Hitting Home Runs: Curtis Granderson's Major League Journey.

So we get eliminated in the playoffs in 2004. I toss my cleats in, I toss my batting gloves in, I toss my glove in the trash. I start packing my locker. And then the manager called me into his office and said, hey, come on in. I was like, okay, what did I do wrong? He goes, you're going to the big leagues tomorrow. I was like.

Is it easy for you if you're struggling with something, to be able to kind of pour it out to someone that you trust?

Having that person was something I always recommended. It didn't have to be a professional, just had to be somebody that you know will listen and you can just get it out. They may provide a response or a solution. They may not. But just getting it out, I think is just so key.

What I found the problem was, is that when you start saying no to the things that you love because you just can't do everything, it's hard.

You say no a lot of times, and my mom said no is the answer and the reason all wrapped into one. The answer could just simply be no. But actually saying it is, to your point, one of the hardest things to do when you do it. It's really not that bad.

Okay, so I'm excited to have Curtis Granderson with me today. Curtis played over. Is this right? 2000 games in the major leagues. Is that. Is that right?

That's a good. I don't know. That's a good one. I looked up some statistics before we.

Jumped on 1800 hits over 344 home runs, 53 stolen bases, 937 RBI over 1200 runs scored. You're a three time all star Silver Slugger award winner, and you have seen the postseason eight times and you're in two World Series. That is unbelievable. So what's even more remarkable about Curtis is his work off the field and his foundations, which we're going to get into today. So welcome. Thank you so much for joining me.

Thanks for having me. And when you mentioned 2000 games, I'm like, wow. Like, they kept letting me come back to play that many games. I know I could do that.

How many seasons did you play?

16.

Wow.

Yeah. And you know what's funny about it? When I got drafted in 2002, you know, you go to the minor leagues and literally I thought that I would play in the minor leagues for about a year or two, get released, and then go ahead and start to put my college degree to work. And then right at the end of that second two and a half years, I got called up to the big leagues, and the rest was history.

Tell me about that moment when you got called up. How old were you?

I was 23 years old. I was in Double A. We had just finished the playoffs, and the way it typically works is. Or the way I had done it. At the end of the season, my equipment was as worn through as, as anything. Like there was no salvaging anything in there. So batting gloves, cleats, gloves, all that stuff, I would just throw in the trash. Then I would get my next round of equipment for the next year. I would start breaking it in the winter. So we get eliminated in the playoffs in 2004. I tossed my cleats in, I tossed my batting gloves in. I tossed my glove in the trash. I start packing my locker. And then the manager called me into his office and said, hey, come on in. I was like, okay, what did I do wrong? He goes, you're going to the big leagues tomorrow. I was like. So I had to go to the trash, get all my stuff out, and get ready to hopefully join the team the next day in Detroit. And that's how I got called up to the big leagues.

Unbelievable. Was it culture shock for you?

It was a surprise of things because I knew I had played well, but I was really in the mindset as the season just ended. It's time to pass up my apartment. I'm going to drive from Erie, Pennsylvania back to Chicago and then get ready for the offseason and see what that unfolds. And literally it just, it threw a. A wrench in the system because I got home. I. Okay, I haven't packed yet. I normally take about a day or two to pack. The game's at one o' clock tomorrow. It's now midnight. So how, how does this all work? And, oh yeah, I overslept my flight the next day trying to pack up everything. So. Max St. Pierre, another call up with me, Roberto Navoa, pitcher. The three of us all missed our flight, so instead of us flying from Erie to Detroit, we ended up driving, which is about four hours, wasn't too bad. But we got to the stadium around 12, 12, 15 for that one o' clock game. Luckily, I didn't play that day, but I was exhausted. I was excited. All wrapped into one.

I bet.

I bet. What.

Tell me if you were to think back about that moment when you, you made it, you are scrambling to get there. You show up. What's your, what's your, like, first memory? What do you think about, like, when you think about that moment you walked In. Is it like, walking the locker room? And is it just like. I mean, what. What. What do you remember? What was like, the memory you have?

So the first. First memory that. That's gonna always be vivid. So Roberto Navoa had been called up before. So once you get called up, you get a major league identification card. It's about the size of a credit card. You know, it's just your. Has your picture on it. You can show it to get in and out of stuff. So we're pulling up, but English is his second language, so he knows where to go. But he's not the best at communicating him. So he's trying to guide us to the parking lot. So we pull up to the parking lot, and I'm like, okay, what do we say? I go, we're here to play. And I'm like, I'm sure they've heard that before by a million people. I don't know what this. I had no identification, so. Except my driver's license. I go, we're called up to join the team. And luckily, he had his card, and. And he gave it to the person, and the person said, oh, okay, you can go through here and park over there. But if he didn't have that card, I expect that the security would have been called on us, we escorted to the other side. That's hilarious. Finally, we get in. We get in, see the locker room. And I mean, I had some amazing teammates on there, you know, Pudge Rodriguez, hall of Famer Demetri Young. Just a class act took me underneath his wings. You know, some of the first two people that I got a chance to see and interact with, and all of a sudden, I'm in Comerica Ballpark, home of the Detroit Tigers. I'm in the big leagues, and we're playing the Minnesota Twins, and I'm like, this. This is, you know, exactly what they talked about, what the dreams are made of. And it's amazing. And it almost got derailed if our teammate didn't have his player identification card on. Right?

That's hilarious. Well, before we go back, I have one more question about that. You mentioned a couple people that had an impact on you. Can you share one thing you learned going into the majors from someone that you looked up to that kind of stuck with you? That really helped you?

So with Dimitri Young, I mean, he. I didn't know exactly that there was this. You know, the veterans take the younger players underneath their wings. They show them how to do certain things. In the minor leagues, everybody's young, so everybody's fighting kind of going. And if you're an older player, you're not necessarily super excited because you're repeating a level that you shouldn't necessarily be at. So they're not very helpful. They're not very informative.

It.

It's team, but it's very individual. So once you get there. This is my first time where someone's like, hey, I'm going to take you out to eat. I'm going to. You could come to my room to hang out. We're going to go to the ballpark together. We're going to do all these different things. And that stuck with me. So as I started to move in that position of becoming, you know, a more seasoned player and on the verge of becoming a veteran, I tried to always take it underneath myself, especially the new players. One, make them feel comfortable. I know there was that history of hazing and initiations of, you know, both good, bad, and a lot of the negative that came with it. My whole process was, we're all on the same team, fighting for the same goal. I need you to be as comfortable as you can be, so that way you can perform at your best, and we all can perform at your best. Me trying to rip your clothes or, you know, embarrass you and do all these different things, I'm assuming isn't going to make you be the most comfortable. And Demetri made me feel comfortable, and I was able to pass it on to others. But I was right on that verge where a lot of that hazing had just started to stop, where guys would make you carry their bags and do all these different things, take your meal money and do all that. And Dimitri wasn't that way with me. And that's why our bond was so tight. And then from there, you know, I was able to start doing that stuff for other players coming up.

You know, I remember when I went to Ohio State and I went to look at all the fraternity houses. I'm like, there's no way I can go into one of these fraternity houses, because if they haze me, I might kill somebody.

When I wasn't a drinker, too, up until I turned 21, just no reason. I always partied, had a good time. But I always thought about that. I was like, if I go join a frat, how does that work? I mean, the assumption, you got to drink, and you got to drink a lot. I wonder, if I say, hey, I don't drink, would that be okay? But, you know, I never joined a frat, so I don't know, you know.

You got to wonder what's behind. You know, everybody's complex and everybody's got layers of depth in them that most people suppress. You know, they suppress it from their childhood. They don't even. They're not even aware of it. And you have to wonder the people who are hazing hardcore, you know, what's behind it, right? Because there's definitely issues that are. They're unresolved or that make them feel a certain way by making other people feel a certain way. And it's the exact opposite of leadership. You know, it's just. It just is. It's.

In the baseball world, you know, that's the way I can compare most. I had older players who had been hazed and had gone through those rigorous initiations, and you could tell it was ingrained in them. So someone did this to me. I'm going to do it to the next person. And there were certain things we did. We did rookie dress up, but I was all about if there was a team thing and it wasn't singling out someone, it wasn't as bad. You know, I had to dress up as Pocahontas my rookie year there, but it was me and 10 other players, right. I wasn't singled out. There's a difference there. I feel like now it may not have been the most comfortable, but that's how we did it. And as we moved forward, I tried to make sure that it was a team thing and I would in on some of it as well. Like, all right, this is the dress up day. Let me get involved as well. Let's all go get some donuts. Because we're all going to enjoy, like, we're not going to get things that you aren't going to enjoy or be able to partake in. I wanted to make sure that players got a chance to, you know, be a part of it as well.

You know, it's an amazing thing, right? Because leadership. I'm very passionate about leadership. And the one thing I know about leadership and just seeing it in the business world is the amount of influence that one person can have. And it's amazing about what was going on in that culture, how much of that was simply the herd mentality of people just going along with the. With the way it was, the way we do things and didn't even. Maybe it was against their core value, but they just did it anyways because they didn't want to look to be someone who was going against the grain and for someone to have a strong core and to Be able to kind of take a stand or just live their principles like your mentor. The guys who you looked up to that changed that, that culture, there were probably a couple people who were at the core of that, that, you know, had influence whether it was, you know, consciously or not, that other guys were following. And then it just kind of sees what, you know, whether people are getting in trouble or not, or whether it was just, you know, a different time and the culture changed. But it's amazing, you know, when you think about the power of influence and how one person actually, you don't need a whole team of leaders. You just need a couple really good strong ones.

Especially if you're a young player in that situation, you can't say too much, like, I just got here, I need them to send me back. So tell me what you need me to do. You want me to jump how high? That's going to be the response. And it's, it's a little difficult in that space, but you got to find hopefully, you know, again, I was very blessed that I ended up in the big leagues with Detroit at that time because I had a good group of guys that were coming into it. And then soon after it, we had other very good veterans. Kenny Rogers was 40 years old and was just amazing. I remember being nervous right way. Like I had the vision of Kenny Rogers where he had attacked the cameraman because the cameraman was following him and he threw the camera down. I was like, oh no. I got this 40 year old teammate that broke this guy's camera. And Kenny was the nicest teammate, one of the best that I had ever had. I remember the first time he joined us, he sat on the bus next to me and he had this leather jacket on. I'm like, oh no, what do I say? And he's like, hey, granny, what's going on? How you doing? And it was awesome. A great teammate I had. Sean Casey, the mayor, they call him one of the friendliest players in for a reason. And Gary Sheffield, big brother, you know, coming into his own, you know, same thing. Very strong individual, very intense, but goofy, relaxed. I was sitting next to him on the plane. So again, I was very fortunate. I had some great, just people in addition to just great baseball side of thing. And that just helped shape and mold me to continue to keep doing it as I went on. I mean, I remember, you know, being with the Mets, we were in Atlanta and we were kind of running through a little bit of a, kind of a skid right there. And this was young Jacob Degrom Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Stephen Matz, David Wright, a bunch of, you know, a mix of old and young and a lot of talent. I said, all right, we gotta bring this back to fun. So I ordered on Amazon, I think, six or seven dozen dodgeballs, and brought them to the clubhouse. And the clubhouse is a big rectangular square with couches and chairs. I threw the dodgeballs out, and I said, let's go. And we had this massive dodgeball fight in the locker room before a game. But again, it was a team thing. It wasn't, hey, rookies, you go stand up on the wall and we're just gonna peg balls at you and stuff like that. I mean, it was amazing. Players were diving on couches and throwing. No one got hurt, but it just helped. Just bring that culture together. And then, sure enough, we were in the World Series the next year in 2015.

Are the coaches engaging or are they observing?

I. I remember them walking in and walking right out, and I think they. They also look at it and go, okay, this is their space. Let me make sure. It's just controlled, right? You know, it's not a fight going on. There's not any, you know. You know, just crazy out of this. But sometimes they do let that go. Like, sometimes you got to express and get that information out. Players have an issue, and they have to go at it verbally, whatever, let them do it. But obviously, you want to still step in there. You police it when you need to. But our coaching staff there were Terry Collins and Dick Scott and Ricky Bonas, just to name a few. They just kind of sat back and watched, and they would, you know, laugh, enjoy, ask who won afterwards and who's all right. Make sure they're starting pitchers. Okay and good to go. And I'm like, we're all good, Skip. I got it under control. So they just let it go. But I think that comes from knowing you have leaders on top, that you can let them lead. And we had David Wright, like I said, we had myself. We had Bartolo Colona on those teams. You know, we had players that. That were able to lead and gather and get everybody under control. And now they just watch from afar and sat back.

How would you describe the difference between the influence that the coaches had versus the veteran players?

I consider the coaches the people that drive the ship, but the. The veteran players are those passengers. You know, some are sitting, you know, in the front of the boat, the back of the boat, the middle of the boat, and then you have the younger players all mixed in around them based on what's going on. You know, I'm dealing with something. I sit closer to this player. If I want to joke around, I sit closer to that one. Maybe I don't need too much. Then I sit closer to another teammate, but they're still always Dr. And it's like that mom, that's on that long road trip. I don't look back there until y' all keep yelling and screaming a little too much, but otherwise, he hit me.

He hit me.

I'm not gonna look at. He keep hitting me and crying and we're screaming. Okay, now, don't let me pull this car over real quick. That's how I consider the coaches and the manager. They're not gonna pull it over unless you give them reason to pull it over.

That's really interesting. And how would you describe, like, the difference? But, I mean, you were blessed to play on. On multiple teams, right? You play on a bunch of teams, and you played on incredible teams. How would you describe the culture difference? And, I mean, just. Just talk to me. How different was the culture from one to the next? And. And, like, what did you see was the main factor of, like, the root problem or reason why culture was either better or not not so great?

So I think the markets played a lot into the culture. So I started with Detroit, and this was on the verge of the recession, you know, 2008 recession. So things were getting really bad in the state of Michigan as a whole, financially. And one of the things I lear that even though things financially are really bad, there's a couple things people will still turn to for a sense of joy and excitement. And that's sports, and that's alcohol. And I. Obviously, we're not, you know, promoting the alcohol, but they kind of go hand in hand. You go to the ballpark, they're selling beer. You go to a sports bar, you can buy some beer and watch your favorite team on there. And if your team is winning, you can get behind them. So we make it to the play. We make it to the World Series. In 06, we're a really solid team. In 7, we struggle. In 8 and 9, we play in game 163, you know, we tied at the end of the season, but the way that state got behind the team and, oh, yeah, we also had. The Detroit Pistons were very good, and the Detroit Red Wings were very good. So you just had, literally, a sports town, a sports state that was all behind it, fighting for a number of different things. Where's my next paycheck? Coming from, can my team go ahead and stand on their own and be out there? And I'm just trying to get through the next day. So you had that level of it. Then I get traded over to the Yankees. Now I'm over in this market, arguably one of the biggest sports market in all of the world. And they had just won a World Series in 2009. You bring in or you have veterans such as Derek Jeter and Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettit towards the tail end of their career. And, and this is an organization I'm joining. Whether you know baseball or you don't, you've heard of the Yankees. And I know that case in point because I've traveled around the world promoting it. And I have people come up to me saying, I don't know baseball, but aren't the Yankees a team? So you add that, right? So it's the market that just adds to the intensity, the expectation, the notoriety of it. And just two differences, you know, between Tigers and Yankees. Here's a state in Michigan that's going through all this, just loving the fact that their team is giving them a sense of joy through success. And here are the Yankees. That is known, loved and or hated by so many different people. So there's always an eye on you. And it just keeps each clubhouse slightly different, but intense in its own different way. In Michigan at that time, this is literally for the state, for everyone. In New York at that time, this is to get everyone off your back. You gotta win. If not, the media's coming, the fans coming, everybody's coming. So it's a combination of all those good things, and I can't say one is better than the other. It's just a difference. And you don't know it until you're actually in it.

Interesting. I, you know, I always, A lot of people interview you, talk about people, people being that like the main influence. But it's, it's interesting hearing you say that. Of course, of course the city. I mean, look, I'm from Cleveland, so when I saw LeBron come in and then Tutor City, I mean, it became like a billion dollar transition because of what one person was able to do for a sports town and the amount of pain and the amount of sleep that people lost with the Browns and with the Indians and the Cats, I mean, it makes sense. And that can have a huge impact on the morale inside the locker room, for sure.

I mean. So you mentioned Cleveland. It's 2006 or 7. I want to say 7. The Pistons are good. The Cavs are good, the Tigers are good. The Indians are good. And there's a weekend I think in May where we're all in Cleveland playing. So you the NBA playoffs going on and we're getting started, but you know how close Detroit and Cleveland are. I mean it's a two hour drive, it's an 18 minute flight and the city is packed. You have the old English D, you have the tribe low code. Well, now the guardians, all that stuff represented and LeBron and the Cavs just knock off the Pistons. Our game finishes at the same time, so we're staying at the Marriott Key center, which is right down the field from Progressive Field. I mean we can walk to the stadium. A lot of people typically do it. And as we're walking the streets, I think it's either east seventh or west seventh, you know the street where all the little bars and restaurant and it's packed. There's Tiger spans, there's cab spans, there's Pistons fans, there's Indian spans. And in the middle of the street they're burning Rasheed Wallace jerseys in the middle of the street. But it, that's that excitement and that intensity and there was no risk of anyone fighting or turning dangerous. This was that, you know, they call it, you know, all these just negative terms like the mistake on the lake and the forgotten city and the, the, the, the murder mitt and all this stuff. And it's like, no, like eyeballs are on us right now. We have some of the best teams, some of the best athletes. We're doing it. We're letting everybody know we're bringing out some of that frustration right now. And unfortunately, Rasheed Wallace got the tail end of it because they were burning his jerseys in the middle of the street. But it was such a fun rivalry because even playing in it, it was always, well, you haven't beat the Yankees or Boston yet, or for the Cavs and the Pistons where you haven't beat the Lakers or the Bulls or any big, big market team. And they're like, just give us a chance and we're going to show you. The Pistons were back to back NBA champs. We had knocked off the, the Yankees in 2006 to advance in the playoffs. Like the Cleveland, Cleveland knocked off the Yankees the next year. So just give us a shot and we'll show you. And it was all that that made it exciting to be there during that time frame.

Yeah, it's really cool. You know, I went to Ohio State, so. The Ohio State, it's an Ohio State town In Columbus. Right. And even like just the Ohio State Michigan rivalry. But the, I remember, I mean, I remember it did go sour and there were riots and there are, you know, people getting crazy. Right. And it is, it's interesting. I never really thought about it until here. Just hearing you talk about how the culture of an organization is so heavily impacted in sports by the culture of what's going on outside the locker room. I mean, again, you can have a huge influence inside, but you were on some big teams that, that had had a lot of exposure and yeah, it's really interesting. So I appreciate you sharing all that. Let me go back real quick. Who, who in your life had the biggest impact on you growing up and something maybe that stuck with you and is, is the reason why you are the way you are today or anything that you carry with you, that really had a huge impact on you.

There's a number of people, my parents for sure, and both of them were educators. My dad taught K through a gym, my mom taught high school science. And as a teacher, you have so many different individuals in your classroom. They come from all walks of life and you have this 50 minute period with them where I got to try to relate to them. I have to understand where they are, meet them where they are, speak a certain way to one and speak a slightly different way to another one and then be comforting to them during that time frame, almost as that extra mother or that extra father, that extra parent for them. And witnessing that, I got a sense of seeing literally that the golden rule, you know, treat others how you want to be treated because they're the ones that are in the control in that space. And how they step into that classroom and lead that classroom is going to determine how those kids move on. Whether they love school, hate school, love the teacher, hate the teacher. That teacher is part of that reason. And it was the same thing I saw with a lot of just the teams I played on, the people I've interacted with, whether it be domestic or international. How I engage and treat people is going to kind of set the tone from the beginning. Whether I'm mad, happy, sad, you know, or indifferent, my interaction with that person is going to go a very long way. Now, if they continue to go one way or the other, I can remove myself from the situation, but I can also make that person get really excited just by the way I interact with them so that that stood out right away. And then even my first ever baseball coach, who was a female and it was one of the only females I've had in a position ever throughout the course of my career. So it's T ball, and we're getting started. And one of the players, his mom decided to coach the team. And as you have a parent who's a coach, you can take it a ton of different ways. My. I can show favoritism to my child. I can really forget about everybody else, or I can treat everyone like they're my children. And she did that. She treated everyone like we were her kids. And that was really game changing. Because if that experience would have been bad, I would have said, mom, dad, I don't want to play anymore. And that could have been the first and last time I ever played baseball. But the experience that she gave in T ball, which was fun and it should have been fun, and she made it fun, made me say, you know what? This is fun. I want to do it again next year. And then it just continued to go and go and go. So those are some early ones right away. I think that really set the tone because I've seen it on the flip side, and I'm sure you had too, where you get that. That coach or that teacher or that instructor that you just don't like. And you're like, I like doing what I'm doing. I just don't like how that person is making me feel when I'm doing it. So because of that, I'm just going to remove myself from the situation and never come back to it. And we lose a lot of people that could have gone on to do some amazing things, all because of how the interaction was with the person who was in charge.

Yeah, no question. I mean, like, the impact that a mentor or a coach can have on you. I was blessed to have it my entire career. And when I meet people or I talk to people who don't have that, it sucks because, you know, it has such an impact. No one can do it by themselves. Everybody's got blind spots. And unless you have a true teller in your life that can call you out and help you because they care deeply about you, you know, it's. It's truly a blessing. And you only need a few. You really don't need that many people in your life. I wonder if that's. That mom knows the impact that she had on you. Like, I wonder if she, like, realizes just how special she was to be able to give you that gift when she was probably just doing what she normally does.

You know, being a mom, like, doing what? Doing what she felt was right, you know, she didn't come out and say, okay, all right. My plan is that all these, you know, it was just, hey, this is how I think it should be. And some people are. Don't realize that they're doing the reverse because that's how they think it is, whether they were brought up that way or not. So, you know, I stayed in touch with that family. She unfortunately passed away recently, but I stayed in touch with them up until then. You know, we're talking, wow, over 30 years, you know, just. Just crazy to think about how that that ended up being. But those coaches and mentors, you know, they can be around you more than your parents, depending on what the day looks like. Same thing with the teachers. You know, if I'm in School from 8 to 3, you know, and, and mom and dad don't get home to five, and when we get, we're in bed by, by 8 or 9 o', clock, you know, you start doing the math, you go, okay, I'm around some other people a lot longer than I am around my own parents, so they're really going to have some impact on me.

You know, as I was reading a little bit about you before the interview, I could see why the major league has leveraged you in a certain way. You have this likability factor. You're very articulate, and you could tell that you probably have some incredible deep relationships with a lot of people. Where did you learn that? Does it come naturally to you? Did you. Do you work on that? Like, is it. Is that something that just kind of. Just is innate or is it something that you kind of built as a skill?

I think it's. It's a little innate. My mom was recently talking to me about this and she was saying, like, you were always like the organizer, the planner, you know, everybody. You would invite everyone over to the house, we'd get the plans going, and then we would go off to do whatever it is we were going to do. And I don't know, I just liked having that control, but also making sure everyone was happy and comfortable. I mean, there's been a lot of times over the course of just my life where I've hosted things and everyone's always telling me, sit down and enjoy. And I look at it as, no, I need to make sure everyone else is good. Once everyone else is good, then I'll enjoy myself and I get joy knowing that everyone else is having a great time. Whether that's, you know, the sports side, the school side, a party, an event, travel, whatever it is. I'm gonna try to take as much off your plate as I can so you can enjoy it. And then once you're enjoying it, that's when I start to have my, my enjoyment. I think there's just been something in there for me because I know I'll, I'll always get there, but I want to make sure you have it. And if you're not having it, then it doesn't matter how much fun I'm having.

So, so it's a, it's a dangerous place to be.

Right.

Because individuals like yourself tend to be so giving that you can not be taken advantage of, even though you probably can. But the self care of making sure that you have to take care of yourself first so that you can take care of everyone else is. Can you tell me about a time where you were maxed out?

Do you.

Can you think of times where like you went too far, you did too much and at the, at the expense of even just your own personal health and mental being?

It. It's kind of ongoing now. You know, the great thing with our devices that we have, you know, we could put our schedule right there and see it and share with a ton of people. And I'll look at a schedule and say, wow, you know, I don't have anything going on for, you know, a month from now, you know, the last Friday of next month. But then I'll see that and an opportunity will come and I'll fill it. Oh, I got nothing going on. So what I've had to start doing is scheduling like me time. So I'll look at the days where I know I don't have anything and say, okay, from this time to this time, I'm just going to schedule it as me. Like it looks like there's an event there, but at least when I go back to look at it, oh, I have something going on that day. And that something is just, just me. And I have no idea what I may do in that time. It may be, you know, sleeping, organizing, going to the movies, shopping, eating. It could be anything. But that, that me time is important. And I've had to understand I have to start doing that because one month I'll look up, oh, next month I got nothing going on. It's gonna be great. And then I get to that month, what just happened to this month? And I got all these different things going on and it's all stuff that I want to do. But I kept forgetting that piece about me because like you said, I was always in that spot. I mean, it wasn't uncommon for me I used to love throwing New Year's Eve parties. And I would get, from the time we entered the door at, say, 9:00 clock until midnight, I'm moving and shaking and doing everything I need to. And then once we finally hit New Year's, then I finally got a chance to start enjoying myself. But everyone else has had a great time. I've enjoyed it. I was like, okay, I got to pull back just a little bit on some of these things. And that's been some of the stuff. It hasn't got to the point where it's messed with me, you know, my mental health or anything like that, but it could. And I think the fact that we've been able to identify it has definitely helped out.

Yeah. I have. I have a collaborative partnership with a gentleman named Gino Wickman, and he's big in the business world, and he has this thing that I absolutely love. He'll say, you have to. If you want to be successful in life and you want to be able to control your time management, you have to fall in love with saying no and almost in a devilish kind of way, and. And it sounds great, and it makes sense because you got to protect your time. What I found the problem was, is that when you start saying no to the things that you love because you just can't do everything, it's hard. It's very hard. Especially when you have people that you care about deeply and you want to help them and you just don't have time because you're doing other things that either are a bigger priority that you love. And, you know, it's a great problem to have, but it's not easy. And for a leader who is needed or wanted in either ways that can help other people, that can make it even harder because, you know, you can have an impact.

Right.

So I would imagine with your foundations, which we're going to get into in a little bit, you know, you can. You can do a thousand things, but you have to really be very methodical and deliberate about what you're doing and when you're doing it, or else you end up doing nothing.

It's been a challenge because instead of me saying no early on, I would just push things. Hey, let's do it later, let's do it later. But I still haven't said no. So it's still on the table. And a lot of times I was hoping other people would forget that. People don't. So it comes back. So I end up doing it. So then I went to the flip. Let me Just do it and get it off my to do list. And I'm just constantly doing things. And what's crazy, you mentioned about the no. There's such, you know, we talk about mental side of it and affecting you. The anxiety of wanting to say no, or I'm about to say no with just build. Then he said, no, and the person said, oh, okay.

You go, really?

That's all I'd say. It's like you just don't know what's behind that curtain until you actually pull it back and see. But you say no a lot of times. And my mom said, no is the answer and the reason all wrapped into one. You know, you don't have to go into any detail. No, I'm too busy, or no, I. You know, I would love to, but this, you know, the answer could just simply be no. But actually saying it is, to your point, one of the hardest things to do. But when you do it, it's really not that bad.

Yeah. You know, it's funny. I have a coach that I. That I've worked with before, and he used to say to me, when people are pressing you because they're curious and you give an answer, your answer can be no. And like you said, it's the reason. And you don't have to give your reason like you feel like you should, and you feel like you have to, and they're asking you. But sometimes no is your answer. That is your answer. Because I just don't want to do it.

I do not want to. I look back that. That would be some things, you know, I could change. In the past, I wish I would have said no to more things, but I always just found, like, oh, yeah, there's three hours. Great. This will take an hour. Cool, I'll do it. The next thing you know, it's like, all right, I went a little long. I forgot I had to go there. I forgot to come back. And next thing you know, my three hours are gone. I'm like, dang, I didn't get a chance to do that. Whatever it was I was planning to do with the remaining time, because that remaining time is now gone. It.

Right. Let me switch gears real quick. So my. My brand's called Authentic Authority, so you seem like a pretty transparent person. So I got a tough question for you. Good question is, what's the hardest thing that you've ever experienced, and how did you deal with it? Biggest struggle you've ever had, and how.

Did you deal with it? So remember, I got drafted in 2002. I made it to the big leagues in 2004. But in 2003, I was ready to quit baseball. I was done. I did not want anything to do with it. Not because of the game. There was a lot of things happening outside. I'd actually made the all star team in the Florida State League. Things are actually statistically wise looking pretty good. But I was hating life. If you've ever been down to the Florida State League, it's one of the most challenging leagues because Florida in the summertime is hot, it's humid, it may rain almost every day and you're utilizing the big spring training complexes that hold anywhere from five to 10,000 people. But again, those descriptives of that time of the year, 5 to 10,000 people aren't coming to sit out in 95 degree weather with 90 plus humidity with a chance of rain. So there's nobody there. And that's going on. I got some things that are going on back at home and I'm just like, oh. And a couple things saved me to get through that. I had next cell phone, I had free nights and weekends and once it would get nighttime, I had a couple buddies I would just always reach out to and we talked. Nothing about baseball. And that got me through. And the crazy part about it, I made it to the big leagues the next year. So I was literally like, once the season finishes, because my dad always said once you start something, just at least see it to the end of the season. And at the end, if you don't want to do it anymore, you could be done. My goal was once the season ends, that's it. I'm going to go put my degree to work and go from there. And at the end of the year, it started to get a little better. The temperature dropped. We had what was called instructional league. So a couple additional players joined the team that I was a little bit more comfortable with, had, you know, just really good chemistry with and that got me through the season. Prior to the season, I had some of those older players that just did not want to be there that were not very helpful and just. They didn't necessarily do anything to me. But the, what do you call it? Bad just vibes. You could just feel it. And. And I'm a believer if you come into the room negative, some of that stuff may get on me. And I felt like it did and I was done. And it was a rough spot for about, I'd say about four or five months. And you know, I had to talk to our mental skills, people with the team like I said, my buddy, one of my buddies, Joe Lacy, was a huge impact just for venting, getting it out, you know, not keeping it bottled up. And then the next year, come back refreshed and go to Double A, roll through, and at the end of the Double A season, get called up to the big leagues.

Is it. Is it easy for you, if you're struggling with something, to be able to kind of pour it out to someone that you trust? I mean, a lot of people struggle being transparent, having some vulnerability, especially in the sports world. I mean, I've interviewed a lot of people, professional athletes, and there's definitely a tough guy image that you kind of have to kind of feel like you. You have to be. And yet the most humble people that I've talked to and the most real people have no problem just sharing what it is. Like, this is what happened. This is how I dealt with it. And whatever it is. Is that easy for you to be able to, like, just kind of not necessarily pour your heart out and tell everybody everything, but when you need to lean on someone, share with them what's going on?

At first, I. I get quiet, I get reserved. So, you know, if you know me and you're around me, you can see I like to talk. So if I'm all of a sudden not talking and, you know, okay, what's wrong now? I may not give it up right away, but eventually it'll come out. And I think it's just a matter of the timing part of it. It may not be ready at the moment you ask, but it'll come out. And for whatever reason, I think, you know, just better out than in. You know, for a number of different reasons. When you're sick, you know, and you're. You're inside, they always say, you know, get it out. You know, once you get it out, it can help your body start to feel a lot better. And I feel like it's the same thing with whatever issue you have going on. And I remember our mental skills. People would come around every so often because in the minor leagues, you had one person that was for every organization, for every team. So they would go to Double A, they'd go to Triple A, go to the minor, you know, go to all these different places, and we happened to be in town. There's just a lot of downtime in. In that Florida State League. And I was like, let me just go talk to him. And I pulled into the side outside of the locker room and just said, hey, I just want to talk to you about a couple Things here, and we just started chatting. Like, he wasn't really, like, given issues. It was just literally getting it out. And that part was just so helpful for me. And I honestly don't even remember what he said back to me, but just that interaction was helpful. And then throughout the course of my career, there were times that I would lean on, you know, our mental skills, guys, and very rare was it, okay, I'm struggling baseball wise. It was other things that I was dealing with that was probably affecting the baseball side of things, you know, with the Yankees, Chad Bowling was one of the individuals and I, I reached out to him about the same thing. The. What we just talked about, you know, saying no, you know, the number of requests that were coming at me and just trying not to feel bad about it. So I had talked about that. Wasn't anything about hitting, wasn't anything about playing in New York and the Yankees or going up against the Red Sox and a tough rivalry. It was that stuff, you know, I was dealing with, you know, with the Met. Same things, you know, the individuals there I spoke with. So it just became something that, that I, I felt that it was helpful and having that person was something I always recommended. It didn't have to be a professional. Just had to be somebody that, you know, will listen and you can just get it out. They may respond back, they may not. You, You. They may provide a response or a solution, they may not. But just getting it out, I think, is just so key.

Yeah, I mean, look, it's the road less traveled. There's a reason why, you know, certain people love therapy and some people hate it. Some people like coaching, some people don't. And, you know, it's hard. Some people have a real hard time, you know, sharing. And, you know, one thing I saw in my business was I could always tell when something was going wrong because someone would be in their office and their door would be closed, you know, more than it usually would be. And you just know. And it's interesting because, you know, the Navy SEALs, they have. They have a way of testing their guys. And what they do is when they're at their, you know, I think it's when they're like, just completely fatigued. They're. I think they're going in for a checkup with the doctor, and the doctor will ask them that question that I asked you, like the hardest thing you ever experienced and how'd you deal with it? And they're, look, they don't care what you say, but they're looking for guys who go dark and shelter up and suppress and go by themselves or the guys who lean in and they start kind of connecting to the people who. That is their support. Because for Navy SEALs, it's life or death. I mean, if you're on the. If you're on the. On the battlefield, you know, and you start going through the hardest thing you've ever experienced, and you, you know, are by yourself, that's not going to be. That's not going to be someone they want on their team. And it just shows up everywhere, right? Like at work, it really, you know, people used to say that, like, oh, I have these problems. I leave it at the door. I'm like, no, you don't. You don't. And stop trying to, because that's not real. You know, like, that's. It doesn't go away just because you leave it at the door. And, you know, people, I think in sports and also in the workforce, I think, you know, you say, well, we're a family, but the reality is you're not a family. And at the end of the day, everyone goes home to their own situation, and everyone's struggling with something. Everybody. So, like, you know, I think being a leader and being able to, like, tune into that and, you know, realize that, like, when you said when you went to him, you know, it was nothing special. He just talked to me. You don't realize when people are talking to you, sometimes they've got that going on, and you're that rock that they're coming to. So I would imagine you had a lot of guys talking to you with your personality, and whether you knew it or not at the time, that you probably helped a lot of people just because I could tell your personality is very electric, and I could tell the people you people are probably attracted to. So I'm curious, did that serve you? Well, I know you traveled around the world, and that was pretty big opportunity for you. How different was the culture, connecting with people? And what did you learn about that experience going around the world?

The coolest thing about traveling the world is you get to see how things are similar, but they're also different. And especially in places where English wasn't the primary language, and I didn't necessarily know the language where we were going to. You know, I tried to connect with them with the things I knew that would be relatable. So I always leaned in on education. No matter where it was in the world. I always felt like everyone's eyes popped open when I said, hey, this gave me an opportunity to get an education. And then they're interested. And then, you know, physically, I'm not the tallest. I'm not the biggest, I'm not the strongest. So we would be in different places, and people would be around my size, around my height, you know, maybe a little bit taller, bigger, smaller. But I wasn't the seven foot. A tall basketball player coming in saying, all right, everyone, let's play basketball. And everyone's looking at me going, I'm not that tall. You know, so those things helped. And then I would try to adjust to what was happening. If I was going really fast and I felt things were slower, I would slow it down. You know, I. If I never felt like anything was too basic. So even if I was in a place in the Far east, for example, I got a chance. I was fortunate enough to go to Japan, Korea, China, and Taiwan. And if you don't know, the assumption is, well, Japan plays baseball. All four of them must play baseball. Well, Japan has been playing for a very long time. Korea has been playing for a very long time. Taiwan or Chinese Taipei, depending what you want to call it, they've been playing, but China itself has not been playing. And when I got there, right away, I was like, all right, let's get ready to roll. And I'm realizing that they haven't been playing nearly as long as everybody else. So we had to take some steps back. And there was no. No shame in it. Nothing at all. We just had to start, you know, at level one or level two versus going right into level nine or level ten. And I hope, and I assume that it was appreciated that I didn't come in right away. You don't know this. How do you not know that? What am I doing here? You don't know this. I never looked at it that way. I was so excited that I was welcomed and I was trying to take as much information for myself is in addition to give. So when I can leave out and just talk about some of the differences that I learned and bring back and add it to my culture, it was as exciting for me as I hope it was for them. And that was one of the coolest things. Just about traveling all across the world, the places that knew baseball had learned it, we're learning it, or were already entrenched in it. It was a wide range and I mean, same thing. Treated everybody with respect out there. I was no bigger or better. My job title was just different.

Very cool.

Very cool.

All right, so we're running out of time, and I. I can talk to you all day. I Got a few more questions and then I want to jump into your foundations.

No worries. Yeah, this is cool. Let's keep it going.

So this. So I'm curious you have I saw something about your love for wrestling? Yeah. Can you just tell me a little bit about that so I can understand it? Because I'm a wrestler, so I want to make sure I understand. I know this is a little bit of a different type of wrestling in the entertainment world world, but where did that come from? Is this always when you were a kid? I mean, what's the deal behind that?

So my grandmother on my dad's side got me into at the time wwf, I think there might have still been NWA and WCW was just popping in on the scene. But I still have in my office upstairs a junkyard dog, Glass I got from one of my aunts, I think it was hacksaw Jim Duggan Glass in there. So we would always record pay per views and when my grandmother would come to stay, she would not only watch me, but she would watch these recorded pay per views. And my parents would come home and ask how I was doing. And I'm practicing moves on the pillows and stuff all in front of her. And that's how it all started. And the only reason I'm not as involved in it now is because the baseball schedule just would start to get in the way. But you know, all the way up through the Attitude era and Monday night Nitro and Raw, like that's when I was heavily into it. And then when I got into pro ball, I'm playing every Monday night, I'm playing every Thursday night, I'm playing Sunday, I'm traveling Sunday. Like ah, I'm missing what's going on. But most recently I got a chance to go to AEW all out here in Chicago a couple times. I saw CM Punk make his return here. Obviously I know he's now in WWE now. I saw Bryan Danielson, you know, make his appearance in AEW here. So that's been my love. I'm just really behind on the storylines. I have no idea who's who's face and all that stuff right now, but it's, it's really cool. And that's what got me into it and I always enjoyed it.

That's so great. I was a super Fly Snicker fan.

Yes.

Tell me if you were to think about the one moment as a team in your career highlight, the biggest highlight you could think of, the most exciting, the one that just made you kind of want to crawl out of your Skin, like, what. What would you. What, set it up for me and just like, which game was it? What team were you on? What was the scenario? And why was that, like the biggest moment that you can think of as a team that you experienced?

Let's see. Biggest moment as a high schooler. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

High school. I mean, hold on a second. Major league.

Oh, we're going all through. Yeah, we're going.

We're going.

Biggest.

The biggest moment you've had in your career, when you think about it like, this is you're most proud of as a team. Like, if you tell a story over, this is the one you're going to tell.

So. And it's funny because every time I tell this one, so, you know, now we got all that in there. It actually ended up in a loss. But the moment was so crazy and so intense. It's that game 163, Detroit Tigers versus the Minnesota Twins and the old Metrodome and the regular season finishes on a Sunday. We're supposed to play on Monday because the playoffs are going to start. But the American League Central, we don't know who's won the division. We're tied. So we need one extra game. But now, Brett Favre is now playing for the Vikings and they're playing the packers in Minnesota on Monday night. So they push our game to Tuesday. And whenever there's a football game that would play in the Metrodome, the seat configuration is slightly different. So there'd be more seats, obviously for a football game than it would be for a baseball game. Game. Well, after they have the Monday night game, we're playing it, they leave that seat configuration. So instead of the stadium being, I don't know, 35,000, it's now 45,000. And this place is as loud as I've ever heard anything. There was one point, we made a pitching change. I'm in center field and I have my glove rested on my hip. I'm just relaxing out there. It's the seventh, eighth inning and I could feel the base in my glove. It was like I had a 12 inch subwoofer in my glove on my hip pocket. I go, this is insane. We go, I think 12 innings, we end up losing on a walk off. But it had everything. It had excitement, it had bad plays, it had good plays, it had people losing the ball in the dome. It had all these different things and that was the one of them that was, that will always stand out. And what's funny, even prior to the game, we arrive in Minnesota, we go out to eat as a team. And there's this restaurant, I think it's called seven and on the rooftop, it gets kind of clubby, loungey, stuff like that. But it's a Sunday night, so it's not that busy. So we go there, we get ready to eat, and we've been to the club part a lot. You know, you get your bottle service, you do all this, that and the other. You pay whatever prices on this night. Here come the servers and stuff with two bottles of Grey Goose for free. Here you go. This is on the house. We're looking at each other like, we can't drink this. We got a game to play. But the one night where. Where we. We would have loved to have it, they don't give it to us for free. Now it's. We got a biggest game of our careers at this point. And here's all the alcohol that you want. So I will say we did not drink any of it. We ate our food. No one got sick. Everything was good. But I was like, wow, that actually happens. They're trying to get us wasted before the big game. But it was just a cool experience. Like I said. Unfortunately, we did lose. But, you know, I wouldn't trade that experience for anything else. It was just so exciting.

Very cool. I remember the first time I went to Ohio State game. It was a mission game. And I remember sitting. It was 100,000 people, and you felt the bounce of the entire stadium. So like, I.

It just.

It does something for you. It makes you feel. It just. It's crazy. Okay, so last baseball question is. Same question, but for you personally, you know, let's just say you're throw a rock out, 30 years from now, you're telling stories to little kids, and you. You reminisce about that one moment. For you personally, in your career, what was it? What was? Same thing, same setup. Like, what was. What are you most proud of? Like your mo. Your one. Your one moment in the. In the major league with as many seasons as you have under your belt. Which one kind of really makes you feel really good when you think about it?

Yeah, if you're looking statistically, I would say the 20. 20. 2020 season that was in 2007. The 20 stolen bases, 20 home runs, 20 doubles, 20 triples even. Most recently, I was just in the Bahamas. Don't Blink, which is an organization that hit. They. They do the Home Run Derby into the ocean with the players alliance. We partner with them. They bring a lot of the young and current players. We bring a lot of the veteran and retired players and hall of Famers together. So you literally have four to five generations of players together. And Akil Badu, current Detroit Tiger. You know, he's mentioned this to me now two or three times, but every time I see him, he always talks and he goes, man, you know, I had nine triples last year. I was like, yeah, you know, I'm going to break the record for triples. And I was like, who has the most triples in a season with the Tigers? And then I look up and it's your name with 23 triples. And it's that part of it that, that is so cool because the triple, that was my thing, you know, and to have as many as I did in that year to etch my name in that category. Only four players have ever done the 20, 20, 2020. Jimmy Rollins did it the same year I did. So we became number two three and number four. But those 20 triples, I mean, you look back at years past, I think it's, it's 10 is now a lot. So that's one of those cool stats I'll be able to look back on. I'm not sure if that part of the game will come back, but I, but I have that part on my resume. I led the league in triples two years in a row. And you know, that 23 is, is really cool to have it.

So, so cool. Did you ever, did you ever hit a home run to win a game?

Yes. One of the biggest home runs I hit, I made it to the big leagues in 2004. I'm up in the big leagues in 2005. The Tigers were kind of middle to the bottom of the path, so it's not as impactful for us. But we're playing the Chicago White Sox and they're trying to make their playoff push to get in. It's about three or four games left in the season and they're struggling. They're losing every game. If they keep losing, they're not going to get in. And Chicago's home for me. That's where I'm from. Born and raised, still live here. Today we're playing the White Sox in Detroit. I hit a walk off home run that I think drops them in the standings again. My friends and family text, don't you remember where you're from? You, where you came from? How are you doing? I was like, I don't play for Chicago. But that was one of the biggest ones I remember because I had all these friends and family that were like, this is so awesome. You're in the big leagues to. I can't stand you. What are you doing? All in a matter of. That's that sport, that fandom, that fanatics, you know, for a reason. So that was really cool. And that was in 2005.

You ever hear Grand Slam?

Yes, I hit 10 over the course of my career.

Unbelievable. I mean, I asked you the most important. You're Tommy, out of all the things you've had, you've 10 grand slams, what was. Which one was the biggest one?

Probably number 10, because I didn't know it was the 10th one. It happened. I was with Toronto in Kansas City and they said it's his 10th one. And I was like, oh, wow. And I was like, I hit 10. Like, that's so cool. Like, you know, you always think about being in that moment. I didn't realize I had that many opportunities, you know, 2,000 games and all those different moments, you know, there was one here and one there and one here, one there and then. And that was the 10th one.

How many guy, how many guys have done that?

I mean, yeah, I'm not. I would assume there's a good amount. You know, you start thinking back to, you know, the day when players were hitting 5 and 6 and 700 home runs. I would assume they have a lot of grand slams, but a lot has to go, right? You know, you have to be in the situation where everyone's on base and then only in that situation you got to hit a home run. So you could hit a lot of home runs and no one's on base. But those people have to be on base. So thanks to all the base runners.

That happened, you think about over 2,000 games. When I, when you think about what Cal Ripken did with how many, it just, it's mind boggling. It doesn't even make sense.

He wasn't thick. He didn't have a, you know, he didn't stub his toe. You know, he didn't have a batter. He didn't like facing, you know, he just didn't wake up on the wrong side of the pillow one night. Like, how, how like that's a record. There's a lot of records in sports that they say will never be broken. And, and they, you can argue about them all, but that one, that's. I think it's 16 straight seasons without missing a day. That's insane. And right now the closest active, I think is four or 500 games. So you're talking about still 1800 more games this person has to play. Oh, not only do you have to still be good enough to be in the big leagues at that time, but then you have to, like, not have any of those ailments happen, which I just don't see that's going to happen. Right.

It's unbelievable. Where did you get your. So let's transition now. We're running out of time. So the money you get in the major leagues, you financially hit this bracket where you know you're in the top 1% and it's the 1% of the 1% and it changes things. And my first question is, did you have people who helped you with the managing, with understanding, with avoiding mistakes, common mistakes? I mean, is it talked about? Do they give you education? Is that something that you were good at, or is it something you need to get help with?

I'm still learning. I don't know if I was ever really great at it, but I had some understanding. I would watch my parents balance their checkbook, so I would see that I didn't know exactly what or how or what we needed or, you know, how we were budgeting, but I saw that. And I'm a junior, my dad's a senior. So when I was younger, if you remember. And how old are you?

I'm 48.

Okay. So we're in that same, you know, time frame. 42. There was that time frame where, you know, you would take a credit card, give it to the kid, and there's usually like a note associated with it. Hey, my son or daughter can use the credit card here. I have give them approval. Right. Remember those days? So my dad would give me the credit card and they'll say, hey, you can go get one thing or two things or let me know when you do it. So even early on, I mean, that's a lot of responsibility you're putting on that child. I could have went crazy then go to college. I didn't have a credit card. So my parents gave me a emergency, quote, unquote emergency card, because me and my dad had the same name. So there would be a day. And I'm staying in the city of Chicago. That's where my school's located. I'd go out and say, hey, mom, dad just went out to eat. You know, I put $50 on the card. I'm just letting you know. So I didn't want to upset them. I didn't want to call and say, mom, Dad. I did $5,000 on the card. Right. I knew that call wasn't going to be good. So that was my financial Education, I guess. Then I get my first credit card in college. And the reason I got it, they had, you got a free T shirt when you signed up. So I got a free Superman T shirt. And I still have that. That credit card to this day. I've been a member since, oh, two, I think it says on that card. So. But. But I. I would get checks, and I would pay off my bills. I put everything on autopay. So my cell phone bill, I think I had. I had my rent, had a couple things, and whatever was left, I would just automatically slide it to the savings account because for some reason in my head, I was like, okay, I just don't want to run out. I don't know why that entered my mind. I just didn't want to run out. I guess I remembered seeing those stories of celebrities and athletes like, lo, I don't want to be that. I don't want to be that. And that was my understanding. So then when I started to get a team around me, it was just. I always ask, hey, am I good? You know, am I good? Can I do this? And it was just, you know, to have that reassurance and backup. So I still. I guess I still don't know it all, but my whole thing is always like, I just want to make sure I'm good, whatever that is.

You went from at one point, when you get your contract, your first big contract, that you start making some real money, you go from A to Z, right? So was that as exciting as you thought it would be? Like, your worldview on money, your belief on money, how much did it change? What is it today? I mean, you know, I read something that you had. You had done either some endorsements, and you didn't even take the money. You had them donate the money to your foundations.

Yeah.

Just rare. It's rare people have that. So obviously it's rooted in this belief that you have about money. And I'm curious to know, like, as you transition from, you know, the average guy to all of a sudden making some big bucks, where did you get that from? Is it just because enough's enough?

Is it.

Is it because you just have a giving heart? Have you always been that way?

I think there's two parts, you know, working backwards from the. The giving side of it. I learned early on that if my endorsement company gave me a dollar in cash, that was different than me getting a dollar worth of shoes, because for the company, I could get more, right? I could get maybe two or three pairs of shoes for that same dollar. And I knew I was going to take some of this money and say, hey, you know, I want to give out these shoes here. I want to do that. That. So instead I said, instead of just giving me the cash, can you just give me the equipment? Or instead of paying it to me in cash, pay it to my foundation so that way I can do the things that I know I want to do. So I learned that, and I said, okay, I'm going to start shifting and doing that stuff with my endorsement side of it. And then from the actual paycheck from the team, I think probably the biggest thing was when I received my first paycheck and I saw all the deductions, you know, I realized that we get taxed at every city and state we play in, as long as they aren't a no state tax. So a Florida and Texas, you. Or a Tennessee, you know, you don't get taxed there. But places like Pennsylvania, not only do you have a city and a state, but you had a field usage tax, you had an entertainment tax. In some states, you had all these different things. I just started seeing all these, These, these lines go down, and I was like, that's when I realized that whatever you thought wasn't a lot really isn't a lot. Because if I have a dollar, as soon as I put 10 into front of you, it's like, wow, 10's a lot. Then I put a hundred, okay, hundred's a lot. And you just keep going and you start realizing, okay, there's just a lot more out there. For example, that's what I made, but there's someone that is paying me. So how much the did they make and how much are they making? Like, I always looked at it from that standpoint. Even the. The most recent Shohei Ohtani deal, everyone is like, wow, how do you. How does a person make that much money? No one. I haven't seen any comment come out saying, the Dodgers make this much. And they're, wow, how are the Dodgers gonna. You know, it's. It's. It's about the individual, but the company, the. The business has to be able to afford that. And he's not the only one they're paying. So you know that that's the way I've started looking at it going there. There's always something bigger, and whatever you has, there's going to be something that gets checked away. You got to take care of yourself, got to take care of your family, got to pay your taxes. You got to do all that stuff. So, like, I Said, I just want to make sure I got enough, whatever that is. I just want to make sure I don't go run out.

You know, I recently had an interview with Lawrence Moroney from Patriots, and he talked about his first signing bonus and when he got it and then he saw the lines. Yeah, it's like, what is this? Like, what are all. You know, and it's amazing. And it's all relative, right? Because, you know, what's a lot of money? Well, it depends on who you're comparing that to. And I think, you know, the one thing I've learned about just the progression of it is that you're always going to want more, because as soon as you get more and you start spending more, you got to make more to be able to afford what you're ever. Whatever you're buying, whatever you're getting, whatever you're moving into or driving. And it's just a game. It's just, you know, it's definitely our today's culture's addiction of just chase after money. You know, this rat race of just more, more, more, more, more. And our society just reads into it. And it's, it's a, it's a hard thing, especially for kids going to college today who, you know, they come out, they spend $100,000 on college, they come out in debt, and they come out with a piece of paper and, and people don't care.

And, you know, like you said, that's the rat race for N. And that's like the big motivator. So whenever I, I do, like, a school visit, you know, I always open it up for question and answer. And one of the first questions is how much money you make. And there's always a faculty member. Don't ask him that. And I said, no, no, ask. I'll let you know. Ask anything. And I'm going to answer two. One, if I. Even if I don't answer, you can Google it and find out. Right. But two, want to answer it. Just so you know, because you never know what anyone's motivation is, is. Right? Maybe my motivation is to make as much money as I can. I didn't realize I can make as much as I could doing this. Now, that doesn't mean you're going to become a professional baseball player. But then I always shifted and say, okay, I remember right after I got signed by the New York Mets, the owners, the Will Ponds at the. Oops, sorry about that. The Will Ponds, at that time, they actually flew in to see me. I was doing a school visit in My hometown. And they came to it. And I was asked that question. And as I'm answering it, I point it to both of them. I said, I make this much money, but they pay me. Imagine how much money they make. So if you're looking for motivation, go, like, find out how to become an owner. Find out how to be on top. Find out, like, the education is so key to get to that point. So I. I'm gonna always drive it back to that for these kids and go, okay. You never know what their motivation is. And it may be money. I mean, you just said it like. Like that we're all in this space, we're always chasing. But if they don't know, then they may not know exactly which direction to start putting in.

Go.

You could be an owner. You can be one of the tops. You can be a, you know, not only sports, but a business owner. And that's gonna give you a possibility to make a lot of money if that's what you want. That might be a route you have to start looking into. But in order to get there, you gotta educate yourself. It doesn't necessarily mean the traditional, like you gotta get a degree, but you got to understand the business you're going into, and that's still a form of education to me.

If you had a kid, a high school kid, ask you, do you think I should go to college? What would you say?

Is he a athlete or non athlete? Both.

So both scenarios.

All right, so if he's an athlete, I'm gonna put him back in my scenario. And I go, you got to look at, you know, where you are, and it's going to be more of a physical and mental thing versus the financial side of it. Because I think if. Let's just say this high school student athlete is a baseball player and has a chance to potentially get drafted and go straight to the. To professional baseball versus college. I think there's a couple things we have to look at. One, can you do your own laundry? Have you ever been away by yourself for more than three days? You know, there's certain responsibilities I think college teaches you that you may not have learned up to this point. Now, if you've learned all that and you've been doing all that, you're already well ahead of the game. And then physically, where are you? I was 165 pounds when I graduated high school. Physically, I wouldn't have been able to go and go straight into professional baseball. On the flip side, some of my teammates were 200 pounds when they got drafted out of High school, that's a big difference. That's a man versus a boy. So that there's that side of it.

Although not now with nil. Right.

And now, you know, college was such a great thing for me just to develop, understand, you know, time management and setting goals and discipline too. I missed there's some consequences for my actions and things like that. And now you add the nil stuff in there, there could be some financial ability to go now if it's just a student. I think you have to understand what it is you want to do. And it's hard as a 17 and 18 year old to know exactly what you want to potentially do for the rest of your life. I think there's a stat that 50% people would get their degree and don't work in that field. And even me, I started out as an accounting major and I changed after the first semester to a business management major and then I added marketing a semester after that. So saying okay, I'm going to go to college and study this as a 17, 18 year old where I don't know exactly what it is I want to do, I think is a tough question to lock yourself into. And I always say like 16, age 16 is the biggest five year swing on both sides I think you'll ever have in your life. Think about of five years prior you were in grade school, five years afterwards you can vote, you can go to the military, you can drink, you can go to college, you can do all this stuff all within five years plus and five years minor. Like you're 48, right? Once you get to five, five plus. Let's see, what are the next couple things for you? You know, prostate exam, colonoscopy. Right? You see what I'm saying? Like there's nothing major that's happening in this five year window for you and I, but for a three, a 16 year old, and now we're talking 17 about to graduate 18 and we're saying I possibly go to college and declare your major right away and maybe take on all this debt. That's a tough thing to put us all in and that's the way we're in right now. But at the same time I come from a family of educators. Both my parents taught, my sister currently teaches at the university level. I was at the time one of a handful of major league players with a college degree. So I see the importance of it, but it's not for everybody. So I think you have to kind of know where yourself is and you can always go back to school. You know, if you don't want to start today, you can always go. And you also have to realize, do I want to take on all this debt? I got a cousin of mine who received some scholarships, and at the end of his four years, he still owed $160,000. It's like, geez, you know, like, take a long time to pay that off, you know.

What, what year did you stop playing baseball?

2020 in January. And then the world shut down in March. And people blame me.

Wow. So tell me the Drew, tell me about your foundations. You got two foundations that you founded?

Yes.

Tell me about them.

So the first one was founded in 2007. That was the Grandkids foundation, now known as the Curtis Granderson foundation, and that was in Detroit. You know, the main purpose of that was showing the importance of education, using baseball and softball as the vehicle, get kids active, continue to give more kids an opportunity to play. From that point, it then grew. I got a chance to partner with Michelle Obama's Let's Move campaign to help fight childhood obesity. And that was very important because Mississippi was one of the most obese states at the time. And both of my parents are from Mississippi. My current. My sister currently teaches in Mississippi. So I have a lot of family and roots in Mississippi. So I was really drawn to that and getting around it. And again, just with kids, just continue to find ways to keep them active. And when we're in shape and we're active, we can be more motivated to do other different things. Then we started doing some food insecurity issues, making sure kids and family know where their next meals are coming from. So it's one thing to keep them moving and keep them active, but we also got to keep them fed as well. So that's what the Grandkids foundation has been doing since 2000 and 22,007. We just wrapped up our grand giving month of giving throughout the month of November here in Chicago, where we partner with one of the grocery stores here. And all the proceeds benefit the Greater Chicago Food Depository in the Northern Illinois Food Bank. So for anyone listening, you can go to grandgiving.org to learn more about that. And then at my alma mater, UIC Illinois Chicago, I was able to donate money there back in 2014 to help build the stadium. And then in 2016, once we were able to get it off and going, we started what's called the Chicago Baseball and Educational Academy. So the stadium was built for the university to provide baseball opportunities for the student athletes there, which was, you know, helped me get to where I am today. But being that we're in the heart of the city, I also wanted to make it available for the community to be able to first get a chance to step on a college campus. Because a lot of these kids that come through, this may be the first and possibly the only time they're on a college campus is through cbea. So we get them there for that. And it's all year long. You're from Cleveland, I'm from Chicago. It gets cold in the winter. But we also have the indoor facility as well that's fully turfed out and we get the kids all out there. We've done umpire camps, we've done coaches camps, we've done youth tournaments, we've done. We've actually been home a couple times for the Cubs and the White Sox when they come in town for their fan fest. Some of their players have come to train and work out there. It's also where I trained at when I was playing as well to get myself ready for the season. So for more information about that. C b e a uic.org and we're on social as well. So it's been really cool to do that and just continue to provide opportunities for all these individuals and. And a lot of people ask, you know, are you trying to get more major leaguers out of this? And I said, yeah, get to the major leagues is hard, but if we can continue to show that the opportunities are available for them, then you may start to get your first person in their family to go to college, first person to go on to start this business, first person to, you know, become a trainer. That first additional female that was the first female to coach me, could be a coach, could be an umpire, could be in this space. So. So those are my goals from this. Just to continue to provide the opportunities and then let the future take them. They make it to the major leagues, great. But this isn't the whole thing about trying to get more major leaguers. I just want to provide more opportunities for kids and families all around there.

Got a question about the fundraising of it. So being Jewish and having a pretty big impact, trying to have a big impact in my community. As you can see right now, by. With the war going on, not many people raise their hand and say, hey, let's go help the Jewish institutions. It's just not a very popular thing. And so there's. For me and the success in my business and be able to use my business to be able to help support community efforts. It's a very personal thing.

For me.

So for you in your world, I would imagine it's the opposite in that you could probably make a few calls to some people, you know, in the major leagues and say, look, I need help. Here's what I'm doing with these kids. Here's what I'm doing in our community. Here's how I'm connecting at the baseball. I'm curious, do you make those calls? Is it easy for you if you needed it? Do you have a big budget or do you just say, look, I'm flipping the bill because I can. So I'm just going to, and I don't like to ask other people, you know, for money, but you're actually giving people a gift by giving them the opportunity to come help you. Right. So I'm curious to know how, how that mentally plays out and how it actually acts itself out in your life.

Life. So I have a range of friends, you know, just like everybody else. You know, I have people that are just a standard, you know, they have a normal 9 to 5 job and I have people that have made a lot, you know, in their nine to five jobs. And I, I, I, I go depending on what it is. So I, I did a lot of in person camps. Whether it was moving around for our let's move. We would do a fitness challenge, we did the dodgeball, the kickball tag, all that stuff. We would do baseball camps. We'd have all these different things. So I knew I had able and willing bodies that would want to be out there. So I never had to hire staff to come do these things. I could pick up the phone and get 20 people to come out and volunteer that were all engaged and excited and people I personally know. So all our camps were always full from that standpoint. People that just wanted to be out there and volunteer. From a donation standpoint, it's interesting. I've never really leaned on the people I know that have big pockets and say, hey, I'm doing this. Do you want to help? I like to utilize them and say if you can just support by showing up or if you can support by spreading the word, because I feel like that helps on, you know, get things out there on a bigger platform. And then in terms of budget and funding it, a lot, a lot of it I haven't funded. Now I built the stadium, I, I put the big piece to build the stadium. But CBEA runs and operates from donations and partnerships that we have, not that I've put in. Grandkids foundation operates off of funds that we've received not money that I've put in. I'm just trying to spread the word, be out there and continue to keep doing everything on that. So it's a unique situation. I could easily say, all right, let me just go ahead and fund it and dump in there. But I think people have supported and understood the mission of what we're trying to do and realized that even a dollar really can go a long way. You don't have to have the biggest checkbook to. To have some impact. Your time and just a little bit of interest, you know, could really go a very long way. And I think that's been very helpful and hopefully it continues, you know. But if need be, you know, there is, you know, I could, you know, go ahead and step in in a bigger way if need be.

Really cool. Where's the most. Most of your time spent, you know, like today? Like, you know, like, what, where, where, where. If you look at your time management and you look at your calendar over the next, you know, week, week, where, where. Where do you spend most of your time?

In this room, where I'm talking to you right now. Actually, I am on the computer and the phone a lot. You know, everyone's like, oh, you're retired. What are you doing? Especially now it's off season, so there's baseball stuff going on, but I don't have to necessarily comment and talk about baseball, but it's. It's emails and calls for both of the foundations. I also serve as the board chair for the players alliance, so I definitely consider myself a working board on all three of these initiatives. And then it's, you know, whether it's meetings or interview requests, the great thing, you know, love it or hate it, with zoom like we're on now, it's given us ability to do all this stuff without me having to travel, so I can do it in the comfort of my home. But at the same time, the last two days I haven't been outside and it's been nice in Chicago. I gotta go outside today. I've just been on the phone and on the computer doing stuff for the last couple days because I was traveling recently. So I'm playing catch up on a lot of stuff. Stuff. But a lot of time is spent here. But. But I like that I'm doing the things that I, I knew I wanted to do in post baseball and trying to find ways to be able to help and assist. Just some of it just takes a lot of time to get going. Do you think you.

Do you have a desire to coach?

No. Not at all. Do not want to do that. I've been rumored in a couple managerial jobs and I was like, no. Partly because the schedule is just too long towards the end of my career. I remember seeing managers and coaches lead to the stadium from the hotel around 12 o' clock and the game wouldn't be till 7 and then the game finishes at 10 o' clock and there's two buses. There's the first bus that might leave at, you know, 10:45 and the second bus leaves at like 11:15. And they're on that bus. So you're the first one there, you're the last in the lead. And we're doing that 162 times, plus the playoffs, plus spring training. I go, there's just a bunch of other stuff I'd want to be doing during this time. I'm just not ready to do that. So I enjoy being around the game. I definitely want to have some impact if I can provide it, but coaching it isn't the way that I'd want to do it. Right.

That's interesting. Did you play softball when you were younger here?

So I didn't play softball in the traditional sense, but my dad is actually in the 16 inch softball hall of fame. Wow. 16 inches of Chicago thing. It's like think of a, an old school medicine ball. It's this big. It starts out really hard, but the more you hit it, it gets soft and doughy. And he played that. So I was always around it. I would get brought to the park with him, I'd see his team. All his teammates knew me, I was there for his induction. So I was around it, but I never played softball. And then the one other time where I actually had a very bad moment with softball, I'm traveling to New Zealand and New Zealand, I'm there promoting baseball, but New Zealand is actually one of the best fast pitch softball countries in the world for men's. So they said, all right, let's see how you can hit against softball. Like, oh, no, this is not going to be good. I've seen this. I know this doesn't go well. I haven't been swinging. So I get out there and they have one of the top pitchers in the world and he's just gassing me up and I, I finally foul tip a ball like 20 pitches in. I was like, all right, success. I did it. Get out of here. But I, I had no chance. It's just the timing and the angle and all that stuff. So that was my one moment into it. If I Had some more time to spend. I, I, I would assume I can get better at it it. But that one did not go very well.

That's hilarious. That's hilarious. So you see Norman on the zoom call with us.

Yes.

Hey, dad, go ahead and put your video and your microphone on real quick. Hopefully he can hear me right now. See if he can. Come on if you're there, dad. If he's, I don't know. Hopefully he didn't get up. Here it comes. Here it comes. This is, this is my dad. Norman, you there, dad? Oh, yeah, I'm here. Let me see that video.

Go.

So, Curtis, my dad apparently was, I was, I was a very young, I was really young. And dad, tell, tell Curtis, you, you first off. This is Norman, my dad. I just wanted. How you doing, Curtis?

I'm doing well. Nice to meet you.

Dad, tell them about the softball that you hit that I've heard about my telling my son and everyone else in my family. We went away for a vacation and we up in the Catskills and they had a softball game. I hit a ball that's still going.

I love it. See, it's still going.

It hasn't landed yet. It was hit that hard.

Was it one of the yellow ones?

It was. I don't even remember. You know, the funny story is we were at some place called the Neville, and I was a little kid, and I got lost, and I'm thinking I got lost. I was freaking out, crying hysterically in an elevator somewhere there. And meanwhile, everyone's outside watching the softball keep going.

Color off the ball.

I like was really a great interview. I really enjoyed this. Yeah. Curtis, I want you to know I really appreciate it, man. You are, you are a blast to talk to. And, you know, I wish you and your, your entire, you know, your, your foundations, a ton of ton of success blessings and just hopefully a lot of people rally again. How do people reach out and if they want to kind of engage and they want to contribute, where would they go?

So the easiest way you can follow me on social C grand on Instagram, c grand3. I think I'm on Twitter or X whatever it's called now, but for grand giving, aka grandkids, all that, that's grandgiving.org and then what we do in here in Chicago, that's C B E A U I c dot org.

Awesome. Awesome. Well, we're going to make up a nice article for you and put it on Authority magazine. We'll get, we get millions of views on that on the me on Medium and we'll also create some assets for you to be able to share, too, and your socials. And again, thank you so much for your time. I'm sorry that I kept you over, but you're too damn interesting for me to just cut you off in an hour.

So, hey, we're having combo. We just let it flow and go, so this is all good. Thank you very much for having me and appreciate you wanting to do that and put it out there for. For the audience to see, so I really appreciate that.