Trevor Milton - Billionaire CEO of Nikola Motor & Creating Hydrogen-Powered Trucks

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What is going on, everyone? Kasey Adams here. Welcome back to the Rise of the Young podcast. On today's episode, we have Trevor Milton here with us. Trevor Milton is an American billionaire businessman and the CEO and co founder of Nikola Motor Company. Trevor Milton, a college dropout from Utah who was pushing to raise at least $1 billion to put hydrogen trucks on the road. C and H Industrial, a European maker of heavy duty work vehicles, recently committed $250 million to Nikola's series D investment round as Nikola's biggest shareholder. It also directly impacted Milton and brought him to the billionaire level. Nikola aims to get thousands of futuristic hydrogen powered trucks on the road throughout the 2000s that can travel up to 750 miles between fuelings at stations it plans to build and operate. In March 2020, Nikola announced its plans to merge with Vector IQ. This will result in the combined company being listed on the NASDAQ exchange with the NKLA ticker symbol. The merger is expected to be completed in Q2 of 2020. That being said, I want to say thank you so much for Trevor Milton for being on the show as well as Kieran o'. Brien. He came on today to co host this interview with me to enhance the conversation and it was phenomenal. Make sure you screenshot this episode, post it on Instagram, tag Trevor, Tag Kieran, tag myself and share it with someone who is interested in electric vehicles. That being said, enjoy the episode. Here we go.

All right, what is going on everyone? Casey Adams here. I am here with the one and only CEO of Nikola, Trevor Milton. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Right on guys. Happy to be here.

First off, I want to say thank you to my co host Kieran for coming on today as well, Trevor, I want to ask you, what got you into Nikola and hydrogen cells?

Regarding automobiles, I kind of like to. This is my fifth company, so I have a lot of history in starting companies. I've had two failures in my past, and three of them have been successes. And as an entrepreneur, that's pretty good. I mean, that's a really good batting average for an entrepreneur. And my entire life, I just love to create things, and I always see things. I always tell people, look, if you really want to make a lot of money, it's going to take you 10 years to do it. But you have to take an industry that's not very attractive, and you have to turn it to be something very attractive. Yep. Trucking at the time was something that was very outdated, very unattractive, and I knew that if I could vertically integrate the entire ecosystem, including fuel, we would have a home run solution that no one else had. Love that.

So talk to me a little bit about your early phases. I'd love to hear about those two failures and two successes before Nikola.

Yeah, I mean, so this is my fifth company. I'll start out. The very first was an alarm company, and we did a lot of video surveillance and alarms. And this is back when knocking on doors was just beginning. You know, the whole door to door thing, back in the early 2000s. And I built that company up. And within a few. Within a few. Within about a year or two, I had sold it for almost $2 million. And I thought I was like, on top of the world. You know, I was like, oh, I'm like expert at this thing. So I took that money and reinvested it into a company called upiller.com that was way ahead of its time. Actually. If I was not in Utah and if I would have been in Silicon Valley, we probably would have been what Amazon is today, because we were beating Amazon at what they were doing. We had the first ever shopping cart in the history. No one else had ever developed a shopping cart to buy 50 items from 50 different sellers. Check out one time we developed that whole entire solution. The first group in the world to really do that. We beat Amazon, beat ebay. We were growing. We had 80 million people on our site, and ultimately we would have ended up being Amazon, but we were in Utah. And at the time, Utah had no clue what investment was around the Internet. So we just grew too fast. And that was a lesson for me at that time, was not to grow too fast. And it really kicked our butt. And we shut down. The company, lost everything. It was a really, really difficult thing to shut a company down that's growing. That's like one of the most difficult things to ever do. So that was. Although I consider it a failure. It was. You know, it's not, but it was a financial failure in my past. So from there, we moved into a company that took diesel engines. And this is where I got into trying to really clean up the environment. We took diesel engines and we recalibrated them to turn them into a cleaner engine. We'd recalibrate them to run on diesel and natural gas simultaneously. And we were really the leaders in this. And this is where my relationship with Robert Bosch began, because I needed their injectors. And so we ended up building that relationship with Robert Bosch to have high pressure injectors to inject into the manifold system of a diesel engine. So that's where that company started. And it did okay. We did really well. But we ended up with some intellectual property lawsuits where we were, you know, it was just a really tough time in my life where we. Where we ended up having to close that company down. Not because of our fault, but primarily because people wanted our IP and they came after us and sued us for it. And I didn't have the resources or the people to defend me at the time. So that was another. That was another one. I mean, to have back to back failures. It was like, man, it's almost like a 1, 2 knockout punch, you know. And then from there, I moved into a company called D Hybrid Systems that built high pressure natural gas and hydrogen storage. So this is all leading into the company I have today. You know, went from knowledge of hardware to software to engines, to high pressure natural gas and hydrogen. You can see the lead up right to Nikola. That company I built did real well with it, and we ended up, you know, selling it to a company called Worthington Industries. And I took that money and I reinvested it into Nikola and built out Nikola. So my past has been. I've been real lucky to have three successes.

Very cool.

Two failures. But they weren't really failures. They're just learning experiences. And, you know, that's kind of how I look at it.

Yeah, very cool. I wanted to bring up as well, because I know you started Nikola 2015, and we saw the video, you guys giving a tour of the headquarters here in Scottsdale. But I saw that you guys just raised $250 million on a series D round. I'd love for you to give us some insight on where Nikola is today. And, you know, how are you guys moving into 2020 because you guys are not only crushing it, but you're paving the way for completely new industry.

Yeah, I mean, we've, we've been real lucky to have some of the best partners in the world going into this. I knew that I would never raise money if I didn't build strategic relationships that was. I didn't have access to capital like other people when I first started. I mean, I did really well, but I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like a billionaire worldwide that could just call people and get money. It was. I had to bootstrap this shit, you know, Like, I had to sell my home. I had to leverage my home. My dad leveraged his house. Like people don't realize when they're like, oh man, Trevor just, you know, he's got all this money. It's like, no, you don't understand what it took to get here. We had to give up everything, including our homes and our credit and everything to get here. We raised, man, total. I don't even know. It's got to be over 5, 5 or 600 million up to this point. Could be even more than that. I have to go look. But we raised a quarter billion from case New Holland IVECO, 130 million ish from Robert Bosch, 100 plus million from Hanwha. And in this and right now, we're getting ready to reverse merge right now with a company called Vector iq. That's a holding company only. It's only used to get you public quickly. So it does not have any operational history. It's just a holding company to go public. They've got 235 million. And the so many people wanted to invest in Equal when we announced we were going to merge that we raised an additional almost $600 million on top of that. So we have 800, almost 7 to $800 million waiting. As soon as we merge, that comes into our account. And that's like, that's awesome because we've. That means it'll put us almost a billion dollars essentially liquid cash for us to be successful.

Very cool.

Yeah, that's amazing. I definitely want to hear a little bit more about how that whole process works. Because, you know, Casey's PO is for younger entrepreneurs in their teens and maybe early 20s. And a lot of them aspire to potentially have a successful exit one day or potentially take a company public one day. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about how that whole process works.

There's two articles that I've written, they're very short, they're like three minute reads. But they're on LinkedIn and they're probably most powerful articles you'll ever read, in my opinion. But I literally put down my, my true feelings, emotion, mentality, everything about starting companies, what it means, what it takes, what you're gonna lose, what you're gonna give up, how you can be successful, what not to do, what to do. And it's like, it's just bullet point after bullet point of very, very blunt, very good knowledge. And if you read those, it's almost hard to read a little bit. Cause you'll read it and you'll be like, you can hear the pain in my voice, in my letters, because I'm writing from my heart how painful it's been to get here. People don't realize the odds are against you. Absolutely, completely stacked against you to succeed. And I don't ever want to discourage anyone from being successful. I'm a big believer that if you educate people going in to start a company, they have a lot higher success rate than you do if you just go in blind. So I try to educate people. There's two articles. One's called like a random Airport Encounter and that's on my LinkedIn. And the next one is, it's how to get back up after you, after you, after you. You know, you've gotten knocked down and lost everything. Because I've been in both situation. You know, there's an entrepreneur that stopped me in the airport in Detroit and he asked me que didn't know who I was. He was, you know, I just kind of said hi to him and he started telling me how he wanted to become an entrepreneur and I documented this whole conversation and he later reached out to me and I gave him a ton of advice and it's a fascinating story. So if you guys haven't, if you guys really want to know, like that's like an hour long discussion. It's amazing. But go to my LinkedIn and read those and it'll give you more advice than I could ever give you on video.

Totally. No, absolutely. I'll make sure to check those out. I want to ask you what does your day to day look like when you're at the headquarters being CEO? Where do you spend your time and where do you focus?

Yes, I'll answer that, but I want to give you 30 seconds of what the previous question was. At least a little bit of an answer for your audience. What entrepreneurs don't know is that going into something, starting your own company you're most likely going to fail. So if you know that going into it, it's going to take a lot of the pain out of it because you won't hate yourself for the bad decisions you make or the things you do wrong. I see a lot of entrepreneurs literally just lose all confidence. And I talk about this, how I lost my conf twice in my life, and to get there, I had to build it back up. And how did I do it? I did it really slowly. It does not come fast. You've got to build it slowly. You can't just. You can't build that confidence just by business. You have to build it socially, too, which means you have to go out and serve other people. And if you're serving other people, you can learn to love yourself. And by learning to love yourself again, you can learn to love the process of going into business. So there's a lot of really good advice I give you in those articles. But I think that if, you know, I try to tell people, do something that you really, really are naturally gifted at, this is the one bit of advice I'll give you on video. Whatever you're good at. And you naturally, you're just better than if you put everyone in a room, 50 people in a room. If you're better than all 50 people at something, go do that. Because naturally, you're going to be better than them without even trying. And so if you do try, you're going to kick everyone's ass. Like, become LeBron James. You know, literally go there and work your ass off until your body falls apart. And if you're already better than everyone when you start, you're going to become an absolute superstar when you end. And that's what I tell people. Look, there's no one better than me that I've ever found that can see more equations and more solutions, more problems, like. And I can dissect those things within seconds. I can work on. I instantly read people's personalities, and I know exactly who they are within. Within 30 seconds of talking to them. I know almost everything about their entire life. And this is like, that's my gift. That is my gift is to dissect situations faster than anyone I've ever encountered in my life. By doing that, I learned that I needed to surround myself with people that were better than me at everything I sucked at. And so that's the key is, like, learn everything you're not good at. Hire the people that are better than you, and do something you love, and you will have like a 5050 chance. And that's the best AM odds you'll ever get in entrepreneurship that you could ever dream of. So I hope that answers that last question. What was the question you just asked me again? I'm sorry.

Yeah, just when it comes to your day to day operations, where do you spend most of your time and how do you keep yourself accountable and the team accountable?

So that kind of leads from the previous question. So hiring the best team in the world is incredible. Like, you will learn that hiring the people around you that are good at everything you suck at is the key to being successful. And I'm not kidding. When I first started being an entrepreneur, I thought I had to be good at everything. I was like, oh, I have to. This is like, an investor won't invest in me unless I know all this. That's bullshit. Like, listen, an investor won't invest in you if you act like you know what you're doing. So you know, if you want to get investor money and capital, like be very upfront about what you're really good at, what you're not good at, who you're hiring to fulfill those spots. And they will come running to you because they're so tired of entrepreneurs, like bullshitting them, telling them how good they are. Oh, I can do this, I can do that. Listen, no, just tell them one good thing you're good at and then tell them all the people you've hired for what you're not good at. They will have tremendous respect for you. So my day, because I've hired so many really good people, I have world class. Like I'm talking Michael Jordan level guys around me that are, that are in every category, whether it's finance or whether it's construction, whether it's engineering, whether it's controls, logic, vehicle, whatever it is. There's a hundred people around me that are experts. And so my day really comes to. This is where it gets fun. I show up to work, I immediately go into my email. I want to clear all my email out. And one bit of advice I'll give entrepreneurs is your email box should be the cleanest thing you ever have in your life. If you have more than I always tell people if you have more than 100 emails, you have a problem because you should archive and categorize everything that's already done. So whenever you get done with an email archive, categorize it or delete it if it's not important, but archive and categorize it. And then the ones in your inbox are to do lists that are Those are things that are not yet done. Forget all these other like to do programs. It's all bull crap like use your email. It's the most efficient thing you can ever do in your life. So I use Gmail and, and everything in my inbox and right now I've got, I'll tell you right now, I'll pull it up. Let me look at it. My corporate email, I have a total of. I have 18 emails in my inbox with two unreads right now.

Okay.

That's how active I am on my email. Those 18 things are things that have to be addressed and done and that are not done yet. So most of the time they're things I can't do because I'm waiting on someone else. So they're. There are things that are in front of my face every single day and that way I never miss anything. I get comments all the time from employees and other people. They're like, I've never seen an email go to you that has not been responded to. And I teach this inside Nicola, that your inbox ought to be. Your inbox should be your to do list. So I'm very active. So I come in, I knock all that out as fast as I can. I have a personal and a company email I go through. And my personal is usually usually two or three times longer than my business because I put priority on my business over my personal. So my personal is usually about 30 to 40 emails. And my business is, I try to keep it under 10. And that allows me to make sure that no one inside the business is waiting on an answer for me. So that when I go walk the floor and I go talk to everyone inside of every division, they're not like, hey, I'm still waiting on that email from you or hey, what do you think about this? Like, no, I've already answered their questions before I get there. The amount of respect that they have for you is tremendous if you're not holding your team up. So learn to be a real leader, get your shit done, work hard and then go walk the. I walk the floor, I go see my team and then I get to learn from them. Love that they're not waiting on me. I get to go ask them questions. I get to learn from them.

Yep, awesome. I want to talk ev. You know, it's one of the, it's one of the most interesting, innovative and future focused industries in the world. And I just want to get kind of your 10,000 foot view on where the future is headed. A 5, 10 year look at where this industry is going.

Well, I'm not trying to ever be too confident or brag about things, but this is important to help you understand that answer. There's two people in this world that know EVs better than anyone, and that's Elon and myself. There's no one in this world that I can go into any meeting with. Volkswagen, Daimler, Volvo. You could put 30 PhDs in that room and I would run circles around every one of them. Because they only know one thing. That's all they know. Each person only knows one thing. They have no idea how it all connects together. And their vehicles are total disasters. If you buy a brand new Mercedes Benz, it's got like 15 to 20 different controllers on it, none of them built by the same supplier. A total mess. They don't even communicate to each other correctly. It's just a total nightmare. So there's very few people that know the EV industry or the whole entire vehicle like I do or like Elon does. We're probably the top two guys in the world that know this shit, and we know it better than anybody. So where's this whole thing going? I mean, this is fascinating. I mean, look, I think in the next 10 years there's going to be what I call, like, not collector cars, but like exciting cars that are, that are gas powered, that people love. They're going to buy. It's going to be a muscle car, it's going to be something really cool. It's really fun. It explains your DNA, explains yourself. It's like, it could be a Ferrari, it could be a, it could be a Mustang, it could be a Corvette, but it's something unique. Everything else is going to be electric, it's going to be electric. There's, there's nothing out there better than electric or hydrogen. Now I'm going to explain to you guys. So Nikola is the leader in both electric and hydrogen, but different than Tesla because what we do is we build big heavy duty vehicles. Yep, electric vehicles, really well up to about 2 to 300 miles over that, they're a total disaster because of the weight in, in the heavy duty world, every pound is worth 50 cents on every load. So what that means is if your vehicle weighs 5,000 pounds more, then you're losing $2,500 on every load you do. It doesn't matter if you get energy for free, you're still, you're still going bankrupt. So this is the key to this is why, you know, there's both hydrogen and electric. Wolf always survive is because hydrogen weighs 5,000 pounds less on a semi truck than electric does. But electric vehicles are awesome for everything. When you talk about, when you talk about low range, like, you know, cars and light duty vehicles and delivery vans, electric's the way to go. Heavy duty, big stuff, trains, trucks, marine, hydrogen is the only way to go. And so that's going to be the fascinating part of the world is you're going to see almost everything gone non existent anymore, except for the. The specialty vehicles that call out your DNA. The rest are going electric. Love that.

I want to ask you, I'm a huge believer in just relationships and I know that you're talking a lot about your relationships with Elon or different manufacturers. What are the cause I think this is a very unique point for a lot of young entrepreneurs. Being the best in the game at what you do alongside Elon. What are the conversations that happen at that high level? You guys are moving in a way that no one else is moving. So what are those conversations with you or Elon or just the trajectory of the companies? Because you guys, like you just said, Nikola Tesla just, they're aligned, but different in so many ways. And I'd love for you to talk about that.

Yeah. One bit of advice I'll tell entrepreneurs is don't ever be afraid to be disliked. Don't be afraid. This world is so like, everyone's so sensitive nowadays, like, oh, I can't have anyone not like me. Like, that's utter. You will fail. You'll get your ass kick. Here's the thing. I'm very public about this. Elon hates me. Like we don't get along. Like it's okay. Like I have nothing against the guy. He hates me, though. He literally despises me. And that's okay. Like for him. He looks at me like he has a very hard time not being in the spotlight. It has to be him or there's nothing. And he's very angry at me. The fact that our company's named after the same inventor. So for him, that was an insult on him, but it's not. It was a pain homage to the greatest inventor in the world. And it had nothing to do with Elon. And this is the problem. He always thought that this was an attack on him. It had nothing to do with him. He doesn't really think that things can happen that aren't around him. So it had nothing to do with him. Had everything to do with Nikola Tesla, the greatest inventor in the world. And so that was why we own the trademarks. Nikola and all the patents, he owns the trademark Tesla and all the patents, the trademarks around that. So we're two totally different companies. Although we're very aligned in thinking and philosophy around some things. And don't be afraid to be disliked. I don't give a crap if Elon doesn't like me. I could give a rat's ass. Like, I'm kicking his ass in trucking. And you got to be willing to go up against the people that you. Originally, when Elon started, I thought I, I was like, dude, the guy's really cool. Like, I, you know, one day we'll have, like, similarities, whatever, you know, we'll talk, whatever. But I quickly found that that was never going to be the case, and that was okay for me. So it's, There's a lot of basketball stars that have talked about this as well, where they, when they, when they started playing basketball there, the people that they looked up to the most when they first started became their biggest rivalries. And the people that they, that they clashed with the most. That means that you're going after the right market. That means you've got someone's jugular right in vision, and you've got a market that you're willing to build value for your shareholders. So don't ever be afraid of being disliked. Look, I'm liked by millions of people all over the world. I don't give a shit what someone at another company thinks of me. So don't care. Don't. Who cares if they come after you? Who cares if they harass you? You know, if you're confident in yourself, go out there and go out there and do what you do now. You ask the high level questions like, what goes on? So in my phone, there's probably, I don't know, there's probably 20 or 30 billionaires in my phone. And they're all really incredible people that I have good relationships with. The conversations I have with them are incredibly short and fast. You'll learn this when you get up to the higher levels of people. Your conversations are incredibly fast. And it's funny how, like, I offend my employees all the time because they're like, well, you only sent me back three words. You must not want to talk to me. And I'm like, I'm like, look, wow. The fact I gave you three words shows you that I do want to talk to you. If I didn't want to talk to you, I would give you zero. Because your time becomes so valuable and you're dealing with, on an average day I'll make 500 to 1,000 decisions. Wow. It's crazy, like, and people don't realize that. And you don't have time to talk to people about all 500 to 1,000 decisions you make. You make them on the fly and 95% of them you're going to get right. Because one of the things I talk about in the article is when you learn how to make small decisions and you fail on small levels, you're much more equipped to deal with big levels and big decisions. So when you get up to this level, you start to make these decisions and they're huge. Like on an average day I'll make anywhere from, I mean, some days it's over $100 million worth of decisions, some days it's a few hundred thousand dollars. But you can't have any emotion towards those decisions. You got to make decisions that you believe in the most, make them fast. I always tell people, if you're going to fail, fail fast, fail elegantly, get back up and do and fix it so that way you don't have long term effects. And so the conversations are fast, man. Like, I'll text my friends and the responses are like four or five words long.

Very cool. That's some great insight. Two more quick questions before we wrap up. I want to be respectful of time.

Well, I want to talk quickly about the power sports. I think that, you know, obviously I think anybody, if they just go to the Nikola website, they can very clearly see your trajectory for, you know, taking over the trucking industry and revolutionizing that. But what really shocked me when I looked on this was, you know, the jet skis and the different power sports vehicles. I'm super interested in that.

Well, I'm a big believer in doing something you have to do stuff you absolutely love to be successful. And the power sports industry to me is something that is just true to my heart. Yep. So it's a reflection of Trevor. I mean, it's, I love the off road industry. I love, I love going camping, I love going to the lake. I love spending time with family members at the lake. I love to go to the sand dunes. I love to go, you know, ride up into the mountains and go look at deer and elk or whatever, you know, just go, go, go up in the mountains. So it's a direct reflection of my personality. And I would suggest that all entrepreneurs, whenever you do something, do a little bit of something you love, you know, you got just, you got to love the whole thing, but do something that reflects you and that's what the Powersports are. I mean, we didn't expect this industry to take off like it did. We were the first ones doing electric power sports in the whole industry. And we have the most advanced off road vehicle you've ever seen in your life. It comes in full production next year. It's 600 horsepower. Okay. You know, it's 700 foot pounds of torque before reduction, 7,000 foot pounds of torque after. You know, you can go up a 30 or 40% incline without any reduction of torque to the point where you're almost tipping over backwards. It can out tow a Ford F150 and it's all made for the off road to go jump 60ft on a sand dune and land on the downhill. So it's like, wow. And then you can pull your waverunner to the lake with it. You can go ride your WaveRunner for three hours, come back and charge it off of your UTV and go out again. So it's like a total ecosystem of awesome off roadness.

I want to touch on just real quick regarding the waverunner. Right. I go on the website last night, I reserve mine. If a consumer reserves their WaveRunner today, what is the expected rollout of receiving these vehicles?

I think that we'll start deliveries of those at the end of next year. So it's quick. It's within probably 12 to 16 months we'll start deliveries. We already have units out being tested and we're going to show off the final production unit here in about six or seven months when we do the big Nikola world again. So that's going to be a lot of fun. So they're going to come down the line right after that.

Very cool. Well, Trevor, I just want to wrap this up, man. I just want to say thank you so much for taking the time. And last thing, just if you were to give one piece of advice, very short and simple, to an entrepreneur starting their first company today or just starting a new company, what would that advice be and why?

Man, I would tell them that if you don't have the passion is everything. You got to feel like you're making a difference at something. Like you can't just go build something that's like going to make money. If you don't truly believe in what you're making, like inside and out, deep and through. My conviction around Nikola is so deep, it's everything around the cleaner air, the environmental, but also performance. Like, I don't just believe in one thing. I don't just stick my head in the sand and say it's only environmental. It's not. It's everything. It's the jobs, it's the families that I'm helping, it's all the people we employ. It's the amazingness to be able to beat everyone in the industry that are. You know, these people have been around for 100 years and have got billions of dollars and 400,000 employees and they mock you on stage, yet you go and you outperform them and everyone. It's just the greatest feeling in life. So do something you love, man. Do something you absolutely love. Be convicted with it, you know, and don't worry about failing. It's not that big of a deal. It's not a. There's no harm, there's no like. What's the word I'm looking for? There's no like. It doesn't matter if you fail. People think failure is such a bad thing. Good. Hell, it's not. It's the one of the greatest aspects you'll ever get in life. Cause it teaches you how to survive. You gotta fail to survive, man. So get your ass kicked a few times and then you'll start to be a real entrepreneur.

Love that. Where's the best place that people can go to stay up to date with yourself as well as Nikola moving forward.

They can follow me on Twitter ikolatrevor. They can follow me on Instagram at Lake Pal Trevor. That's my. That's where I obviously love Lake pal and my LinkedIn Trevor. You know, they can go find me Trevor Milton on LinkedIn and they're all kind of different. My Twitter is around my a lot around my business. My Instagram is very personal one on one where I do a lot of in depth videos or things where you can around the business too, but personal. Way more personal than Twitter. But Twitter is where you get like instant updates and then my Instagram is really around teaching entrepreneurs and doing a lot of my philanthropy and things that I really do to try to help people.

Love that. Well, that being said, Trevor, I just want to say thank you again so much for coming on the show today.

All right, sounds good, guys. Take care. Have fun.

Monarch Legacy of Monsters An Apple Original Series the world is on fire. I decided to do something about it on 11-6-17. This place, it's not ours. Believe me, the most massive event of the year arrives. If you come with me, you'll know everything.

I promise. Oh my God. Go, go, go.

Monarch Legacy of monsters streaming November 17th only on Apple TV. Plus.