Eisa EMAMI - Successful Stock Trader Turned Professional Pilot and Drummer

All right, welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Issa Amami, a new friend of mine, and I'm very excited to have you on the show today. Issa.

Hi. How you doing?

Doing great, man. Thanks so much for being here.

I'm excited to be here, man.

So you, you came in from Calgary, is that right?

Calgary, Alberta? Yeah.

Got it. And you're here in Los Angeles. Appreciate you being here. You know, we got connected through a mutual friend. And when I first met you, right away I just saw, like, okay, this guy is someone that's transparent, authentic, gets to the point, and instantly just vibe with you from one entrepreneur to another. And, you know, I remember seeing the video that Brendan and you guys created probably over a year ago, and hearing your story gave me the chills at one point. And we'll dive deep into it today. But for those that may not know your story, you're an incredible stock trader. You come from very, very humble beginnings. You've dealt with a lot of hardships in your life. Where do you spend your time today? Just before we dive into all things that you do?

Where do I spend my time?

Yeah, where do you spend your time today? What are your day to day look like?

My day to day right now is probably as relaxed as it gets, man. It's a lot of it is spent doing what I love. And I, and I always speak about this like you, you kind of don't want to ever retire from anything. You kind of just want to always be. Be active in the things that you're passionate about. Right. And for me, that's been flying, playing airplanes, playing as a drummer or pro drummer around the world, when I get opportunities, go and do that.

Y.

And then, you know, side by side of training, like, I don't really trade full time anymore because as you get bigger, you know, bigger places, bigger capital, bigger investments, you know, diversification makes sense and you want to start, you know, more so hedging your bets against the money you've got. So I like to spend more of my time just passing what I've done onto other people. And I, you know, I never preach it as this is what you have to do, but this is what I do. And if you want, listen and maybe it'll help you as well.

That's great.

Yeah.

When it comes to flying. So how often are you flying now?

It depends. It really depends on how much I want to fly right now. As it stands, I fly as a Captain on a 737 Max up in Calgary, Alberta. Yeah. It's exciting. Yeah.

So what's the 737 Max for those that may not.

Yeah, so I mean that was the one that the scandal, remember the Boeing got shut down. Yeah, yeah, that's the one I'm on right now. Wow. The issue's been fixed. Whoever needs to listen, it's. It's been fixed. Yeah, but yeah, so yeah, it's 189 passenger configuration flying all across North America and we have appetite to go into Mexico soon. I think Hawaii soon as well, a little bit of Europe. So yeah, it's got a good range to it. It ticks the box for being in a disciplined environment but also, you know, having the chance to also be part of leadership while learning and helping other people grow as well. Like it's a weird thing, right? Because everybody in that role in flying is also looking to grow into respective promotions as well. So there's a growth aspect to that day to day.

Wow. So commercial plane. So how long have you been doing that now?

Well, dude, I started flying when I was 15, side by side of high school. So what am I at 33 now? So 18 years.

I, I love all things aviation. One of my good friends, best friends, he has a YouTube channel called JR Garage and they made a spin off of it called JR Aviation. And pretty much when I first met Jeff, I was 16, he was 17. He bought his first Lamborghini when he was in high school. Completely self made. And he's just been flipping cars over the past 10, 15 years since he was like 8 years old. And then they eventually flipped up into a plane, they got a Cessna or Bonanza. I don't want to misspeak now. They've been doing this a little bit and they're in the process of getting their license. And my buddy Owen, he's one of the youngest, I think he was the youngest Gulf Stream pilot in the world at one point and he, we flew on one of their planes from here to Arizona. And you know, he's telling me everything about the cockpit and everything and just all things aviation are so interesting to me. So I totally get why, you know, you fell in love at 15 and went all into the commercial level.

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was actually, you know what, man? I fell in love with it when I was way younger too. I was four and a half, five years old.

Wow.

I knew I wanted to do it right.

It was like that. It's actually crazy. So that I haven't really met too many people that are at 4, 4 years old, 5 years old, I saw something I want to do that I did it. That's very rare.

Well, the irony is, at four and a half, five, I didn't know that I want a lot of money in my life, but I knew I wanted to fly airplanes and play drums. Those. Those. Those two things were really important to me. I don't know, it's passion, just something about it. So, yeah, I guess I'm a bit of a kid at heart still. Yeah, I'm doing it. Yeah. Kind of cool.

That's very cool. So, drumming. Talk to me about the drumming in your life. I know you were just recently on a tour, you said.

Yep.

Where did that passion stem from? Were your parents musical? Did they grow up playing instruments? Or how did this come into your life?

Yeah, good question. I know we had no musicians, really, that I know of in our family. So my mom, when we. We first went to Sweden, she was looking to find a way for me to sort of, you know, how do I word this? Learn skills that Western kids have. Right. Because we immigrated as Persian Turkish people into Sweden for the, you know, for the first time in my life, obviously in their lives. So they wanted me to sort of step away into a developed way of being. And. And her position was go and learn the keyboard. So she forced me to go and learn piano and keyboards, which I still play, but unofficially. But I found that there was something about when I was picking up the rhythm and playing keyboards and piano and that I was more interested in just the discipline of staying on beat, discipline on having a rhythm to how you play music. So I transitioned to pots and, like, plates or whatever they say. Right. And, yeah, and then I just. I had a passion for just playing drums or just, you know, grabbing pens and going nuts on pots and pans. And that transitioned to my first mini little kit at six years old. It was like a little plastic kid. You get Toys R Us just jamming out to music. And, yeah, here we are today. I mean, the story of how I got here with music, too, is also a little bit interesting, but, yeah, but, yeah, it's all sort of interconnected, for sure.

So that the music side was that always consistent in your life from, you know, gaining success, stock trading and, you know, coming, moving to Canada? Was drum or drum. Was drumming always a part of that journey? Or did you ever take time off or how did. How did it build up to the point when now you're doing tours with people and, you know, a part of things that are obviously on the road and they need you and you're part of this team.

Yeah. A lot of was right place, right time. I. I think there was. I. I don't even think there was definitely an element of luck, I think, of being. Being in the right place. Because what was. Is I started flying at 15, and then when I came into fully being licensed at 18 years of age, side by side of high school, being graduated, nobody was hiring. Okay, so it's a 2008 financial crisis, right?

And you're going in. You're leaving high school today.

Yeah, so I'm done at 18. Right. So the 2008 financial crisis, nobody's hiring pilots, the industry down, everything slowed down. Right. But ironically, what seems to happen is when people aren't busy making money or busy working, they have time for entertainment and going to pubs and watching bands and, you know, you know how that goes, right? Like, that site always, you know, spikes up. So the time I was living in Vancouver, Canada, and I got super fortunate was a Craigslist ad. Okay, go from this. A craigslist ad was looking to audition a drummer for a opening act for a major singer. So we were gonna be an opening band for a major singer, which I didn't know who it was at the time, right? So I go and. Yeah, so I go and show up thinking, I'm totally gonna bomb this, right? Like, what are the odds I'm gonna get the part? And it was so organic when I showed up. The guys, the name of the band was Kilmer Place, that the guys were so just relaxed, you know, chill. They let me be in my element. They kind of give me some pointers on, hey, want you to play this part this way. That part that way picked up right away, and I became the drummer. And then in 2009, we went on to. Yeah, we went on to be one of the opening acts for Headley's tour at the Drenched Fest Oh9 festival in Calgary, Alberta. And we were the opening band for that. So. Wow, that's. So then, right place, right time, right networks, right connections.

Yeah.

That led to the next and the next thing. And then today, I guess we're talking about touring and doing that when I get time and when I make time for it as well.

That is so cool. When that happened, like, what were some of the. The goals with that? Right? Like, we. When you think about your career as a musician, right? Is it. Okay, let's do this tour, World tour, small, small band. Like, what were you and the group thinking in terms of just the future of it? I think it's always so Interesting. Especially from the music side. I've been. I've had some musicians on the show and some people are just like, yeah, I'm just playing my music. And then one day, boom, this big moment happened. Or some people are like, hey, I want to be the biggest in the world. What was it for you guys in terms of the ambitions for that as a group?

You know, I think the, the biggest thing for us was we wanted to speak the truth to what people were feeling at the time and expressing that through music.

Right. And this was 2009.

2009. So people have been decimated.

Right.

And you don't. I mean, not that you need to sing about financial crises, but what it is, is you're speaking to the emotions, the feelings, the, you know, the, the. The family causations that come from it. Divorces, breakups, you know, heartbreak, et cetera. Right. So. So we were pulling from a lot of inspiration from people around us, and it was just naturally coming into powerful music that was just getting attention and getting attention, moving up and moving up and, you know, it's. It's funny as we get into our chat more, you'll. You'll probably find this out too, is I had a fork in the road with music and flying. That came up shortly after we started getting buzz in Vancouver because if you were. If you dropped our band name in Vancouver, people knew who we were. So it show up to our shows because it was kind of a beginning for us. And. Yeah. And then when I got the chance to go flying, which happened in basically second quarter of 2009, I. I basically had a choice of fear or faith in my life. Do I just lead into the bad thing that who knows if it's going to be the next thing for me or they're going to the safe and secure thing, which was aviation. And that's where I leaned. Which eventually brought about the stock trading in my life because I learned some of the best lessons around trying to make safe decisions.

Interesting. It's so interesting to hear you end on that point about safe decisions. And I'm curious, what does that mean as someone that got into stock trading pilot who has to be the safest. That is the safest profession in the world, at least how I view it. In terms of. You are literally handling lives. Flying an object 30,000ft in the air. How does that correlate to the stock market and the thinking? I think that's a great topic to dive into.

Yeah, I think it's. I'm going to try to. I think the Right answer will come about in a roundabout way. So safety, to me, okay. And a lot of times is ensuring that you're not bound by limitations that you're not aware of. So what I mean by that is you can train anything or anyone in a finite controlled environment and call that safe.

Right.

This is safe. But put them outside of that environment, put them inside of that box that they're used to, and they are in a very uncomfortable environment and they might perceive that it's not safe even though it's still very safe. Right. So one of the things that I've always been a very interested individual in is that like, you know, where truly does the limitation lie? If you keep expanding knowledge and experience and the thing that you do, and if you keep getting more knowledgeable and understand as to the hows and the wise things work the way they do, then effectively where the boundaries of safety exists are going to be expanded. Like. Like an elastic.

Yeah.

Right now there is. I called an elastic. Because you can't exactly. You can't also disrespect the fact that there is a very real aspect to the decisions you make where reality can also, you know, for lack of better terms, flounder if you don't make the right move. So it's, it's, it's a weird answer, I know, but I hope it's starting to sort of open up an interesting topic on.

Very much so, yeah. So to pivot a little bit, but stock trading, growing up, I think we could all say you're aware of stock market, especially in the world of business. Entrepreneurship for you, what was it that led you to wanting to a. Learn the stock market? Of course, being able to make money. But who were some. Did you have influential figures in your life that said, hey, go learn the stock market, or were you just attracted to it through just studying and diving in yourself? Or how did that interest peak and what led you to really diving deep and pursuing it as a not only career, but a way to make money and provide for yourself.

Yeah. So it's a little bit of a flashback and I'll bring it forward to how I got there. Right. So I lost my father our second week immigrating to Canada. So. So 13. Yeah. So 13 years old. I got to see what, you know, what it looks like when a breadwinner passes away and, you know, the struggles that my mother not to go effectively go through to make it right. So when I said with the music thing, I made a decision out of safety to go down a safe and you Know, predictable career as opposed to pursuing, you know, the thing I really, really was loving and driving with. Right. I love aviation, but you pull us a little. Yeah, sorry, I'll pull this closer.

Yeah.

So but with, with aviation, what it was, man, is I went into it and as much as I love the day to day of it, flying airplanes, there was this toxic corporate mantra like a, like a old man's club almost that if you're not a part of that, good luck, like, and it doesn't matter how good you are, it doesn't matter. You could be one of the best guys in the industry.

I'm curious, you're saying, like, pilots at the highest level, it's very closed off. Ish.

Correct. In a sense, it's a very, it's. Yeah, it's a club, for lack of better terms. Right. If you're in the club, you will get advances in this career and you will get to the highest of levels in this career.

And real quick, just to learn more about that, what does that mean in aviation is that longer routes, more consistent routes, different airlines.

I think what it means, the best, the best, the best career spots are usually, I'm not going to say always, but most times than not, it is off the back of who you know and, and sort of what relationships you have. Right. Networking. And I will never say that's a bad thing, but that is very much what the industry is now. Alongside that, what the industry also is, is it's heavily bred by fear. Right. Like they train pilots to effectively fear their own shadows. I'll give you an example what I mean by that. When we make a decision, right. In our training, we're trained to question the very decision that we just made to make sure we have the best decision in 30 seconds from now. Right. So it creates a constant mindset of skepticism. Now imagine operating in that space and trying to be in an expansive mindset where you're trying to do things maybe a little bit better or introduce newer ideas that might be a little bit more, you know, a bit of a change to how things used to be. You weren't a lot of resistance, right?

Absolutely.

And, and I started seeing that for my personality style. As much as I love flying, I love the disciplines and I love a lot of the old rules of why things are the way they are with flying. Growth for me, and the way that I was outspoken about a lot of things and didn't hold back, it may have meant that I might not get to the best safe career spot in my, in my flying Career, which would mean income issues probably not being always in the best spots. And still, even if you get to the best spot in aviation, somebody still owns you.

Yeah.

So to me, that was, that was enough to like, you know what I experienced the financial setback in my teenage years. I don't want that. And I looked to where the wealthiest hang out and with absolute consistency, it always came back to stock market. It doesn't matter. Real estate, they're always still vested in the markets.

Yeah.

So that's, that's what brought me into the stock market.

Got it. Absolutely. So what was the, the first step to pursuing that in terms of like, you're seeing where, you know, these wealthy people are hanging out. You want to get out of aviation, what does that mean for you in your journey? How old were you when you said, okay, I want to go learn this and I want to go commit to this. And what were some of the early beginnings of that in terms of, you know, investing your own money? What was the strategy? What were you investing in and how did that change over time?

Yeah. So, you know, everything you hear is long term holds, long term holds, buy and you know, you know, compound, invest. Basically interest rates over and over years is going to make you rich. Right. So me thinking that that's the right way to go about it is I looked at the interest rates at the time, this is around 20 years old. So we're looking 2010, 2011. Right. So looked at the interest rates, I'm like, okay, a line of credit will cost me X amount. And it was less than what the average rate of return to market was, especially out of the 2008 financial crisis. So, yeah, why don't I just, you know, take a line of credit out from the bank because I have no money.

Right.

I'm starting out and I'm just gonna put into long term holds. And I did that. And you know, there was some success to it, but not life changing money like the, the money was gonna compound over 30, 40 years.

Right.

Which is a, to me is a really long Runway to find out if you're gonna make it. And probably if you think, if you go back and look at 2011, 12 was sort of around the same time where instant gratification was also very much on the rise as we See now in 2023 as you and I talk. And this is now the thing, right. So there was probably an element of that where I'm like, you know what? This isn't good enough. Right. And I, and I want to, and I want to have fast results. So then I said, you know what, let's put the long term holds aside and I'm going to go and trade. And was trading. I was naively of the belief that if I just draw some lines on charts and just, you know, what you, what you read in books, right? Yeah, literally, like, you know, if you, if you read most of these trade Trading for Dummies books, that's what it is. Draw lines, patterns this, patterns that. I thought that that was going to be my pathway to being rich. And it was naive. And I found out later on as I almost blew through most of my credit line that that was not the way this is going to work. Yeah. So that's how we got started.

Wow.

Yeah.

So what was how long. I should say, how long was it for you before you really experienced that first win trading? And because you knew obviously you still always have ups and downs as an experienced trader. I'm sure. But for you, when was that moment? And maybe it wasn't a moment, but was there anything that you can reflect on and think, wow, it was that time that I had this, this win that gave me the confidence that I was moving in the right direction or how did that look in your life?

Yeah, no, it's. It's a really good question. So what it was, is it. It was in the beginning when I started. I got really lucky. Right. So like I, I put my money in. This is 2012, roughly.

Yeah.

So it was effortless. And, and the patterns, they worked.

Everyone's a genius in the lines. Right?

Right. And the lines worked. So, so I, I followed the lines for lack of better terms. And then, then I got decimated thereafter. And I, and you know, it was, yeah, it was in the decimation where I was like, what happened? And then you started doubting yourself. Was it luck? Was it. This is the standard rhetoric that most people go through when they dabble, not knowing what they're doing.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's incredible. So as you're learning this trade, I remember you saying like four or five years, you're. And it's. Throughout that process, were you still flying or was that completely shut off?

No, no, I was flying. So this is. Yeah. So you got to look at this. The good with flying is you could pick pm, AM schedules usually. Right. So I would try to pick, you know, the PM schedules so I could wake up in the morning and trade trade. Right.

Feel cool.

I don't know what it was.

Right.

And it was naive. I will still call naive. And we'll get into why later on, I'm sure. But yeah, I would try to pick the PM routes so I could work, you know, show up to work around 4:00pm, 5:00pm Eastern equivalent.

Yeah.

And have had all this time to, you know, make my own fortune, I guess before that. Yeah.

Why was that naive? It sounds a good idea. You fly at night, you're chilling all day. Right.

Yeah, I think, I think where it's naive is the concept to think that I, that I had actually believed that, you know, some indicators or drawing lines, for lack of better terms, you know, color, color painting charts was, was a secret to success. And, and it was until later on where I learned, you know, when I understood that I'm being naive and I have to actually learn how this works, where I started seeing it for what it is and, and seeing why, you know, 90, 95%, that's the stat. Right. Why people get wiped out. And understanding getting obsessed about that and learning the behind the scenes more, which is what led to the success.

Got it.

Yeah.

What? So for people that are just, let's say, getting in the market today, what, what is that? Right. When you say getting understanding behind the scenes and really getting a grasp on the market, like what are some key tips that you could reference from the knowledge you've gained over the years of being a trader that you would want to. Of course, isn't it. This isn't financial advice.

Yeah.

When it comes to just your personal experience, what have you learned throughout these years that you believe have given you an edge that have actually made you confident as an investor?

Yeah. I'll start with a very philosophical thing and we'll dive into more details. So what I want, what I want everyone to understand is that if 90%, which is the stat of people consistently blow their account when they self direct money, there's a beautiful consistency in that, isn't there? So there is a consistency in why that is. So if just on a philosophical level, we can just speak, if you get obsessed about why that is, you're in the winning side.

Right.

So don't say the market's rigged. Like don't actually put that into your mindset and believe it and lock it down. Understand why the market moves the way it does. Right. So if the why is answered, thereby comes the success. So that's the first thing I'll say is have the courage to actually ask that question and go after it. The second thing is you need to understand like who owns the stock market? And it comes down to institutions. These are what they're called market makers. Right. So these market makers, they own inventory of stock. Right. And when you own an inventory of stock, you effectively control what happens to the price of that because you can create emotions and people think about the absolute basics of money. People will run for anything money related. Right. They will hustle for, for money. Right. So if, if we can create an emotion in you to make you think that you're going to make money, then you're going to put your money in at the absolute wrong time. And then as the market maker, I've got an order flow ready right behind that to take you out and move on without you. Right. So to the upside or downside, honestly. Right. So, so you got to get really, really good at understanding market makers. Why they do what they do, how they think and what risks and liabilities they incur. By owning my owning stock as well.

Yeah.

And then once you get good at that and you understand how that works, it really comes down to, I mean, my favorite personally is I love getting into SEC legal filings right now. This isn't exciting by any means, but I think making money at a high level, at any level, you need to be good at the details. Right? So, so the SEC filings, these are required filings by public companies. They have to disclose what they're up to. And you'd be surprised that most of the, you know, money activity that people, you know, they put their money into these stocks that are just the penny stocks, 5, 10, $15 stocks with the hopes of it being worth 4 or 500 bucks a share one day. The amount of honest, you know, absolute truth that these companies put out, that this company likely is going to fail is next level. But it goes blindsided because nobody wants to read it. Yeah, exactly. Nobody wants to do unpopular work.

Right.

And the last piece of advice, I mean, there's like, I'll give you a ton of advice, but we don't have so much time today. But is, I never marry an idea anymore. I used to think, oh, this is, this is going to be the next thing. Like, I mean, this. Look at the time we're in 2023. I'm sure people are probably talking a lot of lithium batteries. That's a big thing, right? They're playing those plays. AI related things. Right. But Nvidia, Nvidia, there you go. I don't care. I don't care what the fat is. What I care about is how the money flows and ebbs and flows. I should say in response to what people think, the next fat is that's where the money is made. It's not in buying something at five and scoring it at 500 bucks a share. Yeah, that's not where the money is.

Yeah, very cool. I mean, we could dive into that.

Yeah, we could get into.

Yeah, I want to. Because you said something that I want to reference, because I. I haven't dealt with this, and I think, you know, people can learn from it. You. You talked about. When I first watched that video that I referenced at the beginning, you talked about losing your father when you were 13. And I know you brought it up as well. How did that affect you? You know, being 13, I can't even imagine dealing with that. And quite frankly, you know, I'm. My parents are young. They're in their mid-50s, relatively. Right. Young. That's something that I just can't. It's hard to really comprehend. And people that have lost their parents, I know it's inevitable. I always learn personally through that experience. So, however, in depth you want to go. But I'm just so curious to know how that impacted you. Being 13, you're stepping into this role as a man, and, you know, you're really having to grow up quickly as a young man. So, like, take us back to that time in your life and that affected you.

Yeah. Mass confusion. Let's start with that. I think, you know, obviously, I think in my case, at least, my father was the closest person to my life, you know, so when you. When you think of a rock that you lean on, right. That was him for me. Right. So to lose that, it kind of shocked me to the effect of, how is this even possible? Like, how can such a thing be at such a young age? Because I was conscious enough to know that this is really early. Like, this shouldn't have happened because he was only 44, too. So on top of that.

Right?

So that was the first thing. The second thing that happened and affected, I think, me was as. As you would expect any teenager or probably any human being is with pain. My immediate response was escape. I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to go through that pain. Right. And. And the problem with that, and that's something that, you know, finally now, at this point in my life I'm working on is, for me, my. My escape became like, just eating food like crazy, man. Like, that was my escape. Right. For some kids, it might be alcohol, might be something else. Right. And so. So what ended up happening is I ended up getting extremely unhealthy as a result of that. Right. Because I wasn't willing to deal with the pain. Stubbornly don't want to accept the fact that it's really happened. Right. So what ended up happening, though, is when I started seeing the fact that, okay, putting effort into my music career and. And flying career led to such fast successes, there was almost like. I don't even know where this was communicated to me. Was it intrinsically? Was it. I don't know what it was, but it's like, hey, you said, like, if you. If you put effort into what you do in life, you might actually have a shot at this, regardless of your dad not being around.

Right.

And not showing you the ropes. Right. So, yeah, it opened up a completely different relationship with life and learning to believe that things maybe do happen for a reason. And the reasons are actually ironically masked as gifts to get you to hustle and get going and achieve your triumphs in life, you know, So I will always look at my father's passing as the catalyst as to where I'm sitting today.

Wow.

In this position, so young and so early in my life right now. I also think age might be a, you know, maybe a controversial topic. I've already got whites at 33, so maybe I age faster than other ways. I don't know. But. But you know what, man? I've. I'm here today. And if it wasn't that inspiration of, wow, this is how quickly something can happen and, you know, flip upside down your life, I probably wouldn't have had this much inspiration and drive.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You sharing that.

Yeah. So that's how it impacted me.

Absolutely. No, it's. I think what you said about, like, masking this, the hardship, or, you know, dealing with something is this sort of fuel that you'll learn later in life. It's. I think I told you this when we first connected, but When I was 16, I was almost paralyzed playing football. I was in a neck brace for six months. Just. It was one of those times where, you know, one day I wake up, young kid, naive, just. The world is yours. You'll play football.

Yeah.

To then never play football again in your life, you have to be in this neck break for six months. Identity's ripped away from you. And that could be, you know, from a sense of parents as well, and your whole world flips upside down. And for me, more of a, you know, neck injury and just not being able to do things looking back. And I still. And I brought this up to a friend recently. I'm like, if that didn't happen, I really have no clue what I would be doing or why I would be doing it. And, you know, now that I can lean into this story so strongly of, like, the pivoting point in my life or when I found drive and I was able to find, like, really dig deep, it's crazy how those moments happen in life. And over the course of the six years I've had this podcast, right? Four or five hundred interviews, you find that over and over and over again to the point where I'm like, you know, everyone reflects on these times. But on the flip side, so many people are afraid of those times, of, you know, going through something so painful. And of course it sucks in the moment. But then on the flip side, I interviewed this guy, Jesse Israel, and he says, you know, it's hard to talk about your wounds when you haven't healed from them, right, from neck brace passing. But then when you do, those are the most incredible stories, right? And it's, you know, it's very cliche to say that, but it's so real and so true. And outside of that moment in your life, like, are there any other maybe we can sort of pivot to, like, the business conversations, like business triumphs that you've had to overcome that have really made you the man you are today that you can reflect on and say, hey, like, this is a Business 101 lesson that I learned the hard way that I would want someone to not, you know, go through if I had to give them a piece of advice.

Well, listen, dude, I think you got to understand when you come into the space that I've come into, because, I mean, the space that I'm in effectively on a business side mainly is teaching what I've learned, the markets, right? So you're dealing with nothing but skepticism all the time, right? So you're paid as the business owner is how do I prove to people that I'm here to help first and business second? This is the hardest thing to do because what ends up happening is you end up, you know, you end up almost attracting mindsets that are looking for a handout in life. And I know so much that life ain't about handouts, because if there was a handout, I was waiting for one, I guess, right? I mean, Right, But. But the triumph ain't in the handout. The triumph is actually in facing that pain and going through the pain and getting to the other side. So the business sort of lesson 101 I've got with this is like the number one way to break any sort of Skepticism, gain trust of a consumer base that, you know, in the case of a stock market is always looking for skepticism. Like my pilot friends, you know, the industry I'm used to. Right. Is you have to be willing as a business owner to not be chasing money.

Right.

Like if money's the reason you're in it, you're gonna find everything becomes a trade with everyone. Right. And what I started focusing on with my approach, with teaching what I've done in the stock market and helping people see the market for what it is, is lead with nothing but absolute value. That's going to help them up front. Zero commitment. My whole thing to people is, you know what? You've got zero commitment to me to give me anything beyond two seconds of attention. Right? Yeah. But if you give me a minute, I'll help you see something just a little bit better. And that's going to start a new journey for you if you fall into it and go into it full on.

Right. Yeah.

So leading with that value, if you approach your business, whatever that is, with that, with that mindset and understand that people are always self motivated, help them with their motivations and they will want to be around you and take advice from you and hopefully get help from you. And if you have the solution for the specific problem they've got, then off you go. You can. It's a perfect match. They already trust you because they know that you've got what it is. And if I can just expand for a minute on this one thing. You know, one of the things, like in my, in my program, we help people learn the stock market. One of the things we lead with is we say, listen, you can't even buy anything. There's nothing for you to buy. You have about 15 hours of free material that you have to get through. You have to get through it because you need to see that you can do this.

Yeah.

Let put aside all the claims out there of what's possible. Let's just forget about that for a second. Can you see what Issa sees? Right. Can you learn that? Because if you can see it, then you now have the belief that this is something viable they can go after. Right. And we do it intentionally, for free. Because I want you to see that there is a path in front of you here. If you are willing to put in the work where most people do, they do something different. They charge you up front.

Right.

Then let's figure out if you're interested in those. Right.

So I love that.

I don't know. Hopefully that makes sense. It answers Your question?

I think it's spot on. Right. It's like leading with not only the value, but you have to get someone to a place where they understand it to then make it even worth that investment to them. Yeah, right. And it's so interesting when I think about the word skepticism. I think it's such a double edged sword in this world where I look at a lot of my early successes and just sort of what got me out of this small town thinking, coming from a small town in Virginia, you know, I didn't fly in a plane until I was 16 years old and I bought the plane ticket myself. And it was my curiosity and the ability to sort of not fall into the skepticism of like how it won't work.

Right.

But leaning all in on, but what if it does? And I think of course that can bite you and they can. Things can go wrong in all aspects of business. But when I was, when I reflect on my journey, 15, 16, you know, it's the, the unknown that is so exciting. Which, you know, I always talk about this idea of leaning into your curiosity. And when I interviewed Larry King, that was one of the, just the lessons that he tried to instill it throughout his entire life is just remain curious in every conversation. Right. He talks about this idea of being a listener and he says I've never learned anything while I was talking. And I think some of the early days when I was sitting in my bedroom on my neck brace just looking at my phone falling into these different rabbit holes on YouTube, it was that curiosity that I could have been a skeptic. Oh, young kid, naive. Oh, like no, I'm not going to click on that ad. No, I'm not going to pick up, buy a book that this guy tells me to do. Why would I do that? Like, and it's, those are the people that actually are just digging themselves a hole. And to be able to see it from the other side, you might, you know, you have to fail forward.

Yeah.

And of course hoping that, you know, you're putting yourself in a position to be around great people and people that have good intentions and you know, it's up to you to decide that. But I love how you said that because I think it's so easy to be skeptic. But actually putting in the work and learning first about anything, opportunities or a new trade, whatever it may be, is, is what you must focus on first.

I'll tell you, man, uncertainty for me, my life first. Sorry, my life personally, uncertainty has brought me more peace and gratitude than chasing any Path of certainty. I'm telling you, this, this is like, it's, it's a weird oxymoron when you think about it, because you'd think that again, we go back to that safety thing, that the right thing to do is the safe thing. Right. But the safety is only a figment of your illusion and what you think is possible.

Yeah.

So skepticism is in that thing because it's only what you think is possible ain't what reality is, it's just what you think is possible.

Right.

So it's, it's kind of a challenge, I think, in a way to, to have the guts to go onto an uncertain path. And ironically, any of the business moguls and networks I have in my life today, you talk to any one of them who's made it and they're seriously made and they're way more successful than I am because of the way that they've developed.

Right. Yeah.

It's always two paths of uncertainty. Never was it a certain path. Yeah, it's happening.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

There's a. I won't know the exact, I won't say the exact quote because I'll butcher it. But Alex Ramosi, he puts out a couple tweets recently and he's. And he talked about uncertainty. He's like, the whole reason you're able to do what you have done is by chasing that uncertain path. If you were to know exactly how things played out, you wouldn't do it. Correct. And you know, he talks about like, if someone was to really give you sort of the pill of this is how you're going to feel and what you, what you're going to deal with by going down this path. Not at 10 times, you wouldn't do it. Yeah. It's that uncertainty that allows you to be so naive to believe it's possible. And that goes from, you know, I remember talking with Mark Randolph, the founder of Netflix, and you know, they're putting DVDs, you pick them up at the box and just thinking that this behemoth Blockbuster could have bought them for $50 million and you know, they're like, this is never going to work. And what do you mean? We have the biggest conglomerate of DVDs. You come in here, biggest in the world. It's that naive focus as an early stage founder that just gives you the edge.

Yeah.

Because you don't know what's going to happen, but you have so much self belief that you're pursuing it with that uncertainty in mind, which is a beautiful thing.

100%. Yeah. That's it. That's it. So in an ironic way, then, to sort of riff off that for a sec, like the sort of naive approach of I'm going to be rich. The stock market was what I went into regardless of not knowing what I was doing in the beginning. Right. I just think that where most people quit because they form a alternate belief when they lose money thinking that, oh, this is a raid, so I'm not gonna ever be able to make it through this, that's where I was like, no, there's something here. There's something here. I just need to learn what that is. And that's on me. And that's not on any handout anything. It's just me and my obsession to figure this out.

Yeah, I love that. When it comes to obsession, I love that word. You know, when you were first learning flying stock trading, what were your hours? Meaning? You know, I'm someone that, you know, I take my health seriously. I try to stay on top of it, get good sleep. Of course, there's times where you gotta pull on nighters, of course. But I'm of the belief of if I can't operate at 100%, I'm just doing myself a disservice. But what were your sort of obsessed mentalities as someone that was learning new skills to developing quickly, Ambitious, Because I think we can all learn from our own individual sort of obsession in how we do things and how we pursue things, versus, you know, when I. Just for context as well, before I want to hear your perspective, is when I first started my podcast, I was so obsessed with doing 60 interviews in 90 days. I've never done that again since that initial ramp up. But I did 60 interviews, mainly online in 90 days because I had this big meeting with this guy, Gary Vaynerchuk, back in 2018, and I kind of set that as a goal and I just pursued it. And I was obsessed. I would get home from school, do four or five interviews back to back that I scheduled on Instagram, and that was sort of like an early obsessive characteristic of why I fell in love with podcasting.

Right.

By no means do I have that same approach now, but for you, what did that look like in your life early on?

Okay, so let's just go Back to like 15 when I was in high school. Right? So. So my days would consist of, you know, go to school, and sometimes, you know, thanks, Mom. Skip school, because I knew I wanted to fly.

Right.

Okay, so, but if we look at a typical, you know, I go to school 8 to 2:30, 3 o' clock and then I'm on that, like I'm darting out of school and I'm on the first bus, two hour commute to the municipal airport, which is south of commute. Two hour commute.

Gosh.

Three different buses. Once we have a C bus in Vancouver.

Wow.

So from north Vancouver, which is where I was right, which is northern part of Vancouver, all the way down to Delta with Boundary Bay Airport, southern part of the Vancouver, about two, two and a half hours. Sometimes I get to the airport by like five, 5:30. And most of the time just in time for me to get an hour lesson in before nighttime hits. Because when I wasn't licensed as a pilot, I could only fly at daytime. That was the first restriction. Is daytime a good weather, Right? Yeah, but it was such a routine where I would do that. I would get to the airport by 5, 5:30, do what we call a pre flight inspection, walk around a weight and balance and all that stuff, fuel checks and off we go. We'd be back by like 6:40, 7 o'. Clock. And most of my pilot friends watching this or peers know that usually ground school, which is a theory, classes starts in the evenings in Most flight schools. 7pm to 9pm So I will go 7pm to 9pm, two hour commute back.

And you're, you're in high school, you're 15.

High school 15. And you know, 11 o' clock, I'm back 11 to, to one try to fit in some high school studies. You know, like I was gonna say.

Where do you do your stuff?

One to 6:37. Sleep, eat horribly. I'm telling you, I did not. Prior good for you for prioritizing health because I did not. I really did not. It wasn't until about maybe two, three years ago where I really started having a different respect for why it's important to prioritize health. And that's because I also discovered that, you know, I'd been hiding from some pain still from the past. Right. So now I'm, I'm sorting that out. But the point is, yeah, that was my routine day in, day out for three years straight. So totally 18 years old, summer, three years straight. Yeah.

Getting home from school, four hours commuting after school.

Yeah. It was so obsession. You talk about obsession, right?

That is an incredible answer.

Right? Yeah. And, and so a lot of people say, well then how did you make time for drumming? Well that's why you have a bus ride. And it was me and my, you know, my ipod at the time. Right. Remember those, the shuffles? Yeah. And I had a little practice pad with me and I made a point. Point trying to sit in the last.

Seat of the bus with my drumming.

I'm rudiment in the back of a bus. Try not to annoy my. The passengers. Yeah, right. Well, you know, it's just like this is. This is the routine.

This is a public bus.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Like I'm trying not, you know, annoy people, but I guess I was a little bit selfish that I want to be a driver and I want to fly. So this is how I'm spending my time and I make the best of it. Right. So, yeah, man, that's. That was three years of my time. And then 18 I came out and. Yeah, it was no jobs. And went to drumming and. For a year and a half. And then.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

So you didn't go to college or you did. No, no college.

No college.

What was that period in your life? Were you someone that grew up saying, hey, college is in my life. I'm gonna go do that? Did that change over time or what was your view on college, your upbringing? View on college?

And I'll tell you, I look at the. I look at the top executives in the world today, right? And they still have a boss, and their boss is the board of directors. Right. So. So. So the highest of levels in the college path is a network that'll just help you get a job. That ain't independence to me. So that wasn't the answer for me.

And you knew and that's how you thought about it early on. Yeah, so I didn't. When you say board of directors, companies, you were familiar with this sort of business conversation early on in your career. How was that?

Yeah, so. So my mom, one of the fortunate, very fortunate, and I love her to death for this things in my life was that my mom, she had a master's in economics and accounting.

So just to pause you opposite of this point of view, Right? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So totally like, you know, schooled up and she. Her narrative was, go to school, you don't want it. Right. So that. But what it was though, is she was so smart of this stuff, but applying it into business. Right. It was always me helping her applying it so she could shape her own company. And she went on to create a beautiful company in the accounting wealth management space. But as a result of the help and I don't know, I don't know what I brought, I can't tell you where this intelligence comes from. Is it Paying attention. Is it observing observant person. But I would help her with, I think you should do this, I think you should do that and I should sort of massage her company. And then they went to create really good stream of income for us to finally recover from the setback of my father passing. But to answer your question, yeah, I totally grew up in the place of go to college and university and I just didn't believe in it.

Wow. It was that something like your mom wanted you to go and it was upsetting that you didn't or was she on board with your thinking?

Well, I, I, I don't know. I, I actually never asked her about this, but I, I think at the time she was worried that I was going to do something that wasn't safe. Right. That wasn't what she knew.

Yeah, right, Absolutely.

But when she saw, I think the level of obsession associated with, you know, I've got this 15, 16 year old kid that's in the back of a bus, rudimenting, playing drums. Yeah.

And she's letting you. And I asked this because I, I'm reflecting on so many memories in my life where at this point is you're, you're in high school, your mom's letting you take this bus two hours, she knows you're playing drums on the way to go fly. And she's on board with that.

Yeah.

Was there a level of convincing that had to take place for you to get to that point or was she open where it's like, hey, do your thing and I know you are passionate about this.

You know what, man? It never actually came up. I, I don't know, I, it was as if I wasn't really a troublemaker or anything like that or. Okay. And I, I don't know, maybe a good compass in my head, so I knew what I was doing and you know, stranger danger, maybe somewhat. I don't know. We had been through so much by that time at 15.

Yeah.

It was like you're almost a young man.

Yeah.

So I think there was an element of trust that, hey, this is what you're doing. So go ahead and yeah. She was working late hours so she couldn't really do anything for me in the sense of transportation. Yeah.

That's, it's interesting to reflect on because I remember being 15 specifically and you know, that's really when I started immersing myself in this whole world of business and entrepreneurship and, you know, reading all these books on biographies and learning just how to think about money in the world. And for me it Was ninth grade, freshman year, I'm playing lacrosse, I'm playing football. My, my goal slash dream at that time is how can I play lacrosse at the University of Virginia uva? You know, that's my goal. And then boom, going to sophomore year, summer, get injured playing football. Going into sophomore year, I'm in this literally neck brace at school for six weeks. It was like the last week of summer that I got injured. And through that six week period, I'm getting home from school, immersing myself in just nothing but school work. Just all things business, marketing, social media, just learning and just immersing myself in that world. Being obsessed. And then by the, probably midway through sophomore year, I remember telling my mom, like, definitely not going to college. I'm like resenting it. I'm telling, you know, rich dad, poor dad, just bringing all these sort of facts and the knowledge that I'm reading in these books. And I remember there was this sense of like, oh, what is this? He's just having a phase, whatever it is. And then it's through that committed action that your parents start to see, like, oh my God, this guy is not stopping. He's so. It got to the point where I was invited, sort of like invited myself, found opportunities online where this young kid who's now is a good friend of mine, Caleb Maddox. He was 14 at the time, which is crazy to think on. I was 15. And this guy Caleb, he was written seven books by then. He spoke on stage with Tony Robbins. He's 14. His dad is an incredible father. It just like really brought him up in a great environment. And he was speaking in an event in San Diego. And long story short, I end up getting invited to speak at this event. Caleb and I connect on social. He's like, hey, you should come out to speak at this event. It's this young entrepreneurial panel. I don't know what panels are. Public speaking, it's a fear of mine. But I'm excited for an opportunity and being someone that has never been to California. My parents haven't flown on a plane in almost 30 years since their honeymoon. I asked my parents like, hey, can I go to San Diego on a Friday afternoon during school to go speak at this event? No. Right. Like a lot of I believe, you know, your parents are sharing their own thoughts on you and they try to protect you. Right? They want to play it safe. And I remember I go upstairs and I, I just buy the plane tickets. Pretty much all the money I had. I was doing some marketing, closing some deals with local businesses. To do their Facebook or Instagram management. I go upstairs, I buy a plane ticket for my dad and I, and I'm like, we're going. I bought the tickets and that was a catalyst for them to not only say yes, but I remember like that year, year and a half of convincing parent, my parents, through my actions, that they were finally on board with, you know, go do your thing. And then I remember going into junior and then senior year, senior year, I think I took three classes. I missed 80 something days of high school. I'm going to New York and Miami and LA and all these different events, doing podcasts, like starting my marketing agency and just never looked back. And I think just that level of, you know, for lack of better term, like delusional optimism is what I leaned into and that's what created that path. But to the point of. And similar to you, right. It's like I grew up in an environment where I, I was taking AP classes freshman year and I was going to go to college and it was just that understanding, as you said, board member, the, the level of freedom, it's capped, just set me down a different path. So, yeah, sort of share that with you. And I think it's just totally relatable to that thinking that you had and how a lot of young people nowadays are sort of understanding the world and what are the opportunities and what's actually worth my time.

Yeah. So I think it's important that I speak to this, the safety thing that I keep referencing, because I, I don't, I don't want it to be misunderstood as this is just, you know, a guy that's just destructively doing anything and anything at whatever cost. No, they're like, they're. I think safety is how our brains operate. Right. Like you don't accelerate to a red light. Right. It's just you don't because there's sort of lines and connectivity in your brain that that's not what you're supposed to do. Right. Just as you don't stop on the brakes towards a green light, right. So there is these things that we don't want to get rear ended on a green light. We're stopping our brakes. We don't want to get hit in a intersection by accelerating through a red light. Right? So then, so then what's possible? So then here's where I want to sort of open up an alternate reality. Let's just call it that. Right. Let's say that red light, right, is in the middle of a farm field. Just for ironic purposes. I'm trying to paint something completely different, a completely different environment. Is that red light? Does that mean anything anymore?

No, it doesn't.

So my thing is that the lines of safety are only as a direct relationship to the environment that it's being played in, which comes back to the flying airplane. I'm not gonna go fly, take my passengers upside down. That ain't safe. Right. Because. Because the environment of that is gonna likely cause some serious issues to the body of the aircraft. Yeah. But if I do the same thing up in space, we have no issues, do we?

Nope. Right.

So it all comes down to the environment. So the whole thing I'm getting at, the stock market's the same thing. The lines that people draw for safety and profit taking, this and that, it's only going to work if you're in the correct environment.

Yeah.

So it's all as a result of that environment, what safety truly actually is. It ain't this blanket rule that we all use.

I love that perspective. Yeah, Very cool perspective there.

Yeah. That's why I talk about. So the whole delusional optimism is because in the environment of succeeding, that's what works for you and that's why you're here.

Absolutely. I'm curious, is it a common thing, because I don't know the answer to this, for pilots to be successful in trading stock market? I mean, I don't know many pilots, but this idea of safety that you speak of and the ability to think about things from the lens of a pilot in like a non emotional way and safety precautions. Are your pilot friends all like traders and experience, or do they want to learn that, to be able to apply those that thinking and methodologies to the market, or is that just a rare 50?

50.

Okay.

Honest is 50 50. Right. Because in order to again, you have to break a very indoctrinated way of thinking.

Yeah. Right.

But I'll give an example of why most pilots, for example, that I speak to about the things that I've done and the way you need to think, they lean towards wanting to do this. So when we roll down the Runway, just to make it very simple, when we fly down, take off down a Runway, we've got 190 people on board. We're max takeoff weight. Right. We have a decision speed on the Runway.

Okay.

It's called V1. Okay. And that V1 speed is if we go past that speed, it's determined that if we were to stop the takeoff for any reason, there is a very, very high likelihood we'll go off the end of the Runway, which means that the safer decision is to continue to take off.

Yeah, Right.

So my position with all my pilot friends has always been, okay, so there's this, there's this area of this gray area between that v1 decision speed and the moment where the aircraft lifts off maybe five, six seconds later. Right. Because usually the rotation happens afterwards where you're relying on absolute uncertainty to not explode, not hit birds, have engines fall off. You can't tell me for real that you can guarantee the safe flight of that body, can you? And they're like, no, I can't. Everything is always based on chance. Oh, it's based on faith. Faith on what? Faith in the fact that you rely back on your practices. Like if something was to happen in that moment of uncertainty, from v1 to the decision to the rotation speed, I should say you're back, falling back on your principles. Training, how am I going to mitigate that if I lose an engine? How am I going to deal with that if I, if a wing blows up, how am I going to deal with that? These are trainings that we are relying on. So if I can just get you to understand that that environment of uncertainty is the stock market. And I just got to trade you.

Oh my God.

Between your decision speed and your liftoff on how to deal with those uncertainties. Why wouldn't you do this? And with Pilot specifically, they have a lot of time, hotel time, layover time.

Right.

A lot of the times we're doing what's called deadheading, which is like, you know, we have a, a passenger leg, we're in a passenger seat going to a place to start our flights. We have wi fi, Internet, like there was so much time. And I always, you know, try to help my peers understand. Listen, if you're in wealth creation, you're the perfect career. You are the perfect career. You actually have time, you know, you actually don't have to make time like a lot of professionals do.

Yeah, yeah. You have that idle time.

Absolutely.

That's a great.

So yes, pilots do make great traders, to answer your question. They do make great traders, but they have to be willing to truly become conscious to the moment of uncertainties that already exist in their day to day life. And if they accept that, then I think they'll accept the fact that they could be trained to learn the stock market as well.

Love that perspective.

Yeah, very cool.

It's. I could ask you so many questions about just flying right now that I'm interested in, but a couple more questions before you wrap up. I Mean when you look back on your life. So you still live in Canada full time.

Yes.

You travel a lot.

Yeah.

What is your day to day? I know we talked about this a little bit at the beginning now, but what does your day to day look like and what do you love to do?

Yeah. So my day to day, if it depends on if I'm flying or not. Okay. Because if I'm flying, there's a different routine.

Yep.

If I'm coaching my clients, there's a different routine. If I'm tapping into my preparing for a tour, there's a different routine.

Right.

Because there's different day to day. So I almost live three different realities, I feel like.

Right.

But I'll try to sort of summarize the, the, the, the key points of all, all of them. Right. So like I said to you about two and a half years ago, I, I started really looking at health differently.

Right.

Obviously I put on a lot of weight, you know, working through pain and stuff. So I started discovering, okay, where does this come from? So the first thing I like to do in the mornings now. Right. Is I usually start with a green juice. That's kind of funny, but it's this green juice.

Which one do you know?

It's a kale, spinach, cucumber.

So you make it.

Yeah, yeah. And, and, and lemon and ginger. Okay. So these five things and what it is, this green juice, even if it necessarily doesn't, you know, lead to weight loss, what it is, is a win that I start with in the morning that is like, hey, you know what? I took my health seriously from the first thing that I did when I woke up. Right. And then from that point forward, it really depends what's next if I'm going to go flying. Right. Typically it's, it's, you know, look at our flight plans and looking to see what the weather and all the standard things that we aspire to look at before we accept the flight assignment. If it's drumming, meditate, you know, I don't have stage fright, but I, when.

I, Is that a way of saying you have stage right? I don't know.

I mean, I'll tell you this. When I step on the stage, you feel an energy, man, for sure. Like there is a wave that just hits you and that's especially when you about to start. So I just, I like to have the ability to have just practice meditation. Because if I carry that two, three minute meditation practice into when I walk onto the stage, I was able to isolate any, any thought that came up of if I'm going to screw up or any mistakes. You still feel that as a pro. Right. So you don't want to screw up. Especially in a pro, expectations are even higher.

Right.

And then if it's to step into, to do like coaching clients or. I do a lot of one on one calls with my clients because oftentimes money people don't want to talk about their struggles and their pains. Right. So I do a lot of one on one and help them through those pains and see them differently and reflect on a lot of the pains I've had to work through and how I've done that. Because I'm going to walk into somebody else's disturbed world. Let's just call it that. It's important I get centered. So centering for me is if I can get a workout in the morning. I love pushing weights. I don't look like it quite yet, but I promise you, underneath all this there's probably a very strong body. Yeah. Push weights, Go on. I like to walk fast on, on the stairs. StairMaster. I do it for like five minutes. I'm dying, but. But still I, you know, I try to push and I don't try. What I don't do is I don't push beyond five minutes. But if I can do five, 10, I increase the speed.

Yeah.

So I stay at five minutes. Try to keep the body like in a state of constant discomfort while also progressing limits. Those are my routines randomly. I love that.

No, that's great. I think that the meditative side of the that. Has that always been a practice or like when did you start adopting that? When it comes to like whether that's before calls, before the stage and what does that time do for you?

If you had to really pin meditation for me, honestly, dude, is just. I realized that I was holding a lot of pain in my life.

Right.

And it was a lot of unresolved, I think unresolved emotions through probably loss and just the strange things that come as a bout of being a young kid, that's got to figure their way out. Right. So once I realized the power of meditation and how you can like observe a thought and not react to that thought, just the basics of that, it really flipped everything around for me. And with everything like even to the point of like, you know, food cravings, that's a thought. That's it. There's nothing more than a thought. Right. It might be a feeling in your stomach and stuff, but you have the power to not react to that thought. Right. So once I start Seeing, like, start taking health more seriously in my life and, you know, turning things around, for lack of better terms. Right. I'm still not done, but turning things around, meditation became an important part of it.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Do you follow any meditation practice or, like, use any apps or guided meditations or.

No. All I do, literally, is super. It's super simple. I'm all about keeping it super simple. Okay. I literally just envision an empty box, and I. Any thought that tries to, you know, come in my mind, I envision that as a circle that's trying to enter the box, and I just bounce it off the box, and I'm just focusing on that black box. That's it. There's nothing else. And sometimes I hold the fingers just for the heart rate, to feel it, to kind of feel the pulse of being alive, but that's it.

Man, that's great. I love that. Well, one more question. We wrap up just reflecting on your journey. I mean, first of all, for this being your first podcast, this has been absolutely incredible. So epic. I've learned so much, and I know the audience has as well. But if you were to go back and give your younger self a piece of advice, life, business, both, what would that advice be and why?

Okay. The number one advice is if you've got a vision, it's yours. Keep it. Keep it sacred, Work on it, and don't stop till you have it. Why? Because I think that our imagination is almost our gift.

Right.

To pursue a thing that makes sense to us. Right. Doesn't have to make sense to your parents, make sense to your friends. Doesn't take sense to anybody else. Right. But if it makes sense to you, go after it. I love that because that's what I did. For me, that was literally trading, flying, playing music, and nobody believed in that in the beginning. Right, Right. But here I am. And that's it.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

Well, he said, thank you so much for coming on today. Before we wrap up here, I want to give the opportunity. Where is the best place for everyone listening or watching to follow you, to stay connected with you and just be a part of your journey?

You bet. You know, one of a few places on Instagram, it's therealisamamy. Right. On Facebook, it's facebook.com esamami and if you just type in my name and LinkedIn, I'm there as well. Depending on which genre you're in on social media, I guess. Yeah, sure.

Well, I'll be sure to link that all down below. And again, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Thanks.

It has been an absolute pleasure. And if you're watching and you made it this far, thank you so much for tuning in. Make sure you subscribe. Go check out Issa and all social platforms, and I'll talk to you guys soon.