Josh Snow - The Apple of Oral Care

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Welcome to the Rise of the Young podcast. On today's episode, this is gonna be a good one. I have two guest hosts with me, my good friends Kieran o' Brien and Jeff, AKA JR Garage. And our guest today is the one and only, Josh Snow. Thanks so much for coming on, brother.

Guys, thanks for visiting the snow cave.

Hey, absolutely. So first off, Kieran, Jeff, this is different. We're all from the same town. We've never been guest hosts on the podcast. How do you feel? Yeah, I'm excited. Let's go.

We're all from Virginia, all got different perspectives and ideas and all things we.

Bring to the table.

And got some exciting questions for Josh today for sure.

So, Josh, we're at the snow cave like you said. For those who may not know what snow teeth whitening is, what is snow? Where did it come from?

Snow is. I mean, snow is essentially the crest and colgate of the future is how I like to summarize it. We're a different customer base than a lot of toothpaste and mouthwash companies, but we're definitely essentially what you see happening with direct to consumer companies. There's an upgrade in deodorant, there's an upgrade in body wash, there's an upgrade in cologne, there's an upgrade in clothing, but oral care has been kind of left behind. So we're in the business of selling confidence at the end of the day. So the smile being a big piece of that. So we Started off as snow teeth whitening. Now we're known as Snow Laboratories. We don't sell anything we haven't invented or created. Over a million monthly shoppers, 500,000 Instagram followers, and now we've got a bunch of exciting stuff coming up. But it came from seeing an opportunity in oral care because I had jaw surgery a few years ago, and I spent a bunch of money because my dentist, orthodontist was like, yo, you gotta go buy this for your dry mouth. You gotta buy this type of toothpaste. So I was trying everything, and I remember looking at the pile of stuff, like, $400 worth of stuff, and I'm like, it all looks like, you know, crap to me. Like, in terms of, like, I spent a lot of money on this stuff. I would never Instagram any of this. Like, the. It looks ugly. I want to hide it underneath my sink. The ingredients, like, I couldn't understand anything that was in it. And a lot of times, like, one said, whitening, extra whitening. One said, this, that, this. But they all had, like, pretty much the same ingredients. So I'm like, something's going on here. And I said, you know, I think there's an opportunity here. So I started with teeth whitening just because I saw there was a gap between in office treatments that cost, you know, 400, 500, $600, and then strips that cost 30, 40, 50 bucks. There wasn't anything in the middle that gave the results of a dental treatment, but the convenience of a strips at a decent price, affordable price. So that's where snow teeth whitening came from. And then once that exploded, our customers started asking for toothpaste, mouthwash, floss. So now we're rolling out the rest of that line.

I love it. And we met through. It was through you, Kieran. You connected with Josh. How long ago?

Yeah, so Josh. Yeah, Josh came on a rally with one of my clients, and that's how we all met. And then I talked to you because you had your license plate on your i8 said Facebook ads.

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

I love Facebook ads. So we talked about that. And then that's why I found out about Snow. Invited him to the first build your empire event.

Yep.

And then the rest is history.

Amazing. Amazing. And now I'm curious, too. So, like, you started at what age as an entrepreneur?

Like, 13? Yeah, 12. 13 years old is when I realized that. I mean, initially it was just like, I wanted to make money, you know, it was like, how can I make money? I can't go Get a job. So, like, how am I gonna make money? Is like, somehow I stumbled into like, web development, designing websites, etc. Facebook ads wasn't really even a thing back then. YouTube, like, there weren't even YouTube ads. So, like, it was, for me, it was like building a website was like the first step. And then once I learned how to make a website, I realized that I could do that for other people. So then it was like I started doing as a service, you know, 500 bucks a pop. 500 there, 500 here. And then after a while I was like, okay, I'm getting really good at making websites. How do I build a team to help me build more websites? And then I just went to Google and was like, how to hire people online. I found like, freelancers, you know, odesk elance, freelancer.com I was like, okay, this is crazy. I could talk to someone on Skype across the world who could make a website for me on my team, and I could sell that website for more money. So that just started growing over time. And then eventually I had to learn marketing and advertising because I was going from client to client to client, just making 500 bucks, thousand bucks a pop. But I was like, where can I make, like, money every month? Otherwise I'm gonna have to get a job. And so I didn't have my own computer when I started. So, like, once I figured out marketing, advertising, that's when it all took. Like, it really just took off. Like, it took me three years to like, really figure out web development. That's like 18 hours a day. I was thinking about it straight. Once I made one penny, all I could think about was like, I just made a penny. Like, you know, not having to talk to anybody. I was like, this is crazy. I remember Google AdSense added the AdSense on the blogs I was creating. And I would like wake up in the morning and I like, I need to know, how much money did I make? How much money to make? And then the first iPhone came out, 2007. And I sold like my algae, like, slide phone and like sold a bunch of stuff I had. And then, you know, I come from super humble beginnings. So my dad was like, all right, I'll help you out. Like a hundred bucks, 200 bucks. Because the first iPhone, like, you had to pay full price for it, you know. And I remember seeing Steve Jobs present it on stage, and I was like 12 years old or 13 years old, and I was like, I need that phone. And I was like, one day I want to have a product where people say, I need that. And one day I want to get on a stage and talk to people like that. And I was like, first step is to get that phone. And once I got that phone and now put the Internet, that was iPhone One, like, it was just called the iPhone. I had the Internet full screen in my palm. And I remember everyone saying, oh, like, where's your touch? Where's your keyboard? Like, you can't do that. Like, that's stupid. And it was a niche product. Apple iPhone was niche. No one had it, so I had it. And for me, I can now Google everything. So now my teacher would say, something, I Google it. I think of something, I Google it. I could save notes. I had that computer in my hand. And that's what set me off to understanding how to build a business in the palm of my hands. First by servicing clients, building stuff for other people. And then eventually was like, marketing and advertising sales is where still today is where I've made all my money is in that stuff. But understanding design, understanding development helped me get started. And by providing a great service at a low cost is how I got my start.

You touched on marketing there, so I think it'd be an interesting perspective. Perspective for the viewers. So you've done incredible job with influencer marketing, of course, and then you've also done paid marketing. What's your. What's the best ROI in your perspective? What's it done best in your past with snow?

The best. Okay, I'll give you the direct answer, which is like, Facebook ads aren't as good as they used to be. I mean, it's just the nature of it. It's much more difficult. You have million tens of millions of advertisers worldwide now where when I started in 2012, there were like 2 million advertisers. Like, that's it. And you could drive a click for a penny. You can't do that anymore. And the way I explain is Facebook ads is CPM based, means cost per thousand views. So if I have a parking spot in front of the most. The hottest restaurant in town, okay, which is Facebook, and I have that parking spot right up front where. Well, you've got a bid for that parking spot against a Bugatti. So somebody's got Bugatti, he's like, I'll pay 2,000 for that parking spot. Then you got a bid against a guy in Dubai who sells oil. And he's like, well, I want to park my helicopter that. I'll pay 50,000 for that. You're paying for the same spot in front of that hot restaurant, which is the eyeball. So the eyeball is now being sold to the highest bidder. Well, when you have 20 million people bidding for the same eyeball, who's going to win? I can't outbid a jewelry brand that makes $2,000 profit on a sale of a product. It's hard for me to outbid that person. So it is becoming more difficult. It's still one of the best places to launch a business. Instagram ads, Facebook ads. I think right now our highest ROI marketing, aside from to our customers, like email marketing, SMS marketing, anything to your own customers is always going to be the best. But we have, we're starting to build an army of affiliates and ambassadors who are selling our products for us. So our top earning affiliates, I mean, it's a big month this month, but we'll probably make 2, 300,000. I see the wires going out every week and he's got a wire coming to him for 41,000 Monday for a week's worth of work. So he's making two, three million dollars a year promoting our products for us. That's big. And then eventually it'll be like dental offices, retailers. So when we sell to Costco or we sell to Target, Costco can only take a 14% margin. It's based on their. They're chartered, they have to save people the most money. They make their money on memberships, not on signed products. So they sell, I think, 53 billion a year or something like that of products and they make 2 billion of profit. And like half of that comes from membership fees or more. So that means that they're looking for a good price. But I know my margin when I'm selling to Costco, I know I'm going to make $5 a product or $2 a product. The nice thing about Costco is they buy a lot of product and they sell a lot of product. So I'm thinking through, I'm thinking the millions of tubes of toothpaste when I'm working to Costco, Walmart, Target, versus one by one to my customers. So on a per unit basis, it's called the unit economics. Each unit I'm making a little bit of money, but multiplied by a million tubes a week, then I'm making a lot of money. And that's how the big brands at Costco make so much money, because they're selling millions and millions of cans of soda, of cans of this. So that eventually becomes the most profitable by number. Most profitable per unit are our Customers, sms, email, and then our affiliates and partners that drive a lot of volume with hundreds of them, we make money. We try to give as much of the profit to our affiliate and our partners because then they're building our brand for us. So we try to give almost all of our profit up. Now the real answer that I'll give you, the way I look at it, the biggest profit is just continue to grow the brand. So we, whether it's celebrity endorsements, whether it's breaking even on Pinterest, just so that we're everywhere. TV ads, which we just rolled out nationwide. I'm going on Home Shopping Network every month. I'm on my third segment now. Anytime I can get in front of a lot of people and talk about the brand, that's the most profitable cause long term, it builds the value of the brand. So for me, I'm not looking to buy a Lambo, right? I'm not looking to, you know, spend money on a watch or something. I'm looking to, you know, 10 years from now, 50 years from now, you know, buy the watch company, right? It's like I want to buy Rolex, the company. I don't want to buy Rolex right now, right? Like, I haven't bought a new watch in two and a half years. And you know, I pay myself 60,000 a year from the company only because I have to through tax purposes. I pay $0 out of snow 0, $60,000 a year. I'm one of the lowest paid salary employees here and it comes out every two weeks. And I make about $40,000 a year after taxes. So everything that I have, all of my cars, I pay all my stuff cash. I own everything outright. But that's because I built my foundation. It's a 12 year overnight success story. I've built and sold multiple businesses to now get to this point to pour millions of dollars of my own money into snow so that maybe If I'm lucky, 10 years from now, I can go buy a couple helicopters.

So do you think you could quickly touch on what those first few businesses are? Because I think like the average viewer and listener for Casey's podcast And for Jeffrey's YouTube channel, they're younger, they're like, oh, it must be nice to be able to just pay yourself 60,000 and reinvest all that money you made in the beginning. So what did you do in the beginning? What were those first few companies that you sold? Can you kind of touch on like what those.

The thing is, see, this is the thing. And I don't know if there's a way, like one day when I have kids, like I'm going to try to teach them this. But I don't think people. I didn't listen from 12 to 20, I didn't listen to anybody. So like it's, it's hard to like teach wisdom. Like you have to kind of go through it. But you know, when I was getting started, I wanted the Lambo, right? It's like that's all I wanted. Like in my mind it's like I want the Gucci shoes. Like I want, I want the Rolex watch. In my mind those are signs of wealth and I come from nothing. So I wanted to like show people around me and my community, et cetera, that I'm making it, that I'm. You know, it's funny because when you're on the come up, you want everybody to know you're coming up. Once you made it, you want nobody to know you really made it. Unless you're like have a huge ego or something like that. Now I've got the Ferrari, I've got the McLaren, I've got the nice cars, but I don't think about them the same way. Like, it's just different, you know, I think I just turned 27, you know, 17 year old me, you know, when I bought my first Lamborghini, I was like 20 years old, Ferrari, about a red Ferrari yellow Lamborghini Gallardo convertible. Like the most pompous car I could get. You know, that's what I got. The louder I could make it, the better. The more bling on the watch, the better the. I want the Gucci that has all the Gucci all over it so everyone knows it's Gucci now. I'm like $10 h&m shirt. I'm like, I like this brand, you know, I'm like, this is fucking sick, you know, so but I think that you have to go through that process, you know, it's like I can't sit here and be like, don't think about the Lambo, don't do that. Like I did that. You know, I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on cars. You know, by 21 years old I made first million dollars, 17. So like give a 17 year old $1 million, see what he does with it. He's going to go buy a Lambo, you know, like he's going to go buy the Gucci, you know, he's got, it's, that's just what happens. But I feel like you have to go through that process and you enjoy it. You know, it's like I used to always say, oh, money isn't my happiness. Well, give me the money, I'll be happy. I'll show you. And eventually you realize, like, money buys convenience. Like for me, when I fly first class or I fly private, it's because I travel so much and I'm closing a deal and it just, it makes sense, right? And it's. Maybe it's a tax write off, like, how can I do that? But for me, like, buying a watch doesn't give me the same pleasure that it used to be, because now I buy watches for me, not for other people. And I think that when you. So to answer your question, starting out, you want to do stuff for other people. I think that's one of the best ways to build your business. That's what I did. I was like $500 to make you a website in two days. I'll tell you what, you know, you charged one tenth the cost to everybody and you deliver. That's what's key. I think the problem right now with Instagram and social media is that people can seem, they have the pressure to seem successful. They can seem successful and then they have this like, duty now to pretend they're successful. And there's like, perpetuates this kind of feeling. And then you kind of go home at night and you're like, I'm an imposter. And then if someone sees me out, it happens on all sides. I work with a lot of influencers and there are some, you know, guys and girls that can't leave the house unless they look exactly like their last Instagram post. Because if someone sees them in public and they're not like that, oh my gosh, right? It's like, I gotta make sure my hair done's nailed, done all this stuff. So I think that you got to start by being a servant, essentially. How can I help you, sir? Like, you got to move up the rank somehow. And for me it was like, hello, sir, I'll make you a website for $500, sir. When would you like it done? Okay, sir, can you give me $200 to get started? Thank you, sir. Like initially it's like Adsense, 20 cents a click. Okay, thank you. Like, you have to start humbly and keep your ego in check along the way. Because what happens is then you start saying like, oh, no, I'm not taking on a client unless they're paying me 20,000amonth. Screw that, I hate those clients. Meanwhile, they're the ones paying your Bills, right? So like you have to start looking at. Just like I look at every customer, every time someone gives us 150 bucks, that's 150 bucks they could have done something else with. Those are my investors. I now owe it to them to deliver the product, make sure it works, serve them, and hopefully I earn their business to come back. So like initially do something for someone else, whether that's whatever, like when I was a kid, mowing lawns, whatever. You have to do something as a service. That's the best way to build a business for you. Not to get a traditional job, but it's not easy. You're unknown, you know nobody. You got a cold call, you got to go to the little meetups, you got to say, tell your, say what you do, make your business cards and you got to humble yourself. I make websites for 500 bucks and I hope they're worth 2,000 to you, sir. Would you refer business to me? I had a book of business by the time I switched over to marketing advertising. I had hundreds of People I made $500 websites for. And they're like, God, that website was amazing. I got it for 500 bucks. I took advantage of that little kid. That's what they thought, right? And they're like, okay, I feel like I owe him now. He did do a great job on the website. He's doing marketing advertising now and he's doing it cheaper than everyone else. Alright, I'll give him a shot. So you just kind of, you work your way up then. By the time I was 18, 19 years old, websites were costing $500,000. But it's like, it wasn't initially I was like, I want to charge 500,000 because if I sell two of those, I get two lambos. Like, it's like, you know, that's called the come up math, right? It's like, and that's normal, you got to do that. The come up math is if I sell this many snow kits, I can. And then I remember, like I talk about some dramas, podcast. Like I remember looking up, you know, how much it costs to lease a Lambo. And I'm like, okay, $2800 a month. Okay, if I get two clients, they, they pay me 1400 after this. And I'm like, all right, I could lease it, but I need a down payment. So I think if I sell this, you start doing that come up math, right? And you're like, all right, that new Gucci shoes are $800. Or if I close this deal, I'll do that. The problem is there are a lot of people going around that are selling services, selling things and not delivering. And you have to remember to build a business, to build a brand. Always deliver if you can't over deliver, but you always have to deliver and then you become that guy. Like Josh is like Josh is going to tell you what it is, he's going to say it how it is. He might be a little rough, he might be a little awkward or whatever, he might make you feel awkward, but he's going to tell you how it is. If he can do it, he's going to do it. He's going to do it. If you do that over and over and over again, even if that's saying, y' all pick up the groceries for you. All right, cool. Go pick up groceries. Yo, I'll be there at 3:45 or I'll be there at 3:45. No, I can't make it. Then don't make it. Yes, I can make it. Then make it right. So like it's very important for you to do, to stick to what you're, you know, building a brand. But I think the easiest way for anybody to get started is selling a service to somebody else.

When do you think the right time is for someone that's in the service business that wants to therefore eventually manufacture their product, create a brand so that they can think in terms of that 50 year window like you talk about, because you're, you're young, right? You're 27 and we were talking earlier, you're thinking in terms of 56 years with snow, right? You've changed your mindset from like you said, the come up math to something way bigger picture. What do you recommend for someone that may be in the service business now that is looking to eventually make that step into a core product?

Well, I think that, you know, it took me, it took me maybe six or seven years, you know, I started really young, you know, but it took me six or seven years to get to that point. Because it was always like, when I make X amount of money, then I'll do it. Or like once I'm at this certain level, then I'll do it. But it keeps also drawing you in, like it's a slippery slope. Because then you're like, that's why I'm saying it's hard because you start making a certain amount of money, then you start buying Gucci and Louis, then you go and buy a Lambo and Ferrari. So then your lifestyle expenses get higher and higher. So you have to Keep doing what you're doing to keep that up. So it's tough. The easiest, when you're young, you have a huge advantage. You don't have kids. You don't have a wife. You don't have a house to take care of. Like, you don't have expenses of a normal, average adult. So that's the time that instead of buying Gucci and Louis, you should be buying product samples. And you should be, like, figuring that stuff out. If that's what you want, you should be thinking about it a few years I started. If you go and look when trisnow.com was registered, it's probably 2014, right? So, like, I didn't act on it until I had jaw surgery, and it became more realization. But I've been prepping for this since I was 24 in 2014. That was, you know, five, six years ago. You know, that was before even High Smile got their domain name. I mean, this was a long time ago. So you got to start scheming now, and you've got to start planning your exit from a service business or product business two, three years ahead. What happens is that you get a bad client, you get pissed off. You're sick and tired of it, and you're like, this is it. I'm only taking 20,000amonth clients. You start to, like, level up and say, that's it. I'm only taking the good clients. And. And you start being picky. And then you start. Then you start building this resentment almost like senioritis. And now when the client's calling, you're like, oh, now when you got to. You get a new client, like, oh, you start hating it. That's senioritis. You get senioritis in your own business. You want to get out of it. The problem is you start to resent your business, and then you get what's called burnout. And then you're just sick and tired of it. Then you can't do anything. So you have to think two years out. Be patient. The younger you are, the longer you have until you die. So, like, chill out, okay? You got 50 years. Lambos aren't going anywhere. Ferraris aren't going anywhere. They're only gonna get bigger, badder, and better and faster. It's okay, you know, no one's going anywhere. No one's going anywhere. That's what I want to tell young people is like, chill out. And you may not be able to listen to me. Cause maybe when I was 17, I wouldn't be able to listen to myself, but it's like, chill out, dude. Like, the Internet's not going anywhere. You know, there's Instagram, well, there was MySpace and then Facebook and now Instagram and Snapchat and TikTok. Yeah, chill. If you don't become viral on TikTok tomorrow, that's okay. That's okay. You know, for me, I was on the come up right after the recession. So for me, you know, I had to really focus on the services. I couldn't jump into creating a product. That was scary. Like, what product am I going to create? And I've got all these good ideas. Then when you're a marketer, you're like, I got a thousand ideas. So I would like keep them in a book. Keep them in a book. And I remember registering try snow.com because I was like, I love that name. I think that makes sense for oral care. I was like, maybe I'll one day come up with an oral care brand. I don't know, just sat on it. And certain times when you feel like you're starting to lose interest in what you're doing, sometimes you have to think about why you're doing it. Sometimes. You know, the truth is a lot of people don't like your job. But you got bills to pay, right? And so sometimes we take on clients where I'm like, oh, this is going to be a rough one, but I got a bill to pay, I've got employees to pay, I got rent to pay. So I'm like, I'm going to do it, I'm going to smile and I'm going to over deliver again, you know, so like I'm going to, I'm going to grab the situation and make it my own and take advantage of it in a good way. And I'm going to over deliver. But I think you start to plan two years ahead and say, okay, do I have a really good idea? Do I have something that I can start on now? Can I get some samples in? Can I get some the logo made? Can I get the website made? Can I start posting about it, getting feedback? You can start two years ahead of time and don't worry like, oh my God, if I tell someone the idea, they're gonna steal it. The more people I tell my idea, the more powerful I become and the more that I speak on stages and the more followers I get, the more everyone else becomes a me too. Because I am the loudest speaker in the room, right? It's like, you know, if you speak loudly enough, people will think everything came from you. Like people send Me stuff sometimes where they're like, yo, this brand's ripping you off. I'm like, no, that one's not. I'm like, that one's been around for 20 years. They're totally different. But because I speak louder than everybody, then it gets to lead that trend. So start thinking about your services business. Start thinking about building a team so you're not doing all the work. Start with Filipinos online, freelancing, whatever. Move toward freeing up time so that you're not on client calls all day and that you're not designing the website all day and buying media Facebook ads all day. Start pulling yourself out of the day to day so that you can simply think. And that clarity will help open the door to what is, like, your next step.

That makes sense. You guys anything or can I shoot another one?

So some of those, for the people who aren't aware on the video, you've obviously worked with some amazing partners.

Celebrities.

I was gonna say that.

Can you rattle off a few? I know we know of them. But to those who don't, they see your Kowski jersey on the wall.

They go, what the heck is that for? Yeah, I was. Yeah, it was yesterday. We were filming the Kelly Clarkson show with Rob, and he had on his snow jacket. So you'll see that pretty soon. Yeah. We've been fortunate since day one to attract celebrity customers, which I think is unique. Our brand is, I think, from day one, we invented everything we sell. We'd invented, right. Anything that powers into a phone, we invented that. Like all of our products, our formulas, everything is made with extreme thought. Our packaging, every piece of that is deliberate, and we're optimizing it every month while everyone else is optimizing their ads. I'm optimizing my packaging. I'm optimizing my technology. So everybody's focused on treating their customer as a number. What was my roas today? Return on ad spend? What was my cost today? That's important. That's cool. But when you're building a brand, what's my return on customer experience? What's my return rate of products? How fast did I get the product to the customer? Am I drop shipping? Why am I drop shipping? Past three months, if you got a product that's taken off, you better be shipping it from your room. Snow started from. Granted, it's a huge house, but it started from my spare room in my massive house. And I wrote the first ads, I made the first website, and I shipped every product. I learned how to use shipping, easy to print labels, and I'm a multimillionaire at this point, right? Multimillionaire, sitting there, learning how to print labels, learning about Shopify, learning how to code Shopify. So you got to humble yourself even when you're at a different level. And so for me, when I started Snow, I could have went on and hired a bunch of team, like, team members. I could have went and hired the best of the best. For me, it was like, no, no, no. I'm going to spend six months reading everything I can about teeth whitening, oral care, learn about the market. I printed every label out every morning. I saw every name on there. I saw where it was going. And I would see trends in your business when you're that intimate with your business. I didn't see just a return on ad spend. I saw Becky Lewis from Virginia who ordered three kits. And guess what? I did. I picked up the phone and I said, hi, Becky, how's it going? This is Josh from Snow. I want to thank you for your order. I was curious, what made you order? What made you choose us? Oh, this and that. And then I'd give her a $25 gift card to the store. She can come back. I'd make a gift card in Shopify, send it right to her. I started talking one by one by one to every single one. Becky, Karen, John and Joe. I'm on the phone with them and I said, what made you choose us over someone else? Have you ever whitened your teeth before? What were the issues with that? And all of a sudden, my ads got better and better and better because I was selling to the Beckys, who's already bought. So now it's like this product was, you know, this product is made for blank. You know, our product, our formula. The reason why our formula formula started pretty basic now. Like, it's so complex because of talking to every customer. They're like, oh, even down to the viscosity, which is how thick the liquid is. Like, they're like, oh, it runs down my lips. And I don't like that. I slobber too much. We made that. That mouthpiece has been redesigned a hundred times to fit every mouth as universal as we can. I literally went in and got molds of. When they do all the types of molds, the companies that do molds, like braces and stuff, to understand what the universal mouth looks like in America versus our customers in Mexico, we ship to 180 countries. Mouths are different everywhere, so depending on their diet, depending on their hereditary genetics. So I went to that level where you have to obsess over the customer first, obsess over the product second. And then really the key is to obsess over your team once you build a team. So, you know, I think that because of that, we started getting some early celebrity customers. And we downloaded put an app on there called User Gems on Shopify. It might still be around. It was free when I was using it. It sorts your customers by how many followers they have in Shopify. So then it was like all of a sudden, I would pull up that list and I would put an email notification on there, and they would. It would email me every time someone over a thousand followers, 10,000 followers, 20,000 followers. That was like, this is really cool. Then I went on odesk, which is now upwork.com I went on Upwork and put a job out to find the programmer to reverse search, like to Zillow the house value of the shipping address. So now I got a report in Google Docs every day of how much their house was worth. So when you know, you see something like a $20 million house in Beverly Hills or a $15 million house or a $5 million house, and you realize that they used a fake name to order, you can start to peel it back and see who's ordering, right? You know, you realize SV is really Sofia Vergara, and you see a $16 million zestimate, you're like, okay, that's clearly Sofia Vergara, right? And so, and you'll see that they order full price. They don't use a coupon code. They use Express Fresh shipping. They pay for everything, and they're buying it for themselves. So this next step to that was to say, who manages this talent? Who can I reach out to? To say, hey, so and so I noticed ordered from our store. Is there anything we could do together? I want to see if she likes the product. So initially it's not a shortcut, but if you make your product something that stands out, people will buy it. Like celebrities will buy it. They don't want to use strips because they seem cheap. They don't want to go to the dentist because they're always traveling. They're on tour. So when they see something that matches their aesthetic, they're going to buy it. So that's from like. That's a long answer. The short answer is thinking through what type of customers do you want to attract and which celebrities do they watch and follow. And for us, from day one, I thought about, I looked at the stats, and very few men were buying teeth whitening And I was like, hmm, I'll say, why don't men buy teeth whitening? I whiten my teeth. Like, why don't people, like, guys whiten their teeth? Oh, maybe it's girly. Like, maybe they see as girly. Maybe they don't recognize how important it is. So then I pulled the stats. Match.com did a study. The number one thing that females look at, 71% number one. The number one thing that they look at is smile. First impression is a smile. They don't know how much money you have. They're not looking at your car. If you walked into a restaurant, you know your penis isn't out. So they're like, you know, they don't care. Like, they're looking at your smile and how relatable and how, like, are you coming off as a confident person? Are you nice? They're reading that microseconds, right? So I'm like, okay, well, why don't I put that in front of other guys? Guys are spending all this money on protein powder and fat burners and all this crap. Why not spend it on your smile? That's something that's going to get you more sales deals, you're going to close more sales, et cetera. So then I said, who are the manliest men I could work with? Opportunity came up to meet Rob Gronkowski, who's now my business partner. I flew out to LA last minute. You got to be open to opportunity, but you got to also strike on the opportunity, right? You got to bounce around, you know, Casey, you're everywhere. You know that. Like, when there's an event coming up, there's something coming up. If I can make it, I'm going to make it. Because I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm just going to be there just in case. Because luck is opportunity and preparedness. I'm prepared for it because I'm there. And the opportunity is like a stream of river running through. I've got to be at every stream because I'm ready. So, you know, then Rob Gronkowski became a partner. I introduced myself, talked about what I was building, and he's like, honestly, I've never whitened my teeth. I was like, really? You never white your teeth? He's like, nah, never. Why? Never thought about it. I was like, that sounds like a lot of men. And he's like, does it cause sensitivity? I have super sensitive teeth. I was like, actually, that's what I made it for. Like, for sensitive teeth. He said, all right, how Long. Do you want me to use it? And I was like, 21 days. Give it a shot. He said, all right, I'm gonna use it for 21 days. If it does. If it works, it doesn't hurt my teeth. You'll get a call from me. I was like, deal. Here you go. Here's two. He took it and got a call at the end of the month, and it was like, how do we work on this? And today he's been, you know, a phenomenal partner. He's always posting about us. I was just with him at Kelly Clarkson. Chuck o' Dell I met the same day, who also became a business partner of mine. And so right away, we had a fighter and an NFL champion. Where UFC champion. NFL champion. Manly men. One can actually both can beat you up, but one's going to destroy you at 6 foot 7, and the other is going to knock your teeth out. So what do they have in common? They both use a mouthpiece. One to fight, one to play ball. This mouthpiece happens to whiten your teeth. So then I drew the connection. I said, there we go. We can tap into men where none of our competitors are tapping into using that. And then eventually, the Floyd Mayweather deal came about, and they had ordered the product, they liked the product. They saw one American company, and one thing led to the next, which you got to strike on the opportunity. But see, if you're so focused on Roas and all these other metrics, you forget what's happening in front of you, which are customers ordering. And you see Jennifer Lopez order, pick up the phone, call her manager, send an email, send her something special. Take advantage of what's happening in front of you instead of just letting it happen.

That makes sense.

So they're all customers. That's the important thing for you?

Well, I mean, we reach out. We reach out, you know, right? We. We reach out to. They have to love the product. I will not work with any celebrity, period, unless they love the product. The nice thing about that is they end up. They end up giving us a great deal, right? They end up saying, like, hey, you know what? Like, don't pay me right now, pay me later. Like, actually love this stuff. Can you send more for our whole team? And then all of a sudden, they want to work with you instead of just promoting, just holding a picture and like, I love this. All right, give me my money. They're like. They actually, like the product comes across.

Way more genuine with you.

100%.

I've seen his stuff. He's happy when he's talking about it.

Exactly.

Loves it in his Instagram stories.

Where do you think brands are going wrong when working with big influencers?

Yeah, a lot is happening there. I think the first thing is that they're not giving the. They're not giving the opportunity for the celebrity to really take part in the experience. So they're simply just sending a product, giving a script, and saying, post it. What we try to do is we try to understand how does this actually fit into the celebrity's lifestyle. Are they using it really in the restroom or are these in the kitchen? Or are they using it on their plane? Are they using it in an Uber? Like, where would they actually be using this? So we try to understand how does this actually fit in. And then we don't. Like, people are celebrity just to hold the photo. Love it. You know, because everyone knows that was paid. It doesn't come off as genuine. And what I think of is I try to put myself in the mindset. I started reading books on managing talent as if I wanted to become an all star manager. And I started reading about how do you protect a celebrity's brand equity? How do you choose which deals to say yes or no to? So now when I pick up the phone and it's a manager on the other side, I'm talking about things that he's like, are you a manager? Like, wait a second, what's going on? I read every book on Amazon, okay? Like, literally type in, like, sports management, Becoming a celebrity manager, how to become a celebrity agent. And I was like, I gotta learn their business because I'm not from Hollywood. I don't know it. I gotta learn. How do you build royalties into the deal? How do you do cash payments? What's a performance incentive? You know, how do we make the celebrity look good?

So.

So all of a sudden, instead of just put this in your mouth or, like, hold it like this, now we're thinking through, like, you know what? We're gonna wait before we post. We're gonna do a pink version or a red version. Cause we know you love red. Let's wait on it. So you start to think through that, and then the agent's like, yo, I appreciate that. Like, I appreciate you not just dangling money in front of us and saying, post something. You're thinking through it. Now we come out with lines specifically for our celebrities. So it's like, if it's a toothpaste flavor line, it's like, okay, here's the pink lemonade line. That's your line. You're gonna get paid forever on it. So I think brands think too short term. The number one problem is they try to make money off the post. That's the number one problem. And I've been saying this for a long time, but it now it's like really apparent. They try to make ROI the day one that the post goes out. So they're like, oh man, I pay Kylie Jenner 500 GS but I'm gonna make 550 or maybe I'll make a million. No, you look at Fashion Nova and Cardi B, they have been working together for four or five years now. That is so ingrained as part of her personality, Fashion Nova, in her songs and everything, that when they launched the Cardi B line, they did $10 million like right when they launched. That wasn't on accident. That was four or five years of grooming her audience. That it's a true partnership. So you just don't stumble into that. If Cardi B just posts your pants, yeah, you're not gonna get 10 million in sales. You might get a hundred thousand sales and pay her a million. But you also have to think of the longevity of that brand, Halo. So it's like if, you know, Michael Jordan posted my brand, people are going to remember that for a long time. People still come up to me and they're like, bro, Mayweather Post for you guys. And then the buyers from Costco and Target and all these places are like, oh yeah, we saw the Kardashians post about it. Or you know, like, you know, Kim Kardashian is posted with snow in it. Kylie Jenner, Chris, Kris Jenner. So they'll they remember that.

Yeah.

And so for me, guess what? There was no coupon code. We never use coupon codes. Right. Gronk has a coupon code when he promotes it. But like we don't use coupon codes, we don't use tracking links, we don't do link in bios, we don't do anything really. So the average company, that's scary, right? Because you're like, how am I supposed to track it? How am I supposed to know it's working? Well, you should know what's working based on your brand. Like if you know that Kim Kardashian is not a match for your brand and the fact that for five years people are gonna remember she posted for you, if that's not worth something to you, not good. And then we also work with a lot of like topic based influencers. So if we can be in a lot of places, our cost Per acquisition goes down on Facebook, our cost per action goes down on Pinterest. Like we run Pinterest ads, not because they generate positive roi, they don't make profit for us, but they drive down the cost of everything else. So the more we do everything else, the lower everything else costs means, the more that we can do of it. So you have to think of it that way. And I think brands look like, I got Kylie to post, I'm rich.

Yeah.

You know, it's like, no, Are you gonna get. You get her to post 10 times, come out with a line with her, Otherwise take the 500,000 or whatever Kylie's gonna charge you and go to TikTok. Influencers go to YouTube. Influencers get way more views in an authentic way over time. And instead of going for one big cottage underpost, the way I always say is, think of a pond, there are fish in there. Okay. If you throw a big boulder in there, you make a huge splash, but you kill all the fish and all the waters out of the pond. And now you have to go to another pond. What I try to do is I try to drop in a few big boulders here and there, but I try to drop in pebbles across the pond. So those circles that make they start to touch each other. And so now you see your girlfriend using snow, your mom using snow, and then you see Gronk using snow, then you're like, all right, I gotta buy it. At this point, it's not just Kylie Jenner using snow. It's a lot of people using snow.

Makes sense.

Yeah. I think my next question for you is where's it going from here? Like, not just product wise, but in terms of the brand, in terms of what mediums you're using. What is the world domination strategy from starting moving into 2020? So where's your head at right now?

I mean, our focus has always been, they call us the apple of or care. I think that the focus is to continue to create products that our customers are asking for. We've got 500,000 plus customers. They tell us what they want. They're very vocal when we ask them. We say, hey, what do you think of this flavor of toothpaste? Like, nah. Okay, thank you. You know, it saves us a lot of time, but I think creating more products is key. We have a lot of international customers. Turns out 7 billion people have teeth. So it's a big market. Right. So for us continuing to keep our lead, it's pretty cool to win the 100 meter dash once, but it's much Better to win it over and over and over and over and over again and beat a world record. Like that's more impressive than, you know, a fluke that you win once. So for me, it's racing the marathon and winning the ultimate race. So thinking of international markets, we do a lot in Southeast Asia, Latin America. Opening up our retail partners who have all come to us wanting to carry snow, that presents a huge opportunity for us. Continue to protect our brand patents, trademarks, our technology, continue to invest technology that is unique to us. And then, you know, I would say in terms of channels, TV, radio, podcasts, you know, YouTube, we're really now an omnichannel brand. We no longer just look at Facebook, we're looking at how does a TV ad help the podcast ad lead to someone buying it at Target. So now it becomes very complex. It's very difficult to track that when you're just running Facebook ads, you know, turn on ad spend. Got it right now. That's why no one can, you know, people that try to knock us off or try to enter our space, they'll be like, they'll do it for like a few weeks and sell 30 orders and lose money doing it. And they're like, how the hell is Josh doing this? Like, they don't get it. Well, because I can lose money on Facebook, millions because I make it up in Omnichannel. I'm so many places, I make it up everywhere else. Right. So ultimately I make it up. If I'm raising money now, my valuation's 150 million instead of 100 million. If you can't play that game, it's very hard. So I think that for us going Omnichannel tv, the more present we are, pop up shops, experiential, we're doing a lot more brand collaborations. So we have a brand collab coming out next month with Alaia Skin, they got the top selling like pink clay mask in the world. Two friends of mine based in Australia. So we've got like an arctic mud mask coming out that's anti aging. So doing a lot more brand collabs, celebrity collabs. We've got some big celebs coming on next year with full lines. So these, you know, these are an average of 100 million followers per person. So on Instagram, so you can imagine There are like 20 people with more than 100 million. We've got a few of them coming out with branded lines together. So and those are going into retailers, you know, like Ulta, Sephora, etc. So I would Say that's becoming something for us. But continuing to treat our customers with respect, continue to develop products that are unique that they would like and continue to build our brand internationally. And then team, you know, we're going to expand from this office. You know, when we got into this office, we had three employees. You know, we'll double size, if not triple size next year in team size. So finding great people is very, very key for me. And just continue doing more of what we do. Protecting our brand, growing our brand and protecting our customers by creating products that they really want and doing things that are unique, making sure that our partners are making money. It's very, very key for us. And we'll see what else happens. I mean, I knew that this was going to be big when we kind of figured something out that was unique. I didn't know that it was going to go as fast as it did. So you have to plan for the best and the worst. You know, you got to think of what happens if my business 10x's tomorrow. What, what will break first, what happens if it negative 10x is tomorrow, what will happen? So I'm always trying to plan what's that next step based on best and worst. That's why building a brand is probably the hardest thing you can do in life because you're now see when you're an agency, you're like, I'm just worried about Facebook ads for my client. That was me, right? Like Google Ads for a client. SEO, like whatever it was a website design. We know what we're doing okay here. I'm worried about my website, I'm worried about our Target.com listing. I'm worried about our celebrity partnership. I'm worried about our TV show, I'm worried about our TV ads. I'm worried about the product, the product quality, the inventory, supply chain, customer service, fulfillment, on and on, right. Ftc, fda. I'm worried about all the regulatory agencies international. I'm worried about a million things. So running a brand is, I would say building brands over the last six or seven years from moving from service to building brands has made me had to build a huge respect for people that have 100 million billion dollar brands. Shit is hard, right? It's very difficult. There's no way to sugarcoat it. It's probably the hardest thing you could ever do in entrepreneur. This is the Olympics of entrepreneurship because you have to come up with the product, market the product, sell the product, pr, I mean everything. And you realize, I'll tell you what though, if you have shiny Object syndrome. Start a brand and focus on it for three years. You will never have shiny object syndrome again in your life. I promise you. Because you will realize like snow. We've got a great team. We spend millions a month on advertising. We do a lot. And it's like we're pathetic still. Like when you look at what we should be doing, like Pinterest, it's like, oh, I gotta be on Pinterest. We're not doing enough on TikTok, we're not doing enough on Google, we're not doing enough in retail. What about our dental partners? Med Spas International? Oh, China. You realize, because I remember before I was like, I like this, like I got really good at building zero to $10 million brand, like smaller brands. But then if you go all in on a brand, you realize you have no time because you're like, customer support, we need more customer support. What if we had live chat? There's. It hasn't not stopped. Like every day is a hundred new things to be doing and that's just with one brand. So. And I'm fortunate but also insane enough to run multiple brands. I never started more than one at once. I started within six months of each other, but I also didn't know they were going to take off so quickly. So now I've got, you know, a lot of stuff going on all at once. So I'm working three different six hour shifts. So you do the math. My brain's always going and I find the time to travel on planes constantly. But if you want it bad enough, you'll do it. And this is my big bang, right? This is my opportunity to earn the right to eventually invest in a lot of other entrepreneurs, to earn the right to write a book where I can speak from experience, to be able to mentor other people. I want to earn the right to do that because I wouldn't listen to someone who has not gone through the path themselves. So I want to be someone that I would listen to. In order to do that, you got to do what you got to do. It doesn't mean you have to build a brand. You can join brand, you can partner with a brand. You can not even a brand at all. It can be a B2B services company. You can make a billion dollars, a million dollars, billion ways. You know, I happen to choose the most difficult way because I chase difficulty. That's the only way I grow. And if I don't, if I wasn't doing this, I'd be depressed. I'd have 10 lambos and I'd be crying every night, so. And they always say it's better to cry inside of a Lamborghini. It's better not to cry at all. So for me, this gives me purpose. And I now realize I'm doing it for more than just myself. I'm doing it for my team. I'm doing it for our community of 500,000 people. I'm doing it to prove a point in the marketplace. I'm doing it as a trailblazer to show other young entrepreneurs, self made people how big they can make something. I'm doing this for other people. Just like graduating college was for my family. I never used my degree, but I did it because I wanted to say thank you to my parents, my dad who left Spain to come here. I wanted to do it so that I could tell my kids I did everything and I got my degree. Do I use it? No. You know, but I also was in and out in two years. So like, it was a unique circumstance. But today's world, to be a millionaire, you don't need a degree. But for me, I've always been about doing everything I can and then some because I don't want to, you know, sit my deathbed and say, I wish I would have done that. And in life, you have regrets or discipline. So the short term, you don't feel regret. It's easier to forego discipline, not go to the gym, eat another Twinkie, do drugs, party more. It's easier to do that. But then you end up with regret, which is probably the worst feeling on earth when you feel regret, when someone tells you, I'm disappointed in you, Jeff, like someone you care about or a mentor or your dad or anyone, like, I'm disappointed in you, that regret that you didn't do the right thing or you missed out on something that sucks. So if you're willing to extend, delay your gratification, it's hard to do when you're young. If you can delay that a few more years, you have to use discipline in between. And then you have less regrets. You're still gonna have regrets, but you have less regrets and you end up. I always said, like, I'm gonna give up this party because I want to go to a yacht party one day. Like, I'm gonna give up, you know, doing this because I want to do this in the future. If you're willing to do this instead of that long enough, you will get there and you just can't give up. I mean, I always say, first they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. I think it was like a Gandhi quote or something. But the trick is persistence. Persistence builds respect. It builds a brand and consistency. Show up, do the work, do it over and over and over again. Success naturally attracted those who don't give up. It's just, you know, not to say if you're doing something stupid and you do it for 50 years, like, you're so stupid, but, you know, if you feel like you're on to something. When I started the business, it was snow teeth whitening. It's like, oh, you got teeth whitening kit, that's cool. Like, all right, let's see how big this could be. You know, they thought it was a drop shipping store. We've never drop shipped and everything. But I get that entrepreneurs have to be willing to be under misunderstood for a long period of time. Another quote, I found some. But like, that's true. You got to be misunderstood for a long time. No one believes in what you're working on because you're the only one living in your brain and living in the future. And the future is always better than the present if you're an entrepreneur, if you're a good one. So you have to learn to be happy with your progress in the present. Otherwise you end up depressed, you feel burnt out. So for me, I wake up and I'm just like, let's hit it. Like, whatever it is, if it's like, oh, we gotta sue somebody, let's go. Like, everything I go into is like, I love it. That means I'm leveling up.

How do you manage your time on a daily basis? I know we're taking the time to do this podcast. You obviously have carved up this time and have your team working on things, but has it always been like it is now when it comes to time management?

I learned time management when I was like 15 or 16. I used, I downloaded or started using Google Calendar. Changed my life, changed my life. Go Calendar. I owe my whole life to. And Google in general. I own my life too, if I count YouTube. So for me, it's like, I'm going to get done what I really want to get done. That's why when people tell me like, oh, busy, I can't make it this and that. No, you're not. I run three or four, you know, massive companies. You know, I think you got the time. So for me, I try to, I try to audit my time as well. So I'll take a random day out of the month and just like audit. What did I do for this hour? What I do for this hour? Oh, I watch Netflix for three hours, and I'm complaining. Why? I'm stressed out because I didn't get something done. Oh, right. So then you start to hold yourself accountable. And then I try to always focus on production. So right now, what we're doing is we're producing. We're producing content that's going to live on for a very long time that could potentially impact even one life. 100 lives, a million lives. Who. Who knows? Who knows? 10 years from now, people dig through this and find the archives, right? And it's like, wait a second. Everyone now is going to dig in. Elon Musk, early days. What did he do back then? You know? So who knows who's going to pull this up 25 years from now, right? And so for me, I think about production instead of consumption. If I'm watching Netflix, I should be making a Netflix. If I'm, you know, whatever I'm doing, try to write more emails than I read emails. I try to do more. I try to post more than I watch on Instagram. I'm always posting. Once you get into the production mode, you realize that consumption is not as exciting anymore, because immediately you start to consume Shark Tank and you got a good idea and you pause and you go and work on something. Yeah, production is always more exciting than consumption if you do it long enough. That's why painters spend more time painting than at art galleries. You know, it's like, you got to spend more time. Chefs spend more time in the kitchen than at other restaurants. Like, you do your market research, but you want to be cooking, you want to be making, you want to be painting, you want to be coding. You know, that's what you want to do. And so for me, I try to say, am I spending at least half of my week on production versus consumption? Where am I consuming? Am I getting paid for that consumption? Or what way am I getting paid, or am I just lying to myself that I'm getting paid? Right? I'm like, oh, I'm on Instagram, but I'm doing research on ads. It's like, no, you're not. You're just, like, looking at whatever. So, like, I try to be really real with myself, and then I try to time block this hour. I'm gonna do this. These two hours I'm gonna watch Netflix. And when I do that, it's like, these two hours I'm watching Netflix, I'm literally cool with it. Like, tonight, I'm probably gonna watch a documentary. Like, I'm Excited for Friday night? Yeah, because I don't have to come in the office the next day. I've got time to catch up on emails, and I'm gonna enjoy it, right? I take those two hours, turn off my phone, and I sit there and. And watch the documentary. I get some snacks or I want to watch something crazy that has nothing to do with business and is a complete waste of time, but it makes you feel good. I don't care. I have a massage, hour and a half. That's what I'm going to do, and that's all I'm going to do. And you realize you've got 20 hours a day that you can do with what you want. And you realize if you time block, you can get a lot done. The next phase of that is having a good team because then you get to multiply yourself. So I would say time block and audit your time.

Love it.

Someone's gonna be listening to this interview in 10 years.

You said, where's snow gonna be in 10 years? You know, hopefully at least 10 times the size. Right? Size is important. I think that people underestimate what can be done in 10 years. That's why, like, you really have to think 10 years out. And I think that our. Our vision is always to be creating products to help people feel good about themselves. So hopefully we've got 20, 30, 40, 50 products that are, you know, hopefully top of their class, hopefully, you know, impacting millions of people's lives. We've impacted 500,000 lives. Multiply 10, we should have 5 million customers by then. You know, that means that, you know, the company is hopefully worth, you know, a lot of money. I don't know. I don't know. I. It's 10 years, 10 years, a long time. But it's also short time. Like, I. These last three or four years have flown by. I think after you turn, like, 18, like, time just disappears. And I used to, like, I used to hate when older people would tell me that. They'd be like, oh, you'll see, your 30s are just gonna fly by. I'm like, that's horrible. That's depressing. Not for me. I love life. But you realize, like, your head's down, you're doing stuff. I've traveled the world. I continue travel the world. You know, I've had 25 cars by now. Like, things just happen. It just happens so fast. So I think 10 years from now, the difference is you don't really start, like, living, living until you're like, 18 or out of college. So really, I'm only, I just turned nine years old. So for me, like I'm a nine year old. So for me, like I'm a baby, I'm probably making mistakes right now that I'm gonna look back a year, two years from now, 10 years from now, and say, what an idiot. That's just part of it. But I think 10 years from now, if there's an opportunity where we can partner with a, with a brand that makes sense and I'm able to help them continue the legacy of Snow and it makes sense to a buyout, maybe an IPO makes sense, I don't know. Otherwise I'm going to stick to my core, which is building products that are truly world class, that impact people's lives. Build a valuable business. If you do things that are correct in business, you have profit margin, good profits, good revenue growth, great reviews, great customers, great partners, retail partners, etc. You've built a sellable business so at any time you can sell it. And some of the best brands I look at, Clif Bar is a phenomenal business. They're privately owned. They built an incredible business. Clip bars everywhere. You can't find one person who hasn't had a Clif Bar kind. Bar is another one. Like, there's a lot of companies that, you know Sarah Blakely with Spanx, you know, billionaire, she still owns the company, but she could sell that thing at any moment. So I think the key is to build something like Spanx, to build something that is worth a decent amount of money so that at any point that I want to retire and I. Or I want to hire a CEO and maybe I don't sell the company or we want to ipo. The ultimate goal is if you build your company to ipo. That means everything else has to be done perfectly, like almost perfectly really well. So the best way I say is pretend like 10 years from now you're going to IPO and then go backwards from there. Are you treating your accounting correctly? Do you have a good lawyer? Do you treat your team members well? Are you creating really good products? Are you getting sued? Are you scamming people? What's going to happen when you ring that bell and all the truth comes out? Because when you go public, everything is out. Every financial, every number, how much you spend on coffee, every day. Every number is under scrutiny of the public because it's no longer your company, it's a public's company, and you're just a steward of that company. So if you plan to go public and reverse engineer from There, you'll stop screwing around, you'll stop doing things. You'll start thinking, how can I hire better people? How can I get a better lawyer? How can I get a better accountant? You know, would this look good if it was on the New York Times homepage? You know, it's like, you know, what is that headline going to look like? Is it going to say, you know, Jeff gets ousted as CEO for berating or degrading employees, which just happened to the away CEO, the suitcase company. Is it going to come out that, you know, whatever, right? Or is it going to say, you know, Jeff Bezos, a great CEO, right. And continues to drive the market value of that company. What is your headline going to be? New York Times reverse engineer from there. For me, I hope it's that, you know, this guy and his team took on, you know, a massive market and changed the way we thought about oral care. And we're in 5 million homes in one way or another. And people said, I never thought about oral care that way until I saw Josh's products and what his team was doing, doing. And my team members say, I learned the most in 10 years and I would have learned 50 years at any other company. And I owe my learnings to Snow. Not to me, but to Snow, which is our baby. And to see that baby grow up and be proud of that baby.

I love it. You guys got any more questions?

So I'll ask the same question that I just asked, but personally now. So we've talked a lot about Snow. What, what does 10, 20, 50, you know, you said you want to live like 60, 70 more years. What does that timeline look like for Josh?

I mean, one of the things that's been a passion of mine is investing in other entrepreneurs. I don't do any of it. Currently, I'm pretty much 100% focused on building my brands. Right. But the spillover is I'm also building my personal brand. So as that personal brand grows, I have amazing deal flow right now. So I see some amazing companies, you know, some 1 million, some 50 million, some 500 million come into my inbox that are, you know, looking for investment, they're looking for help, they're looking to grow. You'll be surprised. I've been a 500 million dollar company is like desperate for growth. Every company is desperate for growth and figuring out new markets. So I hope that, I hope that one day, you know, I can, you know, I can have, I can step back a little bit, not completely. I want to make sure that things are being Done. Well, I'm not a micromanager. I'm a macro manager, which I think makes me really easy to work with, but also means that I get taken advantage of easily. Like I macromanage. So I just hire great people, trust them, right? We haven't lost one person at snow since we started because it's about hiring the right person, giving them the keys to the truck and not telling them every step. Like, the last thing you want is dad telling you how to drive. Like, oh, what are you doing? Whoa, right? It's like, let me drive. Or, you know, let me drive. Like, just give me the, give me the keys. So I give my, all of my team members the keys. Everybody's treated equally here. But I hope that one day we've done a good enough job that I can step back a little bit and start to become even more involved in the community, most mostly in the entrepreneurship community. So being able to invest and advise lots of companies, you know, write books, you know, be able to sit on panels, be able to impact a lot of people. But I think from a business standpoint, I will then become, you know, hopefully a successful investor and a high profile investor in mainly direct to consumer companies, but all types of companies and just be able to take the experiences and all the learnings and the network I built by building snow and offer that up with some cash to other entrepreneurs who are at where I was at a year ago or two years ago or three years ago and say, I know exactly where you're at. Let me help you out, Let me bring my team. That's what I hope to do in retirement. I can never stop working, but I think I could do that for 40 years of my life.

I have a question kind of touching on that. So, like, from a personal perspective, right? Obviously financial goals are always important, but do you ever look at yourself and say, hey, like, one of my goals is to become a billionaire or how do you think about money that way?

Yeah, I mean, I used to, like, I used to think like, I was like, oh, you know, I want to be a millionaire. And then I was like, okay, I want to like be a 10 millionaire. It's like, I want to be a billionaire. And then what happened is that once I realized, once I started making over 200 to 500, 200, 500 thousand dollar a year range, you pretty much can eat whatever you want. You can pretty much, you know, do whatever you want. I mean, you're not flying private every day. You're not like, you don't have a full Time chef. You know, certain things like that. But in terms of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, foods, shelter, and security, you can live in a really good place, very secure, feel great. You can, you know, have a maid clean your house every week. You can, you know, eat nice steakhouse dinners. You can do a lot of stuff. You can fly first class, so you're making $500,000 a year. You do a lot of stuff beyond that. The cars get a little bit faster, the plane gets smaller, but more private. You know, the food doesn't get that much better. But maybe you get a chef in house, there's not much else that changes. So, you know, when you look at billionaires, they're not doing it because there's something of benefit for the money. They do it because they become obsessed about growth. They become. It's a game. It's a sport of business. We keep track by market cap. So it's how much is your company worth? And so the scoreboard is not how many games did you win, but how many battles have you won to build value in your company? So for me, I think about it in terms of numbers of customers. I think that's the easiest way for me to think about it. As soon as I started thinking about money, ego starts to creep in. And I've done all I can possible to make sure my ego stays in check. And the best way to do that is think about your market size, your market opportunity, and also think about the other side, which is giving money away. And you realize that Bill Gates is richest guy in the world. He still can't solve all the problems. And you realize he's giving away billions and billions of dollars, and he's scratched service. He's done more than a lot of people, if not everyone. But he's scratching the surface. And you're like, what? So when you look at, you will. You will be the always be poor in the nonprofit world, because there's never enough to give. So for me, it's like, how much can. How many customers can I impact? 50 million? Well, that means that maybe I've got a billion dollars by then, which means how then can I flip that around and impact 50 million? So if I've taken money from 50 million people, how can I then give it back to 50 million people? So the more customers I can have 1 billion customers, that means I get a chance, like Microsoft, to impact 1 billion people. So I'm constantly looking at both sides of the equation. But if I look at the center, which is simply the transfer of Money, we're simply loan. We're simply renting the money we have, like, the wealth we have. We're renting it because it gets passed down the generation. It gets passed down to other people. You give it away, you lose it in a lawsuit, you lose it in a divorce. You're simply holding on to the money. It's not yours. So what you do with it is more important. So for me, looking at the middle and saying, I want a billion dollars on this, for me, it's more exciting to look at this side because then I get options, and options are more important. Money gives you options. But I feel like I'd be much more proud to say, you know, I made 500,000 a year for the next 60 years of my life, ate whatever I wanted, did what I wanted. But I didn't have five Bugatti's, you know, I didn't have a Bugatti at all, right? But I got to rent one. I got to drive in one. My buddy's got one. Like, I'd rather do that for 50 years and say, snow is, you know, in 1 billion households. Like, I'd rather have that be the thing and that. That we have less than a 1% refund rate. Everyone loves the products, and they're like, hey, we love your products. I have that. Than be simply an unknown. Like, just have a billion dollars. I mean, the grand scheme of things, it'd be great because I can give that away. I can help people. But I also, like, I'm an entrepreneur. So, like, for me, what do I derive my worth from? I drive my worth from impact and size of my business. And because of the size of your business, if you run a good business, you end up becoming extremely wealthy. That's just part of it. But my sport is in how big my business is, the market cap of my company, how much money is in my pocket? That's a different game. That's an ego game. I'm not in the sport of ego. I'm in the sport of business, right? A little bit ego. Everyone's got ego, right? And mine spikes here and there, and I try to keep track of it. But sport of business is market cap. How much is your company worth? How much money are you making for your investors? How well are you doing for your customers? Play that business or play that game, and everything else is easy because you got a power platform to say, I am the founder of Snow. And they say, I love your products. Sir, come sit over here. Don't pay for your deal, your meal, it's like being a celebrity without the obligation to, you know, do something as a celebrity. But I. I feel like being a CEO is kind of the new rock star.

Absolutely. You guys got anything else?

I love it. No, I. I think. I think we. We touched on a lot of stuff.

We rocked it. My man Josh. Just want to say thank you so much for. It's funny. So we. We sat down once, but we never put it out. So I'm glad that we all rekindled today.

It's perfect. Yeah.

And really, really we're able to have this conversation. I know we went longer than anticipated, but I just want to say I appreciate you for taking the time out of your business schedule to black out this time to do this.

Like I said, we have no idea how many people are going to listen to. To this. And people who follow me know that a lot of times my podcasts run long, but I try not to just speak out of my ass. I try to really think of what can provide value for the end listener. And generally, people send and say, you know, this is the best podcast. I've heard things like that. And so that tells me that. Because I feel a little bit embarrassed sometimes if I take an hour on stage or something and I'm like, oh, I took up a lot of time. But then I think about it, it's like, I don't stand up there to talk, just to talk, you know, I mean, like, I got a business to run. I've got things to do. But I'm like, what if a thousand people listen to this and it hits 50 people and I get messages all day long. They're like, I listen to that podcast and I needed that. I was really on the edge of giving up on my life. And, like, just hearing that and seeing the similarities in our life gives me hope. And I feel like that, to me is like, that's a bigger purpose. I love it.

That being said, everyone listening, make sure you go follow. Where can they follow you on Instagram? I know Josh Snow. Osh Snow. And be prepared for some. Some of the most amazing memes on Instagram. If you follow Josh right now, it's funny because he'll be. He'll be posting about business and entrepreneurship, then the next thing is the hottest meme in the game, and it'll just make your day. So be prepared. But Josh. That being said, everyone make sure you follow josh and try snow.com. make sure you check it out. And that being said, I will talk to you guys soon.

Quickly, guys. All of Casey's fans. If you liked this setup with Jeffrey and I being here, let us know. Let Casey know DM him because we're thinking about maybe starting a podcast with all three of us like this. So this was like the pilot episode.

Or maybe us being on some more podcasts.

Yeah, I forgot to say too and thank you for Kieran and Jeff being here. This is the first time we've ever tested this. So let us know and let me know what you thought about this three person dynamic as like co host for the guest which was Josh today. So yeah, appreciate you bringing that up, Karen.

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