John Geiger & Sean Davis - Luxury Has No Price Point

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by John Geiger and Sean Davis. Thank you guys so much for coming to show today.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

Thanks for having me. My first podcast ever.

First podcast ever. How are you feeling?

It's the first podcast.

I don't even know how to talk into a mic.

Just stay close.

He's usually behind the scenes, so this is kind of cool, for sure. Takes a lot of pressure off of me.

Absolutely.

No, I mean, it's. It's so cool because I feel like we've obviously spent time together, but known each other for years, but we haven't really had the opportunity to sit down and, like, dive into the brand, your story. So I'm excited to have you guys on today. Thanks so much.

Yeah, we've been, you know, we've been following your story probably before anybody. 2017, I'd say maybe a little bit earlier.

2018.

17. 18. Right in there. I was 17 then. So I was. I was just getting the. I remember things rolling.

Yeah.

I was like, who is this aggressive little kid?

It's crazy because, like, John Geiger, the brand. And like, you guys as well, you've been such a part of my journey where, I don't know if you remember, but when I interviewed Larry King, you know, I had my suit on and I was rocking the. The 11 Geigers. And I remember my. My friend Kieran at the time, like, they were at my apartment, and he flew out because he was going to be at the Larry King interview. And not only did I just always love the brand, but I just. I truly love what you guys are building and how, you know, growing up as an athlete, seeing all these big secret brands and just fashion brands, just, you guys have something special. And I've always gravitated towards it, and I want you guys to know that. But for people that may not be familiar, like John Geiger, the brand, like, where did this story begin in terms of you guys meeting and then obviously coming together to. To build what John Geiger goes today.

You tell the story.

Yeah. So my background's a little bit unique. I was a sports agent for 10 years or longer, and I still am in basketball. So in John being from Pittsburgh, we have. We were both from Pittsburgh and kind of like, Pittsburgh is like that kind of place, like, where it's like, if you're doing something, you know the other person.

Yeah.

Like, everybody kind of knows what everybody's doing if you're, like, coming out of the city. So I knew of him. I didn't know him, but we had mutual friends and we happened to meet at a music listening party.

Okay.

To a group that never made it. They didn't make great guys. But anyway, we met there, and I was like, man, he walked out. He's pretty cool, you know, so. But he was. The time he was in. He was in sports at the time or getting into sports, he was finishing college. And I was already had, like, started my career, and, like, I was already doing pretty well in it, and. And I was just like, hey, we should. We should. We should kind of work together. Like, let me just not work together, but, like, let's just be friends. Like, let me show you the ropes. Let me just see. Like, this is some ways you can go and, and, and navigate being in sports. And we just naturally built, like, a friendship off of that.

Yeah.

So, like, to fast forward, like, we were just friends for a long time. And John was, you know, doing his thing in, like, in fashion. And I didn't really know anything about fashion or shoes, especially because I was kind of green to the whole thing. And. But my athletes that I represented at the time would come to me and they'd see and they'd be like, yo, you know, like, you know John Geiger?

Yeah.

Like, why? Like, yeah, it's my, like, course. Yeah, man. Like, can you give me these shoes? I'm like, like, really, Like, I didn't, like, understand, like, the magnitude of what he was doing. And then it really hit me. We went to Art Basel together, 2014.

Wow. 2013. 14.

2014.

I got Art Basel in, like, 2011.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

You've been at this very.

Yeah, yeah, he's been. Yeah. For a while. So we went to art Basel together, 2014. And wow. People were coming to him saying, hey, could we get a picture? This is, like, before, like, influencing and, like, influencers and, like, people were really, like, blown up also.

That was like, right at the turning point. Like, I cat on social media. The 2013. I was 13. And, like, that's when I started, like, what is this world?

It's crazy.

Yeah.

Because you weren't like. It was like, people didn't really, like, know who from social media. It was, like, kind of weird at the time. And. And people were taking pictures of them. Like, can I get a picture? I was like, yeah. He's like, no, I'm telling you, like, what? I'm. I'm doing something. I'm like, oh, yeah. Kind of clicked.

I was like, but you guys are just friends. Like, there's no business association at all. You guys are like, oh, I got.

Him on the phone. The people hit him the phone, like, take pictures. And he was like, okay, yeah, yeah.

That'S so, like, shot.

Guzzy was, like, performing at the time. He had, like, a big hit. It was at some, like, random, like, okay, like house party type of thing.

Yeah, yeah. When we go into. Anytime we take a yacht out in Miami, we drive by the house. I instantly remember it.

Yeah.

Because of that. And. Yeah. So he was dropping the misplaced checks, and they were going nuts.

Customs, basically, at that time.

Yeah.

People are not familiar with the misplaced checks. It was. He had this vision for this idea to. To. I can tell a little bit about it.

Yeah.

He had a vision to. To customize a Nike. And he. And he had this idea that he put together, putting multiple checks on a shoe. And at the time, customizing wasn't huge. It was like, no, but it wasn't big. And he was selling them for, like, the Air Force ones for, like, $500, which. Which was nuts. And he was now, I mean. And they just went nuts. Selling out, instantly.

Wow. Yeah.

So I, like, was this.

And I'm curious, like, from your perspective, John, at the time, and, like, before diving into your store as a designer, are you selling them on social media or how is that going down?

I basically just made a. A website, which. It's funny, we still own it to this day. It was called what has he done for Society? Because I was trying to get blogs to pick up the story about them in space checks. And one of the guys from one of the biggest blogs. I'm not gonna throw him under the bus, but he had made a comment to one of my friends was like, what has he done for society? And it was like this whole, like. But you don't see what's going on at the time. So that was the website. Made the website. I think the first time I dropped only, like, 30 pairs, but they were. They were gone in, like, a second.

Yeah.

And that was 2000 2013. Going to 14. Wow. Right around there. Somewhere around the time. And the two people that bought them were Ocho Cinco and Tiana Taylor.

How do they.

I mean, me and Tana go back a little bit farther, but Ocho Cinco, that was the first time that I've met him outside of being around Revis.

Yeah.

And they bought them and that. I mean, we're still all three of us to this day. Still. Yeah.

Wow.

So that was kind of cool.

That's crazy. I mean.

Yeah.

Talk about Just leveraging social. The Internet back in that day to that day to sell things. That's early.

Yeah.

And that's the thing with like, with John. Like, John was like.

He's.

I don't know how to say. It's like not a lame, but he's always cool. Like before fashion, he was just cool.

Yeah. I mean, if you look at. We were just talking about the influencer thing and we talked about this priority. What's super crazy about the whole thing that just had passed with Nike and stuff like that was Nike was sending me boxes of Shoes in 2013, 2014, that clients that I was working with at the time weren't getting those. And everybody that just couldn't understand why. And at the time, you didn't. I didn't understand. I didn't care. What was cool for me was I got a box of unreleased Jordans or LeBron's at the time was. Were big.

Yeah.

I would post them and it would help my following. But at the time I was realizing that that was just the. The break of an influencer.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Like, I would never get a free box of shoes now from a brand, obviously. But at that time, that's what I was getting those and I wasn't putting two together. I was just using that leverage to like tease shoes. And all the blogs that post the pictures of that, repost them, because they were the first time I seen them.

Yeah.

Nike would send me these big boxes of unreleased shoes and I would just wear them and. Yeah, that's how the following started.

How did like, how was Nike, like, take us back to like, the origin of what led you to wanting to get into design and get into sneakers and, you know, have the opportunity where Nike's sending you out shoes. Like, how did that all start for you?

I mean, being just into sneakers in general. That goes back to childhood. We talked about it prior to this was music videos.

Y.

So music videos really influenced like my flash. My fashion influence. So I remember coming home in like third or fourth grade, my dad being like just Snoop Doggs on the front of the bike and he was wearing the Penguins. I'm from Pittsburgh.

Yeah.

And he had his hair out and stuff. Like, I wanted to dress like that. I think it was around that time, that age that I really like, clicked like fashion for me. So it'll always be like early. Yeah. Whatever was in. I went through like my jersey phases. I went like wearing big jerseys. I went through all the phases that, you know, everybody went through. But I would always, like, mix and match them. And I moved around a lot in Pittsburgh. So, you know, from. From third grade, all until graduating college, I went to seven different schools.

Wow.

Around Pittsburgh. So that also influenced different genres of, like, communities of, like, you know, how, you know, like, different. At one point, I was wearing Gap.

Okay.

You know, my first day of school, Keystone Oaks, in eighth grade. Let's say that was a more like predominantly white school.

Yeah.

And I went in there wearing, like, a Barry Sanders jersey and Tim's.

Yeah.

Because I just came from Pittsburgh. Bloomfield, for sure. And then everybody would, like, make fun of me, so I'd have to adapt. And, like, I went into a member of wearing, like, Old Navy and Gap. Yeah. But I knew it wasn't me, bro. I knew it wasn't me. So when I left that school, I couldn't wait to like, not be in that crowd anymore. But fast forward to maybe, like, 2012. Am I going off topic?

No, no, no.

I think I'm just laughing at the.

Fact I'd never heard this story. Fixing you in Gap clothes.

Capital Navy was big my eighth grade year, going into ninth grade. So Keystone Oaks. Yeah. It was predominantly white school. But fast forward to working with Nike was. I was working with Dwar Rivas, and I was basically taking over his, like, management roles, which at the time, again, there was no. Athletes didn't have managers. Now they do. I remember getting made fun of, like, you're not an agent. What are you doing for this guy? But at the time, I had. We had Nike, Motorola, Google because of him, and then Land Rover. So within maybe, like, you know, a year of working with him, I was going to dinners, and then we would meet someone from Land Rover. We'd get a deal.

Yeah.

But the biggest thing for me was every time he had Nike meetings, I would go to Oregon with him. And at that time, that's when I realized that the business side of footwear.

Yeah.

And around 2011, 2012, they. Nike started working on his own silhouette, which was going to be the Nike Zoom reavis1.

Yep.

And prior to that, why it was so big was Michael Vick was the. The person before him that football would get their own shoe. You know, football in the US is football, but worldwide, it's soccer. So football for Nike was the bottom of total because they were, you know, helmets. So they're. So he was going to get his own shoe. And I went to these meetings, and it was called the Nike Zoom Revis one. I would get my input every day, and slowly, you Started seeing, like, I would go there more, they would have me come there more. Now they're having me come without Darrell. Then they started sending boxes, giving my opinion.

Wow.

Yeah. So the misplaced checks was right around the end of being like, okay, I want to do all this stuff, like, give them too many ideas. And, you know, they just weren't giving me the feedback I wanted. So I was like, I'm gonna do it on my own.

Yeah.

You know, and that's when the custom thing starts. I'll say around 2012 is when, you know, when I meant Trent Casper and Ken Link from Nike. Ken was really known for all LeBron's. And then Trent. Now is that New Balance. Those are the two people that, like, influenced me to, like, understand the business at Nike Footwear. And then I went into customs, basically. And then 2014, 15 is when he basically was like, why don't you just make your own shoe? And John Geiger was born in like 2016. I gave you, like, so much information at once. I probably missed a million things. But a time frame is like, early to early 2011. Twelve was working with Nike. And then that's when they started giving me so many, like, shoes and ideas and feeding it. And then that's what led to customs because they wouldn't let me actually design anything.

Yeah.

You know, I started getting ahead of myself.

Sure.

You're like, yeah, yeah.

And it's crazy because neither of us had any entrepreneurial experience. Like, it wasn't like, hey, I'm. I'm like, I know how to run a business. And he like. And he's the creative and like, let's figure this out. Like, no, I went to John and I was like, hey, we should do your own shooting. He's like, yeah, we shouldn't. He's like, how? I'm like, I don't know. We'll figure it out.

And that's also. That's also the thing too. So you have no entrepreneurial background in both of our families. Pittsburgh, blue collar.

Yeah, me neither.

But not even fashion from Pittsburgh. It's not like I came from New York or. Yeah, Louisiana or anything. So coming from Pittsburgh, being in fashion is like, unheard of. You know, we had Andy Warhol. We have rappers and musicians or athletes that come from Pittsburgh, but none of the arts have ever came Pittsburgh besides like Andy Warhol. So that was like my. That's who I looked at. Like, that's what I wanted, you know.

Break up and where I went to high school. It's kind of crazy with the plum. Right. It's like, outside of super Fun Home, Pat McAfee and the Sticks, that's our claim to fame. Now.

I've been. I'm only in Pittsburgh, like, once. I don't really know the city that well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a good city. It's growing. It's just a very, very blue collar, like, for sure. But where I went to high school is like, fashion is not a thing. Like, okay, fashion is not a thing. But one of my friends from high school is the principal now.

Yeah.

And he was telling me, he was like, you know, like, when I wore my John Geiger stick, all the kids come up to me and talk about it. Like, I can't believe that I know him. And I'm like, yeah, I know him. And he's like. He said when he first. When we went to school, we went to school, nobody. Nobody would go to school for fashion. No guys ever. He said now there's about 15 a year.

Wow.

That are influenced from John. They go to. They go to school. Like, Kent State's a big one. So, I mean, that's like, the type of influence it's had on the city so far.

That's incredible.

And even with that, it's still hard to get, like, the Steelers, the Pirates to get on board and the Penguins to get on board. It's just like. And that's what I fight for. For John.

Yeah.

Because, like, fighting for, like, hey, like, this influence you can have on the city, this influence you can have on this, on, like, the organization and trying to make things cool and up to date, but even the city alone is just so far behind. It's so, like, untraditional or traditional. Sorry.

For sure. And I want to ask, like, coming from a down, like Pittsburgh, where you're saying, like, not much fashion is coming out of there, and then you're going to Basel and you get all these people taking pictures of you. When was the moment for you when, you know, you started rocking your own stuff out and people started recognizing, like, that early brand recognition. Like, when did that start happening? Because you launched the brand 2014, 2015. Like, how does the next, like, two, three years play out in terms of the business, but also brand recognition and also, too, like, when I first saw the brand. You guys have just done an incredible job at not only getting celebrities to wear them, but your relationships and your background working in sports has just paid off in an incredible way where so many celebrities are wearing the shoes. And I'd love to dive into that in terms of, like, the early days of getting celebrities to wear the shoes, seeding the product and. And obviously creating that brand recognition.

Yeah.

I don't even know. I don't. I guess that goes. I mean, having friends that are celebrities probably go back to, like, 2008, 2009, because I was. I was becoming friends with, like, Mac was coming up.

Yeah.

Wiz was there. Big Sean.

Yep.

Like, I was going to, you know, in 2009, 2010, I was going. Driving to Detroit and going to hang out. Big Sean before he was, like, signed to, like. And I think one of the things. I think. Cool.

Yeah.

I think one. I think one of the things. And it was fashion driven because at the time, if I. I remember coming to LA because Reevis, we were. He was gonna play in the Pro bowl, and we always stayed in LA for, like, a couple days and then flew to Hawaii. And I remember, like, texting Big Sean. He'd be like, we're going to this vintage place at the time. It's called Tisa, which is Taz Arnold. He works with Virgil now. Rest in peace. But did work Virgil. And that was really big at the time. And I was, like, putting him onto other spots that had it. And Big Sean, me and him became cool because of, like, the fashion.

Yeah.

Decide. So everybody in his camp, we would stay in contact. The same thing with Matt coming up.

Wow.

Yeah.

So, yeah, fashion was the bridge.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

I think to kind of answer that, too, is, like, it's organic. Like, John, for sure, is the most organic, non Corny person you ever meet. Like, he will not do something that is not authentic, and he'll not, like, you know, because you see that now people do anything for relationships and do things and anything to get somebody to wear their shoes. And, like, he just won't do it. And he's just very, very authentic about his relationships and people that he meets. And I think people get on board with that. You know, I think people, like, relate to him for that and like him because then he's always been like that. Yeah.

Where do you. Because I completely agree. Where do you believe John, like, that authenticity comes from? Like, is it something that, like, from early childhood, like. How do you define authenticity in your approach to building a brand?

I think is going back to probably Pittsburgh, like, blue collar, Steel City. Like, you know, get it from the grind and stuff like that. I think. What was the terminology we said, like, grinding the.

We're no different. Oh, designing the grind.

Yeah. Designing the grind was like, our, like, saying for a Little bit. So I think it comes from that, you know.

Yeah.

Like I said, I moved around a lot, so those different. Even though it was considered Pittsburgh in a whole, you know, that many different schools. Imagine being. Imagine me. Have you went to a new school? No, actually. But could you imagine going to.

Could you imagine moving across the family's ever sitting here? We're not moving.

Yeah. Could you imagine going to a whole new store and starting over, like, every couple years?

It's actually my mom on the flip side that her. My grandfather military, so he was. She was like, seven schools, so she was like, we're going to stick to one. Because she experienced that, and it was hard.

So it was sometimes Catholic public, you know, it was a rural area or more, you know, so it was always different. I think that's where it came from.

Yeah.

The whole, like, how the way I thought about even our business moving forward and the way I thought about designing was probably from where I came from.

Absolutely. That's incredible. So you brought up Mac. I obviously loved Mac and his music still do. And you were in one of his early music videos. And I remember when I was first, like, hearing about the brand, and then I put two and two together. Talk to me about both of you. Like, the relationship with Mac, how that originated. Obviously, like, you're talking about Big Sean and all these people, and there's that organic, authentic relationship that stems from just a passion, you know, mutual passion for fashion, but, like, high school. Yeah. Talk to me about that.

So for whatever. I don't say, for whatever reason, Reavis really at the time was, you know, the Revis island days was, you know, he's in his prime in New York.

Yeah.

I just think that he, like, conquered being that good at football that he, like, wanted to do something else. And the other thing was music. He was just obsessed with music. So when that happened, I guess what. I was in college at the time. I was. I was going to be a senior in college. So he just. He was in his second year in a league. So what happened was I was in Pittsburgh in college, and I was getting on an elevator, and a guy got off. His name was Q, so his name is known as, like, Interview Q. But Q now was working with Maca. Time was their best friends.

Yeah.

And he got off. I was like, yo, you're John Gaga. He's like, oh, you're. You're friends of Revis. I'm like, yeah, I'm still in school. And he was like, I have this artist I'm working with. Like, can. Can you just listen to his music and, like, blah, blah? I'm like, yeah, whatever, you know, okay.

Yeah.

Some big time with him, and he. And then he was like, hey, Max, gonna do this event later today. And it just so happened that Big Sean was doing the event there, too. Like, he was. His rollout or something like that.

Yeah.

So I was like, oh, cool. Like, I'm gonna set this perfect. I'm gonna be. I'm gonna see Big Sean. I'm gonna then meet Mac or whatever Mac there were. I knew he was white already. Okay. But a lot of people didn't. So he was really good. Talented. So then when Q gave me the cd, he was like, how could you help me, like, push him forward? I'm like, the only way I know is if Revis with him. So Darrell came home for. He had, like, a off week. And I was like, rental car. I think I pick him in the airport. We had, like, rental car, whatever in Pittsburgh. He was going to go to Aliquip, but anyway, we're going to go in the city and go out. And I was like, just listen to this dude. I was like, don't say nothing. Just listen. Don't ask no questions. Listen. He was like, who is this? I'm like, he's white. He's like, there's no way. He's like, can we get him right now? I was like, he's in school. He's like, tomorrow. Can we go?

Like, so Max in.

He's in high school.

He broke when he was.

Yeah. So I. Wow. I contact Q, and I remember Q being like, we can get the studio. It was called ID Labs at the time. It was. That's where, like, Whiz recorded Christian orange juice.

Yeah.

So we had ID Labs, and. And, you know, Darrell's first thing was like, let's make a song together. Which I think it's still on YouTube. You can look it up. Yeah, they made a song. So. So the only way that I knew that, how I could try to help Q and Mac was to do it through him. Because, you know, to me, I was nobody. So I think, like, the next day, Q says that he's gonna leave school and we're gonna meet there. They do a song together. They hit it off like, bro. Like, bros. Like, bromance type of thing. You know, it's the Ralph Revis. He's in high school. And, you know.

Of course.

You ever hear that. You see the now, the lyrics. Reevis Take me Shop when I'm in New York, Nike's on my feet. So, yeah, so there's. There's bars. And now you piece it all together. That's how it worked. And at the time, like, a week later, I'm in stone Pittsburgh. Max, like, you want to come to, like, a video shoot? And Rex Arrow was now big, who shut all his videos. Like, be in Max house at, like, 6am and I have a flight that day to go see Darrell play. And this is a really funny story, but, like, this is like, three days later. So I go to the house at his mom's house, by the way. Wow. They're in, like, Squirrel Hill. It's like, a little shady side of Squirrel area. And I get to the house, and there's like, no one's there. And, you know, I have this, like, challenger, and they're gonna use it in the video. And I had, like, rims on the challenger. Red Challenger. It was probably in the videos you're talking about. And Q comes out. He was like. He was like, you. Do you have any condoms? I'm like, what? You know, I'm sitting in the car waiting for this shit. I'm, like, gonna be in their video. Like, I feel like I'm, like, bigger than them, you know? And Matt comes running out, like, in his boxes, like, yo, can you drive me up the store real quick? I'm like, what do you mean? He was like. He's like, we had a bunch of girls over, and I ate condoms or something. I was like, you're there for the music video. I'm just to be in the music video, you know? I'm, like, a lot older. Like 10 years. Like, 12 years older than the kid. And I'm like, okay. So we go to the store. He was like, we're gonna shoot the video in, like, a couple hours. Just sit the house. I'm sitting outside his, like, mom's house in a car, waiting to be, like, in the video.

Yeah.

And this dude just wanted to go get condoms because they had a bunch of girls.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. So that was, like, the start of, like, Mac. And then I guess. I guess your. Your question was, like, farther down the line was.

Yeah.

Just took them under our wing, basically. Yeah, I think we just took them under our. This is my perspective. Yeah. When the big turnaround was. We had again, I think it was the following year. Revis was in the Pro bowl every year. So we do LA for so many days. And we brought Max. And Max, mom calls me, was like, please don't let him do anything, like, wrong. I think she was going to say. She was saying no at first. And then I remember, like, me and Q's relationship was kind of rocky because they. I think that he thought, like, we're trying to take them, you know, because we're paying for everybody's flights. I think we paid for Max and Mac come to la. And that's when we met, like, Rush from records and everything like that. That's when you knew he was a superstar, that we stayed at the W Hotel.

Yeah.

And the next day, we got a call. I got a call to my room. They were like, hey, this. This kid that's staying in the other rooms is under Darrell's, like, credit card. I like, you need to go talk to him. And we went to the room and it was just like. It was like. I knew he was a rock star at the time. It was like he was smoking cigarettes in there. Like, I'm like, you can't smoke cigarettes in the hotel. You know, I was like, the media person. Yeah. And what happened, like, directly after that, like, a long story short, was we had taken him to go. He met with, like, Lil Wayne, met a bunch of people.

Wow.

And then, from my. From my standpoint was like, it started getting rocky because Revis's agents then realized how talented he was and was trying to maneuver the. Bring him through, like, Little Wayne and their. And their people. And I didn't understand business, and I didn't know how to, like, be like, you know, I'm gonna help you. And then also, it was rocky with them because, you know, they were sorting how they were gonna get signed. So we met with Russian records. We met Benji, and Benji had Wiz at the time, and they were like, they don't want. They don't want Mac. Because he. He sounded just like Wiz. So.

Wow.

That was like, that. That's crazy. This is a very big thing, so. Which I'm so cool to all these people now, but at the time, it was a little bit weird. So a week later, Matt calls me. He's like, I signed Russian records. I'm like, you already signed the papers. He's like, yeah, we signed Russian records. And it. For me, it was like. That was like. Yeah, there was a couple years where, like, we didn't speak and stuff. It's not because of, like, no business stuff. It's just because he blew up after that. I mean, when he was in the cities and stuff like that. But recently, when I moved back to la, that's when we became cool again.

Wow.

Yeah.

I'm close you know?

Yeah. Close again.

It's crazy because in this. In this, like, I know I was like a part, like a. A side note in this whole story, because I was. I saw the whole thing.

Yeah.

Unfold. And. And I'm. I'm in sports, I'm in business. I'm signing. Like, I'm. I'm active at this time, so I'm like, yo, John, like. Like, if this gives me big, like, you should. You should like, you know, negotiate a deal for yourself and stay involved in his career. And he's like, look, Sean, I don't want no money from him. I don't want anything from him. All I want is to make sure me and him stay friends. That's all I care about. I'm like, you're stupid.

But, I mean, authenticity.

True story, though. Yeah. He really was. I was like, dang. I guess, I mean, like I said, when I go being like you said, authentic.

And this is the context. So what. What year was this? Like, were you guys. Yeah. What year was that in terms of 2009, 2010? Okay.

When he, like, really, really blew up. Yeah, I'll say right around then. And then, like I said, when he, like, really, really, really blew up. We didn't, you know, we did. We did punked for MTV. It was like 2011.

Yeah.

So I think right around, like, when I go to la, we would see each other, but it wasn't like, on, like, every day talking. But that happens, you know, for sure. But for me, it was kind of like I just felt like that's like my little brother. I felt like I was helping him, but, you know, there's many other people trying to do the same thing. Yeah.

Yeah.

But recently, when moved. When I moved back to la. Recipes, whatever. But when I moved back to la, that's when we were gonna, like, I was gonna help him with merch and stuff like that. And that sucks.

So, yeah.

Night that he was. I remember he was gone there the night that he passed. He was going to. So he was at his house.

Yeah, we went over. We went over all the merch for his tour. Tour.

Wow.

And then I left and I was going to Fashion Week the next morning to la. And I was on the plane and Q called me, was like, it's true. Yeah.

I remember him.

Like, that's a. Literally the night affect you guys and you. And just how did. What was that experience like, as someone that, you know, you met him so young.

Right.

I think that is such a unique way to, like, you know, build a friendship. And then see him grow his career. Like, what was. Talk us through that moment and how it affected you professionally?

I think. I mean, I think it was really cool that we got to become cool again.

Yeah.

And he was starting to push the brands that I was, you know, making at time, and I feel like he would have been the person, like, really, really pushing now.

Yeah.

But I was gonna say we had a.

We had a release.

Maybe that's what I was gonna say, that the next day, we had a release for. We did Fashion Week, and that's when we did Patron of the New, and we had Voltager 2s. And that's when the brand, like, really, really took off. So it was like, that happened the next day. The brand took off.

The.

The next day was a video OBJ comes out, even though he had pairs of them dancing. And the video goes viral. Shoes are reselling for, like, 2, $3,000 on. On StockX. It's the next day.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

But to answer your question, on how it, like, impacted him, too, like, I know him as a friend. You be around him. But, like, it's crazy because you see, like, him, like, him go through so much, and he lost, like, a lot of close friends. And, like, that one, I know, hit him super hard. But, like, he. You don't really, like, talk about it.

Yeah.

You know, and then it'll just, like, break down one day.

I mean, not. I mean.

Yeah, just come out, but, like, because that stuff's hard. Like, it's just hard. It's, like, hard to process.

Absolutely. Rest in peace, Mac. We love you. Yeah, talk to us. Like, talk to me about the brand today. Like, it's from knowing you guys in 2017, 2018, and seeing all of the collabs and just the impact you've made on the culture. It's been incredible. Like, talk to me about how you guys operate today as partners. Like, that process as partners, coming from the background of, like, hey, let's just start this business. No background of, you know, launching companies. Like, what have been some of the moments that you've learned the most and just bring us up to speed to, like, how you guys think about the business today.

Most importantly, the thing is, I don't design. I don't make any comments on design. I don't say anything about design.

Yeah.

Like, I have to. And I've learned that, too. Like, and. And that's why we work well together, is because he's the creative. He, you know, he's the designer, he's marketing. He's he's the whole creative space, and I'm in the business side and I have to. I have to stay focused on, like, that's what I do. And even though, like, as a. As a partner, like, you, you know, you still have comments and stuff to say, but sometimes I need to just shut up because, like, you don't.

You.

You really have to understand, like, he's a creative and he can be moved really easily by the wrong comment, the wrong thing, the wrong say, and you have to just let him. Just let that transcribe. So to answer your question, like, the reason why we do well is because we know our roles.

Yeah.

I think that's where a lot of people get into business and they make really bad, like, oh, he's a bad partner. No, maybe not just. But he says it's just too much alike.

Yeah.

And I think, like, there's this book called Rocket Fuel that's really great. Right.

I haven't read it.

Yeah.

Rocket Fuel. And it just. It talks about how every business needs to have a creative and a visionary. I'm sorry, in a visionary and in, like a connector, like somebody who. Who can get things done and someone who can create the vision. So that's kind of.

I mean, that's. You know, everybody says, like, don't go in business with your friends. Yeah, this is the only business that's worked out. None of the other ones exist.

I don't see, like, Media kids. My last software company launched one of my best friends. And it's. It's so ironic because we lived together for, like, two, three years, Best friends for four years, didn't do an ounce of business together. And then when I moved out to LA and moved in with Jacqueline, that's when we started working together. And I feel like it was like this blessing in disguise of if we lived in the same place in business, it probably would have been significantly more challenging versus, you know, having that space to think and to really work through different things we're going through. But it's so cool to see you guys how the partnership has grown and been successful.

I personally have a strong opinions on that because people say, don't go in business with your friends. I question more, is that really your friend? Because I think if you go into business with your friends, like, I have his best interest at all times, and he has my best interest all the time. So he can say some super hurtful things and I can say, but it doesn't matter. Like, I know what his true intentions are.

Yeah.

And we just keep it moving.

I mean, a lot of it is in fashion business, let's say. I don't know if I like tech or something, but like fashion would be. Everybody wants to be like this, the designer. The being like called a designer now is like the new like wave of like, you know, when everybody wants to be a rapper, I want to do this or that. So what happens when you have other people trying to give design standpoints? My vision for what I want to do for. That's my name too. So it's kind of like.

Absolutely.

At the end of the day, I'll fight tooth and nail, like to get the design how I want it to be and the push to where I want to be. I'll listen to everybody's input on like how the rollout or what we're going to do. But at the end of the day, I have to do what I want to do. If it's not that and other people have input, then it starts being like they have their vision, you know, so it's kind of like beside butting heads. So I just feel like I don't, I don't say that I won't have like a design team eventually, but it's just so hard.

Yeah.

I just, I just, I don't know if I ever could just walk into a room and be like, yes, no. Yes, no to designs. Because I would be like, ah, no to everything.

Yeah. What. So what have you. What is your creative process like? I wouldn't even know if you said, hey, go design a shoe. I don't even, I wouldn't even know where to start. Like, what is your process from designing footwear to. Then you guys have obviously branched out into other clothing. Like, walk us through that. Right. Like the creative process, how that's changed over time and things kind of just.

Like reinventing the wheel every time. Just because the 001 was our first shoe that came out in 2016. 2017 was like when we launched and we went, we went by this whole like medium. Medium from us was like, there's two ways to look at it. There's a medium of like we want. I really want to take high end quality. So basically I was wearing Jordans that were like lower price. Right. And everybody has them. Or I'd wear like Margiela's, which were like 800, 900. My feet hurt.

Yeah.

So if I can meet this middle. Medium was like, that's why we started everything.

Yeah.

And that medium was kind of like what we led into. What we call it now is luxury. That has no price point because everybody like take like Cartier or something like that. People want it because it's really expensive. A lot of people can't get it. But if that same thing said like, you know, Joe Schmo on it, you might not want it, but it's the same exact thing.

Yeah.

So for us was like meeting this medium of high quality materials but also still affordable and trying to meet these, put it together. We have items that like, you know, there's our twos at 320, 350. Our first shoe was 500, but the GF ones are lower. But all of them have the combination of high materials, good quality. But for the price point of what, you know, production is, absolutely.

I think that that's like, that's incredible. Like the future of the brand is going to be, is based on luxury isn't a price point. And he's, he's been super like, like, like, like strong on that because when he designs something, he's really designing based on quality. Right. He wants the quality. He wants, he wants, he wants something to be every detail, every quality, highest materials, the highest. Like, like everything done in really, really good fashion and like really high quality. But like he's not trying to gouge people for prices like which, which I think now like people do that. They're like, they really just, hey, look, this, I make this crappy product. I make $800 and it's, it's luxury. Look, it's 800. It's because you base it off a.

Number and it like shouldn't be based off of that.

John's like, cut my shoes open next to any other shoe and tell me which one's real luxury. Let's do that. Absolutely. Yeah.

I mean I even look at it like just recently, like even, you know, I'm in the middle, like in the, I'm in between buying cars. I've had a car for like six months traveling.

Yeah.

The world's going on, you know, the APR is up, whatever. No car. And you look at it. I don't know if you're into this, but like, have you seen like the new, like it's a Toyota. The truck, the new truck that's coming out. You see it?

I think, I don't think I have.

So if this Toyota truck said Land Rover on it, everybody would want it. There's a Toyota truck. So these, there's, there's these lower end brands now. Companies that are making super high quality, they look like they would be more. But no one wants them because It's Toyota. And that's what I'm like. You know, that's kind of crazy. It's all it is, is the brand or whatever. Yeah.

So it's kind of like. Like you said, like the brand sticks to a story. You tell him. That's. That's his truth. That's who he is.

Absolutely. What would you say for both of you? What are brands that you're inspired by? Whether that's car brands, fashion brands, any brand. When you look at a brand and what sticks out to you and just what brands impact you and have, you know, paved the way of how you think about it?

That's a great question.

I mean, footwear, I'm have to say, like, you know, Nike or somebody, because look what they started as. But I also think too, that going back to kind of like mixing them together would be those footwear brands that are biggest in the world. I want to be like, biggest. Like, that's what you're doing it for, right? Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to be like the biggest footwear brand, because that comes with a lot. But I want to be known for luxury, for. There's not a price point. That's kind of what I want to be known for.

Yeah.

Let me get a little bit off topic, but what I'm trying to say is. Yeah, but what I'm trying to say is dominated.

What they were great at.

Yeah, exactly. But it's always selling athletics.

Yeah.

Like, we're not. That's why everybody's like, you know, after the loss of the competing thing, like, I'm not competing with Nike ever, let's be honest. But I'm not selling athletics. Like, nothing about our brand is saying, you know, you wear this and you can jump like Michael Jordan. Yeah. I'm saying in fashion lane, if. If the mediums here and our luxury point here and our price points down here, then we're like beating other people out and that's kind of like where we're going to go. It might be a little bit off topic, but that's.

To answer your question, I think a great brand in that. In that space is Lavo Levo. Like, it's, it's affordable. It's like, I think it's super high quality. I think that it's like, I love that space. I like Leilabo.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, it's not. Not, not affordable. A lot of people.

Yeah. But it's not. It's not like it's a luxury to me.

It's a luxury fragrance like Santel 33 LA. Everybody smells the same out, everybody.

I don't even think it's a great brand. I think that they're in a medium space.

Yeah, well, it's not affordable, though. Yeah.

I just think what I want.

Yeah. I wanna.

You brought up.

They hand poured in front of you and put your name on the bottle. It doesn't sound affordable. Right.

How much is like an affordable bottle of. Of cologne?

I have a bottle of Creed. I think it's four.

How much is it?

400.

400.

Do you understand how big the Creed is compared to the bottle?

I'm saying, like, people. I don't. If you're not like, into fragrance, you're not just gonna go wake up on a Tuesday and go buy four or five hundred bottles of cologne. Unless you're like, into it and appreciate.

It, your taste level is different.

Or you got a fiance like I do, Jacqueline, that says buy this, you're like, okay.

Yeah.

But when you buy the Le Labo, you know, it's a little expensive, but it's not crazy expensive.

You.

You feel good about it?

For sure.

I bought something that's quality, that I love, that's not overpriced, but I want to wear it every day. Yeah, that's how I feel.

Yeah, I love that.

I feel you.

So the.

Okay. You got good taste, by the way, by the house. I can tell you I appreciate it.

Paul, Jacqueline over here, she's the designer here. Talk to me about the mindset. And by no means we have to dive into details, but the Nike, the lawsuit, obviously that was, you know, big news complex. All these things, you know, news outlets covered it. How did you guys feel when a lawsuit came across the table? And how did that affect you mentally? Like, disregarding, like, the specifics in the business side of it, like, how did that affect you guys as founders, as partners? And just what was that process like for you guys?

Yeah, never want to go through that again. I thought it was me. Really good pr. And that probably lasted maybe like two weeks and then downhill from there.

Yeah.

Down there. From there.

Yeah. I think that anytime someone goes through a lawsuit, it's. It's the black cloud that hangs over in. The mental toll that it takes on you is. Is tough even if your name's not in the media.

Yeah.

But put your name in the media. Put your name being thrown around in it and where John has to not only take it for the brand, but also take it for himself.

Yeah.

People die hard and, like, they're really live and die with Nike and they have built a beautiful community and, and they take it personal, you know. So, like, I think John felt like the mental aspect of it was really hard for him personally and from being around him.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I mean, but we like just. I'm not trying to throw people on the bus like EA Sports. Right. I mean, you would never think in your. Right. I mean, I guess now think of no.

More.

So I just lost endorsements and stuff that you probably wouldn't think that you would have, but.

Yeah.

Okay.

But also, you know, your health, your health suffers. I know, I know. He, he.

Yeah, I gained a lot of weight.

Yeah.

I recently lost it, thank God. But yeah, yeah, it was, I didn't even realize I was putting it on. It was just like stress. I was stressing.

How long? Because it's, it's done now.

Yeah.

Two years.

Two years.

Let me tell you something.

It happens after the two years is the lawsuit. It still hurt after the fact.

Yeah.

To this day a little bit. Yeah.

Let me tell you something though. Watching him, he. This is one thing I want to do in my life. I want to gain a whole bunch of weight and then lose it because you're like instantly a hero. Like, everybody's like, yo, you're. You look amazing. You're instantly good looking.

Got my teeth done.

But John, like, it's crazy to see his transformation is like. And then we talk about mental health and we'll transition, like to physical health. Like, physical health. I for sure see his physical health change and impact him as a designer. Like, it's a direct impact. So, like, imagine if you're out of weight or overweight and you see yourself and you're not looking in the mirror and seeing being happy with yourself. You're not going to design it.

I mean, my probably my biggest insecurity is weight.

Okay.

My whole life, really.

So, yeah. Growing up, like.

Yeah. Always fluctuated. Yeah.

Wow.

I've done just about every pill you would think of. I've even thought about surgeries. I've tried to go there, you know.

Yeah.

So now it's like, you know, we're both on our like super health kick now. Trying to like, you know, I'm a big.

What does that look like in terms of like, how do you approach health, I think nowadays. Right. Like with social media and the abundance of, you know, people that are putting out content about how to be healthy. Yes. There could be lots of misinformation and you can take things however you want. Like what's your approach to health now and how has it changed over time?

Like, for me, it's hard to speak on it because I'm like, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not saying, like, this is the route to go or anything like that. Right.

I'm just curious.

Like, I mean, I do believe in fasting. I think when I first started losing weight, a lot of it was fasting.

Yeah.

So not eating until like 12. Yep. And then once I started fasting and, you know, being more active, I was even like, I wasn't working out. Like, she's. She's a gym girl.

Okay.

And. And she eats. There's a regimen that she eats and protein. All stuff. I was just like. It's funny because we have the saying, like, I only work out the fit. Designer clothes. But that was my thing of, like, I. I never really wanted to, like, get bulky. I didn't want to walk around with shirt on, like six pack and stuff, like, look like you, you know? Yeah. So never me. I just felt like I wanted to be thin. So when I took pictures or do these. So if in the past two years, if you've ever asked me to do a podcast, it wouldn't matter who it was. I probably say no because I would never want to be on film.

Really.

On camera. Yeah. That's why I never did them.

Yeah.

There was a point where I didn't post pictures of myself.

Wow.

Yeah. So it was a big insecurity. But for me, fasting was.

Yeah.

I still teeter with, like, not trying to drink as much. You know, I. It just a lot of things going on. So you're traveling, going. Everybody wants to have a drink, you know.

Yeah, of course.

And then just being active now, it's not even me going to run or out. Maybe go for a run or something like that. There's me walking the dog three times a day.

Yeah.

And I started realizing, like, did my steps.

10,000 steps, like 9,000.

10,000 steps. I'm like, holy.

And I would.

Then I would put on a pair of pants from months ago, and it was big. I'm like, whoa. And then we had a whole other. I had a whole other wardrobe now because I kept all the old clothes.

Absolutely. Yeah.

So I don't know, it just boosted my, like, wow.

Sorry to cut you. But the answer, like, his condensed that too. I think for him, like, routine, having a good routine and consistent schedule. Like, I even see it now, like living with his. His. His girlfriend, who she, you know, they have Their. She has her job, and she's at work all day. And then he knows, like, I'm working from this hour to this hour, and I'm. I'm focused, and then that's what I'm getting done. That's what I'm doing. Then boom. But if it's, like, not a schedule, like, if I send him, like, a sky. Yesterday, I sent him a schedule for.

What we were going to do, changing it on. Right.

All I did was. Literally, all I did was swap, like, the days.

Like, whole day. Ms. My who?

No.

Two days ago, he gave me a schedule. Three days ago. Gave me a schedule two days ago when I landed, he moved them, but told me, like, 11pm okay. And I'm like, just. I'm a little crazy sometimes. I'm like, I'm not even doing nothing now. He's like, why? Like, you changed the whole schedule? Didn't even tell me. He's like, all I did was move the days. I'm like, yeah, but I had dinner set up. I had this set up.

Everything literally changed nothing.

It changes everything.

It.

No, but it's in my mindset of, like, what we got to do.

So.

Yeah.

So health.

You. Once you say something, you don't. You don't like the aspect of it just changing, Changing. Okay.

I'm the guy that plans, like, flights and stuff. Like, he'll. You don't have a flight home. He'll do it the day of.

I'm on your team.

I have to have.

I have to have on your team. I'm like, yeah, we might go to Denver Monday. It's Friday.

That's how I am. I mean, I was being a sports agent. Like, I just go, go, go, boom, boom, boom, boom. Navigate, navigate, navigate. But. But, like, yeah, the routine thing for him.

And wait, you can go back to, like, four days ago, there's a movie premiere, and I was gonna get paid to, like, show up in parents, and it was in L. A.

Okay.

So I had to come a day early, and they offered a certain amount of money, and I was. I told him. I'm like, you know, first of all, this doesn't look something I would do.

Yeah.

On top of I just want to mess up my schedule. I was gonna. You know the day when I, like, wrapped the shoes in yellow tape and stuff for the content for the rollout. Yeah, I was doing it that day, and the tape was coming, and I was like, if I have to leave that, I can't get that video for our rollout next week for a Certain amount of money to go to LA a day early. I was like, I'd rather just not do it. Yeah.

Wow.

Just to mess up the schedule. Yeah. I do it. Yeah.

And for me to deal with him, I do breath work every day.

Yeah. Being in Puerto Rico is like a whole other wave.

I want to talk about this. You guys are still full time Puerto Rico.

Yeah.

Right.

Wow. That's.

When did that change? When did you move to Puerto Rico led to that decision?

2019. We moved there. We had some of our business partners and friends that were living there. And at the time he was single and it was just. It just felt like a good move and.

Yeah.

You know, a little more culture there.

For my birthday.

Yeah, we went for his birthday and we loved it.

We got our business partner and the living.

Yeah.

I'm like, wait, you guys live here?

Yeah.

It's incredible. I went out there and he showed us around and did the whole thing.

Golf courses.

Golf course. Wow. So Puerto Rico, six months out the year and then you're traveling the rest?

Pretty much. It's crazy because I think both of us being from Pittsburgh, we don't grow up with much culture. It's like white or black, like, that's it. And I think just having like a new culture is inspiring, I would say. And just seeing how other people live and just meeting new, different people that aren't really.

Yeah. I have my places. We like to eat there.

Yeah.

I have a vintage store there. Backdoor vintage. They have their own San Juan. There's sneaker stores that we go to.

Actually might be coming out in the next, like, month and a half.

Yeah.

Let you guys know.

Yeah, we'll have to set some. Set some good times up there.

Sure.

Yeah. That also helps with the health because, I mean, who doesn't want to get out and walk near a beach or, oh, my God, you know, go for a run or. The dogs love it, you know.

Yeah.

It's almost like it helps with my mental. And then it helps with, like, health. It helps me get away from everything.

Yeah.

You know, like, you're in the US but you're just not.

Yeah, it's different. It's definitely different. What are some, like, when it comes to, like, speaking of schedules, daily routines, like, what are some things you guys do every day that sort of. Whether that's in business or personal life? For me, you know, it's something new in my life. The past six months is cold plunge. And I do that for mainly, like, mental health purposes. It's just, I don't know if you guys ever. Have you done cold plunge?

Yeah. Yeah.

For me, like, the compound effect of it is just incredible. Like if you're having a bad day or meeting gets canceled, you're pissed off. Instead of thinking those thoughts, hop in the cold bunch and you can't think about anything else. It's like a reset. So for you guys, do you have like a specific routine or like daily non negotiables that you follow?

Yeah, you go first.

Mine's breath work every day. Really? I have to breath work. I do the Iceman Hoff method, which is building up to being able to do cold bass.

Yeah.

Cold plunges, which I do some but I can't get to. I can't go below like 48 yet or 45. Like on a long. You can. And then on podcasts. So your podcast have a couple other ones that I listen to and I think that puts me in like a therapeutic, like mental growth state. Mind state where you're just taking information. So I mean, I genuinely love like listening to podcasts.

That's great.

And then walks. I was fasting all last year, which I still do a little bit of, but I, I went more in like a weight gain journey and then fitness, working out and then for the ladies.

Yeah.

Trying to get buff. And then. And then also just making sure that John doesn't yell at me.

I mean. Yeah, I mean, it's crazy because mine's more like just like walks and stuff. The dog.

Yeah.

So there's. I don't think anything else. Right. Horrible at this. I think just more of just being active. But mine's more business stuff like every day now that we are like going back in the full collections, there's just so much more items. So.

Yeah.

You know, he has a flannel right now. Yeah. So there's. Yeah, there's, you know, there's numerous items now that have to be, you know, fall, winter, we're shown again in January. So now we're like working on a whole new collection that. And we show in January, but it won't be in retail until the following.

Okay.

Winter. You get what I'm saying? So it's a year ahead and then, you know, footwear is in El Salvador. We have our phone calls every day. So I think working on something new every day. I think maybe that's maybe something that I at it.

Absolutely.

Any. Any creative too is like if you're not working on something new, they're going to go nuts.

It's so funny. You said yesterday I had Dane Cook on the show and you know, he's had his comedy tour, he's doing Madison Square Garden. And he says the biggest pleasure in his life is the ability to wake up and just do something new. Have that blank canvas to think about like new ideas, new things, new projects. And that's someone that, you know, was absolute legend in their field. And I think it speaks to like that creative act.

That's my luxury.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

It's like come up with ideas and actually get made. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's. I never really thought about it. Yeah, that's it.

I love it.

Yeah.

What do you got? Like when you think about the future is the plan to have like retail stores all over the globe or how do you guys think about the brand long term as partners, but also just the impact. Right. Because I feel like there's. You guys are in such a unique place with so many directions you can go and that's. That leads to hard decisions. Like what's the right thing to do? Right. What's the long play? Like the future of the brand. Where do you see it moving and shifting and what excites you the most?

New products for me, I think again getting back in the full collections, but more footwear models, that goes into the business side, you know, as we grow, that goes to the finances. So I can't make new silhouettes every couple months because that takes a lot of money to do, you know.

Sure.

So it's a business side of like balancing it. I think we're going to probably have what, like a real raise. Yeah, stuff like that.

Or eventually we'll be able to get that. But in the short term to build to the long term. And then John always says this, he's like, not everybody has to be, you know, these luxury. Like the traditional route.

Yeah.

I think like our route will be continuing to build our dtc.

Yeah.

Direct to consumer, which is. Which is a good space for us to continue to provide like high level products for high quality products, luxuries and price point for a good price and then. And then start building these relationships with stores and retail because he never really did retail and then grow via retail. But John, so unique and so versatile. Like the more I can provide him with resources to be able to just focus on design. Because right now he does design, does marketing, he does all these different things more than I can keep providing him with like the ability to grow. Like we can expand a lot of ways. We can expand in the home goods, we can expand into real estate. Like we could really grow out a lot of ways, but from the fashion standpoint, it's like building this, this really foundation of shoes, but also like clothes and, and just building like kind of a world, a world like view of the brand.

Because we have, we're introducing women's handbags in the next month and a half. So it's like. Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Yeah. Pretty sure you know all about it.

Yeah. Yes, absolutely. The last three years for sure. Like when you guys put on a job, like things sell out in seconds. They talk to me about building culture within the brand. Like the way you guys have gone about it with your social media presence, you have such a die hard fan base and I'm sure like young designers or aspiring designers watching this, like, if you were to give yourself, your younger self a piece of advice, starting a brand 20, 23, like, where does your mind go and what advice do you have for people that want to start brands, that want to build a community? Because it's a rare thing to be able to create incredible products the way you do and then sell out pretty much every time to this incredible community. And it's, you know, you guys have just been at it for a long time and have built the knowledge and the experience. But what's your advice to young designers looking to launch a brand today?

You want to take this?

Yeah. I mean, I think there's like two ways of. I'm going to answer this. One is being that fashion right now is so viewed as like, you see these fashion weeks and you see the Runway shows and stuff like that. And not everybody has to be that. You know, you can, you can have a brand and you can do well in life and you can be under the radar. And not even under the radar, but you can get into retail stores, you can build it up and slowly build it up. I think everybody wants to go from like A to Z really quick. And that's like a long term thing. You know, we've been doing this for how long now? I've been in footwear for like 10 years, right?

Yeah.

So I think just like build something that you're going to stand on and not try to like just jump ship when it goes south. Because I mean, we could jump ship any time.

Absolutely.

I think for, for me, it's, there's probably endless advice because we came into this kind of like blindfolded. We don't have any mentors, we don't have anybody that looks over us and says, hey, or, or father figure family members that are like, hey, like this, how you do this, how you run a business, how you do things. So, like, we've. We came in straight blindfolded, which is. Which I think is unique in a lot of these spaces. A lot of people usually, like, they have it and they have somebody that's kind of guiding them. But I think. I think my advice would be to a. To my younger self would to be continue to create a space that John can focus on what he does and design it for real. Like, I think that the design element and creating new element and letting him do that is the most important advice that I could have myself. And because that's how the brand's gonna go is going. It's based off of him.

Yeah.

And he's the talent. That's why we work well together. Because I'm an agent at heart, so I know I roll, you know, but.

Also a kid that's starting out that doesn't have anything like. Like, I didn't. You know, I'm saying we. We come from Pittsburgh. You have social media now, so it's kind of like half the battle is just showing something, you know?

Yeah.

You can delete it after you don't like it. Deleted after. I mean, I put up reels and either doesn't do what I thought I was gonna do, or it's not as good later. Just take it on.

Totally.

Yeah. So it's like just getting it started and getting going. But I think, like I said, everybody thinks that they're gonna be like, tomorrow, they're gonna be like Michael Mary. And it's like, you're not gonna have a Runway show next week in Paris, bro. It's not, you know, so it's just. Yeah. And you also. You don't have to be those bigger brands. You can be small and grow and.

You know, really the only other, like, designer I've had on the podcast, you know, kid Super.

Yeah.

So I had him on years ago, and it's been cool to see, like, what he's.

Yeah, he's blown up a lot of years.

Insane. Where is it gonna go? Just.

What about you?

What.

What would you give?

Oh, my younger self, dude. The biggest thing that I always go back to is, like doing 400 plus interviews. Right. You kind of hear these similar themes of things. And I have a. It's this four words that I live by, and it's on this, like, plaque, trophy upstairs, where context on it real quick is I was almost paralyzed playing football when I was 16. So I have this. I was in a neck brace for six months, and I made this neck brace into, like, a trophy. And it says four words. It says, keep going, never quit. And as cliche as that may be, I just think that every great individual, great company, they just kept going, like, through the failures, through the ups and downs, through people don't care. And if you just do that, like, you're bound to. I don't want to say succeed at the highest levels, but you just got to keep the ball moving. So many people stop, and that's just. They're bound for failure.

If you just stop and never been around for, like, 10 years. You've seen so many people, like, fall off or, like, start something else and follow them, do, like, other things.

Yeah.

And it's like, I guess it's. Since it's my name to, like, there's no other.

For sure.

Other avenues. We're going here. This is it, you know? So I think they're like, was that a.

Was that a. I'm curious, like, was it when you were launching the brand, obviously, remember, you didn't want to do John Geiger. Was that.

At first, he didn't want the name to be my name.

You didn't?

Nah.

Again, I didn't. I didn't know anything about fashion. Okay. I knew nothing. I mean, I literally came in not knowing anything. I didn't even know. Like, I'll never forget, whenever I could, when I was an agent, I couldn't dress. I didn't know anything about shoes. And Iman Shumper, Iman shopper with my client, shout out to him on Shumper, because I learned everything about fashion. I'm early from him, and I'd be like, bro, how does this look? How does this look? He's like, yo, stop asking me that. How does it feel? How does that feel on you? And. Oh, I get it now. So, like, now, like, going to. That is. Yeah, like, like learning. I lost my train of thought on that.

I want to bring up someone that I. That I love so much. He's been just a great friend and just supporters. Will Zomback, their whole team. And I have a couple more questions for wrap up here, but talk to me about that relationship, like Wiz, Will, and just the Pittsburgh days, because I think, like, you guys represent Pittsburgh and just knowing them now and getting to know Will over the years and him supporting as an investor and just as a friend, it's been incredible. And I know you guys are super close there. So we're back. Does that relationship go Will?

I mean, pretty far? Probably like 2007, 2008. Oh, wow. I think Will was still in college at the time, but Will has a very similar coming into, you know, his role. Because I was working with Dura Reeves at the time. Yeah, he was with. Now it's just cool to see Will just, like, grow up and be, like, older and, you know. You know, I don't explain it, just. I just want to laugh because every time I see him, we just, like, look at each other and start, like, laughing. Talk about old stories or where they're going. And it's cool to see him, like, be like, the boss, you know?

Yeah.

For so many times, he was, you know, like the road manager and then, you know, the manager and now he's like, the guy. Yeah, absolutely. That's really cool to see. Yeah.

Just like a little bit of growth at a time. Yeah. Staying consistent. Staying with the consistent people, like you said, and just watching them just grow a little bit. Grow, grow, grow.

Yeah.

And he though. He's one of those guys that has not changed at all.

No, none.

He is. He is who he is. And I love that for him. For him, because that's. That's hard to find, especially the. The rooms that he's been in and the places that he's been and he's just.

I think like a year and a half ago, I wanted to, like, throw out the first pitch of Pirates game. And I think the. How we got in touch with them. When I talked to him one time, I'm like, dude, they're not, like, answering or something. He's like, I'll make a call. And I think that person ended up talking to Sean after, but that was the initial. He was like, I'll make it. I gotta make a call.

I love Will.

Yeah.

For sure.

This episode is brought to you by Head and Shoulders, Casey's hair.

Care. Holler at me. We'll do a partnership.

I'm gonna need some tips.

For sure. When you guys think about. Not only feature the brand, but, like, as individuals and personal growth, like, what's important to you outside of, you know, you live in this world of, like, business. Business being a creative. Like, how do you balance work, life just. And giving yourself that space to be able to create in a world where there's so much. You know, people burn up. People go through these hard situations in business that just destroyed them. And it's. It's. It's easy to lose yourself in that process and, you know, whether that's. Fall into depression and like, managing everything. So I want to end on this note of just like managing your time as humans and making sure that you're improving and just staying not only true to your roots, but managing work life.

In a sense, I'm not great at it, but I'm trying. I'm trying. Especially our relationship.

Yeah.

What? My friendship with our business relationship, family. I mean, trying.

Yeah.

It's not easy.

That's all you can do.

Yeah. I think for. For like, as a. As a business, the most important thing is to make sure that I always have his best interest and he always has my best interests.

Yeah, for sure.

You know, as long as you keep that same mentality, then you can. You always get on board with whatever's going on and have understanding and communication, good communication, that. But like, personally, and that's a struggle for us because we care so much. And I think that's something we're still trying to figure out. So if you have advice for us, you tell us because I think it's just. We just want to work all the time. We want it to be successful, so. And put a lot of pressure on yourself. So. But I think that's like, probably the biggest thing is just don't put so much pressure on yourself.

Yeah.

So much easier to say than to do.

Yeah.

There's a guy who was. Was a good friend, but he passed away a couple of years ago. Trevor Moad. He had a. He was the brain trainer to Russell Wilson.

Dude, I know him, you know.

Oh, yeah, he was an im.

He was at IMG Sports. Whenever I was training, when I was training my athletes, there he was at img and he actually met him one time. He won't remember.

Trevor Moad. Yeah, he was incredible.

Yeah, he was great.

He spoke in an event that I did one time with Drama and we had Rob Dyrdek in there and he had a quote. He has a T shirt. I have it upstairs. It says pressure is a privilege. And that was the quote that he tried to instill into all of his athletes. But also in the context of business too. It's like you live in this immense state of pressure. Sometimes you put it on yourself. But he was like, his book is just world class and rest in peace to him. But just that aspect of like pressure to succeed, to move forward, to get better, it's powerful.

Oddly enough, I feel like the being denied or having pressure feels like makes you work better. So it's kind of like one things where, like, I'll complain about it. I really try to complain, but I complain every day. I pretty sure everybody does But I think that it also, like, you know, being denied and being, you know, stressed out. And I feel like it then takes me to, like, another level to, like, do better and some weird sense in my head. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think.

I think I want to end this on a good John Geiger story.

Let's hear it.

Let's go. This could be anything.

I don't know where this is going to fit in the podcast, but I feel like how weird the John Geiger, the designer, was boring. Can I tell the basketball story? High school?

Oh, yeah, go ahead.

I just like to tell the story. I don't know where it's going to.

Fit in here, but telling stories about getting in trouble in my childhood's okay. Getting trouble with my. Yeah. Being adult.

Yeah.

So we're talking about pressure. So John was like. I knew him from. From high school because he was, like, an elite basketball player. He was, like, one of the best high school basketball players in Pittsburgh. White kid, tatted, like, just cocky. You didn't give a.

Only shot threes.

Only shot threes back.

You can dunk best two points.

So. So he. He. He goes the biggest game of his life. He's playing in the. He's playing in the state finals, right? And, you know, high school sports are everything, right? You make it all the way to state, finds a junior, and he's inbounding the ball. It's like a tie game.

That's a video on YouTube.

Yeah, he's inbounding the ball, and, like, all you see is, like, somebody, somebody. Oh, you know, he says he. He claims that the person, like, hit him, like, kind of ball tap them from behind, and all you see him is put the ball in his left hand, turn around, and just start throwing punches at this kid at the bench. An entire brawl breaks out.

No, it's a whole. It's a bench clearing, people running on stands. The whole whole things. People fighting each other.

And then. And then the following year, ends up in jail, I think. I don't even know.

I had to do, like, community service stuff. Oh, my God.

So, like, that was fighting again.

Yeah, that was that. That was it.

From that.

From that.

Oh, my God.

No, no. I was talking to, like, two T1 schools at the time. Never spoke to me again.

That was. We like to say that was the day John Geiger, the designer was born.

But the next year, we go, same team, same place. Hershey Arena, Pennsylvania State championship game. We beat the same team, which would.

Make me think that, like, his ability to handle pressure Was probably birthed from playing sports as a young kid.

Listen, I'll tell you something crazy right? About this. I just thought about this now after that year, I do community service. I do all this stuff and like I remember my Letterman said Geiger real big on the back. I'll go downtown. People would like see it.

Yeah.

And this is really crazy. We came up with a slogan that I came up with was called like unfinished business. And we put it like on all the clothing that we wore going in our senior year. It was this unfinished business thing.

Yeah.

And at the time, I guess I designed some. Designed some pieces off of storytelling that I didn't even know I did until right now.

Yeah.

That's actually really cool.

Yeah. And it was called Unfinished we wore. I didn't even pay attention to it till right now.

Wow.

But I was like, we should call it unfinished business. And we put it on like back of T shirts and our hoodies and we went into like Hershey arena that day and I cut my hair different. It was like a whole new like wave.

Oh my God.

I didn't even realize until right now that that's what it was.

Yeah.

And storytelling and how to come up with like a slogan. Yeah, sell it. Yeah.

Like now he's, he's elite. His storytelling. That's where. That's what he's great at. He's telling stories so it makes sense how it all ties back together. John Geiger designer was born.

I love that. Yeah, I gotta see that video.

Yeah. Go on YouTube right now, John.

Before we wrap up here, like moving into the future for everyone that's watching, listening, where's the best place that everyone can just stay up to date with all the drops coming out with the brand and follow you guys overall.

Well, obviously is Instagram John Geiger score. But also the email list. Signing up for email list is where we do a lot of our. Our drops and exclusive stuff and early access. So those two are probably the. And also the brand page. But John Geiger company. But those. Yeah.

And then we're going to hit spring summer hitting retail heavy. So that's what we just showed in Paris. So local retailers like you know, Saks, stuff like that are going to be picking up certain silhouettes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's exciting.

Yeah.

Well, sweet guys. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. We've been.

Thanks.

Trying to make this for a while. I really appreciate your guys time. The stories. Like I'm just so stoked to continue to see the growth and for everyone watching listening. Make sure you go check out John Geiger, if you haven't already. I'll make sure to link it down below and appreciate you guys coming on today.