The Art of Evolution with Mike: A Deep Dive Into Independent Artistry, Mindfulness, and Change

Welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am with the man, Mike. Thank you so much for coming on the show, brother.

Of course. Thank you for coming, too.

Oh, my God, is this.

Do you guys do your show? Random places, you guys bop around?

Yeah, I'll come to people, bring the studio, bring the whole set up. It makes it more personal. It's fun facts, but thank you so much for having us here in your beautiful home today.

Hell, yeah. Welcome.

It's quite the vibe.

Yeah, we've been. We talked about it off screen a bit, I'm pretty sure, pretty open about this lifestyle choice that I've made. And it's like, more or less. I think I met you right before I moved from Los Angeles. I was here for about seven years, and we kind of. Kind of had an epiphany after traveling a little bit that I, you know, I showed you my setup down there. It's so small and mobile and then mobile, you know, so. And I work alone, so, you know, I just felt like I. I could spread my wings a little bit and just travel. So we. We've been all over the place. I'm living, like, technically, like a gypsy. We don't have a permanent address. We've been doing this for about two years, and we've been in Malibu for about three months or so.

Yeah.

But really enjoying it.

Yeah, it's so cool. And I'm sure we were, as you said, like, talking off camera, the inspiration that comes from the different surroundings for music. I mean, you just got off tour. I'd love to talk about that. I saw you on tour, the show in la. Crazy. That was the first time in one of your shows.

Yeah.

How was tour?

Really dope, man. You know, it's. That was like a kind of payoff tour for me. It's been a lot of. It's been just like a long build to where we are now. And it's been such a brick by brick kind of approach, which I think makes it sweeter, you know, but that. It was just. It was just. It was just really fucking dope, too. We had been touring for so long and always had a fairly successful, you know, generally speaking, always toured better or had more than what people would think, being an independent artist, you know what I mean? But the step forward that it took on this tour.

All right, we got Steven here as well. Yeah.

He's gonna vie for our attention the entire time. But the step forward that it took, that, you know, just felt so next level for us and really enjoyed it. Personally. I'm kind of pretty open about it too. Just going through a big change in, like, lifestyle and things. I'm interested in things I want to be doing, things, how I want to spend my time, how I want to feel. And so this was the first tour that I really wasn't like, aggressively drinking. Like, I used to go out every night. Like, we drink on stage. I still do. It's part of it, you know. Yeah, but there's a certain vibe. Yeah, absolutely. And like, I'm not a monk either, you know, like. But at the same time, just the abuse of it. And for over extended period of time, just realizing kind of, you know, steps that I needed to take and then, yeah, putting them into action while being on the road, not really kind of going down that it sucks you back in. It's really why a lot of artists struggle so much with health and mental health, because it's. It's this pretty low frequency, you know, situations. You're in a lot of alcohol, a lot of clubs, a lot of bar all the time. Time. Yeah, it's a certain energy. You're always surrounded. You never go anywhere without someone handing you a drink or join or, I mean, anything, you know. So I really actually enjoyed, you know, you could say I definitely enjoyed. And I lived that life, you know, Like, I. I felt like I squeezed all the juice I need. He's coming over to you now. I squeezed all the juice out of that for me. And it was just kind of. It was time to kind of take a different approach. And I. It made the tour just light years more enjoyable.

It must be so different.

Yeah, it really was. It really was. It was, you know, just. And then also, like, as I got into it, just realizing, like, wow, you know, I really am changing and I'm enjoying it, which. The hard part about change is really understanding the ebbs and flows of it and how lonely it can get, how scary you get fearful of. Am I losing myself to the changes? Oh, this is who I was.

Like, I feel like to cut you off there, like your career and the massive change you've made from, you know, what you're known as, you've. You've changed so much. Right. I think a lot of people listening are in business. Like, you're always adapting, but your identity, your brand, that was a massive change. And I know, I saw an interview, one of your favorite books, the seven Spiritual Laws of Success. That idea of detaching yourself, like, what were some of the challenges that you went through when going through that transition from Mike Stud.

Yeah, Mike you know, it. I kind of was, like, speaking to it a little bit, and I'd love to talk further about it. It's really. It's really like, when I say ebbs and flows, I really mean that. Like, the tide comes in and the tide comes out, and it's. And it's. There's times where you feel lonely. You question all your decisions. Like, all my boys are going to fucking Cabo this week. Why am I not? You know, I'm. I'm supposed to be living. This is what I wanted, you know, living the dream. You know, there's all these. All these psychological, you know, dialogue in your head about, you know, questioning your changes. Changes are usually met with real resistance. And I think only. Only the people that earn. Earn those changes really reap the benefits of them, you know, so you have to earn them and put yourself in uncomfortable situations. And it was uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable to say goodbye to the friends, people you always spent your time with because they're doing XYZ and you're trying to do abc. You know, it's like I. I just leaned more and more into detaching from, like, you know, that detachment law was, like, huge for me. Just detaching from results. I got the results I wanted once I detached, you know, detaching from my identity and my ego. This big. Rah, rah, you know, party guy, life for the party. Let's go to Mike's. Let's drink all night. You know, this whole identity that I relished in, I had my struggles, and I actually had. I had growing anxiety about it until I truly stepped up to the plate and addressed it. I knew I was making a lot of spiritual gains, a lot of gains as a person and as a man, but I still was limited and hitting a ceiling in certain aspects of my life that I was scared to let go. And it was the. It was the. Oh, Mike's the man, you know, yeah, this is what he does. We party and have fun and girls and, you know, that whole thing, really. I was kind of detaching from who I really believed I was supposed to be. And that can be painful, but, man, I'm. You know, I talk about it so much. My platforms changed to really, music and then self care, self development. I think when you talked about, like, branding, I never even thought about it this way. But I think Mike is. The whole culture of it is change. It's being okay with change and growing and. Yeah, and. And actually leaning into that. And that's how you become kind of Your fullest, you know, potential.

I find it so cool because, like, for context, I was talking to my brother earlier, and he was telling me, like, way back in the day, as Mike Stud, he went to one of your shows, and, like, he. He knew you back then, and he's like, oh, yeah, we met and bumped into each other years ago. And then, you know, we met in person back in 2020 through Dave Meltzer. And, like, me and the way I know you and your music as someone that's 22 is so different than, you know, maybe that first cohort of fans and people that came across your music. And now being on this side of it and then seeing what your past life was like, I can imagine how hard that transition was mentally. Right.

Yeah.

And that going even deeper into change, something that we have in common was sports and getting injured. And I know you played baseball. You got injured. That's what led to music for me. I played football in high school. I ended up getting diagnosed with. It was called inner spineous ligament damage. So I was in a neck brace for six months, like, super depressed. What age? Sixteen, Sophomore year of high school.

Crazy.

And went from like, oh, I want to play lacrosse and football and go to college, and then just completely being cut off from really, like, what that identity was. And that's what led to the podcast and social media and, like, really going down that whole lane and then, you know, reattaching myself to who that person would become. I want to talk about that sports, that transition in your life, because I think, you know, your idea of change, like, you've had so many moments like that that have defined you and helped you move into the person that you now are.

Man, it's. I actually. I actually had, like, a pretty hard stop. Entry into just truly understanding change. It was Larry King, actually, one of the last conversations he had. I just so happened to have it with him. His son was a fan, connected us, and he said, I put it in a song, the beginning of a song called Catalog Cabin. And it was actually at the end of it, and he just says, don't fear change, you know, And I don't know, it's just etched in my brain the way he said it. And it really did. It really did open my eyes to that. That was kind of the beginning. I literally, like, moved right soon after that. Like, had this whole identity surrounding, like, oh, I made it to Hollywood. Look, you know, I'm from Rhode Island.

Yeah.

Like, look at me. You know, look at my. My girlfriend and look at my friends and look how much fun we're having and you know, just realizing that I had kind of lost myself in that, you know. Thankfully I always had one foot grounded, always. But being out here for so long, it just stood. That move from LA to leave stood for so much more than just a move from la. It stood for change. And I knew the other. I didn't know how or what, but I knew the answers would come through that, you know, that, that ideal of just like being totally open to anything that happens, being, being open to change completely. And really the reason it struck me and, and change, it struck me so much because I, I really went into a self reflection, introspection time in my life. I spend a lot of time talking off camera, how much time I spend alone. Yeah, and this is something that's so different. I grew up in the baseball culture, the locker room, basketball. I was totally identify with being an athlete. And as I look back at my life for the first time, really, I realized that the only reason I've had success is because I've accepted change. Not that I necessarily was like thinking that way, but I accepted it and I fucking persevered and moved through it. Usually really if I look back at my life every time I move through it, you know, it gets me somewhere that I didn't even imagine, but I actually enjoy it more and more. And my life kind of stands for that for me in regards to just like, I mean if you knew me growing up, you know, I was no, like there was no music, there was no, you know, just the way it's shaken out has been such a rare kind of eye opening version to me. It's just like, man, you just have to go with the ebbs and flows of life and the sports, man, huge, huge, huge part of the sports, I guess culture that's in me through being, through working through that culture for so long, it bleeds through me still to this day on a core level of just like diligence, you know, like you have to show up for your teammates, got to show up for your coach and performance and competing, you know, know like I'm in such a peaceful spot, but I really feel like I, there's a level of competition that's in me just to just be the best I can be, you know, it's not, it's not really against anyone else at all. It's just like how far can I take this? You know, in a sense, not even the sense of financial success, but just life, freedom, you know, like how much can I change? How many things Can I see? And just looking back on my life was a huge thing. I mean, I preach it to my fans to the point where probably some fans are like, man, shut the fuck up. You know, like. Because I talk about change and. And journaling and meditation so much because it. I just know what it did to me. I used to be on the other side.

That's the crazy part that I see is like.

Yeah.

Knowing the, like the polar opposite of, you know, drinking all the time, not even being in the mindset of knowing what meditation is and how.

Yeah.

Important it is. Like, it's. I feel it's very hard for people to go from one end of the spectrum to someone that's now on your end, like, preaching it because it's impacted your life in that way.

Yeah, yeah. And preaching is the word, but it's really positive. But in a way. Like, I'm saying, look, I got no fucking idea, you know, I know that this stuff was fucking helpful for me. And I used to be the dude that really connects any of this.

When did you get into meditation and reading? Because, you know, when. As an artist and musician and so someone that's a rapper. Right. Like, what were some of the first books or practices that you picked up that led you down that path? Because, like, for me, at 16, it was that one thing that just was that tipping point that I didn't even realize it.

You're so fucking young. It makes me sick, the fact that you're this advanced and thinking about the things. I mean, seriously, like, the sky is the limit when you can understand these things. The earlier. I wish I did, you know, But I also believe in divine timing. And things happen when. When they should. When you're. When you're ready, you know, when. When you've etched your spot and you're ready for it to arrive. You know, for me, it was later. It was really. It was really like. I'm. I was kind of just a bulldog competitor about the music thing. I was a bulldog, like, pitcher. I was just like. I wasn't even technically sound, but I was really good, you know, like. And I just attacked hitters and I didn't care about mechanics. Like, most pictures are like, very. And I kind of run and gunned music the same way. I just put in a headlock and said, I'm going to figure this out. You know, in regards to the. Having the shift, I think it's generally growing up, like, I was very immature. You know, I lived a very. Athletes in general can be very immature because everything revolves around Your performance on a field, playing a fucking game.

Yeah.

You know, and it's like, you actually think that's the most important thing in.

The universe for sure, because it is.

In the moment, and it's really how you become great.

Yeah.

So being an athlete already set me in an immature space. You know, I was just very self indulged and I need to, you know, like, this is it. I'm going to the big leagues. Like, this is my, you know, it's very, very precious to the athlete. And to the point where you kind of. I don't know, I think there's. I think it breeds shortcomings in other aspects of your life. You lack balance. You know, I was one of those guys, I think. And as far as the music thing, like, it literally just felt like I was playing. I was in the minor leagues now. Baseball, trying to bully myself to the big leagues.

Yeah. In music, proverbially, yes.

Like, yeah, I got hurt, you know, I got hurt in college right before the draft. And then I would have went to the minor leagues and had to bully myself to the big leagues and really hustle and perform.

Yep.

Kind of took that same approach. I translated it right into music. I didn't.

I wasn't any, like, musical background. No family, friends, like, growing up.

So that's what I'm kind of saying. I headlocked it. Like, I, I just knew. I. I just had a feeling I could. And I guess recently I was home and my mom reminded me that I would go up when I was 10 years old. I had a little flower fort, and I would go up there and write raps.

No way.

When I was 10 years old and I had forgotten, you know, so something innately was in me. And I think that's kind of the whole thing. Like, me realizing that this is what I was supposed to do and then seeing how I got here.

Yeah.

Through a weird, very weird approach and just such a, you know, it really felt very random. Steve's out of here. He said this. So I've heard this enough. But, you know, you know, I'm saying, like, I, I. In, in. In the process of kind of evaluating and reflecting daily and meditation and journaling. I, like, have a lot of aha moments. I'm like, man, you know, it really. I don't even how I landed here to where I was actually supposed to be. I was 10, sneaking off to write raps, you know, but my whole identity was towards this baseball. I'm the, I'm the star athlete guy, you know, and through it's kind of like the Alchemist. You go on this long journey and you come right back to where you were, you know, like, right back to where you need to be.

Yeah.

Have you read the Alchemist?

I actually haven't. Yeah, it's on my bookshelf.

Yeah. I'm gonna. I'm not gonna ruin it for you, but really, it's. It's about a journey back to self, you know, and. And that's been an interesting. You know, again, like, I just. As I reflect more, I feel like it makes it more and more obvious that you just, you. You go with the ebbs and flows of life and you're open to change something.

You said that. I don't know if you know this, but we have in common is interviewing Larry King. So sick. I interviewed Larry back in 2019.

Wow.

And I saw the other day when you posted, it was his two year anniversary since he passed. Like, that interview for me was. That's monumental. Like the. The conversation.

You did that at 20?

I was 19. 19. Yeah.

Everyone was there.

No, I met Chance. Is that. Or do you feel.

I don't want to cut you off, but do you feel your age?

No.

Do you feel older?

I do. It's this polarizing gap. And. And I say this, and, you know, my girlfriend Jacqueline's here, right? Like, she's 29. I'm 22. There's an age gap, but I mentally feel.

Yeah.

So much older. But then if you are. You know. But when you actually think about the time of existing, like, I know that I've only been in this world for 22 years.

Parents.

Like, this is the reverse Uno swap. My mom, she, you know, I grew up in an environment. My mom and dad, they weren't entrepreneurial by any means. Small town in Virginia. My mom's been a special ed teacher for 12 years. Grew up babysitting my friends and I. My dad's worked at Philip Morris tobacco company for wow. Since I was born. So you're just.

You're not. You weren't even pushed into this?

No, it was the so crazy opposite. I was like the one of three brothers. Youngest that I was gonna go to UVA or JMU and go to college. Like, my brothers didn't go to college. I had like 4.0 GPA. Like, this was my path.

Wow.

And then just completely sophomore year of high school, just switch gears and was like, oh, I'm gonna graduate, move out. Like, do my thing, go down this business.

So you graduated early?

My senior year of high school, I took Three classes.

Wow.

So it was. I. I graduated. But the last, I was.

I was just always interested.

Yeah. And junior year of high school, I was coming out to LA every single month to do interviews, going to different events. I missed, like, 85 days of school junior year. And like, that sacrifice and commitment is just. It opened up.

What made you realize that that was more valuable than education? I'm not. Not saying it's more valuable to you, but knowing that you would take those risks, being that you're, quote, unquote, a great student.

Yeah.

And you're very. You know, that's your path, but you're still leaving and going and doing other things.

I think for me, it was growing up, I didn't really have many mentors. My mom and dad, they. They raised us in a beautiful environment. They're the most loving, kind people. But when it comes to life, mentors, business, what do you want to be? Who do you want to become? I. In high school, you know, surrounding yourself with people that are doing drugs and drinking alcohol every day and just have no idea what they want to do. I started reading these books, right? And they're talking about you are who you associate with and the value of your network and just, you know, the think and grow rich and just that mentality shift. That said, I need to get out of this environment and put myself in a place in an environment where I can meet new people, get new ideas, and that's what led me to just go in a lot of these different events really early on.

And you're a great fucking networker.

I mean, someone like Dave. Right. That's a prime example. I've known Dave since I was, like, 17 and, like, following his content and how, like, I call him, Right. Uncle Buddha. Right? Yeah, he's. He's so. He's such a philosopher and a mentor to me. Even before I met him, like, he was someone in my life that I followed him. Gary, Vee, all these guys. Gary's the reason I started the podcast when I was 16, and it was just like, on a pair of Apple headphones, walking around my room, like, all right, welcome to episode one. I have no idea what the show is about, and he just led me down that path. But coming full circle, like that conversation with Larry King and how going from a kid in my bedroom in Virginia, 16, having no idea what the world has to offer, and podcasting, to then three years later, like, being in Larry King's room in that presence, that was a monumental moment for me. And you posted today about Larry's again, like that moment and two years since he passed. What was that conversation like to you? And you know, what did you learn from Larry? Because he's someone that I, I think about a lot. I re watch my interview with him because he's had a profound impact on me and how I do interviews. When it comes to, you know, the quote he says, like, I've never learned anything while I was talking. It's like valuing listening like 10 times, 100 times more than talking and just leading with curiosity. Would love to hear what you've learned from Larry.

Yeah, you kind of know presence, you know, that staying curious. It's like kind of this thirst for knowledge and thirst for life, thirst for experience. I think that's where all the answers are for me. And I think for people on this similar feeling or journey, everyone who's had success, and not everyone can't say blanket statement, but they have these topsy turvy stories of how they got to where they are. And it's all about curiosity and like, can I do that? What would that be like? Or I'll be a musician or, you know, I'll do podcasts or I'll do, you know, it's just this willing, this willingness to dance with life. Like, you know, just dance whatever's coming. Be a good dance partner, you know, like, whatever's coming.

Yeah.

And Larry, that, that did a lot for me actually. I just personally, like, he, he told me he sent me a message after and I was pretty, yeah, I felt pretty validated by that experience, which is kind of a rare experience for me.

In what way did you feel validated by that experience?

Yeah, just, you know, you kind of hit. Hit the nail on the head. But just like, what, what it, how it made you feel in regards to like, you know, Larry King's just like a old celebrity legend. Just like, you know, I was like a kid seeing him on the TV all the time, you know, so it had that. When I said validated, it's just like, I don't know, I guess I actually kind of have did some inventory of myself and thought I was a little weird for the lack of validation that I seek in the sense of like or not seek. I guess I don't. I've had to put more and more effort on being present in what's happening and not just being like, yeah, yeah, cool, all right. Next thing, you know what I mean? Where. I don't know what that says about me or whatever, but I've thought about it a lot. But, but that One in particular stood out to me as a time I felt very validated by somebody that cool. That legendary coming into my house and we talked and we had a. We had a, you know, a great dialog. I remember I kind of go into these phases where I'm just stream of consciousness speaking. I'm not super, super present as I'm talking, if that makes any sense. I don't know, you probably can relate in some way, but I remember, like. Yeah, it just made me feel alive, you know, And I think that's kind of what we're looking for. Right? Experiences that just get us going and make us feel alive. And I remember feeling. Feeling a little nervous and coming in and then having a. Having a really great conversation and then just feeling validated from it that, like, man, you could. You never know. My podcast is called you never know. I mean, you. You never know what can happen.

Yeah.

And that was just an experience I'm so thankful for. Just. Yeah, just. Just really, like, I can't even quantify how much it did in regards to just me feeling like I was where I was supposed to be and doing what I'm supposed to be doing, you know?

That's so cool. It's. I've never met someone that has shared that experience.

Yeah. Me. Yeah.

It's crazy. When I was sitting with him and I want to ask you the same question.

Yeah.

I asked him, like, what do you want your legacy to be? And this has been coming through my mind a lot recently because I sat down with Robert Green. Are you familiar with your work?

Yeah, I saw that.

And, you know, he has this whole idea of confronting your mortality, like facing your death. And, you know, his books are very polarizing.

Yeah.

Do you ever think about your death or your legacy or, like, what comes to mind when you do think about.

Yeah, I do. I read a book called the Untethered Soul, you know, about. Yeah, you gotta have a guy that.

I'll type in Amazon right now.

Yeah, he'll read it. I have a. I just kind of. I don't know. I'm mainly gravitating and really connected to spiritual learning growth in that sense. And that book was super impactful on me just from a spiritual standpoint. And. And I think they say in so many words, like, death is life's greatest teacher. And, you know, Naval said something along the lines, like, you know, your life. Your. Your life starts when you realize you only have one or. I forget exactly how he put it, but it was kind of like that for me. Like, there was there's just so much presence that, that I want to feel with my days, you know, my day to day experience. I, I, I want to be present. I don't want them to fly by and they do, you know. But I do spend a lot of time with myself, silent, still, you know, and in a lot of those times I kind of, I don't know, I feel like through meditation I preach about it because I feel like I kind of arrived at a place where like, I don't know, I just believe, I believe this. We're such a bigger cop. We're a small cog in a huge system. And I don't believe that death is the end. I just think to our human development and our brain right now, you know, and, and our consciousness on earth. I think in our minds, in our culture, we believe, you know, look, you're in the ground. To us you're, you know, you're dead and gone. But for me, I just feel like I know I have like a knowing about it.

Yeah.

And really doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. It's just I believe it for sure. You know what I mean? So I believe there's more to, there's way more. I think it's an energy never dies. And, and, but I really do really, really do believe that like death is the greatest teacher in life. Because look man, you got, you got one, man, you know, for all we know, for at least this go of it, you know, So I wanna, I wanna make the most of it. I also, you know, try to balance, make sure I'm not just working, you know, Like I realized that, you know, I worked. I again kind of talking about how I didn't relish in things as much. Like I've been really trying to center myself and just being like, oh, this is great, you know what I mean?

Like, and just being like here in this environment with you. Right. Like we're in Malibu, beautiful scenery, and we started off the show. You're talking about like switching from Montana to Scottsdale to all these different places. How does your environment impact you and more importantly your music and what you put out in the world.

Big, big, big. Like I've made a huge shift in that direction of just like kind of this correlation to nature and music and what we're doing. Like my album artwork is usually that the sky, you know, or even song. It's just, there's just. You read a lot of these books, spiritual leaning books, and they talk about communion with nature and, and how important that is almost it's, it's, you know, to me, it's, it's a version of communing with God. It's a, it's a form of prayer. So is meditation. You know, you could, you could say God or universe, whatever, whatever your ego prefers, like my God or my universe or whatever, you know. But yeah, communing with nature is huge for me, man. Like, I don't need anything else. I'm here. I don't go to parties, I don't go to events, I don't drink. I just let at the ocean and make songs and chill and talk to my girl and, you know, I enjoy, enjoy things that I used to be. Be bored by. You know what I mean? Which I think is a great sign, you know, something that I, I really did a lot of work on myself to, to be present and be able to enjoy a sunset. And I mean, we stand around, wait for the sun to go down, like it's the headliners going on stage. You know what I mean?

Like, for sure.

I really, I really do. I really live that life. I really, really. With nature heavy. I go to the beach every day, so I choose these places for vibe switches, you know what I mean? I go to Montana. I'm in the middle of the fucking woods. A lot of them surround the idea of seclusion, much to the dismay of some of my roommates, my boys.

I want to.

Might be in the mix a little more, but, you know, I prefer seclusion. I think there's so much answers there in the. Just not being distracted, you know. So I try to, I try to live by that life. But I also, man, I'm really enjoying the, I guess the mundane stuff in life, like walking, going for walks and, you know, and all that type of. For real. So.

I love to hear that.

Yeah.

I want to ask you now because I think, you know, people listening and even myself at times, I, I completely agree with everything you're saying in terms of just enjoying the mundane. How do you balance that mentality while also being in, you know, ambitious individual, that's an entrepreneur that has businesses, that has. That's focused on growth in every aspect of life. Right. Tapping into that athlete mentality, it's, you know, that was hard for me at first of like when I'm meditating. Your mind at first is all over the place. You're thinking about business.

Is that business plans that I email that over?

Yeah. So how do you balance that in your life in terms of the business and moving forward and doing everything you have to do while Also being present, being calm, and enjoying life day by day.

It's kind of the, the game of life, what you're talking about. For me, for a lot of people, I think, I don't think culture, I think cultures. If you see it starting to shift a little towards balance. Like people are starting to really catch this wave. Like you can't scroll around and not run into someone talking about self care or meditation or. You know what I mean? So I think it's an important, it's such an important evolution because I'm reading this book Frequency right now. It's like we're in the industrial age, then we're in the information age, and now we need to shift to the intuition age for us to survive this crazy fucking world that we're living in. You know what I mean? There's so much radical change coming and it's very much so a place where so much information is at everyone's fingertips that it's extremely distracting and it's extremely hard to focus on your own goals and it's extremely hard to be happy.

You compare yourself? Yeah, crazy.

So balance. I mean, again, all my answers to every single question anyone ever asked me is in the spirituality of the things that I. Man, books were so big for me. Like I, I just so much, so much time I would spend bullshitting or drinking or talking to a bunch of people. I don't even remember what we're talking about. I'm like, re. You know, I'm reading books, I'm watching monologues from spiritual people and shit. And it just, for whatever reason, and I don't know, man, I just fuck with it. It moves, it moves me to a point where I, I'm like, I want more of this information. You know what I mean?

So how do you, how do you audit that on something like social, right? Like, it's so easy. I was reading this whole article recently about how Instagram can be Instagram specific. Specifically, like, can be such a toxic place. And for me, like when people. You always used to ask me that, especially like teachers and parents. I've always leaned into using social for the positive, right? So if I'm on social and I'm scrolling, I try to engage, I try to reach out, I try to tell someone, like, hope they're having a great day and like, be proactive instead of reactive and just consuming. But how do you balance that in your life when it comes to social and these things we talk about? Because, you know, I think it takes a lot of work to get to a Place where you aren't consumed by all the information, but actually get to focus like you do on producing and mastering your craft.

It's super challenging, man. It really is. It's probably why I choose to. My social presence is kind of pretty much leaning this way, like, talking about all this pretty, Pretty openly, just because I just think it's time for it. I know, I know it was time for me, you know, but to answer your question, again, all my answers are in the spirituality. Like, really, they're kind of guides to how to react to things and how to navigate things. And they're ancient teachings, but they work today. Like, I just love those universal truths and, And I don't know, I think navigating social media especially, I mean, I have compassion for people on the Internet. Like, I have compassion. I think I didn't have any compassion for a long time. I was very. Just, you know, everyone's living their own lives, but just. I. I don't know, I. I realized that judge. We kind of judge everything, right? Like, oh, I look at this guy's Instagram, really cool. I believe him, or him. I think he's full of. Or whatever, judging constantly, you know, I just kind of feel like I have compassion for people. If you're. If they're talking on the Internet, someone they don't know, they're probably down pretty bad, you know, I don't know anyone successful that spends their time doing that, but, like, less so successful and more happy. Like, if you're a happy person, you're not doing that. And you, you spoke to it. Like, you're navigating it properly, you're putting out good energy. And I, I used to, like, if you. Someone did a deep dive on my social media, they would see a radical change. Like, I used to. Someone said something to me in 2015 when I was like, you. You suck. I'll be like, what? Yo, I'm right here. Come fight me. Like. Like that for real?

Yeah. Do you ever find, like, yourself finding things like that in the past or people referencing them?

Yeah, I did more. So I don't know. I think it's. I think I'm in a sweet spot with fame and celebrity in general. Like, fame and celebrity is heavily diluted nowadays. Like, the celebrity. 20 years ago there was like, how many? 30.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, now there's 8 million. Like, the celebrities. The celebrities are everywhere. And for me, it's been nice because I. I've. I've never done a record deal. I've always. Celebrity is not my Thing really, you know what I mean? I'm not, I don't think it's positive, really. I want to leverage. I want to be as successful as possible. Back to your original question. Like, I do want to be. I do balance those all the time. I have ambitions and I want to, I want to make the most of my opportunities. But to me, being happy and peaceful every day is making the most of my opportunity to be alive. It's not just my opportunity to be successful, successful, you know what I mean? And usually for me, they go hand in hand. Me being more peaceful and calm has actually brought more success. I'm less rigid about it. Like, you know, you, you know, like I'm just so open about the way it unfolds, you know what I mean? I don't know, whatever. I make music, we put it out, make another one, put it out. I'm constantly just letting fly. But in regards to social media, man, you'll never see me. I don't even post anything negative. Like sometimes in podcasts there'll be where I could post where it would like we're kind of speaking on a subject that could be. It's not necessarily positive, you know, I mean, we're dissecting something or something comes up. I just made a decision a few years ago that I didn't even, I didn't want to acknowledge any negativity, you know, if it comes up organically and it, you know, but like I'm not, I'm not, I'm consciously making a choice to just not put that out there. I mean, you know, it's a time where everyone's opinion is out there and everyone feels like they need to be heard and I understand where they're coming from, you know, so I try to make sure if I'm putting something out.

There, you know, I feel that too. Like seeing the stuff you're putting out recently, like the sound bites and you see the beauty of nature. It's just the vibe and energy you put out is in my opinion, just phenomenal. And I want to talk about this because being at your show in LA and you know that translates off social media, right? It's, it's hard to do what you do. You're independent, you're packing venues that you have die hard fans. Like, I, I've never witnessed it the way I have with your crowd. Like genuinely, I was not only so happy for you, but just feeling that energy was so cool. And you know, I, I've been coming back to this quote a lot recently. Is, you know, success doesn't change you, it amplifies you. And I think that, you know, this, this one on one conversation we're having, the dialogue, the empathy, the just the true curiosity that you have in this conversation, asking me questions like that's amplified within your music. I can feel it.

But thank you.

What, of course. What do you feel has allowed you to create that type of environment and fan base? Because being independent, right, like you're doing it all, you're controlling the vibe, the energy, the, the expectation of what people want and what they get.

Yeah.

Like, what's your relationship been like with your fans and how have you cultivated that?

Man? Probably the, probably the most important part of what we've done from a business standpoint. It really is all. It really like the foundation it's built upon is. Is the, is the relationship I have with the fans and I. And, and like the least cheesy way of talking about fans and artists and every artist says my fans are the best. You know, I get it. I'm an independent. Like, especially. It's just, man, if they're not with it heavy and sharing it heavy, it's not growing because I'm not on any playlists, any radio, any talk show, any, you know, I mean, I'm pretty left of the industry, the entertainment industry, really. I'm just here doing this direct to consumer business. I look at it like that.

Absolutely.

You know, and, and a level of transparency throughout the entire thing. Like the rebrand of Mike, they were just like my entire financial legal team. People that work just be like, man, doesn't make sense. Like this is a business that although it's not vastly growing month by month, it's just like, you know, seven figure business, the mic stud. And things are still inclining like, like I just knew I had to change to be authentic, to be a. But I couldn't be Mike said anymore. I was. It wasn't. You know, and then taking the fans on that ride. We talked before we sat down about how I felt the podcast was so important for me in that period. And you asked me if I'm still doing it. And it's less, it's more so to the premium crowd now just because I think there's so many great dialogues out there. I don't need to put out conversations just to be like, hey, listen to me. You know, like if organic conversations come up and opportunities. Yeah. And I have things I want to say or share. Yeah. You know, but it really was a huge part of the people getting a window into who I am the fans that maybe had been listening for five, six years and winding off. Like how many people listen to somebody for 10 years? Yeah, like what you feel at that show, it's like people listening for seven, eight, nine, ten years. You know, that's one thing that really I'm probably most proud about from a business standpoint is just like commandeering the consumer base. Like, come with me, you know what I mean? Follow me on this journey. And it's not going to be exactly what you think it was going to be. It's not going to be tits and ass and, and rah rah party, you know, like, because that's really what it was. If you signed up for Mike Stud then, you know what I mean, to see where it is now and have so many of the people not the same time. But it's amazing how many, how many messages we get where it's like, man, I'm at the same spot. Like I'm growing up, I, you know.

Your fans are changing with you.

Yeah, yeah. And, and that's really what I'm trying to say about it all. It's like the answer is all in just being yourself and not hold. It's risky to rebrand. It's risky to start talking about spirituality. Like I'm a spiritual teacher when I'm, when I'm not, you know. And yeah, people can be like, oh man, make music and shut up, you know, Like, I just didn't care. I cared more to be authentic. And I also knew that sharing myself, who I am now would make a lot of sense with the music as the music shifted sonically and more on this easy listening, high vibrational music to a certain extent, or at least what I'm going for. You know what I mean?

How often are you making music? I mean, are you in the studio every day downstairs? Like, what is.

I wouldn't say every day. It's just like when I'm in these flows where I'm not, I'm not doing. My studio is right there. I'm always checking in on what I'm working on. I'm like a. I have a very rare approach to music and it's all turned into this stream of consciousness. I like get called in there, like, I don't know why. I'll just like walk in there and I'll open up this session I'm working on. I don't know, anywhere from five to 10 songs at a time.

Wow.

I don't, I'm not there. Like, let me write this song. And to completion here's what I want to say.

What is your process? Like, I'm not.

I get in front of a mic and I just, just. I'm. We make music beforehand. I have guys that send me music loops. I'll just get on. I'll get on a mic and just literally throw a paint against the wall. Vocally, melodically, I'm not even worried about. I mean, I can play you some songs that like, you could be a little confused. Like, are you saying something there or are you not? You know, like, it's all just stream of consciousness mumbles. I call it the portal. Like, I go into a portal and I'm just like, I'm not really present. I'm just kind of like what I was saying about talking even. I. I don't think about anything I'm gonna say. I don't think about anything I'm gonna do. Musically. That was a huge unlock for me.

Wow. So do you like, in terms of writing music, right? Is it all freestyle?

I've never. I don't write. I really. Any songs as Mike at all? Yeah. Wow. Yeah, no, I, I think it was 20. I think it was 2018 when this really shifted where I, I went from writing songs and like a lot more. Like, let me bring my backpack to the studio and fucking get my laptop and type lyrics up.

Yeah.

Which does not connect to me musically at all. It sounds crazy to me now.

Like, yeah, I'm curious because like, for me, it's something just resonated with me so, so hardcore. It's like this podcast, right? Like, I don't come with any questions. I don't, I don't have things down. And for me, I. And that's something that Larry King just really emphasized when talking to him in terms of his approach. And for me, the first 30 interviews, 50 interviews I did, I always tried to over prepare. I wanted to ask certain things and all these, it always led me to like going down a rabbit hole and then cutting it short and just not even being present. And it reminded me of like, why I do my podcast style is because it doesn't feel like I have to, as you said, like, put a backpack on and prepare for this interview and make it a five hour ordeal prior to it. It comes natural to me and I, I don't think I could do it any other way.

It's like, do you resonate with that 100 okay. Because I really do.

I feel that in the same way.

And, and Larry actually, we talked about it. He, He. We talked after and he, he had said, like, I think you. You're really good at this. Because he talked to me afterwards. We talked on the phone a few times, and he said, like, he did. He didn't prepare for any of his conversations, you know, And I. Yeah, it made me. I was just like, oh, you know, like, that's how I feel. I feel corny. Like, me. Let me research this guy. Oh, so you want. You weren't here. You know, he went to this school. Like, I don't give a fuck, man. You know, I actually like being. I don't know, kind of the approach to life. Right. Like, just dancing with. You're my dance partner right now. Wherever you're gonna take, where you're gonna take the conversation. I think that's. I think the best podcasters do that, you know, like, yeah, freestyle dance, you know, freestyle music. Just. That's how I. At least my favorite way operating. Not to say it's wrong to do it the other way. I think some people are phenomenal. Prepare.

Yeah.

You know, they prepare. Yeah, there is.

There's.

They really prepare and great at their job, you know.

Yeah.

But for me, I just operate from that space mainly in my life. Yeah.

Like, from the music standpoint, I didn't even know that. Just walk in there and just go, when for music? Because I've always been so curious. Right. Like, you hear I'm not in the music. Music business. Right. Like, when you. When you have. When you think about songs and your catalogs into the future, like, how many songs do you have prepared? How do you think about the future of music as. As an independent artist that, you know, you don't have your people calling you. Oh, you got six albums to put out in six years. Like, go, go, go. What is that process for you? And how do you think about the future of releasing your music?

Yeah. I mean, to perfect segue from the last thing we were talking about, because I'm. I'm literally like, I'm kind of shooting from the hip on it all. I have. There's some days I'll make four songs that end up all coming out. There's some days I'll make some ideas. As I get more and more dialed into my intuition. I really don't go in there unless I'm, like, kind of called in there. You know what I mean? I don't. I'm not like, oh, I'm gonna work today. You know, I mean, I just kind of drift over there and then, oh, I hear that, and then I'll just, you know, so I'm just kind of throwing pain around. And it's made it so seamless. I don't think about the future at all. Like, I don't in my life even. Like, I'm day to day. I don't even know where I'm living next. You know what I mean? Like, we're here for another month probably, and then we'll fucking go to my. I don't know, we're off somewhere, you know, but that unknown place for me, I'm a. I got you never know tattoo. It's the name of my podcast. Like, I just. I think there's so much value in the unknown when you're, like, stuck in a. Not a cycle, you know, but like, when they say the rat race, you're just operating in these same. Oh, I go here for my lunch. I go here. We drive here. We go to our one family vacation where, yeah, I go to work every day. I drive home this way. Like, I don't want to operate in that space at all. I think it's. I think it's not truly living. You know what I'm saying? And I know that's from a place of privilege. And there's people that have to punch the clock to do xyz or they're. What they're good at. Their gifts fall in that category of, like, hey, I'm a great mechanic, but I do have to go work at this garage, and I have to be there at this time. And I have a boss and a schedule, you know?

Yeah.

For me, my passions led me to somewhere where I'm, you know, so it's not a blanket statement, but I do feel like, again, that free flow of life, you know, is really where it's at for me. And then artistically or creatively, it's like a complete mirror to how I'm living. Do you get what I mean? Like, I don't think about. Usually I'll just be like, oh, I'm making a Valentine's Day little project, little album. And I am. And I just did it. And it's like, I'm independent. So if I wasn't independent, my career would look totally different in a bad way. Like, I. I have to be Running Gun. I have to be like, yo, I had this idea. Let's do it. I'm gonna get it in. We're gonna. I don't care if we're past the deadline, we'll get it in. I don't care if anyone gives it publicity. I know my fans are gonna fuck with it, and it will Grow and share at its own pace, whatever, you know, but I'm just letting it fly, you know, I have so much music to let fly and I'm going to.

Yeah. You know, being like independent in the, in the industry, did you ever think about like signing to a label or going down that path? And if so now that you said yeah, why didn't you? And what were some of those mental challenges you had to go through in terms of like staying independent?

Yeah. Few various rounds of frustration or various rounds of confusion throughout a long career of toggling between it and never deciding to. I won't take, I'm not going to sit here and take full credit because at certain points my independence felt forced. Meaning they weren't fucking with me, you know what I mean? They weren't that interested. Like even the deals they were offering, like, I'm not going to do that deal. Then there were some times where they recorded me pretty heavily and the money, when those types of things were like, you know, this is cool, this is great. But for me, man, like just what I was just saying, like knowing myself at least enough, this is before I was even really learned, trying to know myself, but knowing myself enough to say, man, I can't be on like your 10 month schedule for releases and I can't operate like this, you know.

Yeah.

Now there has been a most recent round where like, hey, we'll do it how you want, let's do it. Deal. You know, you can have creative control. Drop it however you want. I don't know, man, it's like a kind of like a priority. The same way you would prioritize what you want to do with your life. Like, I don't prioritize fame or celebrity really at all. Like, I do want to maximize my opportunity, but I'm more interested in the monetary gains than the attention. That's what it is. It's a commodity exchange. Hey, we're going to give you so much attention, you're going to be bombarded with attention that it will probably turn into you making a bunch more money for your namesake. You'll get this commercial, you'll be on this because you're so famous. So we made you famous, but we're going to take the lion's share of the income.

Yeah.

And that what trade off that commodity exchange is monetary gains versus attention, you know what I mean? And collateralize, more or less. They're collateralizing it, leveraging it. And I don't really want that. I don't want any of that attention. I like Living under the radar.

You know, throughout this whole conversation, I've felt such a polarizing towards the word presence. It just seems like you have such a presence on your life and what you desire and, you know, you'll meet people and you'll see them and they just. You can feel their stress. You can feel them out where they want to be. And I just feel like you're in a place in your life that, like, the energy you're putting off is so pure and so real. And I want you to know that. Thinking about the future of music, you know, you talked about Valentine's Day project. Anything that, you know, the fans, your community should get excited about moving into this year.

Yeah, it's an exciting time to be a Steve, I think for sure. Like, we call our fans Steve's, but it's. It's. I'm going to go. 23 has always been my number, my baseball number, my basketball number. Like, people call it my mic year for Jordan. Like to be like, oh, it's my mic here when I turn 23.

That's me this year. My Jordan year.

You're in your Jordan year?

Yeah.

So I'm simplifying it to my mic here. But this is just like the year where I. I'm passing on all touring. I'm doing festivals for the first time.

Which ones? Any that you can talk about.

Just one. Today was race.

Oh, wait, I saw you post that.

I'm gonna butcher the name. They're gonna hate me for this. Let me pull it up real quick.

No, I saw you post that.

Yeah, it just came out today. I don't even. I don't even know this, but festivals is like a huge space for me.

First time.

Yeah, I've never. I never got those looks. Just like kind of bullied our way into them. Not being able to ignore us. Just through. Just through ticket sales and faster horses in Brooklyn, Michigan.

Hey.

Yeah.

What is that one?

Zach Brown, Shania Twain, Luke.

Oh, my God. Dude, I'm gonna say this right now. I will be there.

Yeah.

When is it?

It's July 14th. 15, 16, 16th.

Oh, wow. I'll probably might be in Michigan. My birthday's on the 9th.

Yeah, come through. Yeah, I'm down.

Oh, yeah.

I'm down 100%.

The last year we did my birthday on the lake in Michigan. The best time, Jacqueline. They live on the most epic lake.

So amazing.

That's exciting. But touring, that's.

That's kind of the only touring I'm doing. I'm gonna do one big show. I'M dropping an album this year.

Okay.

The trilogy is the highs, the lows, the in betweens. So the next one will be one of those two. I haven't said which yet, but gonna come this year. But I. What I was trying to say was this will be my biggest output year as a musician.

Wow.

Meaning I'm gonna try to do 30 plus songs this calendar year.

Wow.

And probably try to match it again next year. But just fired up to like let it all fly. I've been working so much and so much is like in that 75 done range where I just, I can, I can really get on a roll here. And then I also have an album I've been carving out for a while. The highest came out over a year ago. So yeah, that's kind of, that's. That's the immediate plan. But man, I don't know. Life wise, I'm gonna keep. Keep flying. Flying by the wind, you know, flowing. Yeah. Keep flowing. See where we end up and just enjoying the travel aspects, you know.

Yeah. So I love that. Well, yeah. Last thing I want to ask you is you've had such a unique journey of as. As we talked about earlier, like just completely changing. Right. I think a lot of people in life, they'll have micro changes over a period of. Over the course of their life. And you know, looking back, they're like, oh my God, I've changed so much. You've had so many moments where you've had extreme change from identity, from sports to music to, you know, going from LA to Montana. These extreme differences. What advice would you give to yourself? If you were just starting over 18, 19, 20 years old, getting into your career, whether musician or business or either or. What advice would you give to yourself?

That's a good question. Trying to think of the most valuable one to a younger version. I think mainly my journey has been what it's been due to. A collaboration with my intuition. Let's call it just like letting my. Listening to myself and really just, just kind of that like listen to yourself. Don't make rash decisions. Make sure you're coming from. From a great place, which is part of the battle. When you're growing up, you don't. You might be coming from the wrong place with how you're seeing things. But for me, listening to yourself, there's a quote I'll leave you with. But it was, it's. I think Wayne Dyer it's like, you know, prayer is talking to God and intuition is God talking back or meditation is talking to the universe and Intuition is the universe talking back. And I just don't think like those gut feelings you have are accidents. You know what I mean? And everything that I've done to get here was kind of almost looks like an accident on paper, you know, they're not coincidences. And I guess that that would be my goal to a younger person trying to figure out where their path is or what to do with life. Listen to yourself and what does that mean? You know, Might look different for you than it did me. Yeah, but listen to yourself. And you know, that paired with having good intentions, these are all things that take time, you know, but having good intentions and not. Not trying to hurt anyone is really important, I think too.

Yeah.

You know, just absolutely having good intentions for your life and for yourself and never putting yourself over somebody else at someone else's cost, you know.

Totally.

Which can be challenging in itself, you know, at certain points. But it's a long winded answer.

That's my answer. Well, I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. We got a sunset to watch over here, everybody. Where's the best place where everyone can follow you and stay up to date with everything?

Yeah, I'm just Mike so I can actually spelled out so at J U S T M I K e on Instagram. I don't know anything else. Tick tock, tick tock. I think it's just Mike now written out. But my. I'd rather you listen to the music or the podcast. It's just I go by Mike M I K e period on. On Spotify or Apple. And we have our podcast all everywhere too.

But yeah, man, I'll link it all below. Thank you so much for coming to show today, bro.

Thank you, bro.

Cheers.