Chaquez McCall - Attorney - Florence City Councilman

This is Coffee with Cool People. I'm Chip Munn, and today I am having coffee with Shaquez McCoy. What's up, man?

Pleasure, pleasure to be here. How's it going with you?

It is good. So I have to ask you, do they, as a city councilman, do I address you as Your Honor?

Please don't, please don't.

How does that work?

Shaquez is best. Oftentimes some people do say the Honorable, and I It's kind of getting my skin crawling a little bit. I don't kind of like the titles. I try to— I mean, sometimes people call me Attorney McCall or things of that nature, but as far as on the political side, I think it was all about service. So I really don't like the titles in it, but it comes with it sometimes.

I understand. Yeah, yeah. So, um, first question: who is Shaquez McCall?

Great question, great question. Oftentimes people always make that, that, you know, assertion for me, but nonetheless, Shaquez is a, uh, father, a husband, a lawyer, Florence City Councilman as well, but more so in life, it's just what's my life's journey has been, you know, raised by a 14-year-old single mother, which, you know, born on the north side of Florence, had me being raised literally by someone who was 14 years old, but also too, I had supports of my grandmother and my great-grandmother. So oftentimes I have conversations with people, they say I have an old soul or old spirit. More than anything, Nonetheless, I went off to Wilson, graduated there in 2011. Then I went to Francis Marion University. I was scared to leave home. I could have went to USC, but I had a job at Hardee's making $7.25 an hour, and I was scared to lose my job. So I decided to go on to Francis Marion. My mom was scared for me to leave as well because, again, I was a first-generation college student as well. So she was— the whole concept of college was kind of a a different feel for us. Sure. So I wanted to be home and she wanted me to be closer to home, and that kind of inspired me to go to Francis Marion, where there, while at Francis Marion, I was a political science major. So I kind of knew a little bit about politics in a sense, and I knew I wanted to study law kind of early on, but I didn't have the passion and motivation for it my first couple years. At Francis Marion. So I started just getting involved in things. So I started joining like the local Democratic Party. From that, I worked for— her name is— she ran for Congress when Tim Scott was appointed to Congress. And it was a special— oh, sorry, Tim Scott was appointed to Senator. It was a District 1 House representative member. In Charleston. And then once Jim DeMint resigned, well, left to become the Heritage Foundation chairman, Tim Scott was appointed by Nikki Haley to fill his term, and it was a special election. And that was my first time getting involved in politics. I worked for a lady named Elizabeth Colbert Bush, who was Colbert— Stephen Colbert's sister. She ran for Congress down there. And so we got— we lost, of course. We lost to Mark Stanford. But that was my first like inching into politics. Um, secondly from that, I worked for, um, uh, Vince Shaheen's campaign for governor. Lost again, of course. It was in 2014. I didn't pick the easy ones, man. I go straight for it. Well, and of course you're getting paid too, so that kind of, that kind of gets you, helps out. Nonetheless, I worked on those two campaigns. Um, and then after getting— after I was— they called the election for Nikki Haley literally maybe 30 seconds after the polls were closed. So being young and not even knowing about data and politics and things like that, you know, we were just out there just hustling and bustling, knocking on doors, making phone calls. I was very defeated in politics at that point. So I gave it all up. And this is back in 2014. And I decided to really head and dive first in getting into law school. I was kind of late, a late bloomer, you know, as far as law school applicants, but I was able to get into law school at North Carolina Central. So from— well, let me back up, backtrack real, real small before— real partly before I get there. Before I had to go to chance to go to law school, this was, uh, roughly— I graduated Francis Marion in 2015. Before I left, I had an opportunity to be a deputy state director for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Hillary Clinton or Crooked Hillary, however you want to look at it.

I've lived too long.

Jokingly enough. And you know, with that, man, you know, if I would have took that job and she would have won, it would have been a clear, easy job for me to get in the White House. And I would have probably been in D.C. at this point. But I just was done with politics. And so I decided to go to law school. Went off to law school at North Carolina Central. That's in Durham, North Carolina. And the story I always tell is, you know, you often hear the freshmen at undergraduate schools, they always get homesick and things of that nature. So I wasn't homesick because I was at Florence, at Francis Marion, you know, my first 4 years. But then I went off to law school almost 250 miles away in Durham, North Carolina, and I was homesick, man. And nonetheless, got through it, decided to come back home. I clerked for a circuit court judge for a year. So I graduated in 2018, passed the bar same first time, same year, 2018. Came back and clerked for Circuit Court Judge D. Craig Brown. Sure. He's a circuit court judge here. And what I was going to do was, again, I was apolitical at this time. Wasn't going to get involved in politics at all, especially when you're working for a judge. You can't be political at all. Sure. And I thought I kind of had my roadmap kind of laid out. Of what I was going to do. And then you clerk for maybe a year to 2 years, but I only signed my contract for a year, and then I stayed for a little longer because his clerk had— his transitioning clerk had a hard time getting on, so I stayed a little bit longer. And my next goal was for me to go— another life-changing event for me— my next goal was for me to go clerk for Chief Justice Beatty at the Supreme Court in the state of South Carolina. But again, you have to— it's kind of a timing thing, all right? You have to time the outgoing clerk going out and our timing was just off. So I had a decision to make. Do I go work for a small firm here in Florence, or do I wait to be a— wait another year or two years to be a clerk with Chief Justice Beatty, or do I open up my own law firm? And I don't know what I was thinking, but back at the end of 2019, I decided to open up my own practice, and it's been very rewarding and very successful. So I'm here now, so then this is— I'm almost at 2020 now, so it's 2019 before the pandemic. You have the mayor of— Stephen Wakela deciding not to run for reelection, and that's when the scramble happened. Again, I was still apolitical at the time, but Mayor Wakela decided not to run. I think the next clear heir apparent was Octavia Williams-Blake. She decided not to run, and I don't know what it was. I just had— I was saying, no, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. Tim, how's it going? All right, how's it going? I always said I'm not going to do it, not going to do it. But people were coming to me and asking me about it, and I could not sleep. I think it was just God finding a way to tell me, you know, this is your time to hop in there. And I decided to run for office, and this was back in— I'm making a mess here. The end of 2019. So I opened up a law firm in a month and decided to run for office the next month. So all of this has happened right before COVID and nonetheless, we hustled and bustled through and were able to win the race in 2020. I became the youngest city councilman out here in the city of Florence at the age of— I think I was 26 at the time, 27. At the time. Um, and yeah, I've served about 2 and a half, or a little 2 and a half, 2, over 2 and a half years now. And, um, looking for what's next.

That's awesome. Rewind a little bit. Okay, my youngest, my youngest son is 15. Okay, I can't imagine raising a kid. Yeah, what was it like growing up with your mom being young. Yeah, it's an interesting day because my wife was younger when my stepson Christian was born. What's that like?

Well, I mean, you don't kind of— you don't know your mom's young until you get older. You're like, well, yeah, she was young. Sure. You know, she's always a mother figure there. You always think she's, you know, you're 2 and 3 or 5, you're thinking she's, you know, a mother figure. Yeah, if you're over 30 years old. But she was, you know, in her 20s. I remember her first time voting was in 2008, and she voted for— another quick note, she voted for Wakila. He only won by one vote. I remember. So I was kind of hooked on politics since then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but nonetheless, it was interesting. I mean, it was a humble experience. I never felt as if I didn't have it, you know, we was less than, but I always knew it was a little bit different. Looking back at it, I don't think my mom never made over $30,000 a year, but nonetheless, you know, What she did instill in me was she always worked, always worked, and she always taught me to have that work ethic. And take it from my grandmother, she's like the workaholic, workaholic. You know, she's— if she had to be at work at 7 o'clock every morning, she's there at 6:15 happily working. She has to be off at 7, she's not leaving about 6:45, 7:45 if she have to. So just having that, those principles of working hard and just trying to, you know, make a living and just try to, you know, live a decent life is what they instilled in me. And I think that's kind of what motivated me to keep going further and further. And oftentimes too, what my mom always taught me was essentially how she looked at it, I'm playing with house money at this point, all right? Like, you know, I don't think no one, I wasn't expecting to be as successful as I am. And I don't think I'm successful, you know, just, you know, I mean, a middle-income person, you know, with education. But to that, and looking at a lot of my peers, I'm playing with house money, so to speak. So always make it count. And she always instilled that in me. You know, she always— the Nike "Just Do It" was always what she told me just about every day. "Just do it, son." So from that, that's kind of how I've been living my life, just doing it and figuring it out. And of course with that, you know, as you grow and, you know, my mom, you know, only had a high school education. Um, her parents, you know, didn't even have that. Um, so it was just more so just breaking the chains, um, and just continuing to, you know, uncover new grounds for my younger siblings to kind of have a path forward and what to look for.

Sure. Well, you know, again, my wife is a first-generation college student and graduated. Yeah, one of the things I read a book somewhere, you're talking about the one, you know, in every family, in every business, there's always the one. Yeah. And, um, you know, I just, I think that's awesome. You mentioned working at Hardee's, and, and if I remember hearing correctly, not necessarily wanting to move away because you didn't want to leave or lose your job. Yeah, at Hardee's, that, that's a— number one, I'm glad to know. I saw Hardee's out, I guess, past the university now. Oh yeah, it's made a bit of a comeback. They had kind of drifted away, it seemed like, to some extent. Yeah. But on top of that, I mean, there are a lot of people these days that that's not a— I don't know, it's not the kind of job they want to hang around for. What did you learn and, and why did you— I mean, Why was that important?

Well, my mom's first job was at Hardee's. And so she was, when I was of age, the first time, no, as soon as I was able to get a job, it was always, I had to get a job, right? To provide, you know, to help provide. Nonetheless, I always say if I ever get a chance to write a book about my life, I will write a, one chapter would be geared towards Hardee's. It was one of the hardest jobs I ever had. You're the only cook back there. We're off the, I was working on the one off of 52 here in Florence. And you oftentimes have buses come in and you're just, you're overwhelmed. And, you know, everything is made fresh. So it's just, uh, so it's a tough job, tough gig, tough gig. But it was just to have a job in itself was— it's a big thing to my family, right? Um, and one, one principle my grandmother always taught me was this. I don't typically differ on this one, but this is what I— growing up, that's what she taught. She always said, don't leave your job until you find another one. Don't ever quit your job. Don't you ever quit your job unless you're fired, but never quit until you got a replacement. All right, um, now I, as a businessman, now I look, you know, you know, I'm more of a business perspective on things, but that was always what it was. So I couldn't find a job nowhere else, so I know I had a job at Hardee's, and I just, and I couldn't, I couldn't risk not going off, going somewhere and not being able to afford to provide for myself without a job. Um, but I made $7.25 happily, so it was roughly Every 2 weeks I brought about $175, and that was enough for me to, you know, pay my insurance on my car and, you know, provide, you know, a daily meal for myself at Francis Marion. But it was a humbling experience, but it did taught me to work, you know, and I always had a job. I always worked. But yeah, but my mom, first jobs at Hardee's, my first jobs at Hardee's. I think my son's first job will probably be Hardee's. It gives you that experience. It kind of shows you You know, I hate it, but some people have bad views of people who work in that industry. And just to be in that, to be in that mix and to kind of see what they go through on a day-to-day experience is very humbling. For sure. And so I would love for my kids to go through that experience as well to kind of see, you know, most people just trying to make a living. You know, sometimes it's college students trying to— that's more McDonald's. Arby's, you got a lot of career people in there at Arby's. Yeah. But they're just trying to make a living. And they're— trying to get a fair shake at life and just trying to provide for their families. So I ended up leaving Hardee's. I stayed there from my junior year in high school till my, I think my junior year in college where I finally, I was working on campaigns. I worked at ADP with Tim, with Jim Brown and Tim Norwood in the call center. And that was a pretty good job for me as well. So, yeah.

Well, if nothing else, you weren't getting grease burns. I mean, I can't fault you. It's funny you say that. I hadn't, ever thought about the dynamic of that big bus rolling in.

Yeah. Oh, and they all— and then typically, I don't know, for some odd reason, they always come when it's time for you to get off. And when you— and then working in that industry, you can't just leave. No, they have to tell you when you can go home. So it's like, uh, so it was, uh, it was tiresome. And, um, you know, actually, I was in front— I was at— in high school, and, um, I was coming home 12 o'clock at night sometimes, 12:30, have to be at school first thing in the morning. I'm tired. But my grandmother did not want to hear it. She didn't want to hear it.

Well, I have to think though that that contributed to the grit to be able to get through law school.

Oh, totally. Yeah, totally. I kind of felt like law school is a different beast. I mean, I can't even explain it in a sense.

I couldn't get in. So tell me about it. I tried to get into law school and it didn't work out.

See, law school is a different beast. Staying in is another different beast as well. But, you know, a lot of the students at my law school was either second-generation law students or third-generation. I mean, their parents or their grandparents. So it's big, big legacy school there. And they were uncomfortable with it. And that— my first year was a little tough. It wasn't because of the grit and the work that it took. I was used to it. But it was just for me, just the— I was away from my family. For sure. And that was the biggest thing, um, because I wasn't used to it. Um, so, but yeah, definitely I had that. I would say I got my grit from Hardee's. Um, another quick, uh, story I forgot to mention is when I got accepted to law school, uh, was I got waitlisted at USC. Um, I got accepted to Charleston School of Law, and I got accepted to, um, North Carolina Central. Eventually I got accepted into USC, but they wouldn't offer me any money. And then I was gonna go to Charleston, and then Charleston was going through this thing when it was about to close down, essentially. I remember. So I said, well, I'm not going to Charleston. And then North Carolina Central gave me a good scholarship, and I decided to go there. And— but I didn't think about— you know, this is my first time leaving, moving. Sure. I didn't have moving expenses, so I had to get a place to stay. You had to buy— purchase books. I get a laptop, you got to get a lot of things, things I didn't have. Um, so I had to pretty much save up money to make it to law school. So what I'm doing was the second hardest job I had in my life was I used to deliver papers for the Florence Morning News. That's 7 days a week, rain, sleet, snow, hurricane, they expect their paper. Uh, it was literally a hurricane that came through. It was It was a weekend, like maybe a Sunday. Road, you know, no one has power, trees in the middle of the road. So of course no one's delivering paper, right? Well, I had a guy call me, say, "Mr. McCall, where's my paper? I know you're running a little late 'cause the hurricane come, but I expect my paper." I'm like, "Sir, come on, it's a hurricane, man." But nonetheless, I had to go get in my car and go around the trees and give him his paper. But the Florence Morning News Being a paper carrier is a very— is a tough job, tough, tough gig, um, and it's 7 days a week. And nonetheless, I end up saving up the money to, uh, at least get for my first month's deposit in law school, uh, well, my security deposit in my apartment, and as far as— as well as my deposit for law school and enough for books and things. I still was short a few, but my family kind of came in and kind of pitched in a little bit. But that was my second hardest job, being a paper carrier.

And you said you've been You've been involved though, locally, your whole life. Yeah. You're a local boy made good. What, what time was that? What brought you back? Because you had a lot of choices. I mean, you've gone out, you've kind of done first generation, get through law school.

Yeah.

Why come back?

So while in law school, um, I was working for this political fundraising organization where we were going out, uh, for campaigns and we were raising money. More so, we had a database which is basically cold calling people, basically. Yeah, so I had to get myself— get my sales pitch up. But nonetheless, um, it was at that moment I had the options I had outside after law school was it was a small firm in Durham, North Carolina, or I can come back and work for, uh, uh, Judge Brown here in Florence. Um, and my wife didn't I know once I graduated, she either had to move to North Carolina or had to move back to South Carolina, and she didn't want to have to go through the certification process again in North Carolina. So she's from here, high school sweethearts. Um, yeah, um, yeah, she didn't want to move, so I decided just to move back to Florence. Now the deal was, but after— this was the deal— the deal was after I clerked for a year and a half with, um, uh, Judge Brown, I was I'm going to clerk for a Supreme Court justice in South Carolina, and then we're going to do a big law either in Charlotte or someplace else. But I, I stayed because, um, of course, open up my office, that was a reason. And this is before running for office, is I remember pondering that question of why do young professionals oftentimes want to leave, right? Um, and I think that was kind of a good opportunity for me to run, is it kind dive into that question, right? You know, how do we keep our young professionals, you know, who from this area, who practice Maryan, and how do we keep them here in Florence? And so tackling that question was a big reason why I ran for city council and, you know, try to bring that energy for young people to stay here so we can have a good, you know, a good professional energy here and young professional energy here in the city of Florence. And so we can, you know, see some successes like Greenville is having, Charleston is having, Charlotte is having with a lot of its young professionals. So, um, yeah, that was the reason why I came. That's the reason why I definitely stayed.

It's awesome. What was it like when you decided to open your own practice? Because that's— I, I do— they, they don't teach a class on that.

They do not. They teach you theory in law school, not how to run a law firm, not how to run a law firm, not how to run a business. Um, so What's the difference? So the difference is this: in law school, you look at cases, right? And you look at case law. So, you know, they might say, hey, what happened in this case? Uh, Chip, explain this case to me. What was the rule in the law? What was it? This side's argument was that side's argument. What did the court decide, basically? Um, and so you just learn how the theory of law just progressed over time. The practice of law is completely different, all right? Uh, how do you respond to a complaint? How do you write a complaint? How do you advocate in the courtroom? How do you, uh, uh, you know, run a trial? How do you meet clients? How do you bring in clients? How do you keep clients? Um, uh, you know, I saw a lot of the court clerking for Judge Brown. I saw a lot of the courtroom things, so I was very comfortable with that. Um, so now I feel like I got a very experienced litigator because I saw it, and now I'm practicing for a couple years. Going on year 4 now practicing, and I've saw it for a couple years too, so I'm— I feel very experienced and comfortable in that role. But the business side, when I first started, I remember I had to mail off a letter to an insurance adjuster, and then I thought about it as a millennial, I don't remember how to mail. I didn't know, like, where did the stamp go? Where do the, uh, the return address go? So I had to Google that. So The first couple of months was just me getting the basic simple office practices down. How do you mail things out? How do you fax things? Insurance adjusters love to use faxes and solicitors love to use fax machines to get that definite answer that you received it basically. Right. So how do you do that? And lo and behold, I mean, it came over time. I started to get it. I had— I did have some great mentors, um, who was there. And I'm literally like the first couple weeks I'm calling them every day, like, how I did this, how I do that. And after about 3 or 4 months, you kind of get the hang of it, um, for the practice side on it. Now the business side, um, you know, how to set aside money for taxes, um, what's a business deduction, you know, um, what's a— you know, how's it going? All right, Tim, what's up? What's a marketing expense? Um, things of that nature. Um, accounting, balancing the books, reconciling your accounts, things of that nature was, uh, was, was very, very, very— getting it firsthand was very difficult. But I hired a business coach, and he kind of is a company, uh, out of North Carolina. They kind of helped guide me through the things. I kind of getting the hang of it now, but there's still things I'm still learning. Um, I think I'm getting good in the marketing side on it, which is— yeah, it works, it works, it works. Uh, But nonetheless, it's, it's completely different. So another point too is what I did, and I didn't know when you hop out there, you think lawyers go to school to be lawyers, you know. You don't go to school to— you don't think when you open up your office you're now opening up a law— you are a business now. You are in business. You have to run a business. So you're an entrepreneur. Um, and so, um, the route I took there's two sets of lawyers— well, multiple sets, but the two big ones are either you're a lawyer lawyer or you're an entrepreneur lawyer. I'm the entrepreneur lawyer. So some lawyers who work in law firms, if I work for a big firm, my job was to be just to work the cases and the partners would bring the cases in. Now, being an entrepreneur lawyer, I got to do both. I have to bring the cases in for my firm to make a profit, and I also have to work some of those cases as well. Us, all of the cases basically. But being an entrepreneurial lawyer, some people, some of the older lawyers who don't see the vision of marketing, they don't, they don't believe in marketing. They believe they should be off referrals. Sure, your work should do it. Um, but I think we live in a day and age now where, um, we have a bunch of guerrilla marketers out there. Like, prime example will be in South Carolina, it's like a King, George Sink, now Morgan and Morgan. Um, There's a trend out there.

Biggest lawyers in the metaverse.

Good old marketing work. You know, they're taking a lot of the cases, a good bit of the cases. And if you don't market, if you don't market yourself, you're not going to get out there. Especially being someone starting a law office at 27 years old, you know, with no experience. You have to get yourself out there to market your service. For people to make a decision to choose you. And, um, so, and again, it's— some lawyers have different perspectives on it, but I think the new classes of lawyers, and I'm saying maybe 50 and under, maybe understand that the need for marketing. I think 50 and over are kind of— they're kind of, you know, displeased of it. But I think that's a new game we're in now because of the guerrilla marketers in the area.

Yeah, for sure. What, what, um, what led you to— because it's interesting because I have some good friends who are attorneys here and other places. And you mentioned hiring a business coach. What led you to do that and what's been the effect? I, for one, think coaching is— I do tons, okay, business-wise. I have multiple coaches. I also spent last season— Go Titans!— coaching backup Second string offensive line coach for Trinity Collegiate School. So, big believer in that.

Oh, so you're there with Coach Minton? That's Stacy's, she works with Judge Brown's assistant. That's her husband. So I kinda know him. Yep.

And so I'm curious though, as a young professional, what led you to get a coach?

Yeah, so, well, I'm real big on, I learned from Judge Brown. He said, let the experts be the experts. And you just, you know, you gotta know your sweet spots. So I kind of know what my sweet spot is, right? I kind of know I'm charismatic a little bit. I can— it's a little bit— I'm kind of charismatic. I can relate to people a lot. I can, you know, I can bring people in. I can have a conversation with people pretty good. I kind of know I can set a vision on what I want, but, you know, as far as the grunt of how to get it done, I struggle with that. I struggle with it. Um, and so just, I'm real big on podcasts and I read a lot of books, and, uh, they were, you know, a lot of them offering their services. And I did my reviews on a bunch of them, and I chose one out of North Carolina. He actually practiced, he actually practiced law here in South Carolina as well. And, um, I just, I did it because, you know, I knew there was some holes that I needed to fill. Sure. And they offered to fill those holes, of course. And it's been very rewarding. I think I'm going to year 2 with it now. The system and procedures I have in place in my office now is, you know, going from a guy with no business experience whatsoever, the system and procedures I got now is well intact. You know, I know how to read, you know, my P&L statements now, my balance sheets now. You know, I know the— I have the pulse of my firm. I know, hey, if we're not—

we're—

I have a goal. So I know, hey, we're not hitting this goal this month, or, you know, this month is not a big alarm. If it's happening 2, 3 months, then of course it trends. Now I know something I need to go back and check. Hey, look and see why clients are not coming in. Is my TV commercial not working? Is the billboards, you know, need to be in certain areas more than other places? Do we need to do some more direct mails, mailing campaigns, things of that nature? Um, I look at that. Hey, I look if I'm, if I'm spending too much on the expenses. Um, you know, I look and see, you know, what changes need to be made. And so that business coach kind of gave me a realization because as a lawyer, all I wanted to do was just practice law, right? But having that business coach come in, and he was also a lawyer too, so he kind of knew kind of where we were, where I was at. Um, and from that, we've been growing a lot, man. We're— we've been able to So I practice mainly personal injury and criminal defense. We've been able to recover millions of dollars for our clients here in the PD area, and we have served a lot as well on the criminal side. So we've been growing, and I attribute that a lot to that business coach kind of giving me the— helping me have that pulse of my firm and how I can kind of maneuver it.

So what's next?

Um, what's next for me?

I'm gonna be taking over the world one city at a time. You got the firm, you've got the city council. I mean, what does vision look like for you?

You've come a long way. Yeah, well, I got a long— I have a long way to go. I think I'm in this chapter of my life now where I think I'm outside of figuring it out. I kind of know what path I want to be on, um, and I think I'm more business approach— I'm more business friendly now. Than I once was as a liberal Democrat, right? But nonetheless, I'm much more business-friendly. I want to focus more on my practice a lot. I want to see it grow. I have 10, 15-year goals that I definitely want to achieve, and I want to get there. I think we're growing expeditiously here in the area. I think we're going to do real good. I think we're going to do really, really good on the law side. On the politics side, I just want to serve. I kind of get the both of both worlds, the both of best of both worlds, the best of both worlds. There you go. And I get to serve on both sides, on the city council side as well as the legal side. On the politics side, you know, I just want to continue to serve Florence. You know, there's oftentimes the only downside of running for office early, not the only, but one of the biggest downsides is you seem very, very ambitious. Sure. And rightfully so. I think it comes with it. You're running that office at 29 or 26 years old, like you're definitely on a mission. Um, but I think I've kind of hit a road where I'm just more comfortable just doing God's will. Um, and I think I've been called at this time just to serve on council for a while and kind of see what goes from there. I would not be surprised surprised if— what is it, 20, 23, 4 years from now I'm not in politics. I don't think I'm in it long term. I wouldn't be surprised 4 years from now I'm not in politics anymore. I'm more so just— I've found a couple boards here in Florence I'm serving on. I'm comfortable with that, and I'm just interested in growing the business. But I never know. I could be how I was in 2019. I'm at my computer desk and doing some work and then kind of just get that call in to do something else.

Might get fired up.

Might get fired up and ready to go. You never know, right?

Awesome. So just kind of in wrapping up, a question I like to ask, I think tells a lot about just kind of how we tick on the inside. I'm curious if you had to pick a fictional character, be a movie, comic book, superhero, whatever. If you had to pick a fictional character you feel like best kind of exemplifies Shaquez, who would it be?

I would say, yeah, well, I would say there'd probably be a— I kind of struggle with this actually. Uh, real quick, real briefly, I'm a part of this leadership program and we did an assessment and one of the things I struggle with is self-awareness. I do not give myself as much credit as I do. Like, it was so bad, they called me and was like, are you— did you show you answer the questions right? I was like, I think I did. I'll do it again. Did it again, scored the same thing. All right. Um, I just— I beat myself up a lot of, you know, I don't— you know, I just— I'm very selfless in a sense. I don't try to take credit for things, you know. I'm real big on teamwork. Um, but nonetheless, um, so I struggle with that question, you know. What fictional character and why? Because, you know, I don't want to be overzealous, but thinking about it though, I think more so in the life of— it is— I can say Atticus Finch, um, is a— will be a good person. I ascribe myself in my firm as well as when I was working for counsel is in my firm, uh, our— one of our core principles is we're just trying to provide access to justice for those who feel underrepresented, basically. I'm just trying to provide that justice to them, giving them the, you know, the, the legal system in itself is, is, is very, very complex, convoluted. You got AI coming in, but they're going to have a hard time because it's so, so complex, and you're dealing with emotions, basically. And so just trying to provide that access to people who feel like they don't have that type of, um, they don't, they don't see themselves getting justice in the basically. So just trying to provide that. Um, and then running for office, I ran on the principle of, you know, making sure that regardless of what side of town you live on, that you can always live up to your truest potential. Um, so just serving the underprivileged has always been a, um, a, a big calling for me, I think. Um, and even though it's unpopular, it's not a popular thing to say, you know, I want to go help out this client who has this particular issue or, you know, help out this person on this side of town who, you know, people kind of put down. But that's kind of what motivates me, actually. I think that drives me to continue to go. So I would say Atticus Finch as a person. Did anyone ever use him before? Atticus Finch? No? Okay. First.

There you go.

Look at there, another thing you first said, man. So it's fun. Atticus Finch. You know, To Kill a Mockingbird, I think, is a great story. I think it's being banned in a lot of places now, you know, the critical race theory thing. I don't think it kind of goes to that, but nonetheless, it's banned. Um, but I think that, that character, that, that lawyer, um, he's a, a white male lawyer, um, going and representing an African-American, um, male, um, in a, you know, in a crazy time. During a crazy time, um, when it was very unpopular for him to do that, for him to have the courage and the, uh, the willingness to do that. Um, I think that kind of sums me up, so to speak.

So yeah, well, appreciate it.

Thank you, buddy. Yes, sir. Thanks for the coffee and thanks for the conversation.