Episode 069: Jake Kassan - MVMT Lifestyle, Watches & Accessories Brand

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What's going on, everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome to the Rise of the Young podcast. Today we have Jake Kasson, someone I'm super pumped up to have on this show. We've been going back and forth for the last couple of months trying to make this happen and we're actually making it happen here in LA in person. And it's a pleasure to have you on the show, man.

Yeah, man, thanks. Appreciate it.

Yeah. First thing I want to start with just before we dive into your story and everything is just who is Jake? What have you been up to for the people that may not know what you're building or anything like that.

Yeah, I'm 27 years old, live here in Los Angeles, California. For the last five years I've been building MVMT. We're watching accessories brand to simplify it more. So we're a lifestyle brand and you know, for the last five years we've built this brand through direct to consumer for the most part. You know, accessibly priced watches was really kind of our goal out the gate. For myself, it was more so, you know, I love fashion and wanted to get behind something that I could really build and, and be passionate about. My other businesses that I've had when I was a little younger weren't, weren't really passion projects. I just kind of fell in my lap. So this was my first chance to do something that I actually could be proud of and do for a long period of time. And yeah, essentially launched in 2003 when I was dropped out of college. Broke college kid trying to figure out What I was going to do with my life. Some kind of, kind of where you're at in your life. And I had some background in E commerce so I figured that I can, I can launch this online with minimal capital. I only had really a credit car with $5,000 of, you know, limit to use. And that was really kind of how I started the business back.

Day one, crazy man. So catch up now. I walked in the office and it's freaking phenomenal. The layout's insane. Obviously it's been a success. So when it comes to movement, right, just the brand in total and the entirety of it, what's been the growth when it comes to starting out? You said it's been in business for five years. Where are you guys at now? Just so we can kind of give the audience some back end insights to like what we're working with.

Yeah. So started off year one, we launched on Indiegogo. We raised $300,000 again I only had $5,000 of basically credit card limit to use, so had no really capital. If I wasn't, if we couldn't successfully fund an Indiegogo, I was willing to go and work nine to five, do whatever I could to pay it off, move back with my parents, do whatever I needed to do. Our first year we ended up. So we raised $300,000 which was just pre orders, right. Basically you get samples of a watch, you throw it or any physical product you throw it on Indiego, which has traffic and customers and you can basically tell your story, tell your pitch as to why they should believe in you and essentially pre order a product that hasn't been mass produced yet. So I had six samples and we photographed them, we made the video. You know, I went to Costco and got a video camera, I got a mic return both those things a week later. Like it was very, very lean. Bootstrapped. Yeah, yeah. Couldn't really afford to do it any other way. So it had no marketing budget, nothing. So we had spent the time kind of learning how to hack and grow through Kickstarter, Indiegogo, crowdfunding. So we were able to like get to $300,000 of revenue.

Before you started?

Before I really started, but because I spent so much time like studying the ins and outs and I guess you don't really believe it at the time I was kind of like, do I believe that? Like do I actually know something that the majority of people don't understand? Like I'm spending time studying this, but what's the chances that I'm actually figuring out something that like no one else understood. And what I went back and realized is that a lot of people were doing the college route or were too old to understand it was still a niche. It was still a new platform. Crowdfunding was new. So I was still an early adopter and understood things. I was an expert in such an early adopter type of, you know, platform. So first year we ended at a million dollars. Then we went from 1 to 7 million to 30 to 60 to 80. And then, you know, this year we're looking to do somewhere around 100 million. So all completely bootstrapped. We have a very lean team. There's about 35, 36 people. We actually just got a. One of our new employees started today. So we're slowly, slowly hiring and growing. But yeah, it's been, it's been, you know, first couple years, first six months were out of my parents house. You know, Kramer, my business partner was in San Diego, his parents house. We were talking about where we wanted to move. LA was the spot. So we moved to LA about a year into the business. Then the next three years were in our. Sorry. The next two years or year and a half, we were in a apartment in Venice. And then fast forward a little bit more. We got a little office where we probably had 15 people. And now the office we're sitting in today, we only have about 36 people. But definitely room to scale, as you can see.

Dang, that's insane. So how old were you when you were. You started. Just so we can fill the audience when you raised that 300k, I think.

I was about 21. Okay, yeah, 21 years old.

So prior to that, when it comes to crowdfunding, obviously that was your first crowdfunding campaign you did or what?

I had a little bit of experience. I did another one and then I helped actually kind of consulted is what I call it with Crame on some other projects that he had done and he had launched a few others like while he was in college. So I was just close to the platform the entire time.

Okay, you knew what's up with there?

I knew generally what was up. Like again, I studied it. Yeah, it was what I was. We wanted to figure it out and I kind of solved the puzzle.

So that's so dope. So when you started it raised 300k. Did you say, you said you dropped out of college?

I dropped out of College in 19. So it was pretty before that.

You dropped out before this entire thing started.

Ye.

Okay, so where did you go to college? Like what Was that entire transformation, high school to college. I have a lot of young listeners. And I also graduated high school, like, three weeks ago. So, like, well, what were you doing from, like, 17, 18, high school graduate to then dropping out? Like, what was that transformation like?

Yeah, so I never really had a job in, like, a real. Like, I never really understood, like, I mean, I definitely wasn't motivated to. I was. I was like, my parents, you know, we weren't wealthy, but, you know, my parents. I didn't need to find a job until maybe I was, like, 16, 17 years old. That was when, like, my parents, like, okay, we're not. We're not going to just give you money to go to movies or do whatever you're doing.

I feel you.

So, you know, when I. When I turned 17, I was like, okay, I need a job. My dad's pressuring me to get a job, get a job. And I just didn't. There was no motivation, Like, I wasn't stoked to go work at, you know, an ice cream store or whatever, like, what all the other kids were doing. And what happened was I was on ebay with my buddy, and I found this T shirt that, like, lit up to music to sound.

I've seen that.

Yeah, they're called electroluminescent T shirts, and no one was selling them. I found them on ebay. It was, like, the coolest thing I've ever seen. This is when no one had seen these things. So I bought one thing, and now it's probably gonna look like shit or too good to be true. I get it. And it was pretty cool, like, you know, playing music on my phone, and it went up and down the music. And I talked to my dad about it, and I was like, what if I sold these? Would you give me a little loan? And he said, sure, I'll give you a little loan. But if you don't sell through it, like, if you don't sell the product you buy, then I'm taking your car away. And it was a car he gave me, so it wasn't much of a threat. But still, like, I wanted a car, so I had to sell this stuff. And I got 200 of them, spent a few thousand dollars on. On basically the order, found a supplier in Alibaba. First time ever using Alibaba. This was like, early Alibaba. This is like.

Because that was like, a main conversation, I feel, like, on Instagram nowadays. So you're like, you an early adopter to this whole.

Oh, yeah. I mean, this is like 2006 yeah.

Yeah. That's freaking. I was 6, bro.

And I. I. So I order these T shirts, and I'm like, okay, now I have to sell them, right? I didn't have my life. I think. I don't. I didn't have my license yet or something. Or, like, I was still waiting. I can't remember. But my buddy. I convinced my buddy to drive me down to Santa Monica. It was summertime, and 3rd Street Promenade was, like, one of the more touristy places that I knew that I figured I could walk around and not get yelled at to, like, sell something. So we both bring backpacks and fill them up with T shirts. And I just walk through with my T shirts on because they lit up and just. I'd have people come up to me and, like, point, and I'd have to sell them and talk to people. And long story short, I sold through all 200 T shirts, made enough money to not only buy more, but also invest in a website. And one of the questions I always got was, like, what's your website? I want to buy them online.

Yeah.

I want to see what else you have. And I never had a website or knew how to make a website, so it was like, okay, that's what I need to figure out, right? So that was kind of next step, and I built a website. And. And then, like, you know, I was getting one order a week, which was good, but it was like, okay. I built. Spent all this time on this website, like, what's next? And I realized I have to bring people to the website to drive traffic and not having any money. Like, you know, AdWords is probably going on at the time, but no one's. No one's typing in. This wasn't an intent product. This wasn't a product that you're looking to buy because people didn't know it exists. So I needed to go and figure out a way to market myself. And I made a. I saw Kanye West. He went live on a. Or he did a performance at, like, the MTV Music Awards in 2007 or something, and it was Love Lockdown, his song. And I basically took my video camera, plugged it in the TV, recorded the first 15 seconds, made a YouTube clip of him for the first six seconds saying, you know, starting the song. Yeah, I titled the YouTube clip, like, Unreal release, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Performance. Yeah.

And then six seconds into it, it's me with my T shirt going, yo, check out the T shirt. My name's Jay. Blah, blah, here's the company. And those videos got like, the first video got like a million views. And then I just started mass producing. Adele would come out or like, you.

Had a strategy, new song.

Yeah. And this is just before, like, YouTube even had, like, knew what was like, they were dealing with a spam kind of issue like this. And so I just ran with it and that just evolved into another business. And then I ended up having a retail store in a mall and eventually dropped out because this business had evolved over five years into a new business that was making me six figures a year. And I didn't know what that meant. Like, basically my parents, my mom helped me with the bookkeeping, and then all I did was like, marketing E commerce and like, what I enjoyed. And she helped me with the shipping too. I did some of the shipping for a while. We hired people. But that was kind of like, before even getting to college. I had this like, okay, dope.

So that was in high school.

That was kind of in high school, transitioning into college. And then I went all in about, like, when I was like, I don't know, 19 years old and left Santa Barbara for six months to go open a store. And then like, fast forward, I ended up getting put out of business by a kid who. He was on Shark Tank. He had graduated college. Like, he was all in. And I was kind of like on the fence of like, still wanting to be a kid, have fun yet having this business that I wasn't really passionate about the industry, but it was just like something I was making money.

Yeah.

With. And so that was kind of like where I learned a lot just in general about E commerce.

Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely. You had experience before, like, launching this whole, like the movement thing. It was like. So that was a five year, like, process of the. That was your main focus. Like, that's how you're making money. That's like where your time was and all that sort of stuff.

Yeah, I mean, it was my life, you know, that. That was like the talking dope.

Right.

And I never really had. So I never had that job in. In high school because this was actually paying the bills or, you know, able to allow me to kind of live. And the first job I ended up having was I got this valet job when I was like, 20. It was my last year. I still lived in. In Santa Barbara where I went to college. I went to college at SBCC for a year, but I still lived in Santa Barbara because I wanted the best of both worlds to have fun and network and just like, enjoy life. But I wasn't going to School. So I was just paying random there. But my, my dad didn't have money to pay for me so I had to go get a job. So I got this job doing valet. I was driving like Ferraris and BMWs and you'd have like aventadors rolling and you're just like damn. Like who are. I remember writing down the last names of people and like looking them up and being like, how did this guy do what he, he's done? And like, and just kind of like trying to like figure out what I wanted to do with my life. And I was making 18 bucks an hour. Like you'd make, you know, you get people throwing you 20 bucks for pulling up a car. And there was a good job, but I fucking hated it.

Yeah.

Which was so weird because everyone else around me loved it. This is like, this is the best job in college.

He's driving foreigners around, parking them in full.

It wasn't a tough job. You stand around when a car pulls up, a nice car, you go, you drive it back and you get to drive in nice cars. They had like a cafeteria with great food. Like it was not a bad gig. And like you know, you'd have Michael Jordan show up, Justin Bieber would show up, Kobe Bryant. Like it was a good, it was a five star hotel. The best college job you can get. And yet I absolutely hated it. And I had to disconnect with everyone I worked with. And that was when I actually really realized. I remember telling my dad this is how I know I'm gonna do something on my own. Because I hate this so much. Like and that's, that's just not a normal thing for you know, a 20 year old kid. That job that's paying him good money.

And should be awesome. Yeah. Okay, so what was from like the five year window of like doing all the teachers and stuff? Like what's your parents standpoint? Like do they come from like are they entrepreneurs? Like were they like what are you doing? Like until you started making money? But like what was your parents intake on that? Because I get questions all the time. Like, especially for me, like last year I think I missed like 40 days of school just traveling. People were like oh, like how do you get your parents to do like let you do that? And I always like to ask people like from you, like having a business kind of going out of high school, like what was your parents standpoint?

So I'm probably a lucky one in the sense where my parents are pretty. My dad, my dad's definitely an entrepreneur. Heart he started. He started a couple of businesses. Nothing that's been, like, explosive and, like, has taken off a ton. But in his business, actually one of. He had a business for 20 years doing, like, credit reports, and it went under with the economy in 08. So was it 08 or 07 or. He was even struggling a little bit before that. But I basically saw, you know, comfortable living from a family to, like, we're not taking vacations. We're not getting out anymore. Like, we're struggling. So I saw that and just realized, like, there is no really in anything. Security whether. And there's. I had friends, parents who lost jobs. Right. So whether you own your own business or not, like, there's. There's not, like, security forever. You just have to be careful. And so just something I saw, and it made me determined to go. And we basically, like, ran through a lot of, like, savings just to support the family. So it's always been a goal to, like, help them and retire them at some point. But my dad was an entrepreneur, so he was very supportive. My mom was always very supportive. She saw what I was doing. Yeah, I think they definitely wanted me to finish high school. There was no reason for me not to be able to finish high school, so. So they were like, do that when it came to college. Like, they were supportive over what I wanted to do. But what I saw very quickly was like, the second my business went under, it was like, get your shit together now.

Right?

Like, you're in the real world. Figure it out. And I was always like, well, I want to start something else. So I don't know. There was, like, support, but they're worried, so they kind of want to, like, push. Like, there's definitely a point in time where my parents were worried and didn't necessarily know if I was motivated enough or had the work ethic, because it was. It was actually really interesting. Me and my dad had a very different. We have a different type of work ethic. Like, for my. For. I had these glow in the dark T shirts as an example. And my dad would go and he build this contraption for. I could go and spray paint this glow in the dark shirt. These regular T shirts with glow in the dark paint.

Yeah.

And make them glow in the dark. And, like, it was. It was just. It was part of the business I had. Right. And he built this whole thing out of, like, he was a craftsman. Like, he just loved shit like that. And I'm not. I'm more of like, a techie. Like, I like the computers, social Media. Like, that's how my mind thinks. And, and I, and I just remember, like, not that we would get in fights, but like, I could see he would think that there was a lack of motivation because I didn't like going out and like spray painting these, these T shirts.

Yeah.

What I liked was like the marketing. I like the creative side. I like the strategy. And like what I ended up doing is I found a supplier in Asia to outsource all of the dirty work in manufacturing. Like, why should I be doing that in the States when I can go and pay someone else to do that? And they did it better and they packaged it and like when I was doing, I took over my parents garage and like, it was just like the worst experience. So. And I've had a lot of instances like that with my dad and I've just realized that like, we're different. He, he's the type of guy who likes to do it himself because that's what he enjoys. And that's fine for me. I'm definitely more of like, I just want, I like to delegate and continue to grow. Like, that's just the way my mind works. I, I don't think I enjoy doing one thing for a long period of time specifically. Like, I like doing different things. I like, I like being in movement and growing movement, but I've done so many different things within movement that it's been interesting. So there, there's, there's definitely times where we butt heads, but I think at the end of the day, like, they're very supportive in what I wanted to do and. But there was pushback at times too. So you just kind of have to like, you know, work it. I don't know that my parents ever, the first year, I don't even know if that they were all bought in on moving. Right. Even doing a million, million dollars. I don't know that they were like, saw the vision yet.

Okay.

To give you perspective. So you still kind of have like, okay, but when are you going to, when are you going to start consulting or like for a while I was like, I'm going to help other people build their, you know, companies on Kickstarter.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think my dad was more excited about that for a bit than he was of actually, you know, launching movement into whatever my belief was because he. It was hard for that, like the older generation to understand how you're going to build a watch company or any company, like fashion company at that.

Yeah.

That didn't connect. But I obviously saw something through social media.

Yeah.

And the way people interacted with movement early on.

So that's dope, bro. I'm glad we touched on that, man. I think a lot of young people are just. They let their parents. Some people are like, yeah, my parents are like super negative towards it. Like, what would you give someone that's like, they don't have the support? Because I mean, I totally agree with you that my parents are the supportive type. But it's also like, what if that. Or what if this, you know, so like, what would you tell to some young person that's like, he's passionate as hell about what he's doing, but like, he just has no in house support from his family at all?

Yeah, I mean, I think you got to use it as motivation. Right? Like, it's hard and it's hard for me to relate entirely. I know there were times where like, me and my parents, for sure, but like, we had, we. There was like, definitely early days where we were like arguing. Like, I got. They kicked me out of the house for a couple days. Like, I don't remember why, but like, it was like some like, stuff like that and nothing serious. Like, I have a great relationship, my parents, and it was never bad, but there were times where like we had, we had huge disagreements on life. And so I. And I think I used that as motivation. I used the fact that like, I was never good in school and like, and I almost felt like I was kind of being talked down to by not just my parents, but like, by society. Like, like, you're not. They just felt like I wasn't good enough. I wasn't doing it right. I wasn't doing it right. And at the end of the day, like, I just wanted to be happy. And being happy wasn't going a route that. And I'm not one of those people that can be miserable, like, live miserably.

Yeah, right.

Like, I hated my job doing valet. I ended up quitting after a year because I just couldn't take anymore. And, and so, so I think for, for people, first off, try and surround yourself with other people who, who have accomplished what you're trying to accomplish. So if it's other entrepreneurs or if you're. Or if maybe you don't know what you want to accomplish, it just go surround yourself with different people and get different, you know, kind of opinions on it. Because what I found is like, my dad was successful in his own craft. I have friends and family and other, you know, people who are successful in their own industry. But it doesn't mean that they're going to give me good ideas about movement or understand what I'm doing for sure. And I think that's where I found like, I guess I kind of got confused for a while because I would go and talk to different. All I wanted to do is talk to someone successful. Right. Like even driving valet, like whenever someone came up, I'd want to pick his brain about something. But for what I'm doing today in E commerce and building this lifestyle brand, there's not a lot of people who could probably give me good input on what I'm doing here for my brand.

So cutting edge.

Yeah. So it's just a different business model. And so what I found is like a lot of times I talk to really successful people, but it's just they were just on different like wavelengths in that degree. So I don't know, I would just push people to like, use it as motivation because I think that'll actually drive you harder than the next guy. Like a guy whose parents are cool and supportive and they're like comfortable versus someone who's trying to prove it and make it in the world. Like I almost think that you have an edge to work harder. So I would just, you know, use it as motivation and I think it'll help the long run.

Dope though. Well, I want to talk about movement. So like you're bringing up social media, all this sort of stuff. And I remember in the interview you did with Gerard Adams, you talked about different influencers and growing and obviously like if you look at the movement page now on Instagram, like one of the most. Just the contents, dope as hell. You're working with two ass people. So like, I want to bring it back because obviously like 2018, social media, Instagram, everything's popping right. Like it's the thing to do now. I hear all the time, like the E commerce thing is blowing up industry wise. Right. The Shopify scene. So like you were cutting edge to all this stuff regarding just building a brand and really having suppliers out in different countries, but then actually building a brand around it. So like when you first started the Instagram page, like social media wise, was that the primary like marketing strategy from the day one or like what was the intent, social media wise, when you started?

Yeah, I mean it was. There wasn't like, it's funny that the people compare. Like, oh was easier back then versus like it's too saturated now. Like everyone's doing it. And I think there's. There was different struggles. Like back then it was no one knew where to go. Right. It was like Twitter. You didn't have Snapchat at the time. You had Facebook. That. That still, like, the fan pages were still a thing. It wasn't like, people were still on Facebook a lot more. Instagram was kind of like, brands weren't really on there that much. I wasn't in need. And for us, it was just like we were trying to figure out where we wanted to go and, like, what made sense. So for us, it was like, you know, I started. We did a lot on Facebook early on, and I saw Facebook really work. We did giveaways. We communicated with people like Fate. I was on Facebook every single day more than I was on Instagram for the first year. And that helped build the business. And then. And I really just relied on, like, where our customers were, like, wherever they were. I was gonna. I was gonna talk to them. And. And then, you know, we were like, okay, well, we're a visual brand. Like, you know, and we didn't have enough content to do Instagram quite well yet. So I think it took about six to 12 months before people had their watches, they were taking pictures. We're like, okay, now we can start Instagram and actually get people here. So then we started doing that and, like, building the Instagram just organically. Like, we weren't doing any influencer marketing still. Even in year one, no influencer marketing. It was just, you know, posting pictures, talking to the fans, doing giveaways. Yeah, just trying to. Just experimenting and seeing culture.

Like, building a culture.

Exactly. And we had Twitter at the same time. But I quickly realized, like. And also just kind of like common sense. A tweet. You know, tweets are more like real time. Like, as you tweet, they're there and then they're gone. Where Instagram was a more visual, like, you know, however, the algorithm worked. Like, you see it longer. So for. For us, it was like, okay, Instagram made sense.

And.

And then I think year two is when we started to see some people who we thought, okay, what? Because our fans are posting content, and we're like, oh, this is awesome. We're getting people to post content for free because they love what we're doing. What if we went and, like, worked with this, you know, influencer and. Yeah, or photographer, whoever, and. And we go to wine and they'd be like, yeah, sure. I mean, I haven't been paid before, but if you guys want, like. And we just dictate, like, what we wanted to pay people.

Yeah. There was no limit.

There was boundary yeah, and it was a small. I mean, you know, it wasn't like there weren't, you know, Instagram just announced there's a billion people using a platform. There wasn't a billion people using the platform back then. I think it was like sub 200 million at the time. But still early. Yeah, it's still early, but it was still big. And so we found momentum there. But, you know, we. We kind of invented the game and like, it worked. There wasn't a long period of time where influencer marketing, where we were there and influencer marketing was just crushing it. Like, we were doing good for a while, but we were still a small company, so we didn't have the money or the inventory to go and spend. Like, we spend more today than we do back then. Like, we just couldn't have. So, yeah, it was a good way to get started. I still think those opportunities are around today. They're just in different areas.

I feel. Well, that's. That's sick, man. So, like, regarding Instagram and like, when it comes to the marketing strategy, because, like, obviously if you look at the page now, it's like high quality pictures. Like you. It's like I just follow it when it's like the content is dope, you know, like stuff from the Sam's standpoint of branding. Like, when was the, I would say pivot point when it comes to like, working with influencers, to like getting the return on investment from working with them? Like, was that an instant thing or like, was it a lot of testing? Because obviously, like, the influencer marketing space now is more like highly taught, like sought after, and these big brands are working with influencers. So like, in that time it wasn't like the thing to do yet, you know. So, like, when you were doing that, like, how. How did it go within was influencers, was it like you guys tested with 20 or you guys found like five that were you like, let me send you free products and take pictures for it or like, what was the strategy when you guys started just like to fill people in a little bit?

Yeah, you know, I can't remember exactly, to be honest. I think we started working with like certain ones that I followed. I think watch specific ones. Right. Like, there was like a few watch ones out there and we were like, all right, let's work with these guys. And it made sense. Yeah. And then we saw performance, so we'd go, okay, cool, that worked.

Wow.

Holy shit. Let's go find five others. Will this work? Will that work? And then we just started testing from there and like built a strategy out internally and what worked and built relationships and, and then it was kind of like, you know, we knew what the brand represented, but didn't really have the content to go out and get it yet. So we said, could we go and pay these people to just do, you know, get content with our watches and, and, and like really build the brand. And you know, we didn't want to just post watches on our Instagram because no one wants to just follow just watches unless you're a watch nut. And so for us it was like people who liked fashion or liked, you know, a lifestyle. And for us, like, you know, it was always about kind of living life to its fullest and you know, on your own terms. So for us it was building this life lifestyle, utilizing Instagram to really showcase like what that means visually. Because it's hard to, to explain in a sentence, but when you really see it, you know, yeah, you see it on a platform, you're like, oh, this is what movement means and this is what it's all. This is what like wearing the watch represents or wearing any accessory that we sell. We've kind of pivoted to this. You know, we still call ourselves a watch and accessories brand, but really it's accessories lifestyle. Like, we don't want to just be considered a watch brand because as we have sunglasses or jewelry, like we want, it means more than just, you know, any, any product. And I think some of the best brands out there represent something more than just a physical product anyway. You look at Nike supreme ideas, like those guys sell higher purpose. Exactly. So for us, like, that's what we want to get to and where we're going, we're still early, but, you know, that's kind of like the goal of where we want to be.

Dude, I see that 100%, man, that's dope. So like, regarding accessory wise, because like you guys started strictly just watches, right? And then from that standpoint, my question I wanted to ask you, like, when it comes to accessories watches, has that always been like a passion of yours or like you've been interested in that sort of stuff or like, how did the watch scene get brought up? Like, was it something you just loved or what was it?

So, you know, I was always in the fashion and when I say that, like I wasn't like I was walking or it wasn't like I was like looking at fashion shows and stuff like that, you know, like, I liked fashion, I like to express myself. I liked accessories. Like, I liked, I liked it in that sense.

Right.

I also never had the money to even, like, I hate. I hated looking at stuff that, like, I couldn't afford. Like, I didn't really like looking at cars or stuff like that because I was like, I'm not like, I can't buy this right now. So, like, it was more of, like, it was more of like, what could I afford? What do I want to get to? And for me, I definitely love the watches. I think that it was more of, like, an accessory that I thought that there was really a lacking need in the market. Like, I looked at all the brands out there and I said, okay, I'm 20, 21 years old here, and, you know, there's not a brand that I really resonate with. Yeah, you know, there's. There's from a. From a brand perspective, Like, I just felt like they were outdated and they, like, relied on either TV ads or Macy's to, like, tell their story. You want to be like, when I bought. When I would buy a girlfriend a watch, I'd go to Macy's, hey, which one's better? This one and this one. And the girl would tell me, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she didn't know. And it was just a bad experience. I was like, the only reason I'm buying it was Michael Kors. Right? Like, the only reason I'm buying this is because, like, everyone's talking about Michael Kors right now. I don't know what they. I don't know what they stand for. The price is expensive. I don't know why it's priced that much. Like, there is. I had no connection with that. Right. So. And then there was some that, like, had a little bit more of a lifestyle feel, but it was like, to skate, surf, Right. It was action sports or, you know, there were some that were just really, really bland and, like, old school, been around for 50, 60 years. So for me, you know, when I looked at it, I liked brands like Nike. I liked brands like Supreme. It was brands that. That had this cool effect and did collabs and. And stood for something. So for me, a watch seemed like a great place to start and something that I love, too. But I knew eventually that I'd want it to evolve into something else. And really, it was just what I wanted. Like, I was building this brand for. For me and my demo. Yeah. But I wanted to make sure that it wasn't. It wasn't excluding, like, a bunch of people. I just wanted to make sure that it was, like, core to my beliefs. And then, you know, if, if, if older demos, younger demos, demos related to like the aesthetic of the watch or what the brand represents, which I think it's a pretty universal. It's this very aspirational kind of, again, live life on your own terms mentality, which I think a lot of people strive to have a lifestyle like that or even just a belief system like that.

So that's dope, man. So for people that may not know, like when it comes to the, the foundation of getting the watches and selling them, when it comes to inventory or outsourcing for fulfillment, like, how did that all play a part at the beginning? Because I think a lot of people listening, they may know what job shipping and not even job shipping, but like outsourcing and getting products from the outside of the country is. But like for when you first started, like, did you have all these products in house or was it, did you ever see them or how did that all go when it comes to like building a brand?

Yeah. So if we rewind, rewind back to my couple older businesses. Right. I shipped everything myself. I housed all the inventory. My parents living room looked like a fucking shit show.

Yeah.

I had an, like, I had to deal with all that. Right. And all those things, logistics, getting different rates, how to ship it, returns, inventory, all those things were things that I, as a, an uneducated person in that specific field had to do and it wasn't my passion. Right.

Yeah.

So what I, what I realized is like, that was not something I wanted to do this time around. Right. I wanted to do something. I wanted to focus on building the brand and not having to deal with, you know, the logistics of the back end and stuff like that. Like, let's make sure the website looks good, let's make sure social media product. Like, I wanted to do things I enjoyed, but also like things that the customer cared about.

Yeah.

And like, I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs. Now my take is, is like, I don't want to be. You want to be the best at everything you possibly can. Right. Like, I want to be the best brand, I want to be the best, have the best product, but like, I'm not going to be able to be the best fulfillment center. Right. Like there's people that are, you know, have 20 years of experience or have the capital to do whatever. Like that was not what I wanted to do. Also, physically I couldn't have done that because if I started selling, our first day we sold four watches, right?

Yeah.

And then a year later we're selling, you know, whatever is 100 watches a day, right? Or sorry, yes. Our first day we sold four, and then a year later on a day was for selling like 100. To go from that level of scale, like, me personally, would have been miserable, maybe impossible.

Yeah.

So relying on the third party, I was actually able to grow without feeling those growing pains myself. So that was something that I learned quickly. And we've outsourced different areas from that. Our website, like, we had a third party agency help with the development and building that out, rather than me having to hire a developer. Yeah, Whole nother thing is you have to hire a developer and then there's a designer. And like, what if you hit that developer's peak? Like, do you fire them?

Do you keep them?

And it's a salary too. Like, you just don't want to deal with that. So I, I tend to say outsource in the areas that, that either like, need a level of expertise or infrastructure to build and then focus on like the most important pieces of the business, which I always considered to be the brand, the product. Now if the products, like if you're building a, you know, an app or something, then maybe you want someone in house because that's your product. But for us, it was a physical good manufacturing was, was outsourced with that. That made sense for us. Like, we're not gonna open a manufacturing facility. And then we, the, the main places again were like, we focused on the marketing side. So I taught myself Facebook. I taught myself certain areas where I, I wasn't an expert in, but I had to learn so I could outsource it eventually, whether it's hiring someone at one point or finding an agency. So I think marketing is a very important, like, that's, that's the lifeblood of how you scale a business. Right. Like, how do you, how do you get people to your website? And if you don't know what you're doing, then you can't control or manage someone to do it for you because you don't know how to, how to tell them if they're doing a good or bad job.

Yeah.

I have people telling me, like, even successful companies today, like, I think that's one of the issues. I see people find a level of success with Facebook or some type of marketing tactic and like, oh, my guy's an expert, like, he's doing a good job.

Yeah.

But they're not an expert. So it's hard for them. It's hard for them to tell.

Right.

And I don't want to, like, step on people's toes. But I tend to believe that like people don't have, they think they have experts, but they don't.

Yeah, I get it for sure. That's dope. So when it comes to, I know we touched on earlier when it comes to like scaling, obviously, like this freaking office is so dope now, but like moving back in time, like from an individual standpoint, like what was the thought process of scaling? Did you have an angle of having an office like this or like what was your intent when it comes to scaling? Because I think the question I want to ask like specifically is like when it comes to building an in house team, a culture, I think nowadays a lot of people, they'll just do a lot of stuff in their laptop. They don't have that peer to peer interaction on a daily basis from like an in house team standpoint. So like what's been your, I would say strategy or style to building a team, developing a real culture in house, like how did that play a part and really what was the struggles and obviously successes from all that stuff.

Yeah. I think you have to decide early on what you, what you're doing. Like this for your business. Yeah. Are you doing it because you want to be able to work remote and travel and go on vacation and have a team that's remote? Yeah, some people love that. Like, that's what they want.

Is it?

Like for me, my, my goal is like, I want to grow a big company. Yeah, I want to grow. I want to see movement, have stores. I want to see, you know, I want to see this lifestyle brand turn into a brand that's respected, like a Nike or Adidas. Like, yeah, I want, that's where I want it, want and wanted it to go back then, I think. So that was the big picture in the back of my head. But like I wasn't going to like put all the puzzle pieces together because I just, things change. I don't know where, how I could have like thought exactly like the roadmap. But knowing that was the goal. It was like, okay, we need to get an office. Yeah, we need to get. I want to hire people. I want to hire people who are here and have that same thought process. Not people who are like, oh, I could work from home. This is cool. It's a cool startup.

It's easy.

I want people who wanted to build this the same way I wanted to build it. So you get a team of people who are on the same mentality as you and the same belief. And you talk about your belief with them. I think it's important as the founder vocalizes, like, where they see the vision. And you don't have to be overly vocal if you're still like figuring stuff out. But, you know, I think everyone knew that, like, where we were going and that we enjoyed growing it because some companies, all my money that I've made goes back into the business I reinvested to grow where some people are very, you know, they want a more comfortable lifestyle, which is totally fine, but like, they're taking money out of their company and, and to live off of more. Yeah. Have a more, you know, comfortable life where we don't have any outside capital. So it was like, we want to grow, we want to grow. We want to see this become the company we want it to be. So just two different ways to look at it. I think from a culture standpoint, it's really simple for me. I just make sure that I genuinely like the people they obviously talented and everything there. But yeah, I'd rather find someone who's like, overly. Who, Who I can really relate with. Have a conversation. Yeah. Like, sit across the lunch table and have lunch with and talk with, like, I want a genuine good person. I know that sounds crazy, but like, that's, that's been our, that's been our motto. Yeah, that's been our like, culture, how we, how we check people for culture and. Yeah, just making sure. And I mean, obviously we want people who are talented, but there's been times where maybe we passed on people who were, were, you know, the most talented candidate because the culture just wasn't right and you just have to be careful and Yeah, I think we have a really good team. We really haven't had a ton of like, turnover, which is really, really rare for a business that's been in for five years, especially in our space. And being in LA is tough too, because it's really competitive. Yeah, there's a lot of like, good companies out here. So I think everyone really enjoys what they're doing. Everyone has that heart, hard work ethic and is motivated by like, being a disruptive brand. And yeah, just genuinely.

I get it. That's dope. That's freaking. That's so sick. So when it comes to the question of when you hire, is it no college degree? College degree? Does that even play a picture as a CEO? Because I think a lot of people, young people, it's like if you're hiring people or you're someone that's looking for a job even, it's like, how does that process look in 2018 from a CEO that has a massive company.

Yeah. So it's funny because I don't have a college degree and I still like to put on the back of my, or on, on our job racks I'll still put like, you know, requires a bachelor degree. But here's my thought on that is if you're hungry enough, like you're going to reach out if you want the job, if you want to work somewhere and that's actually, it's almost like a barrier to entry. It's like if you're not going to, if you're not going to just apply because of something on paper that it says, then maybe like you shouldn't work here. So I almost want people to be hungry. And I think that's how you have to be. Like, you don't take no for an answer. Yeah. Like ask it if. Yeah, exactly. Get in contact. So at first I was like, this is like, it's against kind of what I represent. But now I'm kind of like, you know, and, and there's people here who don't have college degrees for sure. But I just think it was like an important thing to be like, if you're hungry enough, you'll make it work, you'll figure it out.

That's dope. That's unique. So I have a couple more questions for you, man. So like in regards to just like current day to day, like catching them up to speed with like the current operation, not so much looking back but like when it comes to your day in and day out, I always like to talk about like what does your average day look like when you wake up, come in the office? Because I have, obviously it's like you have a, you have a hq. Like what does your days look like? Just on average.

Yeah. So it's changed a lot and I think it's will always continue to change.

Yeah.

Yeah. Year one and two was.

Me.

Year one, two and three were actually me just like owning everything figured out. Right. Like you gotta work harder than the next guy.

Yeah.

You're fighting to stay alive. Like you don't. Like it's just hustle time. Right. And I was like all in, heads down, like, just wanted to grow. I touched everything from manufacturing to like knew what was going on with customer service, to production to marketing, to hiring people. Like it was all to insurance. Like just every, anything that like the company needed. I was, you know, I, I was going in and out of like, like even the bookkeeping stuff. Like you're touching everything, right. And then you, then you start to Hire people and like you get some help and. And then I was like more so like, I was like, okay, I'm gonna really grow this business through E commerce, through like marketing. Still heavily involved in product. And then as I've hired people, even like we did $30 million and I was still running like a lot of like I was still involved in all the decisions, marketing decisions. I was basically CMO CEO, like doing both of both worlds and, and then we hired a CMO who came on and, and I kind of went through this phase where I stopped like touching every single piece of marketing. I was still involved, but I didn't have ownership if something went on the website. I didn't necessarily know. Every time I went on where before it was like if a picture changed, I knew like I was on the. It was just a weird process to like see this change. And, and it taught me a good lesson because you know, I hired someone who has been doing it for a long time, is definitely, you know, smarter in the sense of like understanding how to, to build out marketing models and build, you know, through acquisition and TV and everything else that we're doing. So much more talented and knew how to like manage team better. But the vision was still important and still being connected was still important. So that, that was something that I definitely learned to like delegate but still be involved and be the visionary there. And so now my days change where like I actually don't have direct ownership of like any day to day piece or even like, you know, I have people who, who report to me but, and tell me what's going on and I'm in and you know, we have slack and I'm still involved in talking to people but as the company grows like I've delegated more and more where you know, I come to work and it's more of like thinking about like what's next, where we're going. Like being involved in, in big decisions, talking through stuff. Like I'm still involved and understand what's going on. But it's. I try and do things that only a CEO or only a founder can really do, which is you know, networking with other founders. Like I, for sure I've learned more from networking with other founders than really any book has ever taught me. Like sitting and talking with a founder, being like, hey, have you, have you done this? Or like what do you think about this? Yeah. And then them giving me input has saved me millions of, from not making mistakes. And I've also made millions from, from just hearing this advice and then, and then running with it. So 100, like. And that's something that, like, maybe only a CEO can give back to another CEO, because it's that level of, you're in the same boat. I'm in the same boat. Transparency, dude, versus someone else in my team just going in and having a coffee with another CEO. It's. It's a little different. So I try and do the things that, that only a founder can do and just strategy overall, like where the business is going, where we're headed. So I still love the marketing side of things.

Yeah.

But I've just realized that if I'm gonna grow this thing, I have to be more visionary and delegate to a lot of other people.

That's it, man. So, like this man, like, I have its podcast so I can sit down with more people for the intent of asking them questions, but then sharing it with the audience, you know, saying one that's literally my, like, I don't monetize it. It's just straight the intent of sitting down and say, like, no, it's. I totally resonate with you, man.

It's a great way to network and talk to people and like, you're learning and the relationships you can build from having, I mean, you get, you get a reason to have an hour or two long conversation.

Exactly.

It's a great, you know, way in the door. And.

Yeah.

And I think it's. And it'll. You'll. You'll look back at this and go, wow, that podcast actually, like, changed my life in a sense more than anything else.

So. For sure, man. So I have a question that's sort of near the ending point of this whole interview is just when it comes to moving forward, in a sense, when it comes to, like, you as a person, daily habits, whatever. Are you the type of person that's more like, obviously outward looking, or is it more day in and day off focused on the nitty gritty, like one day at a time sort of outlook or what's meaning, like, are you more like in the moment now, like, let's get this done, but then have that outside vision or focusing on the outside vision and then having the team kind of catch up to speed on the day in and day out.

That's a good question, dude. I mean, I think, I think it's a combination of both. You know, there's things that we have to do today to get to tomorrow. So it's kind of, you know, we have just big. It's kind of, we have a, you know, few years of like, where we want the company to be like, we know where we want to go, right? But I think it's important that we execute well today to get there. And we're not at a point yet. We're like, like, it's still very, like, there's still a ton of involvement for me and Kramer, my co founder, to like, get there today. So but, like, we know, what if we get there today and we do it successfully and everything works, or if, like, we execute, you know, most things well, where the business is going to be in three, five years from now. So that. So it's definitely a combination of both. But it's funny because, like, until I got. We have a, you know, kind of SVP of finance now that came in here and having our cmo, like, we're thinking more like outward looking just, just to help us, like, exercise, like, how we. Where we want to grow, what. How we want to grow. So it's an interesting exercise and I think it's good because it gives you direction, but. Okay. And also, like, some things you need to plan two years ahead of time. Like, you just need to know that, like, we want to, we want to get here in two years from now because, you know something, some things take 18 months of planning or whatever it is. So for us, it's definitely a little bit of both. I can't say it's like more one or the other.

Don't, man. So last question, man, before we wrap it up, is just when it comes to your journey, like, obviously you're 27, I'm 17. So you're like 10 years ahead, right? So it's like in the standpoint of those 10 years, if you had to look back, just not even just business wise, but life wise and the tactical things that you've learned moving forward, like, what's been like two tips of advice just like that you've been able to utilize. Maybe that's daily habits or advice that you've heard from someone that you've sat down with that you think has just like, been a core value of yours that you'd like to like, instill to other people. You think?

Yeah. So the networking thing is huge, right? Whether it's forums, whether it's, it's. It's networking and education, self education. So it's podcasts. It can be books. Yeah, I like to. I like podcasts more, to be honest. Like, I actually, I used to read or listen to more. More books. I've actually slowed down and listen to more podcasts than anything because it's Just like, it's. It's. It's more. It's real time. There's no fluff. Right. Sometimes books have, like, a lot of fluff.

Yeah.

Or there's an agenda there. People are trying to sell something. Right. They're like, they made this book to sell the information.

Yeah.

Not to say that there's some great books out there, and I definitely have some that I could recommend too, but podcasts were just, like, more specific to more raw. Like, just people speaking. They don't have a chance to, like, write. Yeah.

Make it perfect.

Exactly. So that. That's a big thing at. Forums have been good, whether it's Reddit or there's a bunch of entrepreneur forums. I think going out and meeting people, taking the time to, like, go and meet other entrepreneurs, I think is really to learn that there's people who have the same way of thought as you do. You do. Like, that was one thing back then. There wasn't. There weren't you out there, like, talking, having podcasts like this. For me, I couldn't find, like, people like me, which is really weird. I was. I was kind of felt alone. Like, Kramer, my business partner, was the first person who I was like, okay, we align. Like, we're both entrepreneurs. This is weird. This is the first time I've ever seen this. And we both are college dropouts. Like, this is like the first type of thing. So. So really just networking, self education, I think is really important. I say this, which, you know, you're going to go through early stage grind, right? Where you're like, I am willing to give up, you know, going to the gym or going out and having nights with friends. And I read this quote that was like, you know, it's like, was. It was like, live a few years of your life like no one will, so you can live the rest. Like no one can.

Yeah.

And I always read that. I was like, yeah, Fuck yeah. Like, Mark Cuban talks about taking working seven years with no vacations. Gary Vaynerchuk's very, like, hardcore. Let's go. Let's do this. Like, get off. Get up off your ass. And I think that's motivating. What I've realized is I used to be contradicted and like, well, like, I. I love what they're about, but also, like, I think there's a work life balance because I went through a stage two years in where, like, I kind of crashed and burned. Two years in the movement where I was, like, had bad anxiety and, like, it was like, I. I worked too Hard or like into. I wasn't balanced. So for a bit, I kind of realized that you have to be. You have to have a balance between both and. Because if you burn out, it's going to take longer for you to get back to where you were than they're like, you know, have a work life balance. So make sure you go to the gym, make sure you eat well, make sure you take your vacations or do whatever. Whatever it is that you need to do. Some people work in different ways. Yeah, some people can go harder than others. Like, if you need to, like, I was trying to get in earliest and like, leave latest, right. And like, I didn't really care about the gym because that was like, secondary to everything else I wanted. So over the last two years, though, like, since I've kind of had those, like, the burnouts, I've been able to balance it more. And I think when I. When I look at, like, Gary Vee and Mark Cuban, those guys say the things they did because they want. And they. What they do is because they want to motivate people who are, you know, working the nine to five and realizing, okay, like, this is. I have to have that mentality. I gotta go for it, okay? And I think they always press on it a lot, but it's because they're like, motivating people who are. Who maybe aren't quite there yet, but people like us who are out there grinding. I think it's important to have a balance because otherwise if you burn out, it's a process to get out of that mindset. And it's just not something you really wish on anyone if they're going after something they're passionate about. Cause then it starts to make things like you're unhappy to a degree and then you just take two steps backwards.

Well, shit, that was a good way to end it. You heard it here, everyone. Jake Kasson. Dude, this was dope, man. I think.

Appreciate it.

That was. That was some fire shit to end it with, man. Just like. So when it comes, is that like as in just like traveling or taking a step back to actually, like, rethink and just like be just in like without all the stress. Is that what you're gonna get?

I think, like, the first two years of the business, it was like, it was everything I could have dreamed for, right? I did a million dollar. I had this goal is to do a million dollars, to make a million dollars before I was 25. And I was 20, what, 22. Or when in the business did a million dollars, okay. Check. That's awesome. I was like, what's next? Like, let's keep going, let's keep going. Like, and it was just, like, diligent. Like, I stopped listening to music in my car ride. It was only podcasts. I stopped watching tv. Like, I also stopped going to the gym. Like, I stopped doing some of the things that I enjoyed. Right. And it was just like, work, work, work, sacrifice everything else. Like, I kind of. Like, I probably didn't have great relationships with people to some degree. Like, I kind of was like, work first, work first. Like, so it's just. It was just like a lopsided balance. And I think looking back, like, it's important to have that work ethic and you're. You want to work harder than the next guy because you know he's trying to put you out of business. But I just think it's. It's important to remember that you will burn out. Everyone does. Or also, like, what are you willing to sacrifice? Because you look at some very, very successful people and they're unhappy, or, like, the family lives are bad. And it's like, you have to realize that, like, what you're willing to sacrifice. So it's hard. It's hard to say that day one when you're trying to figure it out. That's why I just say, like, it's okay to be all in and motivated and work hard, but just don't forget to, like, make sure you treat your. Your. Your body and your brain well, because you will have that moment when you're. You're close to burning out or burnt out. And.

Yeah.

And then you have to, like, pick back up from that. And picking back up, that's the harder part. Yeah, picking back up, it just takes time because you're not mentally in a good state. And.

Yeah.

So I think it's just important to think about that as you're going through your process.

Well done. Well, appreciate you coming on the show, man. Everyone make sure if you haven't already followed Jake on Instagram, his brand, the movement on Instagram, whatever that may be, all the social medias will be linked down below. Definitely check it out if you have not already, because like you said earlier with the Instagram page, man, like, the brand is some phenomenal, like, machine that you've been able to go, man, I've been following it for a while, man, so I definitely want everyone listening. If you haven't already, go check it out. And that being said, thank you so much for tuning in to the Rise of the Young podcast and I will see you guys soon. Peace.

This is a decade of devotion? It's hard to stop my movement When I'm already in motion? This ain't luck, this is by design? I hadn't worked in the dark for my light to shine? A lot of people are dope they just quit too soon A lot of rappers A lot of rappers they got rich too soon Legacy of Monsters An Apple Original series The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it. On November 17th. This place. It's not ours. Believe me. The most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

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