Max Siegelman - Founder of Siegelman Stable; Capturing the Essence of a Legacy

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by Max Siegelman, the founder of Siegelman Stable. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Max.

Appreciate for having me, Casey. Thanks.

Of course, man. We were just chatting before the show. You know, we've had. I've had so many different mutual friends of ours on the pod, really, I feel like over the last couple of years, and I've seen Siegelman Stable and the brand that you've been building from afar everywhere, I feel like recently. And it's so cool to not only see what you've created, but to finally chat about it today and dive into the story. So thank you so much for coming on.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

Sweet. So for those that may not know what Sickleman Stable is in the brand, would love to have you give a high level context of what it is that you created.

Totally. Yeah. So I just started doing this a little over two years ago. Never expected, expected to kind of do it and take it to where it's been. Kind of really just started to make hats and sweatshirts using my dad's brand and his. His logo of his actual racehorse stable that he's had since the 80s. And it spiraled pretty quickly into not just family and friends wanting to. To get their hands on stuff, but actually launching a Shopify and getting it out there through just relationships that I've had and past work and stuff. So, uh, at its essence, Siegelman Stable is a racehorse stable. Um, but like I said, like, two years ago, I started to create as like a sports, luxury, fashion brand. And it's been an amazing, fun, blessed ride with the opportunities that we've had and the projects that we've done and, and still have coming up.

Dude, so epic. And, you know, just. Just even hearing that too, man, like two years ago, you've, you've. You've built the brand so quickly. And not only have so many influential people worn the brand, but like, you guys, when I look at clothing brands, like, you guys have really found your lane and found the vein of what's working. And I gotta ask, like, when you decided to do this, right, like, taking this concept of this horse stable that your dad created to then creating the brand, like, what. Where did that idea come from? And like, what led you to wanting to do that? Right? Like, there's. I think it's so incredible and cool to reinvent a brand in the modern day and age into a clothing brand that represents your family and the business that your dad created. And I just think it's so epic to see. But what was that idea? And how did you, you know, why did you decide to do that initially?

Yeah, so, I mean, it's even cooler. Cause my mom actually, like, hand sketched the two logos that we started with. And the only two logos that he had back in the 80s, she. So recreating those logos was, like, the hardest part so far. I mean, for me, when I first started, it was really all about, like, I wanted just to get some hats and some sweatshirts for myself and family if they wanted it that had the logo, the existing logo and stuff on it. And I started this in the middle of a pandemic, just, like, wasn't traveling as much with clients and for work and stuff, and had some spare time and literally just sat down and sketched out three different colorway hats, three different colorway sweatshirts. But when it got to that level of making a decision, I was like, do I actually want to start selling this to just random people? And the reason I did is basically I was, like, posting it on my personal Instagram and just had a ton of DMS and requests asking where they could buy it and just a lot of interest in it. So I said from that moment before I started selling it to people or just to a wider audience and customers was like, I want to fully stick to my dad's brand story, tell his story through fashion, and make sure I'm hitting every layer of it and never veer from the actual brand story. So any collaboration we do, any collection we do all goes back to the actual brand story and what he lived and breathed his entire life of working with horses. So, that being said, we donate a portion of proceeds to different equine therapy programs. Um, because he had such a passion for equine therapy programs and still does, and utilize his racehorses in a different way than I think most. Most horse trainers or horse owners did, beyond just using them as racehorses as a. As an occupation, but opened up to stable, to different equine therapy opportunities for people.

Got it. Love that. And I want to talk about something that we were jamming about before the show, which is the super bowl party that you guys just had. You know, this is. This pod is coming off fresh out of the party. You know, you guys are feeling the. I'm sure the. The relief lifted off your shoulders of planning a big event like a Super bowl party. How was the party? I wasn't able to be there, but I would love for you to just give. Give the viewers some context of, you know, what the party was and really what it meant to you because from social perspective, I know I had lots of friends there, it looked incredible. And again, congrats on the. The epic event.

I appreciate. Yeah, it was epic. We were brought in by Diageo, who owns Don Julio and Johnny Walker to kind of bring their first internal collaboration that they've done in house under the Diageo umbrella and create a three piece capsule for it. So the event that we put on is called Blue 42 and it was an in house, like I said, collaboration between Johnny Walker Blue and don Julio in 1942. And obviously blue 42 is that like QB call in football. So it was definitely like very on brand for them. And we were given the amazing opportunity, like I said, to create those three pieces as a collection to bridge those two different brands together. And I think the alignment of those two, those two luxury liquor brands really matched up with our brand and our audience and where we want to sit in terms of luxury streetwear. So the event was epic. We did the capsule drop a week before the event that was in Phoenix. We had some insane music performers. It was amazing. It was really cool to see just the project come to fruition and doing it with a great partner in Diageo and Johnny Walker.

And don't that's so epic. Do you guys do a lot of events or is that not something that you guys do often? Something like collab event with a big brand?

Yeah, so. So we don't do it often. Like I think for, for us, anytime that we do a collab or a project with either an NBA team in a different city or an individual or another brand in a different city and we can have some type of in person activation. It's really great community building and growth opportunity for us. We're based in New York. Our audience is obviously the biggest in New York and the support in New York is epic. So anytime that we can create, whether it's a pop up shop environment or an activation environment where people can actually touch and feel the clothes because I think when you're just an E commerce brand and people see your stuff and they might see a price point and be like, I don't know, I can't touch it, I can't feel it. Yeah, it really gives a great opportunity for us, like I said, just to grow the community and engage with the community that we might have there that we don't get the opportunity to often.

Absolutely. Speaking of just pop ups, the brand itself, when you were first, you know, making that transition from like, oh, I Want to make some hats and some, some hoodies for myself and family to hey, I want to go sell this to customers. What was the initial roadmap? Was it, hey, we'll just do direct to consumer. Did you do your initial first pop ups or what did that process look like of actually committing to that, hey, like let's build this brand and go all in and actually, you know, find our customers and where they are.

Totally. So I think, I think it was like, it was a few things for me. So one, it was the middle of a pandemic. So like being an online brand was like pretty much the only way you could sell product.

Yeah.

And being a new brand and trying to get your name out there, it was the only way to do it at the moment. Right. So for me it was like, where do we sit in terms of alignment and customer and who our customers are? And I'll always say forever that our customers are anyone. I always look at like when I first started this, I looked at who I could get our brand in front of from an inspirational standpoint and from, and from more of a just like straight ahead alignment. So as like an aspirational side is like maybe I looked at. People have never seen a horse in person, never been in front of a horse. And then the more like relatable side is like the Kendall Jenners and the Bella Hadid to own horses and, and have an affinity for horses. So for us, our audience, I, I always thought, and still do, I think can be anyone. I think in terms of like our first activation, we obviously did it on, on our home territory in Brooklyn. We did our first pop up in July 2021 and it was like, I won't say it was like a lull of the pandemic where I think a lot of people thought things were getting a lot better and obviously there was a lot of ebbs and flows during it. But, but we had an amazing successful two day, three day pop up shop. Sold out everything that we could possibly made in time to have it go off and it was unreal. So we try and do those types of activations wherever we see fit. But definitely our main focus is E commerce driven and that for the foreseeable future is where we're at.

I love that when it comes to like the pop ups and even like prior to launching the brand, like what, what led you to having these different relationships and you know, the, not only the experience but the willingness to go do these pop ups. Like what, what was your life prior to launching the brand and what were you doing before?

Yeah, so I did creative and social, like, consulting for some hip hop artists, for some athletes. And before that, when I was graduating school, I launched a social aggregation app that was fan facing with my best friend's older brother, who had experience, like, building websites for Paris Hilton and some other people. So kind of that was my entree into, like, the entertainment side of the world. We were lucky enough to launch that app and platform with LL Cool J, which obviously opened up a lot of doors and opportunities and kept that relationship and added some others along the way. So for me, the biggest thing in growing Siegelman stable was utilizing all of those relationships and networking opportunities that I kind of kept and nourished through like, eight to 10 years of just insulting work or doing things for free just to get a relationship or create a relationship and hold onto it, and then finally having something of my own to get out there and having their support and obviously their reach is helpful when you're trying to get something out.

That's. No, that's so epic. Who was the first just true supporter celebrity aspect that rocked the brand? That was, like, a epic moment for you in the early days.

Yeah. So it's funny that it happened this way, and I don't know if it was a manifest thing or what, but I'm a huge future fan, and I think when I was building the Shopify site and just creating a bunch of content and trying to get this out there, all I had in the background in my studio apartment was, like, future music videos. And he was literally, like, one of the first two to wear it, and he wore it in a music video. Came out with Money Baggio. And that, for me, was like the first moment where I was like, holy.

Like, that's crazy. It was in a music. It was in the music video.

It was in a music video.

Oh, my God.

It was epic. And, like, those pictures kind of, like, leaked. I want to say it was like November 2020, and then the video came out, I think, like a month later or something. So even when I started seeing those, like, leaked pictures, like, I had no idea it was going to be in a music video.

Yeah, it was. And I got to pause you there, like, as a brand owner. Right. Like, there's. I'm sure people listening that maybe have a brand, want to launch a brand. What does that do for you as a founder? But also from the, you know, the. The brand perspective of not only sales, but just the. The perception of a brand early on, like, that is a grand slam moment, especially for A brand that's just getting off the ground. Like, how did that feel in the moment? And how did you take that and channel it into other, you know, like, activations like that that you can't even predict at times. Right. Like, things like that just happen.

Yeah. I mean, that was four or five months into, like, after my first drop. And, like, I literally had no idea what I was doing. I was just selling houses. Like, literally no clue.

Yeah.

So, I mean, one. It's like, it's a motivational piece. We're like, okay, maybe I have something real here and. And just, like, a motivational piece to just keep moving forward and keep doing it. Obviously, as like, a fan of future and. And just hip hop music in general, like, it was insane to. To see and all the feedback and probably had some people being like, oh, that's who's gonna wear a Seagullman stable hat? Because I definitely had a lot of people like, who the gonna wear a Seagullman stable hat or sweatshirt when I first did this? And. And that was kind of like a nice way of me silent saying, like, that's who's going to do it. So definitely a big motivational piece, but someone like him probably gets thousands of pieces of clothing and hats or whatever sent to him on a weekly basis. So it's like, there's definitely some connection, and there's something real to the look and the aesthetic of the brand that's working. And there's been, like, like I said, like, blessed that we've had a lot of those moments in the last two years of different individuals wearing it at different amazing moments in cultural and culture. And I think, like, those cultural moments for us is. Is what's really helped build Siegelman Stable. I haven't spent any money. Wow. It's literally like a handful of seating to the right people that I think is either, again, inspirational or relatable. And that's kind of how we've grown this.

When you say seeding, what creates the perfect recipe for seeding as a brand? Because I'm thinking, right, if I wanted to one day seed a brand, what is your formula and how have you done it again, I know from a relationship standpoint, things are organic, and you can't ever predict something and have a perfect formula by any means. But what has your process been to seeding in a way that has led to, you know, the outcome that you have had?

Yeah. I can't give you all the magic, but there's definitely, like. I think there's definitely an art to it. I think relationship is number one. Right. The relationships that you have, whether it's them directly or homies or stylists or photographers, like, figure out a way to get in there, be strategic about it. Like I always say, influence the influencers.

Yeah.

It's like if two bodyguards of. Of future wear the hat and he thinks it's cool, he's gonna end up with one of those hats. Right. I'm not saying that's how I got. Got him, but, like, I think those moments and I think there's. There's a story that goes around of how Steph Curry ended up with Under Armour. And Under Armour seated a ton of Under Armour products to the guy that was in the locker next to Steph Curry when he was in the middle of Nike negotiations. And Steph was interested in what Under Armour was and what it looked like and what their products were from just seeing it.

Yeah.

And I think the story tells itself now. He's like the biggest athlete if. Or top two biggest athletes they've ever signed. Right. So I think just be super creative, super strategic. If you're not going to spend money on. On advertising, like, figure out a way to be really, really creative and how to get stuff in front of the right people that you think will help grow your brand because they'll either rock with you or support the brand. Like the brand story or just like how the stuff looks.

Absolutely. That's so epic to hear. I want to take a step back. Growing up, did you ever have the intention to start a business and start a brand, or what were the early days of your life, like high school and just the early days of the foundation of who you are?

Yeah. I mean, no, I never thought I would. I think my thought always was like, I'm going to take soccer. Playing soccer as far as I could. Grew up playing soccer my entire life. My dad played all through college. My mom worked in sports just until this last year. She was at ESPN ABC Sports for 45 years. Wow. And I was like, I'm always going to work in sports. And I interned for like, the New York Mets, Major League Soccer throughout college, like, during the summers. I played soccer all through college. So I never really thought that that was going to. This would happen and this is kind of what I would end up doing. But I think, like, kind of in that, like 2012 to like 2018 was like the hot phrase of entrepreneur and business owner and starter and startups and all those buzzwords. And I think that that sparked a lot of interest for me and just like, not having to follow that corporate structure of like, do you get a job from 8 to 5 and sit at a desk and when the bell rings at 5, like, you're out of there and you don't think about stuff when you leave and you got a 401k and you feel comfortable and like, all of those things are great. But I think that that's just like, not fully for me.

Yeah.

So I think that there's. That was probably. And I started like, I had a corporate job. I still have a corporate job, but very flexible clients, clearly, to have this going on as well. Yeah. So I think, like, times have really just changed, though. It's like people who like, let's take Pharrell, for example, right. Pharrell's now the creative director for. For Louis Vuitton men's. Pharrell is the creative director for doodles, the successful Web3 project. He is also a singer. He owns hotels. Like, you know what I mean? Like, now there's like ultra hyphenated job titles that are at so many different businesses. So I think that that's really a cool piece of like, what's the next. The next role, I guess, or the next phase of entrepreneurship.

I love that. You know, like, very well said. And bringing up Pharrell. Who are some of your inspirations from a design perspective or just creative perspective that have influenced you in your life? Right. That you bring up future, you bring up Pharrell. Are there any other characters or people that have stemmed. You've stemmed inspiration from over the years?

Totally. I think there's individuals, I think there's brands, and I think to like, pick and choose some things that you love from certain places and try and add them to other places that you pick and choose things that you love and bring them to. What works for you, I think is like the best part of creating something on your own. Even the way that we do our drops at one o' clock on Fridays is similar to how brands have done it in the past and do limited capsules and try and build hype and get resale, but from individuals. Like, I had a history with Virgil Abloh and he's obviously just from anyone who saw what he's built in terms of off white or working with. Yay. On the creative side of music and art just in general as like an overall entrepreneur and creative, probably up there as number one or so. But I think that there's many. There's so many bits and pieces from different individuals, it would be like impossible to lay them all out. And again, I think you get inspiration just from, like, brands and stuff that you see and, like, figure out a way to relate it back to what your true brand story is. I think it's so easy to start a brand now from, like, thin air and not having a real brand story, but I think having a real brand story and not is the difference maker of what brands will be around for more than a year or two or three or five. And that's what we're looking to try and do is be here for a long time. There's a Nas lyric in the 21 Savage song that I always say is, like, it's cool to be mainstream, but I'd rather be timeless. And I think that that's kind of the Siegelman stable mindset that we have at the moment, and that's kind of what we're looking for.

I love that. And, yeah, I find it so interesting, right. When you talk about brand story. As you said, like, a lot of brands come out of thin air. They don't have that foundation. It's maybe like an empty type of brand, and they maybe cultivate that over years. But thinking about Siegelman Stable, the brand itself has such a brand story that goes deep into the 80s. When you were launching the brand, what were some of the important aspects of encapsulating that brand story? And especially when you're talking with your mom, your dad, and make, you know, doing it the right way or you want to put off this energy that, you know, and I'd love to talk about that too. Like, when you were launching it, like, what did your family initially think about, you know, you doing this? As it was not a part of the business, it wasn't a part of the legacy. And I'd love to hear just the initial thoughts there, but then also, again, the, you know, the importance of encapsulating that brand story, because I think there's such an essence to it that you've captured that I think is super important.

Yeah, I think, like, even now, like, any capsule or collaboration that we do, we try and, like, bring it back to what the style and the aesthetic was when my dad first opened up his stable in. In the 80s, or we even bring it back further to, like, the 70s when he was involved with horse racing but didn't have his own stable yet to try and get that feel and aesthetic and. And full vibe out through our. Our collections. And then I think when I first started it, there was definitely some. Some people that I won't name that literally were like, who the is going to wear a Siegelman stable hat? And I think, like, quickly after they saw some people, like future Kendall Jenner, whoever, it was, like, kind of not doubt anymore. And. And I think now it's like, I might tell my parents or friends something that I have coming up as, like, a future project. And. And, like, you kind of see no doubt anymore. It's kind of like there's no. There's no. There's no tape or there's nothing too crazy that. That we can't do at this point. And I think that's super fun and super special. So I think when we first started, definitely doubters, but I think, like, that's also part of motivation. Right. Whoever it is, whether it's a family member or a friend or whatever. And I think that that's an amazing piece of it, and I hope I still have some, because it continues to motivate me to continue to want to do cooler and cooler stuff.

Absolutely. I got to ask, too. What led your dad to getting involved in, you know, horse racing? Like, it's. Yeah, it's such a cool story. Right. And I want to just kind of take a moment to dive way back and hear, you know, what led him to that, because, you know, that simple decision has created so much for not only you, but the culture and just everything that you're building today. So I'd love to hear a little bit about that.

Yeah, totally. I think so. He grew up on Long island, not too far outside the city, and there used to be a racetrack not too far from where he grew up from called Roosevelt Raceway. No longer exists there. But that was kind of his first entree into horse racing. He was brought in by some, I guess, like, childhood. Childhood mentor of his that was like, why don't you come just, like, start for me? And I'm sure he was just, like, picking up shit and raking, like, hay and a stall and just had, like, some infinity and attraction to that world. I don't. I think he, like, left for a certain period of time. He went to school to play soccer, and in Jacksonville, where he actually met my mom. But he always kind of stayed around horses. I think they, like, always tell me this, like, cute, romantic story that my. He, like, picked up my mom from some, like, English class or something on, like, a horse.

No way. What a legend.

So, like, he always stayed around, like, horses. And I guess, like, that was definitely a huge passion for him. And kudos to him. He just, like, followed his passion of really what he wanted to do after School and started doing it as like an assistant trainer for. For. For his mentor when he went back and then decided to. To open up his own racing stable in the 80s. So I think he just kind of followed his passion, and I think to do that in the 80s probably wasn't an easy decision for someone. Right. Because I think back then, totally what we were just talking about was, like, you kind of follow that structure of you get a job, you do this, you do that. And in a sense, he was an entrepreneur and doing his own thing kind of the way he. He wanted to do it.

I love that. Absolutely. Very appreciate you sharing that story there. When it comes to the brand today, what does the team look like?

The team looks like me and my girlfriend.

Wow. That is so epic.

Yeah. So she is a huge piece of this. She's been rocking with me since we started dating doing this. I definitely didn't want that to happen, and it definitely just happened.

Dude, I can relate. Oh, my God.

My girlfriend and I work together as well. That's awesome. Yeah. But literally, like, it wouldn't be at the level that we're at now without her. Like, her. Her hands in the. The creative, the aesthetic, the design. She has a background in fashion and just, like, has an eye for. For what's good. You know what I mean? So, like, I mean, it's the two of us. We do everything from fulfillment. I literally just got back from fulfilling boxes with her, and right after this, so awesome. Back in the office doing that. And that was something that we tried to. To get off our hands, and we did for a few months, and it was kind of a disaster with where we went. And we brought it back, and now it's better than ever. And it's just a building process. So the team small. That's how we've kept it.

That's so awesome.

And it's. It's been awesome. But I think we're. We're definitely at a point where it's like, we need to grow our business, and there's different ways to grow business and different theories behind it. And I just want to make sure whatever our next move is that everyone on board is totally in for the slow growth. That I want to continue wanting to stay true to our brand story, but also continue to give our community, our followers, our customer base, and everyone who's played a part in growing this business, from customer to whoever, helping me out with whatever, just the right things that we do going forward and not trying to do anything too fast and cut corners, because, like, I Said before, like trying to be timeless, not just mainstream. So it's like how can we continue to do what we're doing but obviously continue to grow as well.

So dude, I love that. And just hearing that, you know, you and your girlfriend working together and that's the foundation, like it's so tight knit and you guys control the narrative, right? Like when you have so many people doing different things, you, you can spread yourself thin and that brand story that as, as you've said is so important can just be diluted, right. If not having people that are really bought in and aligned. So that's so cool to hear. And I again and I briefly mentioned it, but my girlfriend and I, she was the COO of my last startup and like working together is such a, just a unique mentality that I had to grow into. But I've learned to love it and it's been incredible. How's that, how's that been for you as someone that's working with your partner?

Yeah, I mean I definitely learned to love it. We literally just took our first vacation in like a year that was like just us, but it's like pretty incredible that we get to like travel for work together, like just do it all together. And I think like we even say it all the time. It's like our parents grew up and our friends like around us who just work like nine to five jobs or whatever, like don't see their significant others a lot. Right. Like you go to an office, you come home and you have dinner, you hang out, you go to bed and you do it again. So it's like, it's definitely an amazing experience and like I said, I doubted it. Super heavy at first and did not want that to happen, but super glad that continues.

Yeah, I love that. So you're in New York full time still, right?

Yep.

In New York. Do you travel a lot for, for the business? I know we talked about events, but what does your schedule typically, typically look like day to day?

Yeah, I mean our office is pretty close to our apartment which we strategically set up that way. Yeah, hopefully we can keep it that way, but I think as we grow we might have to, to branch out a little bit more to get some more space. But yeah, I mean we travel a decent amount for, for projects to meet with manufacturers, for meetings, for potential upcoming projects. We're going to Sweden in a few months for another project. Before that we'll be going down to Florida for, for content for a project that comes out before that. So that feels kind of like it's never ending. But again, it's awesome. It's like you're traveling for work, but you're together. So it feels like it's not really for work, but it is for work. It's definitely a cool place in life that we're at right now to be able to do what we're doing.

That's so cool. When it comes to the social media aspect of the brand. How, how, how do you think about social for the brand? Obviously it's the epitome of getting the word out there in the marketing aspect. As you said, you guys don't pay for marketing. But how do you think about social and how do you guys run it from a high level brand perspective? If you were to give advice to other brands looking to, you know, maybe take something away from today's conversation that they can implement and, you know, if thinking about how they could just be better as a brand on social media, totally.

And we are not the best, like, we could, we could be so much better. Like, Instagram is our bread and butter. Instagram is where I built this, this company and the community that we have, like, tick tock. I wish I had the will, the way and the time to do it. I think that that is the next phase for us in getting someone in who can kind of run our social and, and create a bunch of content for us. But it's an ongoing conversation that we have on like a weekly basis on like what we can keep doing, what we could get better at. I think the one takeaway is like, I, I run our Instagram, I run our social. I will communicate with everyone who DMs. Me, I will have ongoing conversations for over a year with people I've never met who just love the brand or customers or have been a customer since day one or day 1,000. Yeah, I, we were like you said, like, we were in Phoenix and we were going to a different event and some dude ran up on us on the street and he's like, yo, are you Max? And he introduced himself and like, I went back and like, we've been having an ongoing conversation on Instagram for a year. Who he was in person? Yeah, no, nothing but like that. I think that's how you build a brand, how you build a community. And that's what customers want. They like, they want to feel like they're a part of something. And like, for sure, for Siegelman, stable, like, that is a huge piece for me and everyone who's bought a piece or hasn't and just follows us and talks to us or engages with us is definitely a part of the brand story and the community. So, like, that, for me, I think is the. Is the biggest thing that's.

No, that's so awesome to hear. And like, those moments, like, just they remind you of, like, hey, that's why you do what you do and you have that person that comes up to you and you're like, okay, this is. This works.

I think a year ago we had like 2000 followers.

Wow.

Not like we have a million followers now, but like, we had like 12,000 followers. And to me, like, that's perfect. I don't want a million followers tomorrow. Like, I want, like I said, I want to keep growing this slowly and like, for a reason and doing it the right way.

Yeah. And a couple things that stick out to me just in this conversation are this idea of what you said, slow growth, which I think is, you know, a lot of times you hear hypergrowth, hyper growth, fast growth, so many different business owners, but slow growth and this idea of timeless. And I think that's so important to the brand and kind of the, the vibe I'm getting from you as a founder as well. When you think about the future of the brand and taking that timeless, slow growth, methodical strategy to the brand, what does this year look like? What are you excited about? I should say, for the year ahead and just for the future of the brand.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest excitement for us is the opportunity to start doing our. Some of our own cut and sew pieces and, and branching out beyond things that we've put out before. I think we will maybe forever be known as, like, the horse hat brand, but, like, that's cool. I'll take it. No one, no one else seems to have that slogan attached to their brand, but I think it's definitely important to have other items that are super attractive and people want. So focusing on some of our own cut and sew stuff. I think we are definitely trying to be as, like, sustainable and responsible as possible as a, As a. As a luxury streetwear brand can. I don't think streetwear brands necessarily pay a lot of attention to sustainability. So we're. I think we're small enough or early enough where we can try to do the best we can. And so far we really have. My girlfriend plays a huge part in that. She's originally from Norway, so, like, their education on sustainability and the importance of it is like, far beyond mine. Growing up here and not being educated fully on everything and then I think just some of the Projects that we have coming up outside of just our own stuff. And the collaborations that we have are, like, like, so epic. Like our next one in April. I wish I can say what it is, but, like, I'm so pumped up for, like, not even just the clothes, like, the content that we're going to be able to create around it and this and aligning our story with the. The story of that individual and brand for me, is, like, so, so exciting and I think reaches again, like, any audience that ever existed on the face of earth because they can totally either know that story and also, like, learn something new about that story through our brand telling it.

I love that.

I'm definitely really tough to say without.

Saying, yeah, dude, I cannot wait to see what you guys are up to there. Two more questions before we wrap up. Max. Just as a founder and as someone that's building a brand, like, what. What are some of the core foundations of what's important to you when it comes to the brand, but also the mentality as a founder in terms of how you think and how you actually build the brand when it comes, just your everyday core values. As a founder, I should say, yeah.

Number one, stick to the brand story. Don't veer away from it. And then number two is I think we hit on a little bit, but, like, so many people from the outside, when you start getting some recognition or people start looking at you like you're doing something right, will have a lot of input and tell you what you should do, and you should totally listen and absorb it and not knock it down or be a naysayer, but definitely think hard and think twice. If they're so passionate about what they're saying and they think that they're so right, like, have they done it themselves and has it worked for them? I think a lot of people will say that they know the right thing to do, but maybe have not done it themselves. So maybe they don't really know. And we've fallen into, like, even just outsourcing fulfillment, which we. Which we touched on. Like, I fell into someone telling me that fast growth was the right next move and fulfillment was the first thing you got to get rid of. And, yeah, I moved too quick on it because I got excited about it. Right. But I think that was an amazing learning experience for us as a brand. It's like, okay, let's sit down for a second. Let's reflect on what just happened. Let's, like, take it for what it was. It was like a little bit of a speed bump in the road here. Like, it's not changing anything, but, like, how can we move forward and understand what we could do better and the next time someone approaches us with the quote unquote, next best idea of what we need to do, like, let's, let's think about it. Let's second guess it. Let's play it out in our heads or play it, play it out on paper before we just jump right into something. So I wouldn't change what we did. I'm. I'm just happy that we pulled out as fast as we did once we saw what was happening. Yeah. So I think those two things for me is stay true to the brand story and take everything everyone says to you with a grain of salt and question it a little bit. Not to quote Virgil again, but question everything and then just, just be able to. To keep your head down and being. And build what you believe is the right thing to build and, and do it your way, because your way is what's taking you this far. So keep doing that, but obviously keep absorbing what other people around you are telling you, either from their history and what they've done in the past or what they think and think on that.

I love that. Those are powerful, man. Max, thank you so much for coming on the show today. For those that aren't already following the brand or connected with you, where's the best place for everyone to do connect with you and follow the brand and stay updated with everything you guys have going on?

Yeah, definitely follow us on Instagram. Definitely our number one place for quickest updates at Siegelman Stable. And then just my personal Instagram is Max underscore Siegelman. So those are the best two to keep up.

I'll be sure to link those down below for everyone watching or listening. And again, Max, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Really appreciate your time and congrats on everything.

Appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Casey.