Elizabeth Jones - Executive Director - McLeod Health Foundation

This is Coffee with Cool People, and today I am having coffee with Elizabeth Jones. Elizabeth, how are you?

I'm great.

Awesome. It is, uh, it's exciting to get to spend a little bit of time with you. I wanted kind of just to warm things up, maybe make sure that you're not too nervous. Tell me, who is Elizabeth Jones?

Goodness. Um, so Elizabeth Jones, Elizabeth Benoit Jones, was born and raised here in Florence, South Carolina, 38 years ago. Love Florence, but never thought I would come back. Went to school here, elementary school at All Saints, then went on to Sneed, West Florence, graduated, went to University of South Carolina. Go Gamecocks! And had the time of my life. Wish I would've known a lot of things now that I knew then, or know now that I knew then. But graduated, and actually during college I worked for Senator Leatherman.

Oh cool.

And I was, I started out as a page and then they hired me hired me before I graduated college. So really commend him, the service and work he did for our community, and obviously the staff there that helped me kind of get where I am today. So lived in Columbia for a few years and then said, you know, I'm ready for a change, and met my husband, now my husband Phil, and he was living in Florence and he's a teacher and coach. And I said, you know, I'm kind of ready for a change. I think I'm gonna move back to Florence. And so we got engaged and that of course prompted that even more to move back. So moved back and you know, I'll never forget when I walked into Central Leatherman and Robbie Dawkins' office and told them I was leaving and they said, well, where do you wanna work? And I said, well, I guess I'd wanna stay with the state system. And so of course they called Dr. Carter for me and I met with Dr. Carter and Jay Dowd. You remember Jay Dowd?

Oh, for sure.

And gave me the opportunity to go work there at the university. And so it was just amazing to come back, and that's kind of where I started my fundraising career. Um, actually during college, I, um, went and studied abroad in Australia for the summer, and I worked for a nonprofit, Young People Lovin' with Cancer, called Canteen. So that's really where I kind of got my start with, um, being involved with philanthropic organizations and learning to, you know, give back, but then also, you know, getting other people to be involved with those organizations. Real passionate about everyone being involved and giving back to the community because it only makes the community a better place. But then about, I guess, 8 years ago, I came to McLeod Health and Roxana called me one day and said, "Hey, I think we've got a position that we're going to be opening. Would you like to come run one of our capital campaigns?" And I said, "Absolutely." So it's amazing how God kind of puts you in different places at different times of your life. I was kind of going through a time that didn't know really how I wanted to— my next move for my career. And so I was, you know, very thankful the opportunity opened. And now here I am 8 years later, and I'm now the new executive director of the McLeod Health Foundation.

That's exciting.

So I'm very grateful for that. And through the years, I guess my husband and I have been married 13 years now in March, and we have 2 children. All boys. A 10-year-old, Coleman, who loves football and Patrick Mahomes.

The draft was last night. Okay, absolutely. I saw Patrick on the draft.

And then I have Lucas, a 6-year-old. And so our life is just constant with 2 boys and sports, and that's what we do all day, every day.

Listen, don't blink, as the song says. You will certainly miss it. You know, Trish and I have 4 boys, and You know, our youngest is 16, and he is now picking back up. So I coached football this past year at Trinity, and he has decided now that he's going to try out for the football team. But I haven't done— listen, I miss the back of a Suburban full of buckets of baseballs and equipment of some sort. So Definitely, you know, they'll come. It seems super busy right now, but again, one of the reasons that I ended up coaching football was because everybody else was gone and doing other things. Trish was involved at the little theater, and you don't realize how much of your time that fills up and what a full life it can be from families at the ball field, or, you know, it's a great season of life. It's busy, but it's really cool.

Well, it's really neat. We do a lot of city league sports, and so it's just neat to meet all different peoples of walks of life and those friendships that you form. You know, it's funny being from Florence. I say this all the time. I said, it's so many people here that you still don't know. Sure. And so it's great to kind of see a different, you know, get to know folks on a different level than when you're with them every 4 nights a week and every weekend on the football field or soccer field or whatever it may be, it's great to get that.

And you know them forever. I mean, it's one of those things where what I have found is eventually your kids go to different schools or you're not on the same team or you're not at the same park or field anymore. But especially now with social media, it's easy to keep up with people. I circled back up actually last week with, with a couple of guys that I had coached with out at Maple Park. That I hadn't seen yet. I mean, again, all our kids are in college. Yeah. And you catch right back up. It's, it's really— again, I think that's a— it's a super fun part of life. Where does, where does Phil coach and teach?

Phil coaches and teaches at Wilson High School. All right. So he does offensive line there and loves it. And he played football at Carolina. So we're good Gamecock fans. Awesome. Didn't know each other in college. He's 6 years older than I am.

So cool.

Um, but yeah, that's our life during the fall is football.

How about that? Well, good, because I'm like the backup second string offensive line coach at Trinity. I'll tell my father. Um, I may need some suggestions because I have officially, or successfully I should say, avoided having to talk to parents, having to really run any of the drills unless somebody isn't there. I really just like being in. I'm sure, uh, you know, he gets into the technical stuff and, and I just like being around the young people. It is a blessing. It's a neat, neat thing and cool for him. You know, I taught school for a year and God bless him. That's tough work. Yeah, I taught 6th grade when I first came back to— well, came to Florence because I was from Pamplaco. So yeah, I was a 6th grade teacher and it's not easy. It's not easy. Now again, being a football coach and a former football player at Carolina, it might have been different. My biggest thing was like, I just didn't like the discipline part of dealing with— I was 22, the kids were 12. So we all listened back in, back then in '97, we listened to Eminem, we played Sega, you know. So we were incredibly, you know, much too similar. So I'm curious how, you know, it's a It's been an interesting transition for you. So you came over to McLeod, um, you know, to run a capital campaign, but then this year, big change, um, taking over as executive. In fact, when I had coffee with Jill, had no idea at the time that she was going to retire. I don't, I don't know if anybody did. And so, um, what has that transition been like?

It's been good, you know. So I guess I was hired back in January Jill officially stepped down the end of March. She is staying on PRN to help. You know, 32+ years of institutional knowledge is huge, so I definitely need, you know, a helping hand every now and then. But it's been great. I mean, it's, you know, I believe in processes and procedures and getting that straight, but also putting, you know, team members where they're going to be successful. And so, you know, we all of course have things in our jobs that that we don't, maybe don't like to do all the time. But, you know, I firmly believe that if you get up every day and you enjoy going to work, and that's what we obviously want everyone to do, but you got to put them in the roles where they're going to be successful. Because if they're successful, then the team's successful. And I just think that's one thing I've been trying to work on is kind of rearranging some roles and responsibilities so we're all successful at the end of the day, because that's what's going to all make us happy and make us want to keep going forward to reach those goals. So that's been great. I have a great team and, you know, they're fun and I'm looking forward to hopefully growing that team one day too as we continue. Yeah, it's really amazing to be able to see when I started at McLeod, we were raising about $4 million and now we're raising about $14 million. Wow. But really to see those gifts at work, I mean, that's what really motivates you to continue going every day to be able to see the the buildings and the services and the programs we're able to provide for our patients. You know, I love this. We're a mission-driven hospital system, not a for-profit hospital system, and you can tell that in the work that our caregivers do every day, our staff, nurses, whoever it may be on the team, do every day to help the patients here in the PD region. So It's been a great experience and look forward to kind of seeing what the next 15 to 20 years holds at the foundation and the hospital.

Well, it's interesting because, you know, I spent 9 or 10 years on the foundation board, and I remember you talking about being able to see the gifts at work. One of my things with Jill at the time was I don't want to be on the investment committee. I do that all day. I want to be on the grants committee. I want to see what's going on and where the money's going because that's, frankly, that's the stuff that makes you feel good, is really seeing where people get helped. And I remember from my time on the foundation board that, you know, one of the questions that you get a lot is, well, McLeod's a big old hospital, I get my hospital bill, you know, surely they've got to be making money, why do they need me to give money? And again, eye-opening experience. And you guys, and maybe you can touch on a couple of them, you guys have lots of programs where people can kind of get behind the curtain to understand, you know, Fellows for example, to understand what all. But I was shocked at all the things even back then, because this would have been probably during the $4 million, uh, of raising a year at the services that the hospital, that they lose money on, that they can't and wouldn't provide if it weren't for outside giving. And so whether it's the mobile mammography unit, a lot of the stuff I think in the NICU, um, talk a little bit about that. I mean, what is the—

I think one of the, um, areas that probably doesn't get I can't say it enough for people who don't realize is that we have the only cancer clinic in the state of South Carolina. So for those patients, indigent patients that can't afford their cancer care, you know, going through chemotherapy, radiation, we don't turn you away. Other hospitals have closed those programs down. So we have the Hope Fund, um, helping oncology patients every day. Then we have a big cancer benefit in September to help, and Robin Aiken helped start this fund. She saw a need. Um, but I can't imagine getting the, you know, the, um, call that I have cancer, and then the fact, how am I going to pay for this? I don't have insurance. How am I going to, you know, a lot of people would want to just give up. Yeah. And I mean, honestly, this fund, the Hope Fund, has really given those patients hope, and we're able to see those patients, and our providers, they provide the same level of care whether you can afford to pay or not. And they have no clue, honestly, if you're a cancer clinic patient or just a regular patient.

Sure.

And so I think that's, you know, a huge need. Our children's hospital is amazing. The NICU, we just went and did a Capital Campaign for that. Private rooms that you're able to, you know, stay in there with your littlest one and have around-the-clock care. I mean, our physicians are amazing there as well. And then Of course, our hospice house. I was just at a meeting yesterday with hospice, and I mean, you know, we're the only inpatient hospice facility here in this region. And for— I know you've experienced with both of yours, but family members, um, it's to be able to go there and, you know, in your last days, really, you know, have all your dignity and be in a place that is comfortable. But also that one-on-one care with with those physicians and those nurses. And so it's really amazing everything we're able to do. And then of course, obviously all the growth we have here in the coastal region. And then of course in these areas where there wouldn't be hospitals if McLeod wasn't there. And that's because of the mission-driven service that we like to provide to those, you know, patients in those regions.

Sure. Well, I haven't, thankfully, I haven't spent a tremendous amount of time in McLeod as a patient, but I can certainly speak as a family member. You know, the diagnosis of cancer, particularly certain kinds, can already feel like a death sentence. And cancer doesn't care how much money you have, not one bit. What color, which hair, what car you drive. And again, in my dad's case, It didn't matter how much money he had because it was inoperable. It was, you know, and, you know, so it is a— I can't imagine. Again, it's humbling and difficult if you feel like you could afford the care, whether it's via, you know, insurance or private pay or whatever. But on top of that, if you do have a routine to the extent that there is a routine form of cancer, maybe a simpler, less aggressive, and you can't afford it. I mean, it's just something growing in your body that, yeah, without some help from somebody, it's, it's going to kill you. And again, spent time not in the NICU. My stepson was in the NICU, but my boys were all born prematurely and spent a lot of time in the hospital hoping that we wouldn't go in the NICU, and prior to that toured the facility. My sister-in-law was a nurse up there for years, and again, I can't— and I've had an 18-month-old in the hospital before just for some minor stuff. I can't imagine your kids up there and you're stuck. And so again, I didn't know that there are now some private rooms where you can actually stay with them. That's That's some scary stuff. And so it's neat that you guys are, not only are you, it seems like, figuring out the funding for it, but also working, I'm assuming, with staff or whomever to identify ahead of time what the need would be. Like if we could figure out what's the ideal, to the extent, again, there's any ideal in a hospital setting maybe, What could we do if we could do anything? Again, just to be— to know that somebody's out there thinking about how to make lives easier for people who are in there dealing with— again, you're not in the hospital most of the time, with the exception maybe of labor and delivery. You're not necessarily always in there for good news, and so it's hard enough as it is. You know, so I think that that's a really, again, it's a valuable thing that you guys do.

We're there if you need us. Sure. That's what we like to say. We don't want you to, we really don't want you to be in the hospital if you don't have to be, but we're there if you need us.

I think, and again, maybe this is a conversation I can have with one of the administrators sometimes, I think that the general public underestimates the importance to hospitals, because I work a lot with physicians and administrators, of keeping people out of the hospital, or if you come in, not going back. You know, the idea of getting people well and checked out, and again, the metrics that they keep up with of, are people being readmitted, and the impact that that has on the system. It's a Again, it's a complicated system. It's pretty, it's pretty fascinating. So talk about, I want to talk a little bit specifically about the fellows program because I've gone through that, several of my team members have, and it's a great, again, kind of behind-the-curtain view of what's happening at the hospital.

Yeah, it's a great experience. You know, it's funny, a lot of people like you you and said, "Can we have a Fellows 2.0?" You know, because really, if you, you know, we started the program in 2006 and, you know, it was where we were bringing community leaders in to really see the inner workings of how the hospital system works and the good, bad, and the ugly.

Sure, I saw somebody almost faint watching the surgery, so.

But, you know, I think it's very eye-opening to be able to see that and also have the trust of the leadership and administrative educators and the physicians to tell you what's going on at your local hospital. But yeah, we started in 2006, I think.

Was it—

were you in the first class?

I was in the first class, sure was.

Um, and then of course now I guess this will be our 16th class. We did take one year off of COVID where they're actually about to graduate in two weeks. And so we continue to have, you know, 17 to 18 individuals, community leaders, um, that join us every year. And it starts in September, and again, they go through every service line of the hospital and do a tour and see, um, you know, hear from physicians and leadership and what's going on in the community. So it really is, it's ever-changing. And, um, but, and then we also bring everyone back once a year, which I think you came, especially to kind of get an update on what's going on. And so it's been so successful, we've actually replicated the program at our coastal—

awesome—

area. Okay. Um, and so we have that as well. And then we're trying to maybe start one in Clarendon. Cool. As well. So for those in the community members to come in and see the hospital, because they really are doing a great job all throughout the system.

And it's just a— it's just a different— again, a different vantage point. When you come in as a patient, you're not paying attention to a lot of the stuff that's going on. And quite frankly, a lot of the stuff that's going on is annoying because you're sick or your family member's sick and the idea of let me scan this bracelet or whatever it is, it's a completely different deal to walk in looking at it to the extent that anybody can from the outside, from the healthcare provider's perspective and look at it at the, again, for example, the safety component of it, of why are we doing these things? It's because we don't want to deliver the wrong medicine. The reason we don't want to deliver the wrong medicine in a lot of cases is obvious, but it's also, it's a very, again, I think back to, and I don't know if it was during, all the way back to 2006 or since, you know, some of the conversation around what the data said about, um, you know, misprescribing or giving the wrong dosage, or— and the reason for a lot of those changes being specifically tied to outcomes. And that's, um, again, going back to— I remember the first time, um, I met Donna. Donna was over quality control, and I want— and she had gone through, I think, Maybe Six Sigma, Lean Processing. 3M, A3, A3 is the one I'm interested in. And again, just to look at the application of how to be better and more efficient and applying it to healthcare. Again, I just think it's, I think it's, it can be applied to anything, but I think it's fascinating. And again, I think that program is just a neat way for You know, if anybody's listening who hasn't done it, I'd encourage them to reach out to your office because it is— if you want to know what's going on, you'll find out.

Well, and as I say, especially with young children, the most valuable number in my phone book is, um, Dr. Gilpin right now with, you know, pediatric.

Absolutely, no doubt, especially with two ballplayers, for sure.

Um, you know, it's always good to have someone at the hospital that you can call when you have a need, whether it's scheduling an appointment. It can be a very, you know, I hate to say difficult system to maneuver, but, you know, we're always here to help anyone that needs help on that. So absolutely.

Well, it makes a big difference. Talk to me a little bit about— you mentioned your team, so I know we're kind of going back and forth, but things pop into my brain. You've got a really seasoned team. Y'all have been together for a long time.

Yep, so I think Davis has been there the longest, and she's been there I think 25 years, and she heads up all of our Children's Miracle Network, Children's Hospital fundraising, does a phenomenal job. Um, Kendra does all of our events. She has been there about 20-something years. And then, um, downstairs have a great finance team. Margie leads our finance team, and she's been there about 17 or 18 years. And then the rest of us have been there about a little less than 10 years. Right. But yeah, just a great team and continue to hopefully grow. You know, our grants, we do a lot of— we have two phenomenal grant writers that have been there, and that has been a huge effort as we continue to write grants for the hospital for some of these programs that wouldn't be there. Our Forensic Nurse Examiner Program, for patients that maybe have been abused and they come in the ED and they need to see a certified forensic nurse right then and there to get the evidence. And so those are grants and programs that wouldn't be there if the Foundation grant writers had not written those grants and worked with staff to get those programs started. So very proud of them. And then at the beach, I have two team members and they're fairly new, about 3 years, but that team's continuing to grow. And, um, I don't know if you've been to the beach lately at the Cherry Grove.

I have a house in Cherry Grove.

Oh, okay.

I didn't realize that.

And so we're going into—

I picked it because it was near Seacoast.

Of course.

Thank you. Thank you.

We appreciate it.

Absolutely.

But, um, they are— we are about to, um, build a comprehensive cancer center down there for those patients. So it's very beneficial for those patients, obviously, for all the services to be be under one roof. And so that will be at Seacoast coming up. So we'll be working on a capital campaign for that down there. And so it's going to be amazing for what's to come at the beach area.

Sure. Well, I've got to ask because they didn't just interview you when they were— I mean, this was an extensive search. It wasn't a, hey, great, Jill's going to retire Elizabeth. I mean, it was no gimme. No, it was definitely not. Um, you know, why do you feel like they picked you?

You know, I think one of the biggest things is relationships, um, and being here. And, you know, I love Donna saying local people caring for local people, and she stays true to that even when hiring her people. Um, yeah, I might not have had as much experience as the other candidates and things, but, you know, our work all comes down from genuine I think that's the thing too, genuine relationships and be able to have these honest conversations with our donors, our friends, patients. But I definitely think it was the relationship part. And obviously I've got a good, I'm from Florence, I have a lot of relationships, but I'm one of those people too that will just walk in a room and, "Hey, I'm Elizabeth Jones." You know? Sure. "How are you? Tell me about yourself." I don't meet a stranger and as my husband likes to say, "All right, you need to go tell your goodbyes because it takes you 30 minutes to tell your goodbyes." Start the process. Start the process now. And so, but I love people. I love being around people. I love gathering around. I love that. That makes me feel whole, so to speak. Sure. Being around like-minded individuals and learning about others.

Yeah, well, I— if you asked me why they picked you, that would have been my answer too. So I just think that, again, going back to— and I hope you like the job because they don't let you retire from McLeod, as Jill can attest. There haven't been many, uh, 3 or 4. Yeah, so, um, but, but also, again, you, you look at one of the things I like about the organization as a whole is literally the joke among administrators, at least, is they don't let you retire from McLeod. You become PRN.

You bleed teal is what we say.

I think it's brilliant. I'm just a— again, if you look at just from an HR perspective, right, as somebody who's— one of my jobs is developing talent over years and years. Is you look at the investment that you put into team members. It's the greatest investment on any P&L that you make on an annual basis. And the notion that a lot of companies let then that great asset walk out the door after X number of years without keeping some sort of relationship with them, again, it just doesn't make sense. I think that the hospital has been particularly good over the years and now obviously the foundation with, uh, with Jill still doing some PRN work. I think it's absolutely brilliant because you keep, like you said, that institutional knowledge, that intellectual capital. You keep access to that for as long as, as the relation— and again, you keep the relationships there. So, um, doing a lot of things right. So yeah, absolutely.

So I always want It won't be easy, but we'll get it right.

Yeah, sooner or later, right? I mean, I, you know, a lot of it is, again, like you said, relationships and passion for the work means that eventually you do get it right because you keep working at it until it is.

I think, you know, I always tell people, I said, you know, my job is to help match people with their philanthropic passions. This is what we have to offer. Offer at the hospital. And what better way— because we never know when we're going to need healthcare— but what better way to be able to help those in need in your own community, your neighbors, your church members, your friends at the ball field.

Sure.

When there's a time of need.

There's no doubt. I love it. No doubt. So Elizabeth, last question. Oh gosh. Yeah, well, again, it wouldn't be fun if I didn't have at least two prepared. Fair questions. If you could, um, if you could pick a fictional character— it can be somebody from a book or a movie, comic book character— had a couple of people choose somebody from the Bible, um, which technically not fictional, right? I mean, but anyway, somebody other than you that you relate to. If you could pick somebody that you feel like represents Elizabeth Jones, who would it be and why?

I'm just trying to think. You know, it's funny, my husband says, "You're Mary Poppins," because I'm one of these people in the morning times when I just get up, I'm go, I've got an agenda, I want to get myself done, I'm a to-doer, and I want to please, and I want to be the best at what I can be at everything, and have high standards and expectations. But I also like to relax and chill. And I always, you know, it's funny, my parents always said, and my whole family jokes about this, that I'm like, it's all gonna work out. Like, I try not to stress about the big things because I'm like, it's gonna be fine. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. It's gonna work out. But I do like a process and a plan and, you know, an agenda. I don't know, my husband always says, you're Mary Poppins, just wake up, you have so much energy, you're just on the go. And I am. I try to just stay happy and positive because, I mean, that's what gets you— you know, we all have days, don't get me wrong. Sure. But, um, I just, I just, you know, always kind of have the mantra that it's all going to be great and it's going to— this is what God's plan is and this is why we're here. And you have to live every day to the foolish. You know, I was reading, um, an obituary recently, and we were taught— it was actually a previous employee, a nurse at McLeod, and, um, she had been battling cancer for years. And they said, take the trip, take the day off, take, you know, take care of you, but don't live with any regrets. And so, of course, as I was crying by the end of this, but, you know, sometimes we get really bogged down and our work or, um, different sta— you know, we all go through different stages of life. But like you said, our children are only young once, and you just really have to reflect. And you know what, life's too short.

Amen.

Yeah, you just have to live it to the fullest. And you know, this is what God's asked me to do for the next 10 or 15 years, then this is what I'm going to do. And, um, and I think we all know when it's our— I hate to say our time, but time to move on to a different stage in life. Um, but yeah, I would just say live life to the fullest and just don't take it for granted. Every day is a gift.

No. Well, I was talking to somebody right, right before you and I started, and that was the— you get to a point in your life where, uh, you'll have time to— and this sounds weird from somebody that does what I do for a living, there'll come a time when there's an easier ability to save, when some of the other responsibilities and priorities lessen, and there'll be a season for that. But in this particular case, this person was thinking about moving, and it's like, then move. If you think you want to be somewhere, go be somewhere different and figure it out, because cause, you know, you mentioned earlier the draft, and I was going to make a Facebook post about it yesterday, but I've quit. I don't post on Facebook very much anymore, but I cried at the beginning of the draft last night. I've never done that in 47 years. When they had those young men, you may not have watched the draft.

We went on a date night and I made him go to The Chorus Line, which was great. And he goes, I cannot believe you're making me miss the draft. I said, well, you said let's go on a date night. That's right. I didn't know the draft was coming.

You'll find out. Well, you can always go back and look at ESPN. And I only watched the first 2 picks, but, um, but beforehand they brought out, um, or they talked about the 3 players that had been killed in the mass shooting at the University of Virginia, and they drafted them into the NFL because that had been their dream. You know, all these kids wanted to, dreamed of being drafted and playing in the NFL. And, and, um, the commissioner says, well, tonight we can at least make one of those dreams come true. And they, and, and here I am, I'm driving down, uh, Second Loop Road because I'm, I've got it on the radio and I'm just bawling. And, and it's because you just never know. And so you better make the most of it while you have it. Again, those young people were in their teens and 20s. Their family members are my age. I've got kids that age, and you just never know. So live it every day.

You do.

That's what I say.

Well, it's funny, the other day Lucas said, my youngest said, "Can we please go get a donut before school?" And of course we're like rushing around, you know that. An hour to get everybody dressed. And I was like, you know what, I haven't been home in 2 days because I've been out of town working. I was like, absolutely, I'll be late to my meeting to go get you a donut because you just never— you know, it's the simple things like that.

No doubt.

Remember getting to go into the Krispy Kreme to pick out the donut.

And there'll be a time they won't ask. I just— I did spring break in London and Paris with my 10th grader because he asked. He's like, hey, would you go on this trip with me. It's like, absolutely, you know, I'll work the rest of it out. We went earlier this year. I think he misses his brothers. They've all like either moved out and gotten their own place or gone off to college. But he asked me to go on the 10th grade field trip to Washington. It's like, absolutely, yeah, back to back. It's like, God, the last thing I want, you know, pack a suitcase again. But it's been amazing. And we didn't do anything but eat gelato And say, again, I've gone through a health journey here in the last—

you look great.

Well, thank you, I appreciate that. Um, you know, 18 months or so. And a big part of that was just being— from now on, I say yes. If Trish says, hey, do you want to hike a mountain? Yep. I mean, I, you know, just to be able to say yes to things. And so I wholeheartedly agree with you. Um, I think that you can trust in the process. You can, you can believe that God has a plan, and you can still get up every day and figure out how you're going to help, or at least to the extent that you can't make the most of it, you know, that plan and process. So, um, Elizabeth, I really enjoyed it.

Thanks for taking time with me. This is great. Um, I like doing this.

We'll do it again.

That was great.