did personally, and it's just I'm honored to be in your presence of someone that's been able to work with him and seeing the impact, especially with social media nowadays and how quick you can really see the impact of someone, in the case of worldwide and how much their music and their message means to people. And just with this current situation that happened, what would you say Nipsey Hussle meant to you, his legacy, his longevity? Because, like you said, you know great when you see it. And what did you see in Nipsey? Because I know in that clip that we'll make sure we link down below. You signed him in 2008, and. And you've been able to work with him closely. What would you say about the current situation and how he's impacted the whole culture?

I signed Nipsey because I loved his name, and I signed Nipsey because I loved his messaging. And the mixtapes that we got to sign at the time were important. I had no data. I had no information. I had no Shazam. I had no streaming. I had no. I had no YouTube. I had no MTV. I had an artist that stood for something that was the boss of himself, that was the CEO of his art, And I just wanted to get behind him, and I believed him. And he may have been years ahead of his time. And I think we're finding now today, his death actually has turned on so many new people that didn't know him, to his music and his words and his message. This positivity, I think if there's any good that's come out of this horrible, disgusting situation, that his legacy will not just live on for those that knew him, but for even my kids that didn't. And my kids found out that I signed Nipsey Hussle for My Instagram stories.

Wow.

And we had a cry one night talking about that. And we always stayed in touch. And I hadn't been a part of his career in the latter years. A lot of my friends, Steve Lobel and others rode with him. But he evolved over time as a king, and now the world gets to know him as the king. It's not that I'm a genius. I just had met him and I've always been that guy. I call myself the Gut before Data guy. Every label today has the same data, and they can overpay for anything and pay for market share. And now that I'm not on the label and I'm fiercely independent, I think my unique proposition to any artist and to people out there is just let's listen to the music. What's your vision? Do you feel when you hear. And I'm going back to that. I want to be in that business and I think I just want to go back to be. And maybe that's the step before Data, right?

Listen and feel.

Listen and feel. Maybe it's a step before Data. I mean, I mean, dammit, if we can't all, as very different people, look at a stage over there and feel the same way about that kid, then maybe that kid's not a star, right? How do you feel an arena if you can't do that? If we can't come from all walks of life and get together in a room and feel the same way? Well, that's what stars do, right? They have that universally relatable emotion that makes you all feel that same and sing that song and just be blown away and you take away your own thoughts and feels, but you're all there for the same cause. I think if Nipsey were alive today, you know, he'd be in that arena and singing those records that now everyone's seeming to find. And that's. I think the takeaway is. It's interesting, not enough people knew about him until his death. And I think there's a lesson to be learned there. Why did it take his death for people to discover him? And that's why in the game of music or anything that you're trying to do, if you believe in something enough, you need to fight like hell to make sure there's a connection. And it's not, you know, it's not just social media. It's sort of like, how do you affect and drive culture through the many different ways you can now? And I'm a very big proponent of sitting with the artist and trying to figure Out a way to break through. And by the way, if you put out a song and no one cares, no one cares, it's okay, get back up again. And just because you failed doesn't mean you're not great. It just means no one liked that particular record. So it's a complex conversation to have sometimes with the artist, but the journey, if they're great, they end up being kings or queens and. And in Nipsey's case, certainly his legacy is now secured forever.

That's amazing. Appreciate you sharing that for sure. And something I want to bring up is just this whole recurring thing, this whole recurring theme of you working with rock stars. You're a rock star yourself. And like you said at the beginning, it's working behind the scenes. Right. That's what you've been able to do, is work with some of the most talented people in the world. So when you got started in this industry, I'm 18 now, right. If you're looking back at some that's listening, that's 18. Whether that's they're pursuing music or business or social media or whatever they're doing. What do you tell yourself when you're 18, when it's like you're aspiring to work with the biggest people, to be the biggest person or to just help people on their journey and do it to the best of their performance? Looking back, seeing all these amazing records that you helped create and people, what do you tell that 18 year old who's just taking their first step along the journey?

Okay. So I get asked all the time. My DMs go crazy all day long. And I try to answer everybody. I mean, I had an amazing young lady, she wouldn't stop DMing me. And finally I connected with her and her dad and they're from Australia, he's a pizza maker. And she goes, I'm coming to New York to see you. And they flew across the world and waited in Times Square Hotel to meet me.

Wow.

And I now mentor her and she made me this amazing video that I'm going to put on, Music Mastery, which I'll talk about. I just tweaked her art to get the best out of her. She's a musician, she's a singer. And the thing that I'll tell you guys that's so important to all this is One of the DMs I got last week was, can you help me get a job as an A R label? I said, what'd you say? And they said, can you help me get a job? I want to be an A and R label, I go, do you have a phone? Can you search in Google? Are you resourceful? Can you hear music? You can be an A and R right now, as a matter of fact, you can be the most powerful A and R guy in the world. If you find the next star and it's all out there on the Internet, on all platforms, go find the star and now you'll have the biggest job in the world. If you want to be the label and do A and R like the guy, Internet, money. All these guys that are out there now, they didn't have label jobs. They went out and found Juice, wrld and, you know, I talked to a lot of the guys that are making these major deals or being fiercely independent and they went out and found the talent, right? So I think you have to be resourceful, you have to have some sort of vision and you have to go out and find it and not wait for the job. Anything can happen, great can happen anytime, but you gotta go be the musician behind it if in fact you want to be behind the artist or be in the music of the music business. In 2019, especially now that streaming has allowed for independent artists and independent managers and independent labels to live and become successful at the highest level, because there's no discrimination in the sense that you don't have to be major to be major.

That's amazing. I was going to bring that up. So in the current, I would say, situation of the market today regarding music, I think a lot of people like myself growing up, it's like I never had a cd, right? It's always been itunes, Spotify and having an ipod a couple years back. And it's like someone that's been able to see the whole transition. Where do you see the market up today in terms of streaming? What creates good artists today? What allows someone to create their presence, especially with social media online? Where does Charlie Walk see the market? How do you analyze what's going on if someone is trying to be a musician, what would you tell that?

Aspiring artist Janelle came to my house last summer. Justin Loveliner from Dark Room, he has Billie Eilish signed to him and he was playing me, I think Ocean Eyes, that is now a really popular song on this body of work that just dropped, that had a huge week and Billy is clearly the biggest artist in the world right now. Is that fair? I remember he was saying, do you think this is a hit? Could this get on the radio? And what we found out was it.

Was number one this week.

Yeah. When you played into the records. He was already on the journey with her, right. It was just a matter of time that her body of work. He wasn't chasing the hit, he was chasing the artist. And what happened? We have an artist, so it's not about what's her number one record. It's about Billy, the brand that's become this very important artist with an important body of work, right? So my kids listen to the whole album from the beginning to end, and that's what's happening today. With the right artists that are putting out 20 songs or 22 songs that represent a particular period in time. So there really are no rules. I think streaming has allowed for sounds now to become global. So look at the Latin revolution, okay? So the gatekeepers. The gatekeepers. I remember I was working with Enrique Iglesias and he had a song that we turned into, I think it was called By London, and no one would play it in the UK because those gatekeepers said british people don't like Latin music. And then streaming opened up and these records were just exploding, but they weren't getting radio play. So I think streaming made it super transparent globally. And I think you're going to see with India opening up, cross pollination of sounds from India affecting hip hop, Latin sounds affecting hip hop, and just the combustion of it all. You haven't seen nothing yet. When you talk about predicting the next sort of genres, I think it's gonna. You're gonna see things happening, stuff coming out of Africa starting to see the silence bubble. Just because streaming has allowed music to be truly global with no fences and no walls, right? And as I've said before, great can happen anytime. And you're going to see a flock of new stars that are fiercely independent and incredibly talented, controlling their own destiny, happening around the world. I think a lot of the sort of more manufactured stuff that we've seen, sort of controlled by the super producers and the labels that are spending a ton of money on making those perfectly crafted records, I think those days are over. I mean, Billy's records was made in her home with her brother in Hollywood. You know, bedroom pop is interesting, right? If you look at Bazier Love, I mean, it's an interesting time where if you're a great artist and you write your own music and you're collaborating with your generation, the opportunity is there more than ever before.

Got it. That makes sense. So who would you say is a mentor in your life? Because I think a lot like myself, allowing myself to sit down with you. I'm not only gaining so much knowledge. But I aspire to have a world class network of people, including yourself now and you coming up in this industry, who were some of your mentors that just helped you learn the game and helped you stay on track and helped you not just get involved with bad business deals. How have you been able to align yourself and just kind of be fluid through this whole journey?

I think I can speak to three people that were very influential in my life. One was Tommy Mottola, because Tommy taught me about the Latin revolution and he saw it coming. So when we were working with Ricky Martin, cup of Life and to live in the Villa Loca off the Grammys, it was an incredible time. Marc Anthony, Jennifer Lopez, I got to work with Shakira and I helped make Hipstone Lie with Wycliffe for her. You know, so that whole Latin journey of understanding that culture. I think Tommy, you know, Tommy was so influential to me, Jennifer Lopez, to sort of show me the importance of not just the Latin people, but culture and how it was infiltrating America. And I don't even think people today realize how important the Latin culture is. Latinos have taken over, period. And you see this K Pop here, K Pop has become so big here and you know, that's music that's in Korean and yet there hasn't been really like that boy band or girl group in the Latin marketplace that's broken yet. And I'm obsessed with that and I'm committed to figuring that out. I've been in Puerto Rico recently. I was there a couple weeks ago. I went into places where there were pit bulls and chickens in the streets and saw records being made. It was authentic and fascinating. And I know the next biggest stars as, you know, Bad Bunny. Look at John Z. Who's about to break Hawaii door. You see Puerto Rico right now producing some of the biggest stars in the world. Puerto Rico, Miami. And a lot of the Puerto Rican people actually in Orlando now making records because of the hurricane, right? So they left San Juan, they left Puerto Rico, they couldn't go to Miami. So they ended up in Orlando. Something's about to happen in Orlando. It's just about sort of predicting the future and thinking about it that way. So Tommy was a very, very big influence. When I was at Republic, Monte Lippman was a big influence because he read data better than anyone that I've ever met. So he was really the king of data.

Data as in what?

He could just read a record, but also read the data and predict where the weekend was. Someone that he saw very early on, or even he signed Ariana Grande. I helped break her. But he did sign her Republic. Yes.

So.

And he was looking at probably 18 million followers and people liked her. So what do you do with that? Put great music to an amazing voice and, you know, the model works. And then last but certainly not least, Jimmy Iovine. Spent a lot of time with Jimmy Iovine, who, as you know, is the great founder of Interscope Records and just involved with everybody from Dr. Dre to Eminem and so on and so on. But, you know, I got to know him sort of towards the transition into Beats by Dre and then the sale to Apple and then what he did at Apple Music. And that particular period was the most exciting period for me because he really taught me the sort of intrapreneur side to the entrepreneur side to how to move culture, how to cross pollinate production. An artist. And the one lesson he always used to say to me, never look in the rearview mirror. Keep moving. And that always sticks with me. Just never look back. Keep moving, keep moving.

That's insane. What really sparks my attention is like I sit here, right? I graduated high school last year, and growing up, I wasn't around entrepreneurs. I grew up in Virginia, small town. And I believe that, as you know, you are who you associate with, right? So growing up, did you have an entrepreneur tendency? Were you around people that were opening up opportunities in your life? Or what was it like growing up in your town? And what would you, looking back, what was your expectation of your future? Did you plan to go to college, get a job? What was your game plan? Meaning keep moving, don't look in the rearview mirror. Growing up, when you were going through high school and then college, what was your plan to keep moving?

Here's what I think my. And actually, I'm going to turn this to an advice. Everyone's born with a specific chip that's customized to whom they are, their DNA. If you can identify that early, grab it and hold onto it for your life and then go on that journey. Don't be confused on it. But the earlier you can figure out who you are and what you want to be. It's not that you get there quicker, but the more you can enjoy life and get into doing what you love as opposed to doing what your parents would like you to do, or following your father's footsteps and being the accountant because he's the accountant, because you may have not been born with that accountantship. And then you're the accountant. You're effing miserable for me. I Just identified early what I wanted to do. And let me tell you something. I was miserable for my high school years. I had a really hard time knowing that I shouldn't be there or didn't belong. And I had a lot of lonely nights. And, like, I'm a little guy, so all my friends were big guys doing the sports and Friday Night Lights. I was a little guy. I wasn't really good at anything except sort of like, what I wanted to know and learn, and that was music. Can you imagine, like, not having YouTube, like, to mess around or I can't mess. Itunes, charts, no iPhone. I mean, I have a fucking radio in my hand next to my head, and they're playing the same 12 songs. Fuck's going on here? It's my life. Of course, I learned how to hear hits because they played them over and over and over. So, yeah, I'm a big believer that everyone is special and everyone can have their own success if they have a hard look at themselves and they're honest with what they love and then identifying that and then grabbing onto that and going for that ride. So, no, I didn't have any entrepreneurs helping me. No, I didn't have any local influences. No, I lived in a town just like everybody else. Okay. So I wasn't normal. The same way you're not normal. Okay? Now it changes when you move to a big city like New York or la. My kids, my four babies get to grow up in New York City, where it's, you know, the cultural influence on them allows them to identify, I think, a little bit earlier than later. You know, you're on a subway at 8 years old, it's just a different conversation. You're with different types of people. Everyone that's in New York's here for a reason, right? We got a racket, we got something we're doing, we're connecting, we're hustling. It's expensive to live here, so you better figure it the fuck out. It's just different than, you know, growing up in a small town. Yeah, But I would say by growing up in a small town, it made me hungrier to figure out how to get to the big town. So there's something special and unique about that that I wouldn't give up. And you gotta hope that the kids that you have, like, my children, would be just as hungry as I was. You know, I have a kid now who's 17 who has his own streetwear lineup. You know, so he has that hustle and that feel. And all the artists are posting it not because of his dad, but they like his shit.

What is it called?

It's called Runaway New York.

Runaway New York.

Shout out to that. It's Jagger Walk CEO of Runaway New York. Let's on the Shopify platform. So he got to learn Shopify, right? And percentages and P Ls. And he's not learning it in business school. He's learning it from the Shopify.

He's doing it and he's doing it.

So. So whether it becomes the biggest brand or not, the world is irrelevant. He's in college right now. He created his own college program called how to do Streetwear.

No way.

And that's, you know, I'm just saying anyone that can identify what they want to do early enough, have a meeting with yourself and start practicing. Go target practicing on this stuff to get to that. It's not getting there quicker. As I said before, it's getting to do what you want to love. So you can be great maybe at an earlier age, right. And then be able to take that experience and grow it with other people.

That's so sick. So what would you say? Having kids, how did that change your life? How did that pivot your direction? Because you brought up your kids just now and one's 17. I'm 18. So it's like, I'm like your son's age, right? So now seeing that space of like, Shopify and he's doing his thing, how did having kids, like, change your perception of cultural relevance? Because obviously, it's like when I show my parents new thing on Instagram, they're like, oh, what's an Instagram story? Right? So it's like, how does having kids, like, keep you in culture? And what would you say to maybe a parent watching that? You want to give them advice to someone that is their kid and they don't know what they're doing, but they're just doing it. What advice would you give to parents?

Well, number one, the relationship with your children is so, so important. And it needs to be transparent. It needs to be honest. You need to pay attention. And your kids, for me, I turn them onto things, but they turn me on to things. You know, they turn me. I mean, being culturally relevant is very important to what I do, especially from a technology point of view, from an artist point of view. We learn from each other. And I think that's actually what technology does, right? You learn from each other. And our kids get to, with me, spend time talking about culture, enjoying the various platforms, the experience of them, and then sort of Driving each other to do what we love. Again, for me, family is the most important thing in the world. I've taken my kids everywhere. They've been around the world. If I have to miss a weekend and I can grab a kid or two and bring my wife, we're doing it. So what happens over time? The more you include your family into what you do, the closer your family becomes and you truly become a unit. The advice is be inclusive, be curious, pay attention, support, love, love, love, love, love. And it's all about the core. And it's all about truly paying attention and understanding each other. My kids and I, they're my best friends. And you see some families where it's not that way. We don't run a dictatorship here. I think it's mutual respect. And I also think that, again, by taking them to so many different experiences, and I'm not talking about the backstage shiny stuff, talking about having them be in your life and really just riding with them, you know, and having a great relationship with your wife, who I've been with for 25 years. Met her, you know, when she was 21. You know, she's my ride or die through thick and thin.

That's amazing.

She's too thick and thin. Through all the crazy, through all the ups and downs and whatever bullets get thrown at you. We're strong and we're a strong family unit. And that's what I think keeps me going, keeps me excited, and it keeps me sort of young hearted in a sense where I can listen to some of the. I can listen to any song that comes out and be just as excited as you would asap, right. Maybe even go harder than. You wouldn't hear that record and still be excited to go to a club and go out. Not to party, but just to be a part of culture. When I go to Miami, I see my boy David Grutman at LIV and you know, he's got everyone playing every night. And we're in that DJ booth and we're having a great night and we'll get home super late. We're up the next morning early. Unlike probably you guys, but, you know, we want to be there. And you know what? Last New Year's Eve, my kids were with us in the club. And, you know, that's part of the fun. Not just being in the entertainment business, but I think being in the culture business.

Yeah, Makes sense. It makes sense nowadays, bringing it back to the current moment of like, you've won so many different awards, worked with all these different people. Like, nowadays where is your focus? Someone that's watching, they're watching this podcast. It's 2019. Like, what is Charlie Walk doing right now? Where is his focus? What do you want people to know about the projects you're working on?

Okay, so right now I'm fiercely independent. I've got a great group of, I don't want to say young, but really smart young entrepreneurs. And, you know, I'm interested in partnering with artists. And right now we've got about four. We're super excited about building. I'll tell you a funny story. Someone brought me a 12 year old eight months ago.

Okay.

I've never signed a 12 year old. I'm not interested in working with, you know, children at this point in my life. And they said to me, you know, he's very much like Beaver Button, a very different level. Meaning Bieber broke at a young age. There hasn't really been someone since Bieber. Right. Is that fair?

Yeah.

So his name was Stefan Benzenheugh from South Africa. And I posted a video they sent me just to test on my stories. I got 450 DMs from mothers and daughters and I. Okay, fly them in.

Yeah, yeah.

So we, I mean, bring them out. And I didn't even tag who it was. I just wanted to see if anyone cared. And by the way, if no one cared, no one cared. And I flew him in and I met him. He was my height and I shook his hand and he was 12 years old. He said, hi, my name's Stefan. And I looked in his eyes the same way I felt when I met the Beyonce's and John Mayers and the Ariana's and even the Camila Cabellos, who's a good friend. And they have that same star chip. They have that same thing that, you know within 30 seconds that you're uncomfortable because they're that powerful.

Yeah.

Now if they're doing that to me, they can do that to an arena, they can do that to millions. And we decided to work together and because, I mean, I remember Charlie Puth writing on my Instagram and Jennifer Lopez and who is this kid about that video? Just. Yeah, you know, and then I said, what's your last name? And he said, stefan Benzenholt. And I'm like, well, no, it's gonna have to be Stefan Benz. And so some of the things that I do is, you know, Stefan Benz feels like a Mercedes. It feels thick, it feels premium. And we, you know, we made his name Stefan Benz, an amazing family. You know, I always look to the family too. Like, we got the kid, we've gotta have great parents. And he had the most supportive, amazing parents that knew. He came out very special. And so my prediction was, well, I think he can be big and we can grow him on YouTube, but can he write? And then we put him in the studio and he wrote multiple hit records, in my opinion, 50% publishing, which means half the record, with the producers changing pre choruses and choruses directing the producers. And I, you know, I was right and it's bigger than I ever imagined. Because what you have to do when you're dealing with the 12 and a half year old, right, is predict where he's going to be at 15 or 16, because that's going to be the sweet spot. And he'll be 6:1. And he will be a force of nature and he can act. And he is a global artist now. And so we did a meet and greet for fans and played new songs in South Africa and we were able to give them the music early to see what songs they liked. But when he walked into that room, it was chaos. And that's on my Instagram right now if you want to look and see, you know, so it's sort of like the natural evolution of what I saw when I met him now coming to fruition. He's not the biggest. I know he's gonna be the biggest star in the world, but it's the journey that we're on. And you can see the layers of the journey of this kid. But when I first signed him, like, I'm screaming, I'm having a meeting with myself. Like, there's no one listening to me. Oh, yeah, Charlie Walk, you know, he's got the new Bieber. Sure. So you don't even listen to the noise. You can't even listen to anyone or care what anyone thinks because at that moment, he had four fans. Me, his mother, his father, his sister, and Manny. Who found him, who brought him to me. So that's it, it's five, you know, that's the beginning of every sort of star journey, you know, when no one really cares, sees it, and really no one cares until they care. So you have to have some sort of vision. And as far as, like someone said, what does that do with the major labels? Well, at some point, if we do our job and create enough value, we're going to make a decision. We license him to a major for a very big check, or we just remain fiercely independent because he does write his own records and we'll have our Own business, Stefan Ben's Inc. And he's the CEO. We're behind him and we grow it into a global brand and get the stadiums and arenas around the world, right? And create our own content and do our own thing. So that's the beauty of, you know, the partnerships that we can make. We can do direct deals with Spotify or Apple or however it rolls over time, as long as we show value. So our job today with Stephan is to continuously build his brand and show value.

Okay, and when you say building brand, is that, are you focused social media wise? He's 12 years old. Like when you say build his brand, where do you guys put focus? Because I think that's something where it's like you're developing this character, this brand and people are listening. It's like, what do you do as someone that's built some of the biggest brands due to this 12 year old in terms of building that brand step by step?

So here's the launch codes. They're unique for each artist. There's no launch code plan that we give to the same type of artist over and over again. He lives in South Africa. We're gonna show and create some excitement while he's in school there. We're doing that. You're seeing that playing out, people like him. Then we're gonna start dropping music. So every week we'll start dropping songs just to tell the story that he's probably one of the youngest kids in the world, co writing records and putting them out, getting that music going. We're not necessarily interested in having massive playlisting songs or radio, but we're starting his journey. And it's also practice for him too, right. Getting his art right. I believe though that his visuals will be super important because as long as there's. As long as his little girls is gonna be pop stars, right? And we need to feed that. We need to be able to feed the beast. I say more is more with him and just getting that content out. And also we have to capture because the older he gets, his voice starts changing, he gets taller and his opinion changes.

Right.

He's a human being. So I have to sort of predict what he's gonna kind of maybe be thinking about at 14 and 15 and 16 and what that looks like and how that all changes. So yeah, it's. It's different for every artist. And you have to listen to the artist. Yeah, I don't tell the artist what to do. I listen to what they want to do. And then from there we give our constructive opinion but at the end of the day, they have to make a decision and be comfortable with it or it doesn't end up working out. And the other thing is, you know, I've always said this. I can't want it more than the artist. So if I'm out there wanting it more than you, we're dead. So it's very, very important. The artist has to really want it and, and has to act like the superstar they were meant to be.

That makes sense. So nowadays what do you want? What's your main want focus in life? Personally, outside of working with artists, I.

Am super focused on family, getting my boys in order for what they want to do career wise. I think guidance is so key. They're entrepreneurs, they're creative. I think they got a lot of that out of me. That's a priority for me. The other thing that I'm obsessed with is new markets and new artists because the labels aren't really developing new artists. They're sort of buying market share. And I was one of those guys. I admit it. I think the opportunity is to develop talent. I'm interested right now and I'm talking to people in Puerto Rico about legitimizing and creating the Creators Fund where we can develop talent and be partners with talent and not have underworld money funding some of these artists. And I think it's super important to. For me, I think my blessing if I look back at my career is I've made people famous when maybe no one else thought they would be and also developing talent. So what I'm interested today is creating an ecosystem of developing new talent and looking for new sounds and new stars. And one of the ways I'm going to do that is with music mastery.

Yep, let's talk about that. Because I know obviously when we first connected we were in the DMs like you said. And you're telling me about this whole concept like music mastery. And I want you to tell the people because it's super intriguing to me because someone like yourself, that's it says it right in the name. Like you've mastered the music industry. Right. So for people that are watching and listening, like what is this concept you call music mastery?

I'll say this, one of the biggest influences of my life is a guy named Tony Robbins. And I know he touches a lot of people from his big, big, big arena conversations and his five day seminars. But you know, he has business mastery and it's his 30 years of experience in business and he has a certain program for it and you know I paid attention to that. And I kept on saying to myself, well, if people are asking me how to break in or be a better artist or what are specific launch codes to your 30 years of experience? And it happens all day long, every single day. And I'm sitting there, just waking up, working out. I can't help myself. I just want to respond. And it's not even like the give back. It's just my nature to help and connect.

Yeah.

I said, well, why don't we create a product, Create a mentoree experience where I could make an evergreen product that morphs and moves over time. Right. So if I. If I add Fireside Chats to it, great. But basically six weeks of, of touching every point of the business. More from an inspirational conversation point of view than a technical point of view. If you want to have technique on publishing, I'm gonna bring in a expert in publishing. I'm bringing in a great lawyer to talk about contracts. That's not really what I do. I always had the best people to carry out those particular verticals. My conversation, which you'll see, and I'm shooting it in a beautiful church in Dumbo, is a lot of the things that I've been asked. So I took every question and put it into a bowl, mix it up, put it in the oven, and I'm going up there and having that conversation with everyone that would want to sort of be in my office. So it's sort of like sitting with me one on one over six weeks, and we're having that conversation. Now. What's gonna be unique about this is I'm gonna do a weekly zoom for everyone that signs up, so we can have limited group chats, conversations, sort of like a weekly town hall, which I think is going to be super important. We do the Facebook private chat group, which is great. And then I'm going to take Instagram close friends and put up daily inspiration and news and stuff that comes my way on, artist stuff and anything that I'm thinking about in my brain that I'm applying to my gig and my job so everyone can be a part of how I'm thinking. And I think that's sort of the DNA of music mastery, which will eventually lead into me going into markets around the world and setting up a stage, setting up conversation. And I'd like to travel the world and do that, and with that, find artists. So I'm going to create some playlists. Yeah, I think I'm going to create some. I'm going to create through that platform, artists of the week, songs of the week, create some playlisting. If you're signed up and your song in the community somehow rises, I'm going to scream and shout about it.

So.

So there's also that opportunity of using it as an AR source. It's not the main function of it, but why not? Why not try to make someone famous, given the opportunity? Because they were a part of Music Mastery, I think would be a great way and a unique way of making us and separating us from whatever else is out there, product wise from educational. So this isn't just educational, this is cultural, this is community.

This is getting in your ecosystem.

I think so. And I think I control it. I'm the boss. It's my turn to be able to be pure and honest and not have to sort of succumb to a corporation and be able to say what I want to say and give everyone the honest truth of what, how it works and how to be the best that you can be. I'm not promising anyone they're gonna be famous, but God damn it, if they're great, we're gonna see it somehow within the Music Mastery community.

Yeah. And is this more for someone that's like, they want to manage artists? Is it the artists themselves? Is it for people that are just in there, like, love the music as an industry and want to understand it for, like, where's the, I would say, platform and who would you say it's for?

The biggest challenge I had was like, you know, you know, how do you identify who it's for? I think the main goal is for artists and even writers, but I think it applies to managers. And I always say the artist behind the artist is the managers. Right. The creatives. Yeah. And then I think also because I'm doing these Fireside chats that I'm adding with that called Masterminds. So I had read Juan, who's one of the biggest producers who I found years ago, who did all the Gaga stuff in the heyday of Gaga, you know, I think you saw some of the footage. You know, he's playing on his guitar how he wrote Just Dance. And it's that type of education that's not in your face and not textbook, that sort of makes you really see what the hell goes on and the process. So if you're not getting exactly what you want out of this, then that's what the. Let's call it. Monday night Fireside zoom chats will be asked a question. You'll have the opportunity to communicate to me and ask me those questions. And I'm trying to make it where there's only so much I can do one on one. But the idea is to touch as many people as you can along the way to help them get where they want to go. Because I didn't have that opportunity. I actually had to learn the hard way. Right. And it's not even the quote unquote shortcut. But I think certainly there's no school you can go to for my 30 years. Then I think it's worth every penny. The other thing I will add is I'm going to really figure out the Charlie Walk foundation opportunity to fund from some of the monies made artists that don't have the opportunity to make a video or record. I also have a scholarship. Then I'm going to start with this and pick X amount of kids a year that get in it for free. And I haven't figured out how that algorithm works and how the hell do you pick those kids. But I have to have a give back component to it where there's a scholarship and there's a fund that relates to the Music Mastery program. And then eventually there's going to be other verticals. I want to have other people talk about their genres and expertise and I'm going to hand the baton to them and they become affiliates and they have their own journey. But Music mastery starts with me, but doesn't end with me.

Got it. It's a platform bigger than you.

It has to be. I'm just gonna kick it off as best I can.

So moving in 2019, I would like to say I have a couple more questions and it's so looking forward to the next six months. Music Mastery is the focus.

I think Music Mastery a focus. But I also want to be able to sit here with you next year and say that, you know, we created the most important boy band since Menudo out of Puerto Rico. And some of those funds helped Puerto Rico. Yeah, Like, I'm really like. I already named the group, by the way. I already named the group. I'm not gonna say what it is. I came up with the name of the group. We're doing auditions in May in Puerto Rico. Okay, we're gonna go. I'm gonna get in the van. I'm gonna go to bodegas and churches. We're going to go find these kids and find the best four boys in Puerto Rico. I'm going down. We're shooting it. And a portion of proceeds go to Puerto Rico. And Even if it's 5%, it motivates everyone to Know that there's a give back component and I'll change not only just four kids lives, but why? I want to know why K pop is so big here with BTS and blackpink, yet the last boy band to break was really Menudo. I don't understand it. So clearly there's either no effort or no one's thinking about the fact that the biggest new stars are coming out of the Latin marketplace and especially Puerto Rico. So I'm passionate about it because I grew up on it. I told you my Sony Music days, I told you about Shakira and Hipstone Lie. So it's my blood, it's my passion. And also what happened to Puerto Rico. I was down there if you haven't been. It's fucked up. It's fucked up. And if I can help through my knowledge and my passion to fix that place, which is part of the United States, by the way, it's part of the United States, then I'm going to do it.

That's amazing. So a common thing that I see is like you're very involved with being caring and giving to others. You're saying, how can I help someone? How can I pass the baton? How can I make it bigger than me? How can I find the next artist? How can I fund them and give them opportunities? It's allowing me to see my vision of alright that makes you a winner in my eyes. It's like you're always figuring out how to help someone. And has that characteristic always been an important thing to you? Because just throughout this entire interview, this is the first one ever, by the way, first podcast. I've learned so much already from you because I obviously we met today and I've seen your content and I've seen what you've been able to build, but I picked up this recurring theme. It's like you're figuring out how to help others. You're reaching your hand out, you're passing the baton. Where do you think that mindset comes from?

I think I've always done it, but I've never shouted about it. I've never really done a ton of interviews. I mean, if you look around, there's not a lot of me. I've always been behind the artist. And you know, even from an executive point of view, I look back at some of the executives, I'm like, I was looking back recently at Jacqueline Saturn, who's a woman, an amazing woman who worked for me at Epic and I promoted her to be head of promotion. Now she's running Caroline Records. Which is killing it in the independence base of capital. And, you know, you look back and just see a lot of people that you sort of hand picked to go on that journey because you believed in them when maybe they weren't qualified at the time, but they had that right. And I think now today, in 2019, I'm very much about continuing that. And I think I'm going to be more vocal about what I've learned and how to teach people lessons in life to always be kind and believe, even if people don't believe, and never be a part of a committee. I always say committee or committee. It's, you know, don't be. It's just like, what are we doing? I'm going to tell you a quick story. When I made the Hipstone Lie record with Wyclef, we were up all night. And I came in the next day in my office at Epic Records, I was the president at the time, and I played the demo of Hipstone live for my whole staff in the big conference room. And I played it. I'm on tonight. I'm a Hipstone lion. I'm starting to feel you're boring the whole thing. And I'm just feeling it at. The song.

Ended. Yep.

No one clapped. I'm the president of the company and you're thinking like, you know, no one clapped.

Wow.

No one clapped. And I got up and I said, okay. And I showered in my office, flew to la and I remember playing it for Julie Pilot, who now runs Beats.

Okay.

And she popped the record and went number one in a week on itunes. And that's why, you know, when you feel and you're born with a certain thing, identify it and never challenge that chip you were given. You're an entrepreneur.

Yes.

Do you have a feel for certain things you invest in?

For certain.

Okay. How you doing with it? Pretty good.

I would say so.

Okay. So my point, right. So I probably couldn't pick any of the things that you're picking and you're talking about through your socials and your brand. But for me, Harry Epstone lion knew it would change culture and knew that she, Shakira, could only play New York, LA and Miami at the time. And when that song hit, she could play Minneapolis and Chicago. So it was a culture record. And culture wasn't even a word at the time. Like, culture's like Nike, Nike culture off white Virgil. You know, back then, like, saying the word culture was like, what? So, you know, just. That's the one common thing that hasn't changed with technology. It's having the balls to stand up and go with your gut at all times and understanding who you are, believing who you are, and carrying out who you are.

Yeah. That is crazy. So you've been a part of, what was it, over 50 top 100 Billboard singles?

Yeah. Number one Billboard hot 100 singles and made the power list for the past many years, which has been great.

But aside, what's the power list for you? That don't know.

I think they extrapolate your accolades and they make a Power 100 list and they put you on it. And especially if you're a major label, you're definitely on it, but I don't really care about that stuff. I think being a part of Billboard number one Hot 100 records is super excited. Because the truth of the matter is the biggest artists in the world care about having a Billboard Hot 100 number one record because it's YouTube, it's streamed, it's everything sort of mixed up in a bowl, you know?

When was the first time you. You hit number one? And what was that feeling of, like, when you think of that as, like, the top of that industry when you hit it the first time?

I don't know when we have those Mariah Carey number ones. And don't forget, I got to work with Mariah at the beginning when we played Little Cubs. And her first single was Vision of Love. And it was a dark room and that mic and that black dress and that face and that voice, and it was just, you know, being a part of that, just watching the natural evolution of a global superstar happen in front of your eyes was something that I've never seen before. And I'll never forget the moment of hearing that song for the first time and then months later being number one on the Hot 100. So those are the things that you live with to channel when you hear a hipstone lie. Right. Or a Weeknd song or an Ariana record that I got to work with so closely and hearing it getting goosebumps without the audience telling you, and then watching that thing grow over time and being right. Because most of my job was convincing people to like you, the artist and like the song.

Yeah.

And the biggest songs most people didn't hear are like, that's really the truth the first time. Because they're unique. Because they're different.

Yeah. Yeah. So you have to change the game.

Correct.

So two more questions. Last one. Looking back on your journey, I'd say just being able to analyze and see what's working and how people have shifted Culture and seeing now going from the first one to the second top 100 hit, what would you say has made the difference in your life to keep going? How have you not been able to settle? Because I think there's one of those quotes, it's like the real winners never quit, they never retire, they keep going. And what would you say has been that thing for you? How have you been able to just stay consistent with what you're doing and how not get comfortable like, oh, we have a top 100, we're top of the world, we're worldwide tours, Grammys, everything. How have you been able to stay humble and consistent throughout the biggest wins throughout your life?

I think it's my God given responsibility with whatever gift I have to continue to identify, work with and help town I believe in. I think it's responsibility and I also think it's part of my insecurity where I'm always insecure at all times as it relates to working with the artists and making sure we're doing the right things. Does that make sense? That insecurity drives me. I'm never comfortable. I'm always insecure. And that's just, you know, me letting you all know that, yeah, you wake up every day insecure, trying to figure out the journey. So when I talk to you about that young, that young man we love.

Stephan Benz or Stefan Benzo, what an.

Incredible woman that I'm managing. Solex S O U S O U L E X O U L E X was one of the great voices. I'm gonna be insecure until she breaks. Does that make sense? I feel I have to. I have such responsibility and I never want to not have that responsibility. And some could say to me, oh, Troy, you've got a wife and four kids. That's a lot. That's a responsibility. Now the artists are too. And I don't like not working with artists and I like knowing that I have the ability to maybe be more often right than wrong. And then with that, whatever power that is, that's responsibility brings insecurity. And it's just a complete mental, mental situation that you learn to manage over time. But it's why I'm here. I'll never stop till I'm dead.

That's insane. So to wrap it up, I want to first say thank you, of course. Because seeing someone like yourself and me being 18 years old, more so a personal question is like when you see someone like myself and you said, yeah, I wanted to make sure this podcast, if you are listening to, to this today, why would you take the opportunity to sit down with someone like myself that's getting started? What do you see in not only myself, but younger people from when we first met each other, like yo, Gen Z. I know a lot of my business partners, they've said the same thing about that. So as someone that's been able to find talent and sitting here with me today, why would you, number one a pick this podcast to be your first one? And where do you plan to take your brand moving forward as a social media? With Music Mastery, everything you're doing today. But why this show?

First of all, I think it's not about you. I think it's about you and all the kids you represent. Right? So I don't say me, I say we. And I also think that you're very important for entrepreneurs. I think you're very important to culture and the fact that you're actually here and we got to connect. There's no publicist, there's no emails going back and forth. We come to New York, we got together at 10 o' clock at night and we're spending time with your crew when there's no agenda, when it's transparent and honest, which is what I know you are from watching and listening to you. You were my first choice to start my journey with, you know, what I'm actually doing now. Music Mastery isn't for me, it's for actually you. It's however you guys want to plug into it. And I'm open for business in the sense that why not make it something that has internships and offices and stages. It has to start off somewhere. I think I'm the right person to kick it off, but it's not for me and my children. It's for you and your friends and for anyone that wants to put stuff into it to make it matter. And, you know, I'm even willing to match dollar for dollar. We have to, to make it grow into something global. And you know, you know, we're all building our own brands for ourselves, but why not build some brands for other people? And I think that's what Music Mastery is going to do for all of us.

I love it. That being said, I just want to say thank you so much, my brother.

Love being truly come back. More chocolate chip cookies for all this content, 100%.

So that being said, everyone makes you go follow Charlie. Everything that he's done, links to Instagram, everything. Music Mastery, when it comes out, will be down below. So make sure you check that out. This is the first podcast he ever did.

First ever.

So when you see him on, like, the hundred top podcasts and interview shows in the world.

First guy, guys first in wins.

And you guys are the first to listen. So thank you so much, Charlie. Thank you for the listeners. Charlie means RO keep.

Monarch Legacy of Monsters An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it. On November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me. The most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

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Go, go, Go. Monarch l Legacy of Monsters. Streaming November 17th only on Apple TV. Plus.