Episode 052: Stephen Liao - How To Build Your Credit

Legacy of Monsters, an Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me. The most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

Oh, my God.

Go, go, go.

Legacy of Monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV.

What's up? Jason Tatum here. Ball up wherever you are with NBA 2K mobile. Plan game events to collect NBA legends and rising stars to assemble your dream team and settle things on the court. NBA 2K mobile lets you put together your dream team with your favorite NBA legends and current goats. Download NBA 2K mobile now on the App Store and Google Play.

This is the Rise of the Young podcast, bringing you insights from the most innovative entrepreneurs and influencers of this era. Hosted by 17 year old entrepreneur, author.

Public speaker and branding expert, Casey Adams.

Now let's get right into the show.

What's going on, everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome to the Rise of the young podcast, episode 52. We have my good friend Steven Lau with us today and we're gonna be talking about a lot of things. But first off, Steven, I really appreciate you coming on.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely, man. So, I mean, dude, I know that we've been connected for the last couple of months now, ever since we met in Vegas, but for the people that may not know who you are and what you do or kind of how you all started, I'd love to just kind of let you break down where you're from and how you got into what you're doing now.

Yeah. So I was born and raised in Cincinnati, Ohio. Transferred to Stanford after a year going to college, and then I dropped out of Stanford about a year and a half ago. I got into credit because my dad wouldn't really teach me about credit. So I dropped out, went and did my startup and I kind of learned credit along the way because, you know, it's such an important skill to have and, you know, one thing led to another. I realized that you could game the travel game with like credit cards. I started traveling the world for free, private jets, Ritz Carlton's, all the while making some money too. So Now I have 220 credit cards. I have $3.2 million lines of credit.

That's insane. And literally, I met you from. I know that you've been doing a lot of stuff with Tai Lopez now. That's how I figured out who you are. I'm sure a lot of people have seen you on there as well, man. But kind of before we get into everything deep with credit. When did you kind of start with credit? Because I know the question for myself is like, do you have to be 18 to start building your credit?

Yeah. So like what I wish I knew when I was like 17 or 16 is that you can start building credit like even before you turn 18. The only reason like most people think you have to turn 18 to do credit is because you have to legally sign a contract that binds that account to yours. But you can get added as an authorized user. I told you that Casey. Like just ask your parents, ask somebody that's 18 and above with good credit and they can add you as an authorized user and you'll inherit all that credit. So how I got started, you know, I was asking my dad, yo, give me a credit card and you know, I want to be cool, I want to flex this credit card to all my friends. I don't want that debit card life. And my dad said, no, you can't handle it. And I've always been a rebel. So I just went out and did my own research. I applied for my first credit card. I realized that there was a sign up bonus and you know, one thing led to another, started traveling the world for free.

Okay, okay, I see. So, so like you said, so I'm 17 now if I wanted to start building my credit and. But my parents have bad credit. Is that something you do or don't do?

You don't want them to add you on because you'll inherit all their bad payments and they're like, you know, like their bad payment history, their utilization. So you know, hell I could add you as an authorized user to me and you'll inherit like $3.2 million lines of credit like in your name. So like it won't hold as much weight but it will definitely give you a foot in the door. So like I know people like in my like little credit community, I know people that add their two year old daughters as like they're on to like their credit report. And some people like actually add their dogs and cats. So I don't know how that works. Like I don't think there's any benefit to that. But you know, some, some dogs have credit scores.

Okay. For sure man. So quick question before we like I said, get into deepness of it. So, so I have a lot of young people that follow me. Some may be 13, 15, 17 to 25. So first off, for the people that may not even know what credit is, what's like the general description? So the people that May not know exactly what you're talking about.

Yep. So traditionally, you know, like when you use a debit card, maybe you're like 13, 15 watching this. A debit card is basically tied directly to your bank account. Right. So if you have $1,000 in your bank account, you can basically pull money from that bank account every time you swipe your debit card. What a credit card is, is that you're borrowing money bank. So for example, you have $1,000 in your bank account and say you have $5,000 lines of credit, you can spend up to $5,000, but you just eventually have to pay it back. There's some things that you know that people aren't really aware of is that spending your line of credit you eventually always have to pay back. So just because you have $5,000 line of credit doesn't mean you can just spend $5,000. Just treat it as if you only had $1,000 in your bank account and you'll never have to worry about owing money. But the trick, what the catch is for borrowing money is that if you don't pay off all of it all at once, you get something called interest and interest tax on sometimes it's 20%. That's really high for a credit card. So you know you may be owe $1,000 this month. Well now 20% interest, now you owe $1,200 next month.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, dude, that's, that's the real stuff. So regarding credit, so you said, what age did you kind of like start? Were you 18?

I started the day I turned 18. So my birthday is in June. Like literally two, three days after my birthday, I started applying for it. I remember the first two applications I submitted I got denied. So don't feel discouraged. Some cards out there are just really hard cards to get. But that should be all the more motivation for you to go get it. I'm 20 now and most people don't even know what a black card is, but I have a black card. It took me a year to get to it. I'm not saying that all of you guys can go out and just follow my steps and get it, but if you have enough persistency to it, it's closer than you think to get.

Okay, yeah. Cuz I was about to bring up for everyone that doesn't know. So you're 20 now. You started two years ago and then you said you have over 220 credit cards to your name.

Yep.

Here's my thing because I know like we've been connected now but like when you first hear that like coming from like no one that's really entrepreneurial, my family that has like the whiz about credit, like that just sounds insane. So like number one, like having over 200 credit cards, like what's the value in it? And just like for the people that just like can't even fathom having 200 credit cards, like what's the value in it for that question?

Yep. So like having 220 credit cards, I actually only use about four or five of them. I don't use them actively. Some of the credit cards aren't even in my personal name. They're my business's name. And you sometimes want that because the more credit cards you have in your name, it kind of hurts you as well. But if you keep in your business name, it removes that liability aspect which helps your credit score. So the benefits of having 220 credit cards, there's really no benefit in having that many. That's like just to start off. But the reason I have that many is because I get sign up bonuses. Like you see those offers in the mail, earn 50,000 points, earn $1,000 cash back or whatever after spending X amount, spend $500 and you get all this. So I did something called manufactured spending, which is spending money that you actually, you buy cash equivalents, like buy gift cards and then use that gift card to pay off the credit card balance that you owe. So technically you never actually spent any money. You just bought money and then took that money and paid like the credit card back. And you earn the signup bonuses and you pocket thousand points or 100,000 points and you travel the world free with it, first class, whatever you want to do. They always say like spend money for experiences. But here you're spending money for experiences and then you're not actually spending money at all because you're just.

That's insane. Hold on. So for people that might not have got that, so you have four or five that you use and you get like the prepaid credit cards or debit cards. Correct.

From the store. Like grocery stores, malls, they always sell it. They're like Visa gift cards. Buy those gift cards. And there's different like tricks that you do because the games always change. It's like cat and mouse game, they're always shutting stuff down. But then new opportunities open up and you basically buy those cash equivalents, meet the sign up bonus. So like it's like spend $4,000 and you get this. And they're usually expecting you to spend $4,000 on shit you don't need. And then you realize that, oh crap, I owe $4,000 now I have to pay interest. That's how they get you. But see, you're smarter than that. All of you guys are smarter than that because you're not going to do it. You're going to spend $4,000 on exact cash equivalents and take that $4,000 and pay it right back.

Oh wait, so, because this is new to me as well. So you have a credit card, let's say you have a $4,000 credit limit. You buy those debit card gift cards that has the cash equivalents just to then pay that $4,000 back with the cash equivalent, but you meet the sign.

Up bonus while doing that and then you pocket the fifty thousand thousand dollar cash or whatever and you just repeat that over and over and over.

Okay, so, so pretty much like the, because I saw recently on your story, like it was like the $25, the $50 like cash gift cards. Correct?

Those are all $500 gift cards. Each one is $500 gift card. Yep. I took a picture on my snap. I had like over $200,000 worth of the gift cards on my bed.

Okay, so pretty much. So this, these credit cards are like, so are they debit cards or credit cards once you're buying their cash?

They are gift cards, They're Visa cards, they're prepaid cards.

So you're buying these cards and then you use the cash equivalents in those cards to pay back the credit card that you owe now with money. And then when you do that, each like $500 card that you sign up with it, you get points for that.

So each, no, the $500 card, you pay off the credit card balance on the original card. So for example, you had card A, right? You take card A and then say it's like you have to spend $4,000 in order to get your bonus of a thousand, like, or a hundred thousand like travel points. Right? So you take that and you go buy eight $500 gift cards, right? So that equates to $4,000. And then you take those eight gift cards and you pay off card A, the first credit card. So now your balance was negative 4,000. Now it's back down to zero. But in that process you hit that requirement of spending $4,000 and then you, it's all good.

And then you get those points.

Yep.

Dude, that's a, that's a trip. Because that's, this is all new to me for everyone listening as well. So this is definitely benefiting me as well as the people listening. So pretty much when you first started, is that the process that you went through, or was that something that you kind of gained knowledge from over the last two years?

When I first started, all I wanted was a credit card. It was the most. It was the coolest experience to see a card come in the mail. It has your name on it, and that's yours, and that's a really cool feeling. And, like, at first, that was all I needed. It's like a. It's like a high. You have to keep, like, getting higher and higher and higher. You know, I got this, like, little Discover it, like, student credit card. I was like, oh, this is so cool. And then I'm like, you know what? I want that feeling again. I'm gonna get a better card. I want to show off to my friends or whatever. And then eventually, like, so I'm here now. I have this Centurion card right here. This is, like, the coveted black card that everyone, like, is always, like, talking about.

The one that Titanium, like, you can drop it, and it makes the noise.

Like, I don't know if you can see it, but that's the sound it makes, like, when. When you drop it. But, you know, like, I. I just kept going higher and higher, and you just kept setting goals for yourself. And the thing is, I made it a hobby. And credit is honestly a really good thing to make your hobby, because you're going to need it for rest of your life. Whether you're doing, you know, just, like, trying to buy, like, a small, like, item at a grocery store, or if you're trying to do, like, $100 million real estate deal, you're going to. At one point, you're going to need your credit, and you're also going to build up your business credit doing it as well.

Okay. Because. Yeah, I'm glad you brought up real estate, because I went to a Fortune Builders event when I was, like, 15, and they were talking about, like, good credit and bad credit. So obviously, some people, like, they'll getting a credit card debt, that's the bad way. Like, when it comes to, like, parents that have bad credit, they don't really get it. So when it comes to your definition of good credit versus bad credit, how do you define them?

So good credit is basically, like, you have something called a FICO score, right? FICO score is what? Like, it's between 300 all the way up to 850. And so 850 is a perfect credit score, but that's unrealistic. Like 850 takes 10 years to build. And I'm not exaggerating, it will take you 10 years to build an 850 credit score. I would say anything in the 7 in the mid 700 range and up is good. And then anything, you know, like below 600 is bad. And if you're anywhere in between that like, area that's not good or bad, that's probably where you're around starting out and that's where you want to start growing.

Okay, I see. Yeah. So you brought up black card. And like I said, this is all sort of new to me as well. So what exactly is a black card? And what makes it hard to reach for everyone listening?

So black card, you have to spend $250,000 annually. Like, and that's on American Express alone. Not just total, but you have to spend $250,000 just American Express. So like, you go to your score, you always have to swipe with American Express. And then you get an invite in the mail. That's like a really nice like, pamphlet. It's like hard. It's like, it's, it's high quality. And it says like, hey, Mr. Lau, we want to invite you to the Centurion card. And that's what it's actually got. It's not called the black card, it's called the Centurion card. And this card. Oh my God. I mean, there's no credit limit to it. So like I say I have a 3.2 million credit limit, but I could go out and buy a hundred million dollar house with that card. Yeah. So like it's also building that good enough trust with American Express to know that like, you know, you're there, you're not gonna screw American Express over. But people have done that. People go and buy houses, people buy whatever with that card. And that no credit limit, you can spend much as you want on there.

That's insane. So with that, like having this card, you can spend whatever amount you want with it. But like you said the beginning, you have to eventually pay that back, right?

Yep.

Okay, so going out and spending a hundred million dollar house or whatever, that's not the best.

You have to pay it back. Yeah. Or else. And so the thing is, is the, there's one of the tips I always tell people is like spend however much money you have in your bank. I don't care if you have a five million dollar credit line or a $50 credit line. If you have $50 in your, in your bank account, that's how much you're spending now as you get on to like more advanced business techniques, you know, like if you're investing in real estate or Ty talks about like, you know he has to get a 45 day ROI return on investment, then you can start accumulating smart debt because then you can say like all right, I'm gonna spend $300,000 here but I know that you know in 45 days I'm gonna get $450,000 back. So you're spending smart money and you're accumulating smart debt. Right. If you go out and buy you know, some Gucci flip flops and a Louis Vuitton bag that bags not gonna be worth as much like and you're not gonna be able get your money back. It doesn't provide an roi. So like for general purposes like when you're starting out, just spend however much money you have in your bank. That's how much you're gonna spend too. You get more advanced. Then you can start saying like alright, cool, I'll go into red for like 20. Negative 20,000. But I know I'm gonna bounce back and like make $30,000 off this deal.

Okay. And that's like saying if you buy a house of 20 grand but you know it's gonna appreciate and be 30. So you can, then you can swipe your card and then pay back 20 and have the 10 within 45 days like you were saying.

Because you know what, you're a cure. What you're acquiring is going to grow eventually to something that's going to be worth more than what you just went in dead on. So people that you need money to make money. Right? So who has money? The bank. So a damn good relationship with the bank in order to. And that's where credit is. Credit is saying that like this is how good your relationship with the banks are.

I know even for me like, like I said, it's all new to me. I don't have a credit card yet. That's definitely something that I definitely want to talk to you about. And on a private note. But yeah man. So for everyone listening, I know that you said you have four to five that you use number one. Like what are the different benefits for different credit cards and do you recommend a certain one? Just so like give some people some like techniques or some applicable stuff.

And this is like this gets you gold status and then you can start doing status matching. So I have a couple videos out with Ty right now. But status match is like some cards give you gold Status or diamond status with whatever hotel chain. And then you can go from one hotel chain and email a different hotel chain, say, like, hey, I'm a diamond status at this hotel. Can you give me the same status? And they'll match you because they want your business. And so, like, you know, through one or two credit cards, like, this is the Ritz Carlton credit card. This is actually the heaviest credit card there is. It's heavier than the black card. You can hear that that's a heavy card. But that's one of the cards I keep. I keep a business card, so I use the Chase Inc. Preferred. So if you're like, you know, learning about social media and social media advertising, the Chase Inc. Preferred gets you a higher return and higher point back when you spend on social media ads. So it's just doing your due diligence and do research on all the cards you're applying for. Everyone has different needs. Right. Like, there's some cars out there that have like 5% back on gas, but I don't spend that much on gas, so I don't really keep in my wallet.

Yeah.

Also, you know, cars that like have high returns on going to office stores, like Office Depot and stuff. And I go there a lot because I send my secretary and she goes and like runs errands there. I want her to be putting my business spend on that car. So I get the most cash back when we. I stuff them off Depot.

That's sick, man. So bringing up travel, I know like you said at the beginning of this, which people are not familiar with, it's like you get to travel private jet, free, wherever, when it comes to the points that you accumulate. So I know that we talked a lot about just like credit itself, but like the travel aspect of it, I'd love for you to like, kind of touch on that. I know we talked about the points and that's how you accumulate the points, but I'd love for you to just kind of briefly touch on just like, how do you travel for free with credit? Right, right.

So once you meet those signup bonuses and you buy those gift cards or you meet them organically and you actually spend $4,000 and you get those points. Those points are like our miles and they can be used as hotel points. They can be used in a variety of different ways. And you use those points and you go book like a hotel room and then you go book a flight and with those points and then plus the status, you get upgrades. So you could book like, you know, the cheapest seat or the cheapest car. Like with me with Hertz, I book a Corolla every time. But if you watch me on my Snapchat or my Instagram, you know, I always end up driving a Mercedes or a Range Rover or something.

Yeah.

So if you're not following me, my Snapchat is Steven Lau S T E P H E N L I A O My Instagram is Lao Step L I A O S T E P And like, you'll see, like I'll book stuff for like $9 a day for a Toyota Corolla or I'll book like a hotel room for like $80 and then get upgraded to a $5,000 suite. Or I'll book an entire flight for free. I'll pay taxes for like $4 and then get upgrade to first class. And then how I got to private jets, there's a deal that they said if you had a million miles or more, you can match and then we'll give you a private jet membership. And so that's what I did. I had a million miles in Delta and they matched me to JetSmart, matched me for three months as a trial and then they said, yeah, if you refer a couple friends. I did, I referred a couple friends and now I have like a two year membership with JetSmarter. Yep. And then it's just PJ from now on.

That is insane, man. That's a hack, bro. And I just feel like so many people just, there's tricks, you know, it's like talking to you on this, it's like people just don't get the trick. So regarding the travel. So you said you had a million miles on Delta and you were, you built that up within two years?

Yep. Not even, not even two years. Like less than a year.

Okay, that's what's up. So when it comes to like the free with jetsmarter now. So they matched you and like you didn't pay a dime out of your pocket to then get that membership and then for each flight that's free due to the points.

Yep, it's. Well no, it's, it's free because I just mart membership. The membership usually is like a $50,000 a year membership and they gave it to me for free just because they want my business. And you know, I, they gave it to me for free just because of all the miles I got. And they're thinking that they give me the membership for free because I spent a lot of money with, with Delta and that's how I got the miles. But no, I didn't spend any money with Delta. I got all the miles from credit cards.

That's insane, man. That's a, That's a hack. So when it comes to, like, because I always, when I'm flying out to LA or whatever it may be, people, they like, they're like talking on a mic, like, sign up for this certain travel card and get 50,000 points. Do you have like, certain, like American Airlines travel cards or is that the Delta card that you're talking about?

So there's Delta credit cards. There's four Delta credit cards through American Express and you can get a sign up bonus on each of those ones. And they all have benefits. They get you into the Delta lounges or. Actually, no, I take that back. There's six Delta cards. There's. There's the two. There's Delta gold for personal, Delta gold for business, platinum for personal, platinum for business. And then there's reserve for personal reserve for business. And then there's for like, for example, if you're flying United, you go to Chase. If you're flying American, you go with Citi. So each bank has like a partnership, one of the major airlines. Wow.

Okay. I did not know that. That's super cool. So when it comes to. I know that when it comes to Ty, you've been doing a lot with him and I'm sure that's got you a lot of credibility and followers from just doing a lot of stuff with him. So when it comes to that, when it comes to the credit side of things. But now we met on social media and we've connected in person. Now. How did you really get involved with the right people from social media? Because I know a lot of people that I follow. Follow me. It's all about networking. Like, me and you were networking. We networked in Vegas. So how are you able to transition and like, start growing your network on social. Social media and partnering with Ty and all that sort of stuff?

I'll tell you, like, so I don't like going to networking events for the sake of networking. And this is something you'll hear me, if you're ever with me in person, I'm like, pretty passionate about this. I don't believe in networking. It's like, if you go to a networking event that's deemed a networking event, it's like going to a bar. Is that one dude that hits on a hundred different girls, right? You can smell disparity from a mile away, right? The one guy that's like going to everybody, hey, invest in me. Buy my company, you know, Buy my shit. Like, nobody's there. Like, people. The people that are there are well off are already well off and don't give a crap. And then the people that are there to try and find people think that everyone gives a crap, but nobody gives a crap. So how I met with Ty, like, I would go. I strategically network, right? And that's why I go to private jets. That what. That's why I fly first class. You'll be amazed when you start flying first class instead of economy or when you start going to Ritz Carlton's instead of Motel 6. You'll meet a lot more people at Ritz Carlton that are more beneficial to your network than, like, sitting in Motel 6. Like, it's just being around the right crowd, right? Even if you get till you make it, even if you can't afford Ritz Carlton's yet, even if you can't afford private jets yet, go to where these people hang out and. Because that's where you catch them in their, like, you know, not as, like, tense state. Because if I'm going to a networking event and somebody comes up to me, I'm already making assumptions about you long before you even come and talk to me, right? But if I'm just sitting there golfing or if I'm sitting there, you know, sipping a coffee in the Ritz Carlton lounge, I'm not, like, you know, I don't have my guard up. So if you come and sit down, I'm just going to. I'm not making assumptions about it. Like, okay, cool. Hey, what's up? Like, and then you'll talk. So how I met with Ty, I went to one of his Santa Monica conferences, and I got into the Diamond Lounge, and that, like, I got. I paid, like, the upcharge and everything. I got to the Diamond Lounge, and that's where I caught Ty. I didn't catch tie in the general networking area. I caught tie in, like, exclusive areas. And that's where the value of, like, you know, being in a close, like, working circle is, like, that's where you're gonna meet the right people.

That's what's up, man. Yeah. It's funny that you bring that up, because I know Ricky Aranda. He does a lot of private jets. And, like, he'll meet, like, NFL stars, like, just, like, the craziest people. And that's something I. I need to definitely hop on that boat because I don't. I don't fly private or anything like that. Yeah. But, like, I just see, like. Like you're saying the networking that can come from it. Like, I'm definitely interested to see, like, who I can meet or what value I can get from it. But I know people like you, like, you've experienced it, and it's definitely the way to go.

Yep. I mean, I've raised six, seven figures. I also have a social media starter. That's where I put majority of my focus. It's not making any money right now, but that's where I put majority of my focus because I'm passionate about it. I've raised six, seven figures. And a lot of these people you meet not from, you know, going to networking events. Every single person that's on my investment board, all of them are people I met through, you know, going on private jet, going to a golf place. I don't even know how to golf, but I'll go hang out at a golf club, meet people.

Right.

And so it's when you go to a bar, the girls there are already, like, they have their guards up. Right. Unless if you are the most attractive, sexy guy, like, walk in there, like, the chances are against you. The odds are right. And especially the girls are watching. They will see you. You've already hit on 98 other girls, and you're just making me number 99. Right. So they're. They're not, like, you know, going to be as open as, you know. If you meet them in, like, you know, like, scrapbooking club or whatever. Right. Natural place, they're gonna be like, okay, cool, my guard isn't up. Let's talk. Right? Oh, you like scrapbooking too? Let's talk. Right. That's how I see networking. Right. You don't. I don't go to networking events to network. I go to network investors to hang out. And if I really want to network, I go to places that aren't networking events.

Dude, that's some fire, bro. I like the analogy of girls at a bar. That's so true.

Yeah. It's like, you want to catch people off guard. And when people are at bars and people are at, like, networking events, their guards are up, my guard is up. And when I'm at an event, like, anybody that comes up to me, I always think, like, okay, what's your real motive for coming to talk to me? Do you want money from me? Do you want, like, what do you want from me? Right. Versus, hey, like, I just want to talk to you one on one as a person rather than, you know, on equal grounds. Not like, as if I'm better than you or you're Better than me or whatever.

I like that for sure, man. That's dope. So with your startup, is that something you want to share publicly or can we talk about that or is that more low key right now?

So my, no, no. My startup is called Moves Inc. You can follow the Instagram, it's eal Moves app R E A L M O V E S a P P so if you want. So my. So what the social media is like, if you look at all the social media right now, there's Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, and all of them are individual focused. So if you're not an influencer, if you're not Casey Adams with 170 some thousand Instagram followers, you're just a normal person with a thousand Instagram followers or a thousand Facebook friends and say you post something about, say you're really into drawing or you're into art and you post something on Facebook and you have your grandma following you, you have your co workers following you, have your friends following you, you have everybody who's anybody following you and it's not going to be 100% relevant. So what my startup is doing is like look at the fastest way to submit content. That's Snapchat. What's the best way to curate content? That's Reddit. It's a new site right now. But I can go on Reddit right now and go to R like Fortnite or R golfing and find 380,000 other people that share the same interest as me. And they do it through community upvotes, upvoting and downloading, that's how they find the best content. But it's called Reddit because it's heavy on text. So my startup is doing, we're taking Snapchat fast content submission because it's the fastest way to take a picture. And rather than sharing with your friends, you're sharing with communities. And we create micro influencers that way. So we were doing about 40 million daily impressions through Snapchat. We built a proof of concept on Snapchat in the college community. So we were in 76 different colleges and just on Snapchat alone, in eight months, we built 40 million daily impressions.

Wow, man, that's some next level. I'm glad you brought that up because I didn't even know really about it, but I know that I've heard about it in conversations, but I didn't really know about it, man. So that's some cool stuff.

So how long me as the credit person? But that's like that's my actual main thing. I don't really talk about it because I'm, you know, I'm in my, like, as Gary Vee says, like, you know, I'm down and down low. I'm hustling. I'm not like, you know, bragging about it. I'm just hustling and grinding until we do make it and then I do talk about it. So, like, for credit, I hustled and grinded for. On credit for a year and then say anything until a year later. And now. And then when Ty talked about now, I'm talking about it.

Yeah, that's some real stuff. So with the Real Moves app, how long of the. How long of the process, are you into it or is it new?

So we are here in. So, like, the mansion I'm living in right now is actually, like, under my company for moves. So, like, I live in Vegas. This is my mansion. If you're ever in Vegas, hit me up, come check it out. I'm actually hosting. Casey, you're welcome to come. I want you to come speak there too. So, yeah, it's. This is the reason that this mansion is here is because of Moves.

That's what's up, man. That's some. That's some cool stuff, man. So Moves. That is it. You can get it on the iOS app store right now or what?

You can get on the app Store right now, for sure.

Yeah. And for everyone listening, all the social medias, all the links to everything, that would definitely be down in the description, so you won't have to worry about getting all the information on that. But yeah, man, a few more questions before we let you go, man. So regarding just entrepreneurship in general, definitely something I want to talk to you about. I know you're young, you're 20. I have a lot of young people that follow me. And obviously you've been able to build your credit or build a company or build the things you've been able to get from at your age. So far, super, super interesting to me. But what's been some of, like, the core fundamentals that you try to, like, not knock down on a daily basis, like, do you have any habits that you've really attributed, to things that you've got or what sort of the things that you think have helped you the most?

So a lot of people, like, really ask me, like, oh, how do you get money? How do you get rich? Or how do you live the lifestyle? And my biggest thing is, like, chase whatever idea or whatever thing you're passionate about. You have to be passionate about something. And then once you're passionate about something, you can make it into a career or make it into your job. And when you make it into your job, you'll get the money. But if you chase the money first, you always lose. And so like, my thing every day is like, I wake up and I do something that I love to do because I don't feel like I'm working. I go downstairs, I work with my team, I build my social media startup, and I've never in a day felt like, you know, I need to get paid or anything, right? The quicker you disassociate yourself from money and work and you just focus on, you know, this isn't work. This is what I love to do. Even if I wasn't getting paid, I'll still wake up and do it. That's the kind of mentality I set for myself. And I did it like, I dropped out of school, I dropped out of Stanford. I hunt. I had a hundred eighty thousand dollars a year job offer from Apple. I graduated from Stanford and I never took it. It was a huge risk. And I just thought about, look, I don't want to be an Alexa or a Siri. What I mean by that is, you know, they teach you things that they regurgitate in class, right? They teach chemistry. Even though you teach you physics yet. Like, when's the last time you, like, talk to a billionaire that's talking about physics? No, they like, it's, it's all about real world, right? The school system teaches you to work for somebody else. And if you want to work for somebody else, then do it. But if you don't, then, you know, you gotta change your goals rather than digging yourself into $85,000 in debt before you even step out into the real world. Start at zero. At least start at the finish line. Don't take 15 steps back and then run at the finish line. Run at the starting line, right? That's the truth.

So you dropped out of college at.

What year I dropped out of college? My second end of my third semester. So, like, I went a year and then a third semester and that dropped out.

That's what's up. And what was like, because I know I also, I talked to a lot of people that like, follow me and like, they're in college, they're thinking about dropping out. What was that process like for you? Was it a hard decision? And what kind of like, led you to that point of dropping out?

This is what you do, right? Don't tell your parents you're dropping out, that's gonna screw you over in your relationship. Tell your parents you're taking a semester off and just take a semester off to find yourself or whatever. Tell them whatever to calm them down. If you tell them you're dropping out, that's a bad connotation, too. You're like, oh, my God, my child's gonna do drugs and, like, get screwed over or whatever. Tell them you're taking a semester off. You know, school's been a little hard, but I want to be able to make the right decision for myself. You know, it goes a long way, and your parents will be a little more.

Dude, that. That's a good. I like that a lot. Because even for me, man, like, I'm taking a gap year according to. I tell my parents, but, like, I'm not going to college, you know, But I like that. That's. I feel like a lot of people don't really hear that a lot.

Like, people are going into college as an undecided major. I think that's the biggest, like, waste of time. So I have more respect for the people that, like, are undecided than the people that are decided majors. Because some people go on year three, and, you know, they realize that they don't want to be a mechanical engineer, they want to be an artist or a musician and royally screwed over because there's $74,000 in debt, and you're not even going to get a job that you want to do. Better yet, just to start off from, you know, the starting line at zero than digging yourself $85,000 in debt, screwing over your credit, and not even knowing what you want to do. Another thing is, like, I view, like, life. Like, let's just assume, like, I think average is. This isn't the correct number, but just for the sake of it, 88 years in a normal person's life, right? You live up till around 88. So that breaks into four quarters. 22, 44, 66, 80, and then you're dead. So 0 to 22 is all about building your foundation. That's all about you growing yourself and you becoming a better you and you getting ready to face life. And then, you know, 22 is usually when people are finishing college and whatever. And then 22 to 44, that's your prime years. That's you building up yourself. That's you building up your business, you building up your career, you building up whatever. And then4466 is just leaving on autopilot. You've done the hard work and now you're raking in the profits. And then from 66 to 88, you're retiring and you're enjoying, and you're essentially preparing to exit the world. Right. I don't understand, like, people, on average retire, like, two, three hundred thousand dollars in their bank account, yet they have dreams of going to Bali and traveling the world in private jets and driving Lamborghinis. And I'm completely okay with people setting goals and then reaching them. But you're setting. I hear goals like this all the time. I want to drive a Lamborghini. I want to go to Bali. But you're doing the actions that will never get you there, right? You're working $64,000 a year job, trying to pay $85,000. Like, debt down. Like, that's not gonna get you there. And with $300,000, when you retire at 66, God help you if you have cancer or you get into a car accident or something. That $300,000 rainy day fund is going away real quick, and you're not gonna live a good end of your life. Not to mention that, you know, when you're 66, your dick doesn't get hard anymore either. Like, you know, your marriage sucks. Yeah, yeah. It's not fun. You're old and saggy. You barely can walk up the stairs. You much rather enjoy your life from 22, 44, 44, 66. Live your entire life like you want to live it. And then when you're 66, you can look back like, you know what? I lived a pretty damn good life.

Yeah. That's the truth, man. And even with interest rates, like, you Pay, you have 84,000 paying debt. Like, that's not 84,000 to stay. You know, it's gonna interest.

Like, you're paying that. And that's not even a guarantee for a job. Like, I'll leave you guys one thing just to think about college, right? Like, 30 years ago, going to college made sense because it guaranteed you a job and it guaranteed you to be able to pay off that debt. Right. In today's world, I don't know what the, like, percentage rate is, but it's definitely not guarantee. Getting a college degree doesn't mean shit. Like, it doesn't guarantee you. And the way I put it, like this is, imagine if you go to a Mercedes Benz dealership and you get a Mercedes E class. That's a $50,000 car. Maybe get the S class 80, $100,000 car. That's roughly around how much college costs, right? Do you trust an 18 year old three months ago needed a pass to go wipe his own ass and go to the bathroom. Like, you know, literally three months ago, he's home three months later to make that kind of decision, to go buy something at that level. And, and I'll make an even better analogy, right? You go and spend 50 or $80,000 on Mercedes Benz and they deliver it and drop it off in your garage and the next morning they tell you, they say when you go start your car, you have a 71% chance of starting that car up. If it doesn't start up, it's because it's missing an engine. We're not going to refund you. That's what college is. Spend $80,000 thinking for something that you're going to get working. And then you know what, it doesn't work too bad, you start to pay $80,000.

Dude, that is the truth, right?

And that's like, it's, that's why I dropped out. I don't like, I think college has its like, place in our society. I think college is important, I think education is important. I just don't think the current decision making leading up to going to college is right. And people don't understand that. People think that they're just letting the society make a decision for you when you can easily have the resources to take the action into your own hands. Whether or not you want to do social media or real estate or crypto or whatever, right? But you know people, it's a default. They just want to spend four more years of partying, drinking, having fun because that's the default thing that everybody does.

I love you brought that up too because like, especially where I'm from, bro, it's like so many people are undecided that like, that's the only thing to do, you know. And like people, I feel like for us and like for me, like learning from time, learning from all these people, it's like people just aren't like opened up to new opportunities because the school system doesn't even fathom bringing up those topics, which is like the topics that can help you get to where you want to go, you know, is the biggest example.

Like I'm doing credit right now. I don't know anybody that graduates high school or graduates like college that knows how to just take credit into their own hand. I don't know people that can take out a mortgage, how to buy a car, how to like, you know, the most basic thing, how to file your taxes. Like I know so many people, the most basic tax form W2. You should be able to do that. I know so many people that don't even know how to do that. That's not even getting into advanced stuff. That's just like the most basic tax form. There's hundreds, thousands of tax forms out there that like, you know, that essentially it's what we should we need because the government asks us to pay these taxes, but we graduate high school not knowing how to do that. But hey, I know what an isosceles triangle looks like. And you know, I know what physics, like, whatever formula I learned in physics, or actually I. Because I lose that information three weeks after I take the test anyway. So I end up leaving school with nothing. Right. You take the midterm and like three, I guarantee you go to college. You ask anybody, like, three days after the final if they can retake that test and still get the same score. I promise you they can. Because they're not learning information a way that's retained in their head. They're learning information because they're just cramming and cramming and cramming. I can go take a corporate finance class right now and pass it because I did corporate finance, like, for my own company for three months. And I knew that if I was going to fail corporate finance, my company's going under. So, like, I had to do it in the real world. And that is knowledge that I retained. I retained credit because I did it every single day, not because. Right. I didn't memorize. If I, If I took. If I learned about credit in a, in a college course, I probably would forgot it three days after a midterm.

Dude, I love that you say that too, because, like, I'm still in high school and it's like, it is, dude, it's the truth, man. Like, I'm taking all these physics tests and, like, just. I'm taking them. But it's like. And even like, the fact that like, like it's information that is literally two seconds away from Google. Like, Right. It's a factual information point that, like, isn't so much relevant to a physical trait or skill that is actually applicable to what you're doing.

Yep. Teach people how to learn. Teach people how to motivate themselves. Teach people how to make decisions in life. That's stuff that's important. Right. But people leave school just as another Alexa or Siri. I have a Siri over there, and she can answer any question that, like, you know, you're asking your, your kids to memorize. Like, I asked Siri, like, What? What, like, what formula is for, like, gravity or something? They'll pull up Wolfram Alpha.

I'll get an answer like, yeah, before I don't want to be a Siri.

I don't want to be a Siri. I can buy Siri. Siri cost me $200 to buy new home mods or whatever, right? The series on my phone, like, it's series like worthless. Like, you know, you don't want to be worthless. Don't be expendable in today's society because that's not something you want to be. That's how you, you know, that's how you become nothing. And I don't think you guys want.

To be nothing for sure, man. Well, dude, we just got some fire. I'm sure a lot of people took some golden nuggets out of that, man. And like I said earlier, all of Steven's links to everything social media company websites will all be done below. But Stephen, where's like the best place for people to if they want to get in touch with you or ask you a question on social media?

Best way. I check my Instagram DMs almost every day and I check Snapchat often. So if you don't see, if I don't reply, just keep sending stuff in because like, you know, it'll get like pushed out. Keep sending stuff in. I open in at least four or five times a day, so I'll eventually at one point we'll be able to see your message and leaving comments in my post. That's also another thing I always see Casey leaving comments in my on my post and I always see there. So you know, that's the best way to reach me.

Well, cool, man. Well, everyone listening, appreciate you tuning in to the Rise of the Young podcast. Make sure you drop a review, share it with a friend. I'm sure a lot of you listening that are young weren't too familiar with credit and the tips and tricks that Stephen talked about. So make sure to share it with someone that could actually value from this, whether that be your parents, your brother, your sister, your aunts or uncles, whoever, because credit is something that I feel like and I'm sure you would agree that isn't talked about enough in society. So that being said, everyone, I appreciate you tuning in to the Rise of Young podcast and I will catch you guys on the next episode.

Monarch Legacy of Monsters An Apple Original Series the world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place face, it's not ours, believe me. The most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

My God.

Go.

Monarch Legacy of Monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV Plus.