DJ Swivel - Grammy Award Winning Producer, Mixer and Songwriter

Legacy of Monsters An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place. It's not ours. Believe me, the most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise. Oh my God. Go, go, Go. Legacy of monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV plus.

Hold music. You want to avoid it and so do your customers. So say goodbye to holdmusic and hello to faster, smarter support with Salesforce. Make service more personal and agents more productive using built in trusted AI. Then watch costs and wait times drop and satisfaction soar. Support customers in a whole new way with Service GPT. Learn how@salesforce.com ServiceGPT what is going on? Everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. On today's episode, I sat down with DJ Swivel. Jordan Young, known professionally as DJ Swivel, is a Canadian music producer, mixer, audio engineer and dj. He is a prominent audio engineer best known for working with Beyonce as her personal recording engineer. He has also worked with bts, Jay Z, Kanye West, Fabulos, Jayshawn, and many others. In this conversation we talked about what it takes to not only become a Grammy winning producer, but how to navigate the music business. So please, before we get into this episode, share this episode with a friend. Screenshot it, post it on your Instagram story tag DJ Swivel. Tag myself AC and again, thank you so much for listening. If you haven't already, leave a five star review on itunes. It means the world. Enjoy. All right, what is going on everyone? Kasey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. Today we have my man, DJ Swivel coming on the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

Thanks for having me.

So we met originally beginning of this year, was it?

No, it would have been last.

Last year for sure. Okay.

Interesting way of meeting.

Yeah, very interesting little meeting. But man, your. Your career has been amazing. You're not only have won Grammys and have worked with some of the biggest musicians in the world, but you just the way I've known you have, you're. You're such a humble person and your character is amazing. But I want to tell the people if they don't know who DJ Swivel is, how do you describe what you do?

Well, I do a lot and I'm sure we'll get more into it, but everything surrounds this like hub. I sort of reference my career as like a bicycle wheel and like the hub is like creating music and making music. But then there's all these spokes that sort of extend and protrude outwards that are related to music and related to what I do in music, but might be, you know, unrelated in practice. Practice. So, you know, like developing software that might be music related. And my experience working in music is helpful for it, but it's not the core, it's not the core job or role of creating music. So I just sort of describe myself as somebody who tries to do a lot of things and I happen to love music and everything sort of revolves around that for sure.

So how did you initially get into the music business? Like, where did this all start?

Well, I was always a fairly decent student in high school, but music was the thing that I really excelled at. Like I did, you know, won a music award and I was just always interested in music. I just liked it. And I think over time, like I was fortunate.

I had.

My mom was very supportive of like, you know, I don't care what you do with your life, just make sure you choose something that you really love. And that was sort of reinforced from when I was young. And so I would always think about, well, what's the thing that I'm not going to be tired of? Like, what's the thing that I'm. Because I tried everything, right? I don't know how you were as a kid. I played every sport I was in, every club. You know, you try a lot of things and try to. There's a lot of discovery and music was the thing that, that stuck. And every time I was introduced to something new in music, first it was like playing instruments like violin and trumpet and, and bass guitar. And then I got into DJing and that opened up a new world. And then in my high school, I learned how to produce and like use a keyboard and different. Like one keyboard can make an entire song. And that was amazing to me. And so every time there was new discovery, my love for the space just grew. And then, yeah, it just seemed like the logical thing to do. Like, do I want to get a four year degree doing like a business thing or do I just want to go after this, like, dream?

For sure. And you're from Canada, right?

Yeah, from Toronto.

Okay, so when was the moment of where, you know, you graduate high school, you're going all in on music career? Like, what was the first. Some of the projects that you've worked on since then? I know that you've worked with people like Beyonce and Kanye west and so many amazing artists, but like, who was the first person that you worked with? That had some success.

The first artist I have, my first paid client was Fabulous.

Okay.

I had done a couple little paid gigs before that, but, like, my first client that I was going in every day was. Was the rapper Fabulous. And so I really learned the craft of engineering with him. I learned a lot more about production. I wasn't producing for him, although I did end up producing one song for him. But, yeah, he was the first client where I had to. You know, you're starting your own business, right? I'm an independent contractor. I gotta learn how to send out invoices. And then also in music, you really have to learn how to speak to people and interact with people. And a lot of the music business is just making sure that the artists feel comfortable around you. So there was a lot of learning in that. And Fab and I are still friends to this day, and. And, yeah, I learned a ton sort of working under him. He was, like, the first paid client. And I met him through, you know, my mentor Duro, who signed Fabulous. So it was all sort of in the family, for sure.

Like, what was the journey of going from people like Fabulous to working with bigger stars? Like, what was the journey of working with different people? And how does that even work behind the scenes? Right, because you go to someone's Instagram or you see a producer, and they've worked with dozens of the biggest stars. Like, how was the buildup and what does that look like from a career perspective?

Yeah, I mean, I. I think I was very fortunate in my career, actually, because I got an internship with a guy named Duro in New York City, and he had signed him and DJ Clue started Desert Storm Records. They signed Fabulous. That's how I got in the door with Fabulous.

Yep.

But then after that, it's like, sort of you. You know, the people who I met around Fab, I. You know, the way that I connected with Beyonce. Fabulous's assistant, she was dating an ANR who happened to used to work with Beyonce or Destiny's Child on tour. He was like a tour manager, helped help them on the road. His name is Omar Grant. Just through knowing him through these Fab sessions, because he would be around at some point, Beyonce's team called him and said, hey, do you have an engineer to fill in? And he thought of me. Right. There was no plan there. There wasn't. There wasn't, like, a strategic thing. We're gonna try and, like, land a session with Beyonce.

Yeah.

I just got a random phone call one day that was like, hey, like, we know you. We Trust you. We know that you can work around artists, and she needs somebody like, can you help? And so it was really about being of service and then just generally making friends and building relationships and sort of like expanding the network. Just from the sessions you're already in.

Yep. And it's like being. Being in the right place at the right time. Like you're. You're setting yourself up for that moment.

Yeah, yeah.

How was it working with Beyonce the first time?

The first time I ever met her was like. Like, I was extremely nervous. Yeah, I actually met her in the bathroom.

Okay.

Sounds crazy, but, like, how does that work? I was at Roc Nation Studios and I'm like, you know, she was a little bit late, and so I was just using the restroom. Like I was washing my hands. Like it wasn't anything embarrassing or anything, but she. She walked in to use the bathroom, and it's just like a single person bathroom, and I'm just washing my hands. She's like, oh, I'm sorry. And she just shut the door. And I could tell she was a little embarrassed. And to be honest, it kind of like broke the ice a little bit. Come out and be like, hey, I'm the engineer you asked to, you know, used.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's how I met her. The first day was pretty nervous, but at the end of the day, like, I've done the job before, so it wasn't. Wasn't that I didn't feel like I was qualified. I totally was qualified. But, you know, you know, the pressure is high. The stakes are high. You want to try and close that gate gig. You want to try and be able to come back. So obviously you want to do a good job. So, yeah, that was a little nerve wracking. But eventually she called me back and then we just sort of got into a flow and then it just became.

Like, anything for sure. That's so cool, man. And I want to ask you something that is along the same lines of like a moment. Right? I know. Even I walk into your house and you see and you hear the word Grammy, right? You're a Grammy winner. What does that feel like? And what was that feeling like on the day that you won a Grammy?

Oh, that was. So I was. I found out. So basically a group of us got together at Drew from the Chainsmokers house. They were nominated for three awards that year.

Okay.

One of which I was nominated for. And so we're all getting ready at his house and we. They have two sprinter vans ready to take the whole crew. So management Tour management, the girlfriends, the family, the moms, the dads. Like, everybody's coming down. There's like 30 of us going down. And we were walking out of his car, getting ready to go down to this, the red carpet. And somehow I heard from the other van somebody scream. I was like, what's going on? Whatever. And then sort of like the information just traveled again. We're all just getting like rolling into the van. I think I'm like in one of the back seats or something. So then it happens. Then everybody sort of gets out and we're all like celebrating. So we celebrate on. On this. On a side street in front of Drew's house.

Wow.

And that's how we found out. And then we made our way down. And of course, like, you know, that was an award that was done on the pre telecast that we won. So it was Best dance Recording. So, you know, we could have gone earlier and accepted the award, but I think we were all just wanted to get ready and like, plan, you know, for a good night. So.

Sure.

Yeah, it was, it was a great moment and yeah, and yeah, it was once in a lifetime feeling, I would say, for sure.

I mean, that's like, that's the epitome of like music. If you think about music success, like winning a Grammy is in my eyes, like the epitome of success in that.

World in some ways.

Yeah, for sure.

By some metrics.

When it comes to like your career of getting into software, I know that you launched some cool stuff this year.

Yeah.

How have you gone about testing different verticals when it comes to music and investing and launching software is like, where do you spend your time nowadays and what are you excited about?

I mean, my time shifts a fair bit. Obviously, like I said, going back to the sort of hub and spoken and wheel sort of metaphor, like the hub is really making music. But I probably only spend about 25% of my time now making music. A lot of it is like just business development, building relationships, looking at new opportunities that might be around and be available to me. Software was something that I've always wanted to do and I thought was something that I would be good at because I understand the needs of a producer and an engineer and. And I know what I want. And if. And if it's good enough for me, I feel like it would be good enough for. For other creators. And so I. That sort of got me along the path. There's a lot of learning along the way. But the other reason is, you know, as a creative, your job is not your Time is not scalable. So the only way to scale your business as a creative is to charge more. Right. Because there's still only 24 hours in the day. And most creators who are working at a high level, like if you ask anybody, we're all pretty much like busy all the time. And so you don't have the ability to create more hours in a day. So you have to find new ways to leverage that business. And I learned an early lesson from Duro actually about having multiple income streams. Like, you shouldn't just get into music and do one thing unless like that's the one thing you love and you're really good at it and you can't think of doing anything else. For me, I was always very entrepreneurial and I took that lesson and said I need to build multiple income streams. And so going into product was a way of, this is how I can influence the industry long past my, my due date, my expiry date as a creator. And we all know like pop music is general pop, hip hop, you know, contemporary music is generally run by the young people.

Totally.

And you know, I'm in my mid-30s and so at some point there's going to be a 22 year old who's going to like come around and just crush what I do. Like that. That's just part of growing up and part of life. And that's a good thing. I actually welcome it. And so my job is to now prepare for that day by creating other avenues and other income streams that can, you know, sort of, that can leverage what I do on music. And anytime I do that, I sort of ask myself two questions. Does the new business I'm working on or idea that I'm focused on, is it supported by what I do in music and vice versa, does it reverse support what I do in music? So by doing plugins, it puts, you know, it puts my name in a space that maybe not other engineer, not every engineer is. And that sort of shines a light on my creative career. But also what I've done in my creative career has allowed me to sort of like, you know, build relationships in the plugin world and sort of get a head start among, you know, from other software developers.

Totally. So with plugins, like if there's a producer or aspiring musician out there, what do they do to get access to it? Why did you decide to launch it this year? I know that when we spoke you launched three, is that correct?

Well, when I first spoke, I had one product out and. But over the course of this year in under a year, I've launched three software products and now we have like nine products on.

So with that is it, how are they different? And like, for the people that may not know what a plugin is, I'd love for you to go more in depth on what exactly that is.

Yeah, so a plugin is just like a piece of software that can change sound in any number of ways. And there's like thousands of different plugins and they all do a little something different. And some of them will change the EQ of a sound. Some might add distortion, some might add reverb or delay or anything like that to parallel the digital media world. If you work in Photoshop or Illustrator or something like that, there's third party plugins that are created to make an interesting effect or different types of brushes or things like that. No different. It's just a different shade of brushstroke for music, basically.

Got it.

And so, yeah, and I felt like I was qualified to build things like that because I use them every day. I've used every plugin in the world. So, yeah, that was sort of the reasoning of why.

Very cool. Yeah, I know that we, we spoke about a little bit, but this year it's been a different experience for someone that works in the music business. How has this year changed what you do and what have you learned from this past year in 2020?

You know what, I was actually very fortunate this year because most producers just live in their studio anyways. They're not really leaving the studio a whole lot. Like, we literally wake up and live in the studio. So. And my studio is fortunately in my house, so I didn't really have to leave in the. I was like, I was on quarantine last year. Yeah, you know, I guess it's a little different. You don't. You can't go out and do the networking and a lot of the events get shut down. And so a lot of those areas where you want to build relationships or create new ones have been removed. But I think it's also forced people to innovate in how they market themselves and how they sort of put themselves out to the world. You're seeing, like, what I've noticed this year is a ton of people have got onto Twitch, like Twitches. And not that Twitch is a new thing this year, but in the music space, specifically in the music space, I've seen a huge number of people sort of like congregate around the Twitch universe. And so that's a way to like bring people into your world. And. And create another revenue stream and another opportunity for people to maybe hire you later. So, yeah, I find that it's just been a lot of, like, unique ways of, you know, getting music out there and sharing it with people and. And experiencing it.

So what's your. What's your thoughts on. I. I saw. What was it like, Travis Scott did that live concert in Fortnite. Are you referring to, like, those type of things? Well, I mean, there's different installations and.

Yeah, like, I just. I just. The Lil Nas X single Holiday, and he launched it with, like, the first concert in Roblox.

Yep, I saw that.

And so I was on that and I got to see it. So, like, yeah, that's like a. I. A microcosm of a larger sort of thing.

How has that played out? Like, from. So that's in it. Like, is it a good thing for the artist and for the collaboration? Like, what's the. What is the back end?

I mean, I think it's. It's all a good thing. Any. Any sort of way of creating a new experience is always going to be like, I believe that technology and all, it's. It's supposed to move forward. We're not supposed to just stay in one place. And so if this is the way forward, then great. Obviously, for artists, a huge part of their business has been pulled away from them, which is boring. And so I would imagine for most artists that this has been a challenging year. And aside from just touring, like, then you have to ask yourself, do you want to put an album out this year? You know, how do we promote this album? Like, it's so much harder. Like, we can't go out on the road. We can't, you know, meet the fans. We can't do all the things we're used to doing. Does it make sense to spend a year working on a record that. That maybe we're going to put out and people are just going to forget about in a week because, you know, there's too many other more important things going on. And so for artists, I think there's a larger challenge that they've had to solve. And I think people have done it in really unique ways, like. Like the Fortnite concerts and things like that. I got lucky because as a producer, you're kind of just stuck in the studio. So everything I do, I can do from my.

My home, for sure. What do you think makes you different than other producers out there?

Well, interesting. Probably two things. One, I've worked. I work in all sorts of different genres and I'VE never really crossed off any one thing on my list of things to do. Like, I've never worked a. Done a country record. This year I did a country record for sure. Great. Aside from that, like, the business stuff, like, a lot of creators who I know, producers or engineers or mixers or whatnot, you know, they focus on their craft and, you know, I've focused on my craft for a long time and now the focus is like, what are the other things that I can do? So whether it's maybe education and, you know, some of the stuff that I do on YouTube, passing that along to the next generation of producers or, or making the plugins or investing in other music companies and music tech businesses, that to me is what excites me. So it's not just about making a beat anymore.

How often are you making beats nowadays? What does your workflow look like? I know you said you spend about 25% of your time there, but what does that look like when someone sends you the verse or whatever it is and you mix it? What is that process? Is it a quick process for you nowadays? I'm sure it's something that you're obviously a master at, but what does that look like?

Yeah, like mixing a song is sort of. Doesn't change if somebody sends me files and I'm mixing it, like I can turn a mix around in, in four hours or something. That and, and that largely doesn't change as far as like making tracks and writing. Now what I used to do is I would just grind every day, like making new tracks, writing new songs, doing new stuff every day. Now it's more when I have an idea or something that really speaks to me, that makes me want to create, then I will sit down and create something. And when I say create, I'm always creating, but creating for the sake of creation and not like for a specific project like where I'm not hired to do something. I'm just, you know, decide to write a song today that usually just requires some sort of inspiration. Like maybe I hear a loop in a pack that I'm just going through and like, oh, that, oh, I got a great idea for that. And then I'll just start working on it. Or I could be up at like 2 in the morning and can't sleep and just like I, oh, there's an idea for a song that I started like two weeks ago. Let me just go in and do that. So like last night I was up till three in the morning just changing the pre chorus of a song that I Did like a month ago and that was all I did on that song is I just changed pre chorus because I had a better idea and then I'll come back to it in another week and eventually it'll be so great. Yeah. But I find that that is works better for my creative process right now.

Sure.

Yeah.

When you're working with different artists, do you have any artist in mind that is I would not the best session. But some of the most interesting stories with when working with these high level artists, like how do they act differently, what makes them unique, how is their workflow? And as the producer, how. How do you manage different talent and different personalities?

You know, I go and talk with students a lot, like music students, and share with them information about my career. And one of the things I always try to impart is that your skill set is only half the battle really. The other half the battle is like knowing how to communicate with people and knowing how to fit in in a room. And especially for artists, like when you're in the studio, that's like a safe space, that's a sanctuary where they can be. They're free to do anything that they want. And so you have to know how to nurture that creative process and not get in the way of it. And you know, I grew up in, I was very lucky. I grew up in Toronto, which is a very multicultural city. My high school was a very multicultural high school. So I had like friends from every walk of life, you know, that listened to every genre of music. Like didn't matter. Like I had friends across like really a global friend group and that allows you to sort of like you become a chameleon. And I can fit in, in like a hardcore hip hop session and I can fit in with a young pop singer and I can, you know, fit in in a, in a EDM session with like some DJs and stuff. So I think it's just a matter of like knowing how to communicate and. Yeah. And just being open minded. You know, if you have a ton of interests, likely you're going to share some interests with some of the artists you work with and that gives you a sort of a platform to begin a relationship.

So how do you think the music business has changed since you've gotten started? I know with social media and how things have moved to where it is today, like how has it changed and where do you see it going?

That's a tough thing. I mean, I think music is just. Music is always going to be what it is. People are going to make music and the, the music is going to evolve. That's going to happen. I think the consumption of music. I've thought about this a lot. I don't know where it goes from here, right. We went from physical media to, you know, so vinyl to cassette to CD to downloadable owned media. And now everyone just streams. And so when you stream, you don't actually own anything. So I don't know where the consumption model can go other than, I mean right now for $10 a month or whatever it is, you can, you have every single song that's ever been created that doesn't have some sort of like, yeah. License that won't let it go on on the streaming platform. So I don't know, I don't know how else that evolves. But I do think there will be evolution in the concert experience. I think you're going to start to see a lot of VR and augmented reality sort of concert experiences. I think what we're seeing with the Fortnite, the in game concert Roblox, that's sort of like a baby step but like picture a world where you can put on your VR headset and it's in high definition and stereoscopic sound and you can go to a Beyonce show. But now the artist's creativity is like expanded by orders of magnitude because instead of Beyonce has to be on this stage with the dancers over here, the band over here and you know, they move around and they create a great stage show. Now, now you have, you can put her on the rings of Saturn and perform from there and like you can do literally anything you want. And I think those experiences are going to become more and more like real. And as that technology improves, I think that's going to open a whole new door of things. Beyond that, I don't know. I mean, you know, for sure that's, that's one area that I think we'll certainly, we'll see a ton of growth is in like concerts and live stuff for sure.

What is your, if you had to give any advice when it comes to networking and like you said you grew up in a place where you meet a lot of different people, different walks of life. Like if there's a young producer out there that's getting started today, what's your advice to them when it comes to networking, getting in the right rooms and setting yourself up for success in the music business?

There's a few things that I use usually will say the first thing is never say no when you're getting started and people will take advantage of you and but you know what? That's okay because you have to show value. And music is a field that a lot of people want to be in, and there just isn't enough room for everybody. And so you have to be more valuable than the next person. And so I always say, like, when you're getting started. I interned on unpaid for, like, years, a couple years unpaid in New York, which is tough. And I had to juggle an unpaid internship during the day and then engineering at night for, like, a little bit of money. And that's what got me started. But I would not change it because providing that service as an intern gave me my real education. Like, that gave me the true education. I went to school, of course, but that gets you so far. Once you're in a room where there's consequences and you could be fired or you could lose files and there's real consequences, you learn quicker. And so it's important to be in a room where nobody's spending any money on you, you're there for free, you're providing value. People are going to be a little more. You're going to have a little more leeway in what. When you make mistakes and things like that. And I think that's important. So, you know, don't say no to anything. Be. Try to be as valuable as you can. And then, you know, as you build those relationships, learn where you can, like, you know, okay, I need to start billing more for this, or I need to start, you know, setting some boundaries here. That's okay, and that's going to happen, and that's natural. But to start, you just want to, like, do everything you can, for sure.

When I think about an entrepreneur, like, and a musician, we have these achievements, for example, like winning an award or getting a plaque. There's these levels of achievement that bring the work to fruition. And I want to ask you, like, when you look around and you see the plaques that you've won or the awards, like, what do they mean to you deep down? And how. How do you continue to strive and move on to the next project or to think bigger? Because, you know, for a lot of people, they want that one award or that one plaque. And you've had so many awards, like, what keeps you motivated and what does the success and the plaques and the awards mean to you?

To be honest, they don't mean a whole lot. And the reason is because they've never actually materially changed my career in any way.

Yep.

Having a plaque didn't get me in a room with somebody. It didn't create a new opportunity. Maybe the Grammy thing does a little bit, but not in some sort of significant way. It's not like you wake up, you win a Grammy, wake up tomorrow, and all of a sudden got a thousand voicemails. Like, it doesn't really materially change anything. So it's nice recognition of just reinforcement that you're doing the right thing and you're on your way, on the right path. But I really don't think a whole lot about it. I mean, most of the plaques that you see here were just gifted to me.

Yeah.

So I. One. One of the misconceptions is, you know, you work on a platinum album, they just send you a plaque, you have to go and buy the plaque yourself.

Yeah.

And they're not cheap. So, yeah, for me, like, I think I may have only bought like one or two plaques in my life. Every plaque that you see was. Was gifted to me. And so it's nice, it's a thing, but it doesn't materially change anything. And, yeah, I don't really spend too much time. The focus is like, what's the. How can I grow? What's the next thing I can do? How can I learn a new skill that is going to allow me to do more in this arena or something over here that, like, it's sort of the knowledge and working towards, like, the next goal that's sort of what pushes me is like always just setting another goal that's 10 paces behind the next one, 10 paces behind that, and like, achievable ones. And if you do that and you start, like, hitting goals every year, I just find that you. You have, like, enough fuel to, like, keep moving forward.

Love that. Last question before we wrap up. What are you excited about moving into the new year and what are you currently working on that you want to tell the people about?

What am I most excited about? Well, hopefully COVID vaccine, so we can get back to sort of regular scheduled programming. As far as next year, you know, the focus for me is kind of going to be largely similar to what it was this year with probably a little more emphasis on what I'm doing on the social media side with YouTube or if I dive into the twitch side of things, there will be more products on the software side of things, of course, always going to continue to work on music. And so long as I keep getting called, I'll keep doing that. So I think next year is going to be hopefully a lot of getting back to normal is the hope, you know, being able to travel a little more and go take the meetings that I couldn't take this year and. And just getting back to a sense of normalcy. I think that's my hope for next year. I don't know.

Love that.

Yeah.

All right, well, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today. Swivel, where's the best place for everyone to follow you?

You can follow me. Dj swivel.com. it's @dj swivel on Instagram, Twitter, wherever you want to find me. I'm not hard to find.

Cool. Well, everyone, thank you so much for tuning into the show. Swivel, thanks so much for coming on.

Appreciate it. Monarch Legacy of Monsters An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me, the most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

Oh, my God.

Go, go, go. Legacy of Monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV.