Dan Martell - How to Buy Back Your Time as a CEO

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Dan Martell, the author of Buy back your Time and founder of SaaS Academy. Dan, thank you so much for coming.

On the show today. It's an honor, man. I'm really excited to be here. Obviously it's always fun to connect with somebody I've been following online for a while. So I appreciate the opportunity.

I appreciate it, man. You know, I mean, vice versa, I know we've been trying to make this happen. So very grateful to have you on today. And even more so, like one thing that's very top of mind for me that I wanted to bring up right when we jump in is, you know, your book Buy Back youk Time. I'm not just saying this to say this, but I read it this year, top of the year, and I gotta say, like, it was one of the most transformative, like tactical pieces of content and a material that I've read in a while because I feel that as a founder that has the show, that has companies that's trying to manage all these things, I find myself wasting a lot of time if I'm like really reflecting throughout the years. So I wanted to first say thank you for doing what you do and for putting out great content. But for those that aren't too familiar with like where you spend time today, your book, I'd love for you to just give a quick high level overview before we dive in.

Yeah, I mean my, my quick story is. Gotten a lot of trouble as a kid. Ended up almost taking my life in a high speed chase. That's the story I opened the book with. Ended up in a rehab center where, you know, literally this place rebuilt me. I mean, there's no other way to explain it. And, and it was towards the end of this program that I discovered programming and software. And this is 1997, 98. So got out of rehab, sober, with a lot of energy and a new addiction called software programming. And, and I discovered this little thing called the Internet. So turned out to be kind of a massive opportunity and just, you know, in many ways I believe, you know, I believe in a creator and I believe I was guided and I got put on to, you know, building companies, but that took a long time to figure out. And finally in my mid-20s, got a mentor and a coach and changed everything for me. So a lot of people know me today as the software guy. So I've built and exited three software companies. I've invested in, I think over a hundred companies at this point. We buy a company A month right now. Software company. Yeah, the big Band software. My business partner Kevin and. And then I decided to write that book because a lot of the CEOs and founders and a lot of my friends were struggling with like, the people I know, they're like driven. Right. Like yourself.

Yeah.

And at the same time, you know, like, the constraint is time. So what I wanted to do is show people is. Is. And that's why I deliberately wrote and build your empire. Right. Get unstuck, reclaim your freedom, build your empire. Me. An empire is a life of unlimited creation that you never have to retire from. So that's who I wrote the book for.

I love that.

And it's been my journey and this process that I talk about, you know, which at a high level, I want to teach people how to build companies they don't grow to hate. I think a lot of people end up failing in business not because the market or their team or the banks. It's just they fall out of love with what they've built because it got hard. So that's why I wrote it. And you know, anybody that I think struggles with trying to spend time to save money when they really should be spending money to save time, yeah, that's the person I wrote the book for.

I love that man. And even to. In the book you talk about this concept that I loved, like your. What is your buyback principle of, you know, how much is your time worth? And the buyback rate. Yes, buyback rate. And that was something too, just very tactically and I think a lot of entrepreneurs that either watch or listen to the show, I'd love for you to dive into what is a buyback rate? Because again, as. As simple as it sounds, I even find, even after reading the book, I found myself like, ah, that is something I shouldn't be doing or why am I spending time on this? And I think there's so many moments of realization of, you know, your innate feeling of I'm wasting my time and it needs to be spent here. When did you start prioritizing your time like that? And when did you really come up with, in a sense, buyback rate in your own life prior to writing the book?

So I can remember the moment I'm in Toronto, I'm Canadian and I was hanging out my buddy Martin, this, he was a jewelry guy and just, just him and I. I don't know if you grew up with like your, your one turned on friend, like, in regards to like, they were also into business. So me and Martin would hang out. Yeah. So he was that guy for me. And we would just talk about like, ideas around marketing and logistics. He was literally polar opposite. I was building software, he was. He was creating bracelets and rings and doing deals with Walmart and buying gold and all that stuff. But I remember we were sitting in the park and I was trying to conceptualize business because if you think about it, it's complex. There's like knobs and dows. I was thinking like a music mixing board, right? Like, how many different knobs are there? And like, is there a hundred? Is there 500? Is there 10? Like, what could we argue they are? But what I realize is that to the degree that you understand how to mix things and different aspects of marketing, sales, logistics, hr people, vision, right? There's just a lot to the business. The limiter to being able to get good at those things is time. So if everybody has the same amount of time, I have the same amount of time as you have as time that Elon Musk has, that Jeff Bezos has, that Gary Vee has. What is different about the way they think about their time? And what I realize is that in regards to understanding different knobs, they don't major, minor things. This is a Jim Rohn concept. So back in the day, it's like motivational guy.

Yeah, I know Jim Rohn.

Yeah. Jim Rohn's like the man. He's like, I. We listen to him in the car with my kids. I if in many ways I want my kids to think Jim Rohn was their grandfather. Wow. Yeah, that's. That's how important his thoughts and voices.

Grandpa Jim.

Yeah, Jim. And like, you know, as Grandpa Jim used to say on those. The audio.

Yeah.

But I think a lot of people major minor things on the knobs, right? They like major in like knowing nuanced things about this, this and this and what the best people. And Henry Ford talked about this. What he did is he just made sure he had access to experts that could answer the hardest. The questions, the biggest questions, the hardest problems had answers to. So then I try to think about the equation because I'm a software guy. It's like, how would we calculate the value of our time? And it's essentially whatever value you create in the world divided by the amount of hours you work that year. Like it is. So, so somebody makes a hundred thousand a year, has a value creation.

That's.

That's how much value they create in a year. And that's, that's their, their hourly rate. Or somebody that makes 10 million. It's just different.

Yep.

And to the degree that you free up your time to invest in the skills to be able to come more valuable, that's the game we're playing. That's the entrepreneurial game. So the buyback rate is a formula that people can, you know, run through to figure out what their hour is worth to buy back. Right. It's not what is your hour? Because essentially you figure out what the number is. Right. But let's say it's $100 an hour. You don't spend $100 to buy back an hour because then you'd be a. It's a net wash. Yeah. So you divide that by four. And the reason why is I think if you invest money to buy back your time, you should get an roi. And I think a four times ROI on that trade is what you want to aim for. And it turns out like if you think in business, like if I sell something, I want to have 70% gross margin. Getting a little nerdy on the business side. But yeah, that's where the 4 to 1 came from. Because people always ask me, why is it not 50%?

Totally.

But if you use that headspace, then you'll always look at the lowest cost to pay somebody else to support you. Ideally, things that you don't want to do, that's going to give you the biggest return on your energy and the financial impact.

It's such a good concept. And I want to talk about, where do you do that in your life today? Like, what are some key examples that are relevant now? Even maybe after writing the book initially, where you've grown to recognize these key areas in your life.

I'll give you some simple ones because obviously fly around on a jet buys back a lot of time.

Absolutely.

I know that for a fact. Having a driver, like chefs, all that stuff. But like, the basic things that I think is more approachable to people is. Is feel like you're worth it. See, most people don't feel worthy of investing in themselves. And what I learned a long time ago is you'll never get a penny more than you think you're worth. So for example, I have one of my best friends sold this company for 160 million and he can't bring himself to spend $30 on valet parking. Now we can sit here.

I've met people like that.

100%. Yeah. So. So my rule is, is like if. If you're still making decisions because of money, then you'll always be a prisoner of money. It's not that. It's not A consideration. It just can't be the primary consideration. So when I think of like, I know what my hours worth. I'm always trying to make these trades. So, for example, I'm here in LA for a week, but I do meal prep. So I hired a chef to do all my meal prep. So I don't have to think about it. I don't spend time ordering online, waiting for food. The decision fatigue. Yeah, I already know what it's going to. I work with my nutritionist. They. They send it over. So.

Good.

Yeah. So like when I end up in.

My house, I haven't thought about like the time. Not even like, okay, delivery, but it's like the time waiting and thinking.

Thinking. Decision fatigue.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's so much time sucked up. Like, that's why when people see me operate and they're like in my, you know, they watch it, they, they go, oh, you have so much energy. Well, because I don't do things that take my energy. Yeah, right. So I don't. And, and I'm here with you now because I'm not thinking about anything else because there's somebody on the other side of the door that's doing that. You see what I absolutely. And you know this. So it's like I get to show up and be present with the people I'm with, with my kids, my family, my business partners, whoever here with you. And then so, so stuff that's more approachable for most people, it's, you know, figure out all the things you're doing in your personal and professional life. Because a lot of people just go professional. But I actually think the personal side is where you can get the biggest wins. So a cleaning person, right? Like having somebody do a deep dive, clean, wash and fold laundry. Having somebody wash your car. The person that washes your car can also put gas in it. Okay. You know, the person that cleans your place can also go. Go get your car wash and put gas. Like, there's all these things that you don't think about. But I mean, how many times are you late for a meeting and then you're like, I gotta stop for gas. And then it just adds a big wrench to your day. So today I am ruthless about looking at my calendar through the lens I teach in the book.

Yeah.

To protect my energy and to buy back time. Because every hour I get back, then I get to make a decision on how do I want to trade it for something that is going to either bring more joy to my life and. Or have a bigger return. And I, and I do the process in the book that I teach probably three times a year, like a meaningful buyback loop.

Wow. So powerful, man. I mean, yeah, it's one of those things again too, like for people that are tuning in. Hey, not only do I recommend the book so strongly, but I've seen it and even how you operate and how you show up, it's, it's clear that you live these principles. Speaking of a topic that I find so important for entrepreneurs, you talked about like not feeling worth it and either having that self belief or having someone that believes in you. I remember hearing a story where a guy named Brian was very impactful in your life. Talk us through that time. I know you mentioned at the beginning of High Speed Chase, you know, you end up going to prison and stumbling upon this guy named Brian who really believed in you in a way that you maybe have never felt once before.

Never. I mean, so what happened is, is I, I just grew up in such an environment. You know, my mom was an alcoholic, my dad wasn't around much and ended up in drugs and hanging out with people twice my age and just learning things I should never learn. And honestly being exposed to things that no young person should. Like I ended up in, you know, group home foster care at a pretty young age. 11, 12, 13 years old. Yeah, I mean I ended up in, in juvenile detention twice by the time I was 17. Wow. So what happened was, is the second time that I was back, I got in a fight with this kid named Kirk. And that's the thing about, you know, it was an adult jail. Like it's so funny because nobody wants to fight, but as soon as somebody says something then it's like they gotta fight.

0 to 100.

Yeah. So it's like over coffee and it was over nothing. And all of a sudden it's like fight goes off, everybody's like brawling. And then the guards came in and, and they threw us in the hole in solitary confinement. And it was, wow. It was probably, Yeah, I was 16 then. It was probably the most degrading thing that I'd ever experienced. Even to this day where they, you know, just strip you down. You're in your underwear, you're sitting on a like this concrete slab AK bed, stainless steel toilet sink combo. Lights are on 24, 7. They don't, you know, you don't really know what time of day it is. They don't really talk to you and, and they don't even tell you how long you're going to be there for.

Yeah.

So I ended up being there for about three days and on the third day, the door opens and there's this guard named Brian that opens it and he's just, you look. I looked up and it's just face of disappointment. And that's because Brian was one of those. I don't know if you've ever had an adult in your life that, you know, you respected just because of the way they, just who they were, the way they were with you. You know, he was, he wasn't warm, but he was fair. If you respected him, he respected you. So, for example, if you didn't listen, you didn't get any extras. If you respected him, you'd look the other way if you wanted a second dessert kind of thing. So I had a lot of. I don't know how to explain it, but I just, I. I cared about his opinion and I knew he was going to be disappointed because he was on vacation when the fight happened. And he opens the door and he says, come with me. And we're walking back to the, the cell block. And essentially in prison there's like a place you go and a place you don't go. I had never stepped one foot past the entrance to the cell block. As we're walking past there, there's a door. We walk past it to the next door and he opens it up and it's the guard unit. And no inmates are allowed in the guard unit. I mean, as soon as I say that sentence, it's like, what? Like that's where everybody's personal belongings are and stuff. You know, I'm 16 and we go in there. He asked me to sit down in the corner. And I'm sitting there and he pulls up a chair and he just looks at me like this just no different than this. And he just goes, what are you doing here? And I said, well, I got in a fight with Kirk and they threw us in the hole. He goes, no, he was not that. He goes, what are you doing in this place? I was kind of confused and I was like, well, I got in a high speed chase and there was drugs and had a gun in a backpack. And he goes, it was not that, Dan. He goes, I don't get it. I've seen you do your homework. I've seen you interact with other people. I've seen the way you're like, you're like you're trying to be better and you're not like any of the other kids I've ever seen. And if you've never heard this Before I want you to know you don't belong here.

That's powerful.

And in that moment, I think for the first time in my life, I. I believed that I was even worth anything. I mean, prior to that, I didn't even believe I should be breathing the air I was breathing. I felt like I was taking space and somebody else is probably better off taking it. So for him to pull me aside and to express his belief of what he saw in me when I knew he'd get in trouble, like I wasn't supposed to be in that room, there was just something inside that just clicked where I just thought maybe, maybe I've gotten it wrong my whole life. Maybe all the parents that ever doubted me or told their kids they couldn't play with me, or the teachers that kicked me out of class, or like the dozens of just negative situations that just ate away at my self worth, maybe all that was not real. Maybe Brian was right. You know, he'd been working there for a decade and seen hundreds of kids come and go. And I, I broke down a bit and when I finally came together, he just, he just said, you got to get out of here. And it took a while, but eventually I got out and ended up in a rehab center that helped rebuild every part of me. Man, it's.

I think it's one of those. How I feel when you say that, you know, it's. And you can't. You know, we talked about it downstairs a little bit where like from a physique perspective, like you're seeing someone or experiencing someone that you either, like, don't even connect with. Like, you know, you want to be better, but the person in this current form is the furthest thing from that. What changed from that point on, like from that moment from being in that room, being talked to, from this guy Brian, to then starting your first company, software, like, where's the connection point or the tipping point? I should say that that led you from that moment at 16 to then starting companies and really leaning into this world of business and entrepreneurship.

I, I think it was just the process. You know what I ended up. So after I got out of there. So he, he extended a belief that he had.

He.

He like lent me, I don't know, confidence. Yeah, like, it's, it's just like sometimes we need other people to do that for us because we don't have it inside. And, and then with his belief in me, just keep going back to Brian. Well, Brian said so. Brian said so. So maybe it's true. Maybe I'm not dumb. Maybe I'm not a bad kid, maybe I'm a good kid. Maybe I've just been not surrounded with supportive people. So that started it. And then when I get out and end up in a rehab center, that place helped me understand my story. Dude, I, I, I told myself this happened therefore, right? I, I did this therefore. Like I shoplifted, therefore I'm a thief. No, I'm not a thief. I, I stole, but I'm not somebody. Like if you actually got me sober, I'm a really caring person, I'm a really kind person. I really will fight for the underdog. I just made some bad decisions in the people I spending time with and the things that I consume to just not feel because I was in such a, a lack of, of self worth. And so that's what shifted was just like starting to build my personal value and really just habits. I mean this is the big thing. The rehab center I went to, it was 11 month program which is like most programs. Yeah, 21 days. Absolutely 60 days, 90 days.

I interviewed just for context, someone that has become a good, dear friend. This guy Richard Tate, he was, he's the founder of a company called Cliffside Malibu. And it was one of the most renowned rehab treatment centers here in, in la and ended up selling that business. Now he's doing it again in this new concept. But it's taking it like from expectations of what people expect to then just that next level type of treatment that really works, you know, to their whole philosophy around what they do and, and.

And, and it takes a while and it is, it's, it's a process. And that's why like I look back at that 11 month journey for me and laugh because I got a first class experience of personal development. Dude. 17 years old, I got exposed to feeling management, anger management, leadership skills, communication skills. Like the program was run by the residents. That's how they designed it. So you start off as a new member, you end up as a middle peer, eventually an older member, eventually the chief. You wore the, the keys of the whole facility, the, the, the, the staff door to the, the, to the, the dessert room, to everything.

Wow.

At 17. So I came out of there not even realizing how equipped I'd been become. We talk about entrepreneurs.

Yeah.

Like for, for the first six, seven years I'd meet other adults and be like whoa, this person needs to go get some therapy. Cuz you meet them, they're just emotionally unhinged. They, you can see they have negative vices. So I just got this beautiful training, this experience around what I would call definitely personal development.

Absolutely.

At a young age, they just didn't call it that. So that's what changed for me is just this belief in my self worth, my belief in doing something and sticking to it. I mean, as soon as you get sober. And it was one of the biggest obstacles to overcome. And now I'm sober and I got a year in, and I got two years in and three years in, it just. It started to build up. And I think when I got into business, my dad always joked, he said, if you could just find something that you love to do that that isn't illegal, I think you do okay. And he was. He was super, right?

Yeah.

But it took getting out and. And getting into business. And even though I failed in business for a long time, the gift I had was that nobody had expectations for me other than it'd be great if Dan stayed sober.

Wow.

You know what I mean?

Like, absolutely.

That was such a.

That was a win in of itself.

That was the win. Dan, are you still sober? Yes. Oh, my gosh, we're so happy. Yeah. Oh, you fit. You failed in business.

Cool.

Like, not a problem. Like, I could have literally borrowed everybody's money, did a company lost their money, and as long as I was sober, they're like, okay, we don't have to worry about Dan. And so when I started having business success and it took a while, it took me like seven, eight years, that's when my whole life trans, like, transformed. Because then it was less about me and more about what. What I could do with that. How could I help other people? Wow.

Speaking of, like, mentorship and, like, going through that process, I don't know if it was the first or second business that you founded, Clarity fm. Was it the first business that. Or where was that in this life cycle of a company?

Like, the first? Oh, Clarity was two companies ago. I did. I did a bunch of companies that failed when I was 23. So it was funny as I was reading computer books, because that's what I fell in love with. That became my new addiction.

Okay.

Writing code. It took me till from 17 to 23 to actually read a business book.

Okay.

How old were you when you read a business book?

16. I'm 23 now.

Dude. That's crazy. So I was your age when I read my first book.

Okay. All these books are, like, I literally have notes to myself.

I hope you understand I have expectations for you that are huge. Okay.

Absolutely.

Okay. This is your. My. The possibilities are huge.

Yeah.

Yeah. And the reason why is because, like, the more time you have to compound, the better. Right. Like, I think reading, especially business books, it's been a habit. I've read over 1600, maybe 1700 books at this point.

Wow.

I'm addicted to it every morning, minimum throughout the day. I just, I understood a long time ago that if I want to be better, I have to have better thoughts. Well, where am I going to get those better thoughts? If I had them, I'd have them, but I don't. So I. I read almost as a way to. To positively brainwash myself into acquiring a different perspective. Because this world isn't as it is. It's as we are. Right. And like, if people understood how powerful that is. Yeah. If you're a negative person, you'll find negativity. If you think that the world is about scarcity and, and lack, you're going to find examples of that all. If instead you talk about abundance and opportunity and expansion, every conversation becomes about expansion. And people, you know, they always ask me about, like, positive mindset. It's like I have a belief we're all connected, every one of us. We're all individuals that have access to the connectivity and the resources and the creativity. And then to the degree that we can harness that, that energy, that's how we. We create things in the world. So, yeah, it wasn't until I was 23 that I read a book. The first book I ever read was Love is a killer app by a guy named Tim Sanders. Not a lot of people have heard of it. It did well back then.

Okay.

I got lucky because it talked about three things. One, becoming a good person. He called it a love cat. Second, acquiring knowledge not only for yourself, but here's a big idea. Read for your customers.

I thought that was a cool idea for your customers.

Read for your customers. Like, people are like, I don't know what I want to read. What business are you in this? Manufacturing.

Cool.

Read the top books on manufacturing and teach your customers, like, such a simple idea. But that, that's how you become a trusted adviser. That's how you become a thought leader. That's how you become somebody that knows about the thing. Right? And then the third one was your network is your net worth. Like invest in relationships. And like that one, when you think about possibility, because I. My expectations for you are now even bigger. Like just connecting my timeline to yours. But here's what people do for you, right? You'll never see a bigger possibility until somebody shows it to you, because it requires somebody else's lens to see it. Because if you saw it, you know what it is like.

So it's 100%.

So it's interesting when you actually think of the value of people in your life and if you show up with a belief that good people do win, because I think that's what I did not believe, that growing up, with all the negativity I was exposed to as a teenager, I thought rich people were evil people. Hard to get rich if you think everybody's evil. You're trying not to be evil.

Yeah.

So these money mindsets that we have, right? Totally. And then build relationships, invest in relationships like you would if you found somebody and it's like, oh, I. I would bet on that person. Like a stock, Invest in that stock.

Yep.

Time with them, support them.

That's been the biggest thing for me of this podcast. You know, it's even, you know, tomorrow I'm doing this speaking engagement at this podcast event, as I mentioned, and my whole session is called Voice to Venture. And it's really diving into this aspect of, for me, why I do this podcast. It's always been about three key things, right? Meeting great people like yourself, learning from them tangibly in person, and building the great relationship to create business opportunity. And one story, quick reference that I always talking about, a lot of people are like, oh, how do you monetize a podcast? Brand, deals, community, etc. There's obviously all that that I spend time on and do, but my last company, media kits, software business, we raised just under $1.5 million when I was 20. And 90% of the capital raised was from past podcast guests on the show. And it was like that four, five year compound from 16 to 2021 that allowed me to go out and raise this capital from trusted advisors that people want to, you know, invest time, money, effort into me. And then 18 months later, we got acquired back in 2022 by a Canadian company, actually Viral Nation, up in Toronto. And yeah, for me, like seeing that play out the way it did, it all comes back to the relationship capital. Like, I can't tell you the, the mentors and advisors that would help, like write my emails, help with the safe notes, all the legal work. I knew nothing about fundraising capital, all the things that related to, like that phase of the business, but it's the people. And that's why I've spent so much time, effort, money, just time in this world of podcasting, because I've seen it come back tenfold in terms of, like, the value investing in people. And just showing up to be a sponge of learning and hopefully, you know, providing value through the community and, and you know, as time goes on.

But dude, your, your results speak for them. Like, it's really impressive. Like just somebody at your age doing what you do. It's. Yeah. Like you could tell me this is what I've done and I'd be like, who are the people involved? Because it's just, it's kind of back to Henry Ford's thing.

Right.

You can't know everything. And we're all a byproduct of the kind of the accumulated knowledge of the people that we allow into us. And dude, I used to be the guy that used to think I had to do it all myself. The reason why that book specifically I had to write is because I was not that person. And I would work 100 hour weeks.

Yeah.

And I would kill myself trying to be successful because that's all I knew. I had one gear and I didn't care much about myself. So I would just do it. And then I realized there's a lot of pain on the other side of that.

Yeah.

And totally. Hey, man, if you're willing to be vulnerable and open and ask for help, because that's key. Like, why do people not. When you talk about worthiness, why don't people ask for help? They don't feel they deserve it.

Yeah.

Hey, let's talk about that. That's powerful.

There's a lot of topics that I want to touch on with you. You know, you talk a lot about family, about health. You showed me these transformation photos and I'm blown away. But just to tie in the business aspect of that, you know, you built and sold three different companies over the course of a 10 year period. I want to talk about how you managed, you know, family within these, these companies and the stress that comes with that, but also the health aspect. And how has that changed over time for you when it comes to managing these multifacets of your life while doing building teams, scaling companies, getting acquired, and doing it over and over and over again?

Yeah, it's, it's a great question. I would say not very well in the early days. Like I can't sit here and do what I call success theater because I, I didn't know how. And, and that's, I can tell you where I've landed with some thoughts. I mean, over the years I've learned there's three things that I have to evaluate before I say yes to something. Because I think most people don't realize that A yes is essentially a no to something else. And a no is saying yes to some people, the one of your dreams or goals. So right off the bat, you know, I think when we're younger we think we can do a lot of stuff, so we say yes a lot. Yeah. And then on the back end of that we get a lot of feedback and go, okay, there is only so many things I can do really well. And saying yes to opportunities is also saying no to my girlfriend, no to my wife, no to my kids. So I'm, I've, over the years I keep adding these kind of like filters for if and when I say yes. So one of the filters is I don't say yes unless the, the success habits that I've committed to myself, my eating, my drinking, you know, like drinking, like quality, you know, hydration, my, my mindfulness, my reading, all that stuff, if those things are going to be sacrificed, like I wouldn't do it, like if I, I wouldn't say yes to something that required the first two hours of my day. Those are my, those are my hours. So right off success habits. Second is commitment to others. The times I've, I've created pain in my relationship with my wife or felt like I wasn't showing up properly for my kids is because I said yes to something that took away from the things I've already committed to. Driving my kids to school, putting them bed at night. So like sometimes in the excitement of a new opportunity, I say yes and I forget, oh no, I've already made these commitments to people. For me to even say yes to this, I have to go and evaluate and renegotiate those commitments. So that's the second thing. And then the third one is the business fundamentals. See, what usually causes pain for a lot of entrepreneurs that, that are successful is saying yes to more stuff. And then the new thing not only isn't doing well, taking your eye off of your existing thing, causes that not to do well. And then you have this double whammy. Yeah, we've all done it. I mean that's why I can't sit here and tell you like, this is how I did it and I was always successful. No, I did it that hurt. Tried a little bit different, hurt less, Try a little different, hurts way less. And now going forward, having gone through, yes, building three companies in a 10 year period, this is how I do it today. So I start off by evaluating those three things. If I can see myself saying yes and not sacrificing those three things, then I say yes, but then I'm very quick to move to a who now. So that is what's unique about my approach. And again, the more resources you, you create in life and optionality, then when you say yes, you should immediately move to like, who's gonna own this? Because it's not like I wake up every day and I have free time. Like, I'm already committed, right? So like, it's funny, a guy came out to my party the other day and he's like, hey man, I saw your talk today and I think, I think I could help you make an extra million dollars a year. And I was like, dude, I'm good. He's like, wait, you don't like a million dollars a year? I said, I, I already know what, like it's, there's zero part like. And he's like, what do you mean? I go, well, I, I don't say yes to things that I can't see a clear line of sight to.50 million within three years. He's like, well, that's crazy. I said, no, it's not. You're probably taking meetings with strangers that you don't even know for 10k opportunities. And every time you say yes to that 30, 40, 50 minute meeting hour meeting, you're saying no to your existing dreams and goals. You already know what you could be doing and then you're giving up your time because you don't feel like there's value there. So what's interesting is that once you really quantify back to the buyback rate what your value production is, then you can be a lot more discerning on saying yes to things. And look, I'm also the person that when there's opportunities that feel aligned, I'll say yes and move things around. Like, I like to be moved by spirit and opportunity, but at the same time, like I'm, I'm very, that's, that's the way I've been able to build companies and increase velocity. Because the more talent you can bring into your world, the more management bandwidth you can use to create more. So that's my philosophy.

It's like, great.

I'm, I'm a collector of talent. Okay. If you meet my team, you'll be like, man, these are talented people for sure. I've got talented and ripped. Yes. Yeah, it just happens, you know, birds and feather, they. But I mean, that's the thing is I just, I focus on my health. Health is wealth. My energy's there. I can do a lot more if I don't have to Deal with the repercussions of making bad decisions. Right. Like, I coach a lot of men and women that, you know, on the backside of them making a bunch of stupid decisions, they end up getting divorced. And it's like, what did that cost when you could have hired a therapist or gone on a couple's retreat or prioritize your marriage? They're like, oh, I don't want to do that. I'm like, you don't know the cost on the back end and headspace when you're with you that you're building a world class company on the back end of divorce. No. You're, like, consumed by all these lie. Just like, it's just not worth it.

Totally. It's. You can't prioritize this one key thing.

No. You check out your business and then you go sideways for two years.

Yep.

Momentum is powerful.

How was that? The couples retreat I just saw you did back.

Back in Cabo.

Right. I was like, oh, my gosh. As someone that I'm 23, I'm engaged, I'm getting married next year. I feel so gravitated towards things like that. Moving into this year and especially into marriage. How was that? I'd love to hear the experience of that.

You know, it was on the back end of being asked to do it for nine years. Wow. Yeah. So my wife. Yeah. This is the first one. We weren't even sure if we were gonna do another one. We limited to 10 couples. It was only. It was only ever offered to. To existing clients of mine, and it sold out in a day, which was really cool. Yeah. And it was a premium investment, but we wanted to get people that were aligned with our values. Like, my wife and I have an unlimited budget for our health, our mindset, our relationship, our kids. Like, those are. If those are really your priorities, then why do you have an unlimited budget for investing in your business? But the stuff I see all the time is fascinating. But it was our first one. And what was very cool was to see how the people that showed up, because I knew most of them. I only knew either the wife or the husband because I coached them.

Yep.

The other ones, I was worried because I'm like, I wonder how they're going to be. Turns out birds of feather flock together. So the, The. The people we got to meet were all great people. And then just watching the themes that arose, I mean, there was, you know, I, I shared our approach to choosing other families to do life with. That was a big idea for them.

Wow. They were like, oh, explain that.

Well, a long time ago, I realized I enjoy going on vacation with other families. A. Even a family where the kids play with our kids. Yeah, it's just easier and it's fun.

Yeah.

Crazy idea. So my wife and I, probably six years ago, we sat down and we started making a list of other entrepreneurial couples or couples in general that we wanted to vacation with. And it was a very intentional, deliberate thought. But what's fascinating is that when you sit down and you make a list, your list might look different than your wife's list and who you both agree on. Because think about it, there's a lot that has to be true. You need to want to hang out with him. She needs to want to hang out with her.

Yeah.

You trust their parenting style. You trust their current kids attitude to influence in your kids.

Like, there's a whole big decisions.

There's a. There's a whole lot that has to be green for it to be a yes.

As.

It's funny because yesterday I was hanging out with. So I don't want to throw them under the bus, but I was hanging out with some good friends and we were going to watch his 1. His son's baseball game. So I said, hey, why don't I grab the kids? I'll take them in my car. You guys drive and have a talk. So I took the kids, and the daughter was telling me I was asking her about sleepovers. Okay. And she says, well, I'm not allowed to do sleepovers unless the family's an 8 out of 10. I go, what does that mean? And she goes, well, my mom has this, like, family rating where if she doesn't feel like she's. They're at least an 8. I'm not allowed to do a sleepover. And I was like, laughing because then I wanted to know if we were an eight. But. Yeah, but I mean, that's. That's kind of. That was the big idea of, hey, be intentional about your relationships. Most people do vacations with family members. Hey, you don't have to do every vacation with your family member. You can. You can do Christmas and then everything else. You can go and try to find. I'll tell you that my life joy, the joy units, the experience just elevated when I started doing trips and vacations with other couples and families. Yeah. Last year we did nine families on a yacht in Croatia. Wow.

Nine families.

Seven. Seven families. 18 kids. Yeah. Sam, you're there. Yeah. Yeah. Seven families.

That is so cool.

Yeah, it was a big. It was a big trip. Again. I got to get to know the. I mean, you learn so much about the parent through the child. Yeah, right, Absolutely.

So.

So if you talk about you have.

Two boys, how old are your kids now?

10 and 11. They're Irish twins. Oh yeah. 11 months apart.

So great.

Yeah. And they, they have a blast. And, and that's the thing is I travel with them a lot. So, like when I do trips, if I'm doing a speaking thing, I'll bring one and we, I just alternate.

That's so cool. Yeah.

They just see life and I think that was the big thing from the couple's retreat.

That, that's so powerful, man. And just to interject, I grew up in an environment where Until I was 16 years old, I didn't fly in an airplane. My parents, you know, they're not entrepreneurial. My mom's been a special ed teacher for the last 13, 14 years. My dad's worked at a company, Philip Morris, like tobacco company, for 30 plus years. And like, seeing life, I think just I heard that and like, that's something I didn't see growing up in terms of, you know, of course I did in my own world of Virginia and hockey trips up and down the east coast, but in terms of flying and traveling and like seeing what the world had to offer, that's when I, you know, social media, when I look a lot, people say, like, there's so much negative on social. Of course there is. But as a 16 year old that was able to exactly what you said, like, see life and opportunity and experiences and like, what's out there. That for me was like a window of unlocking this like, unknown world that was out there for me and for us, you know, young entrepreneurial tendencies. Right. So it's, I think that's so powerful for like bringing kids around what you do in the real world and having.

Them, it's just life. Yeah. I don't want my kids to ever feel like they don't know what I do. Yeah. And the only way I'm going to show, I think the best thing I could ever do to equip them in this world is to just have them be surrounded by people I admire.

Yeah.

So, like, when I go do a podcast tour or go speak at an event and the organizers, a friend of mine, like, I want my children to know these people totally. And to follow them on social media eventually. They don't have phones or anything, but I can't wait where they're able. Because you're right, social media can be awesome and it can be a huge Drag on our psychology.

Yeah.

And it depends on who we follow.

Absolutely.

So how can we be upset that they're following a bunch of ding dongs when we haven't shown them the alternative and. And really good hearted people that have really good values.

Totally. I think it's powerful. On the concept of like I learned so much from my last company getting acquired. You've sold three companies. What was the. You talk about your compound learning what. What did you learn from the first acquisition to the second to the third. And I'd love for you to dive into more for people that may not know like the different verticals of companies that you were a part of outside of the ones that you're investing in and acquiring now.

Yeah. The first company I built at 24 is so funny because when I go back to that Dan. That version of Dan. Right. Because you see my evolution. Even just showing you the pictures like every year I'm trying to expand and grow and that was insecure. 24 year old trying to sell the Fortune 500 companies. I was selling enterprise portal software. And I wore a suit and tie every day.

Wow.

Yeah. And I worked 100 hours a week and I kept all the plates spitting. Right. When we exited. We had about 35 employees. And I built that over four years. And it was to this day the hardest thing I've ever done because I didn't know. I didn't have perspective. I didn't have a. You know, I had a business mentor coach for the first 16 months. And he helped me go from like literally failed company, Failed company, failed company. Hired this guy Bob and went from 0 to 940, 000 in 12 months. Wow. Yeah. And then, and then I just, I kept learning. I kept hearing the same stuff. So I stopped working with him. But I wasn't smart enough then to hire another coach. So I kind of went in alone and I was. I was just working and grinding and grinding. And that's when my whole relationship fell apart. I was actually engaged to another woman.

I remember reading.

Yeah. Yeah. It was a tough period at 27. Wow. And I was working at the office one day on a Sunday. It was the afternoon I was supposed to be home by five. That's what it was. And because we were going to her parents for dinner and I looked down. It's like 6:10. I like jump in the car and like. And then we just bought this new place. I think it was like seven weeks before the wedding. Rush up the stairs in the front door and I just see her in Tears in the kitchen.

Wow.

Yeah. And she just can't even. I mean, she's just beside herself. And she just takes the ring off and just drops it on the counter and says, I'm done, and walks right past me. And I just knew. I don't know if you've ever. Women are fascinating. And I'll tell you why is because when they make the decision, it's been made. Not like, man, I don't know. Men. I was like, convince me otherwise.

Yeah, we're not gonna do that.

But, yeah, I'm really upset. But, you know, I'm not that upset.

Yeah.

No, she was.

Wow.

She'd probably been thinking about it for months.

How did that change you as a man after that? I mean, it rushed me because I'm. And I'm asking that from the perspective of. And if I would have asked you this a year, two years ago on the show, I would have had a much different perspective. But now being engaged and, you know, getting married and next April. I get it.

Yeah. And you're driven, and I'm in it. Yeah. Trying to create. Yeah. Trying to build that future.

Yeah.

Here's. Here's what I learned. And I have so much. And I've. I've apologized to her over the years because, like, as I've done the work, I realize how selfish I was. But in. In retrospect, I used to tell myself this story that I was doing all of that sacrificing 100 hours a week, 200 days on a plane, late nights, early morning, like, just. Just trying to build.

Yeah.

And she says to me, I never asked for any of that. And she's not wrong. I think that's what happens. A lot of men and women that I coach today, they're. They think I'm doing this for a future. I'm trying to create this place, the kids and the house and all that stuff. All they want is you. All she ever wanted is for me to be more excited to come home to see her than I was about a business win. So that was the big shift for me, is. And it took months. It took almost a year for me to decide do I actually want to be in another relationship, or can I. Do I have to just resolve that I will always be the cool, rich uncle? That was like a year of contemplation. And I went on the journey. I read, you know, the way the Superior man. I. I read Women are from Venus. Like, I read all these. These books on psychology and relationships to try to figure out, like, can I be that person. And the big shift for me from that company. Next one was I just started applying the business best practices in my relationship.

Wow.

And I know that sounds cold to a lot of people. I don't care. It works. Yeah. And I'll tell you why. It's because they're rituals for a reason. Because they work. The reason why we do a weekly family meeting, quarterly couples retreat, like we just did in Cabo. Like, essentially, that was our quarterly retreat. We just invited some families to come do them with us. To our monthly reviews, to the fact that we have a business coach, a family coach, a child coach.

Wow.

Available to us. Like Esther Perel. The. The world's best people. Of course. Why would I only do that stuff in my business? Because the business is nothing more than an organization.

Yeah.

Right. We have family values. We have mission statements. We have all these things that we use to kind of. That we created because I didn't want to just grab stuff that I was exposed to as a child. I wanted to say, hey, now that I know what I know, what do I want it to look like? Like, what family rituals do I want? What does our family crest look like? What are our values? Not the ones I might have picked up that I didn't realize. I picked up the ones that I was intentional. I co created with my kids. That's what shifted from that company to the next company.

Wow.

That allowed me to be in the relationship I'm in now. Married 14 years, two beautiful kids, and I've never felt more connected to my wife ever.

That's so powerful, man.

Yeah. But it required doing the work. Yeah. And I just wasn't sure I was able to. Honestly. That's why I had to contemplate.

Yeah.

The second company, the big lesson there was that was a company called Flowtown. That's when I learned the big idea of the who, not how. So I just got lucky that when I started that company, I didn't want to be the CEO. So I co founded it with Ethan, my co founder, and I made him the CEO. And. And then I got to see a different dynamic for me because I think a lot of creators, we feel like we're the creator. I'm supposed to be the person at the top. And then I get to co create with him. And he dealt with all the stuff I didn't want to do, like literally finance, hr, strategic planning, all this stuff I wanted to do marketing and biz. Dev, he took care of that. That opened up my eye to a completely different way of working and Then when I did my next company, Clarity, I applied that same philosophy just as leaders in my company. And then, since then, just the way I build my empire, where I now have a bunch of different business partners, and I show up as the talent. I live, like, even my media company today. Yeah. I have a GM general manager, Todd, who runs the company. Like I.

The media company.

Yeah. Like, great. Like, technically, Sam works for Todd.

Yeah.

Right. But I'm the talent, so I. I collaborate with him all the time, but somebody else runs every aspect of it. Right. And now I don't even say yes to doing a business until I have a whole. I don't need the CEO company ever again.

I love that.

Yeah. And like SaaS Academy, I'm the owner, but Johnny runs it. He's the CEO, Matt's the coo, and there's a whole executive leadership team. And, you know, I get my reports, I look at things, I show up, I ask them, what do you need from me? And it's. It's been. It feels way lighter. And if you ask them, they'd rather me be here talking to you about this book and concepts and building the brand because it helps their business.

Yeah. What? And you're someone that, like, over the years of being on social and like, seeing, you know, these entrepreneurial stories and voices amplified, you're someone that I remember when I came across your content, I couldn't stop seeing you everywhere. When did you make the decision to. When you say, like, create this media company to amplify your brand, your story? Because not only have you done a phenomenal job, but you've done it in a way that I think has built a great community that people know, like, trust you to a point where, you know, like we talked about for the show, the books number 10 on the charts, and you're really creating deep relationships with the community. Different than some people that might just have more, like, surface level. Yeah. Go. You know this person. But you've done a great job. And I want you to know that as someone that's been following and really feeling connected to your story and what you do. But when was that decision for you to go from, like, you know.

Yeah, we were. We were talking about. On the drive over here. It was exactly. Almost a year ago. Wow. That's it.

No way.

Yeah. Yeah. Last March. Last March. And I'll tell you what happened. I think this will serve everybody.

Yeah, please.

Is. For years, I produced content. Like, I had a YouTube channel, I had an Instagram account, but it was a fraction of the Size that it is today. And what I did was what I think a lot of people do in business is they play not to lose. What I change is I decided to play to win. I decided to go from being an amateur at this doing. I literally used to brag at how little I spent on it to get the results I got. So I went from that to listening to my own advice. This is a problem with being somebody that talks about growth and scale all the time is that you have to, like, listen to yourself and go like, are you really doing this? To asking myself a simple question. When I look at my bank account or I look at my calendar, am I really dedicating if I say it's important to me? Show me. Yeah, I couldn't show it to you, man. It wasn't there. Everything else was important. Everything else was getting invested in. And it was last year, a year ago, where I just said, enough's enough. I call my business partners up. I had to renegotiate my commitment to others.

Yeah.

That's all the stuff I told you. I had to go through that same process. And I said, here's what I'm thinking of doing. The book came out in January. It was doing so well. I said, I think I'm going to go build this media company to support the message of the book and help more people. And indirectly, it's going to help everything else we do. And. And we went all in. It was like, we got a studio. So we.

We.

So Sam came on board as my creative director, Business partner, hired Todd, built out a whole team, got a studio. 4,500. 4,500 square feet that we moved in September 1, got it built out. We were shooting content in October. Now there's a team of, like, 15 people there. Like, we're. Yeah, it's.

I mean, that's crazy. I didn't know. It was only.

It's been a year. And. And.

Wow.

And we're. We're going for top five in the world.

Wow.

And I'm willing to dedicate my life. I'll call. I'll call the shot right now.

Yeah.

I'm not gonna stop.

That's.

We're just gonna keep going. Like. I will. I will. I. I don't have a problem working hard. I got a problem balancing things. And if I do a fraction of how I show up. Because. Because when I build companies, when anybody's partnering with me, they're like, okay, Dan just knows how to get stuff done.

Yeah.

I just. I just make it done. If it Requires getting up earlier or do whatever, I'll just get it done. And like, that's what I dedicated because, like, if I really care about helping troubled youth, like, really cared, like, don't, don't just say it. But actually, even though I was showing up with my time, there's nothing more powerful I could ever do that. Make sure every idea or thought or story, my story that connects to that is captured and shared with the world.

Yeah.

So that's why I have a full time videographer. I have a team of four guys that literally all depending on my schedule, who's available, they, they travel with me. We do the vlog, we do the YouTube core, we do the Instagram, we do shorts, we have a team of editors, we have timestampers. We like, we treat it like we're professionals.

Absolutely.

And we're willing to iterate and grow. And I think that for a lot of people, they want to be successful, but they're playing not to lose. And the way to shift the whole thing is start playing to win. Deciding it is something that you want to be world class at and become a professional. You know, Steven Pressfield wrote the book Going Pro.

Yeah.

Turning Pro. That's all I did. I, I knew the pattern. I did it in other areas of my life. I just was not doing it in this area. And it turns out on the, this is the big, this is a big idea. And I sat down with Hermosi. So Layla and Alex are friends. We were in Vegas. I sat down with them, Ryan, Pineda, and we just, we kept visiting studio sets. Like, we kept meeting people. And I'm like, well, my stuff don't look like this. Like, we don't have a studio set. We don't have an office. We don't have it. It's not real. And I was like, enough's enough. I'm going all in. And the reality is, is every one of my goals, dreams, vision is on the back end of reaching reputation. Everything. Yeah, everything that my wildest, craziest, like, wouldn't it be cool if I did this with this person on this thing and da, da, da. This part of the world and traveled in a region. Reputation. Yeah, that's it. So when you say, like, I'm, I'm impressed with the community built. Thank you. Because it's very intentional. Dude, I'm in there replying to the comments. I'm engaging. I'm asking, what do you want to hear more of what works like every day.

I'll see you. You know, you're here in la, you're with your family every night. Like this week leading up to this interview. Like, you're outside, you know, probably you see family in the back, you're doing the stories. I'm like, damn.

I didn't never miss.

I didn't do that. Today with Dann is like, every day. You're on it every day.

I just made a commitment.

Yeah.

I can't ask people to be consistent if I'm not.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it compounds. Consistency. Compounds. I actually became friends now with the John Maxwell leadership goat.

Yeah.

And he said. Because I was like, you know, I was. I was a little awestruck first time I ever talked to him on the phone. I was like, john, like, it's kind of crazy what you've built. And he goes, oh, Dan, it's not that impressive. You know, Consistency compounds. He goes, I've been doing this for, you know, I don't want to misquote him, but let's say 42 years.

Yeah.

I've written 90 books. Not that impressive. I've done one thing, one. I had one good idea. I've done my whole Life, and I'm 77 now. It's actually not that impressive. And I say, when. When was the book 21 irrefutable laws of Leadership, which is the most famous book? It was number 13, not number one. Number 13. He wrote 13 books until the book that said his whole career. So I was just at his event as a friend. He invited me in Orlando, and Dion Sanders is, like, backstage and. And, you know, all these crazy luminaries, and I'm like, I can do that. I can show up. I'll just do it.

Yeah.

Yeah. I just trust.

That's so.

So that's the real answer.

That's so crazy to hear that and to understand how you guys really, like, went all in on it. That's impressive.

And we're only getting crazier about it.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I called the other day. I said, I just gave you a million dollars. I'm wiring it to your bank account. What are you gonna do with it? He's like, I don't know. I said, that's why I'm giving you a million dollars. Go. Like, there's no constraint. Let's just figure it out. Like, I don't. I don't ever. Anytime. I feel like, again, we're incremental. You have to. You gotta break that pattern. That's like, all I do in business is stop people from thinking linear. That's it.

Yeah.

When I coach people, they Think linear. I go, we're going exponential. You can't add a zero and do the same thing you were doing last year. It's impossible if you actually want to add a zero to everything you're doing. The thinking has to be broken and we have to change the paradigm. And the only way to do it is to force people to say what would need to be true if you had an extra million a month you had to spend efficiently. I'm not saying go waste it. Yeah, he's not running to, you know, steak dinners.

It's just.

This just happened. Yeah, PJs. Yeah, this a month ago. I said, what are we doing? Yeah, I want. I wanna. I want us to expand our.

Our.

What can we do?

Yeah. Wow. I cannot wait to see what the next year has in store.

We're not.

It's.

It's. Give us a decade.

Yeah, no, hey, absolutely. That's what's cool. I last question here on this show, Dan. SaaS Academy. I'd love for you to end on, you know, what, what is SAS Academy in terms of, like, why you spend time on it and in the world of software for those that are out there that are either building software companies or that are looking to start one. And I feel that you've been in the soft world for a long time, but SaaS is so hot right now in terms of just people that I'm speaking to and just different entrepreneurs. Everyone's talking about it and wants to lean into it, whether that's something they've done before or they want to. Where can they start with SaaS Academy and what is it? For those that may not know, it's.

The largest software CEO mentoring, coaching, training company in the world. Like, we built it. For the last seven years, I took everything I learned from building SaaS and like, again, like you said, it's hot now. It's been since I was 17, right?

Like, yeah, yeah.

You know, when I was 17, we were building software, we installed them on servers, and then eventually Salesforce comes out and teaches the whole world that it's okay to use business software through the Internet. That wasn't a thing that people did before. And it used to be called ASP, Application Service Providers, then the Cloud, and then SaaS more recently, and we'll see what it morphs into. But essentially, if you have an idea, and really we work with people that have software out there and they're already revenue generating. So at least like 1 or 2k a month, the product market fit. Early stages, you know, is like the hardest, for sure. And some people sell that. They'll teach people how to prototype and all that. We just give all that for free on our YouTube. Like, it's like we give all of it for free. But if you're a software CEO that wants to level up your leadership, your skill set, pricing, packaging, positioning, you know, go to market strategies, sales, marketing, that's what we do better than anybody else.

In the world, absolutely love that. I'll be sure to link that down below. And final thing, final thought. For those that are either just coming across you or want to stay in touch with more about what you do, learn about the couples retreats, the coaching you have. Where's the best place for people to learn more about everything you do?

Instagram's my favorite because the messaging platform is the best. So if people follow me there, we do something special for this audience. If they want my internal. A lot of people read the book and they're like, how do you met you and you met. And.

Yeah.

So I asked Ann about a few months ago if she could sanitize our internal standard operating procedures for our executive assistant playbook. So if people listening to this follow me and message me, Casey, I will send them a direct link to a EA Playbook, Google Doc, no opt in, no email, no nothing. Just met, follow me and then message me, ea, Casey, and I will send you the internal playbook. But here's. Here's what I want to share with everybody, is if you follow me, know that I'm gonna push you. I mean, you get it. Like, yeah, I'm not here for, like, just motivation. I want to see transformation. So here's. Here's my. My plea for everybody, because this is what changed my whole life. I want people that are committed to becoming the best version of themselves. Many ways. I call it the 10.0 version of yourself. Like, the person that if you're a person of faith, that God created you in his image. But another way to think about it that I think is powerful is, is I think your biggest gift sits right next to your biggest pain. And if you could wake up every day to try to become the person you needed most in your darkest days, that person, that's an awesome thing to strive towards. And then the second part of that is share that process with the world. That's all I do. When you say I watch you consistently show up every day, all I'm doing is saying, this is what works for me. I feel like I have an honor to Brian and the hundreds of other brides that have come into my life since then to pass it along, show other people, pay it forward. So I do that on every social media platform possible. But that is the underlying purpose behind it, is to be an example and share what works for me. I don't know if it'll work for you, but this is how I do it. This is how I've done it. This is what works. And it's all free. And I love social media for that.

I love that. Well, thank you again for taking the time with us here, Dan. I'll be sure to link everything down below. Such an absolute pleasure. And for those that are watching or listening, thank you so much for tuning in. Make sure you go check out everything that Dan has to offer and I will see you in the next episode.