Jean Leatherman - ERA Leatherman Realty

This is Coffee with Cool People. Today I'm having coffee with Jean Leatherman. Jean, thanks for spending time with me.

Good morning.

Good morning to you. Appreciate you coming out and spending some time. I like to ask just kind of upfront and first, who is Jean Leatherman?

Mm, oh dear, that's quite— that's one of those questions I guess we don't ask ourselves very often. I guess I'm a very traditional woman. My husband passed away 14, 15 months ago, and we were married for 43 years. So 43 years it was Hugh and Jean. So now it is more challenging to figure out who is Jean. Outside of Hugh's presence. And quite honestly, that is evolving. I pray very often that the Lord's going to show me the right path and where he would have me go, because, you know, it's very, it's very different when your life is changed as much. As mine has. As any woman's life would change if you, you know, when you lose your spouse. So when Hugh and I got married, I had been living in Charlotte. I was, I had traveled 2 and a half states selling commercial furniture. I traveled to the two Carolinas and eastern Tennessee to Nashville. So I was You know, in my mind, I saw myself as a very independent, successful, you know, sales representative for a furniture manufacturer. And then I bumped into Hugh. He was shopping for some furniture for a hotel down in Charleston. And so he loved to say that that was the best sale that I ever made.

I can relate.

So we, I guess we dated maybe a year and a half, and that was very frightening because he had 4 children that were grown. They were not very excited about me being in their father's life, some more than others. So he asked me to marry him. I don't think I gave him an answer for 2 or 3 days. I was so shocked and still trying to figure out, well, what does— what happens to your life now? Because I was very active in the singles ministry at First Baptist Church. You know, I had clients that I had been working with, and I had friends. And so then he asked me to marry him. We got married. I moved to Florence, didn't know a single soul. Other than one or two of his children, kind of. And we moved out to the Country Club of South Carolina, which was not a very good place to move a city girl. Sure. Because everybody out there at that time, they were back and forth to Florence.

Sure.

And, you know, not very many people there. So, shortly thereafter, Hugh decided he came home and said, I think I'm going to run for public office. He had had an uncle who had been in the House of Representatives in North Carolina in the past, so then he decided to do that, and I said, well, I can sell a candidate like I could sell chairs, you know. So, he ran for office, uh, we had our first daughter, Um, December of 1980. Two weeks later, he checked into the South Carolina Senate, um, and then it was on. And then we had a second daughter, and so then life just kind of unfolded with— we had an apartment in Columbia, so when the children were very little, we would pack up on Tuesdays and go with him and come back on Thursdays. So it was fun. We, I always told him we were going to smell the roses, and the little girls and I would walk around the State House and they would actually literally stop and smell the rose bushes that were on the Capitol grounds. Then when they started school, of course, that kept us here, and as the years went on You know, we just did political things. We always did. We always went to pretty much every event that was happening in Florence, and that gave me my social outlet. Otherwise, I would have been probably a very poor stay-at-home mom because I really love being around people. So it was, it was really unnatural for me. It was more natural probably for me than it was for Hugh because he's As a classic engineer, you know, personality, he wasn't quite as naturally outgoing. Now, he worked on that over the years and became much more outgoing as, as time went on. So then I took some courses at Francis Marion while the girls were in school, and then He came home one day and he said, uh, I want to build some houses and I want you to sell them. I think you'd be great at real estate. And I said, really? And he said, yeah, well, I'm going to build some houses and I want you to sell them. I said, okay. So then I got started on my own. Well, we moved into town in 1986. Oh, that was the terrible year that he ran for governor. We redid the house in Country Club, moved in right when the campaign was gearing up, and then he wanted to run for governor. Well, we— I had relatives and everybody stay with the children, and I'd have a little driver, and I would go and put in an appearance one place and make a speech, and he would be somewhere else. And it was an eventful year, but not with a good ending. So he learned very quickly that being in the South Carolina Senate was much more effective than running for governor or winning the governorship because he had a lot more power as the years went on. So my life basically was filled with the girls and with his political activities and his political life, and thankfully he always wanted me involved in that. We were active members of First Baptist Church for 23 years, I think, and then the church went through some changes and eventually we joined Central United Methodist. So the church is— the church and our belief in the Lord has always been an important part of my family's life, my children's life, and I'm very thankful for that. They are We have two young, we have two young daughters. Amy is the older one and she lives in Charleston and she is a CRNA and puts children to sleep at Shawn Jenkins Children's Hospital. She actually works on the heart team. So when little babies have a heart problem, she's putting them to sleep. Wow. Sarah has her MD. She's an internal medicine physician and has started her own business in the last few years. So she is truly an entrepreneur and very much like her father. And then we have 4 children that are grown. Sheila Hardy lives in Columbia. Ken, his only son, is a retired urologist in Raleigh. Karen, of course, is— has a medical testing business. And Lynn has now recently retired as a CRNA. So, um, still a big family. And, um, so now I'm trying to figure out who I am and what I'm supposed to do. People ask me all the time, are you going to move where your children are? Well, they're busy. I don't think my sons-in-law want me to live with them. And I don't want to live with them, and thankfully I don't think I have to. I also figure that if I've been in Florence for 43 years and have been building friends and relationships, it seems an uncanny time to start all over again. For sure. Meeting new people. Now, there are people who move to Florence every day, and that's what they're doing, you know. They're starting over, but I don't think, I can't really see myself doing that. Maybe at some stage, but you know, I love my grandchildren, but they have lives and I want them to have full and rich lives. I think that's a wonderful part about being a mother is letting your children have their own lives and live theirs. But now they are wonderful to me and we spend our holidays together. And I have the last couple of years, I have at Christmas, we've always made a big deal outta Christmas. And if people wanna ride by and take a last look at the Christmas lights on our big magnolia tree, they probably should do that pretty soon because I don't think I'll ever do that again. The squirrels are eating my lights, and it's quite expensive to get a bucket truck to buy enough lights to go for two magnolia trees. I've already undone one of them because the wires were gone again. So anyway, what I have, I have been committed to, as I always have been, trying to keep the family together as a whole, and, uh, I love all the children, and so Christmas, we had everyone, and they all came, and we all celebrated Christmas Eve together like we always have. And so that's a part of my role that I don't want to give up. Now, as a small business owner, I also don't want to not be a business owner. I like being able to make my own decisions. I like being able to make contributions to charities that mean something to me, whether it's do a sponsorship for the symphony, their Taste of Florence, or the School Foundation Gala, or the School Foundation Dancing with the Stars, or all the organizations that are so worthy of support in Florence. I'm a member of Florence Rotary. I'm still doing, I'm still program chair, which I've been doing forever, and trying to find interesting and innovative speakers to fill our Monday lunch schedule. And so that's fun, and I, life is good, you know. I'm just, you know, it's different having to manage a house by myself. As I told you, I had the electrician there already this morning, yesterday the pest control people and Spectrum, and you know, when you're taking care of a home, there's always something that needs to be done. But, but life is good, and I'm thankful for my friends, and I have great staff at work, and they've all been with me for a long time, and they make it possible you know, to carry on a business even in the midst of, you know, changing times. I mean, I don't know that any of us really know where real estate is going. It's quite different in the last few years after COVID.

Yeah, so it's interesting to me that as successful as you are as a business person, that was the last thing that really that you mentioned. And I think that says a lot because as, again, as successful and as I know as much of that is a big part of your life, it's obvious it's small in comparison to a lot of other things. And I think that says a lot about you. I think it's fascinating. But it's interesting, you know, talking about, you know, my parents got divorced after 42 years. Wow. And so I think it was 42, give or take. And watching my mom move on, because it's very much— now my dad has since passed, but I mean, it's very much— and she moved from Pamplaco to Florence. And so again, her friends were still close enough that they could still spend time together, but it was different rebuilding and figuring out a lot of those things. And so I know that it's not easy, but it is, you know, it's been amazing to me to watch you deal with that with such grace, but also to kind of keep on keeping on, you know. You don't— we don't get to stop. And, um, again, uh, not to, um, stay on that topic too long, but you weren't married to an average guy.

No.

Anybody from, I don't know, 3 or 4 states around here knows that. And, um, again, I think it's admirable the way that you kind of, you know, chose to support his ambition when you guys kind of got together and when you moved here. But again, it's not like then that was all you did because you've also built a really successful real estate company and you talked about— I'm curious, Gene, you've been doing that for a long time. You said since '86?

No, I didn't start real estate until I guess the girls were maybe in at least middle school, maybe high school. Okay. So it was, it was probably '90s, I guess, somewhere along there.

But 30 years. Yeah. Give or take. You've seen a lot. What has been, what's been the biggest change?

Technology. Social media. The internet. You know, it's really easy for us to stop and forget how dramatically the internet has changed all of our lives. When I first got in the business, we had to wait, and every 2 weeks they printed the MLS book, and people waited at the building and would go by and pick up their MLS book because it had all the new listings in it. And then of course today That's— it took a long time, but no longer is there an MLS book. It is entered this afternoon in my office, and it is on the internet nationally, internationally within hours, if not quicker. And when we first started, we would take a camera, we would go and take photos of a property, we would go to CVS or somewhere or Eckerd's or one of the places and get the prints developed and print, I don't know, 36 copies of a picture of the front of the house, go back to the office and print a flyer, and then we'd glue them to the flyer, and that's what you used for marketing. Wow. And even I wasn't in, I didn't get in the business. There were mechanical lockboxes, but a lot of times before that, people drove to each other's offices, picked up a key. Now, if I pick up a key today, very likely I will ride it around for days and an agent will call me and say, would you please bring my key back? Because now we have an electronic key box. Hanging on the property, and I know instantaneously when an agent opens that box. I know who it is, I know what company they're with, and I can see how long they stay in the house. Because when they close the lockbox, I get another signal that says end of showing. So if they didn't stay but 5 minutes, you figure, well, not selling that one today. That one's not going to work. So the internet's probably been the biggest factor of changing our business. And competition. Now we have so many realtors in Florence, but it's very challenging to convince the general public of how different realtors are. Training, life experiences, I approach this real estate business like the body of knowledge that I have reaped over the years in everything that I have done, whether it's working or selling or raising a family, everything I learned about the community. You bring all that together and you bring that to the table to solve real estate problems. And so many of the people today that are in the business, one, have no training. They just, you know, are excited about getting a chance to sell a house and look at houses. But it— there's a dramatic difference in people's experience and what they know and what they bring to the table. So if I could wave a magic wand, I would wish that every buyer or seller had very credible representation to help them because it's still a very complicated business. There are all kinds of things that you run into every day, and that's one of the reasons I still love it. It's a dynamic, changing business. Not a day goes by that I don't learn something new, and it stimulates your mind. It keeps your brain working. It's good. I love real estate.

So over that period of time, the internet changed a lot of things. What is, what's something, yeah, I think it was Jeff Bezos, they were asking him about Amazon and they said, you know, what are the 3 things you think that are going to be most important in the next 10 years? You know, what are the things What are the things that you see as, I don't know, reasons for change? You know, what are you building the company on? And his answer was, you're asking the wrong question. He said, I'm building Amazon on the things that won't change. People are going to want things quick, inexpensive, and they want to be able to get anything that they want whenever they want it. And so I'm curious. When you look at real estate, what's something that hasn't changed? I mean, if you were— again, if I look at my business, I want to build it on things that, based on my 25 years of experience, they haven't changed in that entire period of time. What's something that hasn't changed?

The most important thing that hasn't changed and won't change in my mind are having values, having values that guide you to protect your client. I mean, we really have a huge responsibility to— we have a fiduciary responsibility to protect our client's best interest. We are supposed to carry out a transaction, whether it's buying or selling, as if we were doing that for our own personal gain. And so looking after the individual client is really— that value can't change. Now, community knowledge is another necessary ingredient for real estate, and My husband's 41 years in government has always challenged me to be up on news in Florence and news particularly in the state of South Carolina. So I have always been a student of news, current events, And then I bring that to the table with real estate. That involves schools. Where would children— I mean, where would a family want to send their school— children to school? So the first thing you always ask them is, you know, how large a home do you need? Do you prefer newer construction or do you prefer an existing home that is reselling? A lot of people say, well, I want trees and I want green and I want large lots. And so then you say, okay, if then you need to buy a home in an established neighborhood, that means that you may have to do some remodeling to bring it up to today's standard. But if they want brand new, then there is an explosion of new construction. There has been a lot of new construction, especially prior to and during COVID but we are expecting a lot more new construction to come. Now, I'm not real sure that it's going to be the standard which those of us who have been in Florence for a long time expect. Because times are changing and they are building a lot of modestly priced homes. Well, we, they would have been modestly priced in years past because I would imagine we have probably seen about a 20% increase in value in the last year and a half or so. That's a shocking, that's a very shocking for those of us in the business.. So establishing a business on values, keeping the client at the forefront, and realizing your liability to them. I can't think of what a third factor would be because all that is so personal and, well, and taking— I would have to say then taking care of my agents that work with me and my staff that works with me. My agents know they can call me or text me at any time and that I will help them with a problem. Now, we don't always solve them, but I always have their back, and I try to be sure that, that, you know, we do the right thing and that we protect our client because that is our responsibility.

No doubt. Yeah, you definitely— you've got a great team, and, and I think that for any person in business, you're only as good— yeah, I've— again, in our office, I call it inside out. You know, I have to take care of myself because if I don't, I'm no good to anybody, right? Take care of my team, right? And, and in turn, then we have to take care of our clients because otherwise Again, if you're not taking care of you and if the people that you work with aren't well taken care of and taking care of themselves, it's hard to take care. It's the old oxygen mask.

That's right.

Put yours on before assisting. Yeah. Other passengers. Gene, when you talk about Florence and when you sell Florence, somebody's coming in new from out of town, what do you think have been either the biggest things of late or what are the key factors? When you talk about whether it's a new doc or a new executive or somebody moving into town, what are the couple of things that you think are great about Florence that you always— I'm sure there are lots of them, but I mean, what are the first few things you like to highlight?

Well, our quality of life. Our quality of life is amazing. We can accomplish life every day easily without interruption, without huge traffic. We don't have to spend an hour going to work or getting home from work, which would mean you'd lose 2 hours a day. Now we spend 15 minutes going one way and 15 minutes the other way. I tell people all the time, Florence is a wonderful place to live. And to have a family. Look at our— I have so many people who ask me, "How is it that you have a civic center, a performing arts center, a little theater? How can y'all have all of those things in a community this size?" Well, Florence is amazing from a cultural standpoint. You think of all the fine arts that we have here, We have wonderful artists who share their talents with us. You know, the fundraising events that we have in town are some of the most delightful evenings and times out that any of us can have. Now, maybe we need a few more restaurant choices for people, and, but I have also told some of the people from Charleston, well, at least If we have a nice restaurant, we can get a reservation, which you cannot do in Charleston. And Charleston is a lovely city to visit, but I would not want to live with the traffic and all the details that they have every day. And it's, you know, and we're compact. I mean, we really are a community. Like even my daughter who lives at Murrells Inlet, I mean, you know, they're up and down the Strand going to Paulie's and all the other places that are around them, but they really have a lot of driving to do, whereas here in Florence, I mean, we're convenient. It's just a great quality of life. People are nice, they are friendly and courteous to each other, and I hope that never changes. Me too. Yeah, because our people here in Florence are wonderful.

Yeah, and I usually also say, and if there are other things that you like that we don't have here, this is a great 6-day-a-week town at a minimum. But if you need to get out of town for a day, there are a lot of different places you can go.

Oh yeah.

And leave and be somewhere for lunch and be home for dinner and spend time in whether any of anywhere along the coast or Charleston or Columbia or I mean, I've made Greenville many times down and back with kids and Clemson, and so it is, again, it's just a, it's a great place to be 95% of the time, and if the other 5% you want to be somewhere different, it's super convenient to get almost anywhere else.

We mountains to the sea. We've got it all, and it's a wonderful community to live in, and I've been so blessed. We have been so blessed to be a part of this and plan to keep going.

Sure. So Jean, I got two more questions. The first one, if you don't mind my asking, you certainly tell me only or it's none of my business. I'm cool with that. You spent a long time with the senator. Not a lot of people got to— obviously nobody got to know him like like you did, but I'm sure there were a lot of people who wouldn't be comfortable asking him questions. What's something about Hugh that you want people to know that you don't think that they do?

He was so— he loved state government. He so appreciated the voters of this district continuing to send him to Columbia so that he could develop seniority and therefore power to be able to bring back to our people. He loved calling Fred Carter, President Carter, and saying, Fred, what do we need in the budget this spring? You know, what building is next that you need on your campus? Or Florence-Darlington Tech? Or— he was so attuned to let's grow Florence. And as a matter of fact, when I passed by the Performing Arts Center, I came down to Argonne to meet you this morning. I came down and I passed by the Performing Arts Center and I remember we had his celebration of life there, and Fred had looked at me and he said, "Well, you know it's his building," because he had gotten $15 million state money out of the $37 million that, that it took to build our new performing arts center. And it's just such a dynamic facility that has dramatically changed downtown. So he always was thinking, always was on about what can we do next. As a matter of fact, his last focus was on trying to get the state to give $400 million for behavioral health.

Oh, wow.

Up until the last week of his life, he still talked to lawmakers about, "We need to focus on solving this problem and helping people who don't have a voice." And very soon there's going to be an announcement that we're going to have a new facility in Florence to help people who are facing different challenges in their life than we might imagine. So his service, his mindset of service, his interest in so many different things, his engineering mind was always thinking of what to do next. I told some people last week in some comments that I made in a speech, I said, you know, we ride down a road But when Hugh's riding down the road, he's thinking, what is this going to be like in 20 years? Where do we need roads that connect people for growth in the future? And, you know, a lot of people criticized him for like the Pamplaco Highway expansion, but it wasn't trivial to the people who drive to work Every day.

Yeah.

So his love and dedication of state government, his love and dedication for Florence would be what I would want people to know the most about him, that he was genuine, he was sincere. What you see was what you got. He just, you know, he was just a plain old guy.

Sure. Well, he loved it as much as He looked like he loved it. Yes. And that's a lot. And I, again, I think it says a lot about him that, you know, like you said, in the last week of his life, he's worried about other people and getting things done, you know. Oh yeah. And again, that was one of the things that I think that if the folks around here were to say anything about him, It would be that he could get things done. So I don't think there's any, any doubt about that.

He was proud of that.

Yeah, I bet. Gene, if— last question— if you could think of any kind of fictional character, movie, book, comic book, whatever, that you feel like best represents Gene Leatherman, who would it be and why?

I don't know that I can even think of that. I mean, I'm just, I'm not your real creative kind of person. I'm more of a literal person. So I don't know. I, my life has generally unfolded by being encouraged by the people that are around me. And it's more, I don't know, I guess I'm more influenced by others probably than, probably than having the real creative side. I can't, I can't, I don't know that I can, I don't know that I could think of a person.

Alright, well I'm going to give you one and see if it lands and I can When you were saying that, and again, it's a weird association, I think, but I thought about Piglet from Winnie the Pooh, who was just always there by Pooh's side or encouraging Eeyore or dealing with Tigger's bouncing around. And again, not remembering everything about the character specifically, just feel like kind of always there and there for everybody else and, and didn't necessarily make themselves the focal point of the story. Um, but when I hear you talk, that sounds like— again, that would be if I were trying to, to think of something off the top of my head, you know, just obviously somebody who is super interested in supporting and lifting up other people, whether it was Senator Leatherman or your kids or, you know, your team or the community. And I think that's an awesome legacy to still be building.

Well, isn't that what a life of service is supposed to be? It's very ironic that you would pick Piglet and Pooh. When Amy was born, the first time he looked at her, He called her Amy Poo. And so his nickname for her all her life has been, was, and Poo. So he had nicknames for most of the children. So, but I like that. I'll take that.

You roll with that?

I'll roll with that because I love helping people. I love I really feel like it's our responsibility to build others up that are around us and encourage them and help them, any people that we encounter, to be the best that they can be. It's, that's life. You know, it's the way I want to live life.

Amen. Amen. Jean, thanks for spending time with me.

I enjoyed it. Well, thank you, Chip. This has been a pleasure. It is always— thanks for your friendship over the years. Always mighty proud of you and Tricia and your family and the contributions you make to the Florence community.

Well, we love it here, and again, it's, uh, it is what it is because people like you. So thank you.

You're welcome.