Kristen Anderson - Creating A Free Tax Withholding And Benefits Platform For Anyone (Co-Founder of Catch)

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What is going on everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to Rise of the Young. On today's podcast we have Kristen Anderson, the co founder and CEO at ketch. Kristen is a product leader in consumer fintech and banking integration. Kristen is the co founder and CEO at Catch, a Y Combinator backed startup combining savings, investment and insurance for those without access to employer benefits. Early in her career, she worked with Commonwealth to design and scale innovative savings products that now serve more than 80 million consumers. Kristen also helped launch one of the first student loan repayment SaaS benefit platforms. That being said, I was very excited to interview Kristen because I recently partnered with Catch Co for my podcast. You may have heard the ad in the previous episode, but I'm very excited to not only be a consumer of this product, but to listen to the story of how Kristen came on board, became CEO and has built it into what it is is a phenomenal story and I know you are going to love it. So that being said, make sure you take a moment to share this episode with a friend, especially if they are building any type of of product in the tech world. And that being said, enjoy the episode with Kristen Anderson.

Here we go. All right, what is going on everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. On today's episode we have Kristen Anderson, the co founder and CEO at caps. Thanks so much for coming on, Kristin.

Really excited to be here.

Thanks.

So first off, I just want to say I'm super excited about this podcast because I think it's super important as a female founder of how you've built Katch.

And before we jump into it, I'd.

Love for you to give some insight into what Katch is and how you guys have created such a unique product for the marketplace.

Yeah, so we started Catch a couple years ago. I can't believe it's been, it's been almost three years. But the main insight was that the way we work is changing. And you probably know this really well, but the traditional sort of 9 to 5 work for one employer, start when you're 22 and retire at 65, is just not how most of us live and work anymore. And so there's a lot of opportunity that comes with that. Right. On demand income, earning, the ability to pursue careers and passion. Right. There's a whole bunch of opportunity. But on the other side of that, there are certain financial outcomes that are a lot more challenging to pursue.

Right.

So tax withholding, retirement, health insurance, all this stuff that a traditional employer takes care of for you is something that becomes your responsibility. And that's tough. Right. Nobody wants to spend their time thinking about taxes. Nobody wants to spend their time figuring out their retirement every month. And so we've created a platform to create sort of an automated paycheck. So that thing that you would get as a traditional employee at W2, every time you get paid, you get tax withholding taken care of, money put into your retirement, your health insurance premiums paid. And so we've done that for folks who are non traditional income. So no matter how many income sources, how many different ways or times you get paid, you can still have that same experience of getting taxes, retirement, health insurance all in one.

I love that. And I think it's so cool because I just set up my account recently and it's one of those things where I want the listeners to understand. It's, you know, you link up your bank account or whatever place that you're bringing in income, and then you can automatically pick and choose the percentages of where you want it to go. And I think that's super valuable for me as someone that's running their own companies and receiving different types of income from different places. And I think for the young entrepreneurs listening, not only to listen to the story, because that's what I'm super excited about today, is to hear how this came about. So I guess the next question I want to ask you is before Catch, what were you doing and how did that lead to you creating Catch?

Yeah, so my story with Catch, I think is a little bit non traditional. And I think it's like important to start seeing that there are different ways to become an entrepreneur. So I was at a startup that did student debt repayment as an employer led benefit. So Basically having a company pay down your student loans as a benefit that you receive for working there. So that's how I got in the benefit space. I was the first hire. I was head of product. Grew the product team to about a dozen folks ahead of a series A. So first, first employees out there. I feel like there's a lot of resources for founders, but first employees, like I see you and I understand what that means and I think that the what that's what I was doing before. And then the way that I joined Catch is actually my co founder Andrew hired me not as his co founder, but as the head of product. So I joined the team thinking it was like any other startup and just like an opportunity for me to get, you know, more experience building product and like a great, you know, ideas like this seems really interesting. And then after a couple months I stepped into a role as co founder and coo. And I think for anyone out there who's looking to start their own business, the prospect of finding a co founder is really difficult. And like, how do you do that and who do you look for? And like everyone you talk to is like, oh, go with someone that you've worked with for five years. Well, you know, like you don't necessarily have someone that you've worked with for five years. And so my co founder Andrew took the approach of saying, like, I'm going to hire the best person for this role. And we just found that we had a ton of compatibility to be able to run the business together. So I stepped in as COO and co founder and did that for a while. And then after about a year and a half, we had a really important conversation where he said, you know what, I don't want to be CEO. I don't want to be doing all the partnership and investor conversations. I want to be building the product. And so we had an opportunity to sort of rethink the roles and I became CEO. So again, a very non traditional journey. But I think it's important to know that there are a bunch of different ways that you can be an entrepreneur and it doesn't have to necessarily be like giving up all of your, you know, your salary and going to work from a garage for two years.

Absolutely. That's very cool. When you came on board, how early was the product when it comes to building it out?

Yeah, it was, we were a year shy of launch. So we had not launched. It was still super, super early. We had been bootstrapping some funding. There were about three engineers on the team. So it was super early. I love the zero to one stage. Right. I love the, like, we think we know what we want, but we don't exactly know how to get there. I think that's one of the most fun phases. So I definitely was on the early, early side. But, yeah, I think getting, like, my first priority was like, what does it take for us to get a single person to be able to have a dollar move through our system? And I was like, what does that take? And I think getting that to happen the first time that happened is a pretty amazing feeling that I think a lot of folks just, like, don't understand what that feels like to. To make something that does that.

Totally. You said zero to one. That's one of my favorite books from Peter Thiel. I'd love for you to touch on that because I know that book has been such an amazing resource for me. And I'd love for you to touch on the subject of what zero to one means to you.

I think the most important thing that I've taken away from that phase of the business is ruthless prioritization. Like, it is the ability to say, we could build infinite things, right? Like, there's nothing. There's nothing out there yet. So what actually goes live is completely in our hands right now. And the only way that you actually get something done is if you're willing to say no a lot. Right. And the ability to say this isn't important and this isn't important, and yes, that's important, but it's not important right now. And to really understand, like, what is the minimum thing that has to go out, and recognizing that the minimum thing doesn't necessarily mean the absolute minimum, it's often the minimum that your customers will actually like. Right? So it's like you could make something terrible, but you'll never actually get a good sense of whether or not it's working unless you make the minimum that customers are willing to love. I think the name that some folks have used is Minimum Lovable Product. So what is it that someone can love and share with? And then how do you just, like laser focus, take everything else off your plate to be able to focus exclusively on that?

I love that. And I know one of the things, too, is that you guys are backed by Y Combinator. I'd love for you to give us some insight on that, because that is not only an amazing brand and team to be a part of, but what does that look like when it comes to having a backing of Y Combinator?

Yeah, I think Y Combinator is really Great in the sense that they write down exactly what their expectations are. And it's amazing how a lot of people will ask, like, what's the secret? And the short answer is, read everything that they write, right? Like, they're really clear in their writing, and they're really explicit about what it is they look for. But I think the summary of it is, like, solve a really big problem. And they have used language of, like, make something people want. And then I think they revise that to say, make something people need, and say, like, what is it that people need? And, like, are you making something that people really need? And that's really the first step is just like, can you do that? And I think the other thing is really hard to run your business in a way that you don't take it personally. It's really hard. Like, it is really hard to do that. Something that I think every founder will sort of associate with, like, your business is you, and, like, your business is what you spend your life on. Right. But I think that the. That Y Combinator asks a bunch of questions where they'll say things like, you know, tell us why you're different than your competitors. And the difference between a Y Combinator founder and a lot of other founders is that a lot of founders will get really defensive right away. Well, we're better than our competitors because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think a Y Combinator founder is able to, like, really succinctly say, like, we think we're differentiated in this way and not get defensive and really, like, separate the personal from the, like, the business. And it's not easy, right? It's something. It's like a continuing journey, one of those, like, lifelong journeys that you're never going to be perfect at because it is your life. But being able to, like, simply say what it is you do, why you do it, why it's important, who the need is. Solving and articulate that in a way that others can understand is sort of the secret to getting Y Combinator's attention.

I love that. That's super important when it comes to building team culture within your organization, especially in a time like this where things are digital and you're doing zoom calls. How have you guys adapted over the past six months during this transition? And you your business?

Yeah, Well, I will. This is one of those, like, what are you gonna say on a podcast that five years from now, people are like, I can't believe you said that. My personal opinion is that early stage companies should be in person. And while we are able to like complete tasks remotely. We have worked really hard to try and find opportunities to spend time together, whether it's outside or like socially distance inside of our office. But I think in the really early days there's just no substitute for being able to like solve Ambigu problems quickly and together. So you have to do that safely. Like, you have to recognize that there is certainly a risk. People need to wear masks and things like that. But I think the immediate push to just like, we're all remote now is not something that I think we're on board with. I think at a certain scale you have to be right. So early on we did a lot of, we started doing daily standups. We used to do them on Monday morning with the whole team. But when we're remote, we have to do them every day. Like you just like need to see everybody's face, even if it's for five or 10 minutes. You need to just like get a sense of what people are doing. But we are now on the path back. We're in Massachusetts, so our numbers are looking good for now. We'll keep an eye on it. But we are doing a couple days in the office for folks who are able to be there so that we can just like have that like really quick problem solving. Like the only thing you have as a startup is speed and asynchronous. Like asynchronous communication is slower. It just is. And so it's like you're losing your one advantage by being remote. So again, we'll see how in five years when someone plays this back to me. But that's certainly how I feel right now.

I love that for sure. And when it comes to just how you navigate on a daily basis, when it comes to where you spend your time and how you think about things as CEO of a tech product, where do you spend your time and why?

Again, ruthless prioritization really does become the key there as well. I think the answer is it changes. It changes based on where the business is at. It changes based on any given fundraising cycle or anything like that. But I think the way that I think about what's most important is on a, like it's sort of a two handed. Like one is like, what's the impact of my time being spent here now? And then two is like, what's the problem if I don't spend time on this until later? Right. So some of those things you have to sequence where like there's not necessarily an impact tomorrow, but three months from now you'll be Screwed. So it's about like balancing those two things. I think the transition that I'm making. So again, the thing about like high growth startups is that your business changes constantly and that means that your role changes constantly. And so what it is you're trying to do changes. And I am right now in the transition between like being very hands on to starting to be more of a, like a CEO of leaders. Right. So we have team leads now and I think, and that's a transition. Like it doesn't happen overnight. You don't go from like doing everything yourself like I was doing at the very beginning. Well, obviously, you know, with the team, but like being very involved in the details to being like, oh, I'm the CEO and like my, my department heads will report to me. Like that doesn't happen immediately. And so making that transition, I think that someone once described to me like the role of a CEO at a high growth startup is to demonstrate where the company is going to be in three months and to act accordingly. So my job is to help lead the team through what change is coming in the next three months and help set those expectations for them so that when those changes actually arrive, they're ready for it and they're prepared to act on that.

Totally. I love that you're bringing up some very key points when it comes to being an entrepreneur. Looking back in your career, is this something you would have expected to come into your life or what were some of your early goals before going to college and moving into your career?

Yeah, well, so I don't think I ever thought I was gonna be a founder. Even three months before I was a founder. I think I recognized how much work it was. Like, I was like, why would I ever want to do that? It's an insane amount of work. I think early in my career I. Well, when I was a child, I wanted to be president, right? It was like, I want to be president now. I don't think you could pay me enough money to do that job. I just. No desire absolutely zero. Doesn't actually seem very fun at all. But I think when I was in college, I expected that I would go to a big company. And part of this, I think that's really important and why I love that you're doing this podcast is that it really depends on what your context is. I am first generation college, right? Like no one in my family had gone to college. My parents were very blue collar. My dad was in a union, worked for the phone company. My mom was a secretary. Like, I didn't have exposure to startups or even to, like, engineers or, you know, high paying white collar jobs. And so I, my expectation was, was often like, okay, well, I'm gonna go work at a big company because I could, like, name them, right? Like, I'll just go work at Microsoft or something like that. Right. I didn't necessarily want to work at Microsoft. It was just the only career path that was apparent to me. Once I went to business school, I got into consulting, which was awesome. I got to see a lot of big companies from the inside and, and I think that sufficiently turned me off to big companies. I was like, ooh, this doesn't seem like it's that fun of a place to be. And so, yeah, I think it was just, it was just a journey. And like, you have to, like, the more we can expose young people to what career options are available, I think the better we position them. And growing up, I'm from Reno, Nevada, right. Like, there's not even like a private college in Reno. There's a state school, and that's it. So I think just helping people, like, understand their options earlier is a really good way to, like, give them insight that, like, maybe an entrepreneurial path is for you.

Yeah, totally. When you stepped into this role, what did you have to change about your personal life and how you think about your time and just, you know, I'm sure it was a big transition for you personally stepping into this new role. And how did you adjust to this? I think a lot of people that may be listening, you know, they're starting their first business, they just raised their first round. They have new things that are coming into their picture, and then they have to adapt and pivot very quickly, which a lot of people are doing now. So how have you been able to make those quick pivots and what have you learned from them?

Yeah, I think the biggest thing that changes almost overnight is the weight of your voice. And I think a lot of us are used to contributing to conversations as an individual. And when we say things and when we feel things, when we think things, we share them with people around us. And it's not that as a CEO, you don't want to be transparent, because you do. You should be authentic, you should be transparent. You should share your feelings and vulnerabilities. And there's a way to do that as a way to demonstrate strength. But I think one of the things that you don't necessarily recognize immediately is that you can make a comment off the cuff that can really change things for people. And that has a really big impact on them in a way that, like, it wouldn't necessarily have if you were. If you were peers. And just as an example, like, if you're kidding around with one of your engineers and, like, they make a mistake, and you'd be like, oh, like, we're gonna fire you. Like, even if you're just joking, even if you're just totally joking, the weight of your voice is completely different. And I think as someone who is fairly social and, like, likes to have a personal relationship with people I work with, I think learning that is something that, like, it takes a little bit of time, and it takes getting used to. Like, if there's a conversation happening about politics or about, you know, social justice or other things that are happening in the world, it's not that you shouldn't be a part of those conversations, because you really should as a leader. You should be a part of them. But you should recognize that your participation is as a leader and not as, like, a member of the crowd. And I think that that's, like, a big adjustment if you're not used to that.

Yeah, totally. I know when I was speaking with Noelle, she was telling me about just how you engage with Twitter and how you personally use social media to, you know, like, you just said, be a leader and have a voice. When did that come into your life? When it comes to just being involved, actively sharing your opinions and points of views on different topics on social media?

Yeah. So I signed up for Twitter in, gosh, I don't know, 2013 or something like that, and never used it. Like, I was really late. I was, like, late to the game. Like, I'm 32 now, so I was very late. I was 25 years old and had no real desire to use it and had, I don't know, 300 followers or something like that up until, like, a year and a half ago. And it was when we got into Y Combinator that I realized people were listening and people were watching. And so it really. Honestly, I credit my co founder a lot for this, and I think it's been a really healthy dynamic for me because I think, especially as a female CEO, we're often told, like, we're not supposed to share things or, like, we have to act like men in order to, you know, and there's all this additional pressure to be able to succeed. And my co founder was like, forget that. Like, your opinions matter and people want to hear it. And so I think it was really when I started, like, when we were in Y combinator that I started building a following, and there was, like, it wasn't even particularly intentional. I think it was that I was just saying things that were happening, and I think I was saying them in a way that was a little bit more, shall we say, unfiltered. Yeah, I think a little bit more.

Unfiltered aspect of it, for sure.

Yeah. But. But I think that that, like, that was surprising and refreshing to a lot of people. And I think, you know, as a tech founder, the relationship that you have with VCs is very difficult because, you know, a lot of times, like, you're somewhat dependent on VCs for your business to continue to exist. And so a lot of people are, like, reluctant to say how they actually feel or to call out bad behavior. And I think maybe it was part of the, like, the bonus that came from the fact that I wasn't an original founder and that, like, I was able to distance myself from the business a little bit. And I just saw it as like a, you know, if there's bullshit, I'm call out bullshit. Like, that's not about me personally. Like, I don't want to work with an investor who, you know, doesn't think women are equal or, you know, any of these other things. And so building a following really just came from using. Using the voice that I had, but recognizing that it was stronger than I realized and that there were people who wanted to hear what I had to say. Yeah, but I would. I would say don't do it on purpose. I don't know, maybe that's. That's easy to say afterwards, but, like, intentionally going out to build an audience, I think is really tough. I think it is more about just, like, sounds so lame. Speak your truth. Like, speak your truth. Like, speak the truth that you see. Speak to the world as you see it. And I think having opinions that are. I mean, again, the cliche is strong opinions loosely held. Like, I think that is a really important part of the conversation, especially on tech Twitter.

I love that. I wanted to go back to what you said earlier about when the platform went live, that $1 going through the platform and what that feeling is like. Can you tell me about this? Because I think that's a moment, like, for example, when someone launches a tech product, that's a pivoting moment for how you think about it and actually seeing it work and seeing it come to life and getting users. Can you walk us through the process of not only that day, but if someone gets on Cats today, just the experience that they're gonna have on the platform.

I'm gonna start with the second part of the question and then I'll tell you the story of the first day. So the experience today is meant to be technologically enabled and completely self serve, right? The ability to answer. We just launched a brand new onboarding that's very conversational. It'll feel like you're texting, right? So it's like, what do you do for work? Like what state do you live in? Like do you have kids? Like, and you just answer those questions. So super conversational onboarding. Then we make recommendations about the benefits that you should be thinking about, right between taxes, time off, family leave, all that sort of stuff. And then we help you set those up. So connect your bank account, get the withholding ready and then set up your income rules. So where do you earn income from and how are we going to act on that when it happens? That's the setup process. The main goal is to be able to set it and forget it. Like I said, you don't want to be thinking about this stuff. So set it up, get the rules set and then just like let it work on your behalf. Check in for your statements, make sure you understand where everything's coming from and going. But it really just works, right? That's the goal. The first day, obviously you launch with an mvp. Like I said, minimum, minimum lovable product. So we, the first question you have to answer, especially as a consumer product, not B2B is like, where do you find your users? And so for fintech, it's really hard to just go out and like acquire broadly when you don't have anything because you have to be able to build trust. And like when you're taking people's money, you have to be able to build trust. So our trick, call it a trick, we actually hired a handful of freelance writers who are completely in our target demographic to write reviews about the product and we hired them to write it and they were our very first users. I don't even know if they know that they were our very first users. But what we did is the very first one, we had a phone call and we like scheduled the phone call because we're like, we want to do it over the phone. So it was me and my co founder and one of our engineers and our head of growth and we were all sitting around the phone and we're walking through the product of like click here and then we're like waiting and we've got an engineer who's got the like backend dashboard up so we can see what activities are happening real time. And it was the first time we connected all these different pieces, right? From linking your bank account to, like, setting everything up in our software, to opening a new bank account where the withholding is going, then actually moving the money through that. So that was happening. Everyone is, like, barely breathing. Like, I'm talking the guy through it. Like, okay, now you click here. And like, okay, now you click here. And then when he was linking his bank account, he had had a bank account at this bank for, like, 20 years. And so what that meant was he had a lot of accounts. He had, like a home equity line of credit. He had a bunch of other stuff. And so, like, typically, if you think about your bank account, say bank of America or Chase, you might have, like, two accounts. So you've got like a checking account and a savings account, right?

Yeah.

Well, this guy, we didn't know this at the time, but this guy connects his bank account. There were 27 sub accounts. And so what that meant was it took like two and a half minutes to connect. And so we're all sitting there on the, on the phone, like, real time, watching it go through, and it's just, like, taking forever. And we can't. Like, we're like, is something broken? Like, is it not broken? Is this how long it should. Should take? Because we had no, like, context. You know, we've done it in tests and stuff like that with our bank accounts on the back end. But, like, this is the first, like, customer coming through. So we were just convinced that we had just completely messed up and that the whole thing was broken. And then after about two and a half minutes, like, it connected and it was like, everything is working great. And it was just this moment where everyone, like, we had to mute the phone because we were all like. Like, it was this huge sigh of relief that, like, okay, it actually happened the way it was supposed to. So that's that zero to one feeling, you know, and then to, like, get past that hurdle and then like, okay, now I'm going to transfer the money. And I think the whole process, like, you know, it just. It took so much to get to that point. Which is funny, when you think about just, like, money going from one bank account to another, you're like, that's no big deal. But, like, actually, like, tying those pieces together was not easy. So that's not the experience now. It's far better than that. We don't make you get on the phone with us. We don't make you, like. But I think that was a really important part of the learning for us.

I was so just as you were describing that. It felt like I was watching a movie of scene by scene, phone call waiting. And for everyone listening to, like when I signed up, the process is going through those questions. It's such a seamless, simple, enjoyable process. And it's super cool to, you know, for myself, being a consumer of the product now, but also hearing the story from yourself of day one and, you know, back to our key points of what we talked about earlier, like how you've had to pivot and adapt and grow and, you know, your first product isn't the last product you put out. And I have two more questions before we wrap up, Kristin, and that is for anyone that's looking to build a, let's say tech product before that day or they go live. Where do you believe they should place their priorities when it comes to finding talent and working with developers and getting the creative down? And, you know, there's a lot of factors that go into before you click launch. So where do you suggest tech founders allocate their time and why?

I think the one thing that most people under, under prioritize, it's not really a word, but don't prioritize as much as they should is spending time with their customers. I think a lot of people build for problems that they've experienced, right? For problems they have. My co founder, Andrew was a freelancer, right. So he had sort of lived this life. But I think that as a result, sometimes founders completely, just like they think they don't need to talk to their customers at all. And then there's this switch that happens at some point where you go from being the consumer of the potential product to being the builder of it, and you start missing things that your customers would be telling you. So I think between all the things you have to prioritize, one that you will almost never spend too much time on is talking with your customers, getting to know your customers, understanding what it is they want, listening to their feedback about the problems that they have in the very early days, that is critical. Beyond that, I would say, and again, do as I say, not as I do. You know, we've learned a lot through this process, but I think not over building, like not spending too much time on the build. Really, that ruthless prioritization of, like, what is the shortest path between the problem I want to solve and a way that it could be solved, even if it's sort of hacky. Right. And it's again, it's that move fast, break things sort of mentality to have a few problems with, especially in regulated spaces. But in general it's like, can you do this with a no code tool? Can you use type form to collect information? And then can you like, can you do this? Money Services is a little bit different. So fintech founders, like, you have to go through the regulatory stuff. But for tech in general, I would say, like, how can you get like the minimum amount of time, like design. Here's a really good. I stole this from Twitter, so I can't even take original credit for it, but someone said if you put out a website that was beautiful but had no words on it, or like words that were like kind of gobbledygook that didn't make sense, and then you put side by side a website that had excellent copy that was really well written that like described the problem and described what you were trying to solve, but had no design. It was just like text and then a button. Which one do you think would convert better? It's not the design one. And as much as I think design is critically important, like as it as a company grows, I think there's a desire to like make beautiful things right away. But if you're solving a real problem, you can just write like, here's the problem we solve. Sign up here and like, you'll have far better results. So don't over focus on like the aesthetic and the visual and the brand. Really focus on that problem. Because if you can tell someone the problem that you're solving for them in a clear and succinct way, like, you will start earning revenue, you will start succeeding with your customers, and then you can invest in those things to make it beautiful.

I love that. That was a perfect way to end the show. Kristen, before we wrap up, I want to ask you, not only what are you excited about for Catch moving forward, but where is the best place for people to learn more about Catch?

Yeah, I think the thing I'm most excited about is the opportunity of people building their own careers. Like that is happening, right? And so as that happens, like the ability for us to take this stuff off of people's plates for them to be able to pursue what it is they're passionate about and not have to sit down and like, think about taxes. Like, nobody likes that. Nobody. So I think that I'm most excited about sort of the creator economy and folks who can like make things and build things and focus on where their skills are most. And I think that's just like such an exciting space that we've just started to unlock. And as much as, like, the pandemic has had a lot of challenging parts, I think the creator economy is going to thrive. Right. The ability to monetize your skill, like cooking in the kitchen, like Airbnb experiences. Right. Like, all of this stuff that has never really taken off before, you've now got a huge amount of attention on it and you are able to build a career around that. And so I think that that's, like, a really exciting trend that I'm excited about. For Catch, you can find out more about us. We're in the App Store, iOS and Android. Google Play. I guess that's what it's called. Google Play. We're also on the web, so Catch co. Or you can search Catch benefits and we'll come up. I'm also on Twitter. Catch, Kristen. That's pretty easy way to find me. And I do respond. I like chatting with our users. I use Twitter as a way to stay in touch with our users and our audience. And so, yeah, we're always around to answer questions and really excited about the, like, the folks who are coming through to, like, make the future better through their own, you know, creation and building.

Yep. I love that. For everyone listening, I will make sure to link everything that you just said down below so that they can go check out that out. And that being said, Kristin, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It's been a pleasure.

Thanks so much.

Legacy of Monsters An Apple original series. The world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me, the most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

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Legacy of monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV. Plus.