Jordon Rooney - CEO of Jaster Athletes Speaks on Amplifying Damar Hamlin's Positivity

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Jordan Rooney, the CEO and founder of Jaster Athletes. Thanks so much for coming on, Jordan.

Excited to be here, Casey.

Well, I know we've, we've known each other for just over a year and a half, so we got connected through our mutual friend Will. And I've only. I've always loved what you've been doing in terms of the nil personal brand building for athletes. But I want to start off with something that's close to heart for so many of people that recently not only came across your content, but what happened with one of your clients and friends, Damara Hamlin. You know, as an agency owner, as someone that's representing an athlete, you're obviously busy a lot of the times with players on and off the field. But this was such a moment in sports history where the world stopped and fans came together in such an impactful way that we've all seen whether that's through the foundation, the charity, and I'd love to just take us to that moment of how did you find out? What was the initial reaction and feelings? And for those that don't know about Jaster, I'd love for you to also give a high level before we dive in.

Yeah, so I guess answer that first question first. So Jaster is an athlete creative agency we don't like to call ourselves sports marketing agency seeks. I think a lot of sports marketing agencies, you know, their client side, their athlete side, brand side, etc. Like they do multiple things. Our goal is to specifically serve athletes in building their brand. So when you look at the athlete marketing industry, a lot of it has mirrored talent management where athlete brings in a deal, you have a marketing rep who negotiates that deal, then they receive be set percentage. Well, other than the top 1% of athletes, athletes consistently getting deals up like that, you know, you look at how the world has changed. It's the digital landscape to where you can uniquely position an athlete with some sort of creative brand positioning to bring them in deals. They're not just going to collect. You're not able to collect them. Yep. So the idea is rather than just negotiating marketing deals, what if instead we put a creative team around them, branding, logo design, consistent content, brand management and invest in them to build their brands. So that's how we started with Jaster and Demar is someone I was friends with, has helped him in different ways. He actually interned for me when he wanted to build his brand and he's in college and then, you know, I think he has that unique combination of can be a pro for 15 years in the league if he wanted to be, but also has a great personality and can build a strong brand. And you know how the incident happen now? A few weeks ago I was on a plane actually coming back to Pittsburgh from Dallas and I was just scrolling on Twitter and I saw everyone was tweeting about him and what, what is going on, what's happening. So I saw it and I immediately got off the plane to go to Dallas, found a flight to see Cincy and was there one of the first people there with his parents and Bill's organization. And from there on it's just been a whirlwind.

I really, I cannot imagine. And you know, you guys are not only has has he been someone, as you said, that you've worked with, but you guys have been friends and I'd love to, you know, go down that path. How did you guys meet initially? You said he was an intern for you. Well, how did you guys initially meet? Because I know at Jester you work with the hand select of different athletes. So why demar early on? And you know, I'd love to also dive into the your entire roster of why you work with specific athletes because I know you guys are very hand selected about that process.

Yeah. So if you really go back in time, demar is the reason why I'm doing what I do because I worked with him understanding the agent process, understanding the marketing rep process. And that's where I really learned how flawed it was. So approached him and said, hey man, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this with you. And he's like, let's do it. And so he became our chief athlete officer, got equity in the company, but he is essentially the model of the athletes we would want to work with. A good example of this, I think how I can describe to like a digital entrepreneurial audience is like a really good E commerce brand. Right. Like there's certainly a lot of brands out there, but like a really good E commerce brand like Ollie Pop right, like you have these different like e commerce brands. You're like, that's that one has buzz to it. And if you just put the right infrastructure and the right ads and the right landing pages, you're going to 10x your ROAS. You're going to be able to like exponentially grow this brand. That's how I view athletes where it's like, okay, they have a personality, they have the positioning, they have this unique element of, of who they are and what they can do. So with the right team around them and when they play great, imagine what could happen. But the traditional marketing mindset for athletes is you play on the way you play well on the field, you bring in brand deals. There's plenty of athletes who they don't need to wait till they play well on the field because they can also be influencers as well.

Got it? No, that's a very unique perspective. And speaking of just nil overall, when the whole nil news first broke where college athletes could start monetizing, um, what was that transition like for you? And in terms of the opportunities and you know, I think you guys have done such a phenomenal job at penetrating and creating a whole different just way of doing things. So where did you know what happened when the news did break of hey, you can start monetizing college athletes and then now obviously transitioning into some pro guys that you guys work with.

Yeah, I think that just like any, any great business, great startup media kits, right, like you find a problem that that exists and you solve it before everybody else realizes that problem exists. So some people realize that problem exists, but then you are solving it before everyone else realizes it. And you're part of educating people on why that problem exists. And now a widespread audience starts to see it and you've already had the solution in place. So I started building out nil stuff a year before nil was even announced. I'm like this is coming at some point. It could be one year, it could be three years. Thankfully it was one year. And we're going to position ourselves as what I said to a lot of people, the non scalable nil solution because everyone was focused on scalable nil solutions and a lot of fizzled out or they've showed that they aren't sustainable. Because working with athletes, just like working with influencers, celebrities, etc. You need person to person contact, you need human interaction. So we developed an nil personal brand coaching solution that I wouldn't say isn't the long term play, but it allows us to get into this market and dominate it early because we are providing a new unique value prop while everybody else is focused on how can I get an exit from the nil space. And then they all ended up competing against each other. There's 30 athlete marketplaces out right now. 30?

Wow. I've seen a handful. That's crazy. I didn't know there was 30 of them. Yeah, there's a lot I want to even taking a step back, what led you to Wanting to go down this path from a career standpoint, starting the agency. What was life like prior to that? And what led you to this, you know, down this path?

I think it's interesting, right? Like, I played sports. You know, the goal growing up was to be a sports agent. And then as I got more into the sports industry, I realized the real fun is in sports marketing. Sports agent negotiates the pro contract, and, you know, that's cool, but sports marketing, that's when you're working with the brands. That's when you're, you know, going to the cool appearances and, you know, getting to do really impactful work. And the more I started to learn about sports, I realized that rather than me wanting to be an influencer myself and influence culture and create social change, athletes, in a lot of ways, are the entry point to culture.

Yep.

They are, you know, rappers, celebrities, influence. Everyone has a favorite player, they have a favorite team, they have everything. So athletes are the entry point to culture and to create social change. So if I could work directly with these athletes, the impact on society could be insurmountable, potentially. So that was really, like, the mission of the driving force for me.

It's so cool to hear and even just like, bringing that to present light. You know, one thing that I know went that happened from the incident with demar is his foundation, which you guys are part of, where he wanted to raise $2,500, ended up raising, I think it's just over $9 million from the moment that happened. This is real change. And yes, it's amplified now through a. A very unfortunate situation. But the. The opportunity to now impact lives from this. This moment. How have you been dealing with it when it comes to the business infrastructure? Like, you know, that amount of money coming in with so many incredible people wanting to support, coming back to your thesis of wanting to make change, wanting to work with these different brands. You know, this has just been a crazy month for you as a. As a founder, as a CEO, and I like to think that these are moments that are defined who we are and what we're capable of. And it's been super cool to see just on the outside of how you navigated it, but I'd love to hear from your perspective of what these 30 days have looked like as a founder and being able to now make such a big change because of the platform that you've built and that this, you know, this unfortunate event created.

Yeah, I think it's so. So no one was asking for $9 million, right? Like, and I don't want to sound like undeserving or ungrateful, but more money, more problems in some ways, because it has created this magnifying glass. Point of, what are they going to do with this money now? And what I would love to and what we are telling people is he has a really strong team behind him. This isn't just an athlete that now he's in the hospital waking up, like, I have $9 million. I'm gonna go spend it on this. No, like, I'm very tapped in with the nonprofit community. I've had a nonprofit myself. So first is like, let's get a really good team around this. And we've had, like, three of three presidents of major foundations who have said, I want to be on this board.

People who.

Who manage billion dollar funds. So from that perspective, people are like, oh, how are they going to know how to spend this money? Well, we have three people who manage $5 billion plus funds. So it's not Demar. Just like any. Anybody who's in this position, Demar and his. His family aren't, like, on their own, hey, how are we going to spend this? It's giving them the right team. And that's why, you know, they are savvy enough and self aware enough to. They know the mission of this foundation, and they know, you know, what's important to them with the vision. But there are also things they don't know when they're willing to put the right team around them that can help with it. So that was the first thing is like, putting the right team around it. And then from there it's okay, well, how do we own the narrative of. Let me take a step back. When Demar's down and he's in the hospital, everyone's supporting him. But then he's up and he has $9 million. The narrative has changed. Everyone's supporting him when he's down. Now when he's up, sure, there's still some genuine people out there supporting him, but. But now everyone's looking just at that money. Is he deserving? Why does he have. And it's the thing that we've said is this was someone who was going to figure out how to have this impact somehow. It just happened much quicker in a way that none of us expected. So he's not undeserving. He's not someone that isn't going to know what to do with it. It's actually the perfect person that you want to be put in this situation because the. The backlash or the response to his Injury wasn't just because he was in some football player. It's because of the type of person he is. That's the reason why the money came in.

That's powerful. And you know, I, as someone that doesn't know Demar, seeing the person he is, as you said, right. As the world saw over this this past month of the charitable contributions and just who he is as a person, it's powerful to hear that, especially coming from you on his team, and that it's built and grown within grown with him over the years. So changing to jaster athletes, the influx of business opportunities. I know that the night of the game you put out a tweet that I don't even know how many impressions that it received, but it was tens of millions, I believe so many. And how has this. You know, because you're just to formulate this question in a more of a key way, like you have been the personal brand coach trainer for these athletes. Then there's this moment where you, you know, you're giving an update, a genuine update, wanting to let fans and supporters know, and then, boom, you gain hundreds of thousands of followers in a very short period of time. Therefore, it's like, okay, how. How did you think about that in terms of what's next personal branding? Like, this is a moment that I believe is so important in and it captures your greatness as you know what you've been preaching for so many years as someone that works with athletes. So how did you take that personally from that tweet and you know, the outpouring of love and support from that.

So yeah, Casey, like, you know, I think you have a good idea of me and you know, we think similar ways and a lot of areas. And so, you know, I didn't ask for now 135, 000 Twitter followers like, I didn't ask for this, you know, and sure, it's great to have this platform, but what I would say is it still wasn't by luck like, it. It was things that I had worked towards for years and philosophies that all came down to an intensified, amplified moment that had millions of eyeballs on it. And the way that I was able to handle it, we were able to handle it was because of all of those years of work. So it wasn't that like, oh, this happened now. We got lucky. This was something that happened much quicker than we ever would have expected it to happen. But it wasn't by chance. Certainly the situation was not a great one, but we're going to turn it into a great one because what we're going to be able to do with it. So it's interesting story because I was not following any PR handbook and I honestly wasn't tweeting that night because I'm like, oh, I. I'm demar's marketing rep. It was. I was one of the only people his dad was talking to in that moment. And I texted for an update because people were tweeting that demar was dead and all this other, like, crazy, crazy conspiracy theory stuff. So for me, I was not focused on the PR perspective. I was focused on this is the Internet, this is social media. Narratives can run wild, and if they do run in the total wrong direction, it's sometimes hard to get back from that. So before that started, I was like, why do actually have the update? And I told his dad, hey, just like, no, I'm texting this out. And I texted the update and then got on my flight, tried to log on from my computer while I was in the air, but you don't get the SMS through your. The WI fi on the phone. So it locked me out of my Twitter account for two hours as I flew from Dallas to Cincinnati.

Oh, my gosh.

And I got back and I had 130,000 Twitter followers and I couldn't tweet to any of them. And I had a pin tweet of when I did the TedX. My TedX. And, like, people were just tearing me apart, like, oh, you're trying to promote your show. Like, my friends are messaging me, like, unpin that tweet. I'm like, I can't. I can't get in my Twitter.

So you. You couldn't get in for what reason?

Because I tried to log onto my computer and when I logged onto my computer, it kept sending a code to my phone. I was like, I'm not getting the code. Oh, yeah? What? Turns out because it's sms, it wasn't through WI fi.

Yep.

So it locked me out.

Oh, my God. Wow. So coming from, you know, you're landing this moment happens, thinking about the future of the agency, where does your mind go as a founder, as someone that has been working with athletes, building their brands? Of course, moments like this you can never predict. But moving forward, has this situation changed your perspective on your approach? Or what is this? You know, what has it taught you overall from this experience as a founder, as a marketer, as someone that works with athletes, moving into the future of your career?

See, it's interesting, Casey, because someone asked me that Today, like, what's this mean for your business? And it truly has not been a thought. Like, it's. It has been, how can we. Like, what can we do for tomorrow? We still have other clients who. My team's doing a good job. Like, my team's great. They're being able to manage, but my full priority has been, how can we. How can we do what is best for Demar? And it's not from marketing perspective. It's a healing perspective. It's a protective perspective. People are trying to get trademarks. People are trying to get domains. People are trying to, you know, launch shirts, what. You know, all this stuff. So it's always like, right now, how can we do what's best for tomorrow? And then from there, I'm sure there will be a moment where I'm like, okay, what does this mean for our business? But I'm not there yet because this is also my friend.

Yeah.

You know, and there's no part of me, like, people are like, claiming, like, oh, he's doing this for self promotion. He's doing this. It's like, no, this is. The family wanted me to be the spokesperson. And I, you know, I had a talk with them the night that it happened. I'm like, hey, just, you know, everyone in the world wants to interview you. They're like, we don't. We don't want to be interviewed. I said, okay, well. And they said. I said, what do you want to do? And, like, we want you to do it. You know, you can be the family spokesperson. I'm like, are you sure? Like, yeah. Said, all right. And I said to them, I'm like, well, here's why I would want to do it. A lot of people are just talking about his injury. We know him as much more than that. And this is an opportunity, not a marketing opportunity, but an impact opportunity to take right now he's not awake. We could take this opportunity and teach everyone the type of person Demar is so that when he is awake, it can only amplify his impact. And they said, 100. And that's what's happening. So it's not self promotion to me or the agency, everyone else. It's all. It's our job to own his narrative when he can't.

Yeah, no, that's. That's powerful. And I'll say, just, you know, from our time of knowing each other, I know how much of a genuine person you are. And to know that and to see how you guys have gone about it, it just makes me so happy because Again, like your generosity and genuine appreciation for what you do amplified. It's, you know, people always say it's with success or attention, like it doesn't change you, it amplifies you. And I think this is such a prime example of that for you, Jordan, for demar and what you guys stand for and how you're looking to support him and everything that's encompassed that. So I think this, this idea of it's amplifying the, the genuine individuals is super, super important here when it comes to.

Wait, Chase, real quick. I love that quote. Can you say that quote again?

It says, you know, money, success, whatever it may be, it doesn't change you, it amplifies you. And that's something that I believe wholeheartedly.

I love that.

I'm glad and you know, seeing, I remember I was like the day that it happened and I don't, I don't want to make this whole conversation necessarily about Demar and the learnings, but I think there is so much to learn from it, from, you know, this, this moment in time where it was the top of the year, very important game. How. What's your thoughts on how not only the league and players reacted, but just the overall situation of the support across all different fans and supporters and owners of teams and players? Like, I've been someone that has been following sports my whole life, not to the degree of someone like yourself, but seeing how much it brought people together, I think speaks volumes to what's possible if we all unite for a specific thing. And I'd love to hear your perspective on that in terms of the unity that happened, what you've learned from that and, and you know, just your overall consensus of the situation from a unity perspective.

Yeah, I think it's. It's really hard for me to answer because I was so in it, I was so ingrained in it that I, you know, I was at the UC hospital just in that lobby and you know, around like just very much focused on everything that was coming in that I never got to really digest everything that was going on in the outside world. I mean I talked to every major studio head, network president, news anchor, like everyone and trademark attorney. Like it was just, I mean, non stop to where like now starting to see it a little bit. And you know, I think demar's perspective obviously is, is going to be, you know, him digesting it is. Is certainly going to be a process. And so I don't want to diminish that because that's far more impactful than, than anything I went through with this. But from my standpoint, I view it from knowing Demar, this was an opportunity to humanize athletes. And I think in the moment, the intensity of what happened humanized him. But then the days following, everyone learning about who he was kind of changed perspective of how we view athletes as a whole. From my. From my standpoint, because they got to see this is someone who. Who was actually here. Here's a good way of looking at this. The NFL made rule changes where you can't just blind some, blindside someone, or just absolutely crush them and knock their, you know, their helmet off. And everyone said, the NFL soft. The NFL's soft. But if you look, those rule changes hasn't really changed the NFL. It may be a nuisance that these role changes are in place, but, you know, many concussions, it's probably safe. But no one has focused on that. Everyone is just like, oh, the league's gone soft. Why? Because they don't view athletes as human beings. This happens in a more intensified level than things like that. And now they're like, oh, athletes are human beings. Oh, oh, wow. We learned so much more about him. He's complex. He's mostly intelligent. He's self. Aware. Athletes are more than human beings. That's how I see the greater impact of this.

Wow, that's a very unique perspective, and I haven't even thought about it like that. So I appreciate you for sharing that when it comes to, as you said, and I do want to talk about Jaster, your team. I read an article that you were recently in, and it talked about some of your employees, right? Like, being put to the test of what they're capable of in terms of the opportunities that are coming in and just, you know, the. The amount of effort that you have within a small team that has that experiences something like this. And not to just say, like, oh, the business opportunity, it comes from this. But as a founder and that's someone that's working with people and you're dealing with the team, this is something that is just not a, you know, business as usual situation. So how did this impact your team and how did your team respond to this incident?

And I think this is a great example why culture matters. Because culture is easy when, like, your company's doing well and, you know, there's times where you have deadlines and things may get stressful. But real culture, I think, within a company is selflessness, like being able to be collaborative, not worrying about who gets the credit, focusing on, you know, the bigger goal at hand. I think My team's great because, like, me having a personal brand, I get a lot of credit all the time, you know, and like, it's not lost on me that that isn't always proportionate to actually what goes on. Right. My team does a lot of great work, but because I'm out there, it always comes back on me. But there, that's why it's important for me to be open and honest with them and have weekly monthly check ins here, where they are here, where their goals are, what they want to do and be so aligned with. This is the work that they want to do. And they feel appreciated with the work that they want to do. Because when this incident happened, no one was worried about their work hours. No one was worried about who was doing what. Everyone was worried about what is best for Demar. And it wasn't because I'm an employee of Jaster. It was, no, this is my mission. I care about this athlete. I want to help him. No one, like, even our team, no one was like, even to this day, wow, look at all this press we got, or look at all this attention, or like, wow, we're working with one of the biggest athletes in the world. Like, no one. It's been. This is someone that we are very close with. We need to drop everything and be there for him. And that's where, like, I'm so proud of my team from that perspective. Like, they are in it for the bigger picture. And it's such a rare thing to.

Have that is, you know, as you said, building that culture is easy, when things are easier, when things are going great. And just that speaks volumes about you as a, as a founder. And I hope you know that when it comes to building that team, what does that process look like for you? Right? Finding your initial team members, starting the company when you did, how have you gone about finding these key people that have that selflessness? Because, you know, that's. That's on you as a leader to qualify and bring on people that you believe can be positive and impactful to your organization. So how have you done that over the years? And, you know, I think it, again, speaks volumes to you as a founder that I'd love to learn from.

So I think part of it is, and I haven't always been this way. I've gotten a lot better at dealing with it. You know, when I first started out and I was in stressful situations, I probably was more passive aggressive than I should have been and, you know, wasn't handling crisis in the right way, like a Lot of it comes from when you are the person in power. You need to realize that you also need to be self aware of, of who you are and how you're coming off to people. It can't be, oh, they just need to do this because I say so type thing. And so that's where like my evolution as a founder has been important to me. So that's the first thing we'll say. Second thing, I think I've been in a unique position where no one who has, no one who works for me has not been an intern for me. Every single full time person was an intern for me at some time in some way even, or just contract work in some way. Because what I always say is like, it's a two way street. Like you got to know if you want to work here and I got to know if you're good to work here. So I'm going to pay you as an intern, as a contractor. Let's go three months, see where we are. Let's go six months, here we are. And then from there, let's decide if it's good for both of us. That changes at scale, right? Like, you can't do that when you have, you know, 25, 50 people. But that's how I. It's allowed me to create such a strong core of people that I trust and I know do a really good job.

That's awesome. I wanted to bring back up what you said because it keeps coming back to the top of my mind during this conversation, which is this idea of humanizing athletes. And I'm huge when it comes to gratitude and just like being, reflecting on things that, you know, the things that to be grateful for. And I remember seeing like when you put out an update and just everyone's curious about demar's health, seeing that, you know, things were looking good and moving in the positive direction. It's like this overall overwhelming sense of gratitude. As someone that doesn't know him, that you know, that saw this happen. I was filled with gratitude in that moment as just knowing that he's good and he's okay. I'd love to ask you, not only what are you grateful for, but what has, what have you learned about this moment when it comes to life in general outside of business and just being there for people when they need you. Because I think this just, it's a big moment that I've learned from as an outsider about being grateful, whether that's for the next game, for the next play, whatever it may be, and just taking things as is. And you know, not over complicate, over complicating things at times.

I think, you know, like we have a big announcement today. Like we're announcing that we're partnering with the XFL to be their player branding partner, Epic. And it's going to start talking about business. But it'll kind of go into the question you were asking. When, when that happens, people are going to immediately say, what? Oh, this is happening. They like they're getting us because of the DeMar situation. I've been working in the XFL thing for about a year. Right. And you just never know when that time is going to come, where everything's going to hit for you in general, in business, friendship, life, relationships, etc, and it's all a matter of investment. And like demar is a perfect example. Like, I've been investing time in demar because I believe in him as a person. Like when he was in college. I don't, I'm not a draft scout. Like, I wouldn't, I didn't know he was going to, you know, be drafted and turned into player. He was, he wasn't even the one who was receiving a lot of hype at pit. It was just like, I know this person and I want to build a genuine relationship with him and I'm willing to invest time. Just like there's plenty of other people I've invested time in who didn't turn out to be demar. But if you invest in the, the right things that match your mission, your passion, have the same mindset as you, it's going to work out for you in some way, whether it's business, but it'll work out for you in life because it's not, it's time well spent. You know, you're investing time in things that are going to give you fulfillment. Not transactionally. There's too many transactional relationships because those will never last. If your intentions are transactional, it's hard to sustain that. You got to wake up every day and be fake and figure out the angle. But if you could just genuinely be and offer legitimate, unique value, what's going to work out for you in some way and if it works out in business, that's great. But that's not, you can't think of that. That's not the sustainable way. So it just so happened that this worked out from a business perspective. But what's been important to me is being able to be there for someone that I've grown very close with and helping to protect him and be there for him in A time of need. Just playing a small role.

Yeah, that's awesome. And I mean on the business front as well. Congrats on that. So this is announcing today. Xfl.

Yeah, yeah, it'll come out tonight.

Yeah, Very, very exciting. So by the time this is airing, the news is live. You said you were working with them for a year and now you get to announce this. What does this mean?

Working on it, trying to get it.

Working on it, working. What does this mean for you, the company? And again, this is airing after, after the announcement. So whatever amount of detail you want to get into, it's would love to hear more because that's super exciting and congrats again.

Thank you. Yeah, I think like it really goes into. And this is why it's so important to have your own unique value prop, your own unique vision. Where we have been saying for a while athletes are not being marketed correctly and if you give them the right education, the right platform, the right resources, you have individuals who can create social change, who are. They are the ultimate influencer. They all are the ultimate role model. But athletes have not been good at being role models on social media or showcasing their personality outside of sports. I said it's rich kids in la, right? Rich kids in LA are really good in being influencers. Right? That's.

Well, why?

Well, because, you know, they understand how to gamify the system of social media and they understand how to play the game. You understand how to, you know, be this way with, with this trend or be that way. But athletes have very much like I play my sport, people pay attention to me. Well, that doesn't translate into people caring about your opinion, people trusting you, people wanting to build relationships with you. You have to do more. So the idea here is, well, they very much have that potential in them, but their entire lives have been spent of people just kind of handing things to them but not wanting them to have a voice. So from our perspective, it's how do we give them that, how do we give them the tools, the resource, the platform to have that voice. So that's how we got the xfl. That's how we got to more. It's how we've done things in Nils, but it's been doing it with conviction, you know, been doing it for years and not giving up on that because you believe so much in your mission. So now like the xfl, we're going to be their player branding partner, personal brand coaches for the xfl. It's a big league, it's the Rock owns the league. Like It's a huge deal for us.

Wow, that is so incredible to hear. Like, I'm genuinely so excited for you guys and just hearing the way you break that down, right? Like I, I learned so much in that statement that you just said about personalizing people making getting people to know like and trust you a huge part of marketing overall. And these athletes haven't been taught that what you're doing is so important because I'll say as someone that follows a handful of athletes on social, the ones that's what you are preaching that show personality, show this different side of them versus just the player on the field. And this highlight moments you have a completely different relationship with them as a, as someone that's following them, as someone that may be supporting them and buying different products. They have. And it's such an important role that you're playing for these athletes that haven't, haven't done that in the past or even expected to do that overall. So before we have a couple more questions before we wrap up, but where this perspective of personal branding for athletes or where do you see it evolving over time and how do you see it becoming more and more important as time goes on of this intersection of media and sports and building personal brands for these different athletes?

Yeah, I think so. NIL has created a shift, right? Like it's incentivized athletes to want to build their brands. I've always said that athletes are best known for hating, hating that they are misunderstood, but being incredibly vague, right? Like you're vague everywhere and then you hate that you're misunderstood. You're very mysterious, right? Like everything's a song lyric. I said, you know, athletes are nothing more sometimes than an NBA young boy or Drake lyric. Every, like it's all you see from them. It's like you're much more than that. Of course you're going to be misunderstood. You're not being vulnerable, you're not telling people about things that you're passionate about. So I think as you see more athletes become incentivized by nil, they're going to become competitive now because they can directly benefit from it. So when you are able to create a competitive environment, that's when you find ways to develop unique positioning. So athletes may hate watching film, but they watch film. Why? Because it's their competitive drive is making them want to watch film. So I think as we evolve, athletes competitively are going to say, well why the hell is this kid getting more tick tock views than me? I gotta figure out tick tock. It's coming and you see the, the younger generation, Gen Z especially is being more vulnerable online, you know, having a better understanding of how to engage an audience. And I think the play here is, I don't know, from a licensing perspective. Like athletes know, licensing deals, products, you know, you're seeing like Bijan Robinson at Texas launched Bijon Mustard. So like you're seeing more things like that come to play. You see more athletes getting on boards, getting equity. Because the biggest issue I think brands have seen with partnering with athletes so far is influencers. Brand partnerships is their full time job. Athletes, their sport is their full time job. Getting a brand deal is like, oh, sure, I'll post it. Well now they're seeing, oh dang, I gotta be better than that. I gotta figure out how to be better with those things. So you're gonna see an evolving mindset.

I, I know that people listening to this are gonna be watching that over again. That's super valuable. Two more questions before you wrap up. One is, I wanted to circle back to something I said that I believe we can really dive deeper into, which is, you know, success, fame, it amplifies you. It doesn't change you, it amplifies you. Being someone that has worked so closely with Demar over all of these years, what are some of the key characteristics that, you know, we've talked about today that you know that have amplified him? And how do you define Demar when it comes to who he is as a person after working with him for so long?

I think you know who you are will always come to light. And when you are in a situation where there's a lot of attention on you, you need people to back up who you say you are because that's the only way to use, sustain. And the most sustainable business model, I always say, is being yourself. Because it's very hard to keep a shtick going. Sure, you can do it online, but you're absolutely miserable. I'm sure you know people, influencers, who, their shtick is their entire online Persona and they hate their lives. Because social media in a lot of ways can be therapeutic if you're using it to have an impact. Everyone wants to be a role model. I don't care what it says, everyone wants to be a role model in some way. So using social media with a platform and you're able to have an impact, educate, add value, you're seeing a positive return, return and fulfillment of how you use social media. But if you're doing it in a way where it's strictly to get likes if it's strictly self serving, you're going to be miserable. So someone like Demar, being someone that's been so willing to give, being so genuine, being so authentic, well, when you times that by a million would only becomes more impactful and fulfilling for him. And the reason why is because he had all of these things about him that stayed true through every step of his journey. And that is like you see the shift in social media, social media, etc, everyone's tired of contrived, everyone's sick of it. You can pick up, you know, right away if something is forced and that's why a lot of brands are struggling. But you can do it in a way where it's like, no, I know that this is real. I can sense that this is real. You're going to see a, a, a massive return. I think that's what happened in the situation with Demar.

Yep. Last question before you wrap up, Jordan. Looking into the future of your business and you know, the, the situation overall, what are you excited about Moving forward into 20, 23 and beyond when it comes to your agency, the business and just really capitalizing in a positive way on this situation that occurred with Demar and more importantly, your friend.

Yeah, I think business perspective, it's going to war with big agencies because I think that not and this isn't a knock at anyone that works at a big agency. I know some people and they're great people. But I think that being in a model, a system to where it can be personalized for you is a much better play for a lot of athletes, a lot of influencers, a lot of noteworthy people, you know, even you, Casey, you know, you throw you in a system with a big agency and sure there's things that are already set up and things that are going to come in and you know, this person turned down this deal so they have this deal for you. Right. It's a tiered system in a lot of ways. They're A level or below their C level, whatever, which is great and you know, it's a safe way to play. But I think you're going to see more people are going to say, hey, I want ownership over what I do. I want to feel a part of it. I want to do the things that mean the most to me. And that is what we push and look to provide is to give them the ownership over what they're doing and provide a personalized approach and give them their own team. So from a business perspective, it's not a revenue goal, it's not a client goal. It's a mission goal. It's. And it's not just about us. It's about. Here's a good example. You know everyone's been talking about crypto, right? And you know, finance's CEO, whatever was like, this FTX stuff isn't good for, for crypto at all. Like, yeah, sure, it's, it's a. You've taken away a competitor, but it's caused people to lose sight of the bigger mission. And like, for me, it's not just about us as an agency. I want to support other people who are also on the same mission because they're not competitors with me. They're also along. They have the same vision as me. So it's not just about me elevating what I do, but it's being loud and proud about it so I can hopefully inspire the next people who want to do what I do. Because we have to create a societal shift to be able to really fulfill what we want to do. Yep.

I love that. Well, Jordan, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Before I let you go, where is the best place for everyone listening or watching for them to follow you, to learn more about your agency, to stay in touch with all the updates that have, that you guys have coming out in all these different, on all these different platforms?

I mean, Twitter, I guess now, I mean, I really hate tweeting. Like, I have 130,000 followers. They're not. I don't even know what to do with. I mean, mean, I'll figure it out. But Twitter and Instagram, Jordan. R J O R D O N R. Love it.

And I'll make sure to link all that down below. And for everyone listening, watching, thank you so much for tuning in. Jordan, again, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Really appreciate your time.

Thanks, Casey.