Fatima Zaidi - The Future of Podcasting

Legacy of Monsters An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me. The most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise. Oh my God. Go, go, go. Legacy of monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV plus hold music. You want to avoid it and so do your customers. So say goodbye to holdmusic and hello to faster, smarter support with Salesforce. Make service more personal and agents more productive using built in trusted AI. Then watch costs and wait times drop and satisfaction soar. Support customers in a whole new way with Service GPT. Learn how@salesforce.com ServiceGPT what is going on, everyone? Kasey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. On today's episode we have Fatima Zaidy here with us. Fatima is the co founder of Quill, the world's first one stop marketplace where podcasters can find vetted expert freelancers who will save them time, improve their podcast quality and help them grow their audience. She comes with over a decade of experience in scaling SO startups. As the member of the National Speakers Bureau, Fatima has spoken at various events around the world on hacking outbound sales in any industry, leading her to keynote on world stages along speakers like Gary Vaynerchuk and more recently, Richard Branson. I met Fatima on Instagram after I came across Quill and this podcast was absolutely amazing. We talked about the future of podcasting, her story, and much, much more. So before we get into the episode, please take a moment to share this episode with a friend, leave a rating and review on itunes. Every rating goes a long way, so please take 10 seconds out of your day and do that. It means the world. And with that being said, enjoy today's episode with Fatima Zaidy. What is going on, everyone? Welcome back to the show. Today we have Fatima Zaidy here with us from Quill and the Listen Conference. Thanks so much for coming on Fatim.

Thanks, Casey. It's great to be here.

So we connected, I would say, this week and I was just intrigued by everything that you've built at Quill. And for those that aren't familiar with what Quill is, I'd love for you to give a quick rundown on the software that you've built in the podcasting industry because it's quite remarkable and I'm super excited to talk about it.

Thank you. Yes, it's very exciting times in this emerging medium. So Quill is the world's first marketplace for podcasters, where, you know, if you're an indie podcaster or a brand looking to start a show or even outsource elements of your existing show, we are your one stop shop. We have both the tech marketplace side, where you can go on and hire freelancers at a range of different price points for whatever ad hoc services you might need. So very similar to Fiverr Upwork, but we also have a full service agency production house where we work with large corporate and startup brands to create their own shows. And like you mentioned earlier, we also own the Listen in conference, which is the world's first enterprise podcast event. So a few different things going on at Quill, but it's been really great to see all of the growth in this. In this medium.

Totally. No, that's amazing. And I want to ask, how did you get involved with the podcasting industry?

Well, it's definitely a very green industry. What are we at? 1.2, almost 1.5 million podcasts on Spotify. So it's definitely very new. I used to own an agency, and I would say in the last year of owning this agency, I saw a massive trend with brands moving aggressively into the podcasting space. And I think almost for 12 months, it was always, you know, me scrambling to pull together freelancers and just really getting like, in there to create really good content for brands. And eventually I was like, you know what, there's a gap in the market. So I decided to productize our services and that is how Quill was born.

Very cool. And I know that we briefly chatted about it before the podcast, but you started Quill this year in 2020, correct?

I sure did.

That is amazing. You guys have so much progress. Like, what, what was that from starting point to now? Like, where did you guys focus right when you launch and what was that launch strategy?

Like, it's so funny. Everybody plans and they plan and they plan before they launch. And I mean, who really gets to stick to their plan? At least not this year, because 2020 was a write off with the pandemic hitting. So we launched in February, and then the pandemic, everything went into lockdown March 13. So we had probably one normal month. And when I say normal, take it with a grain of salt. But it was definitely a little bit of an emotional roller coaster. We went from launching and having a few months of Runway. We were almost. We were at term sheets with investors. And then the pandemic hit and overnight we were like, okay, we have to push our conference and refund all of the tickets. And you Know, our event was supposed to be June 24, and, and everything was done. We had worked and we had done everything up to that point. We're ready to go. And then the pandemic hit. So we were like, we have to push our conference, which was going to be a large source of our capital for our first year. We realized that our investors were pulling out because of the pandemic. Everyone had been impacted. And so, you know, there's a point in March where we had a couple weeks of Runway left and we were like, is this going to be like the shortest launch and exit of a company? And what ended up happening, we just got really creative. I was like, look, I can either go out and raise capital, which could take a year in this landscape, or let's just start creating really good podcasts for brands. And, you know, with the Pandemic, I think a lot of brands started seeing the opportunity because events and videos and there's just so many content marketing tactics that had been put on hold and it was like the wild, wild west. And when we started launching the service side of our business, we decided to just funnel that revenue into the product side. And then those investors came back a few months later and we said, we actually don't need the money anymore.

Very cool. That's so awesome. And I think that's a valuable lesson there, like, for a lot of founders that are out there looking to either raise capital or they have, like, what's your experience with raising capital and what would your advice be for entrepreneurs out there that are looking to do that?

Well, I think we do a really good job of profiling and hyping up companies that manage to raise capital at the early stages of their company. But we don't nearly do enough of a good job of profiling and championing the companies that managed to bootstrap from day one. It's way harder to get scrappy and to get creative without raising outside investment. And for me, you know, I want it to be cash flow positive from day one. Like, my background in sales and for me was I don't want to raise a million dollars in seed round funding, give a huge chunk of my, my equity away, and not be in there in the trenches with my customers. I feel like when you have the money just handed to you, you're just a lot more. Less careful about spending it. And it was just, you know, I would say that if I had taken on investors in the early days, it would have been very, very like just I would have, you know, jumped the gun. I mean, now we don't need that money. And I managed to keep all of the equity and we just acquired a company. So the growth has been really great for us. And I feel like it was a huge learning experience and a blessing for me that the investors did pull out when they did because I had to reimagine and pivot in the immediate and that ended up being really good for us.

Very cool. And I know that you said you recently acquired a company and that's what obviously connected us. Origins Media House and I talked to their team, they're like, yeah, we just got acquired. I was like, that's super cool. Talk to me more about this, what this acquisition was and what it means to you.

Well, when we decided back in March that we were going to launch the agency side of our umbrella to get us through the pandemic, we were at that point only a three person team. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to pull in some of like the top podcast producer producers that I know that can work alongside us to execute on these big brands. Because the one thing that I don't have a problem with is sales and contacts. But I didn't have a team around me and I didn't want to hire a team and add so much overhead to our very new startup that had just launched. And so I reached out to the Origins House team and we'd already been working on a few projects together and had really good working chemistry. And that's where it started. We started partnering with on a lot of big projects together. And then back in May or June, I said I was at Crossroads, either I have to go out and hire an in house team or we can acquire your team. And I think they felt the same way. It was a natural next step for us. We all wanted to be a part of the same team. We all come from very different backgrounds and skill sets. We're a very diverse team. And so I think the wide array of expertise just sort of created the perfect agency for companies that didn't want to go out and spend $40,000 an episode like Pacific and Gimlet. But they had an experimental budget and wanted really good producers and creative artists and sound engineers to create a podcast for them.

Yeah, yeah, no, very cool. And regarding, like, helping launch a company's podcast, I do some of that on the side as well. When it comes to laying out the content, strategy and helping from the creative aspect, what would you say creates a good show, a good podcast for an organization? Because I know it comes down to the strategy and the content, right? There's a million plus shows and to get someone to listen, listened for 30 minutes an hour. It takes, you know, great content to have someone say that long. So in your opinion, like, what do you guys take the client through that you can talk about when it comes to laying out a good show that can actually build a listenership.

Goodness. There's just so many layers of a podcast. I've actually written so many articles about what creates a good show and I would say first and foremost, making sure that you are taking your show seriously. I think just like any form of content, you get what you invest into it. And so it, you know, whenever brands approach me and they're looking to do something, you know, overnight, instant gratification, spend, like not very much money, record on anchor.

Yeah.

I'm like, okay, well that is going to be a low production quality and that is not going to match the brand quality of your, of your, of your, of your firm. I mean, at the end of the day, I think when we all listen to shows, think about your top favorite podcast. Every single one of them have a high production quality. I mean, the content may or may not be great, but you're not going to listen to a show and be like, well, the sound quality sucks, but at least the content's good. Like, no, your retention drop off is going to be right from the beginning. And so for me, it's just like making sure that you're actually investing in your show so that people take your show seriously and when the production quality is higher, that will match your brand voice. So that would be the first thing for me. And then I would say creating a really good show is only half of the work. The other half of the work is marketing your show. So making sure you're investing in Spotify ads, performance, marketing placements, media, buying, pr, content. There's so many layers, it's half the battle.

Yeah, no, I love that. And I think too, I mean, there's a lot of podcasters that listen to this show. What's your advice on the marketing side of things? If someone's launching their show today, like, to get really tactical, like, what are the first three things someone should do to start building that audience based on your experience?

So actually it's funny, we are. Spotify Ad Studio launched a console about a year and a half ago. So I have been working with this product since day one, since it launched. And we have gotten, I would say, like, we are one of the few experts in Spotify ads because we've Been doing it since day one. And we work alongside the Spotify product team to really maximize our results and get proprietary data from that. And so I would say Spotify ads has definitely got a very high conversion rate because it's a green product. So similar to the early days of Google Marketing, Google performance marketing, we're like, right there at the beginning, and Quill is actually in the process right now of building out a product that automates Spotify ads. So right now we're doing everything manually. We have to go in and tweak it and figure out who it's working on and constantly experiment with the audiences. But with machine learning, we're not building out a product that will automize that entire process. So our clients, we're essentially creating this product for ourselves. So we're the customers, but we will basically be able to put in $1,000 and it'll invest automatically on its own without any of the heavy lifting. And so until that product's in the market, I would say, like, experiment with performance marketing. Spotify for sure, but also things like Google, Instagram, YouTube, social ads, also getting placements. So, you know, making sure that you're getting your show at Apple in the hands of the right people to try to get it to ran, and then the organic stuff. So social content, writing, transcribing, formatting for SEO, PR awards, all of the good stuff.

Totally. No, I love that. And I want to ask you, what's your background like before the agency, before Quill? You're very well versed in not only business, but team building and creating great product. Like, what was your background prior to the agency? Did you go to college? Where did you grow up? I'd love to hear about some of this.

Yeah. So my background would be the. I would say MVP of getting shit done.

Okay.

Just, you know, it's funny. I grew. I was born and raised in the Middle east, so I'm from Oman, which is. It's a really small country in between Dubai and Yemen. People have no idea where it is. It's like really, really. It's tiny on the map. And I was there until I was 18. So I was born and raised there. And then I moved to Toronto, actually, to go to school. I couldn't afford the States. I, like, got into a few really great schools in the US but couldn't afford it. So I decided to go to Toronto because I had gotten a scholarship in my undergrad so I could put myself through school. And then working a few jobs, I was able to put my, like, pay off the rest of my tuition. So that was really good for me. Just, I would say the Canadian government was like, really awesome in supporting me. Put myself through school and then after I graduated joined the startup circuit and helped companies scale. So my background is actually sales and hacking outbound sales. So I am the person that comes in to take companies from zero to a million to 5 million to 10 million. Like I like to work with early stage startups specifically. So my background is technically sales, but I think when you're in the early stages of any company, you are, you know, building up a very important skill set, which is resilience, grit and resourcefulness. So anyone who is sort of comes from that world, it's so hard to define one role because those skills are all so transferable.

Absolutely. That's amazing. Speaking on the podcasting industry, I've not only I'm super invested into the space, but also building a product myself. When it comes to how you see the industry, especially the last 12 months with Spotify making so many acquisitions with platforms like Anchor and Parkast and all these different networks, with someone that has so much experience in the space and has a great product, like, what is your mindset on the future of the podcasting industry and what are you excited about?

I love this question. Casey, you were born to be a podcast host. I don't know if anyone's ever told you this, but like, you're like the Michael Jordan of podcast hosting.

Well, I appreciate that. That's such a big compliment.

Yeah, you're great. I can also see why you and Swish are friends. You remind me a lot of very similar dynamic personalities.

Shout out to Swish.

Yeah, he's awes. You know, I love that question so much because when we launched Quail, it was such a risk because I was going from a world where I knew every company would hire a marketing agency to going very, very niche, which was just podcasting. And at that point, when we launched, podcasting wasn't on the exponential growth curve. I would say that, like, for sure. It was definitely starting to pick up. Hype 2014 when cereal launched, it started becoming a household names, but we were still a very green industry. And so many people told me, you're at the cusp of it could go either way. It could. Either you're doing something really, really smart and it could. You're like first to market with a very new product, or you're doing something really, really stupid. And podcasting is just a fad that's gonna disappear overnight. And haha. I'M having the last laugh here, but I now 100% believe, and statistically can back this up, that just like in the 90s, how every business had a, first a phone number, then it was a website, and then in the 2000s, it was social media. I think now in the next five to 10 years, every brand is gonna be either starting a podcast or advertising on one. And, you know, just like in 2007, I think the questions everyone was asking was, you know, should we be on social? Should we be on Twitter? And now it's not. Should you? It's 100%. Yeah, absolutely. And I think 100% in the next five to 10 years, brands are either going to be advertising on podcasts or they're going to be creating their own shows. And so I feel really fortunate that we are first to market in this industry for a new category. And I think people like you who have moved in as podcast hosts in such an early category are going to be influencers in the next five to, like, serious influencers in the next five to 10 years. Just like if you were on Twitter in 2007, by default, you're an influencer today.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I love that answer to that question. That's very insightful for everyone that's out there thinking about starting a podcast or that has one and that, you know, may not be confident in it. When it comes to podcasting, in a nutshell, like you said, you say every company, it will be sort of like social media today. It's a mandatory thing. You don't just not have social media when it comes to brands and podcasts versus, like, individuals like myself. And talking to my audience. What do you think the difference is when it comes to the approach? Is there a difference? And what's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, so I guess there's definitely a difference in an approach because for me, everybody consumes content in different ways. If you, you know, some people are visual, some people for written. For me, it's audio. Like, I've always been a huge consumer since cereal launched. And I was given that call. My best friend gave me a call and she was like, hey, have you heard of this murder mystery podcast? It's like some, you know, like, Southeast Asian kid, you know, Adnan convicted of a murder. And I was like, oh, this sounds so interesting. I'm like, right up my murder mystery alley. And I was like, this is a really weird format. Like, why would I listen to a story? Like, why is this not like, Netflix wasn't even a thing Back then, but it was like, why is there no TV show around this? They're like, no. Like Sarah Caning, this journalist decided to do an audio consumption format only. And so the thing that I realized right away is I was hooked. I was consuming content in a way that I've never been able to do before, because it was one of those few mediums where you could actively be engaged in another activity, like walking your dog, like driving to work, like at the gym, doing your dishes, but still be engaged. And I love that because I've always been so busy. And for me, I want to be productive even when I'm not being productive. So for brands, I think it's an opportunity to now reach audiences during a time which is not available for other in other advertising methods. And I think that is why, if you think about it, Midroll, just recently did a study where they interviewed millions of people, and they found that up to 65% of the people that they interviewed said they purchased a product or service after listening to a podcast, including myself. Like Rhomba hair curlers, the hellofresh meal kits, the empty mattresses. But traditional advertising only converts that 1 to 2%. But because it's the wild, wild west and it's uncharted territories, I think brands just don't really understand the space. But if you look at the stats and the metrics, it is a completely different form of reaching people, new audiences in new places, so engaged, so intimate, high conversion rates, and, you know, it's not about mass targeting anymore. Now you can reach very granular demographics, and that's never been done before. So I think think it's such a huge opportunity for brands and also indie podcasters that are looking to build their brands.

Totally. No, I love that and I totally agree with that. Or podcast advertising. I've worked with different brands that have advertised on my show, and like you said, it's the wild wild West. When you hear podcast advertising, what would you say the current model is for advertising on podcasts? And where do you see it going?

Okay, so I'm actually gonna ask you to repeat that because your connection just cut out. So I'm hoping the editor can cut that out.

So when it comes to podcast advertising, where do you see the landscape is right now with brands working with podcasters, and where do you see it going? Because like you said before, it's like the wild, wild west. No one knows exactly the structure of podcast advertising, and it's changing every day. So what's your thoughts on where it is now and where it's going well.

I think it's now. I think the stat is that by the year 2022, podcast advertising is going to have reached a billion dollars in ad spend, which is awesome. It's still a very green space. So I think there is a lot of opportunity for companies to come out and actually own the podcast advertising space. I mean, I know a lot of companies are trying to get it right. I would say Advertecast has done a really good job mid roll. I know Podcorn and LaunchPod are launching. The problem that I'm seeing in the space right now is that most advertising companies within podcasting are focused on, like, the big dollars. The challenge is how can you monetize on your show when you only have 300, 400, 500 listeners? Like anyone can monetize when you're at, like the thousands per episode. So I think that's where there's a really big opportunity. And I think companies like Podcorn and LaunchPod are doing a really good job of trying to come in and monetize on that subset of people who I think have been sort of ignored by the bigger brand.

Totally. We kind of cut off. One second. I think you're frozen on my end. One second.

Dabble in the podcast.

Sorry about that. Sorry you was breaking up. Just go ahead and start over again.

Yeah, no worries. When we had initially launched Quill, right at the beginning, we had thought about, do we want to move into the podcast advertising space? But, you know, what we saw was we really want to be in the trenches with content creators to start to help make it household name. And maybe down the road, we will move into advertising. And lo and behold, after about eight months of doing podcast advertising or marketing, we've decided to now double down on ad spend. So there is a lot of opportunity.

I love that when it comes to the conference that you've put together, I'd love to hear about the inspiration behind this and most importantly, where you see that going, because I'm super excited to learn more about it. I'm sure the audience as well.

It really came down to the fact that there were really. No, not. Not any event. Like, there's some really great events catered to indie podcasters like PodFest and Podcast Movement, and we're actually partnered with all of those events, like we are. We know it's a small industry, we're a small community, and we're always championing each other. I attend all of these events as speakers, but it's great for the indie podcasters. But not focused on brands moving into the this space. And so we were like, okay, no, we specifically need to create an event that is 100% focused on branded podcasts, best practices, what creates a really good show, what resources you should be using, how to monetize on your show. Like, those were all of the gaps for brands. And so we said, okay, well, there's no event out there that's that we're looking for where we can bring our clients to, so why not just create one? And we did. And then Covid hit. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting. I would say we've definitely checked all of the boxes. Our headliner is Sarah Caning, the woman who put it all on the map for us. We also have, like, industry experts from companies like Lipsyn, Simplecast, Wondery, iheartradio paired with corporate companies like Google, Facebook, Glassdoor, Salesforce. So it's a good mix of brands that have succeeded in podcasting with industry experts. And it's all about how to move this medium further in the corporate sense. I said, love that.

I want to ask you, what are some of your favorite shows that you listen to personally?

Oh, I can't choose. It's like choosing. It's so hard. I get asked this question all the time and my answer keeps changing. I love. Well, like, the super standard ones would be shows like how I built this reply all under the influence. But I would say in terms of, like, niche podcasts, I really, really enjoy Gay Future. It's like a new show that I just started listening to. It's a satire that sort of imagines if, like, the entire United States was gay. And it's definitely a parody and a satire. It's a comedy, but it's like maybe Mike Pence's horror story, but for the rest of us, it's the perfect laugh. Yeah, I really enjoy that. My cat Charlie's around here somewhere, and he loves podcasting, too. His favorite shows are Cattitude and Percast, so I always have those on in the background as well. I really like the show Girlfriend. It's, you know, by the New York Times reporter and one of the entrepreneurs, Animatus. Really great show. I like all of the business shows, select masters of scale. Anything that radical candor is a really good one. I honestly consume 10 shows a week, so I can't pick between them.

I love that when it comes to the way you listen to shows, I know there's a lot of different ways of Spotify and Apple and all these different listening platforms. How do you personally listen to a podcast and why?

Okay, so I started off as an Apple podcast, like die hard loyal Apple podcast consumer. So I only ever listened to shows on Apple. And then I switched over in the last six months to Spotify. And I have my reason for it.

Okay.

The one thing that I really am, I would say, irked by is the fact that Apple hasn't introduced an ad console yet. So you can't advertise on Apple podcasts, which I find extremely frustrating because 85% of the downloads are on Apple podcasts, yet you can't target those people. So purely from like a loyalty standpoint, I switched over to Spotify because I was like, they are doing everything that they can to support the podcasting industry, so I want to support them back. And so now I'm a Spotify user exclusively for podcasts. We do all of our advertising on Spotify and we have really great results. So I want to support them back because they've helped move this medium forward. And I probably send Apple an email every week being like, yo, guys, like, why are you not doing this? And I think for them because they make so much money off of all of their products and services that this is like a drop in the bucket for them. So it's not worth their time to focus on podcasting, which honestly just blows my mind. But you know what, until they come out with an ad console, I'm like a die hard Spotify fan now.

I love that. And I can totally agree with you. Like, probably as soon as Spotify launched their charts, I actually bought Spotify Premium and I started listening on there. And that's something I say because I'm like, hey, it's just. It's a better experience in my opinion. And I can definitely say as well, there's dozens I know that I've recently switched. And funny enough, I was on this app called Clubhouse the other day and I was talking with the head of Spotify podcast and we were just talking about how they've transitioned and how they started putting so much.

Is this by any chance Derek or Chiara?

I don't remember his exact name. It's a guy. I'll have to. I was just messaging him on Twitter.

So I work really closely with the Spotify product team as well. And I have to say the podcasting team, and I have to say.

What's the name?

Derek.

No. Sepp. Yep.

So I have to say that's the other thing that I just love is they are such a joy to work with. They are such a Wonderful group of passionate people. And that makes a difference too. That's how you build brand loyalty.

Yep, absolutely. Speaking on just podcasting in that show, I have a couple more questions before you wrap up, and that is is with Quill and the inspiration behind it, like long term. I know that you said you have the core focus of connecting the experts to help individuals build their podcasts. For anyone listening out there, that still may be confused on, hey, how can they personally work with Quill and how can they learn more about it? What's the best place to go to learn more about it? And most importantly, who would you say your target client is for this type of service?

So I'll start with the latter because I think it's important to recognize that our target client is anyone and everyone who wants to start a podcast. We are not going to. For us, it's not just about the money. I started this company because I wanted to move this, like, industry forward. It wasn't just about the money. And if it was about the money, we would have launched the agency first, but we actually launched the marketplace first because we knew most people have limited budget. So, you know, if you're an indie podcaster with $100 budget and if you're a big brand with $100,000 budget, like, and everyone in between, you can come to Quill because we are a one stop shop. We're catering to everyone, not just the big budget folks. And to learn more about our company, you can go to our website. It's Quillit IO so Q u I l l I t IO quill.com and Quill CA were taken down. The office supply company, they bought out all the domains. Yeah, yeah, one day we'll buy them back. But for now that is our URL. So you can pretty much access us there to learn more about us. We also do podcast consultations. 30 minutes for someone who isn't sure where to start, what their budget should be, wants to learn more about the process, just information, gather, get intel. Or if you're just on the fence and want to talk about why you should start a show. We do 30 minute consultations to, you know, get you up to speed and then we help match you with a solution, which could be a freelancer, it could be working with our in house team, or it could just simply be a DIY guide that we just hand over for free and we're like, here are all the resources you need to get started.

Yep, I love that. And last but not least, Fatima, where is the best place for the listeners today to follow you and to just stay up to date with everything you have going on.

So I'm pretty accessible across all channels. True. Millennial on all of the platforms. So if you're gonna tweet or Instagram like Zadie A, Fatima is my handle. You can follow me through Casey. If you're following him, I follow him, too. LinkedIn, Fatima, Zaidie, Facebook, the same. I'm, like, on all the platforms, even TikTok. So love it.

Love it. Well, Fatima, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It was such a pleasure to have you on.

Thank you so much for having me, Casey. And I'm really excited to hear you speak at our conference.

Thank you. Monarch Legacy of Monsters An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me. The most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise. Oh, my God. Go, go, go. Monarch Legacy of monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV. Plus.