Mike Miller - President - Greater Florence Chamber of Commerce

I'm Chip Munn and this is Coffee with Cool People, and today I am having coffee with Mike Miller, the president of the Greater Florence Chamber of Commerce. Mike, thanks for spending time.

Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Absolutely. So first question I always ask, um, because it kind of gets the ball rolling, is sure, who is Mike Miller?

Oh gee, sometimes I wonder. My wife wonders too, but, uh, I don't know. I guess I'm a product of a lot of things as we grow I guess it would start with family and so forth. I think I was very blessed and fortunate to have been raised how I was with my parents and, uh, instilled a lot of things in me. And I'm hoping that somewhere down the road I was able to pass some of those on to my kids and maybe the grandchildren. But, uh, yeah, I, I guess I'm, I'm, I'm a product of what I said I wasn't going to do in life, which was be in the newspaper business. My dad was in the newspaper business, and I said, I will never do that. And of course, that's where I ended up for more than 34, 35 years. And I said I'd never play golf. And all the things that I thought took away from my childhood with my dad always being gone, I said I wasn't going to do. And of course, I've ended up doing both of those things and, and, and loved it. But I think I've been formulated by the business I was in, you know, and I think it's kind of carved me into a certain niche in life. And I really enjoyed that. But yeah, I guess that's, I kind of been formed around the media business forming relationships, and, uh, I've enjoyed that. Unfortunately, through it all, my wife's helped steer me through some pretty difficult times, uh, socially and otherwise. So I think a lot of people have had influence on who I am today.

Yeah, I— so, um, tell me a little bit, where'd you grow up? Tell me about you, because you mentioned your parents, and tell me a little bit about growing up and your family.

Right. I was born in York, Pennsylvania. My dad, again, was in the newspaper business and it had offered him an opportunity to move at times. And back then there was a lot of that within the industry. But there were 7 of us in the family. My mom and dad had 7 children. I'm the oldest. Certain inherent responsibilities come along with that. You know, but, uh, you know, that was kind of, uh, where it all started. We weren't there all that long, and we ended up, uh, moving to Ohio. And, uh, from there is where my newspaper career started, uh, while I was in college at Indiana, part-time in the summer. Next thing you know, I thought, you know, I really like this. I like the newspaper business. I like the people. I like having the interaction every day and building that new product. It was just— it was fascinating to me. So after 2 years of college, I just went full-time, originally working for my dad, and I found out that it's not a good place, not a good place to launch. So I took the opportunity to transferred to a little town in Kansas and actually started dating at the exact same time, started dating my wife who was on the sales staff with me in New Albany. So we did a lot of commuting for a while before we got married, and that's where the whole thing transpired. And we moved from Atchison, Kansas to Carthage, Missouri, Dothan, Alabama. Spent a lot of time in Dothan. We were told in Dothan we weren't going to be able to have children, so It was the opportunity to take advantage of a career, uh, without worrying about the children. Uh, so we took the next move, which was, uh, to Canton, Ohio, of all places. At 27 years old, I'm faced trying to run a sales and marketing department of a newspaper with 54 employees, all of which were older than me. So it was a little bit of a challenge, you know, the things that would come along with that. But again, you know, uh, being blessed, with a lot of opportunities, and my wife made it a whole lot easier because she's very adaptable and she actually loves meeting new people. I think you know her.

She does. That is absolutely a gift of hers.

Yeah, so, but that's where we decided we'd adopt, and we adopted, and this happens a lot, 3 months later we find out we have another child on the way. So, all 3 of our children were born in Canton, and, uh, we moved from there to Pennsylvania, all with the same company, by the way. So this was kind of, uh, it was— I was working in the newspaper business and with a family in the business. I mean, we were all pretty close. It was a smaller company at the time, and Uh, so I went, transitioned through to Phoenix, Arizona, spent a lot of time out there, back down south, and ended up here in 1998, 1999 in Florence, South Carolina. Uh, that had various projects within the, the organization, spent a lot of time on the road. And that's the reason I ended up in Florence. It was just, uh, I was on the road for 2 years solving problems at problematic newspapers and different operations. And of course, after getting here, we just fell in love with the community. So when we call home a town, we call it Florence. And our kids prospered here, relationships prospered here, we've become very grounded here. And while later on in 2007 I took an opportunity to get to Winston-Salem and run the newspaper and the publishing companies that they had up there. We really did miss Florence. And to be honest, we probably were down here 3 or 4 weekends a month anyway. So we enjoyed Winston. And somehow or another, I found my way back after 38 years in the media business saying in 2010, '11, and '12, this is ridiculous. Very, very tough time in all media. I just threw up my hands and ended up back here and never looked back. I mean, this has been wonderful to, you know, continue to foster the relationships I've had now for going on 22, 23 years.

So I want to ask you, you mentioned going through the adoption process and then finding out you were expecting. So did you, did you adopt and have the baby? So, and was your first a baby? Or so did you have two babies at one time?

Yeah, no, actually, uh, well, it gets a little more interesting. My wife is adopted, so there was some, uh, sensitive areas there. She had for a long time could not locate her biological family, and that was important to her. It was a struggle for the first 20 years, but When we had the opportunity to adopt a small— she was 2 weeks old— we went for it. It was just things fell into place. It's just sometimes in life things fall into place. You can call them miracles, you can call them whatever, but you know, it's again, it's one of those blessings. And sure enough, we brought her home and a couple months later Kevin calls me at the office and says, you're not going to believe this. And I said, you're right. But sure enough, a few months later, we have our second daughter. All of them are daughters. And the doctor, of course, told us the same thing, which is it's never going to happen again. Sure. 5 years later, it happened again.

Yeah.

And so we end up with 3 daughters and been wonderful.

Well, it's interesting because— and you wouldn't have any way to know this, but after my oldest was born, somewhere in the process, we were told that it was kind of a fluke, like we weren't going to have any more kids. And at the time, had a minivan, you know, in my— I was, I'd have been, I don't know, 25 or so, already had a minivan, we were going to have a whole bunch of kids, and found out that, you know, again, according to the doctor, that wasn't going to happen. Started the private adoption process through an organization out in Texas and had had kind of— you, because in that process, I don't know how it was for you, you had to, you had to submit almost like the, the mom is gonna— they're gonna pick you. So it was almost like you had— anyway, we had done like that whole thing, had sent off the check for the adoption or whatever, and, and and sold the minivan because it's like, we're never going to have, you know, kind of that whole thing. And about 3 months into the— we had probably been— I had just mailed the check off, and like 2 weeks later, so we're 3 months into the process, and found out that we were— and of course then had 2 more. All mine are boys, but it was, um, it's, it's a God thing, man. That's just how you call it, whatever you want to. It's, uh, and it's been And again, after that, it was a— even after then, now then Hampton was born, the second one. It was kind of like, all right, well, I, you know, I don't know how that happened. And I'm thinking, well, it happened 2 times. I mean, yeah. So, um, that's interesting. Moved around in the news business and you, you talked about, I mean, what was it like? What was it like? Because it's, it's changed. Media's changed a lot. And then we'll get to the chamber because I want to talk about that because I think that's important. But You know, again, you spent a lot of time there and it's something that has changed a lot, particularly over the last decade. What was it like when it started? So when you first kind of got into it versus that, you know, 2011 and '12, I mean, I know it changed a lot, but what were the differences kind of from the inside?

Back in those days, not only was the newspaper business viewed differently in your community, you had a sense of responsibility and you really should live up to it. And that's, uh, something that I think, uh, is really missing today, uh, in, in, in all media, quite frankly. But back then, you had to take your— take it seriously. What you did mattered, and, uh, newspapers took what they did very, very seriously. And even though there were a few corporate-owned entities, media companies, they were still run, uh, somewhat like a family. Uh, you work hard, you do right, you get opportunity, and you move forward. They were very profitable at the time, so not a lot of emphasis was put on revenues per se, although there was— you had to keep the doors open.

Sure.

But the real focus on the newspaper side was journalism and the things you could do to help your communities prosper. And a lot of the money stayed within the community that you did make, right? As corporate ownerships continued to grow, uh, across the country, uh, you saw some of that diminish. You saw profitability become a little bit more important than it was previously. A lot of these now become publicly held companies, which puts even more pressure on the board or the company owning, whether they're— however they're managed. So the financial pressures changed everything, and there was a lot of room to play. Even with the television stations, we were competitive, but we weren't at each other's throats. They did their thing, we did ours, and that was just the way it was. And we had an opportunity to be respectful of the community, contribute to the community. And all those dynamics have changed over the years as profits started being the primary driver. And it's— and it went on for 20 years to the point now where it really is at a breaking point. And maybe not so much just for newspapers either.

I mean, sure, you look and you talk about, and we'll find a delicate way to put it, but the change in standards, I think we could call it. And as you know, my wife's a former journalist, have a tremendous amount of respect for professional journalists. But I think she would agree things have changed an awful lot. You almost can't help that right now because as a print medium, of course now you've got the internet and the digital component of that and anybody can get on the web and have a blog and start putting out whatever they want to and that complicates things because now you're, again, from what I understand of journalism, you're wanting to get things, You wanna be the person who broke it. I mean, you wanna be able to get it out sooner rather than later. It's obvious that they'll let anybody put up a podcast. So radio's in the same shape. YouTube and television. And so it's definitely been a change in landscape. And the other thing I think is interesting that you mentioned that I hadn't thought as much about is is the money being able to stay in the communities versus when it becomes a big corporate deal. And again, neither of us is knocking—

it is what it is.

All these businesses are doing what they've got to do to keep their shareholders or their lights on. But it's one of those things that as the industry has changed and as the revenue has changed, the only way to keep everything open is to cut expenses. And part of that is outsourcing and bringing in AP content, whereas there used to be more, more local stuff. And then the money leaves the community and it goes to the corporation to keep, yeah, all that stuff going on. And it was a big difference. But you're being, you're being here and you're coming back here. I mean, I'd have to think a big part of where you are now, because when you were in Winston, you wanted to come back, but you also got an opportunity to come back and re-engage some relationships that you already had. So I mean, I'm interested kind of how that came down. And equally, again, I think that that's a testament though to the work that you'd put in while you were here being active in the community with the paper.

Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, maybe go back a step or two. Try to address and answer what you had brought up here. Everything's cyclical. Everything goes through a cycle. Um, there are ways of looking at when you reach your peak, when you start to fall as a business. Uh, newspapers have had a long, long life, and but no matter what you do, no matter what industry you're in, whether you're in insurance or you're making widgets, you end up doing things to be successful that center on relationships. And whether you know it, recognize it, or even admit it, that's really the cornerstone for most any business being successful. It could be relationships with suppliers, it could be relationships with your customers, but that is the one thing that I learned in the media business was foster those relationships. And looking back, I did it probably by accident, but when I was here in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and when I left in 2007, I had gotten in great relationships with local businesses, leaders within the community. And you know what? I followed them all. They followed me and It went on for 7 or 8 years after I had been gone, and that's how I ended up back here. And that's what has helped me make the transition from the media business and working with the Chamber of Commerce. It's with those relationships. And those relationships are so clearly important. And I'll give you a great example of one. And you married her. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, I knew Trish back in the early years when she first started working for BTW, and she ended up working for the Chamber of Commerce. And by happenstance and through relationships, uh, we made a call on you. Yeah, I think it was for a fireworks program. That's right.

And that's true, fireworks happened. And whether the powers that be downtown wanted them to happen or whether they were the fireworks we were originally talking about, fireworks happened.

But you know, through relationships, things transpire and, uh, growth opportunities come about.

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I made a note that you said whether you're making widgets, selling insurance, or whatever, everything kind of comes down to relationships. And I think that really it's, at least from my standpoint, right, is the reason it does that, or the people who I think are successful, ultimately it does all come down to relationships. But the reason is, is because you can't fake that. You can't fake it forever. No, you can get through a sales meeting, you can get through a, a pitch, you can get through a widget-making session, you know, or having to meet with somebody to get something done. You can't fake an authentic relationship over the long term. And I think that's the— ultimately, the— when I talk to successful people, it all boils down to people and relationships, period. But it's because, again, maybe some survivor bias to some extent. Most of the people I talk to are relatively successful, and that's because they, yeah, they dive in and they believe in that. So you get a lot of exposure to— you're talking about making widgets and insurance— you get a lot of exposure to business, particularly small business, now in your role. What, what has that been like? So the transition from the paper into the chamber, what— number one, probably just to start off kind of with some what I'd call stable data. So we both are— for anybody who doesn't know, I mean, what is the chamber? What does it do?

Well, we're really kind of the lifeline or resource, major resource for business in the region, and particularly here in the Florence, Florence County area. We want to foster a great environment for people to do business. We want to watch legislation. Sometimes it's a matter of bringing people together. The word networking gets old, and the truth is, yeah, I'm tired of hearing it too. But when you get a group of small business people together, great things happen. I don't want to speak for some— I've got examples, but I hate to speak for them. But I can tell you Hope Health is a perfect example of how networking and working with other people and leaders give you an idea and what's been able to happen in that area. But there's plenty examples throughout this community, and the Chamber of Commerce tries to facilitate those types of arrangements and keep people abreast of what's going on, whether it's in Colombian legislation or whether it's things that are happening here locally. So that's really our focus. Also to create a great way of life here. I mean, that really is to be a part of a growing community, foster that. Those are the things that are important to us and to everybody that works at the Chamber of Commerce, and we try to live by that. What's best for the community? What can we do? How can we make a difference? How can we bring businesses together? How can we alert them this might not be a good thing further down the road. This may be the great opportunity for us. And you know, when we— you create that kind of an atmosphere within a community like Florence, bigger things happen. So when you have, uh, Reese Foods come to town or any other industry and look around, they look at the way of life, they look at certain aspects. Do we want to do business here? And those are the types of those are the things we feel responsible to help be a part of. And of course, we can't do it alone because we are a membership-driven organization. And so it's driven a lot by our members and our membership.

Yeah, I think that again, as I listen to you, one of the things, because I've had an opportunity to be part of the chamber board, Trish worked there, most, if not all of the team members there. Are really good friends of mine. And one of the things that I've always heard during my time in making calls for the chamber or being on the board was, I don't really want to go to a networking event, right? You know, but I think that probably important for me, what I heard while you were talking was you guys have created the network. The network is there. If I'm a business owner, right, it's important for me to to be involved and intentional into, rather than— because most of the people who are entrepreneurs especially, like, we're not used to sitting back and waiting on things to happen. And I would encourage people, you know, with all of the millions of listeners that I have, um, you know, your phone is probably going to light up. My thing is, if you want an opportunity, create it and ask for it. If there's somebody you want to meet— and again, correct me if I'm wrong. But if somebody wanted to try to foster a relation, you mentioned a, a Hope Health or somebody like that. If there was a, a partnership that would benefit them, being involved in the chamber can help because at some point you've kind of put some relationship equity into the chamber so that you can hopefully get those introductions, right? Kind of an ask for what you need rather than, I think there are a lot of folks who think that the concept is I'll join the chamber and they'll be worried all day every day about my particular business. It's not really kind of how— that's not how I've experienced.

That is absolutely true. And that, that's something that we do face where people believe I'm going to change, I'm going to join the Chamber of Commerce and then my— the doors will be flooded with people. And, and that's not how it works. It would never work that way. What we do is help you facilitate that But you've got to have the game plan, the business plan, and the ability to go out and to do and to be a true entrepreneur if you're that small of a business. But what we do is provide opportunities to be enlightened about business and just community, not just about business, but your community. That's who you're selling your goods and services to. So when we hold a membership luncheon or an Outlook luncheon or legislative breakfast, we'll have upwards of 550 business and civic community leaders attend those. And we may have a speaker, it may be the Secretary of Transportation or the Commerce Department, or it may be the governor, it may be the leadership at Boeing, or— but it should be things you should be interested in and you should be aware of. And many times it's updates on city and county We've had many great meetings over that, but you get 500 people in a room and some of the best parts of that gathering are the half an hour before the program starts. People mingle around and they talk to people that they have not seen. You get a little bit more interaction. A lot of information gets exchanged, although that's not the primary purpose, that is residual, and it's important to us that that happens as well. So those are the types of things we do.

And it's not just that, it's the, 'cause as you were talking, I was thinking about, and I don't remember the name off the top of my head, but it, the program that you guys do with high school students.

Oh, Junior Leadership.

Junior Leadership, Leadership Florence. The partnership that you guys have with, which I'm in the middle of now, which I'm really getting a lot out of, the fellows in education with the school, is all of the ambassadors program. I mean, all these things are things that it's not just about the, 'cause some people are uncomfortable, right? Before you got here, the chamber event was, some of the chamber events were almost, they reminded me a little bit of like science fairs where you'd put up like a thing about your business and you'd go stand there and that was kind of the networking event. For a lot of people, we're going into a room of 550 people, that can kind of freak you out. That's not for everybody. But I mean, we just rattled off a handful of small events that— oh yeah, the Ambassadors Program. You go out to the new— there are, I say, a handful. It could be two dozen for all I know at one point or the other, who they just meet up when somebody's here for the ribbon-cut. I mean, so there are— again, I guess my thing is there are a lot of ways to get involved if you really want to.

A lot of doors.

Well, relative to If you want to be out, and a lot of young folks that I specifically have worked with have been involved in all of those different programs, and it's a great way for them just to get out and intentionally just meet people. And again, especially my son went through Junior Leadership, and I know lots of people, most of the people I know probably have gone through Leadership Florence. And those aren't even about business specifically. It is, like you said, I mean, it's specifically going around and getting some cool insight.

And, and, you know, it's, it's beyond just the chamber. Those two key programs, Fellows in Education and the Junior Leadership Florence, those are partnership programs with other entities in the community. Florence One Schools program couldn't happen without them with Fellows. Uh, Debbie Heiler at the School Foundation program might not help, uh, happen just without her help. So the three of us, again, it was an opportunity. We were all in the room sometime 8 years ago and decided, you know, this would be a great thing for the community. And it has been a good thing for the community. It enlightened a lot of people, brought a lot of things to life and to light. And the other is the Junior Leadership Program. Again, was a similar— it was the genesis of that was a group of people sitting around talking about, they do this in another community on the other side of the state, why can't we do it here? And we said, why can't we? And so jointly we get together and we do something. There is— it's been very, very important. That junior leadership program opens the eyes of not just the students of what's available here in the Florence County area, but it opens the eyes of the parents. We get parents calling us all the time saying, I cannot believe that I didn't know that you could do the internship at McLeod Hospital or the, that number of engineering jobs at Otis and at Honda. And they didn't know. Sure. And now they get exposed to those things. And instead of these students thinking in their sophomore and junior years that they have to go to, not that there's anything wrong with going to Clemson or going to Virginia Tech or going to Georgia, to anywhere. You know, sometimes you can just find yourself in a home right here and that professional opportunities do exist that you didn't know about. And unless you're exposed to them and understand that they're existing here, that was the, that was the reason for that program. So again, those are the types of things we get involved in. Sure. Not solely, but with partnerships to make it happen.

The interesting thing is I think it gets lost sometimes, the greater Florence Chamber of Commerce, because I think with the junior leadership program, one of the things that you guys have done, they've been kissed from Pamplaco.

I mean, yeah, it's Florence County, it's not, not just Florence City.

And I think that again, around here, um, the city and the county sometimes get muddled and everybody from it, because again, I'm, I'm not from Florence, I'm from Florence, lower Florence County is what our, our all-star uniforms used to say. To say is that sometimes the assumption is, even when you say Greater Florence, people just assume that means the city of Florence, and it doesn't. That's been it, because I know kids from Pamplaco and some of the other areas in the county that have come and been able to, to benefit from that. And you're— I know kids who've participated in internships afterwards and things that, that they wouldn't have known. I'll tell you, and in the last, I don't know, 6 or 8 weeks, in addition to be able to have these conversations I was at one of the fellows meetings one day, and then, so the fellows in education, and I think that we were, I don't remember if we were at the district or if we were over in South Florence, but the following day I was out at the, I'm on the advisory board at the FMU School of Business where my brother works, and I left there, and you touched on it, and I remember like, don't sleep on Florence. Because big thing, I mean, the, the things that FMU has planned and for anybody, and I hope someday maybe I'll, I'll get to have coffee with him, Dr. O'Malley, and the things that have gone on, uh, yeah, in Florence. Listen, I'm telling you, man, and I know you see it every day, don't sleep on Florence because there's some crazy things going on in terms of just growth and opportunity.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I could go on and on about this, but then I would sound like the Chamber of Commerce. And the truth is, personally, I've lived in many communities, I've had that opportunity, whether it's Phoenix, smaller towns, smaller than Florence at times. And what's available here, it's hard to believe. I mean, it really is. You try to tell people And then it's frustrating also because there's a lot of people born and raised here that sound the frustration alarm, you know, there's not much here. Well, yes there is, and there's a lot more going on than you might expect. And there's people moving to town from some of the larger industries. It takes them a while to adjust, but you've got to point them, look, things are a little different here than they may be in Phoenix, but spend a year here and you'll come to appreciate greatly what is available. And for me specifically, it was a wonderful place to raise children, a wonderful place, and I would argue anybody on that.

Yeah, well, I've had a— I have a— one of my best friends in the world, one of my college roommates, listens to the show, and he's from Atlanta, and he said, uh, he said, yeah, I don't know if this is on purpose or just not, um, he said, but I've listened to all of these shows and they make me want to move to Florence. He said, I've listened to Ed Hoffman talking about Trinity and the private school system and what they do. It would cost me 2 times, if not more than that, to be able to have that available to my kids in Atlanta. Or, you know, Greg Robinson or some of the other— he said, every time I listen it makes me want to move to Florence. And that's not intentional, but it's true. I mean, you know, a lot of people get moved here for work. You're an example, or kind of move here for work, and then in a lot of cases they don't leave, you know. And so I think that that's, again, it's just a testament to all the things that, um, yeah, that the community does as a whole. Again, not my purpose for having these conversations, but It is an absolute byproduct. Yeah, because we live in a pretty cool place and sometimes people forget that.

Yeah, you know what? You've brought it up a couple times here this morning about education. You've got the Florence One system. Dr. O'Malley's done a wonderful job there. Again, an area that needed addressed and it was a big job and he's done wonderful there. You've got things going on at Francis Marion and the things that Dr. Carter's done with that university. You've got wonderful things that happen simply because of Florence-Darlington Tech and SIMT. I mean, just communities twice our size sometimes don't have that type of commitment from the leaders running those organizations.

For sure. And again, the SIMT is just a phenomenal facility and all the different things that they've gone out, and again, I look at both of the secondary schools, both Florence-Darlington Tech and Francis Marion have made cool and unique commitments to athletics that I think enhance the community as a whole, and again, all of the different opportunities, because again, in terms of college and technical education, We're at an interesting point now where tech has become a much more— maybe it's always been as important, but it's a focus for a lot of people. And you're right, we have a phenomenal technical school system where, again, a lot of folks that I know who've spent time at Florence-Darlington Tech make an awful lot of money with the degrees that they've gotten there. And so kind of a little, a little bit of something for everybody, whether you're somebody trying to figure out raising a family, which I agree with you, it is a, um, a wonderful place for that. But also, again, to grow, grow a business. And I mean, you've seen plenty of kind of businesses grown out of Florence that have, you know, uh, you know, First Alliance Bank, um, ACS, like lots of it that were— and I'm sure that that you can name thousands of them, but that started here that are really growing and thriving. Kind of, I was doing the Dabo Sweeney, like right here from little old Florence. So absolutely, yeah. And, and so it makes it, it makes it fun. And to see synergy, I mean, come on, man, they own half the downtown now, it seems like. And so just, just phenomenal stuff happening. Um, but for what it's worth, I'm glad you ended up here. Yeah, thank you. Because I wouldn't have met Trish if it weren't for you. That is absolutely true, and I'm incredibly grateful for that. Mike, kind of to wrap up, one of the things that I like to ask just because I find the answers interesting, kind of the final question, if you had to pick a fictional character, it can be a book superhero, you know, that you feel like best represents Mike Miller, Who would that be and why?

Well, I know, I, I, you know, overall, uh, it's been a little difficult for me getting through the careers I've been involved in. Uh, I'm really truly not a very outgoing type person, not a very social person. People say, oh yes, you are. No, I'm not. I, I struggle with that. It's sometimes I'd much rather just be at home watching TV or resting or being with one of my kids or doing something other than socializing. And I'm kind of quiet typically. Typically I'm very quiet. But over the years people have referred to me as a cartoon character called Eeyore.

Okay.

And I guess that's just part of my personality.

Sure.

Anything beyond that is hard for me. Sure. And I do it and sometimes say the wrong things and then I get myself in trouble because I'm not like my wife who can sit down in front of a group of people she met 30 seconds earlier and carry on a conversation for 2 hours. I'm just not like that.

Sure. Yeah.

Well, but Eeyore is what they used to call me.

I'm a big fan. I'm a big Winnie the Pooh fan. So any of the characters from, uh, from Pooh are winners for me. Well, Mike, thanks for spending some time with me.

Absolutely. I appreciate the invite.

Absolutely.