Tom Ward - How writing for Forbes led to interviewing the biggest influencers in the world

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No matter where you are in your career. Plus, Michigan offers a welcoming, beautiful, affordable and inclusive community for all. Live your best life you can in Michigan. Visit themichiganlife.org all right, what is going on, everyone? Casey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. Today we are joined by Tom Ward from the Tom Ward Show. Thanks so much for coming on, Tom.

Thank you. I'm happy to be here, man. I'm honored to be on your show. You've had so many great guests and me, you know, makes the cut. So I'm very happy.

Thank you, man. So I was just telling you beforehand, I came across your show and just you on social media from our good friend Michael Gruen, who we all love so much. And when I saw your show, I was just super impressed by not only the guests that you've had on, but like the type of questions you ask and how you get these different points out that sort of become these headlines in the media, quite frankly, when it comes to some of the guests you've had on. But for the people that may not know your show or what you do, I'd love for you to give them some context on when you started the show and what it means to you. Sure.

So I started the show about three years ago. I don't know if you want to hear the whole story, but I basically interview influencers. We could talk about the story, how I got here. It doesn't even make sense. I'm 43 years old. I have kids. You know, I'm not at these parties. I'm not hanging at the Hype House. It's kind of odd that I've been accepting this community, but basically I have big influencers, the biggest creators in the world. I've had on Addison Rae twice, David Dobrik. David's not a good guy to mention anymore. Emma Chamberlain, the Hype House people, Bryce hall, anyone you can think of has been on there.

Probably I Love that, man. And, you know, for me as well, and I totally relate to that when it comes to, like, I started my show three years ago, and there's only an art to interviewing, but it's a special thing. And unless you do it, I feel like you don't really understand the extent to what you can get out of it and some of the relationships or extracurricular things that come with it. Right. But when it comes to the show, I'd love to know how you stumbled upon it. I know you said you have a day job, which I'm excited to dive more into, and you've been in sales for over 15 years, which is incredible, but how did this show start? I know you said, you know, you have kids and now you're interviewing the top influencers. I just. I'm so fascinated by that because I think it's so unique and different, but at the end of the day, it's so cool that, you know, everyone's not only accepting you into the community, but you have a lot to offer to them as well.

It's so wild, and I'm so grateful, and I'll say this a million times that it doesn't make sense, because it really doesn't, you know, the fact that I'm kind of, you know, associated with these big creators, but how I stumble. I really stumbled into it. And also everything came from Forbes. So if you don't know, I write about influencer marketing for Forbes and how I started there. I'm a business major. I've been in sales my whole life. How do I end up with Forbes? Well, I got tired of just being on sales. I wanted to get more on the marketing side, but I didn't have any experience in marketing at all. You know, classes in college and stuff, but had no, like, real world experience. And I read this book called Reinventing youg and the whole Book. It's a good book. You should check it out. The whole thing's about, you can change your narrative at any time of your life. It doesn't matter. And she says, you know, if you want to get into an industry, you have to create evidence that you're an expert in that industry. I can't just say, hey, I'm Tom Ward, hip hop expert. They're gonna go, what the fuck do you know? You're old. What do you know about hip hop? But if I'm on blogs, if I'm interviewed on podcasts about hip hop, that's evidence that I actually know what I'm talking about. So I wanted to get into marketing. So I just started writing about marketing stuff. An editor from Forbes saw it, asked me to be a contributor to Forbes and I said, yeah, I had a couple articles go viral. Jessica Alba shared one on LinkedIn that got hundreds of thousands of views. I think that's the one he saw. And he said, hey, I want to be a contributor. And I didn't write for my high school paper. I didn't take any turn with him. Classes at college. I can write an 800 word article. I mean, it doesn't seem that hard.

Yeah. So when you started writing these articles about marketing, like, was it on your personal blog or where were you writing them?

So I started. I bought my domain, tomword.com which was not easy to buy, but actually ended up like a domain broker or something like that. Somebody bought it and, you know, I had to pay some guy in the Cayman Islands. So yeah, so I just wrote on the blog. I just. And it was clickbaity shit, like five marketing lessons you can learn from the Kardashians. Stuff like that that I knew would get lots of views.

What do you think caused it to get picked up by Jessica Alba or some of these viral hits? I know that I read that you interviewed Jake Paul early on and that was one of the articles that really took off. Maybe that was on Forbes. But before that, like, what do you think and what can people learn from that experience? Because I think me looking at blogging now, it's so crowded, right? Like so many people are writing blogs about marketing or influencers. How do you stand out and what did you do back then that gave you leverage?

That's a great question that no one's ever asked me. I disagree with you. I don't think people are blogging. You look at all these influencers and TikTok stars. They're not writing shit.

Not the stars, but like the media overall, you know, it's a crowded world.

True. But I would say, you know, most people aren't writing. I think it's a kind of a lost thing. People. It's all video, right? We're doing video on audio right now. I want to be on Clubhouse. I want to talk, I want to create content. I want. No one thinks about the written word. That's like way down here. It's like videos are here. Written stuff isn't even in the mix. So I think that's what makes you stand out. Being consistent does, you know, a lot of people go, oh, I'm going to start a blog. And they make, you know, they Start posting about it on Instagram and pictures of their fucking blog. You're annoyed with it and then three weeks later there's no more posts about it. You know, like what happened to their stupid blog. Yeah, you got to stay with it, I think. And then you've got to think. And this has helped with YouTube and I'm sure you do the same thing is you got to think like in YouTube the thumbnail is everything. They don't click on the thumbnail. They'll never see your video. With an article, it's all about the headline. You know, the article can be the greatest article in the world, but if it has a shitty headline, no one gets to read it. So who cares? You know, what does it matter? So I think just thinking backwards of kind of what'll get views, what people like. People like lists, bullet stuff, things like that. Easily digestible stuff they like.

I love that. And you know, when you started doing that, how were you balancing like, you know, focusing on writing blogs and becoming a writer for Forbes and then, you know, a full time job and having kids? Like when was the transition for you? Talking about like recreating that identity where you went all in on that and how were you thinking about it back then?

Man, you're good. You're a pretty good interviewer. I got to give you your props. So I work for a Fortune 200 company. I'm in sales. I don't say what company for other reasons, but so I'm busy, you know, I manage about $8 million in sales a year. I do so with two accounts. So it's a lot of stuff that keeps me busy.

Absolutely.

And I have two little kids, I've got a two year old daughter and a six year old daughter. So I got family stuff I have to do too. So I've worked every Saturday for the last three years, pretty much. Unless it's like a family party or something, I have to. My wife takes the kids up to grandma's house, they hang out for the day. Dad sits in my beautiful office here and I work, I'm writing, I'm editing video, I'm shooting content for TikTok or whatever and, and nights and morning. Sometimes I hate working in the morning, but if I have an article or something I really want to do, I wake up at 5:30 in the morning, do it before the kids, wake up before breakfast and stuff. So it's a grind.

I love that man. And I think it's something that so many people can learn from. Like even myself. I have a brother who has a five year old daughter. And you know, we talk about this concept of like not having time and then I see someone like you that's, you know, there's no excuses. It's the 5:30 waking up, it's the never going out on a Saturday. That is so cool because you're maximizing time at the end of the day. But I wanted to ask you this. Having kids that are not on social media yet, 2 and 6 in 10 years, when they're 16 and they can say, wow, my dad was interviewing the Addison Rae, which is now the Kardashians and all that stuff. Do you think about that as a dad that's raising kids that are gonna be using social media down the line and what they're gonna think about that?

I will in 10 years. Hopefully I won't be interviewing influencers anymore because it'll be kind of creepy. It's kind of creepy now, but it'll be even more weird. So hopefully I'll be interviewing other, you know, business people or something. I'll transition. But I can tell you this to like my 14 year old niece. I'm like the coolest guy in the world.

I am sure. That's so epic.

I got her, it was her birthday and she liked Addison Rae. So I was at the Hype house and I got all of them to say happy Birthday, MARLEY On a TikTok and I sent it to her so she was like the coolest girl in her school. Addison Rae's giving her a shout out. Like, who else can deliver that? You know what I mean? But for them, I don't know, I don't. My daughter doesn't get it yet. She watches YouTube and she knows dad has a YouTube channel and dad's mad when it doesn't get a lot of views.

Nice. I love that. Um, when you first started doing interviews specifically, you know, and people ask me this all the time and I'm curious to hear your thoughts. Like, what has been the key to getting these high profile influencers on their on your show? Because they're busy. You know, Addison's raised doing People magazine and doing GQ and all these different publications. Like, how have you been able to build this show and platform that attracts all of these top influencers?

Well, I have Forbes. Without Forbes, I wouldn't be able to get any of these people.

Absolutely.

At the end of the day, I've got a YouTube channel with 40,000 subscribers. Addison Rae's not coming on my show. Right. But Addison will sit down for Forbes. So I, My Pitch is easy, right? Hey, Addison. I want to I show off their business side. If you never watch my interviews, social media and YouTube is tricky because if I have an Addison Rae in front of me and I don't ask about Bryce Hall, I'm going to be fucking destroyed. So there's an element of tea I have to get for those TikTok clips. I'm always thinking content, right? Our interview. I'll get some tea. I can put that on Instagram and TikTok. That'll explode. But I want to know the business stuff behind her, too, which no one ever asks her about. So that's how I get all these guesses, because no one's asking Addison about, you know, what's the business behind a podcast that she's starting with her mom? How does it look? What numbers do you have to hit? What kind of money's in it? Those kind of things, you know, you're creating a brand. What does that look like, what a brand partnership look like? Do you still want to work with them or you want to build your own stuff? No one talks to them about that. Treats them like a real entrepreneur. And I'm super impressed with these kids, so I think that's what attracts them to me, because every other fucking interview they do is, okay, who's your celebrity crush? Tell me your favorite food. I watched one I just mentioned, I interviewed somebody yesterday. I watched an interview with Larray. You know Larray?

Yeah.

So I won't name the T site, but they go, okay, five questions with Larray. And they go, one of them was, name something. Tell us something that no one knows about you. And he goes, my dad's in jail, or my dad was in jail. And then the girl goes, what's your favorite food? No way. What about the dad? Why was he in jail? What did he do?

Is he still there?

How did that affect you? Like, I got a million questions. I think just talking like you do, having a normal conversation with somebody, what interview should be? I think.

No, 100%. I agree. And for me, too, I stopped writing questions down, like, after my 10th or 15th interview because it felt like that you kept bringing it to a different topic, and there was no depth in what they were previously talking about. But to your point, though, like having Forbes and writing for Forbes number one, that's extremely hard. And it's something that so many people not only wish they could do, but it's a privilege. And it's something that you have a power to bring quality content to readers on that platform. And I think just what I learned from that, and I'm sure the listeners do as well, is like, there is leverage in getting these guests. It's not something you're just, hey, I have a podcast or hey, like come on the show. Like, you have to really be critical about that. And for me, when it comes to how I think about that or how I've have these big guests on it, it gets easier over time, of course. But that initial leverage of having Forbes or, you know, starting my podcast when I was 17 and getting these guests on the show, it's. It's thinking about that when you're promoting content, especially when it comes to a podcast or an interview show. Let me take a step back though. If I was to ask you, like, you know, some of your favorite interviews and why, what would you say those guests would be?

Emma Chamberlain jumps out just because I got her right before she like really exploded. So I don't know, that was like, it was I think two, two years ago maybe.

Wow.

So before she like, you know, was in Italy walking runways in a fashion show, her own coffee. And before any of that stuff, and it stood out because I. We did it at her house. She had this little condo and she was 17. She opened the door, which is Emma.

That's so cool.

It was me, her and my camera guy. Yeah, I wanted. She was making coffee. I'm like, can you make me a coffee? You know, her famous iced coffee. So we're just drinking coffee and she was funny as hell and it was cool. You just saw her in an element. At the end of the day, it's like, wow, this is a 17 year old girl living by herself in LA. Like, forget all the other stuff, you know, like, that's pretty cool.

Absolutely. Very cool. When you think about content in a nutshell, I know that you do so well on YouTube and TikTok. How are you thinking about content strategy and how has it changed over time since you started?

I think no, it hasn't changed. I think I'm gonna give myself a pat on the back. Pat on the back. I think I do a great job of getting as much content out of an interview as possible. I think I do it better than anybody. Right. If you look, because I have Forbes too, which most people don't have. So I sit down with somebody for an hour. Boom. I got a Forbes article. Bam. I got a YouTube video. Bam. I got a podcast. I got clips for TikTok. Right when I'm making notes for my editor, I take, I do 10 clips I'm writing out like, you know, 3:15 to 3:30 is a TikTok clip. So make that a TikTok. Right. So I'm getting TikToks out of it. I take a clip and put it on my second channel, which I'm building, which is my clips channel, where I'll take a 4 minute, 5 minute best part of the interview, put it up there. And then I even do some for igtv, even though no one watches it. No one watches igtv, but I put it up anyway. So that's my content strategy is you can get a lot out of an interview. Out of a one hour interview, you should have way more than just the podcast or the video. You know, there's so much more you do with it.

So for every interview, do you that you do, does it convert into a Forbes article? Is that for every guest or is it. It all depends on, you know, submitting it. And if it gets approved in that.

Whole process, it depends on the guest. Initially, yeah, they would only come on if I gave them an article. But it's funny, after a while I would get PR people reaching out and pitching their guests just for the show.

Yeah.

Wow, that's cool. It's a pain in the ass writing an article every time. This is a lot better. I like this deal. So for the big ones, like Addison, yeah, of course you have to write an article, but yeah, a lot of those mid tier influencers, I don't have to write an article.

I love it. Very cool. When you're thinking about influencer marketing, obviously someone that writes about advertising and marketing, what do you think the future of influencer marketing looks like after speaking with all of the top influencers and how they're treating the industry?

I think I just talked about this yesterday. They're done making money for other people. So, you know, a year ago, two years ago, brand deals were 100% of their revenue. Right? YouTube, if you're listening, YouTube doesn't pay shit.

Yeah.

There's other ways to make money. You know, if you have a brand deal on a YouTube video, that's where you make money, right? But AdSense isn't paying you anything, so you get TikTok Creator Fund. That's not really paying. All these guys are making money on brand deals. You know when you see them on Instagram talking about bang energy, cha ching. That's where they're making money. But the smart ones are tired of making money for Bang energy. Why don't I just make my own energy drink and have My followers buy that. That's a lot better for me. So you see it, I think, shout out to Michael Gruen. I always give him a shout out. You look at what the Sway House guys are doing. They're crushing it. And I did a podcast with Griffin Johnson to it, which is funny, but he even said he goes, who knows how long my shelf life is? We're living in a cancel culture. We're kind of wild. I can get canceled tomorrow for something stupid I said or something I tweeted six months ago. And all this goes away. Then what? So they're planning for that where a lot of influencers still don't get it. They're going, okay, this money train just gonna last forever. But look at the TikTok stars from a year ago. A lot of them aren't around anymore. TikTok's even a shorter shelf life than YouTube. So I think that's the future of, you know, they're starting their own companies and their own brands and looking to be set up like an athlete. Right. Hey, I can only play till I'm 33 or whatever, so I need to start saving money and thinking about what am I gonna do for the rest of my life. I think that's kind of what you're looking at now.

100%. I love that. And I've had Josh and some of those guys on the show a couple times, and it's like just hearing them talk about it, you know, we're all like, pretty much the same age. I'm 20. I think Josh is 18, 19. And, like, seeing how they're thinking about it with, you know, such great management with Gruin and that whole, like, team, it's so fascinating to see how they're operating on such a high level and moving so fast. And, you know, it comes down to, like, they're so hot right now and you have to maximize it. And I think that any influencer can do that same approach on any scale. Right. Whether that's. You have a small brand deal and you want to keep it going to, you know, Josh doing a show with Presidente. Right. So it's like, there's so much to learn on how they move and applying that to your own life in a sense.

Absolutely. And great financial advice from those guys, too, just on that point.

Yeah.

You know, they're all about investing and stuff. When I was their age, I didn't think about anything other than going out, what I was going to do that weekend. I didn't think, like, guys, they're doing cool stuff.

Totally. When you think about a dream interview, does anyone come to mind that you are looking to get on your show in the next year? Or someone that's just like an ultimate, like, dream guest? And why Howard Stern?

Without question.

Love it.

Sure, your listeners are younger. They might not know who Howard Stern is.

They may know him.

He used to be a judge on America's Got Talent. They actually know him. But I'm from the east coast and he's been a radio personality for 30 plus years. And the beauty of Howard is, first, I think he's the greatest interviewer of all time. If, you know, if you just Google Howard Stern interviews on YouTube, you'll see these interviews where he's one of the few guys who will sit down with somebody in major media and podcast what we're doing. You know, we sit down for an hour, half hour, whatever. But he's one of the few, you know, you think late night shows, you got what, four minutes with a guest, maybe five minutes. Howard will sit down with somebody for an hour and a half and get into their childhood and what their motives were with this and talk about this mistake they made, and he gets them to really open up. So he's been my blueprint for how I interview people. Like, it's all from Howard and listen to him over the years and yeah, he would. I met him at AGT once, which was very cool. I have a picture with him, which was awesome. But he's my dream interview.

I love that he's. I would say that he's up on my list as well, for sure. Touching on that. What's, you know, your background, like, where did you grow up and what was your childhood like?

I'm from New Jersey, born and raised, just, you know, kind of suburban kid. Nothing that crazy exciting, you know, just played sports when I was a kid, fucked around. I've been sober for 16 years, so.

Wow. Congratulations. Thank you.

My teens and my twenties were complete disaster. I mean, awful fucked up. I mean, I laugh now, but we're not good times. And there's some mental health issues in there too. So I kind of look back. I'm actually going to New Jersey on vacation in a couple weeks. No, next month. And it's gonna be my first time back since I was 22.

Wow.

For me to go back. There's a lot of bad memories there too.

Yeah.

So I left right after college and kind of did geographics. I moved to Chicago, then moved to Milwaukee, then I ended up in Phoenix, and then I got married and ended up in la. And, and yeah, so it's gonna be. I don't know how I feel about going back.

It's.

It's gonna be different.

Wow. Do you still have family out there?

No, most people, my parents are in Chicago. Only person really in Jersey is my cousin who I'm really close with. She's there.

Got it. Okay. So my, actually my mom's from Jersey, I'm from Virginia, so east coast is in my blood for sure. Like, talking about mental health, I think that's so important, especially for young people that listen to this. Like, how did you transition from that? And I think, you know, nowadays it may be different because people have mental health issues due to social media and they're comparing themselves to others and all this type of stuff. But like, when you went through that phase of your life, how did you come out of it? And you know, what was that experience like?

I mean, how much time you got? I'll try to give you the condensed version of. So I dealt with depression was my thing my whole life, starting in my late teens. And it would just be dark, you know, I'd take naps during the day. I didn't realize I was depressed. But all those things, you know, lost interest in things, wanting to isolate all those things would just take over. And a lot of times in the winter when you would set the clocks back and it would be cold and get dark early too, that's kind of when it would start every year for me. But it would last throughout the year. And you know, no one I knew went to therapist when I was a kid. No one identified in my family or me or just it wasn't talked about like it is now mental health. And so I didn't really do anything about it. I used drugs and alcohol, I think, to cope and self medicate, looking back.

Yeah.

But when I got sober, you know, that depression and stuff was still there then I had to like deal with head on. I'm like, fuck, I gotta deal with this. So it was the worst. You know, I went to therapy and I'm actually pretty much done therapy now, but I went to therapy for, I don't know, seven years or something. But the worst part was the medication. So if you're listening and you have mental health issues and you're trying out medication and stuff, it's the fucking worst. But trust me, it does get better. The problem was with me, it was just depression. So they're trying, hey, let's try this antidepressant, let's try this one. And none are working. And Some are making me worse, so I've tried every one and we can't get it. So my therapist, after seeing her for two years, is my second therapist. She's awesome. She goes. She's reading this thing and she goes, I think you're bipolar, too. I think that's what it is. And she kind of read the thing, and basically it's like a milder version of being bipolar. You know, I don't have the super highs or the super lows, but it's kind of medium. And she goes, and check this out. Antidepressants don't work on that. It makes it worse, actually. I'm like, holy fuck. So I went to my psychiatrist and told him. And so they. We tried. There's new bipolar, two medications you can use, and without getting into it, but eventually I found kind of a cocktail that works for me. To live a normal life.

Yeah.

But it took a lot of work to get there. And if you're listening and you're dealing with this, I'm sorry, I wish I had a quick fix for you, but you have to put in. It's so hard when you're down and depressed to do anything because you're stuck in it. But it does get better. And I live normal life and I don't sleep during the day anymore, and I'm not down for extended periods of time. And it's just a good, good life. So I'm glad I went through it and came out of it.

I love that. I appreciate you sharing that, for sure. When you interview these influencers, especially the younger ones that are in their teens, do you notice that some of them. Do you guys talk about this when it comes to, like, mental health and social media and what that can do, or do you not notice that when it comes to the conversations that you're having with these young, famous, successful influencers?

Yeah, that's a great question. No, we've. I've talked about mental health with some of them, and there's one particular who's going through a lot of shit that I want to have on the show and talk about it. Yeah, more for those guys. Not so much like depression and those kind of things. More anxiety. Like, I talked to Ryan Garcia, the boxer.

Awesome.

Check out that interview. And he's big. He shares his experience with anxiety all the time. And we talked about that with other ones. It's more how to deal with hate. You know, how to. And how to have. And this is to the. You have a younger audience, to the young person listening, too. It's so hard not to get wrapped up in likes and base your self worth on social media. And I'm guilty of the same thing. If I post something and it doesn't get enough likes, I'm fucking in the dumps. Especially YouTube video. If I post a YouTube video, which takes time that, you know, set up an interview to prep for to edit and all this shit and it gets bad views, it's just devastating. So it's hard to not get wrapped up in that, especially as we're spending hours on TikTok every day. Literally, kids are spending hours on TikTok every day and Instagram and Snap and everything else. That's what we talk about is how to have your own worth outside of that. And so hard.

Yeah, no, how do you deal with that? Absolutely. I would say for me specifically, it's like I've always had this thesis and I kind of get it from Gary Vee. I would say when it comes to like not focusing on the numbers, but actually focusing on the content, when it comes to social media specifically. But at the end of the day, like if you're posting something and you were potentially used to getting some type of engagement and it drops, there's a natural feeling of loss. Right. And I think if you feel lost and you can get upset or be depressed, but I think I do very well at balancing that. And I always tell myself I'm like, I'm never trying to be the most famous influencer creator, but for me it's all about the relationships, like doing the podcast and having people on the show purely comes down to relationships and how I can better impact my business long term. So I think for me, I try to stay true to that at my core. And, and you know, if something goes on Worldstar and gets a million views or I post a YouTube video and gets 80, like, I have the same excitement towards it. And I think that's what I try to do and carry into how I produce content.

It's a healthy way to look at it.

No doubt, for sure. But Todd, a couple more questions before we wrap up. And when you think about your future of interviewing, when it comes to all the different opportunities, when it comes to potentially signing with a podcast network or doing an exclusive deal like Joe Rogan and Spotify, like, are these things you think about as someone that has a great interview show with amazing guests that you know is getting these headlines written about the show? I always love when you post about that as well. It's like when the interview gets picked up somewhere, but to My point, how are you thinking about the future of, like, broadcasting and interviewing long term?

It's. So I'm signed. Shout out to my manager, Jerry. So I have a manager. He's great. We did an interview together yesterday. He popped in. Kind of my strategy going forward is, yeah, I want to do this full time. And it's tough. It's a grind out there. You may see if you're listening. Oh, this guy, he's got thousands of followers and he gets these big guests. I'm sure he's making tons of money. It's a grind. And, you know, it's a grind. It's a side thing for now, but I have brand deals and when you get brand deals, it's a job. Right. I have certain numbers that hit and certain expectations, and my job is to get, you know, whatever the brand wants. I'm trying to deliver that too. So, yeah, so, yeah, my goal is to have a show with, you know, one brand deal or whether it's a Spotify deal with Joe Rogan, where that's where it is every week. And that's what we do. Yeah, so that's the goal. And to have more diverse guests on too, not just influencers. Like yesterday I interviewed Swanset. Do you know Swanset?

Yeah, she's at Clubhouse. And I saw that. You guys did a Clubhouse interview, right?

He's like the queen of Clubhouse.

Oh, yeah, she's amazing.

That's different than, you know, interviewing one of the Sway guys. So I'm also trying to switch it up, staying digital, but try to, you know, bring different people on too.

Love that. Well, Tom, just to before we wrap up, where's the best place for everyone to follow you? Stay connected with your content, watch the interviews, et cetera.

Yeah, just the Tom ward show on YouTube. Check me out on Instagram and TikTok. Tom Ward official. I'm verified on TikTok, which is very cool. Now shout out to TikTok and then Twitter. I have a weird handle. It's Mott Draw, which is Tom Ward backwards one.

I'll link it down below.

Yeah, yeah, I'll pop up. So check out the channel and you can search on any podcast platform to the shows on there through the Tom Ward Show. Check it out.

Awesome. Well, Tom, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate it.

Thanks, bro. Thanks for having me, man. Monarch Legacy of Monsters An Apple original series the world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on November 17th. This place, it's not ours. Believe me. The most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything. I promise.

Oh, my God. Go. Go, Go.

Legacy of Monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV Plus.