Jordan Belfort - The Wolf of Wall Street

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What's going on, everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. Today I'm very excited about this guest. We have the one and only Jordan Belfort. Thanks so much for coming on.

My pleasure.

So for everyone watching, I'm sure they've seen the movie Wolf on Wall Street. You're the og, the real Wolf of Wall Street. And really to just kick off the interview, a lot of my audience, you know, they're young people getting started into entrepreneurship. I want to take it back. Just what was your first taste into entrepreneurship from a young age?

Well, you know, I was one of those kids that had the paper out, did the lemonade stand. I even troubled driveways after snowstorms when I was 10 years old. Magic shows. But I would say the real big hit I had as a teenager that kind of set the stage for who I ultimately became. And when I say who I ultimately came, I mean my own beliefs about myself and my ability to make money. It started when I was 16 and I was on the beach, Jones beach in New York, and I had this idea to go sell ice cream in Italian ices, blanket to blanket. And the first day that I tried it, I made $112 or something, $120, which at the time is probably about $300. It's a long time ago. And then I went back the next day and I sold four cools and made like $500. And. And it changed my life. I mean, I didn't come from a rich family. It came from a, you know, lower middle class to middle class family in New York. And when I made that money, it was more than my parents were making. It was more than my neighbors parents were making. And I'll never forget that feeling. And I was like, you know, I will never ever work for someone else again. That was me working my Ass off. And I got paid mostly in singles, so just a lot of singles. So it seems like that for a ton of money, nothing like a stack of singles like that. Right. And that was really the first experience I had with going out and buying something and then reselling it at a major profit, where I was really, you know, paper out is not really that job. Right. And. And the magic shows, he has a service business. And the knocking on doors, the snowstorms was cute. This was real. This was big money. I made my first year $26,000, and by today's stands, like $70,000 in a summer. You know, I'm saying, so next year, I made three times it. So that was how it started.

Makes sense. And I'm sure everyone that's listening, right? I, number one, absolutely love the movie. And it's. It's funny because when the movie came out, I'm 19 now. When it came out, I was younger, and I've seen it multiple times, and every time I watch it, I have a different takeaway, especially with the last three years of entrepreneurship and getting into business. And I'm sure people listening may have that same take on it. But regarding the movie itself, the Wolf, Wall Street, I wanted to get your take because I listened to a lot of interviews that you've done with a good friend of mine, Drama, and it's super cool to hear your experience, whether that's what was in the movie, what you think could have been highlighted more. But to really bring it back now with the movie being out and being such a successful hit, how do you look at that movie being such a monumental part of your life, showcasing your journey? Just what's the real Jordan Belfort's view on the movie after it's been out for a long time? With the amount of success that it's.

Had, I think that there's something about the movie that allows it to hold up so well over time. And I can't tell you how many people, friends of mine, you know, older people, younger people, said, oh, I watched the movie again over the holidays with my family, everyone. It's like a perennial thing. It's a cult hit that's never gonna die. I guess, kind of long after I'm gone, people will watch the movie and they'll talk about it and they'll draw conclusions about it. You know, to me, I think. I think what. The reason it intrigues people so much is that it represents sort of the best things a person can do and also, on some level, the worst things a person can do and that's the same person doing them. And you're like, wow, you know, how could one person do so many amazing things right? And then also kind of, you know, do some things wrong, loses ethical way and at the same time have a lot of fun doing it. And, and, and I, I think it's intrigues people. They're saying, you know, wow, you know, and they get to also experience those highs and those lows vicariously. So it's, you know, you can live and watch me soar and you can be saying, you're almost watching me self destruct and you're like, what are you doing? Stop, stop. Like as a bystander and you get that thing thrill without having to go through the self destruction yourself. So there's, you know, there's a morality tale in there and there's also of course a lot of stuff in there that can be pruned for business and salesmanship, especially salesmanship, right of, you know, how I was able to train all these young kids and turn them into, you know, forces to be reckoned with in terms of their ability to influence and persuade and also, you know, kind of rewrite many of their beliefs about themselves. A lot of them came in thinking that they weren't capable of greatness. They came in being financially disempowered, thinking that money was hard to make. And money's not hard to make. It's easy to get rich. It really is. It's not hard to get to get rich. And you ask any rich person, they'll tell you, you know, and you know, getting rich is not about hard work. Now don't get me wrong, you have to work your ass off to get rich. But one thing I will tell you is that the hardest you'll ever work is when you're not making money. When you're actually making a lot of money, you barely have to work at all. What happens is all the hard work that goes in while you're lining up the elements of success. And then when you finally start making money, you're like, damn, this is it. I barely have to even lift a finger to make a lot of money. So, so there's all those things are in the movie and you get to enjoy them and appreciate them. And then also watch the downfall, the morality side of it as well.

Love it. I love it. And something that intrigues me, like the first scene of the movie when you're sitting down at that table, the coming into Wall street and I want to sort of just take this back to people getting started along their journey. Because that was when, you know that amazing scene with the chest bumping right in that moment in the real world of Jordan Belfort when you're stepping into Wall street, like what was your vision back then before stepping to your first job at a broker? Like, what was the, the plan?

Because obviously, well, I'd sold door to door before I was, I had a company that I'd started was meat and seafood and I built it up to 26 trucks. And the primary way we sold was door to door. We knock on people's homes. When I heard about a friend of mine making a million dollars a year on Wall Street, I was shocked at the amount he was making. And I said to myself, wow, that idiot can make ten, a million, I can make tens was my thought. Right. But I also heard they were doing it by the phone. That surprised me. I was like, the phone, I mean, people, I don't understand. People send you money over the phone. It seemed like an unlikely thing that people would do and. But when I walked in that first day and I actually saw it happening, I was shocked and I couldn't believe that people, you could call a stranger up and pitch him a stock and someone who never met you before would send a million bucks across the country by wire to some they never met to buy a stock they barely knew about. And just, you know, back then there was no Internet, so it wasn't like you could researcher even. They took the broker's word for it. And that for me was a very much of a life changing experience. Just walking in and seeing that happen, that people would buy over the phone like that. Ultimately I became the top salesman at doing that. And I trained people all over the world close on the phone and in person. But that was a big shift for me. That, that, that was the big one was that people sell on the phone.

Makes total sense. And just looking at the world now when it comes to you have this massive brand and social media is so prevalent today's world, world. Looking back to back then, building a brand, building a company, how have, how has the world changed? And you've seen so much, you've been through so much along your journey. Now moving into 2019, what advice would you give to someone starting a business in today's age?

It's a good question. It's, you know, it's very interesting tapping today. So I was, you know, I'm just really launching about, about a year ago, I really embarked on this program to really go after the B2B market business to Business sales because I have a training program that's so effective and you know, I, and I sell it to a lot of large companies and smaller ones as well and the results they get with it are just ridiculous. Salespeople soar, they double, triple their closing. Right. I never aggressively pursued the B2B market because I didn't have a training that was set up for that. It wasn't on a robust enough platform. So about a year ago I, I actually redid that program. Back when you saw me, I used to have all those people. So they were all actually redoing that. So the 20 people were downstairs all redoing. Some of your camera girl knows you really for a long time, right? So I had all these people redoing this program and it was a really exp. Proposition which thank God is now over. But I created this program then I, I never, it's interesting, I never cared, you know, where I ranked on Google with sales training programs or stuff like that. Because my brand is so strong that when I walk down the street I can't go from here to there without being stopped by somebody. Like right, we. I saw you at Starbucks. I thought I didn't know who it was you. It's like, oh, just another fan. Then I realized you were interviewing me after. But then as soon as I got outside, someone ran up to me in the street like a second later. Right. So that. So, but so it was really interesting to me the disconnect sometimes though about what you see online and what's in the real world. Up until about a year and a half ago, I, I had almost no social media at all. I just was, I was famous in the real world and I didn't rely on social media or the Internet. I just. Because I had a movie which is, you know, occult it right. So everywhere I go everyone knows the movie. Right? But even today I noticed, I said, wow, you know, when it comes to business, to business sales, I'm not even listed in these directories anywhere. I'm not listed as the top sales trading program. It is empirically is the top program. It is the book if you go to the airports, number one on the bestsellers. But because I didn't play the game of hey, let me go into these couple of four rating platforms and pay them $200 or, or shake their hand or agree to give them a picture. So, so there's a very interesting thing these days, I'm. A very important point is that how you actually are in the real world doesn't necessarily drive with what people see on the Internet and that could be either good or bad, depending on what you do. Now. If you're a young person and you're just getting started, I bet you there's people on that list of top 20 sales trainers that couldn't even shine my shoes. Like, they don't even, they didn't even know the first thing about selling. Like they probably stole my content. They wrote a little bit of a pamphlet, but they knew someone, so if you would Google them, they say, oh, that guy really knows he's an expert. That's a good thing for that person. I don't know how good it is for the consumers, but I think there's a lot of opportunity for young people right now because in the olden days you had to really earn your bones. If you wanted to really be famous, you had to get famous the good old fashioned way, which is do something extraordinary, get in trouble in some way and come back. You know, something had to happen, you know, do something. Now it's no, you can. I've seen people that have literally that have no sales acumen, brand themselves as top sales channels because they advertise their way and SEO their way into those positions. And it works. So I'm not even saying it's a bad thing. I'm saying it's a fact of life. So I think that's, that's a huge thing right now for people. And if you're young, it gives you this incredible advantage. And let me just say this, I wouldn't say it's an advantage. Let me rephrase that. Not an advantage, but it's an incredible equalizer for you because you could actually get yourself branded and known without being the real deal. Now hopefully you'll have enough integrity to close that gap. So if you get yourself to the top of Google and you get yourself known, well, then you should actually hopefully be what you say you are. But if you want to do the work and become the expert too, then I think it's a very exciting time for people, for young people right now because you can, you can go, you can actually go up against people like me who, who've been doing it for their whole lives and really are the real deal. And if you're really savvy on social media, you can position yourself as an expert.

That makes sense.

You're not going to have a movie behind you. So I have a little bit of an edge. But still. But no, but you get the point though.

Totally. And I'm curious about this meaning just when the movie did come out. Just regarding that being such a platform for you, right? That's something where, like you just said, it's such an advantage regarding social media branding. And obviously you've built your career when what was the transition to have the movie, right? Working with Leonardo DiCaprio, like, what was the steps that. That happened after the massive transition in your life?

So this is a very, is a very important thing for everyone, guys, is one thing that you take away from this interview. It's got to be this fact right now. The movie did not create any success for me at all. My success created the movie. Let me explain. When I got out of jail, I wrote the book the Wolf of Wall street. All right? It was. The original draft was like 2,000 pages edited down to 538 pages, right? And as soon as the book came out, it was bought in a bidding war by between Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pritt. I sold it to Leo and Scorsese attached the direct. This is 2007. A screenwriter named Terry Winter, who's a friend of mine, is actually doing the TV series now for the Wolf. It's going to be a TV series this year. So Terry Winter adopted my book and turned it into a screenplay and did an amazing job. And the book ended with me going to jail, and the screenplay hence ended with me in jail. That's where the movie ended in 2007. The movie was then greenlit by Warner Brothers in 2007. They were preparing to shoot when the writers strike hit. You're probably too young to remember this was a writers strike in 2007. Everyone put their pens down. Leo and Marty went off to do Shutter island, which is another movie made, another good movie they made, right? And the Wolf of Wall street fell into limbo for a period of five years. So there was a five year period from that original script was written to when the movie got actually went into production and got released in the sixth year, right? So what did I do? Well, I was pretty upset obviously, when the. Because, you know, if the movie would have come out, I thought at the time, I'm like, oh my God, this is big comeback. I got this movie, right? So what did I do? Well, I went about living my life and building my business. In about 2008, when the shit hit the fan in the world with the global financial crisis, I decided to go into the speaking business. And ultimately that came into the sales training business. And I started going out there and teaching people around the world how to sell without the movie. And I built a Massive business. Doing sales training and doing seminars before the movie came out. Okay, that's before the movie came out. When Leo finally called me in 2012 and said, hey, we're ready to go, he goes, I'm coming over. When he first met me, I was living in a tiny shack. And when he came over to him, I was living in a mansion on the ocean. He's like, what the fuck happened to your life in five years? I'm like, oh, well, I'm. You know, I'm doing. I teach sales and entrepreneurship around the world. He goes, I don't understand. What do you mean? I showed him some videos of myself on screen teaching. He's like, oh, oh, my God. Wait till Marty sees this. So he shows him to Scorsese and like, whoa, we have to rewrite the whole third act of the movie. So they went and they rewrote the entire third act of Wolf of Wall street to reflect that I ended up coming back from failure and building this massive seminar business, and I ended up selling me this pen. So rather than the movie ending with me in jail as it did in 2007, the movie ended with me teaching sales to an audience on screen and then served as a calling card for a massive business I built on the heels of that. But what was it that caused the success? Was it the movie? No, it was me taking action on bad news. The movie got delayed. I said, I'm not going to die. I'm not going to crawl up and die and flip out. No. And I took a deep breath, and I built a massive business before the movie, which then changed my own life story while it was being shot, actually influenced my own life story while it was being made into a movie. They changed it to reflect this amazing comeback, and that is how my life became as it is today.

That's amazing.

So you understand the difference is one way is, you know, things don't always go your way, but you do what you got to do in life. You can mold life to your way through hard work and through perseverance and through talent, ambition, everything else and everything. That's the way it works.

What told you to write the book? That being a catalyst. The first one, the Wolf of Wall street, meaning you get out of jail, write the book, which then leads to work on the movie. What inspired you to write the book?

Well, I started writing in jail because my bunkmate was Tommy Chong from Cheech and Chong. Great guy. And we would tell each other stories, and Tommy and the third goes, you know, I thought you were making this stuff up. Cause the stuff that you talk, it's crazy. My wife googled you. It's all true. She goes. He goes, you gotta write a book about this. I'm like, really? I didn't think my life was that insane. Cause it was my life. He's like, oh, my God, it'll be great. So I started trying to write, and it was difficult at first. Ultimately, I stumbled upon a book called Bonfire of the Vannies, which was a really well written book by a man named Tom Wolfe, very famous author. And I taught myself to write by reading that book. I modeled that book. And then when I got out of. And I had written about 100 pages when I was in jail, I ripped them up. I didn't like them enough. And I started from scratch when I got out. So it started in jail and it started when I got out because I didn't really know what I wanted to do. And I just started writing and I wrote the first five or 10 pages. People read them and like, oh my God, they're really good. That's how it started.

That makes sense. And I'm very curious. Like working with someone like Leonardo DiCaprio. I'm sure I've listened to different podcasts and you've been able to work really closely with him. When the movie was being filmed. What was it like working with someone of that stature of. He has been so successful in the. In just his entire career. And having someone like that embody you in a movie.

Let's.

Let's talk about that. I'm sure it was insane.

Yeah, I mean, it's just. It was a bit surreal. You know, Leo is a really ordinary sort of guy. He's one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. He's just a nice guy. He just is. And he's a man of his word. He's got a lot of integrity. He works really hard. So we got along really well. I mean, he became a good friend of mine and we spent a lot of time together. And he had a lot of respect for me, what I had accomplished. I had massive respect for what he'd accomplished in life. And it just was one of those things that clicked from the first time we met. You know, just, you know, he got. He really. He understood, I think, what Leo and Scorsese, for that matter, one of the things they do is they don't bring judgment or moralization to the characters they play. They just play characters. Like, in other words, like when I'm watching a movie or a TV series, I Will literally shut it off the second I feel like someone is telling me how to feel. If someone's trying to telegraph feelings to me by inserting dialogue or images that are meant to make me feel a certain way, that's not authentic to the scene itself. It's one thing, yeah, the scene is the scene. I'm supposed to react to the scene. But if I'm being spoon fed emotional morality, I'm done. I'm out. I'm out of the movie. When people criticize the Wolf of Wall street, meaning critics, because they're idiots, a lot of them criticized the Wolf of Walsh and said, oh, it glamorizes. No, no, no, it doesn't glamorize anything. It's just fucking glamorous. It's fucking glamorous. It just is. Doesn't mean it's right or it's wrong, but it's glamorous. Gorgeous women, lots of money, fast cars, great drugs, rocking. It's fucking glamorous. So when you watch that, when someone accurately portrays a life that was glamorous, they're not glamorizing. They're telling the fucking truth and letting the audience make their own decision on the morality of it all. That's the beauty of the Wolf of Wall Street. He's not saying it's good, he's not saying it's bad. He's saying, here's what happened and it's fun as shit to watch it. You could hate him. You can love him. You can hate him and love him. You can root from. You could hope he has a downfall. You can pray for a comeback. You can love characters. Hey, guys. But you're, you're actually seeing something as it was. You know, of course it's Hollywood and there's some liberty staking, but it's not moralization saying, you know, let's insert some image of an investor whose house got taken away because that will make you hate the character. That's. That. That's not real life. Because eight people didn't lose their homes. But it's just an example I used. There's like, not like you. He would then an example at the end of the movie, when they were looking for an ending, I came up with the idea, hey, you know, I'm doing all this charity work in Africa. How about we end with me doing charity work being fully. And they go, that's bullshit, because that's moralization. The other way, that was me with a bad instinct saying, all makes me look really good. That's telling the audience to like Me again, versus. No, he's a fucking sales trainer. Because he's the best in the world at it. And you can't hold this guy down. That's the fucking point. There's no judgment. Say you could hate that. You can love that. Some people love that. Some people hate that. But it's true and was accurate, authentic. That's the beauty of the Wolf of Wall Street. So Leo was instrumental in bringing that authenticity to screen. And the reason he only works with certain directors, like a score Scorsese or. Or, you know, whoever it might be, is because they're not apologizing for what they do. Leo can hate the character he played. You know, he could have hated me. I don't think he did. No, he didn't. But he knows he's not gonna bring that onto the screen.

God, it's just. It's authentic.

It is what it is. It was glamorous.

Let's talk on that being. I love the first scene where it's like you said, you're making $50 million a year at 24. Correct. Being 24 years old and having the story in which you have. When you first started making a lot of money, what was the change in terms of going from that person that's at the table, starting on Wall street, super innocent, not doing drugs, to then having this change in your life? What do you think that transition was mentally? Was it just a step by step thing that led in that direction or what?

There's one part of the movie that's. That's not very accurate, and I understand why. I think they could have done a little bit better job at. This is. The one thing I think was a bit off was the rapidity of my fall into the black hole of insanity. In other words, like, you know, I go the first day down to Wall Street. I'm like, oh, you know, can't we make our clients money, too? And then the Matthew McConaughey character says, no, we don't do that. You know, And I'm like. And then the next scene, I'm at a strip club snorting coke. That's not true. You know that it says, over the next six months, I learned the ins and outs of Wall Street. The ins and outs of Wall street were working my ass off dialing the phone 500 times a day, going into office buildings at night, selling ISIS to sell jewelry, costume jewelry, door to door. Going to the beach on the weekend, selling that to make money to pay my rent. Being madly in love with my wife, being loyal for six months and then even for the first year after I started making money, I was a fucking. I was a boy scout. It was, you said, and you correctly, probably. I think you probably inferred because it makes more sense that it happens step by step and very slowly because that's how that stuff happens. So. Yeah, so it makes more sense that way. Right, I guess. I understand. They had to, you know, there's only three hours to make a movie. That's a long movie. Right. But that was inaccurate. It wasn't like that at all. It was a very slow step by step, the evolution of the human soul and spirit. You know, it's like, you know, you do one thing and then, you know, you start living normally. Then you do something. Oh, well, the line of morality moves a bit more. So with every single thing I did, whether it was a drug use, whether it was, you know, sleeping with a thousand hookers or cheating on my wife, you know, every chance I got, or not coming home at night or doing massive quantities of drugs or even breaking the law, it all happened with these tiny little imperceptible steps where I crossed the line just a little bit and then saying, oh, now I'll be a pillar again. But each time I crossed your line of morality moves a bit, then a bit more, and that's how it happened.

Got it. And you've been sober now for what, how long now?

20 something years. When I say I'm sober, I'm not acquired, but I still drink. And I've even done drugs a couple times over the last 24 years. But the last time I did drugs on a regular basis or bought a drug or used a drug, it's been a really long time, but I was sober. I was actually stone cold sober for about 13 years, but I never really had much of a drinking problem. So I'll drink occasionally. I'll have a drink here and there. And if someone forced me to do it, if someone found the real Quaker, call me, I'll do them with you. Okay? Because then you can't find them anymore. Okay. But it's been a really long time.

And I say that because, like, for example, I'm 19 years old, right? A lot of young culture, especially with hip hop, like, drugs influence behavior in a lot of young teenagers or people in college. And it's through music, it's through social media, it's through this device that we have access to. And looking back, it's speaking to young people that are, let's say, maybe are overusing drugs or whatever that may look like, what advice would you have to someone that is so influenced by culture, whether that's hip hop, whether that's some of these entertainers that are glorifying this lifestyle and putting it out there. What advice do you give to someone that may be really deep into drugs but not sure what's the step to take to completely pivot in a positive direction?

Well, I think that, you know, nothing is terrible in moderation, you know, so it's like, I don't think that drugs are bad. Doing lots of drugs are bad. You know, if you take drugs once in a while, that's, hey, God bless you, you know, you know, who's to tell you what to do with your own body? And they can be fun sometimes, right? The problem is that very often with many of us, the drug use starts to become insidious and it creeps and it creeps in. Before you know it, you're doing far more than you ever thought you would do. And that brings on a host of issues from who you hang out with to where you hang out, to the things that you actually do when you're hanging out. Because when you're on drugs, your judgment is impaired. That's why people take drugs, right? And, but I wouldn't say to someone who's young, don't do drugs. I think it's a stupid, disingenuous thing to say and people will just shut you out. Here's what I would say. You know, if you're in high school right now, all right, you should not be using drugs simply because your brain is not fully formed yet. I'm not saying never use drugs. You probably should try them. You should, why not? Right? But not yet. You gotta, you gotta give yourself a fucking chance to let your brain form because it does damage your brain when it's. I see, See, marijuana, which is legal in most states now, has a radically different impact on a 30 year old than on a 16 year old. The typical 16 year old starts smoking a lot of pot, they start doing poorly in school, they lose their motivation, they'll start to lie, maybe even steal a bit if they, if they're smoking a lot. And it's a gateway drug for a lot of other things, right? I know 30 year olds a smoke doesn't no negative impact on their life. They're just productive citizens running huge companies and they smoke and they love it. It's great. That's it, that's a very, it's very different. So it impacts people at different age. When you're over like 23 or 4, your brain is formed as an. As an adult male, I think women were a couple years earlier. So a huge difference, you know. So if you're in high school, just be aware that you're really. You're setting yourself up for issues. I would never say don't do it, but probably try to wait to do it until you're a bit older. Okay? And if you do it, try to do it once in a while, maybe on a weekend, and that's that. When it comes to harder drugs like cocaine and whatever else is out there these days, listen, you know, I mean, again, you know, cocaine to me is a dark, evil, disgusting drug. I've done more than pretty much anyone on the planet in the. Most people. Um, and I'm not proud of that. And I probably hated 98% of the time when I was on cocaine. It's a really weird drug. It's like a drug. You're miserable when you're on it, but you still want to keep taking it. And you have these little moments of like. Of like euphoria chasing that one moment of euphoria. So it's terrible. You know, I would say, if anything, slow down. Okay, Just. But just be aware. You got to be aware of one thing, that the ability to use drugs is not a right, it's a privilege. And once you abuse that privilege, you lose the privilege. I've lost the privilege to do drugs responsibly. I can't. If I just. If I start. If I have a bag of blow in my pocket, I'll be up all night. I'll be up. I just can't control it. Some people can. So just be very careful with it. And, and, and, and if you can just try to delay until you're a.

Little bit older, that makes sense. And I wanted to touch on. So one of my favorite parts of the movie that I think is very. It changes the scene in terms of the yacht, right? You're. You're going in the yacht and you're going across the ocean and it ends up sinking number one. Is that a true story? You sunk your yacht?

It's true, but not like the movie said.

How did. What was that scene like in the real world?

Much worse.

Sinking the yacht. Like, tell us about that. Because I, When I saw. When I first saw the movie, I was like, there's no way. Obviously, the waves were what they looked like. What was that scene like in the real world?

Well, in reality, it took about 12 hours for it. We were in the boat for 12 hours while it was sinking. It just kept going worse and worse.

And how much is a boat of that size? How much is a boat worth of Today's dollars?

Probably 20 million.

So as someone that has that boat, what are you thinking as it's sinking?

Thank fucking God it's sinking. Cause it was insured by the Lloyds of London. I hated that fucking boat. You know, and the best part was, is that, you know, normally when the boat sinks like that, the insurance company's like, wait a second. We have to investigate, because this is obviously an insurance job. The guy sunk his own boat. It caught fire. We're not going to pay this guy so quickly with my boat. The next day, the insurance adjuster comes to. I was in Sardinia. He shows up, the guy, he goes, you know, normally when a boat like this sinks this big, we do a big investigation, and we always know there's some fraud. He goes, but in your case, no one would be stupid enough to take their whole family on the boat and fucking save the boat. He goes, so we're going to pay you. Don't ever ask us for insurance again. And he wrote, I got a check for the full boat in the chopper. They just paid me because they knew it was so crazy. Like, normally it's always like. It's like an inside job. And the owners. So I was on the boat, they're like, no one would fucking do this. So they just.

It was.

It was actually a freak thing that happened. It was just a freak storm that popped up and a lot of people. 18 people died that. That week. Yeah, it was a pretty serious thing. And I don't know if they died on flooding on the coast or in the water, but I remember 18 people died from this storm. And, yeah, it was just. It was much more intense than the. It was very much. I was a little sad with the. With the movie part. And I understand it's an expensive thing to do visually, you know, I think probably cheaper now, five years later, with the graphics and stuff to do it. But it was a much more long, protracted event that took place. Almost like. I think it was almost 18 hours till we were finally rescued. And it was just so crazy. But it's a banner scene in the movie, and it's funny as shit. And it's true that as the boat was sinking, I sent my friend down to get the Quaaludes, you know? Cause I said, I cannot die sober in a foreign country.

You know, that's insane. So looking at the movie, what is one of your favorite parts, if you had to pick one.

I mean, the favorite parts for me, the parts that. Where I'm up on, you know, the speeches. Those speeches were directly from the book. Like, you know, like, Terry Winter. I'll give Terry so much credit because, you know, a lot of writers have ego. And he. Terry Winter, who's a screenwriter who adopted my book, he had literally no ego. Like, he was like, I love this stuff. And I'm just gonna take your book, I'm gonna put it into a script, and I'm not gonna rewrite it. And so the stuff, like, where I'm up to giving this speech on Steve Madden, the first pitch I gave those. Those are probably my favorite. Of course, I. The car crash scene with the Quaaludes, where I don't remember getting into the.

Accident and it runs back nominal.

That's true. It's exactly what happened. And the way Marty did that is like. And it's actually very. I wrote it very similar in the book like that, where I, you know, tell the story and then, like, I retell the story again the way it really happened. Like, I. Because I really, you know, to this day, I don't remember hitting any cars. You know, I could pass a lie detector test, I'm sure. And that, you know, because I don't remember having an accident. And it was pretty intense when I found out that I racked up all those cars.

Was it like the movie where it's like, you walk outside and you see, you're like, holy. That's what happened regarding the car and how it's crashed.

Yeah. Yeah. I was just completely astounded, shocked when I saw that. I was like, who stole my car? Like, I couldn't quite make sense of the whole thing.

How has being a father changed your life just throughout your journey?

Well, you know, for many, many years, my kids were the reason why I was coming back. You know, like, you know, when I hit bottom after with jail and everything, you know, my kids were that sort of that shining light that, you know, I'm gonna come back and show my kids that their dad can, you know, be a winner again, and I'll provide for them. And it was a very important part of my life. And then also, I think, you know, my kids throughout my life really grounded me. And it was certainly a reason to get sober in the beginning, when my kids were just getting to that age where if I kept doing drugs, it would have been very damaging to them. So I'm very fortunate, you know, that I have great kids and they've, you know, they've taught me as much about myself as I probably taught them about life. Just by, you know, having to be a role model for them and to watch them grow and make their own mistakes and learn from them. And thank God they're all very successful.

And how old are your kids?

I have three altogether. 26, 24, 23.

Okay, so I'm younger than all of them. So I'm curious, regarding just going to prison, what was your biggest takeaway? Just stepping out back into the world. What's been your biggest takeaway from going to prison, coming out and redefining your career, redefining your life?

Well, you know, the, on, on the positive side, I think. Wait, this passes a second. Well, on the positive side, I would say that the ability to come back from zero when all the odds are stacked against you, that will never be a question in my mind if I'm capable of doing it as many times as necessary. I mean, after that sort of experience where you really hit bottom in a public way like I did, it's amazing to come back like that and to have that self assurance to move through life with the self assurance that I'll always figure it out in some way. That's one side. On the not so positive side, I would say, you know, the one revelation, the one thing that still really is interesting is, is how there are still certain factions, very small factions within the government that resent my success. Very few people, very isolated people. Most people in the government are wonderful and they're just out there living their own life. There are a few low level public servants that try have tried to cause me problems by saying things about me in the press, painting pictures about me that are simply false, like I didn't want to pay back investors that was running to. And just so there's a false narrative out there about my life that is really, really. I wouldn't say it's upsetting to me, but it was really upsetting to me. I got to a point where I said, you know what? I've done so many great things in the last 10 years, everyone, if you don't like me, you, and you don't listen to me, go learn from someone else. I got to that point where I said, because I've done so many great things and helped so many people. So when an article would come out in the paper that was negative, I started just laughing at it, you know, and saying, you know what? Screw you. If that's how you are, then, you know, you know, you know, shame on you and good luck trying to live your life because you're probably a miserable fuck, right? But it wasn't always like that. It really hurt me in the beginning. It did. It hurt me when I would. When I, you know, I reach, you know. And this is really interesting because, you know, you got. You're gonna. You probably have it yourself. There's real. A lot of haters. People must hate you. I'm sure you have a lot of haters, Casey. You have to have your haters.

I would say there's definitely haters a lot on social media.

I mean, it's unbelievable.

A lot of the positive outweighs it, of course.

Of course it does.

But. Yeah, 100%.

No but, but that being said, you know, what do you do if, you know, you can go through your comments, just look at the negative ones and feel really bad about it, and I'm sure you get them. They probably say things about you that are just awful because they say things about Mother Teresa because she's. Doesn't matter who you are. If you were Jesus Christ and you just gave the sermon on the Temple Mount, people would say he's an asshole. You know, I'm saying. But it's very difficult. And I started to eventually realize that there's two types of people, right? There's like, you know, your garden variety haters. And on some level, you have to feel bad for these people because if they're spending that much time trying to hate on you, they must be in a lot of fricking pain, you know, I'm saying, so you can almost feel bad for them. And also, they actually do drive engagement. They drive engagement and they make you money. So I wish them well, right? But then there's a different type of hater when you really become famous, and I'm talking institutional haters, people that are journalists, people in the government, people that try to pass false narratives about you. That's not so. That's not so benign. I don't feel bad for those people. I think they're vicious, disgusting, vile human beings that should be not put to death because no one's. They should be put to emotional death and be in pain the rest of their lives because they're worthless slugs that have no place in society other than trying to bring misery down other people. So there's. I don't want to have the regular haters. I get it. I feel bad for them and I wish them well. But there's the other ones that are pretty destructive and they. And they do it to all sorts of different people. Famous People they hate on famous people. Look what just happened with Prince Harry and Meghan. They had these. What do you. What would it take? Just imagine. I feel really bad for them. What would it take for them to make that decision? I mean, how much hate. Institutional hate. That's. Institutional hatred on these two fine people. Come on. They're good people. You could love them. And not just. They're good people. They're not hurting anybody. Living their fucking lives. What the fuck was would to drive them to do that? That's sad. That's not okay. And when I saw that, I felt really bad for them. And I want those people not to die in a fire, but to burn in a fire and hopefully have a lot of pain in their lives because they fucking deserve it.

One of the things that. I'm speaking of haters or someone that was on the negative side of things. So you did an interview with the FBI agent that took you to prison. Loved that interview.

He's the best.

And the way you guys spoke in that conversation, it was like, you guys are friends now, right? Yeah, it was super cool. It was just. Even from my perspective of, you know, seeing the movie and following you on social media to then having that. Sit down.

This is what I wanna say. The government. 99% of the government's unbelievable. Like a few isolated idiots. So, like, yeah, he's just a great. He's a great guy. Government worker, investigate, doing his job. And he got me. I was wrong. He was right. I deserved to get punished for what I did. But he didn't take that personally. He knew the type of man I was, and he was very happy of what I've done. He's so happy that I've come back and I'm doing great things. Cause he always knew I had the ability to do that. And so that's the example of, I think, a really fine human being. You know, I'm saying. And then there's this other weird dynamic. I mean, like, I. It's almost like, hard to fathom. It really is crystallized by what happened with Harry and Meghan, where, like, I mean, they pronounced. The pile just leaked out of all lies. We can't take the false. And what she said, Megan. What she said was interesting shows, you know, I don't care if it's like people saying they don't like me first, but they're just lying. They're just making up toxic lies. And it's allowed to exist as a narrative of truth. I've been through that myself and still am today in Some respects very different reasons, and I've done some things wrong, but still the narrative they created around me was false by the institution, institutional press. It's fucking disgusting. So that stuff, I don't know what's gonna happen, but you know, something's gotta give with that. You know, it's something. The laws have to change. You can't just lie about people and get away with it. You can't just say whatever you want because it's the world, because it's not like it used to be. Now everything that is said stays forever online. It's really destructive. So it's, It's a sad thing. So I, and I think the lesson to the people here is be. I get what I was really driving. I was be very careful. You know, like, you know, the mistakes that you make, you're never gonna, you'll never do things that you can't come back from. You always can come back. But remember your name, your reputation and protect. That is, that's. That's pretty much your most valuable asset. I'm very lucky that I was able to redeem myself in the eyes of 99% of the world. That 1%, they'll hate me no matter what the hell I do, right? And that's probably okay, and it's probably even good for my brand, right? But I would be just be very careful because a lot of people are not as lucky as me. They make mistakes and they can't come back so easily or they never come back at all. So just do yourself a favor and really know. Before you take actions and cut corners, I want you to know it's just as easy to make money legitimately as illegitimately. It's. It takes a bit longer when you do everything legit, but you can make a lot more money, you feel great about it and your life will be wonderful.

That makes a lot of sense. And speaking of just, just, just money and transitioning, coming back from failures. Just in one of the parts of the movie when you're going to Switzerland, I love this part. When was the moment where you knew you were in too deep? Just in everything regarding just business and everything that was happening. When was that moment where you became very self aware and you're like, okay, this needs to change, like we need to do something about this, or was it too late?

You know, it's funny that you say that because when I was in Switzerland for the first time, I knew it was a mistake and I had this foreboding sensation like, this is not going to end well. I shouldn't do this. It was technical reasons why almost that by going to Switzerland and using that as a vehicle, it almost would result in a criminal investigation because they would have to make it criminal in order to find out the things they needed to find out to see if I was breaking the law or not. Almost. I was almost digging my own grave, so to speak. So yeah, there was that moment and that's where the drugs really hurt me because like, you know, my judgment was impaired and I did things I probably would have, I'm sure would have never done if I was sober. So that makes sense.

What do you say to a young entrepreneur getting started along their journey just from the amount of success and lessons you've learned? Someone that's just getting started, starting their first business, whether that's they're going about things and they don't know not only what to do, but just remaining respectful to themselves, having that loyalty and really just doing it for the long term. What advice do you give to young entrepreneurs nowadays just through the amount of success that you've been through?

What do you mean? What's the question?

Well, just what do you, what advice do you give to young entrepreneurs that are starting their journey, whether that's key points or biggest takeaways from losing everything to having to coming back. How do you set yourself up for a long term career from the beginning with doing it the ethical way.

One thing that you have to do as an entrepreneur is you have to become an animal salesperson. It's just, it's, it's a required, it's a required skill. You have to be able to sell and close because without that ability, you can't attract great employees, you can't raise capital, you can't negotiate with people. You have to negotiate. You have to be able to get your point across to people in a really powerful way that connects with them and gets them to agree with you. That's so number one is you have to master the art of persuasion. And that's what I teach people is I teach people to become animal closes using a system called the straight line. That's one thing for sure. The second thing I would say is that you also as part of that, you have to surround yourself with people that possess the skill sets that you don't naturally have. You know, you're never going to be a one person army on your road to success. There's going to be other people that are instrumental in helping you get there. So look to surround yourself with people who possess skills and natural abilities that you might not have or that you struggle with. That's the second thing. Third thing is do not surround yourself with yes people, yes men, yes women. That's the biggest mistake you can make is people that are scared to tell you the way things are. And I hate when that happens. I still have it today because of. Because I'm famous or sometimes people will not shoot me straight and I gotta know and I. I'll find something out my own business. Like why didn't you tell me? I didn't want to upset. What do you mean? I'm upset now because I didn't know I would have changed. Right. So. So that's another thing is make sure you don't surround yourself with yes people. And the biggest one of all is, is that test, test your ideas. Don't you know you gotta. Before you commit full capital, full everything, still blowing out, growing overhead. Test your ideas and beware of false positives. There's a lot of false positives out there. Because, you know, there's a very big difference between getting a positive test and then a positive scaling test. Some things work so small and they won't scale. In order to have a real business, it's got to scale. So be careful that you've already not. You've already tested it for scaling purposes. Not just that. Will people buy what I have and can I scale that right? And then one bonus tip here is, you know, learn to delay your gratification. Don't. Don't think you have to make everything overnight. You know, good things take time. Delay your gratification. If you do that, I promise you'll end up okay.

That makes sense. So the podcast, I know absolutely love your show. What inspired you to start a podcast and sitting down with different quality people?

You know, for me, a podcast was something I thought I should do it for many years. I never wanted to do because I didn't want to deal with getting all the guests and stuff. It's a pain in the ass. And, and the problem I have a lot, I think with my guests is that they're not as interesting as me. Seriously, I'm being dead serious, guys. I'm not being conceited to the truth. It's very hard to find exciting guests all the time. In fact, this year I'm gonna do like. I got him Lewis Howes, my podcast. Great guy, very smart. And he's like, dude, I really think you're missing the boat on your podcast. I think it should just be you, just you talking. Yeah. And then have once in a while the guest.

I totally, really.

I'm like, I'm gonna try that after this. I'm just gonna. So I was seeing a lot of things. I was thinking about having people come and interview me in my own podcast. Like, let other people like that. Really what People want to talk to me and have a company. I'm the one they interview. Because I think people want to hear what I have to say. And not just me, there's a lot of other really smart people. But the problem with the podcast space is there's so many podcasts now, it's almost become a bad joke. Hey, you want to come to my podcast? It's like a bad joke at this point, right? You got to be. Because of Dan Fleischman is a good friend of mine. Right. So you were able to get to me and you do your favor also by getting TikTok, stuff like that, right? So. So you did a favor for someone and you get reciprocity. Right. But it is difficult to get really high quality guests, even for me, and I'm famous to get people on there again and again who not only have interesting stories to tell, but are also good at telling them. That's what you. So, you know, I'm going to BAM this year. I'm going to really balance my podcast out with a lot more solo episodes where I'm just either talking about life, talking about current events, talking about making money, and then seeing what my people. What the audience likes most, and then really direct it towards that and then have other guests on as well.

That makes sense. Just regarding the movie real quick, I have a couple more questions. Is there any story that wasn't in the movie that you'd be willing to share that maybe didn't make the cut or that you wanted to add in there, but there wasn't enough room because the movie's so long, or is there any moment?

There's just so many. The big one I won't go through is one that my bachelor probably was just too depraved, you know, and then there was a lot of, you know, political stuff going on with senators and vice presidents and stuff like that. That was. That was edited out of the book even because it was just too controversial. So some stuff with politicians, corrupt politicians and judges. But, you know, overall, I think the movie was a really great balance between life and business. Like, it wasn't a Wall street movie. It was about a life that happened to unfold on Wall street or in Long island of Wall street or in the stock market. So that's Pretty much the story that makes sense.

So a couple more things just nowadays, looking throughout your journey and looking back, moving forward just with everything you're doing in sales with the podcast. Who would be someone that you'd love in terms of ideal interview conversation that you want to learn more about their life or who do you think should have a movie about their life that currently does? Not yet.

Well, very different. I mean, like for instance, someone I'd love to learn about would be Warren Buffett, but I'd probably be a really boring fucking life on a movie because he's such a great guy. Like what Leo said to me, I said, hey, let's do a. Let's include more of my new life. He goes, no one cares about. He goes, your old life's more exciting. No one wants to hear that you're doing everything right. It's not quite as exciting.

Right.

So like, well, Warren Buffett, we still. And I'd love to speak to about business and learning and strategy. Right. In terms of someone whose life I'd love to see on the, on the silver screen. Interesting. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if Elon Musk is excited. I mean he's a brilliant guy. I just don't know if it's success. I don't know enough about his personal life. You have to be really self destructive to make a great movie, I think. Characters, I think. So there's sort of self destructive quality that, you know. Donald Trump would be interesting, by the way, be really interesting for someone to make a movie. But a real movie that like was fair, that was like a Scorsese type of movie that was actually fair in both ways. Cause there's things you could love about Donald Trump and things you could hate about Donald Trump. But if you did a movie on Donald Trump, you'd have to make it fair and not moralizing that he's a bad or good person. You get it. If someone could do a life of Donald Trump, that would be pretty. Not a. I'm talking a fucking movie. That could be pretty interesting.

Interesting. And speaking of Donald Trump, the way he uses social media, how do you look at that in terms of how he's running a country?

Fucking brilliant. It's brilliant. I mean, it's brilliant. I thought he was crazy.

Okay, with the 2020 election coming up with, with what just happened in Iran, like current event wise, how are you looking at the scope of the US, the economy just moving into 2020 election year?

That's a very complex question, you know, and you know, Iran and economy, they're different. Iran's a blip. I mean, that's one issue that's not going to make or break an election. The economy will. I think the impeachment is the stupidest fucking thing ever in the history. In the history of, of political events. That is the dumbest impeachment ever. And I said it totally work against the Democrats. They're foolish for doing it. It was, everyone knows it was politically motivated, it was a stupid thing to do. And it's impossible because Republicans control the Senate is just dumb and the country's facing real problems. This is not even for or against Donald Trump. Let's say I hated Donald Trump. Then I'd say is really stupid because if anything is going to get him reelected. So I'm not even trying to defend him. I'm just saying I think it's really stupid if you hate Donald Trump. It's probably the stupidest thing you could do is a bogus impeachment move. Cuz it just fires up his base as it has done. You knew they were never gonna. Yeah, it was a stupid thing he did. The call was stupid. It's not an impeachable offense. There's nothing so terrible as happens. Every president makes those types of calls and does shit. He's no better or worse than anybody else. He's just a great politician. And I think it was very foolish. So to me, you know, the things that are going to really matter in the election more than anything else is going to be the economy. And also by the way, is, you know, the ethnic vote, the black vote, the Hispanic vote is a really important right now, you know, and, and I think if you look at things like black unemployment is very low right now. I don't, you know, the thing is it's if it's hard to really say what's true anymore in the world because if you look at Fox News and cnn, you're like, am I in the same country? It's like there's two different countries here. The schism is so vast. So you know, you have all these people, these die hard conservative Republicans who no matter what, they're just always going to vote Republican no matter what. Then on the other side you have all those people that are going to vote liberal or Democrat no matter what, right? So what you have here, at the end of the day, it really comes down to a very small sliver of people who are like these sort of like, you know, these centrist, liberal. Centrist people that are, you know, not liberals. And not consider they just, you know, they might be affiliate to one point. They can swing either way. Those are not that many people. So it's really about like someone like Obama was a fucking salesman, you know, it was like he had a message of hope and change, you know, and he was awesome. You put this guy in front of a teleprompter, he was amazing. He was handsome as hell. He, he spoke, he spoke a great game and he was able to galvanize that little swing thing in the. He wasn't, he's not going to change. The people who hate you, well, and the ones who love you are going to vote for you no matter what you do. There's people, you know, 40 something percent of the country is going to vote for Donald Trump no matter what he does. Right. So it comes down to this very small group of people. And those people don't care about impeachment at all. In fact, it just makes them run to the voting booth even sooner and donate more money for commercials to stop the liberals who they think are poisoning the world. Right. So, and then vice versa on that side going to, they think that they'll do those liberals do anything to stop Trump from being reelected. Right. So I think it's going to be about really who's, you know, who has. I think the economy will hold up. I'm guessing nothing's going to radically change. I think these, all these wars and things, they're blips. They don't matter for the election. I think that it depends if the Democrats put up an unelectable person like a Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, they have no shot of winning. They have absolutely no shot of winning. And I hope they don't win because if someone like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders gets a hold of this country, it's gonna be a fucking disaster. Because, you know, any socialist tendencies, they will literally undermine the economy. You know, they'll just fucking destroy the fabric of the country. So hopefully they, hopefully the Democrats will put up a sane candidate and then the country can decide who they want more. And whoever the country decides on, I'll support that president.

Appreciate the insight. So, last thing before we wrap up, number one, one of the parts of the movies that I want to touch on before we end here is just. You bring up the word quaaludes a lot. And for those who may not know, there was that moment talking about the lemons in that scene where you're like, get off the phone and every. He's choking in this. That whole scene is very iconic. Quaid, like what was the, the history of Quaaludes in the movie that you're like, you guys are looking at the bottle like a kid's being born, right?

They were legal drug, like most drug stuff legal. And, and they were sleeping pill. But people quickly found that if you, if you fought the sleep inducing effect, you can get this kick ass high. And they just became incredibly abused and they were made illegal in the 80s, early 80s by the DEA. And, and then we went for many years around the world, swooping up the last of the supplies they made you. You were drunk but with no hangover. It was just utterly amazing.

Got it. Well, funny story. So one of my good friends, Daniel Alan Cohen, he's, he's an artist and yesterday when I was in la, he brought, he got me a gift that. It was the most weird way it lined up. But I want to present it to you here in the podcast because you're gonna get a kick out of it. So if our fo.

You could grab.

Check it out, check it out. So huge shout out to my man, Daniel Alan Cohen. He's, he's an amazing artist. Dan Fletchman actually has a piece of his. So we're going to present it to the man, Jordan Bell first. We're going to show it to you first. Wait for it.

Oh, I love it.

So we have, it's a, it's called the Periodic table of Elements. Correct. And this is the Quaalude portion of it. And as you can see, this little jar with two man made Quaaludes. Caffeine pills. So these aren't real Quaaludes, sadly. But there's a reference from the movie. It says Steve Madden. And my buddy Daniel Allen Cohen, he was like, you're interviewing Jordan Belford tomorrow. Give this to him. So I wanted to present with the one and only Quaalude piece, Daniel Alan Cohen.

Thank you.

There you go, brother. Let's put it right here. You can put it right here real quick. But no. That being said, Jordan, I wanted to give you this because not only when I saw that, I was like, wow, this is such an iconic piece that has not only references to the movie, but it, it, it's something that, when I saw that, I was like, if I could be the person that could deliver this to the one and only Jordan Belfort for my man Daniel, it would be a great gift and I wanted to give this to you. Thank you guys. Your story, not only the entrepreneurial side of it, but your comeback story and everything you do for the culture and for anyone that's ever followed the movie or your podcast. You've been a huge inspiration to me, and I'm sure you have been for other millions of others. But just want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I wanted to give this to you for the time being. And that being said, appreciate you coming on.

You got it, buddy. Take care. Monarch Legacy of Monsters. An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place. It's not ours. Believe me, the most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise. Oh, my God. Go, go, go. Monarch Legacy of Monsters. Streaming November 17th only on Apple TV. Plus.