Joe Foster - Founder of Reebok

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What is going on everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. On today's episode we have a very, very special guest, Joe Foster, the co founder of Reebok. On today's show we talked about how he was able to build and scale Reebok to a multi billion dollar internationally known brand. And it's fascinating because he's 85 years old, he was born in 1935 and to listen to him with his wisdom on business and just life. Overall, I left the interview not only so much smarter but but happy because to hear his story, to hear what he's working on now, was just incredible. And if you don't already know, his new book, Shoemaker is out now, so make sure you get a copy. I will make sure to link it down below. You can actually order signed copies, so make sure you check that out. But before we get into the podcast, please share this episode with a friend. This was one of the most incredible interviews that I've ever done and and I'm sure you are going to love it as well. So please let me know what you think. Shoot me a DM on Instagram @ Casey. And remember, leave a rating and review on itunes. It means the absolute world. And with that being said, enjoy today's podcast with the founder of Reebok, Joe Foster. What is going on everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. On today's episode we have a very, very special guest, Joe Foster, the co founder of Reebok. Thanks so much for coming on. Joe.

Hello. Yes, it's a long time since now. We did co found Reebok, but of course writing the book has brought back a lot of memories.

Absolutely.

And it's been good to do.

Totally. So Joe, first off, it's a pleasure to have you on the podcast. I've been looking forward to this for quite some time and you have quite the story and the journey, but I'd love to just Touch on the book first. I know that we talked about it before we jumped onto the podcast. Your new book, Shoemaker. What inspired you to write this book? Because I know it just got published and everyone's loving it. I see you guys posting on your Instagram stories all day. What inspired you to write this book?

Well, many people have said, joe, why don't you write your story? And I sort of retired from active participation in Reebok in 1990. So it's a long time and it's about 30 years ago. But I started writing this seven years ago. And the reason was that so many people said, why don't you write your book? It's a good story. And there are so many, should we say, stories out globally with Wikipedia, which are incorrect. They do things, they say, well, you changed the name of the existing foster company. No, we didn't. And so I think what the book will do, hopefully what it will do, and it seems to be doing itself, it puts the story straight. It takes us way, way back, back to 1895, when my grandfather made a pair of shoes for himself.

Wow. So let's talk about that. Your grandfather, 1895, he started fostering sons. Can you talk to me about your grandfather and what inspired him to initially make some of the first athletic shoes?

Well, my grandfather, he was a member of the local athletic club. He liked running. He wasn't a big guy, he wasn't a good runner, but he enjoyed running. He's probably sort of midfield in his distance, whatever that was. I think it was about probably half mile miles, something like that. But his grandfather called Sam, he had a cobbler. Well, he was a cobbler in Nottingham, and Nottingham is sort of central uk, and he used to go down, visit his grandfather, who was repairing shoes, and amongst them were cricket boots. Now, cricket boots had spikes in the bottom. And Joe must have said to Sam, why have they got spikes in the bottom of these boots, granddad? And he probably said, well, it gives them grip when they're on the grass and they're bowling or they're batting. Oh, right. Now, taking this knowledge back with him, Job himself decided he preferred to be a cobbler than to work in his father's business, which was confectionery. So he set his little complex business up in his father's bedroom, up in his bedroom in his father's house. And he made his own pair of shoes, his own running shoes. And this was in those days, wherever he got his knowledge from, whether he'd seen other spike running shoes or it was just from these cricket boots. But he certainly pioneered the shoes and he was so anxious to get his first pair done that he's. And he hand sold these. He hand sold the clump. The clump is where you put the spikes at the front. And he hand sold one on and he nailed the other one on. So off he went. And of course he didn't win this race, but he, he moved up the. The order very much. In fact, I think on one event he even got second, which sort of irritated his club mates, his teammates, and they so. Well, whether they sort of bullied him or whether, whether they just politely asked him that, could we have a pair of those shoes, Joe? Yeah, but that's when he started and he was very good. By 1904, we're talking 1895. Six years later he had a real good business and he actually, I don't really gave shoes to Alfred Shrub. Alf Shrub was a. A sort of an internationally well known runner who brought three world records in one event.

Wow. With his shoes.

Wearing Joe's shoes.

Wow.

And he, he went on from there because he learned very soon that you've got to have influences. And if you give shoes to the right people, for him, it would influence other people to buy them and wear them. Yeah. Of course, we had. World War I intervened in his business when he started to repair army boots for a while. But back then, his Bellypop was the 1920s. In 1920 itself, he had an arrangement with the Olympics and he supplied the Olympics in Antwerp. All the teams. He supplied all the teams. So way back then, we go on to 1924 then, where he had two people. Well, he had lots of gold medals, but two in particular. One was Eric Liddell and the other one was Harold Abrahams. And in 1928 he had Lord Burleigh also one. Now, those three names, I don't know if you know them, but they were the athletes that the film Chariots of Fire was about.

Okay.

So he actually made the shoes for the guys they got going and those guys are immortalized now in that film Chariots of Fire.

That is amazing. That is quite the story there.

It is in itself. And to think that, see, in those days, yes, he influenced athletes to wear his shoes. But today we've moved forward where you need the same influences. But now because of, well, because of technology, everything has moved on. And these influences now are influencing the sports product to become street. Yeah, street. They become fashion.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and you know, we're talking 100 years ago when your grandfather started this, this first sneaker and then you and your brother. When you guys started Reebok, to starting it and continuing the heritage, to becoming the number one sneaker brand in the world. You have such a journey that you've been through. But when you guys started, like, what was the goal when you started Reebok? Because I'm sure you weren't saying, hey, I want 80% of the US to wear my shoes and to be a multi billion dollar global brand, or was that the goal? I'd love to just hear some of the early inspiration of when you guys started Reebok.

Why wouldn't that be a dream? When you go, it doesn't work like that, does it, really? Because you can see into the future only if you've got a crystal ball. And even then you're very lucky if you can come out with an answer. So everything is done step by step. Our problem was for Jeff and myself, we joined the foster company early on. I had 12 months only in the company before we went to national service. National service, it's compulsory in those days and there's two years in 1953, both Jeff and myself went into the forces. We came out in 1955, much wiser, much sort of having the freedom, you know, no mother, no father. You've got to look after yourself. You learn an awful lot. And we came out and we're horrified to find a failing company. They were just going nowhere. They were still making the same shoes that Grandfather had made in the 20s and 30s. And they hadn't moved on. They had no marketing plans, no. They had no salesmen, they had no design teams. They just continued to make the same shoes. And we were horrified. And try as we did, and we did, we tried hard. Come on, we've got to move this company along. Adidas. Look at him. Jeff was in Germany and he had seen Adidas and Plumer and he seen how they were progressing. Ah, where were we going? Nowhere. So out of necessity, we said, we've got to change. My father said, look, this company is going to be yours when I'm gone. Oh, well, look, dad, number one, we don't want you to go. But number two is this company will be dead long before you are. And that's the truth. So we couldn't make them move, though. But really the problem was they didn't really get on with each other. A bit like Adi Dassler and Rudy Dassler. Rudy left and set up Puma. That allowed both companies to grow, but they just thought they feuded and nothing happened. So in 1958, we did. We young, indestructible, we could do anything. Left the company and set up our own company to make our name in sports shoes. And we started off as Mercury Sports Footwear. And so we found we couldn't use the name Mercury because you have to register it.

Yeah.

Otherwise anybody can jump in there and start making shoes. And that in itself is a fun story. It's in the book. And we ended up with Reebok. Why reebok? Well, in 1943, think about it. It's a long time ago. Indeed. During World War II, I won a running event, 80 yard sprint. And the prize was a dictionary, a Webster's dictionary. And Webster's Dictionary is American dictionary. And we had to find a new name. And I'm leafing through this and I like the letter R. I thought, that's good, strong letter to start your name with. And leafing through, I came across the word Reebok. R.E be okay. A small South African gazelle. Well, we're a running company. Sounds pretty good. That fits in quite nicely. So, and, and although an agent had said, look, you've got to, you've got to give us at least half a dozen names because when you put them through the registrar process, you'll find a lot of them are registered. But this one came out. However they put it into the, in part two of the register. Reason why they put in part two, he said, well, if anybody comes to me and says I'm making running shoes out of Reebok skin, I can't stop that. So for 20 years we were in part two, but after 20 years. Yeah. He came back to us and said, we've moved you into part one because Reebok now is a shoe. It's not an animal.

Yeah, I love that. What were some of the lessons that you've learned that you'd want to pass on to entrepreneurs today through your, through your journey with Reebok? Because you guys have accomplished, you guys accomplished so much and continue to do so. But there's so many lessons that I'm sure you've learned along your journey that I'm just so fascinated by because I, I grew up playing hockey. I would wear the Reebok skates and then I was wearing the zigzags back in the day. And you guys have just such a monumental brand. But what are some of the lessons that you'd want to give to an entrepreneur today through your. Not only 85 years of life, but through building Reebok?

Well, I think you've got to start with. In those early days, athletics was a very small sort of business. In the uk the big business was football, or soccer, if you want to call it that way. That was a big business. That was the one that influenced a lot of people. It was a spectator sport, and so many spectators, plus so many people used to participate. Athletics. No. Bit more refined, not as much. But in America, every university, every college had coach, and coach was God. You went to college because you were a good athlete, not because you were that academic. The athlete. The sports side was very important. In 1968, I went across my first NSGA show in Chicago. Cold, really cold, but that was my first one. Met a lot of people and they said, where do we get your shoes from? And I said, england. New England? No, not New England. Well, so they would have bought my product and that would have been okay, but unfortunately I needed a distributor. I needed to get the shoes in. It was 1979 and that followed the design. We had a design of the Aztec. The Aztec got five stars in Runner's World. Runner's World was driving that market. And Runners World drove it from a small business to a massive business, the Runners market. When you got five stars, that was the key. So if you say, what is your lesson for anybody? Keep focused, keep trying, don't give up. But you've got to seize the opportunity when it comes. And actually looking around, you've got to recognize that there's an opportunity there. If you don't keep your. If you don't recognize anything, you won't make anything, but you've got to recognize it. And so spotting the opportunity is probably the most important thing. And then you've got to keep with it. Plus you've got to have passion. You've really got a passion with it. When we picked up the name Reebok and took this to the registrants with all the others, and I said, look, this is the one I want. Because we've got to be in love with it. Yeah, it's got to be what we live every day for. And so these things work for you. So. And it's your luck. There's a lot of luck there. The running market being at the time when we were the starting. So recognize your luck. And I mean, today is so much in technology. And I think that's. There are so many opportunities now at technology. And now we have COVID 19. It's forcing that technology. It's probably moved on 10 years totally. If we'd have no Covid and it's going to go more and it's brilliant. So that's what I say to people, entrepreneurs who are looking around. Keep looking, keep focusing.

Absolutely. And when it comes to your passion for Reebok, when you guys were starting to really scale globally, what were some of the, I would say, strategies you used back then that led to a worldwide global brand? Because not many businesses not only get to that level, but I'm sure you've had some critical moments when it comes to going from a smaller brand to being recognized globally. And what would you say that moment was?

The obvious moment was aerobics. That was it. And the person there was Angel Martinez and he was the guy. He was a tech rep at the time in Los Angeles. We were doing nice, do good business with the running business. But his wife Frankie, she was going to these aerobic classes with her girlfriends and she was coming back, she was brilliant. Love this great stuff. So we thought there must be something in this. And he joined her in one of the classes. Muddy founders. The instructor was wearing sort of tennis shoes or running shoes and half of the class were doing the same. The other half had no shoes at all. So light bulb moment. He had it. Why don't we produce a nice soft glove like shoe for this aerobics exercise which was to music. And so he went over to see Paul Fireman who was operating the USA distribution. And Paul said, no, no, no, a few girls dancing around in shoes. We've got a good business with this, with the running shoes. We're doing very nicely, we don't need that. But Arnold was a bit more persistent and he went round the back, knocked on the door of the production people and sort of talked them into, into them producing for him 200 pairs which he distributed in Los Angeles, all those Auroric people. And this was picked up because this, the first time women had had a shoe, a sports shoe specifically for them. Reebok were doing nicely. But Reebok were not known like Adidas, like Nike. They were known to be male sweaty. Well, this was for girls. We beautiful glove leather, nice glove leather. Anywhere else in the world, we'd have been out of business. Down there in California, the girls loved it so much they didn't care that those first shoes just fell apart because glove leather doesn't really stand up to wearing it as a shoe. Oh, well that, that became, how can we say, we got over that one. The different tannins, different leathers and still had the same nice soft feel, but it just went street and you had Sigourney Weaver wearing them in Aliens. And who was the other girl in the Emmys? I've got Linda Evans. All of a sudden the. The stars started wearing the shoes. So we didn't have much of a strategy. And what was happening is that all of a sudden Rigamot got pulled along, became the woman's shoe and as such, all women wanted love this shoe. We then moved into tennis as well. And Wendell Niles, who was well known in California, he knew everybody in Hollywood. And he got us into a pro celebrity event in Monte Carlo, which was the Princess Grace foundation, and then that. And you know, who doesn't like to go to Monte Carlo? So all these people were invited. John Forsyth, Roger Moore, Sean Connery. There were so many of the stars used to come along. So the whole thing became glitz. We became part of Hollywood. Yeah, yeah. So there was no real strategy.

Yeah, yeah. It is the way events unraveled.

It did. It just unraveled. It ran the company. We went from $9 million revenue to $30 million revenue to $90 million revenue to $300 million to $900 million in successive years. So this is how the company grew so quickly and became number one. They overtook Adidas, overtook Nike, and at that moment of time, sort of the second half of the 80s, that Reebok were number one.

Yeah. Wow. That is. That's incredible. When you guys went through that growth phase of going from 9 million to 900 million to a billion dollar company, what was your main day to day and how are you, you know, managing people? Because you guys did that so flawlessly based on the journey and how you guys were able to become so successful. But where was your time being spent per personally and how are you able to deal with that level of growth?

Well, you can imagine when you get a company that size, this is not Joel Foster, this is team people. There's a lot of people with Paul Feynman, Arnold Martin, there's all these people. And you have to think that team people work on this. I mean, the biggest thing when you think that sort of growth is we'd overcome the problem of financing it. That was done with. Even though that was a hard job to do. You can imagine how do you finance that sort of growth, but how do you get the product which factory can suddenly turn on that sort of volume? And again, we just got to run our luck here because at that time, Nike just ran into a wall. They all companies seem to just stutter and lose something. And Nike lost quite a lot. They had to pull out a couple of factories. And. And so Reebok managed to do that. So, I mean, that's. That's. That's the sort of time and you can't organize.

Yeah, totally.

That just has to be your luck. And we had a lot of luck with that. For me, by that. By now, I. I've really gone into international, and I am traveling the globe probably three times a year, building the international distribution. So I was putting on different countries, wherever they were around the world, and I traveled an awful lot. I spent quite a bit of time in America, of course, because it was important. But what was really important is that we had Paul Fireman concentrated on America. The minute you take your eye off the ball, it's the minute you lose it. So we really needed Paul to keep the focus. His focus was to build the USA market. And the rest was easy for me because the USA market itself is such an influence for the rest of the world. They all look to America. And so it made my job very easy. I had to go around there just selecting people.

Yeah, yeah. When it comes to working with Paul, how did you guys meet? What was the story there?

Well, that was back in 1979. We had just got the Aztec for 1978. We actually produced that for the Commonwealth Games in Edmonton, and it did really well. We got some really good gold medals after that. And so in 1979, NSGA, that's in February 1979, we had the gold range as part center, part of our offering. And Paul at Kmart as well, came along to sort of say, look, we. We'd like to have your shoes. But also Paul came along. So I had these people. And what. What I did then is, of course, we went on from the show and I came back to the USA in May of 1979, went to see Kmart. He was willing to give me an order of 25,000 purse. Our factory in Bolton couldn't handle that. But I knew that that would be the situation once we started selling shoes in usa, we would need to find more production. I'd already found out with Barter. Barter would make shoes for me. And I was already talking to people who represented the Far east production in South Korea. So we had that all fixed because also came out, the guy said, yeah, we're 25,000 pairs, but we need them cheaper. We need a better price. Okay. So I left there and went back, went across to Boston to meet up with Paul Fireman again. And Paul, he really wanted it, but he said, joe, we really need that five stars. But that runner's World could give us. And I said, don't worry, Paul, I'm sure we're going to get five stars. We spent well. I had to go back again and it was August when the issue came out, the Runners World issue came out and I phoned Paul midday for me, about 7 o' clock in the morning for Paul. I don't think I got him out of bed, but he was a bit dozy and I said, paul, Paul, go down to the kiosk and get one of these Runners World as soon as you can. About an hour later, when he came back and he called back Joe, he said, aztec brilliant. Five stars. That was it. I mean, it was like somebody. The golden key. We had it. He said, but not only that, your other two shoes, they also got five stars. Wow. One was a spike and the other one's racing shoe. So. So we had three five stars. So there you go, there's the key. And that's what really started Paul off.

That is amazing. And speaking of that, I believe Paul was CEO for 26 years, is that correct?

Something like that.

Something like that. When it comes to leadership and building that level of a company, what would you say makes a great leader? And how do you identify a great leader in your own organization?

I think a great leader has to have a team and he has to get his team and they all have to have ownership. They all got to feel the same.

Okay, ownership in the company.

Yeah, you've got to feel, you've got to have the passion. You're not just working for a job. This is a passion. You've all got the same goal and a good leader will build that team and he'll listen to that team because you can't do everything yourself. In fact, you know, taking a step back, I was once told that if you're the boss, you should be doing nothing. The other people should be doing it and you should be free to listen, to learn and to help. You tell people, look, don't bring me problems, bring me answers. And if there's. If we've got two answers and we need to decide, then we'll get together and we'll decide. And so, you know, your man at the top has to listen, has to be part of the team and it's something that is working, working together. That's the only way you can do it.

I love that speaking on something you brought up earlier, just competition in business, when it comes to, you know, you guys are going head in hand with Nike and Adidas and all these massive brands what was your experience with competition and how do you stay ahead of competition in your business?

Well, whilst we were there, I think this is one of the things that we probably didn't take enough care of because the business was running us and we were growing that fast that we didn't even think about Nike or Adidas. It was, how do we produce this many shoes? How can we keep on doing it? How can we keep. And it was pulling us along. So I think staying ahead, I think that's one of the problems really, why Reebok is not as visible today, because I think we forgot at that point that we needed to move on. The company is well respected, it has good business. But when you compare it now to Nike and Adidas, it's quite small. But I mean, it's still a big business. It's still in the billions.

Yes, got it. That makes sense. When it comes to, I know, like for example, doing these different influencer celebrity brand endorsements with Allen Iverson. I know that was a very prominent moment for Reebok as a brand. I actually have a basketball signed by Allen Iverson, but I wanted to bring that up. Like, what was the importance of doing like high level deals with someone like Allen Iverson and how, how impactful was that for the business?

Well, I think you just need to look at this. We also had Shaq o'. Neal. And what happens is these are the influencers. These are the people who not only influence others to perform in the shoes, they also spill over onto the street. They create the fashion.

Totally.

And Allen Iverson is still there and so is Shaka Neal. But now with Reebok now being part of Adidas, the sort of selectivity on which, which sport, which category, you know, who you going to, where you can do. And of course, the latest signing is Wonder Woman, Gal Gadot. I mean, that's the latest one. And that is, I think that is reinforcing the position that Reebok took with women that the Ariana Grande. Yep. Again, you know, there's another era and Gigi did this, this enforcing the, the female side that Reebok really grew with. But they, they're the people that, that influence the street. And that's where the volume is. And, and that's when you are sports driven companies, but you're fashion companies. Yeah. And Adidas and Nike and Reebok are fashion companies now.

When do you think that change took place? Because me as someone, I'm 20 years old and I totally agree with you, where it's like you see the hottest Nikes or the hottest Reeboks or whatever it is Adidas and it's a fashion statement at the end of the day, right? Like, when was that change and when did you really realize that as a, as not only people that are making shoes, but now fashion items that people love and wear?

Well, when my grandfather started to use his influences at that point, performance was performance and it didn't spill over onto the street. It was a progression. I think it started. I first saw it with Adidas when Adidas were supplying so many football teams in the uk, soccer teams in the UK and they then started to do the ships. So there were replica shirts and all the kids started wearing the replica shirts of their favorite team. And that is a massive business. But if you expand upon that on that idea that people see these sports stars and they want to wear the same clothes and then it comes to shoes and we now have so many means of seeing the product at one time. You only saw the product if you, if you went to a football stadium or in a retail store. Now, I mean, everything, Amazon, you just look at that everything now. Covid, let's move that along. And so we look at television now. It's so many ways now of seeing a product, so it's so much different, but you've got to see it on people and see those people wearing it. And that's where the, where the endorsement comes in and the influence. And we see now that most. Well, such a lot of clothing that people wear now is sports driven. Even super brands, the French super brands now are sports driven. You've still got Louis Vuitton, you've still got the. The name's doctor, but they produce something that looks like a sports shoe. So it's been going there. We started off in late 1950s and there's been many recessions around the world for different various reasons, but we never had one. And the sports industry has never had a recession. It's because it's always been driving forward. People have more time. You've got other things that robotics, you got AI. These things are taking over and giving you more time. And as people get more time, they want to participate more, they want to do more things that sports driven.

Yeah, I love that. I have two more questions before we wrap up, Joe, and one is just you're talking a lot about just other topics as well. AI and Amazon and E commerce. And you're such a sharp thinker, looking into the future. Where do you spend your time now and what are you excited about right now? During this point in your life?

Well, I spend my time. I used to spend my time traveling. Although when I retired, I said, look, this is it. I'm so tired of being at 50 at 30,000ft and traveling all the time. Yeah. But I traveled a lot on my own. And I've said since retiring that don't give me a ticket. I need to. I'm not traveling on my own anymore. Yeah, I do travel well. Me and my wife, we travel through Europe a lot. We drive into Europe because I have so many friends.

Yeah.

You know, France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland and Greece. We spend time with these people. It's nice to sit down, relax, have a drink, remember the good old days. Totally. That's what I do with my time.

I love it. I love it. Last question before we wrap up here. One of them is, what does success mean to you and what do you want the legacy of Reebok to. To be?

Well, the legacy of Reebok, I think that we. I'd love to see Reebok being accepted. I think it is already accepted as a major brand and a major player. Yeah. Not only in performance, but also in fashion and street. So for the brand, I think that legacy is there and that's what I love to see. The other thing for me is I'd like people to enjoy reading my book.

Absolutely.

And enjoy the journey that I had and the adventure. Some sad. A lot. Brilliant. And something you can't relive because it's so unique.

Absolutely. And for everyone listening today, your new book, Shoemaker. Where is the best place that people can buy this book and read it? Because I know I'm excited to read it and I've been seeing you guys post all about it on social media and I'm super excited to get my hands on it. But where's the best place that someone can buy your book so that they can read it?

Well, it will very soon be available in major sport, in major bookshops and Amazon. But if they want a signed copy. Yes, because of COVID they can only get that from me. And we've had hundreds of requests for that and to do it. And that is on our website, which is JW Foster Heritage.com and so if anybody wants a signed copy and they can get. Get it from. From the website.

Totally.

Well, otherwise it's out now. I think it's out on audio. It's certainly out in Europe and other places. But I think there's just been a bit of a delay taking USA and Canada.

Totally. Well, Joe, I will make sure to link that all down below. I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It was such a pleasure having you on.

That's been fun. It really has. And I thank you very much.

Thank you.

Yes. Great.

Awesome. You got it.

Excellent.

That was wonderful. Thank you so much.

Monarch Legacy of Monsters. An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me, the most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

My God. Go, go, go.

Monarch Legacy of Monsters. Streaming November 17th only on Apple TV.

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