Justin Kan - Twitch Co-founder Explains Why Amazon Bought Twitch For $970 Million

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What is going on everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. Today we are joined by Justin Kan, the co founder of 20. Thanks so much for coming on, Justin.

What's up, Casey? How are you doing?

Good. Well, first off, as I said before, thank you so much for coming on today, man. You have quite the story and I'm excited to dive in, man. But something I saw you posting about recently was just this whole concept of NFTs and how you're minting your YouTube videos. And I'd love to just start with that because I think it's a fascinating topic to cover and something that I know that you just wrapped up here yesterday with all the bidding going on.

Sure. So I launched my YouTube channel about a month ago and I've been having a lot of fun with it, making videos, telling people behind the scenes stories of my companies and Twitch and going to have some how to's and stuff like that. And so people seem to like it, grown it to a very small fan base. Right now there's about 30,000 subs I think as of today when I checked this morning. Love it. And one thing that I noticed, my producer Jen and I noticed was that people were just really excited to be there early. And they were like, oh, I'm here first, 10,000 subs or whatever. And so we had this idea, we saw what was going on with NFTS and I was like, why don't we mint our YouTube videos as NFTs? People could collect and then maybe in the future the channel grows, we reach 10x or, you know, whatever. I don't know where we'll get to but like maybe it grows. And then those early adopters of our YouTube channel, you know, early followers can feel like they own a piece of it. And so that was the idea. It was kind of a random crazy idea we had 10 days ago or so and we decided, hey, let's just try it and so we launched these NFTs on OpenSea, you know, a couple for each video. There's some videos that are like one of ones and some videos that are. We issued 50 of and one that's one of 50 and one was one of 97. And then we sold through the mall. And so there's a bunch of people out there who own Justin Kahn certified Justin Kahn stories NFTs. And we're going to do an NFT shareholders call.

I love it. In one of those videos you talked about walking away from a billion dollars when you were selling Twitch. And I want to ask you, man, I know Twitch and the story that you told in that video. You guys had many pivots along that journey. But how did Twitch come to fruition for those that don't know? And where did the idea initially come from?

Yeah, so we had this company called Justin tv, which started off as me trying to broadcast my life to the Internet with a camera on my head. And this is back in 2007, before there was the iPhone, before there was social media like Instagram or Twitter. And so we, this was just an idea, crazy idea. And we launched it. We pivoted that site into a platform for anyone to broadcast any live video. So it was kind of like YouTube for live. And we ran that for a couple of years and at a certain point it, it grew to a pretty big site. We were like a top 250 website online. But it wasn't growing anymore. And so my co founder, Emmett and I, we have three cosr, three other co founders and myself. So Michael, Kyle and Emmett and myself, we were just brainstorming, like, what can we do? What kind of products can we build around video where this could keep growing and we could like, you know, keep going as a company. And so one of the Emmett one, you know, my co founder, Emmett came up with this idea for Twitch, which was Starcraft 2 had just come out and he was the only one who loved. He was the one who loved watching Starcraft and you know that people were streaming on our site a little bit and largely they were watching. He was watching videos on YouTube and other sites as well. And so he was like, we should aggregate all this content and make kind of like a platform for live video games. And to be honest, like the rest of us were kind of skeptical. I liked the idea. Everybody else was like a little bit skeptical. And we debated it and we just decided, let's incubate that as a project. We also incubated this other project called Socialcam which is kind of like, like live video, sorry, video mobile app. Kind of like TikTok, I guess.

Yeah.

And we debated, you know, we said, we'll work on both these projects because we couldn't decide which one to do, and incubated them both internally. And then eventually Twitch kind of emerged as the winner. That was really growing and that's how we really got started dealing with Twitch.

What year was that when the initial creation of Twitch was born?

Yeah, we started thinking, thinking about it at the end of 2010. So I guess it was like 11 years ago now, or like 10 years. Basically 10 years ago, because we really launched a project in 2011. So 10 years ago we were. I can't believe it's been that long. But that's when we started working on it. And you know, obviously it kind of exceeded our expectations even 10 years ago in terms of growth. And then by the, you know, a year or two was like, kind of like its own.

Totally.

Yeah.

And looking back, I know you guys sold for just under a billion dollars. Like, looking back, what does that mean to you? What is the significance of the acquisition? And when that day happened, where were you, how did you feel? And what was your life moving forward?

Yeah, so it was a, you know, was a moment where we. It was almost like an affirmation, right? Like, it was like we had worked so hard and our mentor Paul Graham, who's the founder of Y Combinator, had invested in us. And he had always said the whole idea was like, you just build this company and then someone will come buy it if you really work hard on figuring out what users want. And so it's kind of like that was the dream, right? And we had done that over eight years. We had made it happen. We sold in 2014. We started the company 2006. Em and I had started another company in 2005. So it was really like a nine year journey of starting companies. And this was like, wow, we've made it. You know, we're like Internet legends now. We're like, we're like minted as like, you know, we're the establishment in some way, you know, and so I felt, it felt good, but. And I remember the moment. There were a couple moments I remember from this acquisition process that were like really highlight moments. Right? Like, one was Emmett calling me and telling me that, you know, Google had offered 900 or $850 million in consideration at $150 million in retention to buy the company. And I remember falling on my knees, like laughing. I was just like, that is insane. I was just laughing my. And obviously walked away from that deal. But then there was when we closed the deal with Amazon, I was at Burning man, and I didn't have any cell phone service. It had rained the night before. I'm sleeping in a construction foam yurt, like an insulation foam yurt that I made myself, and it leaked. So I woke up in a pool of water, and I spent the whole day trying to dry my shit off and then figure out how I could text someone from the outside world to see if we actually close our deal. And I finally did. And then that was the moment I learned. And then there was this. Lastly, there was this moment in we actually got the money, because when you close the deal, you don't actually get the money yet. And we were at our other co founder Kyle's wedding in a castle in Italy, and I'm refreshing my bank of America mobile app, and there's no cell phone service, so it's like, it's just spinning or whatever. And I just keep trying to refresh it, and finally it pops up and it's like, boom. And there's just more money than I ever thought you could fit in bank of America. And that was, like, kind of mind blowing at that moment.

Wow.

But, you know, the thing in terms of how it changed your life, you know, obviously, like, there's a lot of great things. Financial stability and not having to worry about, you know, a paycheck or even, like, as an entrepreneur, you're always worried about your company, like, what happens if it fails or whatever. It was kind of like putting one in the bank. Right. So you're like, you know, I got it, and that was great. But then the funny thing was, like, all the problems that I thought. I thought it would solve, like, all my life's problems, I'd just be set. And I still have, like, all the problems of, like, that I had before, like, anxiety or comparing myself to other people or wondering if we went far enough or if I was successful enough. And it was weird to me that, like, none of those things went away. They just adjusted for my new circumstances. And, you know, that was one of the things that I kind of learned about success is like, it's nice for a moment, you know, but it doesn't. The happiness that you get from it doesn't last.

Yeah. That's so powerful, man. And I see now you have so many different things you're starting. I know that you just launched your podcast, the Quest, and. And you talk about purpose, and you're interviewing founders, why did you decide to start a podcast? And what does that mean to you?

Yeah, so, you know, once I went through this process of having a successful company, I spent a lot of years continuing to work in tech and as an investor and an entrepreneur. And finally I realized, you know, oh, wait, maybe happiness isn't driven from the external. Right? The extrinsic. Maybe it's like if I have a company that's I had a company that's a billion, maybe if I have another one that's 10 billion, I'm not going to be 10 times as happy. And like, I didn't. It may sound stupid, but I did not realize that for the longest time. Finally when I realized that, I was like, okay, what's my intrinsic joy? Like, what are the things that like, when I do them, I just love to do them, even if nobody watches it, even if it doesn't make any money. And one of those things I really love is to connect with other people. I've always wanted to connect with people ever since I was a kid. Like, I was always like a shy extrovert. So I wanted to know, how do I talk to people, how do I, like, be friends with people? How do I really feel like I'm connected with them? And I didn't know that like when I was a kid. And that's part of what drove me to be an entrepreneur and be successful is like, oh, if I'm successful, then I will attract people to me. Right? There's this idea. And so I ended up deciding, okay, I'm only do things where I have intrinsic motivation to do them. And because I had this intrinsic motivation to connect, I decided to start this podcast because it was a way, you know, to have an hour long or two hour long conversation with a friend of mine which really dives into who they are as a person and like, what their motivations are. And you know, for me that was something that was, you know, I've always, like, when else do you have that excuse to do that, to spend that time doing it?

Yeah.

And so that's why I launched the podcast. And I really want to tell the stories of people who have been through successful, but they've been through those ups and downs. Because a lot of times on the outside you just think, you know that story, that guy's a straight shot to the top. You know, he's obviously successful, he doesn't have any problems anymore. Or he didn't have any problems when he was like when it back then. And you know, I've someone who's seen a lot of my friends become successful, I realized, like, that's not the case. Like, everyone's fighting war on the inside, and so how can I showcase the stories so that people who are maybe just starting off, they like, know what it's really like, you know, not a straight shot to the top.

Yeah. And I'm loving the podcast, by the way, man. Like the way you bring out these stories, Incredible. And for everyone that hasn't listened to it yet, I'll make sure to link it down below. But I want to bring it back to Justin tv. Like, what was your life before all these business endeavors? Where did you come from? What was your upbringing like? How do I. Were you shaped to then go start these technology companies or be interested in tech at all?

Well, I think there's a couple things. So. I've always been a catalyzer of people. You know, I'm somebody who, when I have an idea, I just can't stop talking about it. I'm a natural evangelist. You know, something I'm into whatever I'm into. I'm always talking about that thing and it switches a lot, you know, which is good and bad. Right. So I think that was something that was always the case since I was a kid. My mom's that type of way, you know, and so that was one of the probably core skill sets that got me when I'm. But, you know, by the time I was in college, one of my friends was interested in starting company and he was kind of pitching me on this idea to start something. And that's, you know, I was like, okay, let's do it. I was really excited about it. And then I ended up recruiting our other co founder, Emmett, who obviously became my co founder of Twitch and is the CEO today. And so that was like, really, you know, that's where it came from. And we. That's how we. That's how it kind of got. I got my start as an entrepreneur and, you know, maybe my. I think that's my superpower really, is that ability to catalyze people more than anything else.

What's your thoughts on, like, you know, once an acquisition occurs, the way Amazon has nurtured your baby, like, how do you look at that as a founder prior or after the acquisition took place? Now looking at Twitch?

Well, I mean, obviously I think it's done incredibly well. Like, people will argue, I think they'll say, like, I hear a lot of comments whenever I post something about Twitch. There's always comments. It's like Amazon, you know, Amazon screwed it up. It should be doing this, it should be doing that. But like, I actually think that Amazon has been a really amazing steward of it. And you know, Emmett, my co founder, runs it still, so that's no surprise, right? He's. But he's gotten a lot of resources to really build it into something. The thing that is today, which is, you know, this huge global platform.

Absolutely. How do you, how are you looking at like personally, like the future of esports and you guys are pioneers, really help gamers and esports athletes really capitalize on their skill set. Like, how do you look at it? Even though that you guys went through the acquisition, like, what's your thoughts on the future of esports and where is it going?

Well, I mean, I think it'll continue to grow and just be like this part of the culture. Right. Like it's, it's so big now. You know, you have Faze Clan, that's like, that's just, that's a whole movement. Not just. Yeah, it's not just. When we were starting off 10 years ago, you know, people had following us online, but they were, it was not kind of in the mainstream. And I think now, you know, I was, I was like playing, I was like, I follow like Taylor Fritz on Instagram, right. And it's like he's playing video games, right? Like it's just like normal people like you are like legit celebrities or athletes or whatever, like game and stream it and it's just something that's become so, so normalized and I think that's pretty cool to watch. Like there's so many times when I'm like surfing the Internet and I see come across someone, someone, you know, influencer, actor, celebrity, whatever, and they like have a twitch stream and just fucking blows my mind totally.

And I'm sure you've run across that so much even to this day, right. I want to talk about investing. I know you're an active investor yourself. What do you look for when you're looking at deals? What companies are exciting to you nowadays? And what industries do you think are emerging that like I said, excite you?

Yeah. So I have a fund called Go Capital. It's a $50 million seed fund. So we invest in early stage companies and really look for, I mean there's a couple of areas we look for. So we're interested in digital healthcare. So like the innovations in kind of the healthcare industry. We're interested in the creator economy because I have my backgrounds there, interested in new forms of digital commerce. And E commerce, climate change, obviously that's a huge problem for the world right now. And I think there's very amazing entrepreneurs tackling it and robotics and automation. So there's a couple areas in there and really what we look for is the founder with Twitch is a great example. Paul Graham funded Emmett and I. He didn't know we were going to create Twitch. He just knew that we were smart guys who are dedicated to building something. And so that's what I think about is like, who are these founders, what's their drive, are they creative? Are there people who run through walls? And the only way you really get to know that is by spending time with people.

Totally. How many deals are you guys looking at actively?

Well, we just started the fund like six months ago, so you know, incredible subject to change. Probably invested in 10 companies so far have maybe like five or six deals under consideration. So, you know, we're pretty active I guess.

That's awesome, man. I'm curious, when it comes to your day to day with everything you have going on, like how do you value your time? Right. When you talk about financial security and you built this billion dollar organization, sold it, now you have time to really spend it where you want. Like what is a perfect day look like to you and where do you tend to spend your time?

Yeah, so for me, I try to find only the things that really give me intrinsic joy to do. So like would I do it if I didn't make any money, if nobody watched it? So I spent a lot of time, I spent almost all my time working on those things. So that looks like advising and investing, investing and advising companies. I love to learn about new businesses. That's fun for me and I love to help founders because so many people help me, but also just like it feels like it's flexing my muscles that I develop in learning about startups. And so that's one way area that I spend a lot of time and then spend a lot of time creating content because I just love making content. I'm making YouTube videos and videos on TikTok and the podcast and it's not really like a money making endeavor, you know, I don't think it's like, you know, make money or anything like that. I think it's just, it's. I love spreading, you know, kind of sharing knowledge on online and figuring out ways like I can make it entertaining and fun for the audience, you know, so those are some of the, some of the things that I spend most of my time doing every day, you know, and it doesn't feel like work and then outside of that I'm spending time with family and friends and that's, that's basically it.

Yeah, totally, man. And going back to like the nft, this whole space, it's been fascinating to see like what you've done with the certified Justin CATTON Stories on OpenSea. Is this something like talking to, as a creator, would you recommend like creators getting into this space of NFTs and minting their videos? Because I was on, you know, just opensea, looking around the other day when I found yours, after we talked and we set up the podcast, it just blew my mind about how you're thinking about it, the intrinsic value of minting these videos. And I'd love to dive deeper in that. Obviously NFTs are blowing up right now, and we spoke about this briefly at the beginning, but where do you see the future of NFTs for content creators specifically? Would you recommend it and what should they look out for? How would you think they should go about it?

Yeah, so. So I think it's a little early to know whether I recommend it or not. Right. It started off as like it's an experiment. I think that there's one thing that's true and was going to remain. NFTs might be like at a kind of at a high point, right? Like a high water mark. Like crypto has gone in these waves. You know, there's one in 2013, one 2017 where there's like they just, it blows up and then you know, there's a kind of crash as maybe interest in it fades. But then they always renormalize like kind of higher. Right? So I think NFTs, we may be in this like overhyped bubble, who knows. But the interesting thing to me is more that the creator economy is like here Obviously, you know, 10 billion YouTube's paying like what, 10 or $15 billion a year or something like that to creators. And so the creator economy is like for sure this massive thing. And people and audience, fans, they're looking for more ways to connect and feel like connected to creators. And So I think NFTs are one interesting angle where it's like, okay, you can buy something that's unique of this creator, you know, that these creators created. And that's a way to connect, right? And it's a way to feel like part of it, A way to invest maybe, like, yeah, but invest in quotes. Because it's not, you know, you're not investing anything really, but you're, you know, it's A way that, you know, maybe you can own something that some part of the creator. And I think that impetus is not going to go away. So whether it's NFTs or, you know, all these other forms of, like, Patreon is an example of that. Or like buying merch, obviously that's like, work really well, like, participating in all these, like, fan clubs. Like, all this stuff is, like, related. And I think there's going to be more and more innovation in that area.

Absolutely. Because, like, for me, I've been thinking a lot about, like, how can I, as a podcaster be minting certain interviews or clips or powerful statements from them? And you were definitely that inspiration. It just got my mind thinking about that. What's your overall thoughts on cryptocurrency? Have you played a role in it? How do you see it in the future and where do you see it going?

I mean, I wouldn't say I've played a role in it. I think I've been more of like a passive holder. You know, I'm an investor in some crypto funds and a holder of some crypto, but I wouldn't say that. I know. I think it's like it's here to say institutions have invested, you know, it's a thing. But I don't know what. I don't really know what the future looks like for it, you know?

Yeah, for sure. I know you talk a lot about just product market fit on one of the stories you talked about. You know, when you guys were launching Twitch, you were spending a lot of time with customers and asking them questions. What's your advice to founders that are trying to figure out product market fit and then are launching their first product? Like, what are some of the hardships that you guys went through and recommendations you have for people that are in that phase?

Well, it can be so hard, right? Because you can't guarantee finding product market fit. It's not a function of, like, how hard you work. Oftentimes it's just random in terms of are you coming up with the right ideas to the right audience at the right time. And so it's really a function of testing things. I guess there is a component of the more you can work to create tests, the better and really talking to your customers and understanding what their needs are and feedback from them. And so one of the things that we did poorly in the beginning, but then really went right with Twitch was create the shortest possible feedback cycle with our customers. And so Emmett went out there with Kevin, one of our early team members. Who became a co founder of Twitch. They went out there and talked to all the customers and figured out what do streamers want to broadcast on the site. And I mean, it seems so obvious in retrospect, but that's something we never did for Justin TV for our live video site. And so I think really just creating that channel with your customer, your early proposed customer, and figuring out how to, how to really get feedback from them is like the most important thing. Seems simple, but there's no hacks. That's. That's the one thing you can do.

Yep. What was one of the biggest challenges from scaling a tech product? I'm a part of a tech product myself called mediakids.com and we're always thinking about this when it comes to, when scaling, what should we look out for, how should we think about it? And I want to ask you, like, what would you recommend to early founders that are going to. Through a growth curve when it comes to scaling?

Yeah, so get some mentors who have done it before. Was one definitely. Like people in Silicon Valley. There's a lot of people who have scaled before. They're very helpful. I think talking to people about who have done it before is like, really helpful. And so that's one thing I'd say. Every problem always breaks down into like, there's probably like seven different types of ways that computer systems break in terms of scaling. You know, like for us it was like, oh, you run out of bandwidth, you run out of disk space, you run out of cpu. Like there's, you know, and we just troubleshoot, like every, like the site would break all the time and we would just kind of go down that checklist and try to figure out which one it was and then figure out what is the solution for, for that. You know, how do we fix that problem in this case? Yeah, that was, that was our process. It was very simple.

But what were some of the key formulas to growth when it comes to culture and the team itself, how did you guys maintain culture when building Twitch?

Well, I think with Twitch it was a little bit easier than many companies because in a way, you know, you have the audience of people who are very passionate that want to work there. So there's like, there was kind of like a built in, almost like cult. I think with, with other companies, the way I've thought about it is, you know, you have the opportunity to really create the culture that you want and you should figure out what kind of company do you want to work in as a founder. And I think a lot of founders aren't intentional enough about that. There's this book I really Love called the 15 commitments of conscious Leadership, which describes what they call a conscious company, which has, you know, 15 kind of principles, but the three main ones are, you know, taking 100% responsibility for the situation you're in, approaching things with a curious and open mindset, and bringing your whole emotional self to work. And I really love that when I book, when I read it, and that's kind of the, the model that I try to implement at companies that I start.

I love it. When you think about your future as a founder, obviously you're investing in a lot of different brands. Do you see yourself building another billion dollar company and being a part of it from the ground roots, or is it more so something you see as an investor? How do you see your future moving forward as a founder?

Yeah, so I love investing and I think the founding is for the young who are ready, willing to put in the time and energy and pour their whole heart and soul into it. And for me, I realized I love learning about new ideas, I love supporting people. I'm maybe a better coach than I am an athlete now, so I think I'm going to be on the investing role. But we have a lot of companies that we want to help incubate, so we're working on a couple ideas. But in terms of being the CEO founder myself, it's probably not the cards for me right now.

Yeah, no, totally. I love that. I wanted to bring up a story on the Justin Kahn stories. You talked about getting arrested with the Reddit CEO. Let's talk about that. I'd love to hear it from your perspective here on the podcast. What was that moment for you?

Oh, yeah. So when the early days, in the early Justin TV days, I was, you know, we had this camera prototype camera to stream to the Internet and there's like no iPhone at the time. Right. So there's, there's like. It was. Bandwidth on cell phones was like very limited. So we had to build all this technology, like multiple cell phone data moment modems. And we sent the video across like all these things and you know, different modems. And then we reassembled it on the other side. And it was a pretty complex piece of technology that our co founder Kyle built. And so we decided to go out one night and test it. And back then I drank way too much. I don't drink anymore. So it's probably a lesson learned. But we got pretty drunk and decided, let's go out into San Francisco and Test drive our equipment. And so I went to this bar. Long story short, I got into a dispute with the bartender. Not me, my friend Steve Hoffman, the co founder of Reddit and the current CEO of Reddit. And he was wearing the camera and the bartender was telling him to take it off. Basically didn't want to do it. So long story short, you know, he goes outside, the police are there, and he ends up getting arrested with our prototype camera, like, attached in a backpack. So he's in a hat, right? So he's getting arrested, and I'm like, holy shit, that's the only prototype I have. So I'm like, that's bullshit. If you're arresting him, you should be arresting me. And the cops were just like, these guys are filling up our quota for free tonight. You know, drunk tank quota. So they. They handcuffed me and they took us both to the.

Oh, my gosh.

And, you know, I guess I could pretend I have this altruistic motive to save the camera, but I, like, definitely was, you know, it wasn't maybe purely altruistic. I was just like a drunken idiot. Anyways, the funny thing was, at the end of the night, it turns out, like, one of our friends had been watching the website, like, as a beta test, because we sent an email out to our friends, and he calls Emmett, my co founder, and says, like, hey, did Justin just get arrested? And it was amazing because we were like, wow, that it worked. Like, the whole thing, the, like, streaming live video to the Internet and something interesting happened. Hold. The whole thing worked.

Yeah.

And so that's. That was like the first broadcast of Justin TV.

That's incredible, man. And Justin TV, like, for me, right, I'm 20 years old, I grew up with this whole technology and, you know, the vlogging world, like, you literally would walk around with the camera in your head before anyone was doing it and before it was even a thing. Like, when you guys started doing this, what were some of the early reactions that you were getting from people watching you or that you would come in contact with?

Yeah, so people were like, mind blown, right? Cause, like, now I feel like there's more people who are trying to be professional content creators and they're like making content on the Internet and there's like, people are live streaming. And so if someone walked into a store and they're like, filming or something like that, you know, people would be like, okay, he's probably making a YouTube or whatever.

Yeah.

And like, but at the time, this was like 2007, just people were like, why would you ever want to do that? You know? And. Yeah, and so it was kind of like this freak show phenomenon where, you know, I went on the Today show and Ann Curry was like, what do your parents think about you? Like, yeah, so there was. There definitely was a bit of that, but it was cool. Like, we got. I got recognized from the profile of this camera on the street. And, you know, it really filled the ego part of me that was like, oh, I want to be like, you know, someone who's like a famous person or something was like really activated at that, at that moment.

I want to touch on, just throughout your journey as an entrepreneur, like, what is truly fulfilling to you today? Because, you know, a lot of people, they think it's the success, they think it's the journey, but what is the definition of success to you and why?

Yeah, so that's a great question. Something I've thought a lot about. You know, it's changed over time before. In the early days with just TV and Twitch, it was like, I'm putting myself at the center of the world. I'm like, oh, I just want to be more successful. I have a billion dollar company, you know, company this big or this many Twitter followers or whatever it was. And, you know, since then I realized when I spent time thinking, like, what am I really fulfilled by? Like, what are the things that I'm proudest of in my career? It's always been like, helping the people around me. So, you know, helping. I helped start this pharmacy company called Alta, where, you know, the founders worked out of my house for the first, you know, three months of the company's existence and helped to buy pharmacy and kind of raise the money. And, you know, the company today is, you know, we raised $350 million and have tens of thousands of patients. It's a 800 something person company. And so that's like an example of somewhere. I'm like, actually more proud of that than like starting my companies or whatever. It's like, I help these. There's a lot of people out there who would say, maybe not a lot. Maybe there's some people out there who would say, you know, like, thanks for, you know, Justin helped me out at critical time. And, like, I'm really appreciative of that. And so I think that's the thing that that's really meaningful to me in my career. And then for me, when I evaluate my life, I'm like, was I connected to the people around me? My good friend, my good father, husband, brother? You know, like, did I was I there for people who were. Who needed me. And that's it. That's. That's what I think about.

I love it. So before we wrap up here, just last thing is, if you were to give yourself or a young founder today advice when starting a company, what would that be and why?

Yeah, so the advice I usually give has been like, just get started, right? Because it's oftentimes people, they don't start early enough. They overthink it. They're like thinking like, oh, I'm like, I have to, you know, I want to get to this level before I quit my job, or is this a good enough idea? Or whatever it is. And I think that it's so easy to make a business and just get momentum. Like, human beings are momentum animals. And so for me, it's like, if you get started and you start seeing progress, you're going to feel the momentum and then you're going to start, you know, want to continue. If you, like, are stationary and you're not doing anything, you're going to feel that momentum and it's going to be hard to, like, actually get started. So for me, I'm so glad. Even though my first startup didn't really work out, I'm really glad that we got started because it gave us the impetus to eventually create something which is Twitch. And so that's one thing. The advice that I give now also is like, you should work on something you give a shit about. Like, you should work on something where you have intrinsic motivation. Because if you don't, like, if you're just working on something to make money, like, you're going to give up when things get hard.

Totally. I love that. Well, Justin, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today. Where is the best place for everyone to watch the YouTube content and still in tune with everything you have going on with the podcast and all the content you're creating?

Yeah. So my channel on YouTube is Justin Khan vlog and my Twitter is ustincon. Same on Instagram, TikTok. So follow me in all those. In all those places.

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