Jumana Swindler - Vice President, Communications at McLeod Health

This is Coffee with Cool People. I'm Chip Munn, and today I'm having coffee with Jemana Swindler. Jemana, thanks for spending some time with me.

Well, thank you. It's been a pleasure to be able to catch up with you, Chip. You know, you're a face and a voice from the past, and I love seeing your thinner voice now and thinner face, and we're off to a great new start.

Well, thank you. I appreciate it. You know, it's interesting how Thankfully, I'm hoping that my voice doesn't change too much, but the rest of me sure has. You know, somebody asked me recently where the rest of me went, and I don't know, but I hope he stays there. So that's kind of been my philosophy on that.

Well, the best part of you stayed from our conversation before we started.

How about that? Hey, I'll take it. You know, I always take good news and compliments. That's kind of the way that my life works these days. So, Jovanna, as I told you, and you may have heard on the podcast before, this is just a passion project for me because it's easy to run around town, especially this time of year, getting close to Christmas, and wave and see people and, you know, feel like you know 'em. But you could have, like our relationship, have known each other for going on, you know, 25 years and never have had any kind of depth sometimes to conversation. So I like to start by just asking, who is Jumanis Wendler?

Well, that's a good question. Jumanis Wendler is not just one person. I'm involved in multiple facets of the community and my family's life. I believe that my faith, my family, and my— and my job are sort of the trinity by which, you know, I occupy my thoughts and my talents. I am going on, Chip, my 34th year at McLeod Health. It's really hard to believe. I actually, though Chip started off in the journalism field, I graduated from Sewanee. That's still a passion for me. Still have my Sewanee friends on a daily basis and Sewanee buddies in the community, but came back home to Flowtown and the PD and started off in the newspaper field. In those days, it was a bit different. In fact, I worked with your wife in the early days when she was in the— I was in the print and she was in the television media. And so we bump in either late or help each other carry, you know, photography equipment or videography equipment. And we always tried to be the first. I think there was sort of this cat-like What's she got that I don't have? So I hope she listens in on that and remembers those days. But so I was fortunate enough to move to a career in, at the hospital and am now serving as the Vice President of Communications, Public Relations and Marketing, and have done that for a number of years and have been so thankful for leadership that allowed me to go down this path and, and go through a variety of changes. I worked under 3 presidents. One was Bruce Barrigan and then moved to Rob Colonis, and now I'm working for a dear friend and inspirational leader in the community, and that would be Donna Isgut, who has given me time to spend with you this morning.

So, um, well, thank you, Donna, if you're listening. We definitely, uh, we definitely appreciate that, especially with all that the hospital's got going on.

Yeah, we've got— we're going through some major, uh, transitions that'll make life better for patients and, and staff as we go to a whole new, uh, EMR is what we call it. Sure. But, um, I wanted to also say part of my life is my passion. You said, "This is your passion." My passion is theater. I've done theater for almost 50 years. I'm really giving away my age now, but spent a lot of time there, served on the board in leadership roles and directing and acting. I, you know, if you ask me who Jemima is, it's a person who just doesn't want to sit still. I love people. I love being around people. I guess I'm an extreme E when it comes to that. I'm energized in groups. I'm energized both by the concept of doing a project and seeing the tangible results. I love this community. Community. While I have a little place on the coast, where I call home is the PD and the people here. I've been very blessed. I've been very blessed to have been nurtured on this, this path. I don't know what you define success, but to me the definition of success is having a very strong, authentic, kollektiv collection of friends and people interactions. And so I've been nurtured along the way, continue to be nurtured. At this point in my life, I look at mentoring others, sharing experiences, you know, during my next decade. I know that You know, I want to leave a legacy of learning to others. I want to nurture, using that same word, my grandchildren to love life and each other. I mean, there's a lot of chaos out there, and the only way we're going to get through what's overwhelming all of us is to do it hand in hand and love each other through it and counsel each other through it and work together. So that's, I guess, who I am and who I'm continuing to develop into being.

For sure.

Well, you don't ever arrive.

You do not. No, definitely a work in progress for all of us. And I think that— I forget who said it, but somebody said something to the extent that you talk about not wanting to sit still. I think that, again, I don't remember who said it, but somebody, one of the smart people said, hell would be to die and get to meet the person that you were intended to be or that you could have been. And I think that, yeah, that's been a big, big driver for me. I've learned, I don't know, in the last handful of years about things like I am statements, and one of mine is, uh, I am my children's, my boys' life coach. And I think that's been a big part for me when you talk about nurturing and leaving the legacy of learning. I think that that resonates very true with me. I'm curious, so you're from, I mean, from Florence. You talked about Sewanee, but I mean, you came back home.

Well, I'm I'm actually from Beirut, Lebanon. My family immigrated here when I was 4. There was a very strong Lebanese community here, international community, a very welcoming international community. I think, I think that's what's so attractive about this part of the region. There may be antagonism among groups in the world, but there's certainly is not in, in this community. It became home for my grandparents, and they had a commitment. And then my father moved to this country when I was very, very young and brought a sense of patriotism in our life. We love America, we love our community, and we love serving our community. And so I am part of an international community and a naturalized American citizen. So I studied to be an American, you know, in order to be here.

By choice.

By choice. And so the PD has always literally been my center of home, but I think that there is, there is an opportunity for even more inclusion in this area as the rumblings of the world continue, but by far this was a safe place. It was a good place. It was, and I believe as we see international business businesses come into the PD, they see it as well. I mean, big announcement, economic development announcement yesterday. So the welcome mat that shows the PD in South Carolina obviously is real.

For sure. Yeah, I mean, there's no question that, again, I'm like you, kind of the rumblings of the outside world is one thing, but one of the things, I have a good friend who I know will listen to this because he He lives in Atlanta but listens to all of these and had been here. We went to college together and he said, "You know, I don't know that it's intended to this, but I listen to all of these and it makes me want to move to Florence." And again, it never has been my intent, but I do think that particularly for the people I choose to spend time with, it certainly is a resounding theme that that we do. We live in a great place with awesome people, and it's easy to want to— it's interesting for me, my oldest son came back, graduated Clemson, came back to work with us, and I was, I was surprised. I wasn't sure, you know, it goes— for me, it says a lot not only about the people but also the, the progress of Florence that, you know, for a long time it was hard to get a or it seemed hard to get a 20-something to want to move back to Florence, but it was, it was his preference to come back here. So it's been, um, same here.

My son graduated from Clemson and I thought for sure he'd be in the upstate, um, you know, I always wondered when I didn't hear from him, uh-oh, is he looking for housing, is he looking, and he really chose to come back here with because he considered it home too. And I think that is, if I may, I feel like I just jumped right in, I'm seeing more of that. I'm seeing more of the, we don't need to go far and wide. While some people may choose to do that for a couple of years just to get the experience of seeing new things, I think a lot of families are having their children, grandchildren sort of return to the village. You know, there's, and I believe it's because of, you know, it is safe. It is home and it, you know, for better or worse, home is where the heart is.

Amen. Well, and again, it's a good place to be. I was at the announcement yesterday and one of the things that somebody joked about was it being an hour from the beach. And as somebody who has a place down on the coast myself, it's really nice. It's also nice not to live there every day. So it is a— it's nice to be able to take off on Friday, or for me, honestly, on a Saturday morning and just go for the day. It's nice to be able to do that, but it's also Again, just from a quality of life standpoint, every day going to work and, and again, being able to be somewhere like this and see people you know. And, you know, it's, it's always been great for me being from lower Florence County. It's always been just a wonderful place as far as I'm concerned. I'm curious, how did you decide originally to be in journalism? That's a— 'cause I've heard Trisha's story, but it's very different to be in TV versus print.

Well, I really, I had a passion and still do for the written word. I think words matter. I think in the years that I started, again, I'm gonna relate to strong mentors who were in my life. Former publishers of the newspaper, former editors, one of which who had a huge influence in my life was Tom Anderson, and I, you know, I wanted to be able to make a difference with the written word. You know, everybody has dreams of sitting and writing that Great American Novel, but sometimes you could make a difference just by influencing folks through the provision of news or education. And so I chose to go one day to the newspaper office, and the publisher there was Tennie Griffin, and Tennie Griffin, the late Tennie Griffin, was huge. He was like 6'5". He was a burly man, and he looked at me with the glasses on his nose, and he says, "And what makes you think you can be a journalist?" And I said, "Well, I care about people, and I care about the written word." I'd like to blend them together. And he said, well, I don't really have anybody, any room on staff now, but come back later. I said, well, Mr. Griffin, I'll work for you for free until you decide that you want me. He said, kind of gave me that cross-eyed look you just gave me, and I said, it won't take long. I said, You're gonna really like what I do. He said, alright, go out there and do it. And so I wrote a couple of pieces for him, and I brought the second piece in, and he said, go upstairs, you're hired. How about that? And I mean, it's kind of a Hallmark movie kind of story, but it worked, and I demonstrated that I could add value. As your wife Trish will tell you, it may have been adding value, but we certainly, it wasn't adding to our pocketbooks very much. They are undervalued financially on any team, but those were exciting times. I spent less than a decade there. I was involved in one of my stories, and I worked for USA Today as a stringer, was when the day the Challenger blew up. And I got to cover all of the Lake City activities with, you know, all that transpired there with Ron McNair having been on board. And And I don't know if you recall this, but a long time ago when I was there, 40 years ago, we had a local gal who was seeking the region's first heart transplant. And she was trying to raise money in order to get the heart transplant at Johns Hopkins. And they had a meeting, the JCs at the time, the, you know, the different folks who wanted to help. And my publisher said, "Go at least find out what's going on at that meeting." And when I went, I just was taken by the story of the young mom, 2 children, she owned a balloon shop, and her name was Ann Poston. I don't know if anybody remembers that, but anyway, I went back and said, Mr. Griffin, we got to help, and we, we brainstormed, and he said, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna do our first special edition since World War II. We put out a special edition all about Ann Poston, kind of screamed it from the corners and did, and fundraised along with other folks in the community and raised about $100,000 even back then. And she got to go and get her new heart for the region's first, first uh, heart transplant at the time, and which was new medicine, which was, you know, a big deal.

Still pretty incredible, by the way.

Still incredible. And, and so, um, and I got to fly up there, and I was the first person besides her husband to see her come out. And so, you know, I dictated the story, and those, you know, I you know, we reported back to the community that they had saved a life. And those were the kinds of features that were incredible, you know, stories to tell. So that was the passion. I'm sure maybe Trish can remember that, but then as the As McLeod was growing, they reached out to me and I transitioned to McLeod, and I'm still trying to tell the story and help people. And the neat part is that you can reach people sincerely in things that you're doing now with this podcast. The written word and just being authentic, just being truthful. And so I certainly consider it a privilege to have been asked to be on your program.

Well, I think that, you know, one of the words that you've used a handful of times and one that has, that really resonates with me is authentic and authenticity. It is. We can all tell when people are faking it, right? And I think that anymore it is just such a— it's a breath of fresh air for me to run into people who just are who they are. There's no pretense, there's no worrying about, you know, because there is plenty of division and side picking and those kinds of things, which I think for some people it can make it hard to just be who you are and believe what you believe. And, um, yeah, that's just a— I think when it comes to sharing and connecting with people or telling stories, which I think is a lot of, um, what you still do is telling the story, authenticity matters an awful lot. Because what is that old saying? People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I think that, again, they want to know it's really you. And if you're telling them something, you know what I'm saying, it's coming from the heart. And I'm sure that the heart transplant didn't— and being able to be a part of that, number one, what an amazing— talking about leaving a legacy, what an amazing legacy to get to to leave, just that is enough. But it had to be something that was compelling when they asked you to come and tell the story of McLeod. What's it been like? Because you've been there now, you've been involved longer than I have. What's it been like to see the hospital grow and to get to tell that story? Because it's been an evolving one for sure.

Well, you know, yeah, that's the key phrase, evolution. You know, you never, you never arrive, but you're along the way. I'm not going to say there haven't been times that, that really have been extremely challenging. But I've been encouraged by the nature of the physicians, the leadership team, the people who stay day in and day out to care for their fellow man. You know, the hospital is growing. We're 7 hospitals, 90, you know, practices, facilities all around. And the challenges do continue, but the real work is the meaningful work that people do day by day. It's not bricks and mortar. It's not the, "Hey, we have a new building over here." It is the caregivers that sacrifice I saw that sacrifice. I think the most influential time for me was during COVID It changed lives. I mean, these people were really on the battlefront.

No question.

And it was a scary time. It was a time when families were scared when their caregivers came home. You know, they, you know, we didn't know what we didn't know 3 years ago. And now, and now we're looking back and saying, um, this is what we learned. We learned that we could overcome fear, that we could, you know, dig in and do what's right. And, um, so I I think just like we said before, your learning never stops, and that's what I've been most impressed with our organization. You know, Donna says something to us frequently, and she says, you know, we want to be better tomorrow than we were today. We want to be better next week than we are this week. And she learned that from her predecessors, which were Rob Colonis, an incredible leader, and Bruce Barrigan. The commitment to improve, the commitment to change, the commitment to look at something and say, what can we do better? That takes courage. And what I have seen at McLeod is the banner of courage, not just, you know, buildings or, you know, opulence or new carpet or new floor, but, you know, physicians who want to try the next best thing and staff who say, you know, maybe we can learn this new EPIC system because it's better for everybody. So, you know, that may sound simple-minded to some people, but what I've been impressed with for the 3.5 decades is the courage.

Well, and it does, it takes a lot. It's— I've always been, you know, going back to when I was asked to be involved with with the hospital through the foundation, I remember, you know, so my oldest is a little over 23, and I remember with all 3 of my boys, their mom being on bed rest and spending, I think with Carson, weeks, if not a month, you know, roughly a month in the hospital, and I would, I would sleep up there most of the time with her. And the, you know, back then it was Adams-O'Dell Davidson-Lusk and Chandler, now Advanced Women's Care. And I remember for all three of them, but particularly it was most surprising with Carson the first time, every night, middle of the night, somebody's coming in there And it always struck me as interesting, sometimes the outside opinion, back then especially, of what a physician's life was like versus what I was seeing sleeping in the hospital. You know what I mean? Like, they're always there. It's kind of like, if it's, you know, 1:30 in the morning and you're up here, who's at home with your family? And it really— It struck me the commitment and the service that I think, again, back then, I think everybody got to see it during COVID because they finally, not that nobody ever did, but I mean, it really shined a bright light on everybody in healthcare during that period of time. I had somebody, we've talked recently about tough times with things going on in the economy. I'm a big believer in perspective. And one of the things that I like to remind people of is 3 years ago, we were spraying our mail down and leaving it on the porch for a couple of days before it came in the house. I mean, when you start talking about things being tough and uncertain and things like that, again, there have been plenty of times in our country and in Florence when things have been tough. But that's next level adjustment and figuring things out and being uncertain when you have to take your mail and Lysol it or your grocery. I mean, it's easy having lived through that. I think we have a tendency to forget things like that. Like, I don't want to think anymore about that. But when you do, you realize that. And again, I can remember I remember in particular Brian Blaker on Facebook talking about what was going on at the hospital from the perspective of a physician versus, you know, kind of the perspective that may have been in the news at the time. And it was, again, it's just, I think it's really gratifying. It would have to be if I were in your shoes to be responsible for, and it's a big responsibility, to find ways to tell those stories to a community who, uh, yeah, again, who doesn't have any way of understanding a lot of times anything other than the bricks and mortar or the, yeah, whatever the new story is. And I've always been struck just by how much commitment it takes for anybody in that field Yord?

Well, COVID did— COVID taught us to be agile, to be able to move, to be creative. COVID taught us all, I think, to deal with less and not want more. We're seeing, you know, you're a market person, you're seeing more people downsize, not so much because of the economy, but we learned we really didn't need all that. I thought what was interesting during COVID too, on a personal front, was I started seeing so many families together working in their yards. Their yards look better than they've ever looked. That's right. Families who stayed home.

Well, and you realized you had neighbors you didn't know you had. Yeah, because everybody actually stayed home and walked around the neighborhood.

I mean, it wasn't all shiny and good. We, we lost many loved ones. We know that it, you know, the exertion was tremendous, but we also, you know, for those of us who try to look at silver lining, the silver lining was, boy, weren't there some, some good lessons in this to make us more resilient.

No question, no question. Well, and it certainly did that. And, and I'm one who is, you know, I can be accused of being overly optimistic, but I had a counselor, David Kahn, actually tell me one time, you know, if you bought the ticket and rode the ride, wear the t-shirt. And I'm a big believer we had to ride the ride, we ought to take the lesson from it. And I think that that's, again, it's been one of those things that it was, it was difficult and terrible and all of those things,, but for those of us who are fortunate enough to still be around, might as well take something out of it that, that makes kind of the rest of, of life better. You mentioned, Jomana, mentoring and sharing and passing it on. You've got a great team there. One of the things I've always been impressed with the hospital about in general is the longevity of most of members. What's it been like to grow up a team or a department inside of a large organization and bring other people along for the ride?

It's been both ways. The bringing of the team together, I think I'm more of the air traffic controller, but the team has put me together. Because they've taught me so much, you know. I continuously learn from them. We have new young people that I call the Energizer Bunnies that are way ahead of me, you know, technologically. You know, they could come in here and put together a podcast and probably give you graphics in 2 minutes.

Feel free to pass on their information. I'd love to meet those folks.

But, you know, it's been a give and take. I have been thankful because the shared interest of the team members has been that they want to do the best they can. They want to be, we call it at the elbow support for both our people internally and externally. That's really the hardest part of our job is while we're marketing, a lot of our marketing is to communicate to our own ambassadors. And so, you know, the team's, the bandwidth doesn't really increase, but the team skill set has to, and they're focus has to. So we learn each day how to prioritize, how to work with what we've got. And all I can say, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, is we've been blessed. We've been blessed with good people all around at McLeod, and that includes, you know, a division that I help support. Sometimes you feel like you're in the boat and you're acting as the rudder, and sometimes you need the stronger winds. I depend on, you know, the leadership team each and every day. And again, I hate to keep throwing her in, but, you know, Donna's vision to get us through some of these challenges. So we're very, very fortunate that she's been extremely transparent of, you know, the challenges that we have, some difficulties that we're in. You know, the economy's not getting better right now, but we just have to work together and be better together.

Amen.

And that's her mantra. And that was always Rob's mantra, you know, so.

Well, I'm definitely a believer in better together. I think it's an African proverb, I think is where I saw it, but it says, "If you want to go fast, go alone, and if you want to go far, go together." And I don't think there's any question about that. Jamana, before I get to the final question, I've got one that that struck me. You've done a lot of things. You've had a full life so far. I'm curious whether it's personal or professional. What would you say you're most proud of?

My son. I'm proud of a son. I'm proud of a family. He's, he's come back. I'm, I'm proud of a relationship with his precious wife. And continued relationships with my grandchildren. So it's not a work thing. I think I'm just proud of my family. I'm proud of— you've talked about my brother Steve, my sister Reema, my dad. You know, we've lived without, you know, our mom since 1983. But we've been stronger together. So I am extremely blessed by a family committed to one another. We don't work in silos. We turn to each other in need, and then we try hard to celebrate. And so I'm very thankful for that, and that's what I'm most proud of.

I think that's awesome. Yeah, Steve, coached my youngest in baseball. He and Will were on the same team back, God, this would have been, had to have been, I don't know, 9 years ago or so. And I can remember your dad always being there, you know, at Maple Park. And so the apple certainly doesn't fall far from the tree as far as your commitment to family. It's obvious you got a, you had a great example in him. So last question, and it's one of my favorites. Uh-oh, it looks like a zinger. Yeah, so if— I think that we can learn a lot about a person by who they identify with, and so I'm curious for you, if you could pick a fictional character, it could be a superhero, somebody from a book or a play as a thespian, that you feel like best represents Jemima Swindler, who would it be and why?

That's a really interesting question, and if I may, I will select a character in a play. It's interesting, I did not play this character, so let me preface it by saying that. I was privileged to be a part of the cast of Steel Magnolias, one of my favorite shows in all of history. And Steel Magnolias has very strong females in them. I played Weezer, which I never felt like I was a weezer. You know, cranky and, you know, an odd duck. Who did that casting? And so, actually, it was directed by Darby Holley and Tippy Harwell. But my favorite character in that show is the character of Clary, and she's the one that has a line in there that says, "I love you more than my luggage." She— the reason I loved her character and is because she met people where they were. She loved them, and she, you know, she supported the group. Sometimes she was the lead in the group, and sometimes she was just sort of the support band in the back. And I loved her character the most. I did not get picked for that character, but I'd like to think it was because I wasn't typecast for Clary.

Right. That would have been too easy.

Yeah, I wasn't typecast for— you may want to tell your wife that— I wasn't— I hope I'm not a weasel, but I guess sometimes I can be cantankerous. But Clary in Steel Magnolias, still one of my favorite, some of the best lines ever delivered, uh, were from her.

I love you more than my luggage. Yeah. Well, there's a lot to be said for meeting people where they are, and honestly, and also being willing to kind of get in where you fit in, whether that is, uh, needing to be up front and taking the lead, uh, or willing to be a supporting, you know, cast member. And I think that, again, from Everything I've ever seen, that certainly is indicative of your life. I think that definitely seems to fit. Somebody who doesn't mind getting out and telling the story, but also who spends a large part of her day finding other people's stories and making sure that people get to hear them. So, Jemana, thank you for spending some time with me. I really enjoyed it.

Well, great to reconnect with you, and I do love you, Chip Munn. I'm really proud of you.

Well, I appreciate it. I love you too, and it's good to be reconnected.

Yep.