Travis Chappell - Founder of Guestio Speaks on the Secrets to Connecting with the Top 1%

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All right, welcome back to the Casey Adams Show. Today I am joined by my good friend Travis Chappell. We are here at the Blue Wire studios in Las Vegas. And check out Travis. Thanks so much. Coming on.

Yeah, of course, dude. Thanks for having me.

Of course. It's been so cool to not only build with you over the years, but just to see what you're building in the podcast space with Guestio. It's been super exciting. But again, I appreciate you coming out. I know we're in your homeland in Las Vegas.

Yes, sir.

So I appreciate you coming out.

How to make an appearance, man.

Of course, of course. So to dive into it, I mean, dude, how are you? How's Guestio? And then, of course, for everyone that's listening, would love to give you a platform to just, you know, explain what Guestio is.

Sure, yeah. So Gusteo kind of started out as. And you know this because we. We pretty much started our companies around the same time, and you actually diverted attention away from a project that was very similar to I was working on. So you understand, probably more than most, the need for something like this that's out there. And so the first initial idea for Gestio was kind of like Cameo, but for booking professionals for appearances, whether it be like a spot on a podcast interview or a virtual event stage or something like that. And after we launched the platform, we were just doing the same thing that you're doing, right? Collecting feedback, getting users, you know, fixing stuff that's not working, and really just trying to craft and find that product market fit. And we really came to the conclusion that more people wanted to use the platform to get booked on shows rather than shows, wanted to use it to book guests. And so we kind of pivoted towards the end of last year and end of 2021 to essentially turning it into a platform that's a marketplace full of content platforms, YouTube channels or podcasts or blogs or newsletters that have available inventory and want to fill up those guest spots, but they actually want to make the money themselves instead of, you know, a booking agency stepping in and taking the money in the middle and then paying the podcaster zero of it. What Guestio allows you to do is if you have guest spots or, you know, available on whatever platform that you have, you can charge directly for those guest spots to the people who want to get booked on your show if they're trying to promote something. So we're kind of essentially using the software to cut out the middleman. But like, at the same time, we work with a lot of podcast booking agencies because they love us.

Yeah.

It makes their job that much easier as well. So we're really just like trying to improve the process for all parties involved in these kind of, like, content tours. Like, a lot of people look at it like pr. I tend to look at it almost more like a marketing campaign rather than pr, because it doesn't just bring you credibility, it brings you actual, like, traffic to your. To your site or to your product or to your service. And so I look at it more like a platform marketing campaign. And Guestio is kind of the engine that allows us to drive that.

Very cool, man. So you guys, remind me, when did you launch officially, dude?

Our official launch was probably like December or January. Like December 2020. January 2021.

Got it. Yeah. I remember as you hit it right in the nail, like, I've seen your journey so much in terms of like the Guestio platform evolving. And then I know, like, even before media gets what I was working on, podcast related, like, we've seen the same. We see the same problem in the marketplace and it's. It's so cool to see what you guys are doing. How's the podcast going?

It's good, dude.

Yeah.

I mean, the podcast is still the, you know, like, it was a catalyst for basically everything that I do now, you know, so we still put out. Put out a ton of content over the podcast called build your network. And then we actually started a new show called figuring it out.

Okay.

And it's with my producer who's helped me produce basically all the content that I do. He runs all my social and stuff, so he's one of the co hosts. And then my wife is actually a co host on that show.

I've seen that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Very cool.

That one's been a lot of fun. It allows us to talk to kind of a more wide array of individuals. It's more kind of almost like a life philosophy podcast. It's just about like, we're just all figuring it out. Like, we're not coming from the place of we have all the answers and we're trying to teach you. It's more like we're all answer. We're all asking the right questions together about, you know, parenting and relationships and business and personal finance and sex and like all the things that most people are not willing to talk about. We try to bring on people who have seemingly done a good job at those things and ask them the right questions about it. So that's been kind of more of like a fun project. It's like, yeah, because podcast before was always like, more business. And don't be wrong, I love talking about business, obviously. But this one's been kind of cool because, like, we'll have people out to the house and we built like a studio out of a apartment that's attached to our house. And so we'll bring people out and we'll just kind of chill on the couch, glass of wine, glass of whiskey, a beer or something like that and just kind of like talk and it's way more relaxed and just a much different atmosphere.

Yeah, it's so funny because I, I always tell people, like, I love doing the interviews, but on the same token, like, I've been on shows that are very, like, group conversation oriented.

Yeah.

And it's so much fun. Like, that atmosphere and that level of just conversation. It's different than like a one on one, which is. I'm sure that's a lot of fun just having that as a separate show as well.

It's been cool, like, seeing some of the feedback on it because, you know, you never really know what, how people are going to react until you just launch it and see. And so before it was always about like, oh, Travis gives good advice or whatever, or ask good questions and practical, you know, business tips or whatever. On my other show and this one, it's been like we're learning a lot. But I also, like, there's. I was reading through some reviews today and people were just like, I really like the comedy aspect or I really like that it was funny. I really like. You know what I mean? So it's been kind of a cool angle to approach it from where we're just kind of more relaxed. It's a little bit of entertainment intertwined with still having fruitful conversations around difficult topics that are just hard to navigate in life. And for some reason nobody talks about it.

Absolutely. Very cool. Well, I'd love to pivot and just talk about just podcasting. Overall, you know, you're not only an expert in that space, you're building in it. You, in terms of software, you have a couple shows. You know, when I first got into podcasting four and a half years ago in 2017, the space was so different. Right. When it comes to the shows, especially now, the tools that are out there, I'd love to just get your thoughts on, you know, where is the space now? How do you see it evolving and you know, what have you learned through building in the podcast space itself?

I've learned that I'm more bullish on podcasting even than I was back in, when I started in, which was 2017 as well. I the, the more that I get into the space and the more that we continue to see other forms of social media evolve, the more, the more bullish I am on the long tail of podcasting because it truly is the last platform that's geared for long term, like long form content consumption. As of October, November of 2021, Tick Tock took over as the most watch hours of any social platform on the planet, even including YouTube, which was a crazy thing to me because they were. YouTube has videos that are like 12 hours that people just leave on autoplay in the background because it's like white noise or like music playlist or something like that, you know what I mean? Or Coco Melon for your kids. Like, Lord knows I've spent hundreds of hours watching Cocomelon and and so like to have a platform like Tick Tock come out with these like 60 second videos. And their watch hours overtook YouTube which has been around for like over a decade by that point. It was, it was a crazy, crazy stat to me. And that's why you see now Instagram has reels and if you post a video next to a reel, the video will get like one tenth of the engagement the reel will get because they don't care about the videos anymore. They want you to be doing reels. Same with Facebook, same with YouTube Shorts. You post YouTube Shorts is crushing. YouTube Shorts gets way more traction than an actual YouTube video. Like, everybody's moving to short form, short form, short form because our attention span are so horribly low. And so podcasting is truly like the last platform that's geared for long form content consumption. Yeah, so like, if you're still listening to this episode of this show, like, you've already spent more time with me and Casey than you would by consuming like a month's worth of Instagram content. You know what I mean? So like, I mean, if you're Trying to build trust with an audience. Like, to me, that's still. There's still no better way to do it. Yeah. Radio is going to continue to. To die further and further, just the more people become aware of podcasting. Since we started in podcast in 2017, podcast audiences have doubled in listenership. We'll probably be up to a billion podcast listeners in the next two years or so. So the. The amount of people that are listening are going to. It's going to continue to grow. It's just a better version of radio. It's literally just a better version of radio. Like, why would anybody listen to FM radio anymore? If you listen to a podcast, it's. It's like all the people that are on FM radio or XM radio also have podcasts. Like, you want to listen to the Breakfast Club? Cool. Do it on a podcast. Yeah, it's on demand. Why would you not want to be able to skip through stuff or move over or, like, pick something else instead? Like, well, I'm on the station, so I guess I'm in for everything. The commercials and the static and, like, it's just like. Yeah, it's just a better way to do it, you know, so, like, especially as, like, older generations stop consuming content, younger generations keep coming up. I just. I just. I'm very. Still very, very much bullish on where podcasting's headed.

Absolutely. I'd love to get your thoughts on. You know, there's so many independent podcasters like you and I, where, you know, we started with our own shows. We're interviewing. People are just talking about a topic. And on the flip side, there's of course, like, platforms like Blue Wire or different podcast networks that own their shows. They have all these incredible talent that they're bringing on. How do you look at the landscape there when it comes to the dominance of the networks or whether that's like the big CNNs of the world, whatever it may be. Back then when I launched my show, I remember I used to be like, top 20, top 50 charts. There was not many shows out there, so not so easy, but easier to rank nowadays, like, the competition, when it comes to great content out there, it's challenging, you know, and I think I. I've felt that firsthand. I'm sure you have as well, where just, like, seeing the landscape, it's on one end. It's so cool to see because, you know, the industry has grown so much since 2017, 2018. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. When it just comes to how you Think about the idea of rankings and, you know, getting your content out there overall.

Yeah, I, I, I tend to not be a complainer on those things because it's only good for the user experience. And that's how, that's how the market works.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, I know a bunch of independent kind of podcasters that get all upset about like, well, all these people come in with all this money and it's just like, oh, so you're gonna whine about them forcing you to put out better quality content and provide a better experience for the people that listen to your show. Like, that makes you upset. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, I get it. Because it kind of sucks if you're used to getting all this free traffic from like, ranking and now you can't rank, it's more difficult. Like, I get it.

I'm on the same boat as you.

Yeah. But at time, like, the end goal is a better user experience is a better listener experience. And so if they're providing that by syndicating these, these shows and sourcing talent, I mean more power to them. You know what I mean? And like, you can either like, whine about it or you can make your content better. You can learn how to market your show. You can like, learn new skill sets to, to increase the odds of you being one of the people that maybe gets a brand deal or maybe gets a network to bring you on or something like that. Like, they're like, that's the cool thing about it is, like, these networks, they're not, they're not, they know that just because somebody's famous, that does not mean that their show is going to be good. Yeah. So they're more interested in finding people who already have audiences built in, like you or me, and saying, like, hey, how about you just come onto our network and we'll take a lot of the heavy lifting off your plate and give you, like, cool studio setups and things like that in exchange for the listeners that you put be able to build for the last few years. And it puts you in a position to succeed a little bit easier.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, that kind of stuff to me is only good for the industry.

Same hundred percent. I'd love to ask you, you know, if there's someone out there that's wanting to start a podcast. I know I talk about this a lot. What's your like, go to podcast checklist? Right. Like, if you were to restart and you wanted to start a show today and have the, you know, High chance of success. What would your cadence be? How would you think about launching a show? And just what would be your checklist?

Sure. And I mean, this super fresh in my mind, because Figuring it out just launched like a month ago.

Okay. Yeah.

So we actually just just went through a process very similar to this and similar to what we were saying before we hit the record button. Like, I've been focusing so much on Guestio that I wasn't able to put as much time and thought into the new podcast as I was the old one. So, like, my producer and stuff kind of handled the new one a little bit more. But what I. What I always think about is, first of all, what's the goal of the show? What are you trying to do with it? Is it downloads? Is it credibility? Is it authority? Is it relationships? Figure that out first because that'll depict everything else. Number two is who's the. What's the market? Who. What's the niche?

Who.

What are you going to be talking about? Who are you going to be talking to? If you have zero authority, influence, or anything, that's the first thing you've ever done. Picking a niche is super, super, super important because nobody's just going to listen to the show because it's you.

Right.

Like, everybody just said, like, so many people, bro, that I talked to about podcasting will tell me the same exact thing, which is like, I just want to kind of be like Joe Rogan. Like, everybody says that to me. You know, it's just like, well, it only worked out for Joe Rogan because he's Joe Rogan. Because, first of all, he started 12, 13 years ago when there was, like, to your point, no podcast in existence. But he was also a super interesting person with. That had lived a super interesting, interesting life, had done hours and hours and hours of standup comedy on stages, knew how to communicate with people, had interesting friends they could have interesting conversations with. Like, you're not Joe Rogan.

Yeah.

And you're not Joe Rogan now or back then. Like, even if you started it back then, you still wouldn't be Joe Rogan. But if you did back then, maybe you had a chance because there were just no shows out there.

Yeah.

So now with the saturation of shows, like, you. You gotta pick the. You gotta find the blue ocean for yourself. So what's the goal? What's the niche? What's the topic? Like, what are you talking about? And then. And then if you, if you want, like a. A good launch, I'm always thinking about, let's get five to seven episodes in the queue ready to go before. Before we hit the launch button. Really? I want two months of content. So if you're releasing one a week, that's eight episodes plus three to five at launch, you're looking at like 12 to 15 episodes in the can before you hit the launch button. And so we, we launch with that. And then we always, like. So for this, this past launch, we did a release every single day for the first two full weeks of the show because algorithms, like an increased number of content. This is how we were able to get onto the top philosophy charts.

Love that.

With the new show is that we released. Yeah. Thank you, man. And you know how difficult it is. And more like, like you said a few years ago, it was really easy. Like almost any. Like, if you just get 20 reviews on your show in, in like a day, it's like, oh, top charts.

Yeah.

New noteworthy. Now. Now it's way more difficult. And so we're still able to get onto the top philosophy charts because I, I think it's because we launched an episode every single day and we had a marketing budget going into it. Yeah. And that's really, that's really the, the, you know, the quote, unquote cheat code, if you will. It's just like if you, if you don't have any existing audience anywhere and you don't have any money to market the show, then the odds of it gaining a lot of traction is really, really, really, really low. Especially on a podcast. Because it's not a search directory. It's not YouTube. YouTube's a search engine. Right. Like, it's the number two search engine ran by the number one search engine. Podcasting is not that way.

Yeah.

You know, if you do not share and market, probably nobody's going to ever find the show. And that's why you have. The majority of podcasts will never make it past 100 downloads an episode. And that's why. Because they think that they can just, like, put out content, people are just going to find it. And it is just. It's way more likely to happen on TikTok or YouTube or some of these other platforms that are geared for discovery. Podcasting is not geared for discovery. It's geared for, like, furthering and deepening relationships. Not necessarily for, like, the initial discovery part of the process.

Love that.

So, yeah, have a bank of episodes. If you can get really great guests, that helps. Like, we launched the show with Shaquille o' Neal as a guest.

Yeah, as a guest.

Like, if you can have a Good lineup of people that other people might know, like, and trust with. They don't know you at all.

Yeah.

That obviously is super helpful. And then you couple that with a good marketing campaign, and that's how, you know, we launched our last show and got up on the top charts. I think we'll pass 50,000 downloads in our first month on that show.

Congrats. That's so epic.

Yeah.

So that's a solid checklist. That's if people are listening. Like, listen to that one more time. Like that. That's the key.

Yeah. Yeah.

Very cool.

You got to be willing to plan it out.

Yeah. You know, and that takes a lot of time. And I think. Yeah, it's like that time and commitment is what is the real make or break. Yeah.

You treat it like I tell people all the time. Like, you treat your podcast like a hobby. It'll pay you like a hobby. If you don't like a business, it'll pay you like a business. So how would you launch a business? How would you market a business? How would you. How would you set yourself up for success if you're putting out a new business? You know what I mean?

Love that. Love to talk about guestio. I think that I feel like we can relate on so much because we both have tech companies. We're not, you know, developers ourselves. We're building teams. We're navigating that water. Would love to just hear about your experience with, you know, guestio since launch and, you know, for anyone that's out there that's, you know, launching a company, whether that's tech or not, I'm sure I can learn a lot from you as well. So I would love to just understand from launch to now the lessons learned, the, you know, the challenges as well as the successes. And obviously for everyone listening, you know, we'll make sure they check it out.

Yeah. I mean, dude, it's been. I'm sure you can kind of attest to the same thing. I've done a lot of different stuff in, you know, the last decade. This has been, like, the most difficult thing. Like, it's so stressful. It was the last six months of 2021 was, like, some of the most stressful, like, months of my entire life.

Yeah.

And of course, for me in particular, it didn't help that I had, like, a newborn at home and my son is, like. Was like two at the time.

You know, totally.

Like, those things definitely add a ton of, obviously, stress by themselves, even though they're all good things. And the software was kind of the same thing. It was like, this is a cool thing, but also it's super stressful. And I think it was probably just because like, I'm used to, like, my background's in door to door sales. I'm used to selling stuff.

Yeah.

And when I was building, when we were really focused on like building out the product in the software, it was just a, it was a completely different world, man. Because like we raised over a million in our seed round. And then when we started, you know, deploying some of that capital and putting it to work, you. You start burning money, right? You have a burn rate. And I hate having a burn rate. Like, it makes me stressful to like look at a P L and see like this much money going out of our bank account and like no money coming into our bank account. It's like, it's just a ticking time bomb. It's like, at what point are we going to explode? Like, we have to raise more capital. We're going to figure out how to monetize this like really, really fast.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So it was just a very stressful period for me. And so what, what I learned through that though was just like, lean into the things that you're really good at and hire out the things that you're not really good at. And so for me, I got so bogged out, I thought that I had to wear the hat of like product developer. Not, not software developer, but product developer. Right. So like product owner, where I was like in the software, I was talking to users, I was getting feedback on like where does this button go and where, what's the next step in the process and blah, blah, blah. And I, I tried to wear this hat and become like the product person in my company because I didn't feel like I could afford to hire a good product person.

Yeah.

And that was what completely stressed me out because I, I had no idea what I was doing. I read some books and like got some mentorship and brought in some people. But at the same time, like, it just is not in my wheelhouse. It's not a strength of mine. And I was trying to make it that way. And I think that's what ultimately stressed me out. So what I did is I pulled back from that and I said, what can I do to set myself up for success with the business? The best way that I know how to do currently. And so at the beginning of 2022, since we pivoted to getting guest booked on shows, I was like, I know that there's a bunch of booking agencies out there. If we just kind of reinvent the model of doing a booking agency and we do it on the back end of this and we should be able to bring in some high ticket clients, bring in revenue, and actually be able to feel comfortable hiring some bigger people at more like executive level type roles within the company instead of just contractors or a VA or something like that. And so that's what we started doing, man. And that's been so much better for my mental health is just like getting back to like build out a high ticket service, sell the service. I know we can deliver on it.

Yeah.

And the cool thing is still powered by the engine of the software marketplace, which is what our advantage is over every other booking agency that's out there, is that we're powered by software that makes our job that much easier to be able to deliver on. And so, and so now we've, we've been able to bring on a good amount of clientele on the back end of that and actually turn revenue. And actually we're actually profitable now.

Very cool.

And so like now when we go to try to raise another round, we don't have to come from it, we don't have to come at it from like this point of desperation where it's like, if we don't get this money in three months, we're done. You know, it's not that anymore. Now it's like, okay, we got some breathing room, we got some revenue, we got some profit, we have some case studies. And, and the, and the nice thing about the agency model is that it's literally the same thing that we're selling on the software. It's just that we do it for you.

Yeah.

So now it's almost like filling out a value ladder for us where it's like, oh, we have the do it yourself, which is software, and then we have the done for you, which is the agency. And now, you know, we'll be focusing on like a done with you offer where we have people in the software doing the heavy lifting for you, but you're still involved in the process will be kind of like a, you know, in between point. So that was my big thing, man. Like you just gotta, you gotta lean into what you're good at. Yeah. And then hire out for all the other things. And so for me it was like, I'm good at generating revenue, so I'm gonna go do that. And then once we have enough of it, then I can go hire people that are good at all the stuff. That I'm not good at and that I don't have any interest in becoming good at.

Yeah.

You know. Cause that's always the question. You do have to ask yourself that question. I think as, as, especially as a startup CEO, when you have to wear multiple hats all the time, you gotta ask yourself the question, like, is this a skill set that I absolutely need to learn? Because some of the times the answer is going to be yes. You know what I mean? And so like, for me, like being a real CEO, that was a answer. That question was a resounding yes. I have to learn how to be a real CEO, not just a solopreneur that sells random shit.

Yeah.

You know, I'm saying. So like, that was a skill set I could not afford to not learn.

Yeah.

But as far as like developing code or like managing product development and stuff, like, I don't have to do that and I don't want to do that. And I've learned that that's not something that's a good use of my time.

Yeah.

So I would rather build out this other offer, go be able to scale a little bit, bring in some more capital, and then go hire somebody whose full time job it is to do this thing because they've done it 12 other times and they actually really enjoy it, you know?

Love that. No, that's solid. I can relate for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's very cool. What have you learned from all the different podcasts that you're booking on? I'd love to hear just in terms of the level of shows, how you book guests, the conversations. I know for me, I love having great conversations, but I'm a business show that does interviews. I know there's, you know, there's a lot of great shows out there. Do you tend to have guests on the same shows or what's your sort of theory there in terms of guest booking? Because like, for me, obviously I'd love to have some incredible guests on my show through you. Yeah. But I'm just curious to know like the, the conversations with other guests, whether that's direct to the guest itself or the host or through their manager.

Yeah. We tend to, we tend to really work with basically any show that will give us the time of day in terms of the show side. But on the guest side, what we do is when we're like looking for people to match with each other or we're looking to like place a guest on a particular show. First of all, the thing that differentiates us is that we pay all the hosts that we work with, so they love us. Yeah, we had somebody sign up, actually he does some recordings out of here himself. We had somebody sign with us with us recently duty had $12,000 his first week on guestio. Just like taking, accepting guest bookings and all the guests that we brought him were people that he would have interviewed anyway.

Yeah, you know what I mean?

It's just the difference is like we as the booking agency, we're not taking all the money.

Yeah.

We're basically the pass through entity. We grab the money in a budget from the guest and then we deploy it with show hosts because we think that the show that actually built the audience is the one that deserves the majority of the money rather than the booking agency who didn't build the audience at all.

Yeah, very cool.

So we take that money, we deploy it with the show host that we work with and we look at it from a high level perspective. Meaning that like we, we're not just, we're not just viewing it or basing the pricing and, and the matching on downloads alone. We're looking at it from a complete holistic perspective where we're taking into account their total social reach. We'll look at shows that are similar to their show. We'll look at how many ratings reviews they have on their show. We'll look at, do they have an email list that they can send this, this episode to? Like what, what are some, who are some past guests that they've had on their show? Are they well connected in their industry? Like do they have an eight figure business that powers their pot? Because sometimes, you know, you had a podcaster and it's like they just don't spend any time or money or marketing. Like worry about growing the show. They use it just for like a credibility tool. But yeah, they're running like a multi eight figure business on the back end. Even though they get like 300 downloads an episode, it's like, is that person still a quality person to put our guest with if they happen to have like a product or service that matches? Or they could do it a JV deal or an affiliate partnership or like they can raise capital for each other's funds or like yeah, the other connection piece. Because like when, when we're putting together these campaigns, like we're not just focused on like total downloads or impressions or even lead gen or sales. Like we're focused on branding, like top of funnel number one, credibility, awareness, attention, authority, trust, all of those things. And then we're focused on business development and networking because that's Been like the number one reason to have a podcast and to go on podcasts. Just connecting to the people that you can have conversations with. And then lastly, we focus on, like, lead gen sales and actual, like, direct metrics of the campaign. So, like, when we. When we work with people, we're looking at it from like a, like a grand perspective of, like, what's the 12 to 24 month, like, long tail results of putting these two people together for an interview in a conversation, you know?

Yeah. I love that approach to it. So kudos to you guys for thinking through it like that. Yeah. And I can relate so much. Like, for our initial precede round for media kids, like, I would say 80% of that, the investors were like, direct through my podcast, one way or another, whether I had them on the show. Yeah. And like, I know you can relate to that. So it's like my advisors.

Yeah, everyone. Yeah. Like, the first people that I called up where I was like, hey, I think I want to build software, but I don't know anything about software.

Yeah.

Like, how do I do that? You know, Like, I think I want to raise some money. How do I do that?

Yeah.

The people that I called up were people that were extremely qualified to answer my questions. And the only reason that I had a good working relationship with them is just I had him on my show.

Yeah. Yeah. And for me, like, that's still the most important caveat to all. Everything that I do with the podcast is like, it comes back tenfold if you create the opportunity for it too.

Yeah.

So totally.

Yeah. I call it engineering serendipity. You know, like, serendipity is something that by definition cannot be engineered, but it kind of can be. If you put yourself in more opportunities, you're going to find yourself to be a little bit luckier than most people are.

Yeah.

And I think podcasting is just one of those best ways to engineer more serendipity and luck in your life.

Totally. Well, I know we're short on time, but, Travis, I'd love to ask you one more question before we wrap up. When you just think about the entire podcast landscape, what are you excited about when it comes to the future of this industry? And, you know, with Guestio, what I would say fuels you not only internally at the company, but to really create this platform that helps guests as well as the host.

Yeah. For me, one of the. One of the worst parts about seeing podcasters is how often they quit and how often they fail and how few of them actually make it through to be successful. Shows. And one reason for that, I think, is their. Their show doesn't fire them up because they're not talking to interesting people and they don't make money from. And they don't know how to make money from it. And that's why with Gestio, we're able to allow shows to monetize a lot sooner than they would be able to, just purely through spons. And then, you know, so we tell of our people. It's like you can start making 2 to 500 bucks a month on Guestio just by interviewing people. And start with that, you know, take a hundred percent of that if you can, and pour it directly back into either. Like. Like directly back into the podcast business. So, like, for instance, if you are not making any money and you're editing all your own episodes right now from like the hours of 9pm to midnight after you get home from work, then like, that's step number one, make two, 300, 400 bucks a month on Guestio and then take all of that and hire a producer. Now you just freed up another three hours of your time every day to not have to edit episodes. You can focus more on, like, how do I get good guests? Or how do I start monetizing the show more effectively? And then you, if you can start marketing the show with a little bit of that money, then in six months from now, you're not charging 50 bucks for an interview anymore. You're charging like 250 bucks for an interview.

Yeah.

So, like, our. Our kind of goal against you. We've paid out almost a hundred thousand dollars to creators so far this year.

That's awesome.

And so, like, we want to keep that going, and we want to continue to put more money in the pockets of creators so that people can live a life that they're fired up by. And I think SEO is like a really good vehicle to help people do that. Especially as the space continues to expand, more people become aware of it. And there's like. Like all these platforms promise monetization, but it's all the same form of monetization. It's always like, oh, we have sponsors. And it's like, yeah, but if you're getting 400 downloads an episode, nobody wants to sponsor your show. And if they do, they'll pay you like, 30 bucks a month. Yeah, it's like, that's not enough. Yeah, you don't. You know what I mean? So, yeah, our goal is just to help more creators be able to stay in the game longer because we can help them monetize and have interesting conversations with people they actually want to have conversations with.

Love that.

And then long, long term. And the reason, the reason why, and I'm sorry, sorry for Blue Wire to say this publicly, but the reason why I haven't been on Blue and Blue Wire's network and using their studio and stuff is that long term, we also want to start our own network, which is something that I'm really excited about in terms of totally the future and what we're going to be able to do in that space. Just with the network and connections that we're creating and helping people monetize their shows, I think it'll be a kind of an easy transition for us to start creating our own original content and have a studio space and all that kind of stuff, which is something I'm super stoked for.

Very cool. Well, well, Travis, for everyone that's tuning in today, I just want to wrap it up by saying, where's the best place where everyone can listen to your show, learn more about Guestio and just follow you overall?

Yeah, yeah. If you go to travischapel.com you basically find everything on me. It's kind of like a hub. You can go to Guestio from there. My social links are there, all that kind of stuff. So. Travischapel.com C H A P P E L L travischapel.com you can go over there and find whatever you want about me over there.

Sweet. Well, I appreciate you coming out today, man. I, you know, I know I got you out here last minute, so I much love for you to make it out here. And for everyone that's tuning in, thank you so much for listening today and of course, thank you so much for Blue Wire for having us. And I will talk to you guys soon.

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