Kara Goldin - Founder of Hint Water Speaks on Becoming The Unofficial Drink of Silicon Valley

All right, welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Kara golden, the founder of hint. Thank you so much for coming to the show, Kara.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. So I'm so fascinated with your story. And of course, we have the Hint water with us here today. And I've been a fan of the product for a very long time. But this journey for you started back in 2004, 2005. Where did this drive for like entrepreneurship and starting hint in the first place begin? And where did that, you know, that seed get planted in the early days of your career?

Well, it's funny, I mean, I never called myself an entrepreneur, an entre, a wannabe entrepreneur, entrepreneur in the making, but I happen to have worked for a few different entrepreneurs when I was first starting out. And the first one, actually my second job out of college was at cnn. You and I were just talking about. I never got a chance to interview Larry King, but I definitely was able to go to the show and see him in, you know, in his glory for sure. But I, you know, watching Ted Turner and I always tell people that the, you know, when a founder is still a part of an organization, you just feel it. It's the soul of the company. And it's, we used to joke that like, you knew Ted was in the building, even if you, he generally was in Atlanta, but he came to New York a lot where I was working. And, and you know, it's funny because it's, it's really true. You knew that, you know, he was getting out of the elevator. Like you could hear them. You could, you know, know that like there were jokes being made. There was just this jovial sense and of that was going on that was really, really incredible. So, so anyway, that was my first and then I moved out to San Francisco where I ended up again stumbling on to a startup that was doing early Internet, what is now known as like early days of direct to consumer. That was a Steve Job. And I had known who Steve Jobs was. I had, was actually fortunate enough in college to have a Mac and, you know, was really excited about that, but didn't really know that much about CD ROMs and didn't know about electronic shopping, as we used to call it. And so again, it was the idea of, you know, seeing these people in action and knowing that something could be possible if you really focused and you, you know, like, had an idea, had a vision for something and, and moved forward. And, and then finally the, the last entrepreneur that I worked for was a guy named Steve Case. Who was the founder of America Online and he acquired our company and our company was called to market. And so again, like having worked for three different entrepreneurs and sort of founder led organizations, I think I probably got a little bit of confidence to know that, you know, it's not easy. Not every day is going to be filled with, you know, successes and, you know, and like, probably more failures than successes. But what I realized is that to many people, they may have seemed like larger than life and godlike, but they were just Ted, Steve and Steve. Right. Like getting off the elevator and giving it a try and knowing that you could go from a smaller number to a bigger number over time.

Yeah, that's incredible. The perspective of seeing that in different organizations. I'm sure, obviously, as you're saying, you learned so much from those experiences growing up. Did you grow up in a place where, like the entrepreneurial spirit was alive or in an entrepreneurial family or what did that look like?

So I was the last of five kids and I always think about my dad as a frustrated entrepreneur because he wasn't an entrepreneur in the sense of he didn't start a company, but he started a product inside of a large company. So they called it, you know, product development inside of a company called Armor Food Company developed a product that is still alive today called Healthy Choice. It was acquired actually by, or I should say Armor Food Company was acquired by conagra. And so, you know, I, I was able to kind of not only watch him think about an idea and have a strategy for an idea of how actually get it to market, but also the big realization between launching a product inside of a large company and launching a product without a large company behind you, where you have to do things like raise capital and form a very large team and, you know, buy the coffee and things like that are critical, right? To any successful startup.

Absolutely. No, that's incredible to hear too. Just. And the differences and then, you know, taking those into your own experiences. So after these experiences of working for these different entrepreneurs, I know when it comes to like this idea for Hint, you wanted to find a different alternative to, you know, the Diet Coke you were drinking. Like, where did the initial idea for hint come about? And then when did you start taking it serious to go pursue and to launch the company, to launch the product.

So, you know, it really started, I guess, with my kids and, and sort of watching my kids and watching my patterns of like feeding my kids and knowing that I had to have, I really wanted to, to give them products that were healthier and Better for them. And I started with food, but then I started looking at all sugar that they were getting from their apple juice. And I used to, you know, fill up with apple juice, the sippy cups. And when I tried to cut it with water, I found that they. They were on to, you know, the trick, like they weren't going to have watered down apple juice. And I thought, gosh, somebody just has to create a product that has water with the taste of apple juice or something else, and then that will actually solve this problem. I had no idea what I was talking about or that I was thinking of, like the early days of hint. But that's when I really looked at my own pattern of what I was drinking. And I was drinking a ton of diet Coke, thinking that I was doing just fine. But then when I realized how many sweeteners, it wasn't sugar, it was, you know, the diet version of. Of diet, or excuse me, the diet version of Coke that had these diet sweeteners in it. I thought, you know, that's probably not that great for me either, because I'm sitting here craving sweet all day long. After I finish one diet soda, then I want another something, whether it's diet soda or some sort of sugar. So while I was kind of formulating something for my kids, I was also formulating something for myself because I thought, if I am telling my kids to not be having so much sweet, why am I okay with having so much sweet? Like, I feel like a hypocrite, right? And so that's when I started, you know, really developing it, something that I could have and my kids could have in my kitchen just by slicing up fruit. And slicing up fruit was great. I'd fill up pitchers of water and put some fruit in it. And I'm like, this is exactly what I'm talking about. But it was a hassle because it didn't last very long. The shelf life, right, was not as long. It would go bad in the refrigerator. So I was buying an enormous amount of fruit, and it wasn't readily available. I had to stop and slice up the fruit. And while that's not impossible, you know, I'd be out of fruit, and then I would find myself, you know, figuring out what else could I drink. Okay, maybe I want to go back and drink a diet Coke, or maybe I'm going to grab that apple juice instead for my kids. And so I thought, there has to be a product like this that is in, you know, a bottle or some sort of container that people can buy it in the store. And I really did believe that there was. I, like, I thought there has to be a product like this. I just haven't seen it because I didn't really go down the beverage aisle anymore. I knew exactly what I wanted when I went into the store, and I just wasn't looking around. And so that's when I decided, I'm going to go find it. And I looked everywhere. I not only looked on the west coast, where I live, also on the east coast, every time I was traveling for a little over a year. And that's when I realized it wasn't out there. And I thought, you know what? I'm going to do this. I'm going to go and develop this product and see what happens. And so I did.

Wow, that's so incredible. And just for the audience as well. So this was 2004, 2005, around this time. Right. And, you know, for, for context, and I told you this earlier, but I'm 22 and in the year 2023, you know, I live in LA. You go to an airline and there's an abundance of CPG products, beverages. And just sometimes it's hard to pick because you just, you want to try everything. Like take us back to 2004, 2005, when it comes to like, CPG products, the beverage industry, like, where was it, in your opinion, back then? And like, bring us back to that time when it comes to the shelves and just how it was thought about versus, you know, today when you go into some aisles and there's just an abundance of different products that are in, you know, similar categories. I'd love to hear your perspective on that.

Yeah, well, it, you know, it's interesting because the, the beverage of the hour, I like to think of it as was. Was Vitamin Water. And they didn't even have a diet version of vitamin water in 2004. It was like four full sugar. Right? Vitamin Water. And it's, it's interesting because I remember going to my local supermarket looking for this product and talked to the guy that was stocking the shelves and he said, you know, what are you looking for? And I explained to him and, and he said, oh, I bet you'd love this product, Vitamin Water. And so when I flipped the product around and looked at the ingredients label, that's when I found myself educating him on Vitamin Water. And, you know, at that time, it had more sugar in it and more calories than a can of Coke. And I thought, wow, like, this is amazing. I mean, I never really looked at it that closely until Until I was educating somebody about this. And that's when he said, gosh, you know, your product that you're talking about sounds amazing. I mean, I would say Vitamin Water is like the closest thing to it, but obviously it's not it.

Yeah.

And he said, you, you should go develop a product like this. But again, like, I didn't know what I didn't know, right. Like, I mean, I laugh now today and think if, if I would have known. Sometimes if you think too far about the end, you'll never get past the beginning, Right. Like, you're, you know, you'll freak yourself out if you think too much about it. And I just thought, it's going to be fun, right? It's going to be really fun to just go and launch something that is brand new, that nobody's doing. You know, I, I always say to, to new entrepreneurs or people who have got an idea, like, you know, it's. Ideas are a dime a dozen. The execution is really what's going to separate you from the rest. And you know, to be honest with you, like, actually having competition is a pretty good thing, right? Especially if you think that you can compete and you can do better. Because when you're the only one that's actually doing something and you're, in our case, launching an entirely new category, the comments back from, I call them the gatekeepers, the buyers at the grocery stores who were saying, hey, we'll take a meeting with you. Yeah, this tastes pretty good. Everything, you know, seems terrific. Unfortunately, we have no category set up for your product because you don't have sugar in it. So you're not really Vitamin Water. So it just doesn't fit into the planogram. And if this was such an amazing category and such a great idea, why isn't Coke and Pepsi doing it? And so, you know, it was like a nice way of saying no to us. So that was the time. That was, that was really 2005 time for us.

I mean, that's like you. What was, what would go through your head when you would hear someone like a buyer say that, right? Like speaking to the, the entrepreneurial spirit and having belief in your idea. Like, was there doubt when thinking about starting this new category of a beverage? And how did you work your way through that as, you know, as a solo founder to begin with before getting the product out there?

Well, it's interesting. I did, I have doubt. I didn't really have doubt as much as I was frustrated, right. Like, I was frustrated with the situation because I just got it, like I had seen it firsthand. And then I also had people saying to me, like friends of mine, people who, you know, kids would come over to our house to have play dates with my kids and you know, they'd be saying, hey, can we have some of, you know, the Golden's Water? You know, they would, they would. So I knew that there was a market for it, but the, and, and again, like direct to consumer was just not really happening, especially not in grocery at the time. So I think if the product would have launched, you know, today, I think that going, you don't need to have the okay of a buyer that says there's no category for it. If you have the ability to do great SEO and you know, and be able to launch it online, it in a great way, then, then I think that, you know, that's less of a gatekeeper. But for us, you know, it was that those were the issues that we were really running into. But no, I mean, I really just thought like, how do I get past these people that just don't get it right? And, and so, and you know, I also had enlisted my husband who, you know, doesn't always go by co founder, but he was here since the beginning and he was our chief operating officer and, you know, really understood what I was talking about. So he was like, look, you know, it's frustrating. What are you going to do about it? I mean, you just have to just keep going or don't, right? Like, I mean that's, those are the choices. And if you really believe in doing something, I mean, you've had situations where you've gotten past really hard challenges before. Whether it was, you know, at CNN or, you know, launching direct to consumer or America Online. I'd seen it in different industries, so I, I guess I just had to be reminded. And then I also knew that those dark days, you know, would get better if I could find, you know, some light, right? That if I could really figure out, like, how do I get through to these people? And I think ultimately the way that really broke through, you know, the message really broke through because again, I was like, you know, pulling my hair out, trying to, I was going to every single buyer. I was calling my dad and saying, hey, like, you've gotten your product into Safeway. How do I make it happen, happen? And that was another thing, like when you have a large company behind you that pays huge slotting dollars. He like had to negotiate internally. He, he wasn't negotiating with Safeway. They were like, oh, sure, what do you got? You want to launch a new product. Go ahead. Like, you have a certain amount of space, you decide how. What you're going to put into that space. Which is a very different story if you're a startup that's trying to get. Get into. Yeah, yeah, get it, get it in. But ultimately, you know, we were doing product sampling. We were having people reach out to us saying, hey, I got your product at this run that I was at, and I really love it. Like, where can I buy it? But ultimately we ended up getting into Google, which was really, like, truly by accident.

And the first place that you guys got into or how did that go?

So we were in about. So we were in about 10 stores and, you know, throughout the Bay Area. I don't think we were in any stores in la. And then we were in a couple of locations in New York City as well. And. And so, you know, one of our strategies actually was, again, like, everything kind of happened by. By accident. But a friend of mine was showing a movie at Tribeca Film Festival, and she's like, you should get hint on the table of everybody at this dinner for the Tribeca Film Festival. And I'm like, oh, sounds amazing. But, like, we don't sell in New York. So I think it's going to be really frustrating for people because they'll see the product and, you know, again, online was not really happening at that point. And so I picked up the phone and I called a market that I knew of in soho called Gourmet Garage. And I had no idea what I was doing, but I was like, what's the worst that can happen? I mean, they're going to hang up on me, right? And so I. I called and they connected me to the buyer, and I said, hey, I have my product at this dinner at the Tribeca Film Festival, and I would love to put table tents on the tables and tell people where to buy the product at your store. And the woman, I'll never forget, her name's Kara. And so she said, sure. And I was like, wow, really? Oh, my God. And she said, yeah, it sounds great. And she said, can you send me some product? I'm like, absolutely. And I said, by the way, can you fax me an order? I mean, this is. This is 2005, right? There's not. And so she faxes. She faxes me an order with a credit card. Like, I mean, it was. Credit card number. Yeah, it was crazy.

So we kind of like the phone. Was that a huge part of the early days of getting in the first. Let's say like 1, 5, 10 stores. Like you just picking up the phone or how did that. Was it all similar?

Yeah, I mean, I had no idea. I didn't really. Like, people were like, I'd go into Whole Foods and I. They'd say like, oh, who's your distributor? And I'm like, oh me. I just distribute it. Like I. And then after a while I started realizing people were like, they wanted me to be bigger. You know, they wanted like, they were like, oh, you're just a girl making this product in your kitchen. I'm like, well no, it started that way, but then like we actually make it in a factory, but I just don't have a distributor yet because I mean, we don't really need it. I mean we can just deliver it and, and it's okay. But then as we started to grow, it started to not be okay, but it was, you know, we went through a period of time. We were in, you know, a few stores here and there. It was all kind of working for the most part. But then we realized that there were problems with the product. Like we hadn't really figured out how to produce a product that was shelf stable. We would, we did, we really needed a distributor in order to go bigger. We were having requests from stores in like Colorado. I couldn't, you know, get in my car and drive to Colorado and you know, like. And we were like, shipping is going to be really expensive for us to do that. And and so that's when I was really thinking at that point, maybe we close up shop. Like, maybe this is just much more difficult to actually scale. We hadn't raised money at that point either. We had self funded the company. I had four kids under the age of six. Like I was just kind of like, what am I doing? I.

That raises such a important question for me. Like, how are you spending your time, you know, now like four kids, you're trying to get this product out there. It's growing like day to day. I would love to hear some of the early days of like that growth and kind of what was going through your mind with, in a family setting, kids and just how it all played together. Because I think it's, you know, from an entrepreneurial perspective, it's, it's easy to talk about the business but like managing all of that in that part of your life, I'm sure that wasn't easy and I'd love to hear sort of just how you went about that in the early days.

Yeah, well, you know, my husband was also working in the company. And he had been an attorney and was actually taking some time off. And he had actually, after being an attorney, had started a company that was really focused on kind of early days of AI, you know. Yeah, like, it was. It was crazy. A company called Z Medics that he was running that was doing patient interviews and helping to diagnose patients based on different symptoms back in 2004. And so he had sold it off. Actually, it was too early. He had sold it off to the Bosch foundation in Germany. And so trying to figure out what he wanted to do. He didn't know if he wanted to be an attorney. And all of a sudden he's like, seeing that I'm really excited about something, which, frankly, he was excited about too, because he thought, you know, here I am working on health, on consumer health, and you're just telling people drink water, like, and. And then they get healthier, and you're getting all these emails from people and, you know, it's just. It's crazy. Like, for two bucks, people don't need to, you know, turn in products to insurance. It's like, it's not complicated. Right. So he was. He was intrigued and excited about it, and so. So he joined me. But he also realized that some of the logistics were things that he was not only interested in, but he could actually help think about, so the production and the distribution. And so he started also cold calling around and helping to figure out, like, how do we actually increase the shelf life and do all of those things as well? And so we sort of like, you know, that's the beauty, I think, of. It doesn't work for everybody, but it's the beauty of our relationship that we both, like, you know, had different skill sets and we both, like, enjoyed doing different things. So I was much more about the brand and the marketing and the product development, and he was more about, you know, the production and the logistics and the supply chain and really figuring out, like, how do we make those things better? And then, of course, the legal aspect of it, getting the trademarks and all of that kind of stuff. So the combination of the two of us, you know, we would say, okay, who's taking the kids to preschool? We had a nanny as well. So it wasn't like we were, you know, trying to do everything at once. But we were definitely, you know, it was like the six of us and the work, you know, and we were scaling it. And then we added. We had it going out of our garage. So we had an employee that was working in our garage in San Francisco with us, and we'd open up the garage. It was, you know, it was good old days when we were first starting out.

That's so great to hear. It's like working with your partner. And I think those early days, I want to transition back to that. The point you mentioned about getting into Google, like, where. How did that come about? Yeah, you know, like the. The unofficial drink of Silicon Valley is what I've heard. And it's so great to now be able to dive into that. But how did that happen in terms of getting into Google?

So we were at this point where, again, there were so many issues that we had to get figured out, and we felt like we had scaled it. You know, we were. I don't know, we were probably doing a few hundred thousand dollars. And, you know, that was exciting. Like, I always share with entrepreneurs, you know, that first order is amazing. Right. And then you're. You're growing, like, every single day. Like, that's a good milestone. But then you get to a point where you're like, okay, even if I want to grow it more, there's. I've either got to raise capital, I've got to, you know, figure out a better production. I've got to get, you know, people, employees on board. Like, you've got decision points, right, that you've got to make. And that's where we were. And I thought, okay, I could do this, or I could also go do something else. And so there was sort of this combination of two things that went on. One was I believed that we could figure some of these things out, even though the industry said that we couldn't produce a product, for example, that had real fruit in it, that didn't have preservatives in it. I thought, it is it that we can't, or no one's actually done it. That's how I thought about it. And. But I had to just keep thinking about it. And that's the tech side of sort of me. Where I think is, you know, a beautiful piece of tech, is that you never hear people saying, it just can't be done. They don't really think that it can't be done. It just hasn't been done yet. Right. Which was a very different way of speaking than what I was hearing in the consumer products industry that I had entered into. So there was that, and then there was this whole other side that I had come from, which was tech. And so this guy from Google who I knew, who had actually worked with my husband as well at Netscape, reached out and said, hey, we should grab lunch. I want to talk to you about some of the stuff that we're doing at Google. And so we had lunch, and he had been talking to me about, you know, potentially coming. Coming in and doing something at Google. And I wanted to keep the lines of communication open, but I. I wasn't ready to sort of jump into anything. And it wasn't that there was anything wrong with Google or with him. It was just me. Like, I. I wasn't sure what I was going to do yet about him. And so I decided in our lunch to pull out a bottle of Hint and show him what I was up to, as he's, you know, sharing a little bit more with me about what he was doing at Google. And that's when he said, what. What is this? And I explained, you know, I had left aol. I had taken a couple of years off, and I was really surprised that there wasn't this product, like, Hint on the market. And he's like, oh, my God, this is so cool that you decided to do this. And, like, you're in stores, and it's amazing. And he said, you know, it's so funny. I have been tasked with. He was one of the first employees in Google, and he said, I've been tasked with creating an easier way for people to get access to food inside of Google because there's not enough restaurants for Google employees. And so every time people go out to lunch, it takes, like, two hours because they have to wait. And so we're going to just get a bunch of chefs in to actually cook food for our employees. And I'm like, wait, what? This is crazy. And he said, but what I'm thinking is, like, we don't have drinks. We only have food. And so we haven't gotten that far. Like, we were like, maybe we get, you know, vending machines, but all the vending machines have a bunch of crappy drinks in them, and we really want healthy stuff. And I'm like, well, Hint is healthy. And he was like, I know. That's what I'm thinking. He's like, here's this guy Charlie's phone number. And he's like, the head chef. And he said, just call Charlie and tell him that Omid said to. To talk to you and try this product. And I'm like, okay. So of course I don't want to let o me down. And I call Charlie, and I'm like, hey, Charlie, me told me to call you. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That'S yeah, you're talking about me quite asani, right?

Yeah.

And so that's so incredible. I'm really good friends with his son. He was just on my podcast that we've been good friends for years.

That's wild. So, yeah. So me just like. I mean, it's. It's like a hysterical story. So anyway, he was like, wow, that's so cool. You were in tech, and now you're like, are you a chef? And I'm like, no, I'm not a chef at all. Like, created this drink, telling him why. And he's like, oh, that's so cool. Well, who's your distributor? And I'm like, oh, we don't have one. And he's like, that's okay. I don't care. We don't have distributors either. I was just curious, like, if you want to bring 10 cases down. And, you know, he's like, how much is it? And so anyway, deliver the cases. And then the next day, he calls me and he's like, oh, everybody loved it. Can we have 30 cases? And I'm like, 30 cases, sure. And then I'm thinking, wow, like, I wonder how long this will last. And then two days later, he calls me and he's like, can we have 50 cases? I'm like, hey, like, how much do you think you're gonna order? Because I don't have that much in my garage. And he's like, oh, really? Like, you don't have any? Like, you don't have a warehouse? I'm like, no, we, like, did a small. He was like, oh, my God. We're, like, going through this. No, it was crazy. And the crazy story about Google was. So we got into Google, there were no micro kitchens. They started creating these micro kitchens, frankly, because, like, they had to have a drink, like, hint. And have to have someplace to have it scattered all over, you know, the building. But we got to a point where, I mean, that was our biggest retailer. Like, you know, they would buy our product. Google.

That's so incredible.

And so that was the thing that was so crazy, because the employees at Google then went in to Whole Foods and Sprouts and Safeway and everywhere else and said, do you have this product Hint? Because they'd want to buy it at home. And they were like, hint, what is it? And they're like, oh, we have it all over Google. So then the phone started ringing, and then the email started coming, and that is what put a wedge in it. Like, that is what opened it up where the category. They created a Category then at that point, because they're like, oh, my God, there's so much demand that was coming in. And so. But again, like, we didn't plan that. I mean, that was not even, like, incredible. Yeah, no, you should definitely tell a Mead's.

Yeah, Yeah. I was literally at dinner with Milan, his son. Like, we've been best friends for years now, and I didn't even know this story. And, like, hearing that just, like, brings such a smile to my face. Like, to think about that, that's so incredible how that all came about.

It was absolutely crazy. And then, like, it continued on because Sheryl Sandberg was at Google for a while, and more than a while. And I get a call from her assistant when she went to Facebook and she's like, hey, I. I'm calling from a company called Facebook and Sheryl Sandberg is my boss and I guess she used to have your product at Google. And we were just wondering if we could like, order kind of like what Google does. Like, she really loves Hint and she loved the Hint fizz. And. And I'm like, sure. And she's like, well, can you guys just deliver it? And so I was like, sure. So that is how it started at Facebook. And then all of a sudden it started. Like, people would leave and they'd call us and they'd say, hey, we have a startup of 10 people in South Park. Is there any way we can get a delivery? Yeah. And that's really how it started.

Wow. It's just so. It's such a beautiful story because you can't predict these things, right? Like, in the early stages of Hint, but also just entrepreneurship in general. Like, you're never going to know what will become that tipping point. And it seems like this was such a tipping point for you, the business. I would love to talk about, like, in the spirit of our time together today, like, from the scaling the business from going from those early days of like, hey, we don't have 50 cases in our garage and Google wants to keep putting in orders to then being in tens of thousands of retail stores. Just what was the growth and the distribution again, what did that look like? From a distribution growth from the actual building and scaling the team. And what are some pivotal points in the business that were similar to the early days of, like, a moment, like a Google, but especially as the business scaled so many.

I mean, there were so many. I think about this stuff all the time because, you know, we were like many startups thinking, like, maybe we should just shut down. Right? I mean, there Were. There were definitely days like that where we were. We couldn't figure things out. You know, we, we were frustrated, we were scared. Right. Like, there were. There were moments where we weren't sure whether or not, you know, we were going to make it. One of the ones that, you know, I think back on was a major point in the timeline was when we got into Starbucks. You know, we had always thought, like, how do we get in that case at Starbucks? Like, there's all these stores. We didn't even know how many stores there were. We were like, oh, it'd be so cool if we got in there. Actually, that's a really funny story. If, if you have time.

Yeah, I would love to hear that. How did you get into Starbucks?

Yeah. So that. This is a really funny story. So we had been trying, we had been pitching Starbucks for a long time. I rarely tell the story, but we have been pitching them for a long time. And finally I got a hold of a buyer and she called me back and she said, okay, fine. Like we're. Would you guys be willing to do a juice box? Like kind of you, I've heard you talk about apple juice and would you do this kids style juice box? I need to see a mock up. I need to, you know, actually see that it would be hint kids. And anyway, like basically hint, except boxed up and sort of branded different.

We didn't have a product like this at the time, right?

No. And so we created a mock up. We like actually created a little box and you know, pasted it together, like glued it together. It looked really, really good. And she called me the day before and said, by the way, I just want to be very, very clear, you cannot come into the meeting with a bottle of Hint. And I said, what? What do you mean? And she said, we're not talking about hint. We are only going to be talking about hint kits. So do not come into the meeting with hint because if you do that, like, that is, you know, not going to be a good situation. We've got other buyers in there. And you know, and so here I am like, oh my God, you know, big bad Starbucks has told me, you know, like, like, don't do that.

Why was that though? Like, they, they wanted a specific like, kids juice type of product.

Yeah. And she didn't want me to try and pull like, hey, you guys should really be having this one in there, you know, versus this. So I was like, okay, whatever. So my husband and I flew up to Seattle and we stop at Whole Foods and you know, we can't travel with water, right? So it's really nice when it's in the airport, but in the early days, it wasn't in the airport. And so we stopped by Whole Foods and grabbed some hint. And so we're getting out of the car in the parking lot, going into Starbucks, and, you know, my husband's pulling his, like, ice chest out and he's like, with cold hints that we're bringing in. I was like, no, no, don't bring the hint in. And he was like, what are you talking about? I'm like, no. She, like, made a big deal about it, like, only. We're only talking about, like, the boxes. He was like, how are we going to bring the boxes in without the hint? Because you don't have hint in the boxes yet. This is just a mock up of the boxes. I'm like, I know, but she said, don't do it. And he was like, well, I don't know, like, I'm doing it like. He was like, I'll just be drinking the product. And, you know, she can't drink it, I guess, but I don't know. And he's like, just like, I don't know. I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to throw an extra bottle in my purse and maybe somebody else in the meeting will say, hey, do you have a bottle of hint? So we go into the meeting and. And she said, you didn't bring like a bot. You didn't bring any hint with you, did you? And I'm like, well, I just have the bottle, like, with me that I'm drinking. And she was like, okay, that's fine, but don't, don't be like, tasting it. Like, she made a huge deal about it. I'm like, oh, my God. Okay, so we get in the meeting, my husband's drinking it, I'm drinking it. And then we bring the boxes out and they're like, oh, you know, the prototypes. They're like, oh, these are great. And then one of the buyers says, well, do you have any hint with you that we could sort of. I know these are just mock ups, but that we could just imagine. I look over at the woman who told me, don't bring any, and I'm like, oh, you know. And I'm like, you know what? I do have one bottle. I'm gonna drink it in a few minutes, but it's all yours, you can try it. And she was like, oh, amazing. She's like, well, why? Like, why would you. Huh? That's really Weird. Like, why would you bring hint and then not actually have hint? Like, I mean. And of course I didn't want to throw this woman like under the bus, but I'm just like, okay, I'm just doing like what she said. So the meeting ends, everybody's happy. They're like, okay, we really get it. And then we walk out of the meeting, we get back to San Francisco. We got a call the next day from the same woman who told us not to bring the product into the meeting. And she said, great news. She's like, we're not going to launch the hint kids, but we're actually going to put hint into a test. And I'm like, wait, what? And she was like, yeah, you know, we were talking and it was a good thing that you had that bottle with you because that bite. Can you believe it? I'm like, oh my God. I know. And so we were just. It was crazy, right? And so anyway, so we, we find out we're doing a test. We're really excited. We get a call a week later. I'm like, oh no, she's calling back, like, what's gonna happen? And she said, is there any way that instead of doing a test of like 30 stores, you could do 300 stores? And I'm like, oh, that's great. 300 stores, that's amazing. Of course we can just one flavor of the BlackBerry. Okay, sure. Calls back two days later and she said, we're turning it into a thousand store test. Is that okay? And the date was moved up so it's two weeks earlier. I'm like, okay, like, let me see if I can pull this off. And she was like, well, you better, because if you guys can't pull it off, then you're not going to make the set. I'm like, okay, well, we're going to figure it out. We'll figure out what to do. So then she calls back one last time, like two days before we're launching. And she says, I'm sure you guys are going to say no to this, but we would like to launch you in 6,000 stores.

Like, wow.

Yeah. So we didn't even do a test.

Like she was just from the get go.

Yeah. And so we were. And so we were like, whoa. And she said, yeah, like it's. You're going to be launching in those stores. And I said, so, I mean, we're making all this product for you. What is success? And she, I said like, how much do we have to sell? And she said, well, if you sell a Bottle and a half per store, per day. Then you're good. Like, you're awesome. We're gonna be so happy. I'm like, okay. I'm like, you know, counting, counting the money, right? Like, I'm like, oh, my God. This is insane on so many levels. I'm so excited. So it took us six months to get there, like, be doing, like, what she wanted. And then I was just like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. We were hearing from more and more consumers across the. The country, like, in Chicago and other places that we weren't even, like, in. And then a year and a half into it, 40% of my business is running through Starbucks. We're meeting all these new, new consumers. It was a beautiful thing. They paid on time. Everything was great. And then they reached out and said, we have a new head of marketing, and she is actually changing the entire way we are doing business. And you are getting removed from the case. I'm like, wait, what? How. How could this happen?

You said 40 of the business at that time was coming through Starbucks. Wow.

I'm like, when? And she's like, next week.

Oh, my gosh.

Right?

How did you start?

I was like, oh, my. No, you. Are you sure you're talking about the right brand? I mean, that is not. We're doing great. We're, like, doing three times what you guys wanted us to be doing. And she said, I'm really sorry. Like, we'll keep you in 300 stores on the military bases, but we're not going to be able to keep you in all 6,000 stores. And I'm like, oh, my God. So I hung up the phone. I was frustrated. I was angry. I probably cursed out, you know, Howard Schultz and, you know, everything else, like, in my mind.

Yeah.

And. And then this just goes to something else. I believe that, you know, dark days don't last. Right. You have to believe in the future. Right? That it gets brighter and you have to keep your, you know, if you believe in praying, if you believe in positive thinking, whatever it is. And so two weeks later, I get an email from Amazon, and Amazon buyer says, I'm starting this whole new category in grocery, and I buy your product in Starbucks every morning. And I would love to put you guys in the set, but I need product tomorrow. And here I had three truckloads of product that was going to go bad for Starbucks, for Starbucks that I didn't know what to do with. And I reached out to that Amazon buyer. I'm like, I have the product. And he was like, you're kidding. That's amazing. I need it like tomorrow. I'll wire you the money today so it's done. And I'm like, this is crazy. And then almost the end of the story because it goes full circle. That positive day came after that really dark day. And then a year after with Amazon, we're killing it. We're one of the top products in Amazon Grocery. And I was in a buyer meeting with the Amazon buyer and he said, we love your product because people are buying your product and they're also buying things across different categories which we haven't seen in our e commerce business. And that's why we love your product. And I thought, that's amazing. Like, what categories? They're like health. Like, this consumer is really profiling as somebody who wants to get healthier and is buying things like diabetes monitors and healthier products that we're not seeing in other, you know, beverages. And so I said, that's terrific. I would like, can you share a couple emails with me? I'd love to reach out to those consumers because that's why I started this product. And they said no. And that's when I realized if I wanted the data, if I would have had the data when Amazon cut us off when it was 40% of our business and had that relationship with the consumer, then I wouldn't be in the situation that I felt like I was in because I would have had a way to communicate with the consumer. And so that's when we started our direct to consumer business at Hint. And that became almost 40% of our overall business a few years ago. And so, so it's a full circle. Things happen for a reason. Crazy, crazy story.

It literally gives me the chills. And I'm sure you have stories like that in so many different scenarios. And I want to make sure to be respectful of your time today, Kara. But just hearing that again, like, gives you the chills and just, you can never predict the, the ups and the downs, the dark days. And you know, as you said, like, dark days don't last. And I really want to end this conversation in the spirit of just your lessons over the years. Like, you have built such an incredible company, something that, you know, even still to this day, 2023, you have someone like myself enjoying a bottle of hand, someone that's health conscious and like, truly loves the product. And I think it's just a testament to you and your ability to build not only incredible team, but an incredible culture. Like, what have been some of the biggest lessons that you've learned over the years that you'd want young entrepreneurs starting today to learn from you, starting their journey in this new digital world. That's much different than when you were starting your journey.

Yeah. I think follow your gut, first of all. And, you know, sometimes things don't necessarily make sense in the beginning, like the direction that you're headed. Right. It's. If you would have looked at me in 2005, again, mom of four kids under the age of six, I had been a tech executive. I'm jumping into the beverage industry. I, you know, was creating my own product that nobody wanted on the shelf. But I believe. Right. And so I think that leads to the second point, which is if you don't believe, then you shouldn't do it. Right? Like, it, it starts with you, and that sort of follows on with, if you are working for a company and you don't believe there are a million ways to make money and, like, don't work for a company that you don't believe in. Like, gone are the days where you're working to get a pension or, you know, it just doesn't. Like that. It doesn't make sense. And you're doing not only yourself a disservice, but you're also doing the company and the product a disservice. Right. If you. And it could be that you don't believe in it or you just don't understand it yet, whatever it is, don't be there. Right. I think that that's number two. Number three, you're going to have hard days, right? Being an entrepreneur, there are a lot easier ways to make money. And you, and it's like a sickness, right, where you jump in and you want to, you want to sort of solve a problem, right? You're. You're the best. Entrepreneurs are problem solvers and they, they want to, they're builders. They want to look at something and figure out how to make it better. They want to grow it. They want to. They're never finished, right. They keep going, they keep adding on to it. It doesn't matter what categories. So that is. That's the life of an entrepreneur. But again, it's not easy. And you're going to have these, you know, days where you're going to have the Starbucks buyer. Everything's. You can be doing everything right, and then suddenly things are not right anymore. Right. Right. And. And so I think that that is a big lesson that I've learned also along the way. There's so many, I would say teams are critical that it's and teams that are, that are buying into your idea and working for your idea are gold. Right. And it's like being a founder, being a CEO of a group of people. I mean, think how crazy that is. It's sort of like saying like, hey, I'm. I've got the sandbox. And it's like, so great and you've got to, like, come and enjoy it. Like, there's no reason why they should when you think about it. Right. And so that's the thing too, that, you know, I always say to people, when you're building these teams, be really gracious and thankful for the team that is helping you to make your dream a reality. Absolutely. And I think that that's great. And always continue to make, you know, obviously, your product better and better and better. When you stop, when you actually have decided that you're the best and you're at the top of the mountain, just know that there's others. If you're really that great, there are others that are looking at you. And it's probably not the big guys, right? It's the little guys that are, that are trying to unravel what you've done because they're thinking about how to make it better and they have a lot to lose. And I would say one last thing that I've learned as well, that the people that actually don't just hire people who have the best experience or the best education or, you know, seem like they can actually take you to the summit. Right. It's the people who have actually failed, some who have actually seen dark days are probably going to be the ones that are going to help you to actually be the most successful. So don't close your eyes to people just because they've been fired or, you know, they've got challenges that they've, you know, gone through, know that, that maybe they'll take a little bit more of your time in order to manage along the way. But we found some of our best employees along the way are the ones that no one else would take a chance on because they were fired. They had been. They couldn't stay in a job. They had, you know, substance abuse issues. They had, you know, challenges along the way that they were embarrassed about. Those are going to be the people that are really going to, you know, be the big hitters for you.

Wow, that's powerful. All of those points are so spot on and I appreciate you sharing that, Kara. Just again, for the, for the sake of time, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today. I could talk to you for hours. You're so delightful to speak with and just I'm learning so much through these stories. But for those that want to connect with you, learn more about what you continue to work on, learn more about your book, your podcast. You have so many incredible things that you do. Where's the best place where people can follow you and connect with you?

Awesome. So Kara golden all Over Social My book is called Overcoming Doubts and Doubters and the podcast is the Kara Golden Show. So talk to lots of founders. I always weave in a few of my own stories in there along the way as we have discussions. But but I really focus on the founding stories because I think that there's so many lessons that you can learn and everyone's stories in every category.

Absolutely. Well I will make sure to link all of that down below. And again, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Thank you.