Jay Hinesley - CEO, Pee Dee Division - MUSC Health

This is Coffee with Cool People, and today I am having coffee with Jay Hinesley. Jay, it's, uh, it's good to see you, man.

Morning.

It's always nice to— it's good to be able to see you kind of one-on-one. Normally we see each other in big groups of people, so this is an ideal time just to kind of sit down and, uh, and talk. Now I know that in your work life you're the CEO of the PD division of MUSC Health, but My first question is, who is Jay Hensley?

Man, that's an interesting question because there's a lot of things I could answer to that, I think. But— It's part of the fun. Yeah, that's part of the fun. Well, I guess first I'd say I'm a husband to Catherine, Catherine Hensley, Catherine Megs Hensley. I'm a father to 3. I have a son who is 11, soon to be 12, named Ward. I have 2 girls. Evelyn and Eleanor. They're 9 and 7. I'm a Christian, member of St. John's Anglican Church here in town. I am originally from Florida, so I grew up in St. Petersburg, Florida, and my father was a school superintendent there. And none of my family is from Florida though. He moved there to be a school superintendent, and so I'm the only member of my entire family from my mother and father's side that was born out of the state of Georgia or Alabama. And including my children. So eventually I moved, left the state of Florida to go to Presbyterian College, which is, I like to say, how I became a South Carolinian. Gotcha. Go Blue Hoes. Yeah, yeah. So moving to South Carolina was life-changing for me in a lot of ways because I got my degree there, met my wife here in South Carolina. Went to MUSC for a master's in healthcare administration. I've been a hospital administrator for just over 20 years now, and half of that as a hospital CEO. And it's led me from Charleston to Alabama, Alabama to Nashville, Nashville to Florence, South Carolina.

Alabama. All the way back. It's full circle.

You got it. You got it.

So I gotta ask, how'd you pick PC from Florida?

Well, interestingly, one of my best friends, childhood best friends, his sister was at Presbyterian when I was going on my college trips. Gotcha. And I had picked out Furman, Clemson, and Wake Forest on my college trip. And they said, you know, you ought to pull in off the interstate, PC's on the way. And so we, pulled in, and, and I really like the campus. I like the atmosphere. After reading about the school, I really kind of fell in love with their philosophy, and I was fortunate to receive a scholarship. And so I ended up with an academic scholarship and a partial music scholarship, and so that made it a lot easier because I wouldn't have qualified probably at Wake or—

sure—

one of those others for scholarship.

Well, so music What kind of music in scholarship?

I was president of the Presbyterian College Choir. Oh my God. Yeah.

So a singer and a dancer, because I know that locally you're known to cut a rug.

Yeah, I do enjoy to dance. I won't lie. I mean, I never met a wedding I didn't get on the dance floor. But it had been a long time, and then doing that Dancing with Our Future Stars was fun because it had been a while since I'd really done anything similar.

Well, I haven't been to all of them, but, but I was at that one and you crushed it. And I wasn't at the last one because I think that one of your, uh, team members—

yeah, Alan. Alan won a strong performance. Yeah, he won also.

I, I hadn't seen a better one than that, man. It was, um, it was impressive. And you had actually, as I recall, a pretty good field. The field was— I mean, it wasn't It wasn't a layup. I mean, you earned it.

Well, I don't know. I don't know. I wasn't judging everybody else either.

Sure. Well, if you're like me, I was hiding in the back just kind of hoping my turn would hurry up and come.

Well, the worst part, I think, was realizing I had to do it twice. Because once it was over, I was relieved. Right. And then they said, oh no, no, you got to go back out.

Yeah, 3 10s wasn't good enough. No. You got to go back out.

Go back out.

Well, that is, that's a neat event. And And again, you were super in it.

Well, thank you.

So you sing and you dance. I imagine you have to do a fair amount of that with 3 kids under the age of 11 at home. That's probably pretty busy.

It's chaos. It's chaos at my house. And my wife does an incredible job with our 3. She is 100% invested in their life and what they're doing. And it allows me to engage when I'm able to. Which I really much appreciate. My wife has sacrificed her entire career to raise our children, and we're fortunate that she's willing to do that. I'm fortunate she's willing to do that. But it is a lot. They're into a lot of things, and they're all over the place.

Yeah, 11-year-old boy, ball season?

Well, so he was playing soccer for a while. He was doing travel soccer, but he has realized recently that music is more his interest, I think. So he's picked up several instruments and is kind of moving in that direction. So he loves to be outside, does play sports locally, but has stopped playing travel ball to focus on music.

Travel ball's hard, man. My boys in various levels for various periods of time did that. And it's a super commitment. Then again, learning multiple instruments, I think that it's one of the I don't, I don't have a whole lot of regrets, and maybe this isn't a regret, but it's something I wish I had done. Maybe is that the definition? Anyway, um, I wish I had picked up an instrument because I don't claim to be a good singer, but I enjoy it. And I wish that I had at a younger age when there was maybe some more neuroplasticity picked up either guitar because Because I've tried a couple of times and I just don't have the patience for it. Yeah. Guitar or piano. So good for him, I think.

Yeah, yeah, he's been great. My wife's been really good about just exposing them to a lot of things and then seeing which ones they sort of lean to and what, you know, what are they wired for, what are they not wired for. And sure, music has definitely been one that he's leaned towards.

Well, I mean, I'm a big believer in growing where you're planted and hanging in your— I've heard it called zone of genius, unique ability, you know, do the things you love doing and that you're— you find an aptitude for and do as much of those as you can do. And, and I definitely believe in being well-rounded. Yeah, I'm pretty sure my oldest son, that, that's the— that's the way that he got into Clemson because it wasn't all You know, he wasn't a 5.0, you know, 1600 SAT, but it was a do a lot of things, figure out a lot. I think life's just a lot like that, man. You just kind of throw a lot against the wall and see where you find yourself.

I read, I think it was called Focus on Your Strengths when I was in graduate school. I think it was Focus on Your Strengths, you know, over 20 years ago. And That really resonated with me because I think I realized at that point that there are things that we're all sort of more wired or geared towards. It doesn't mean we can't do other things, but if you focus on all the things you can't do, you know, you're certainly not going to push that button inside that allows you to be on fire with those things. So I have leaned into that my whole career and tried to avoid the things that are my weaknesses.

Yeah, well, I mean, obviously you figured out Healthcare, how did you, so you went to PC, how'd you end up at MUSC? Did you go straight there right out of school? I mean, you know, from one directly into the other, or was it a work program that you ended up?

No, I did, I ended up, I went there straight out of school. And I knew I had an interest in healthcare. It was a big part, still is a big part of the GDP. And so when I was trying to decide which direction to go, I actually met with a family friend that my father recommended just to help me sort out my thoughts on where I'd plug in. So about my junior year, when everyone's really starting to try to wonder what are they going to do after school, I was contemplating getting an MBA. And he said, you know, an MBA would be— is good. Certainly, I'm not going to hurt. But he basically recommended work first, then get an MBA, or go to a Tier 1 program. And I'd love to say that I could have gotten into Harvard or one of those schools that he was recommending. Perhaps. I don't know. I didn't take a stab at it. But in the course of that conversation, he started asking me, what are you interested in? What are the things that you like? And I'm—

Hey. Beauty alive before me.

Oh, uh-oh. Is he okay?

Everybody good, Caleb? Yeah, I think we're set.

Okay.

One time maybe. All right.

Hey, we're live. Yeah. And so he asked a lot of questions and realized that I had an interest in healthcare. And I knew the impact it had on the US economy. At the time, we were in a little mini recession after the dot-com boom. And sort of put a bow on that, in healthcare, if you get an MHA, there are programs after school that plug you into hospitals and other training programs. Similar to how physicians will go into several years of training after medical school, they do the same thing for administrators. It's one year. You can apply for fellowship or residency. And it's a paid educational year. And so to me, that was, you know, we're in a down economy. You know, I need training. It's easier to get a job, if you will. And I had a real interest in healthcare, the impact it has on the community, et cetera. So I leaned in and went towards MUSC or UAB, and all my friends moved to Charleston. So MUSC it was.

Well, and you know, my kids don't listen to me most of the time. But my advice to them when picking college, and the first two have been at Clemson, which is a great, you know, as a Tiger, that suits me. But it's been, look, man, if you're going to go to school somewhere, let it be somewhere you want to spend time. So having friends in Charleston or just, if you got to go somewhere, man, it's a nice place to go and spend time. So I don't blame you a bit. So I'm curious, all right, so you go and you get your master's degree. You've done your year. Was your year with MUFC?

Well, so how it works, and you know, there's no guarantees that you'll get a year afterwards. It's just like applying for a job. You have to sort of land a spot. And so after I finished, I applied to several. I was fortunate that Roper St. Francis offered me a position. So I did a 1-year administrative fellowship at Roper St. Francis Healthcare and then was fortunate enough to earn a spot, I guess you could say, to stay. And I spent 6 or 7 years at Roper St. Francis after graduating from the MSC.

That's awesome. So you've mentioned a couple of times healthcare and its impact on the GDP. Was that way then?

Yeah, it's even bigger now. I think it's over 20% now.

How has it changed? What has been the biggest change over the course of your career?

Oh man. Probably, probably two things have occurred over the last 20 years that had pretty enormous shifts. The Affordable Care Act had an enormous impact on healthcare. Some good, some bad. And then the adoption of electronic medical record systems are two monumental changes. When, when I started, the vast majority of institutions were still using paper charts, and we were still working with physicians on handwriting. You know, I can distinctly remember there was an initiative to improve handwriting because nurses couldn't read the orders that physicians were writing. And thinking back, the healthcare that I work in today, that's unfathomable to think that we would tolerate that. 20 years ago because it is one of the most dangerous things that can occur in a hospital is misinterpreting an order. Sure. And for medications or anything. So moving to today's world where it's impossible to write an order, we don't allow it anymore in writing. It has to be done through electronic medical record systems. It has added in a tremendous element of safety that didn't exist 20 years ago. So that's been neat to be a part of and to watch. And hard. It's been very hard. Change is really hard, as you can imagine.

Yeah. Well, in any line of work, but particularly change in an area where you're impacting people's health. And quite frankly, I mean, most of the physicians I know are pretty smart and pretty resolute. Usually when they get used to doing something a certain way, they like it that way.. And so, you know, I can't imagine that, that it is. Now, to be clear, they care an awful lot about their patients. So no question, given the safety component of it, I'm sure that part was easy to get along. But like you say, any, any changes is hard. And you guys have seen tons of change. You know, you mentioned the ACA, and, and I know that that has impacted Yeah, I even had one time, and it's— I don't do politics at all, but the concept of the single-payer system. And I had a good friend, I went through Leadership South Carolina back in '08 maybe, and one of the guys in my cohort was over, um, and the South Carolina benefits. He wasn't over the South— he was a big healthcare person in Columbia. It wasn't CHAMPUS, but whatever that— they deal with government, South Carolina government workers' benefits. And he was a big proponent. I don't know why. Maybe there was some bias there, but of the single-payer system. And again, it's just one of those things that you guys constantly have one thing or another. I find it interesting. Politics impact your business a lot.

Yeah, yeah, particularly in South Carolina. And obviously MUSC is a state institution, so you can't have a state institution without politics, right? To me, one of them, One of the most interesting things about healthcare, just as it relates to business, is when you try to compare hospitals to other businesses, it's almost impossible to compare the two because on any given day, we don't know what we're going to get paid for a service. We don't know what the service is going to cost until it's completed. We have requirements to complete the service in some cases, which is the right thing to do. As a society, we should require services for our consumers. Community. And at any given time, you're managing all those things. And you can't just pick— we have service lines similar to a manufacturing company, but in every service line, there are multiple variables that we're constantly trying to manage. You know, a patient that receives a service, not every patient pays the same amount, not every insurance pays the same amount, not every service costs the same amount. Depending on the patient's individual needs. And so to me, it's always looking at different industries and trying to compare them to healthcare. Always, I always think, you know, if I were to do something else and I only had to focus on one product and I only had to narrow down the cost of that one product, you know, how much simpler my life might be. Sure. And then take out the political component and you're just focused on selling what you have to sell or providing whatever service you have at the the best possible price. But healthcare is always, anywhere you look, there are just layers and layers and layers. And so I don't think anybody in healthcare can say that they have mastered it. It's a constant learning.

Master is, like you say, it's impossible. But how do you manage it? Because that is, again, it's interesting. Because whether it's, like you said, all of your inputs and outputs change, right? Your inputs in terms of labor costs, your inputs in terms of patient need, your inputs in terms of compensation for different— how do you manage all that?

You know, we obviously use a lot of science to manage it, right? I mean, we look at, you know, we have numerous tools for productivity. Supply cost, and we're always managing, you know, the inputs and the outputs, if you will. But really, for me, it's always boiled down to it's really kind of an art, because at any given time you need people to make good decisions, and you can't control those decisions all day long. So you have to influence people to make the right decision, whether it's for the patient, as being making sure that the patient has the best possible care, or for the hospital. And those things are always working together. And to me, that just means you've got to, you have to have a clear message, which is why missions are really important for hospitals. People need to know what they're doing. What's the purpose of their job, their greater purpose. And to me, that messaging is very important to an institution to know that we're going to make the right decision for both the hospital and the patient, but patient first.

Sure. Well, it's interesting because you were kind enough to share with me your Java with J, a Java with J mug. And you mentioned to me that when a team member or whomever comes in and sits down with you, that's something that you use. It's obvious to me, and it would have to be in your line of work, that influencing people is a big part of what you do. What are some of your— I don't know if you'd call them philosophies, But when it comes to developing and influencing team members, what are some of your thoughts on that?

I think if you were to ask my leadership team, you know, what my philosophy or mantra was, they would share a couple of things because I say them a lot. And you have to, I think, to get your message across. I don't think you can provide the right service in a hospital if you don't care about people. If you are a caregiver and you're just tasking all day, that's not really worthwhile work. And so you want your staff to care about the patients that they take care of. You have to care about your staff. And so for me, that means I care about my team. I expect my team to care about their team. I expect that team to care about their team. And so I use the term care a lot. We should care for each other. It doesn't mean we're always gonna agree. It doesn't mean we're always gonna get along. It doesn't mean that they're going to like all of the decisions that I make, but they will know that I care about them. And that means that we will have reasonable dialogue when it comes to those inflection points of decision-making. If someone disagrees with me or my executive team, I encourage people to speak up and let's talk about it. It doesn't mean I'm going to change my mind or that our team will change our mind, but perhaps there's input there that we didn't receive that we need. And sometimes we have changed our mind. Sometimes I've changed my mind based on the feedback that I've gotten. And so I think that's, to me, that's the most important part. If we're going to care for our community, we have to care for our team. And so I say that a lot. I talk about that a lot. And I also believe in using the lightest touch possible. You know, I can get a lot done real fast if I go force people to do what they're supposed to do, but it won't last. And we may perform, we may get the results that we want in the short term, but in the long term, that's very hard to maintain. And so I believe lightest touch possible. And if someone needs a a correction, what's the lightest touch necessary to get that person back on the direction that we want them to go? And that goes hand in hand to me with caring about somebody. Sure. If you care about them, you really don't want to wound that person. You want them to grow from whatever experience it is that you're trying to get them to change for.

No doubt. No doubt. Well, I definitely, in my office, I call it inside-out leadership. I got to take care of myself. I've got to take care of my team, who takes care of our clients, and it really— who then involve and take care of and are part of the community. And it's, it's really, um, I definitely, uh, wholeheartedly— I will adopt though, um, the lightest touch possible because I think that's a— it's a good way to frame it, right? Because as a leader, your job isn't because you can't, especially in a big enough organization, you can't make an influence, um, directly every decision, right? Yeah, I mean, that— I think that is, um, spot on. So I'm curious, what, um, what would you consider— you've been at MUSC in Florence in the PD how long 2 years. 2 years. So what would you say has been the biggest impact or change in the last 2 years? If you said, God, this is something I really am proud of, what would it be?

Well, that's an easy one because we just received our employee satisfaction scores just recently. We did our engagement score. Survey in the winter, and we just got our scores back. We have the highest employee satisfaction in all the health system, and we have the highest retention at 87%, and that's up substantially over the last 2 years. And in fact, I think when I arrived, we had— we were in the 50th percentile for employee engagement, and we're almost at the 80th now, which is the highest in the health system. And so to me, I'm really proud of that because it's taken a lot of effort, a lot of energy, a lot of work between my team. That has also translated into significant gains in our patient satisfaction. I think people, you know, you always hear that saying, your people are your most important asset. If you don't take care of your team, they're not going to take care of the patients that they treat.

Easy to say, hard to do.

It's very, yeah. It's taken me a long time to understand what I said earlier, the art of getting it to that point, because you can use a lot of things to measure it, but at the end of the day, how do you get the needle to move? And it's not a perfect science. Every institution's different, every culture's different. You have to really understand what is this organization's, what are their buttons? How do we get this group to move? So I'm very proud of it. And I'd also say Marion, The Marion Hospital 4 years ago was a Leapfrog Safety Score F. It's not something to be proud of. I told the board I'm not an F student, never was an F student, don't intend to be an F hospital CEO. And I'm really proud to say that we have moved Marion from an F to an A. Wow. And that was a tremendous amount of work for my team. I have a fantastic quality team. The leadership out there has done a great job just investing in the time it takes to move the needle there. And so those are new. Those two things are reflections of all the work that we've put in the last couple of years.

Sure. Well, and it's nice to see that, you know, because going back again to taking care of your team, rule number one in any business is keep what you've got, particularly That can be on the client side, but particularly in, you know, that turnover can be a killer in any business. And so the continuity of care and keeping the team together, I think, is—

I forgot a real huge one. This was the highlight of my career. We opened a new hospital in Cade, South Carolina, between Lake City and Williamsburg. We've been running it now, so it's like, it's not as fresh, but absolutely the highlight of my career was opening a new hospital. It's a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Right. And they have the highest patient satisfaction in all of MU Health. They're in the 100th percentile.

Isn't it nice that you've got so many good things going on that you could forget the— what a blessing, right? So I'm curious, so that's— yeah, I'm a big believer that in order for us to be happy, we have to measure ourselves backwards. Yeah, right. Yeah, you have to say this is how far I've come over some period of time, but most of us are driven by that horizon. We're always working towards something. What is— what's next? I mean, if you had to say, God, this is, this is, uh, what I'm passionate about doing next, what, uh, what's the vision look like?

Personally, professionally, what do you mean?

Both.

You know, I would say that my family is moving in, from a personal standpoint, my family's moving into a new phase, and I want to make sure I'm invested in my children's lives between the ages of 10 and 18. I think they're very, very, I don't wanna say vulnerable, that's not the right word, but I want to make sure that my influence on them has a, positive impact. And I don't want to lose that. It's really easy to get sucked into work. Sure. And I'm finding it harder and harder, I'll be honest, to make sure that I don't get sucked in. My days are long and we have a lot going on all the time. So for me, the next 10 years are really important to me and impacting my family. And then the other side, I have big plans. For the PD division. We continue to develop as a system. We've been a part of MUSC Health now for, I guess, going on just on 4 years. We had a pandemic in the middle of that.

Just a little thing.

Yeah, but really proud that we have set a vision to become what I'm sort of dubbing, you know, MUSC Charleston 2.0. That's the only way to describe it for me. It's a little mini academic medical center. We have filed to start a residency program and are well on our way to do that next summer. So we'll be bringing residents to the area. South Carolina exports physicians right now out of the state. We train more physicians in medical school than we have spots for residents. And so, you know, starting a residency will allow us to hopefully stop the bleeding, if you will. Sure. South Carolina needs more physicians. There's definitely a supply issue. That will be a big component to what we're trying to do. And continuing to invest in research. We have a research office here as an extension of the main campus, bringing more clinical trials. Part of the Hollings Cancer Institute is to extend clinical trials from the NIH-designated cancer institute. So that will be a next phase for us, if you will. Sure. It's just to enable the access to that. Without having to drive to Charleston.

No doubt. Well, and that's been one of the biggest things, I think, of the partnership, or however you describe it, the change to MUSC Health is the ability to have access to some of those things without having— because I can remember I'm from Pamplaco, so a lot of my folks spent time at the old Carolinas. And it was, uh, but if it, but if it got serious enough, there was a level where you were going to MUSC. And now that connectivity, I think, between the two is, is definitely, I mean, it's definitely good for the people here. And, and so the more, whatever those advanced things are, people can get access to locally. I know that that's a when. It's interesting because I appreciate your willingness to go there a little bit on the family side, and I just want to encourage you because it— you're 100%. My youngest is 16, and so our boys are— we got two 23-year-olds, 19 and 16. I mean, it is a critical period, and it is a— yeah, You know, I, and I've learned that the hard way between being busy or, um, you know, again, I went through a big health thing. I've lost a lot of weight and gotten re-engaged. Yeah, I just, I was there physically.

Yeah, yeah.

But just wasn't mobile, agile, and hostile like I like to think that I am now. And just my relationship, particularly with the youngest one, because he's the one who's still at home Yeah, I've noticed a tremendous difference with that. Again, being both physically present, also mentally present. So I know that's a lot to manage, but you know, the first step is understanding that it's something to be managed. And I have to thank somebody with your skill set for managing lots of inputs and variables. You'll get there.

I hope so. I hope so. I pray that I do. That's, you know, it's certainly somewhere that I would like to be. I'd like to be very invested. And I don't want to leave out my relationship with my bride. Of course. You know, obviously that, you know, that is incredibly important to me.

She's running it, sounds like.

She's number one. And, you know, I couldn't do what I do without her. And she has sacrificed a tremendous amount for me to be able to do what I do, but also to invest in our children. And I do not want to leave that off the table. She's an incredible person, incredible woman.

No doubt. Well, again, to be married to a, I imagine, a high D, or at least a super driven person, a leader, takes a special person. So she'd have to be special. So I'm curious, just kind of to wrap up our time together, you know, one of the questions I like to ask, just because I find it interesting, is if you could pick a fictional character that you think best represents Jay Haisley, who would it be and why?

I don't think I could narrow it down to one, so I'm gonna throw you a curveball. I watch every Tom Hanks movie there is. I love Tom Hanks. And I love every character Tom Hanks has. I don't know that there's a character out there that Tom Hanks represents that isn't, or that is evil, or somebody that I wouldn't relate to. He's usually caring, direct. He's usually a leader. And so he's a family man. I'm thinking of all the characteristics I've seen in Tom Hanks, with the exception of maybe Forrest Gump. But even Forrest Gump had some great attributes, obviously. So I'd say if I could combine all of Tom Hanks' characters. Okay.

Maybe it's that. Well, and again, to be honest, right, it could just be Tom Hanks.

Maybe it's just Tom Hanks.

Because I think that You don't end up in those roles by accident. Yeah, because they are— it's a wide variety. But I remember back when Tom Hanks got COVID, it was serious. It was serious. All of a sudden, it's kind of like, wait a minute, this is real.

This is real.

This is not fake news. So it is. Again, I think it's a neat character. And again, I heard the C word.

Caring.

Yeah, obviously that's super important to you. And again, I can't think of— because my brain is going 1,000 miles a minute, probably all the coffee— I can't think of a Tom Hanks character that— again, even Forrest Gump, for all his quirks, certainly had a lot of attributes that a lot of us would want to take home. Jay, appreciate it, man.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Enjoy it. Absolutely.