Jake Plonskier - Founder of Watches.io

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Jake Plonskier, the co founder of Watches IO. Jake, thanks so much for coming on today.

Thank you for having me. Excited to be here.

Of course, man. So it's so great. I think we initially connected on Instagram. I saw that you had the handle watches and then I looked more into the platform. We connected and it's so cool to see what you and the team have built thus far. And quite frankly, just understanding your background and seeing the passion for watches outside of the platform is just so cool to see. But for those that may not know what Watches IO is, would love to have you give some context before we dive in.

Definitely. So watches IO, I view it as a pretty game changing platform. A lot of the websites to buy watches online or just interact with the watch industry currently, you know, they feel like luxury marketplaces, a place that you can go and buy your next beautiful luxury watch and like, you know, when it arrives, it's going to look so great on your wrist. Watches IO takes a different approach. We try to, you know, bucket watches into this investment asset, you know, perspective that you're buying something that is going to potentially go up in value or be a store of value or could be used in some sort of, you know, financial defi protocol which is, you know, later in the conversation but trying to let users feel like they're on Robinhood, you know, make a data driven decision when they buy into the watch. Less emotional. So that's kind of Watches IO. It's an analytics platform and a trading exchange to buy and sell watches.

Love that. So what was the first watch that you bought or the watch that got you into this whole space in terms of the passion and just the love for watches and the craft, what was that moment for you?

It's a good question, actually. So basically in school, I was in college at the time and I was beginning to help a friend's startup which was selling watch straps, get off the ground and start getting some traction. And you know, I'm like 20 years old at the time, 21 years old, you know, and I basically financed a Panerai from Joe, my shop, I think it was. And it was like 100 bucks a month. 150 bucks a month. And the reason I bought this Panerai was that it allowed for me to put every single watch strap that we made onto the watch and at least, you know, connect with the brand. So that was kind of like my first time really taking a financial risk to kind of get myself Forward, which I think is a recurring theme and kind of bringing a company and a vision to life. And throughout the journey, I've had a bunch of different watches. Right now I'm wearing a mad red. Oh, wow.

I don't even know what a mad red is. Yeah, if you're watching this, it's. Something is spinning on the watch.

Spinner on the wrist.

Wow.

So, yeah, that was the first watch. And then I, you know, I've had an ap. I've had some Rolexes. I've bounced around. Yeah, that, that Panerai, though, is kind of like, kind of was the first step that I've ever taken towards, you know, putting. Putting it all on the line. Let's just say, you know, not really having an income yet, wanting to help a friend with his company and basically saying like, yo, to get into this industry, you got to get a watch on your wrist. You got to have one of them. You got to, you know, so, yeah, good question.

What. What does a watch mean to you? Right. Because I think, as someone, too, that I have such a love and appreciation for watches. They mean different things to different people.

Right.

One could be like, you know, you appreciate the craftsmanship. One could be, you know, when you walk into a room, it can command a different level of presence and respect. Right. You see Jay Z walking with the Tiffany blue paddock, you're like, okay, you know, outside of being Jay Z. But just the craftsmanship and the. The rare aspect of watches can make him great conversational pieces and just true stories to tell. But for you, what does, you know, a watch on your wrist mean to you? And what does that feeling mean to you? And has it changed over time?

Yeah, big time. It's definitely evolved. When I. When I first bought that Panerai, it was definitely a tool, right? Like, it was a way for me to be in the watch industry or at least feel connected to it. It was a way for me to create content. It was business as well, you know, like, it was. It was more of like, I'm putting on, you know, my suit. You know, like, the way you're in finance, you wear a button down. When you're in this industry, you put on your watch.

Watch.

And that's kind of how it felt. Then I got into watches. Like, I started getting a little bit more passionate. Like, I got a cooler Panerai, like an all ceramic one, because I. I love the. The ceramic finish on the Panerais. Like, I. And then I started getting more into it. I traveled to Switzerland. I. I've Been to China and you start seeing how, you know, this industry specifically, like the manufacturers, like ap, you know, they're not, they're not like, they're not moving their operation to a mass production factory that's banging out, you know, millions of units. They're really keeping it, you know, in the family. They're building small quantities. So that's when I started gaining an appreciation as I got in the industry. Not just like, oh, that's cool, I want that one because it looks good. Then I started really being like, wow, like, that's epic. Like the way that the Tourbillon was founded by, you know, Breguet and he was like really close with the Audemars family in the 1900s. And then they like worked together in the cold Swiss winters to perfect watchmaking. And that's when I started gaining like a real appreciation. And then, then I started getting into the investment side of everything. Like, wow, I can buy a watch and it can go up in value. There's an AP that I wore that, you know, I think was sold for like $14,000 profit. And it's like, all right, like, that's another side of watches. That's what really got me hooked into building watches. IO and then now I think of it as like, you know, I hate to say it, but like all the basic watches which are like anything that's like, you know, entry level steel or like, you know, a basic yellow gold or rose gold watch. Like, I feel like even though, you know, I haven't had many crazy heavy hitters, I feel like I'm a little bit over them and I need to wear like an independent manufacturer, an up and coming brand, something that's unique. Like, I can't see myself wearing like a Wimbledon, you know, it's beautiful watch, awesome piece, but I need something like this, you know, and it's. So that's where I'm at now with watches and my opinion of the asset.

So you brought up the watch you're wearing now. What is that again?

And I've never heard of Mad1Red. It was based on Red Mad1Red. It's a offshoot of the brand MB&F. And basically MB and FS are like quarter million dollar watches. Right? And the founder is Max Busser. He think he used to be a Piaget before he started the company. You know, I was in Dubai at Mad Gallery, and one of the employees at the Mad gallery, which is MBNF's, you know, boutique, they call it a gallery. They, they told me they're like, people come into this boutique and they say, hey, like I just sold my company for $300 million. I, I finally can afford one. Can I get one? And they're like quarter million dollar pieces and they're like, yeah, they're all sold out. We don't have anything. And you know, whether it's vendors or family members of the people that work at the company, everybody wants a MB and F watch, but pretty much everybody's unable to get them as they make such a small quantity. So the founder, Max Busser basically rolled out a ancillary brand. And the way it works is via a lottery where you submit an application, they pick you. And I think they put out 500 watches or 1500, some small amount. And, and this was last year's lottery watch. And that's incredible. I personally had to trade another watch for it. I wasn't able to win the lottery.

But yeah, no, that's really cool. Where is that band brand based? In Dubai.

They're based, they have a boutique in Dubai. They have a boutique as well in I think in Taiwan or Hong Kong, but. And then you know, some like offshoot sellers like Chrono Passion in Paris, but they're based in Switzerland.

Got it. That's awesome. When you talked about the brand that you worked for early on, I believe you're talking about Horus Straps. Is that right?

Absolutely, yeah.

How did you meet Mark from Horus and what were you doing before that? I know you have a master's in accounting. What were some of the career endeavors slash projects that you were working on or just industries you wanted to be in before stumbling into working at the Horse Straps company and meeting Mark and really, how did that come together?

Yeah, so I've known Mark most of my life. We grew up in the same town, became really good friends in high school, and then basically he was working with another business partner at the time and they co founded Horace. And what I always found really interesting was how they were leveraging Instagram at a very early stage in the now platform that runs our lives. But in the early days of the platform, you know, nobody was really using Instagram as a business tool at the time. It was a way to post photos. So I'm in school getting a bachelor's and a master's in accounting. And you know, I always, I always felt like I should have been doing something entrepreneurial. But I also wanted that high quality education that will set me up because like, I guess, you know, that's the pill I was swallowed at the time or Chewing, whatever. But so I was always fascinated with what they were doing. And I saw like, you know, Horus had motion from day one. The watch straps are sick. Like, I'm sure you've seen them for sure.

I have a, I have a bunch of them.

Yeah, yeah, they're, they're, they're beautiful.

Yeah.

So the brand always had motion, like, whether it was like a little celebrity was interested in it or they got like a random DM from Jake Paul or something. But I saw a big opportunity to kind of turn something that I felt like was a, you know, a small Instagram hustle into like a real global brand. And it was just like, it aligned with my education, it aligned with, you know, me, you know, creating a career for myself, which was something that felt very entrepreneurial to me. And I was basically, you know, and I've always had, like, little businesses myself. Like, I had a company in college, I had a company in high school myself.

What were those companies? Just for the context, I had a.

Cell phone and accessory distribution company. So like, kind of like, you know, those Solaris and those little kiosks in the mall with all the phone cases and the chargers. I was arbitraging ebay and Craigslist before it was a thing just like figuring out how to make money that way. And then so good. And then in college, I sold burritos, believe it or not.

How did that. You sell burritos where?

Burritos. So basically I would send out the burrito, I sent out a form on Sundays, and I would, you know, list out the different types of burritos you can get. And they're all, I think it was like if Chipotle was $8, they were $7. Right, okay. And the burrito came with like eggs, beef, beans, at a special sauce that I made. And it was like, you know, straight protein gains, you know, college, and did pretty well. Like, it, it paid for pretty much all my expenses in school. And so I always had that entrepreneurial itch. Right. But I never had anything serious. I was taking school pretty serious as well, you know, always. I loved getting an accounting degree. I, I, it was definitely, you know, a hustle. I think it prepped me well. And yeah, so, so that was where, that was where things kind of got interesting. So I, I helped out Horace for a summer and then a couple months after, before I had a full time job offer from PwC in New York City, which is like, you know, a big accounting firm. And basically I wasn't really passionate about going to work at PwC. I wanted to. I wanted to really see Horace kind of like, get off the ground, you know, pick up speed. And there's maybe like five, ten. I don't. I don't know the amount, but, like, very few amounts of actual authorized dealers selling the product. And I was very fascinated with how, like, you know, there's hundreds of Rolex boutiques worldwide. And I was like, you know, that's what we have to build for ourselves. Like, Horus has to be something that you can find at every celebrity jeweler shop. It's something that you can find at whatever. So that's when I started, you know, going ham. Like. Like, I would. I wouldn't even sleep. I remember the first three months that I started going full time at Horus. After college, before PwC, we had a trip to China planned, and the founder and one of our friends was like, jake, you should come. Jake, you should come to China. It's gonna be epic. And I'm like, yo, I'm in my bag. Like, I'm focused.

And yeah, yeah.

That's when I was, like, messaging, like, I'm talking to, like, Eliante. I'm talking to Jane the Jeweler. I'm talking to Vobara. I'm talking to everybody that you've seen on Instagram that' got, you know, a reputation in hip hop and culture. Trotters, a jewelers, like, and I'm sending all them out product. I'm getting them to promote us on Instagram. I'm just getting to know the people, traveling to meet them. Like, really?

Yeah.

Giving this company a foundation. Right? And then. And then, yeah. And then, like, PwC, you know, kind of hit this point where I was like, all right, am I going to work at Horus or PwC? There was some stuff that had to get organized. I was like, all right, let me just do a couple months of PwC at the least, see how it goes. And, you know, I'm obviously skipping through a lot of the story, but worked at PwC and just absolutely hated it, right? Like, miserable.

What was it? Because going from pure startup environment to then, large organization, large enterprise. What was your initial reaction to that and how did you feel during that time?

Bro, I was in the banking, capital markets, insurance, tax group at PricewaterhouseCoopers New York City. This accounting office, this PwC, if it was its own accounting firm, like, just this building would be the fifth largest accounting firm in the entire world. If there was there's an attack on this building, the capital markets would feel it instantly. Like, this is Like a very, like, you know, the floors will get shined every single night with a zamboni, like that type of corporate environment. And, man, it wasn't for me. Like, I was in charge of setting up, you know, K1 tax returns for a bunch of reinsurance entities. I was, you know, organizing. Let me turn off that mute. I was organizing a bunch of different, you know, like 1065s and 1020 tax returns. Like, I had the education, but I didn't have the passion. Now, you know, on the side, I was still helping out Horace, very passionate about what they were doing. There was never, like a loss of heart right there. Right. And basically one thing led to another. I was able to close the biggest deal in the company's history at that time. Like, like some. I think it was like a $45,000 wholesale deal to an authorized exclusive distributor in Russia. We never had exclusive distributors at this time. But I realized there's a business model. You go up to somebody and you say, hey, you're in India or you're in Russia or you're in Mexico. We'll give you exclusive rights to the country. If anybody reaches out to us, we'll pass along the deal to you. And now your minimum purchase quantity is significantly higher than like, you know, a 25 strap order. Now I'm selling 400 straps or 800 straps in a purchase order. And yeah, I mean, the commission came in on that deal. Next thing you know, I got an apartment in Brickell. I'm back at Horace. And that was that. Bye, bye, New York.

Oh, my gosh. Wow. So you're back to Miami. And then just for the context, now you're based in Miami. The company watches IO is based in Miami as well. When was it that you started this company and what led to the transition to say, hey, you know, I love watches. I've worked in the watch business in terms of horse strap and having that experience, then, okay, I want to build a platform that helps with the transactions and really the entire, you know, blockchain element to it as well that you can see to. But when was the idea for Watches IO brought upon you? And how did you then take that? And of course, go execute. And what was that timeframe like?

Yeah, so I stopped working at Horus in May 2021. I was in New York City when I quit. And, you know, I. I instantly wanted to create a product that was able to leverage all the connections I made over the last few years and make a better platform for them. Right. And I wasn't necessarily so focused on. On blockchain. At the time, I was very focused, though, on creating a platform that was focused on letting people trade watches based off data and leverage their social media to increase their own revenue. Like, I. Excuse me. I felt like on a lot of the websites, like eBay and Chrono 24, you know, you're just a seller. That's all. That's all you are. You're not like, you know, celebrity jeweler to this. This artist and this athlete, and you've built up your whole brand on social media. And then at the same time, a lot of the jewelers and watch traders that I was connected with were getting their Instagrams pulled down randomly. Like, you know, and people used to be like, why is this happening? Is it another jeweler targeting me? Is it a, you know, one of the brands seeing that I'm reselling? And I was like, how can you, like, invest, you know, millions of dollars into your social media? And how can you build such, like, a credible brand for yourself and then just get, like, wiped off the Internet overnight?

Yeah.

At the same time, as well as I'm ideating this, I had a meeting with some crypto guys. They were like, a prop fund that was basically tracking a very large v. A very large hedge funds, wallets. And we had dinner, and I was with one of my friends who's, you know, a celebrity, and basically they're explaining to him how, like, hey, man, like, we're buying. What we're doing is we're tracking these wallets, and we're putting all these. This money into liquidity pools, and we're. We're following their motion, and then we're investing at the same time. And that was when I first got introduced to the concept of staking and defi. And I was just, like, I swear, like, instantly hooked. Like, I became obsessed, like, 15 hours a day. Unfortunately, I didn't have a job, so I was kind of just riding my own wave. I was going to, like, Mexico with Steve will do it. And I was traveling and, like, doing cool things, but I didn't have any actual, like, commitment to anybody. So I was able to. I was able to spend probably, like, four to six months, like, getting educated in a way that I felt like not a lot of other people were doing at the time, especially in the bull run. I also didn't have income coming in every single week. I was kind of leveraging what I had saved up to kind of live. And I wasn't able to just sit there and invest in trade, like when you're making money, you could always, you know, buy new things, but when you don't have money coming in, you kind of have like a different mindset. So for me, I wasn't really getting caught up in the commotion. I was very focused on, like, all right, like, this technology is really interesting. Gen Z millennials seem to be addicted to it. Like, what about it is super intriguing and where do I see it kind of going? And that's when I started really seeing how, like, NFT technology in specific would kind of like cross over with the financialization of assets. Right. Like, I always felt like an NFT for a JPEG was. Was kind of like, you know, it kind of felt like how virtual reality was brought to light via the Nintendo we, but now, like, jury is conducted with VR. And I always felt like, you know, there was a opportunity for this technology. Like NFTs, like, it just seems like they're made to represent physical assets on the blockchain. Like, you know, obviously there's currency, but then there's also, like, physical assets. And I just. The crossover made sense. So then started getting into NFT trading. And, like, I hit a. I hit a couple huge licks, like, and I was like, all right, like, and that's how I think a lot of crypto starts for people, is something happens where you 100x or 50x and you're just like hooked. And then. So that happened for me and then I was like, all right, like, this vision that I have of creating a platform is now going to be a, you know, a platform that's all on chain. And at the time it was called Float Game. Like, that was the name of the platform. It was.

Say it again. It was called Float Game.

Float Game. Yeah.

Got it. And it was. That was the watch platform idea name.

It was watches and jewelry. It was basically the whole thing. You know, jewelry right now goes down in value. Like, you buy like a chain from, you know, Ben Baller, like a tennis necklace. Right. Unless if it's like gonna say Ben Baller everywhere. But if it's just like this, like a basic tennis, you know, you buy it for 15,000. Let's just say you can't sell it for 55,000, but you can go buy like a pair of Yeezys for 15 for 150 bucks and you can sell them for 700. And I was like, why are shoes going up in value but not designer gold and diamond jewelry from celebrity jewelers? Like, it didn't. They needed some way to kind of get that Secondary, you know, value kind of like NFTs. So I was really focused on combining watches, jewelry, blockchain, NFT trading, etc.

Man.

Like, I was, you know, when you have like a new business idea and you're talking about it a bunch and you just don't know how to verbalize it, and everybody's like, I get it, but I don't, I see it, but I don't absolutely through that for like a year. Like, no other way to put it. It was a total watch and burnt.

A lot of money. What year is this on? You're talking about NFTs bull market is 2021 when you're ideating on this or what time?

Flowgame started in July 2021, and by December 2021 it was like all web3.

Yeah.

And then it started getting web3. Like October, November or September? October, November, December. And then December was like, all right, like we're bringing watches and jewelry on the blockchain. Then January, February, March, April. I was still trying to make float game work with jewelry, watches, blockchain. And then, then I, that, that's when it all kind of like, like that's when it all started coming down and I kind of crashed for a bit. I was, I was really like, down. I was like, damn. Like, I've been trying to make this happen for a year. Like, I've had conversations with everybody at this point, like, you know, people from like, the biggest NFT projects, the biggest jewelers in the industry. And I've tried talking to everybody about a partnership, you know, a deal, whatever. And then I decided I was like, gonna take a month off. I was gonna get my head right about what's gonna work. I'm gonna ditch the name float game and I'm gonna go back to the drawing board. And I remember I 48 hour window where I tried to let myself stay in a specific dream state. I essentially like wrote down during this period, like, I know this sounds like it's like out of a book, but it was, I don't know, like, I, I, I needed to do this with my life. I remember I was driving for like 10 hours, like just looping South Florida in a car.

No way.

And yeah, and then whenever I had a thought, I would just write it down in the notepad and just keep driving. And I basically, I noted down like, all the things that I felt were really important for me to be able to craft what I was thinking into something successful. And one of the things was like, I needed like a real brand partner. I Was like, yo, Jake, like, yeah, you have some followers on Instagram and friends in the industry, but you need like a real brand too. You need to find engineer, co founder, technical lead. Like you need that type of person on the team. You can't just like try to get dev shops or find random developers.

It's hard doing that. And we did that not to cut you off, but at media kits it was myself and my co founder and we didn't have a non, we had no technical co founders to start with. And that recruiting phase is obviously it's not impossible, but it, looking back, it sets you up in a more disadvantaged approach versus having someone on board. Not to say one is right or wrong. People do it all the time and are extremely successful. But no, I totally get that perspective and I think that's important to point out.

Yeah. And there's so many different types of engineers too. So like, you know, for ourselves, who are more, you know, focused on brand and creation, like, we're not, you know, we don't have an engineering background so you don't necessarily know where to start. Like, oh, do I need like a front end guy, back end guy, a web engineer. And our former company, you know, at Horus, it was a Shopify. So if there was ever any sort of development work, we would just outsource it to our development guy, pay him a couple thousand and move on. Like, it wasn't really an engineering company. Right. And so I noted everything down, took time off and then I completely rebranded and I came up with the name Poradex Horology's decentralized exchange and this was the vision. I also at the time got into connection with a front end designer, a UI designer, Arsh, this kid, like, and I think this was like where it really, this is when the story starts, you know, getting better. Let's just say I was like. Arsh was like, hey man, like, I think what you're doing is like really cool. Love to help you. And I'm like, look, can you make me like an epic landing page so that we can have something to show people? Actually, sorry, story's a little messed up. I met Arsha right after I stopped doing Float game before I came up with the name Horodex. And I was essentially testing Arsh to see his design skills and he made a landing page for float game and he told me he could make it, you know, like on, on react and everything.

Yeah.

And then when it came to actually developing it, not just the design file, he was like, hey, like, I gotta get my buddy to help me alok he can make this into a beautiful landing page. And Arshin alok made my vision come to life in a landing page format in like four days. And I was like, I was like, yo, we're off to something. And. And then I was like, yo, guys, like, we should start working on something with watches and da da, da. That's when I started really ideating space. I'm like, now that I got this design, like, what do I need? What? Like, whatever. And yeah, so we came up with a design for the Horodex marketplace. We built out all of the front end, every edge case. We completely made the end to end front end. And then I met up with one of my buddies off Instagram at the time on Instagram Authority, Nafez, and I had lunch with him or yeah, I showed him the design file and he was like, yo, like, what you're doing is like really cool. I do a lot of things on social media, I do a lot of things with networking, but I've never really been connected to a technology startup. And I feel like that's like what you're doing here. And I want to be involved, I want to help, I want to contribute in whatever way I can. And. And like, he meant it. Like, he instantly was like. And I didn't want any investors at the time. I didn't want to take conversations with people, I didn't want to do meetings. I just wanted to build this product because now I had designers, now I was able to bring my vision to life and that's all I wanted to do. And he, he introduced me to like three or four angels who, I mean, kids at the time. And like his network, I didn't understand. They're just going to be my earliest investors. And basically they're like, yo, like, I'm down to invest. This is sick. I'm down to invest. And like all of a sudden I had like, you know, which I think the math was like 60, $70,000 lined up. Yep. So with this. And this was all due to Nafez's networking. With this, I was able to go to a couple crypto conferences and I brought that front end product with me. That felt like, I mean, not all.

And at the point now, because this is landing page, the idea is becoming real. You're building out the team now. It's like, okay, let's go build this product. Is that right?

Yeah, yeah. And from day one of Float Game, and this is what I learned at Horus that I think a lot of people that create startups. We can go through like advice at the end, but like you got to remember that you just can't quit and you can't even think about it. Like even if it's not working, you just got to keep going. Even if people tell you it sucks or you need to get a job or what are you thinking or you know, even if freaking SPF rugs the entire crypto economy, you still keep going. Like you do not stop. And so even with floating, like I did not stop. I knew I had to change the name, I knew I had to change some of the vision, but I knew I had to keep going. And so yeah, now it's starting to get motion. Now I have a product where, yeah, there's no backend, but if you like used it on your computer and I showed it to you right now, you'd be like, yo, this is sick. You can see all the prices of watches. You can buy them.

So I want to talk about that and I'll, we can, you know, I'll link it down below. But how do people interact with Watches IO today? Because I know I've been on the site and I've seen it, so I have the experience there. But for people that are listening or watching this, I'd love for you to give some context to again like user experience and where it is now and sort of the vision for where you see it going.

Yeah. So zoom forward. Got the best in web 3 behind the company, brought on back end engineers and long story short, now you can go to Watches IO and it's a basic analytics platform. You're able to add your watch collection, you can track it in real time and you can see the values of, you know, your entire portfolio. What we're working on right now is a marketplace that feels kind of like an open sea for watches. You know, a very rudimentary V0 concept that is, it's really cool. What we plan on doing over time is adding additional complexity to turn it into something that's a crossover between something like Bloomberg Terminal meets, you know, Binance Trading Exchange, like at the same time introducing our own in house financial products. What's most unique about our marketplace right now is you're actually able to purchase a luxury watch and instead of getting the actual luxury watch, you can choose to get watch backed NFT of it. A watch backed nft, which is our trademark term for an NFT that's backed by a physical watch. And for example, like, let's say you buy a Rolex daytona watch backed NFT, the actual Daytona, the $30,000 watch is inside of our vault where it's stored under full insurance. You know, it's collateralized. And then you're able to take your NFT to supported protocol partners of ours. So like you've heard of maybe Arcade or NFT Fi or you know, Astaria, and you can essentially access liquidity that's been secured on chain from these platforms. And what that means in like basic terms is yeah, how does that work.

For people that are like, okay, So I spend $30,000 on a watch backed NFT. Okay, maybe, you know, they, they don't have the watch. So what's the value for someone in that, in that point of view?

One, a watch backed NFT could be instantly sold. So you don't need to worry about like a two day payout or a 15 day payout. You buy an NFT and you put it up for sale a minute later. You get paid out a minute later. Like it's like NFT trading for watches. So that's a cool, a super cool benefit too is you don't have to worry about shipping and logistics. You can obviously redeem your NFT for a watch and we'll send you that and we'll take the NFT back from you. But then also the NFT is able to represent on the blockchain the physical asset, kind of like what NFTs are for. And if it's a $30,000 watch, you could perhaps take out a $25,000 loan against the value of the watch, trade some crypto, turn that 25,000 into 45,000, pay back the loan, and then now you have your watch and you have more money because you took some liquidity out against the value of your watch. So it's just another way to create debt. And you know, debt drives the world forward. You know, every real estate property in Miami has been, you know, funded by debt. So debt is, debt drives equity. So that's like the way that I kind of foresee watches getting valued, which is kind of deeper. I wish I kind of went more into it. But you know, watches right now don't really have value. It's very speculative and that's why the market's dipping 40%.

Yeah, I was going to say that. That's a good, actually a good point. So in this world of watches, right, like what did, in your opinion, what determines the value of watches? And I think too just what is, I'd love to speak to some of the early feedback that you guys have. Been getting, right? Because I think for a lot of people listening, right, maybe people are under, they understand NFTs and they understand, okay, supply and demand, that can create value. And that's what happened in the, in the last pool. But then of course things can go south and a lot of them lost value. But on the flip side, watches, right? Actually owning the watch, having it is one thing, but then utilizing this technology that you built to own the watch backed nft, it's a whole different concept where I think it definitely takes a second to say, okay, I'm spending this money on the watch, I have this NFT and I can therefore benefit and get value from trading it and then maybe taking out and getting liquidity from that. But what has been some of the early user feedback and sort of the questions that you've had to really sit back with your team to get clarity on, okay, who was our target user? Is it people that are mainly crypto, Is it the watch native people that are saying, okay, how can I adopt this new technology? Because I love wearing the watches, but I'd also like to understand how I can benefit from the financial aspect of it without having to have all of them. I'm just curious to know what have been some of the lessons learned from this concept and the go to market that you guys have done since you launched the platform. And I think as a founder, it's so important to share those lessons, number one, to just reflect on them, but number two, to teach others and obviously share lessons learned.

Yeah, it's a really multilayered response here. For one, you have the crypto market which is always looking for something new, right? A lot of people, and I think this is what differentiates us, is a lot of founders in the web3 and the crypto blockchain space, they like to come up with products that seem cool based off new technology, like, oh, this exists, let me create something for it, like this type of smart contract or I'm going to make this. But for Cosmos or this on Solana, we are very focused, very problem focused and we create solutions for the problem. So the biggest problem that anybody has right now is what is the true intrinsic value of a watch. So we've created an analytic platform that lets you actually see the value of watches in real time, which is, you know, the biggest question mark. Even the most experienced watch traders, they buy a lot based off emotion or based off their experience, not based off a chart. Right. And I want people to start thinking that way. And you've seen it like, you know, A lot of collectors or traders have started to turn into like investors. Like people buy watches with this concept of like, oh, like what's a good buy that's going to go up in value? So I've really targeted that demographic but I also haven't over marketed our product. Like I post on our Instagram, I post on my page, but I don't really like do much to put our name out there because we're still in such a build mode right now to get to where we want to be. We're still technically in beta, behind the scenes building and there's a lot. We have two companies in one. We have the analytics platform and then we have the trading exchange. So that's kind of like who we've been focused on. But at the same time irl, we've been doing a lot of networking with major liquidity providers, crypto whales, big time watch collectors. And the response has been like, you know, suit, like, like, like this is the coolest thing ever. People have told me that this is the coolest company they've ever heard of. My investors constantly tell me that this is the project that they're most excited to see play out. And I think it's because we're doing something that's just so unique compared to a lot of the other things that are coming up in the space, especially during this bear market and where I really think our first users with this platform will be and based off my feedback is going to be the crypto demographic that has money on chain, has the ability and the interest in learning about a new product and really kind of like proof of concept building. With this small, you know, network we're going to keep the product, you know, relatively exclusive, you know, the inventory. We're going to not have too much up there, we're going to do it small and make sure that end to end the experience is perfect. And then for the real rollout, that's when I anticipate kind of like you know, going to the corners of planet earth and being like watch collectors in Taiwan, Tokyo, Paris, London, Miami, everybody get behind this. It's super cool new way and I don't want to get in the way of you know, the people that are buying like for example, you know, timepiece trading in Miami, right? Like they're the biggest, like they have every watch in stock, their sales teams like on fire. Like they're, they're the type of people like you go to that boutique when you want to buy a watch that obviously is an investment, but you want to Buy a watch that you've been like dreaming of getting, right, and they can deliver you an experience that I think should never get taken away from buying a luxury watch. Like sitting down with a dealer, asking your questions, letting them tell you about the manufacturer, like, and that's, that's, that's something you can't break, but that's, that's emotional, right? Like why you're buying a watch at a jewelry store. I think there's a whole new level where you're going to have people that are in crypto kind of like at the end of the day saying like, Damn, I bought 25 Rolexes today. Or I just, I flipped like 15 Richard Mills in the last three hours. Just like bought, sold, bought, sold, like, kind of just like you would with like a stock or a crypto. Who cares if you're gonna ever use the blockchain? Like, you're never gonna wear these Rolexes. Why do you care what the dials are? They're just, you know, it's an 8.9 out of 10 condition, it's a black dial, it's a Rolex, it's stainless steel. Like, it's just, it's just another way to make money and speculate. And you know, I kind of see a world where people trade watches in this light and you know, the generation that's already been making money, the, the millennials and above, like, you know, I don't want to say we're stuck in our ways because we're always open to new things, but like, it sounds a little weird to us, right? But you know, think about like a 17 year old right now who's absorbed in, you know, watch negotiation content on TikTok or celebrity jeweler content on YouTube and Instagram. They see all the deals getting posted when they're 22 years old and they're making their first paycheck, you know, they're going to be confident and they're going to say like, damn, I understand the watch industry. I want to make money off watches. Like, I want to get involved and they're going to demand financial products built on top of other assets than what we're used to, whether it be trading cards, wine, liquor, watches. You know, that's, that's the generation that I'm really focused on seeing adopt our technology. And I want to build up until then so that they're able to like, you know, say, hey, I want to put $50 to work in a Rolex backed ETF or I want to, you know, just diversify and put 50 bucks into a liquidity pool that's supplying a Richard Mill loan that the borrower is using to finance property. Like, you know, I want to create those products around watches and I think there's a world where you can do it with the manufacturers that are only making, you know, 10,000, 5,000 pieces a year and there's so much demand and. Yeah, yeah, and that's.

Yeah, no, when you say that too, that makes sense of like the different financial products that you can create within the whole ecosystem of that. That's very interesting there. When it comes to the team, what does the team look like nowadays? I know you talk about finding these early initial designers and I think just the entrepreneurial journey of those core team members that you find and start to work with early on are the foundation of everything. Right. It doesn't move forward without the team that's in place. So how has the team changed over time and what does that look like today?

Yeah, the team evolves a lot. In a startup, you got to be a family or a really trusted crew. I think a family is not the right term because, you know, at the end of the day some people come and go, but yeah, you gotta be a really trusted crew and organization. And we've been fortunate to build like 75% of our operation in Miami.

Yeah, that's great.

Where I think, yeah, where I think really things started kind of like going, turning successful was when I brought on back end engineers. So Vinnie, my co founder and then Chris and the people that we work with in Miami, like just building out a core unit really helped us get moving in the right direction. Especially having a backend engineer that can kind of like, you know, I can focus on creating something for the 17 year olds of tomorrow. But then, and I shouldn't say 17 because they can't invest at this age. But like when they're 22, like five years from now, I can focus on the future. I can study, you know, socioeconomics. But then at the same time, like even like right now, there's a meeting with the engineering unit and there's like nine guys on that call going through like what the operation is for the next 24 hours and what everybody's getting done. And to have like those, those soldiers moving forward on the project, that's why we've been able to create so much value, get so much done in such a little bit of time. And I'm like, I know our product's not live right now, so I'm just, you know, selling what it's going to be. But on the other hand, like, I have the dashboard demo version of it, and it's sick. Like, it's.

It's insane.

It's the coolest thing I've ever seen. And it's thanks to these guys. You know, I can sit here and get everybody excited. I can, you know, talk to the right investors and get tapped into the Web3 community. But at the end of the day, like, the ones that are actually bringing this thing to life is, like, the team. And, yeah, I think that's what a lot of people have seen about us, and that's what they like about us. And like, the commitment that everybody has. You know, it's. It's bar none. Like, we're not. We're not another, like, wallet or another, you know, like, we're. We're something cool. Like, we're watches on the blockchain. We're not like, you know, another insurance product or something boring. Like, it's cool. You know, it's cool. And that's what they love and I love.

And yeah, that's great. And I think. And I'm sure the whole team loves watches outside of just the investment side of it. They, you know, the culture there is very clearer to me in terms of how you can create a culture that has a similar passion, not only on just the technical side, but just on the actual physical watch collecting itself.

Yeah, they. And if they didn't love watches before they got started, now they do. But it's always. It's funny, it's always in, like, our. Our LinkedIn and our post. Whenever we're looking for, like, a software engineer. It's like, hey, like, you need to have seven years of experience. You need to speak these languages. Also must have incessant passion for watches. I'm also, like, I'm down to talk a little bit about advice, I think.

Yeah, go ahead, though. I mean, I think I was just for the sake of the conversation too, in time as well. I always like to end my podcast with not only advice to your younger self if you were to go and start Watches IO again, but advice to other people that are building in the space that you are. I think this industry of Web3, obviously, as someone that raised capital in 2021 for a greater economy and just understood the landscape at a deeper level. Crypto went through a very turbulent time, as did a lot of other companies in different spaces. But crypto specifically, you sometimes find bad actors, which can kind of create this narrative that if you're not in this space, you look at it and you're like wow, what does it feel like to be building in that space during this time? And I think there's a lot of lessons and sort of advice that you can have for people that are either interested in that or be in it, but just looking for a similar mind that is in it as well that they can relate to. So would love to just let you answer that open endedly in terms of advice to younger self if you were to restart and relaunch today. But also just about all things crypto related.

Yeah, I mean in a very simple one sentence format. Crypto is going to be the single biggest industry in the entire world over the next 10 to 15 years. There's in my lifetime at least and I'm 28 years old, there's never been a bigger disruption to anything than crypto like machine learning, artificial intelligence. Like, you know, it's improved work. Big companies have been adopting it for a while. I understand that recently it's become, you know, democratized but. And there's a lot of cool products that are coming from it but they're just going to play into how we're creating a new financial system. Like money just absolutely runs the world and that's one thing I want to point out. So if you think crypto's dead or you think crypto is something that you should be turning a blind eye towards. I understand Bitcoin and Ethereum and Solana are risky investments, that's great. Don't buy them then stick to the S and P. But in terms of the technology and the actual use case, it's there. Digital currency is there. Smart contracts are there. Custody and all the creative products that come from the space and defi are all there and NFTs. So yeah, that's number one. So anybody that's interested in this space, do not give up. Just keep holding on. Figure out a way to build number two is like, you know, I think what I always try to tell myself when I hire somebody or I bring somebody into our organization and you could probably tell that I'm a little bit more intense and I'm passionate and you know, I say to every single person that I interview, I tell them I'm like do you have a can do all willing self starter attitude? And I look at them in the eye when I say this and then I ask them like are you willing to put your back against the wall and grind? My team works hard, I go hard and everybody here wants to be here. If you're not interested in being here you just want the money or you just want to be a part of the AT watches, like it's not going to last. Like this is, this is not that type of organization. Like we really build. And when you say that to somebody, you weed out 90% of people that are not going to be a long term fit just by asking that question. And I think, you know, it's very important when you're building a startup that you're not going to like, you know, because I know the feeling. Like you want somebody on your team, you think they have the right skills, but you don't want to be like aggressive about it or you don't want to be. And you know what, like ask them that question and if they say like or they don't immediately say I'm down, this is all I want to do, then like just like save yourself the couple months and the money and the stress and just like find somebody else. And I think you kind of got to be a little bit say cutthroat because you're not firing somebody at this stage, but you got to be a little bit, you know, impartial with your decision making and realize what's best for the company and just move through things. And you know, getting a startup like this off the ground is something that takes also a lot of like. And I've, this is what I'm super inspired by from you, Casey. But like, it also takes like a lot of, you know, mindset and body and mind alignment. You know, like how you're always exercising. Yeah. Like you can't, you can't, you know, consume fast foods and not get exercise and then expect to be able to like lead 10 people that are all super high powered bionic humans to like actually like work at your level, you know. Yeah, all my diet is super clean, no processed foods. Like I stick to a lot of fruits and nuts and vegetables and clean proteins and meats and like, like I sleep, you know, seven plus hours a night if I'm able to get it. I don't wake up from stress. Like, you know, all this is the.

Epitome of what makes greatness happen. Is that true? And I think it's like the modern way, right? You see these founders that of course there's times to pull all nighters and I believe in that. But if you're not operating at full efficiency because you're not eating right, you're not physically active, you're not, your mind's not there, you're doing yourself and your team a huge disservice.

100%. Like my team. I also tell people, I'm like, we're weed free. I know there's the creative cool thing, but this isn't, you're not going home and smoking at night. You're not going to be, you know, plugging on a, on a vape all the time. Like, this is an operation where you have to be focused on the future and we're investing into you. We're telling you how a, when you're on the team, there's, it's an open book, man. Like, I even let my team decide their bonuses. I tell them, I'm like, how do you think you performed over the last month or two weeks? Was it 25, 50, 75 or 100? And I'm, I'm not gonna fight you. If you tell me 100%, that's fine. And I'll tell the team in the next meeting, I'll be like, hey, you know, this guy told me that he was at 100% the last few weeks. So, you know, if you guys want to like, continue doing this, like, like, it's, it's not, it's not like, it's not like in that kind of like shun you approach. But what I'm actually, to be honest, my team, literally everybody goes 75 to 100, like every single time. But. And 75 is like, most of them will say 75 because they know that 100 means like, like, I must not have been sleeping, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

But it creates a culture of like high performance and it creates a culture of like, you know, if you're a misfit. And I think a lot of like the Internet sensationalizes kind of like, I'm going to drop out of college, do whatever I want. I'm going to be a schlub and I'm going to try to get a company off the Internet money. And like, I think that's like kind of what it promotes. And I think that to be successful, that's not what works. Like, I think your team has to be, you know, all on the same mindset. Everybody's got to be focused. Everybody's got to get the toxins out of their body and laser it on. And like, yeah, I think that's what creates, that's what differentiates us. Everybody knows that the watches team goes hard.

Yeah, that's great. I love it. Jake. Well, before we wrap up here, I think not only have I learned a lot from this conversation about the product and how you view your team and the company as a Whole. But what are you most excited about? Looking forward and then where is the best place that everyone watching or listening can stay up to date with everything that you have going on?

Yeah, absolutely. Most excited for this exchange to come live. I think I'm really convinced it's just going to change the way people interact with watches. I think the industry is going to be severely disrupted. I think everybody that's right now knowledgeable about watches, currently sells watches, currently buys watches or has a lot of money in watches, is going to be far more successful going into the future. From our product, I hope that what we create inspires the major players out there. The watch boxes, the Chrono 24s of the world. I hope that they try to move into a direction that's more similar to what we're doing. I hope that the IRL traders and jewelers also adopt what we're doing and try to move in this direction because I think what we're doing gives the industry the biggest opportunity, the biggest upside. So I'm just excited to see like the world change from it and then to get connected for one my personal Instagram. If you have any questions or you just want to chop it up or stay connected to the journey from more of a behind the scenes approach, anybody can reach out to me and I'll typically respond. And then in terms of the company, it's watches on Instagram, oatches on TikTok, watches IO on Twitter and then the domains watches IO and you know, there's customer service concierge at the bottom. There's a sell a watch cta. So you can, you know, sell us your watch. Yeah, any, any way that you want to stay connected.

Yeah. And I'll make sure to, to link that all below. I mean you can't miss it. Oatches on Instagram. Come on.

The best.

Well, Jake, just before we wrap up here, I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today. I really appreciate you and all the information. Everyone that's listening or watching, make sure you go check out Watches IO Go give Jake a follow. Follow at Watches. And once again, Jake, thanks so much for being here today, dude.

Thank you for having me, man. And congratulations on the success of the show. It's an honor to be on it. The list of people that you've had. Epic.

Thank you.

Congrats on everything and thank you.