Dr. Richard O'Malley - Superintendent - FS1

This is Coffee with Cool People, and today I am joined by Dr. Rich O'Malley. Rich, how are you?

I'm well, how are you?

I'm doing great, man. I got to tell you, I was thinking about it this morning as I was getting ready. If there was a Mount Rushmore for change in Florence over the last, we'll call it 5 years, I'd put you up there. And I don't know who else would be on there, and I'm sure we could name names, but Man, really interesting as two Clemson Tigers. I'm glad to finally get to sit down and spend a little bit of time with you, man.

Well, that's great. I rarely get to sit down with another Clemson Tiger. I'm usually on the other side of a Gamecock, and they've had a pretty good year, so they definitely want to interview me now.

Yeah, they are. Yeah. Well, you're amongst friends today. How about that? Good to hear. So first question I like to ask just because I think it's interesting to see how people view themselves. Who is Rich O'Malley?

That's a great question. At 52 years old, I ask myself that question now. It's been a very interesting journey, my life. Strange enough, I was born in Great Falls, Montana. My dad was in the Air Force, and that's where he was stationed. And spent, if not all my life, in New Jersey. I think I read that in the paper. I grew up at what they call the Jersey Shore, which most people see on television. Sure. It's probably very much like that. But yeah, I grew up at the Jersey Shore. I had a really good childhood. Parents still married 55 years later. The oldest of 4. And I had a really good childhood, very simple childhood. Went to a neighborhood school, public school. And dad was a heating and air conditioning guy. I don't think he made more than $25,000 in my life. And, uh, but yet I never felt like I knew that we lived any differently than anyone else, which I think is probably the most important thing I value is being a parent and trying to replicate, although my dad only had a high school degree, I think he was smarter in life, um, than, uh, most people. And, uh, that's where it is. So I graduated and, uh, I was a high school wrestler. I think that's probably where I get a lot of my discipline from being a high school wrestler and still love wrestling today. Brought wrestling to Florence. Strange enough, our first state champion happened to be a girl in the high school, but we had two state runner-ups, but we've come a long way. And I think that discipline has helped me. My wrestling coach is still at my high school after 40 years, and I work out every morning and I probably still do a little bit of my high school wrestling workout. It's really been a discipline that I followed and has helped me think throughout the day. But I've been a superintendent. I started as a teacher at the school district that I started at, which was really nice, and worked my way through very quickly. I got great advice from my superintendent who gave me my first job and sort of laid a path out for me to say, get as much done as you can because you never know where life is gonna bring some path of ups and downs. So I took that advice and I became the youngest superintendent in New Jersey at age 32.

Wow.

And started— will be finishing my 19th year as a superintendent. So really have done most of my work in education as a superintendent than anything else. And for— I did 3 superintendencies in New Jersey, still have great relationships there, relationships with my board and board presidents, which I think speaks a lot of volume about who you are as a integrity and character. And I think in the world we live in today in education, if you can maintain that and not let people take that away from you, I think you've been successful. I think that's sort of been a thing that's been stripped away. But ending almost my 5th year here in Florence, which seems very interesting. I would look at my career as I started with a job then had a career, and I think Florence to me was a calling. Never would I thought that a Jersey guy would come to Florence, South Carolina, and be able to make some change like we have. Hasn't been easy, but I think people see it today, 5 years in the making of, you know, I think Florence has a real good chance to change for the better, and we feel the school system is a big part of it.

Yeah, I would tend to agree. You know, it's interesting you mentioned being a parent being a big deal, and you and I talked kind of before we kind of went on air about your kids, and I think one of the things that's easy to get lost is, you know, for parents changing jobs and making decisions around that is If it's just about us, it's usually probably pretty easy. But for you in particular, it's a big change for you because at least your girls, right? But I don't know if your son came down here as far as school. But I mean, you didn't just take on a new job. You brought a couple of high schoolers with you. So this was a family commitment when you came. What was that like?

It was interesting. I have my oldest— I have a son and two daughters, and my son was really in Florence one day and he went off to college, so he had graduated from high school. So I brought two sort of teenage girls to Florence, left some really close friends, and it was ugly. It was ugly for them. If you could see it through their lens, it was really scary of going to a different world and what they're comfortable with. And, but I will say, 5 years later, they've never been happier, which is really strong thing and a big sigh of relief for me. For sure. Great friends. They've really been accepted by Florence and their friends. They have— their roommates are Florence people, and they're really part of that Florence bond, which, as a dad, to see that from crying on the stairs from the first day of school, seeing the bathrooms at West Florence outside. They had no idea what— they didn't think— I think I remember their statement is, "You don't like us, do you, Dad?" Oh wow. But to see the change and see how much pride they have in Florence is a real turnaround for us.

For sure. Now, what did you teach?

So I taught 2nd grade, 5th grade, and 6th grade. Okay. I love middle school because They're just crazy. Something takes over their body, and the kids who never got in trouble get in trouble, and they're just unique characters. And I taught math, which I love math, and I always say if I ever won the lottery, I think that's what I would need to do, just teach middle school math, and I'd be happy.

How about that? It's interesting because I taught 6th grade language arts and history, so South Carolina history was And yeah, I joke that I was teacher for a year, which if you say it fast enough sounds like teacher of the year, right? And it was, again, I can— it is a— and I student taught third grade. And again, I often wonder whether or not my career trajectory would have been different if I had taken the job at North Vista. Teaching 2nd grade instead of at Moore teaching 6th grade. I don't know, but it's one of those things that, again, you would know. I joked before about, I remember being an elementary ed major at Clemson. I opened the door for a young lady trying to be a gentleman my first day of class, and 44 ladies later, I got to finally go in there. There were only a handful of us in elementary education. So that's— it's an interesting— it's an interesting career choice for a guy. Still is, I think. Yeah. Why elementary? And then kind of how did that evolve?

So I actually didn't go to— I didn't graduate from Clemson with elementary. I was psychology. I wanted to be a forensic psychologist. And I guess I'm around crazy people now anyway.

It worked out.

It worked out well. But when I, when I graduated Clemson, I went back to New Jersey and had a job in the state legislature, and I was the researcher for the Education Committee. And so I got to see how education sort of from a political and policy standpoint was done. And that's where I got my interest in them. Went back to school, got two master's degrees and got into teaching that way. And You know, my first job was in my town where I grew up and went to school, but it was in— we had a regional school district and was in an elementary school where it was 100% African American, and I was the only male teacher, and there were no male restrooms, as the female teachers had probably told you, and I was the basketball coach. It was some of the greatest times in my life, and I sometimes wish it could be that simple of life and just enjoyed everything about it.

Yeah, well, I can, uh, I can relate, you know, because one of the things that I did last year, now, now that I'm down to one left at home, uh, who is self-sufficient, doesn't need me, is went back at my boys' school and coached high school football. So for, for me, you were a wrestler, I was a football player, and, um, man, there's just a lot of joy in being able to be around those young people like that. So I definitely can, I can definitely relate. What was it like, so when, as you and I imagine it was first probably you and your wife, when you started looking at the potential of coming to Florence, what was that thought process like?

So it's an interesting story. I originally prior to that was maybe 3, 4 years earlier, uh, I was a finalist at Rock Hill, and they had flown me down. I still keep in touch with the board president in Rock Hill. We became good friends. But I remember they flew my whole family down looking at a house, and it was set to be done. And my wife turned to me and was extremely religious and said, you know, "There'll be a sign if this is the right thing." When I turned on my phone when I got off the plane in Charlotte, I had an elementary school that burned to the ground. Wow. I had a custodian. We, in New Jersey, part of the union contract was the custodians had to go in on the weekend, check everything, the boilers, make sure the heat was on. What the custodian had done is started to smoke and put the cigarette in the garbage can. 50-year-old building, wood ceiling, tar on the roof, burned to the ground in 40 minutes.

Whoa.

So I decided to stay, build that school, and 3 years later, the board president in Rock Hill called me and said, "There's a job open in Florence, and I think they really could use you. If you're interested, I'm gonna call the board president there and tell them that they need to hire you." And he had called Barry, and here I am 5 years later. So it's a really interesting story of how I wound up in Florence and through Rock Hill and through a tragedy turned into something good. But, you know, it was really about, like I said, it's a calling. You know, Jersey's ranked number 1 or number 2 every year in education, and the school district I was in was nationally ranked at one of the best achieving high schools in the country, and I just felt I needed to go to someplace to make a difference. And that calling was there. I don't know how to explain that. Sure. But 5 years later, I could say it was real.

Yeah, well, it would have to be because it's been a project, right? It's been a lot of work. So what's that? What's it been like? So walk me through the first year.

You know, so I guess the referendum to me, I've always said, was was the greatest gift I was given, although it didn't pass. I think it allowed me to do a lot of things, allowed me to meet a lot of people in a different scenario and understand the district in a way I probably wouldn't have understood it. And, you know, somebody gives you a check for $300 million, that really doesn't take a lot of thought to do things. And I think the way we have done so much without that kind of money and just reinventing ourselves I think has caught the attention of a lot of people that shows that we're really invested in what we're trying to do. So I think it's been a journey, it's been a fight. I bring a lot of different perspectives, which I think has benefited us. I mean, I think having that perspective and challenging the status quo at every level has been the thing I think The politics, racial tension are probably two things I wasn't prepared for. You hear about it, but where I come from, the diversity is there and there's so many religions and so many people of different ethnic backgrounds and it was just part of the culture of a Polish neighborhood and Irish neighborhood and Muslim, Catholic, that kind of stuff. And you had to adjust. And I think that was something that helped me grow. I mean, some people just do their whole career in one place and then say, hey, I got to hang it up. I think I've done it a little differently, gone to a different place and tried to reinvent myself. And I feel energized. Never felt better in my life and healthier and happier than I've ever been.

Couldn't have always been easy, though. That first year was tough. I remember, and we didn't know each other, I remember texting you, and I remember in my head, it's like, please don't let him quit. You know, I gotta ask, how close were you?

I think my wife was closer. I think the United Van Lines moving truck was actually parked in our driveway, just because it became really ugly because the politics were entrenched. There was an underground economy that that was happening here that was, you know, I always say follow the money. One thing I'm really good at is the money and the finance, and you know, I can understand why we were in the position we were in. I had to tackle that, and I had to almost tackle it by myself when you had a lot of political pressure, but there was also a lot of people that were standing there But, you know, it's a lonely world. But if you know you're doing it for the right reasons and you know what the ending would be, you just keep fighting. And I'm not a quitter. Never was going to quit. I'm a wrestler. So, you know, my whole life has been spotlight on you, you and one person. And at the end of it, you know, the loser gets to watch the other person get their hand raised in front of everybody. And that's kind of how it is. And being from Jersey, I think I had some pretty tough skin. So, but it was ugly. I mean, I know during the referendum, I mean, it got to a point where people were following my wife, stalking my house, and I'm like, people, we're just asking you to vote. Like, this is democracy. It wasn't like I did it and they were mad. It was like, hey, we're just asking a question. So But it was— we hit a point that I think people recognized. But that was, to me, the defining moment. And I think it's really set where we wanted to go to a new direction. So it was pretty ugly.

Yeah. Well, I can only imagine, though, that for folks who are on the other side of the issue, It has to say a lot that you come to town, you put out this big, we'll call it an agenda, this big vision, and the referendum fails, and you don't quit. Like, and it was, it was, I remember it was personal. It was, again, as somebody who didn't know you, felt bad for you. I mean, it's just kind of like, man, because I, I consider myself in my world, in my work, in my family to be a visionary. So, I tend to look down the road, but not everybody sees it, and it can be hard. And so, to come in and then have to face that couldn't be easy, but I have to think that enduring that, kind of taking it on the chin, if you will, And then going back to trying to find a different way to accomplish it, I have to think it's been for the, I guess, following 3 or 4 years, has to have been something great to build on. When people see, okay, look, got, again, I remember all the, I joked earlier, I read that in the paper. I remember reading, but the, all the knocks of, you know, he's not from here, he doesn't understand it, this isn't New Jersey, like all those, like, all that stuff, and you say, okay, that's fine, I still believe in it, I'm not going anywhere, let me figure out a way to get there. At a minimum, it has to earn the respect of people who even didn't necessarily, or at least a lot of them, who didn't agree with you.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that is what I was after, at least the respect and the value of education. I think that was what we were trying to say is how important our public schools are to Florence and where Florence wanted to go and just making that thing, that education, you know, South Carolina is ranked 47th in education. There's not a value system where we have a state legislature who thinks minimally adequate is a great way to define, you know, all those things send messages and, you know, how do you do all this by trying to motivate staff to be improved when everybody is just kicking you around and doing that, but it's about leadership. And I think ultimately, if you look around, not just in education, but people who stick it out earn respect. And I think ultimately that's all I was looking for, was earning respect. But my father always says, when they start calling you names, you got them.

Yeah, or they're at least paying attention.

They're paying attention, and they don't know how to fight on your turf, so you got them where you want them. So I, I've been called everything from Trump to Nancy Pelosi. I mean, those are two extremes, so that just shows me people don't know who I am, and I, I'm really somewhere majorly in the middle of those two for sure.

Well, so, you know, again, fast forward 4 years, we've come a long way. You know, what, what have been some of the biggest changes?

Uh, I just think our academic achievement and You know, everybody looks— in South Carolina, everybody looks to new buildings and things like that as benchmarks. I always said I didn't come here to build buildings, I just happened to fall into that, but I think our academic achievement and just the will to make Florence better, you know, winning state championships now, we compete on every level academically, athletically, musically and in our arts. And for me, you know, I've received a lot of awards, but for my staff to receive awards and my coaches, you know, I remember hiring Drew Marlowe at South Florence, you know, people came after me like I was, I was the devil. This guy has no experience, he's not from Florence, he doesn't know, again, this northern guy doesn't I didn't know anything, but what I did know is that guy had character and a moral compass like nobody can believe. And it took him 3 years through COVID and, you know, best coach in South Carolina now. Sure. State championships. And I think that really is the pride where we're changing the culture of Florence has such potential all around and people people all across the state are saying, what's happening in Florence? What's going on there? That to me is the greatest achievement of taking a whole city and a whole area and changing it.

Sure. Well, and look no further. You mentioned the Bruins and the state championship, but it's— I would argue it goes back to the football stadium. That was a— going back to the referendum, that was a bit like, why do these kids need football stadium? Talk about the importance of athletics and how that has played a role in some of the changes.

That's the South. I mean, athletics are a big defining part of culture. It's really weird to me, but you know, there's a lot of political undertones to that, but it was about trying to do a well-refined education. It was about the arts, it was about athletics, and it was about academics, and it was how do you do 'Can you really do all three of those things together?' And I said, 'Yes, you can.' And really was about building culture. And the stadiums are— you saw it not only in South Florida, but at Wilson, at West. I mean, you know, when South and West play, you know, we're selling out. You can't get a ticket. That is the culture. That is what we wanted to bring, that pride back that people want. And You know, there's still people that complain about it, but I just say, hey, like on a Friday night, who's sitting in those seats? It's been the hardest thing that people came after me about in the referendum, but it's the one thing everybody talks about right now. Yeah, it's really defined who we are and our investment in our students.

Yeah, and just even again, as a, I don't know, somebody without a dog in the hunt, to watch even just on social media, all of the parents who don't even have kids playing necessarily, who are jacked up about tailgating. And the— again, I think that it's been a— you're right, it is the South, but it didn't stop there. And I think that's one of the— it's that and getting rid of the mobile unit. I mean, very visible things. But I also have had an opportunity to participate in the Fellows in Education through the chamber and the school foundation, and it's not just about new buildings, you know, it is, you know, talk a little bit about the academic progress.

Yeah, I could say that that's been the one thing that doesn't get a lot of attention, but we really have made—

Funny, isn't it?

Yeah, funny. But it is what it was about. People cared about it, but it was weird that people didn't want to talk about it out loud. In some cases they were embarrassed. Meaning how we represented, where we fell statewide, you know, 70% of our student body is in poverty. And I don't think people really thought that that could happen. You know, our graduation rate is the third highest in the state compared to two districts that are 10% poverty. Our scores have never been higher on standardized tests. We have more kids in the higher academic classes. We implemented 67 new courses, 47 new programs. And remember, we did all this during 2 years of COVID I think that's what gets lost in all this is that we never took our foot off the pedal and it was just an aggressive way to say we will change. And I, I've given my board a lot of credit. They— it's uncomfortable for them because a lot of them were from here, right? And, um, I would assume that sometimes if you ever interviewed them, they were nervous too. But I told them to buckle up and here we go, and at the end of the day, judge me. And they've always stood firm with me. They don't always get the credit that they deserve as well. I, you know, because past history and how they were in the division, and I think if I look at one thing that I find the most important is we now have a board that is professional, we get things done, it's, it's really supportive around building a good school district. I think to me that's been probably the most exciting part of this is seeing people come together talk, share the differences, and then just move forward.

For sure. One, so athletics, academics, and then the arts. And I was recently at, uh, Southside, uh, or South Florence— I think it was Southside— seeing what's going on there with the arts program. Talk a little bit about kind of just the development there, because that's an area where I think, financially speaking, Over the years, people have diverted money away from those kinds of things.

It was an important part of the vision that if we're gonna do well in academics, we have to provide those other things for students. And athlet— if you're just going to invent, uh, invest in athletics, people will criticize you. What about this? That— and I've seen that, and that's part of my experience. So we did, if not more, into our arts program and our magnet schools and invested millions of dollars into our marching bands and instruments. I remember to this day, one of my first things was the Wilson alumni parade that they have and just watching the students walk down the street with duct tape instruments. I don't know how people get sick. —as, for lack of a better term, being acceptable. Right. And that was the catalyst for me in my mind, if I think back, to buy instruments for kids and just continually give them opportunities. Whether you— I shouldn't have your parents' income determine what kind of education. And that's been the forefront of what I've been trying to do here.

And you found the money. You didn't— the referendum taxes hadn't, to my knowledge, gone up, but you found the money. And you said you've always been good at the money, find the money. Where did that come from and how? And I don't necessarily mean in the budget here, I'm just more of a how have you gotten more done with, again, similar amount of resources?

I think, I think, you know, More people focus, even interviewing for superintendencies, most people focus on the revenue side and, you know, do you understand that. I've always felt like the expenditure side is probably the most important part of how do you maximize that to the classroom, to the kids, and I think that's what we did. We tore up the budget. The good thing I had was coming from a district similar size with a lot of experience experience and just said, we can do this differently. Why are we spending it there? And just challenging that status quo, what the district has done. I try not to ever fault anybody. They made the decisions when they were there. I wasn't there, and try to support them in that. But the budget was before me, and I think we could spend it a different way. I mean, there was a lot of money there, and If you can read an audit, you can tell who the school district is. And I think that was one of the first things I did was read the audit, and I knew the potential was there just from where it's at. And just reallocating the money as much as we can is what we've done. I mean, I think my second year we hired 66 new teachers. Think about this. And didn't raise taxes. I haven't raised taxes on the operating side in 5 years. Gave people raises and have done all this. We've raised it once in the debt service, but you know, though people have complained, we lowered it this year. But I think people see where the money's being spent.

I think that's an important part. Makes a big difference, no question. So what's next? Oof.

You know, the next 5 years is sort of next of what we can really do. Sometimes when you're on the top, people like to knock you off. So it's, as I explained to my staff, it's a lot easier climbing the mountain than standing at the top of the mountain. So right now we're sort of adjusting to say we're on the top of the mountain. A lot of people want to knock us off. So it's a redefining of who we are and, um, standing strong, doing the right thing. Um, and then just say, okay, what's the next 5 years look like? How can we get better at everything we do and not rest on the accomplishments we have, and I think there's a lot that we're set to move forward with, and it's an exciting time in Florence. I can tell you, I've lived here for 5 years, and no matter where I go, which has really made me feel like I've been— now I've made it— is that people are thankful. I think that's the most important That's the number one thing that I hear when people say, not like, "I appreciate what you've done," but "I'm thankful for what you've done." Because they see it. They see what it's done for the city. People are excited to talk about the schools and the city, and there's just a lot of excitement in Florence now. I'm glad to be a part of it.

Yeah, well, I'm glad you're a part of it too. Blank check. You could make one change. What would it be?

I would say pay my teachers more. Single-handedly, that's the difference between New Jersey being number 1 and South Carolina being number 47, is investing in professionals, making teaching a profession and a career that they value. I would give my teachers more money. More money isn't going to actually change student achievement, but it will change the profession, which ultimately it will lead down a road of a better school district.

Yeah, I think that's— it's, um, if you've never done it, you wouldn't know, but it's demoralizing. Now I'm going back 25 years at this point when somebody asks what you do, and back then, and you'd say you're a teacher, and they'd say, I'm sorry. And I, I can imagine it's only gotten harder. That's incredibly demoralizing. And I do think that, again, I think that's a great answer in terms of, um, you know, I think COVID made a positive step in terms of teachers getting the respect they deserve because those of us who were parenting kids at home during that period of time got a different experience, right? But, um, yeah, it's definitely a— nobody wants to do it, but Again, I do think that it'd be great to be able to shift the perspective on that even farther.

Yeah, you ask people who they value the most in their community, they're gonna say police, teachers. You value what you put your money into. I mean, that's what we've done in the school district. We allocated our money what we value. Academics, the arts, and athletics. And I think if people value that, they need to put their money towards that. And that's why I said if I had a blank check, it would be my teachers.

That's interesting. So just kind of wrap up, last question. I think that it's interesting. You may pick Paulie D or The Situation or Snooki for all I know, but I'm curious if you could pick a fictional— because I think the Jersey Shore folks are at least somewhat fictional— if you could pick a fictional character you feel like represents you. Best, who would it be and why? I wouldn't say Michael Corleone from The Godfather because that probably would be an offer you can't refuse.

Yeah, yeah, that, uh, I don't know, maybe, uh, Harry Potter. Love the Harry Potter and the mystery of trying to make all these things happening and always fighting off evil. Um, I think that's an interesting, but, uh, not a lot of thought. This first thing that came to my mind of, uh, maybe not a fictional, but To me, it's the first thing that comes to my mind.

Yeah, well, you certainly have done a heck of a job of it so far. I'm, again, as a parent, as a community member, thankful is a good word. Appreciate all the pouring in that you do to the kids, but also to the staff and to the teachers. I think that it doesn't go as noticed as I would hope that it would be, and I hope that as things continue to improve and change, that folks will continue to take notice and be grateful. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Appreciate you spending some time with me.

My pleasure.