Pete Mazzeroni - Executive Director - Marion County Healthcare Foundation

This is Coffee with Cool People. I'm Chip Munn, and I'm excited today to be having coffee with Pete Mazzaroni. Pete, how are you?

I'm great, Chip. I love the name of this podcast.

Oh yeah? Coffee with Cool People. That is so cool. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. It's interesting. I had a, I don't know, somebody from out of town asked me one time what I did for a living, and my answer was, I kind of do life with cool people. I don't really know. A less complicated answer than that. And so when we were sitting down, Trish and I, I said, I really want to do a podcast that's personal, you know, just enjoy getting out and seeing people. And, uh, yeah, I couldn't think anything better. It's pretty simple, but, but I like it. And most people enjoy being called cool. So, um, we're of a certain age. I don't know, my kids might call us something different. But I like it.

Yeah, you know, I saw the grandkids last night and I was sending a text to my wife and I was talking, you know, talk to text. And my daughter-in-law was like, oh, you're so old, nobody talks to text. Like, what do you do, use your fingers? She goes, of course.

I can't even figure out what old is anymore. I just know that every now and then when I have to start moving my phone back and forth, I'm starting to get that you're—

I think you're there when you start typing with your index finger. Yeah, you're there.

Well, I do my best to keep up, and so this is, this is one of the ways that I do it. I have to figure out all this tech stuff to, to be able to, uh, to keep up with my kid. My 15-year-old actually took one of these, so one of the things that he does is he'll take these episodes and put them on YouTube, just the audio,. And I came home last week and he had transcribed. So he went to YouTube, clicked on some button, transcribed one of the episodes, and then loaded it. I think it's ChatGPT, I think it is, some sort of AI that then he uploaded the YouTube transcript into this thing and had the AI summarize it. Oh boy. And so again, mind-blowing. Way above me. Yeah, but it's fun to try to keep up with a little bit, you know. So, um, so Pete, just kind of to get started, the first question is pretty simple but hopefully complex enough. Who is Pete Mazzaroni?

So I'll— in lots of different directions. Uh, who is Pete Mazzaroni? I'm husband to Lisa, I'm a dad to 4 kids, 2 boys and then 2 stepkids, which I enjoy. I'm a pop-pop of 5 brands, 5 now. And yeah, I'm a former New Jersey cop who, like you Chip, made a career change at a young age and was lucky enough to then spend the next 27 years working in Big Pharma, what brought me down here. And 5 years ago made another career change, and now I'm running a nonprofit foundation.

So that's pretty wild. So I have to ask, cop to Big Pharma, so what was it like being— how long were you a cop?

For 6 years. Okay. Um, actually almost just about right out of high school, something I'd always wanted to do when I was a kid growing up. And so I got out of high school and went to college for a little bit, and I'm like, I don't want to go to college, I want to become a cop. And So I was just working odd jobs, and then actually the municipality that I grew up in was hiring. So I took the test, and next thing I know, I get a letter saying I was accepted into the police academy. I was the youngest person ever accepted into that police department at that time. And yeah, it was a great learning experience, and did it for 6 years, and I enjoyed it. But then after, after that time, and it was right after my first son was born. It's like, yeah, I think it's time to go do something else, and that's when I went into the private sector. Sure.

Now, was there a— was it because your son was born? Is that—

it was part of it. You know, we were— of course, you don't make a whole lot of money, and we were having some morale issues because we were, you know, trying to get more money. And my son was born in November, and it was that first Christmas, and I had to get up and go to work, you know, because we work 365. And thank, uh, thank all the men in blue and everyone else in service who do the things they do to protect us year-round. But it just, it was just the cherry on top, and I had to leave on Christmas for my son's first birthday. I said, yeah, I'm gonna go find something else to do.

Yeah, no. And, and so why Big Pharma? And how did you end up— what was the transition like?

Yeah, so, you know, how do I make a transition from law enforcement into private sector? You know, I still like the type of work I was doing, so I went into corporate security.

Okay.

And I worked for a big chemical company for about 4 years, and then I went to work for Roche, actually in their flavor and fragrance, in corporate security. And then that started my 27-year journey with Roche. What brought me down here. And then 4 or 5, 6 different jobs later with the company, different opportunities they gave me, in 2017 when we sold the plant here, I decided to take early retirement and go do something else.

That's awesome. So what was it like working at Roche? Because that, that's where you and I originally met, and that's what you were doing. What was it like? Because you were kind of the face.

Yeah, and, and that was, you know, probably my third or fourth job with them. When I started with them, I was doing their corporate security crisis management work, and then I came down here, which that's a whole other funny story how we wound up coming down here. But I came down here in a similar type role, figured it would be just a couple-year assignment to get the plant up and running, and then I would go back and do something else. But this job down here afforded me a bunch of different roles. I was in facilities for a while, and then we had a reorganization, and that's when I wound up doing the external affairs stuff.

Sure.

And that's where I spent the bulk of my time here in Florence, doing all of our community work, communications, government relations. And that's kind of where our paths crossed as well. But a great company, global, 80,000 employees in every part of the world, and the opportunity to do a lot of traveling that I probably never would have had if I didn't go work for a global company like this. So I can't speak highly enough about my experience with that company there. And you know, it's the way it ended was the way it ended, but I don't regret any of it. And I look back on the 27 years and Super happy with the career I had with them.

Sure. So you said there's a story. What made it stick? You thought you were coming for a couple— I hear this all the time, by the way. I meant to come here for a little while.

I was going back 30-something years. So this, we're going to go back, let's wind back to about 1994-ish. Group of guys were coming to Myrtle Beach. To go play golf. And the first 2 years, or the first year, a bunch of us drove down from this, from New Jersey. So, you know, drive 10 hours, 11 hours through the night and pull into the parking lot 7 o'clock in the morning for an 8:15 tee time. And you do that kind of stuff when you're young. Absolutely. And, um, one year we decided to take the train from central New Jersey to Florence, right? So now think about Florence 19— this was 1994. Not as much going on here as there is now. So we had about 6 guys, took the train to Florence. A couple of us got in the cab to the airport to get some cars to come back to get everyone else and got on to Palmetto here to drive to Myrtle Beach. And on the way, we saw a sign that said future home of Roche Carolina. Now I was working with Givaudan, which was their flavor and fragrance division. So I didn't, I never heard of Roche-Clarin, didn't know what it was. And, um, I said, I think I'll look into that when I get back. So I got back and made a couple calls, sent a couple emails, and next thing I know I'm coming down here for an interview. And, uh, interviewed and probably 3 months before I heard anything. And then I get a call from the head of HR, was Ron Chadiman.

Sure, absolutely. Oh, absolutely.

And it's probably right around Christmas or Thanksgiving, he calls, says, and we want to offer you the job. I'm like, that's great, Ron, when do I need to be here? He says, you need to be here right after New Year's. So now, yeah, now, basically now. And so, yeah, so came down here, like I said, thought it'd be a couple-year assignment and 20-something years later.

Yeah. Yeah.

I figured out the other day I actually lived— I was born in New York, I grew up in New Jersey, but I've lived in South Carolina as long as I lived anywhere else.

Wow. Well, that says a lot. So why'd you stay?

Oh, why not? I mean, it's got everything. Climate, cost of living, people. Florence was a great place to raise the kids. I really enjoyed my time here in Florence, um, a great job. And so yeah, I mean, why not? We're talking earlier, Florence is a great location. It's approximate to so many things. If you want to get out of Florence for a day or for a couple days, you're so close to the beach, the mountains, Charlotte, Atlanta. You know, we had transportation, we got the airport. I mean, it's just a great place to be. It really is.

Yeah, it's a crossroads of a lot of things. And again, I don't think that— it's been neat for me. My oldest son went off to Clemson, came back, and wasn't sure he was going to come back to Florence. You know, I just kind of expected he'd stay up in the upstate somewhere and was pleasantly surprised when he wanted to to come home and it makes you look at things differently. You know, when you, when you see young people as mobile as they can be and even my stepson Christian who goes to Charleston every other weekend, it's, you know, it really is and you mentioned before we started about the mountains. Yeah, I hadn't, didn't even register to me how quickly we could get there and it is kind of the sweet spot for me to raise my family. I couldn't imagine raising my kids anywhere different. It was really just a neat place, but also again, a stone's throw to just about anything else you could really want to do. You mentioned the people. You spent a lot of time here with the people.

Yeah, I explain this, Chip, this way. It's a town that's got the small town feel. From a people standpoint. You know so many people, and maybe part of it was because the role I had being out in the community with all the organizations I got to work with representing the company. I got to meet so many people, know so many people. But to me, it still had that small-town feel where you can walk into a grocery store, you walk into a restaurant, you walk somewhere, you're going to see somebody you know. And I kind of like that. Not everybody likes that. Sure. People say, you know, I want to go go to the grocery store, I don't want to see anybody I know. I don't mind doing that. I like seeing people and talking to people. Sure. So it had that small town feel and great people, but it was big enough that you can get whatever you wanted. Right. And if for some reason you couldn't get it in Florence, it wasn't far away to go get. So, so again, it's just kind of like the perfect size at the time for where I was and everything I was doing. So, you know, it's just a great place to be.

Yeah. One of the things that I've really enjoyed over the last, I don't know, well, 20 years at least since I've been back here professionally is it's a place that's growing and so there are plenty of new people coming in. You know, that's one of the things that I appreciate is I like the small town kind of aspect of it, but I also really like meeting new people. And so one of the cool things about the way that Florence has grown is there's always new folks coming in with different— because I find, you know, just different experiences. Again, when you get to meet a police officer from up north who's gotten into whatever, or, um, you know, somebody we both know like Jill Lewis, you know, who moved here years ago. And it's just a— again, I think that the growth that we've had affords a lot of that. And of course, new, new things coming every day, you know, whether it's the hospital and all the recruiting that they do, or You know, or the new Envision plant coming in a few years. It's just—

Major.

It's just awesome. Again, because I think it brings a lot to Florence. You know what I mean?

Absolutely. Yeah, when I came here, I moved here in 1995. And obviously 1995 was— Florence was different than it is today. And you know, I remember there were a lot less people who were from other places. Places. Now I happen to be working for Roche where 50% of the people that were working there at the time weren't from here. So I was always with people who weren't from here, but when I would come back home and into my community, I met a lot of people who were here from Florence. Fast forward 20 years later, the majority of people you meet anymore aren't from Florence. They've come here, like you said, with the hospital or with one of the big employers. Whether it's Honda or whomever. So yeah, a lot more people who just aren't from here that have chosen to make Florence home.

And for good reason. Yeah, well again, I find it very interesting the large number of people who come here for work who end up staying and working somewhere different. Yeah. And so, and again, I don't know that even being from Pamplaco, I don't know that 25 years ago that I expected I'd lived in Florence forever. But once you start, once you get plugged in, it'd be hard to leave the people. And again, particularly when you have kids, it's such a neat environment for all of that. What was it like in '95 moving here from somewhere else? Because you mentioned it was different then.

Yeah, so—

Because you don't talk like us, Pete.

So we were staying in the old Ramada Inn up on 52 and 95. There was maybe one hotel.

I was going to say, that tells you a lot about where Florence was then.

Yeah, exactly. The hotels up by the mall, I don't even know that there were hotels, if any, in 1959.

I don't think so.

So we were up on 52 and staying at the Ramada, and I'll never forget pulling into the parking lot and there was a sign on a marquee. It says, every Tuesday, pig picking. Nice.

Honey, we're home.

What in the world is a pig picking?

Like, no clue.

Yeah, I have no clue. And then, um, you know, another welcome moment. We were at the plant and we were driving back to the airport, and on Old Marion Highway, between the section that's between 327 and where the Timrod School There was an old like little store, little wooden store, and it was the only place to stop and I wanted to stop and get some water, soda, whatever. And we walk in and it was this big jar of like pickled pig knuckles or something.

Oh, pig feet, man.

I'm like, okay, you're not in Kansas anymore.

No, you wanna, back then I don't know if cell phones had cameras, but it's the kind you wanna take a picture of that and send it back home. It's like, guys, you'll never believe what I just saw.

But the flip side of that, I'll never forget the first time I went to the grocery store, one of the first times, um, the Piggly Wiggly, and got the cart loaded up, and the young man working there says, you know, ma'am, can I take those out to your car for you? And she's like, oh, you know, no, you don't need to do that, I can do it. No, really. And she went to, um, came out, she went to give him like a little tip, and he's like, oh no, ma'am, that's Thank you, but no, that's my job to do. And, you know, so we learned early on there really is such thing as Southern hospitality. Sure, there really, really is. And, and that was so refreshing and so nice. And it's the people. And it's funny, a couple years going back up visiting family, and, you know, it's rubbing off on me, and I'm walking into stores, talking to people. And my brother's wife's like, why are you talking to everybody? You know, I'm like, I don't know, because that's what you do, right? You talk to people. Sure. And it's just different.

Yeah, I enjoyed riding down the road waving at people you don't even know.

Yeah, like, who are you waving at? I don't know, just saying hello.

That's right. Well, it's interesting because I was in Piggly Wiggly last week and they still do that. They still offer to take your groceries out for you, which again, still feels a little bit weird, but it is. It's neat. Again, there really is a such thing as—

There's a lot to it.

And the interesting thing, one of the coolest things I think about that for me, Pete, is that it's genuine. You know what I mean? You see that stuff in the movies and it seems like it's made up, but none of those— None of the folks around here do it because they have to.

Right. You'll be up, pick any other town you know up north. I don't want to pick on northerners or whatever, but you know, people come by and say in your grocery store line, and hey, how are you? Hey, how are you? Hey, how are you? You know, they're just saying it to say it. Sure. We met so many people down here in industry that would say, hey, how are you? That they kind of mean it if you actually stop and said, good, how are you? They would talk back to you. Sure. Say, yeah, I'm doing good too, things are going well.

Yeah, you got to be careful because next thing you know it's taking you 3 hours to get your groceries. That's right. But so I'm curious, you've had lots of conversations over the years being in external kind of communications and such as you were. What was the purpose of that? What was the importance to a place like Roche to have somebody out in the community the way that you were?

Yeah, a couple things, Chip. I think one, you know, as a global company, really concerned about reputation, we wanted to make sure that we were being good corporate citizens and representing the values that Roche has out in the community. You know, not a lot of people knew what we did out there or how we did. So, you know, with that, they hear chemical industry, you know, what are they doing out there? There. So it's important to be transparent about the type of work we do and concern for the environment and safety for our people was important. But also I just think about being a good corporate citizen, supporting the community, supporting organizations. You know, payback ROI on that is, you know, it helps with recruiting. People want to come and work for a company that has a good reputation Sure. In your community, they feel good about that. Getting our employees involved in giving back and doing things in our community, you know, speaks to, you know, how the employees feel about working there, and that equates to tenure. And yeah, so it's just, it's part, I think, overall global strategy because it wasn't just here in Florence. We did this, we did this globally to just really be good corporate citizens wherever we had our operations. And that was a big part of my role here. Sure. Just to be out doing that.

Yeah. Well, and again, there's a big difference between being— there's only whoever it is that's running the plant every day. They're a pretty busy person. And the idea that they're also going to be out in the community promoting the brand, if you will. Again, I hadn't thought about it as an ROI in terms of reduced turnover and getting people involved in things, but I mean, that's critical, I would think. Again, hadn't even crossed my mind. But then in 2017, you took early retirement, and well, the way I like to say it, then you failed retirement.

Yeah, yeah, retirement didn't work well for May. And I mean, I knew I was going to have to do something. I just didn't know what. But when Roche sold the plant, you know, and that, well, you know, that 2-year period between announcing we were going to sell, then not sell, and then close, and then we're for sale again, to finally inking a deal. You talk about a journey of highs and lows. But at the end of the day, we wound up selling it. Plant's thriving out there right now, and I'm glad to hear that. And— but they didn't have— the new organization that bought the plant didn't quite have a role like mine. So if I wanted to stay with Roche, I would have had to try and find something somewhere else, and that would have been more than likely on the West Coast or in Europe.

Sure.

And at that time I wasn't in a position to move to either of those locations. So I said, well, I'll just take early retirement. I've got 27 years with the company and take some time off and decide what to do.

Yeah, and so how do you go from that to a nonprofit?

It's very interesting. I had put some resumes out to corporate America in different states around here and had some interviews, and in that 4 or 5 month period, nothing really came up. And then a friend of mine, actually, who was Mindy, said, "You ever hear of the Marion County Healthcare Foundation?" Like, didn't even know Marion County had a foundation out there. Well, they're looking for a director, and so they were using a headhunter out of Charlotte or Greenville, and I wound up sending in my resume. I got an interview with the board, and, uh, next thing I know, the board was offering me a position to be their executive director.

And then what does that mean? What, what does the executive director of a healthcare foundation do?

So, um, you know, I'll give you some analogies. Think about the Bruce Lee Foundation and Brad the Calicut. Uh-huh. Exact same model. A health legacy, what we call a conversion foundation, where where the, um, the municipality, the county sold their county system to private for-profit, right? And then they take those proceeds and they put it into a nonprofit foundation which then gives grants to their community. Um, so I'm the director. We're a one-man shop, so I'm it. So I run all the grant programs. We have investment advisors that manage our money, and then I just run the internals with our board, our investment committee, our grant committee, and our finance committee, and then oversee the processing. Sure. So that's really it. It's a great job. I love doing it. I've got a great board. I've got great flexibility in the role and how I do do the work, and at the end of the day, we give money, we make investments in Marion County to improve the quality of life for people in Marion County.

So what's been your favorite thing so far?

Oh, well, I guess some of the bigger projects we've been able to do there to really make a lasting difference. You know, we've done a lot of smaller work, um, supporting some of the smaller nonprofits, but within the last couple years we've just tried to kind of focus on making a real impact. And the analogy I use, instead of spreading out and being a mile wide and an inch deep, how do we do, you know, how do we go deeper, narrower but deeper, make some bigger impacts, things that are going to last longer times. And one of them, more recent, year and a half, 2 years ago, was the investment we made in Clemente Pickney Memorial Park in downtown Marion. And if you haven't gotten there yet, you need to go see it. It's just a beautiful park in the middle of town, a tribute to Senator Pickney. And the people who had the idea to do it and execute it, Senator Kent Williams and a team of other people, just really came up with this vision and made a really beautiful beautiful, peaceful place to go walk, have an event, sit down and just think. And it's really something we're really proud of as a foundation to be able to support that. I think one other thing that's exciting is a couple years ago, the for-profit that we had sold the system to sold, and now MUSC—

okay—

is in Marion. And MUSC is set up as a nonprofit, so that provides opportunities for us to also partner with them, right, to help make a difference there. And we did a project last year where we funded medical equipment, actually 3D mammography equipment.

Nice.

That they did not have prior, so women would have to go out of town either to the beach or coming to Florence to get the latest technology for their screenings. And now, you know, with the partnership there, we were able to support and MUSC making an investment, we now have that technology for the citizens of Marion.

Local.

Local, right there. And everything we do has to benefit Marion County.

That's right.

We're a place-based funder and everything we invest evaluate is how does it impact Marion County, whether it's healthcare and primarily healthcare or job creation, which is another focus area for us because we think, you know, a good job cures a lot of ills. Amen. So how do we create jobs and, you know, how do we support education and workforce? So that's, that's kind of our, our big focus areas. For our dollars at the foundation. And it's what we consider a medium-sized foundation. It's not the size of a Bruce Lee, but it's a nice-sized foundation. And we grant out between $1 and $2 million a year over the 10 years or so that we've been in operation there.

So it's awesome, makes a difference.

And we, we hope to be making a difference, and we really— our goal is to make a difference.

How do you decide? So when you start looking at all these different things, I mean, what goes into the decision-making?

So we have our focus areas which are out there, so it's got to fall into one of those buckets for our bigger grants. It's got to fall into one of those buckets, and then the grant committee just really looks at it and says, you know, what type of difference is it going to make? Is it meeting an unmet need? Is it duplicative, or is it unique? Is it going to be sustainable or is it a one-off? You know, a lot of criteria and discussion go into it, and then we'll prioritize. For our larger grants like that, we go in 3-month cycles, so it gives a chance as stuff comes in, we'll kind of hold on to it, stack it, and then at the end of that quarter we'll say, okay, we only have so much money. Sure. Where's our best investment?. And that's kind of how we make a decision, you know, where— what we should invest in. But ultimately it's the grant committee and the board that make the final decision.

Sure. I would have to think that's a really cool way to spend time, you know, getting to evaluate projects like that and to— again, I just look back and we can all do it in our corporate career, but I would have to think this is a unique opportunity for you to be able to look back back, you know, 5 years from now, but even looking back 5 years since you started to say, you know, this, whether it's the park, whether it's a physical thing or a program or whatever, it wasn't here. And because we're here now, this is. And I would have to think that's, again, for a lot of people I work with, man, that's what it's all, at the end of the day, after We're done, you know, kind of feeling like my mom says, I ask her, how long are you raising kids? And she said, well, it's 47 years so far. I'll let you know if it ever stops. So I can't tell you how long it's going to be, but I can tell you it's at least 47 years. You know, so we do some of that with our kids, but I think that after we're done raising our kids, it sure is nice to look back. I mean, you talk about, you know, the foundation legacy, but I think personally it's got to be neat to be able to say, hey, these are some things I got to be involved in above and beyond.

I look right around downtown, probably, you know, if you were to say what are some of the things working in your work career that you were either most proud of or got the most satisfaction out of, one of them would have to be the involvement in downtown revitalization. And when I had gotten on the board of the Downtown Development Corporation and got to chair that for a couple years, and there were some great people, you know, George, as you know, and some others who'd started laying the groundwork for yet another revitalization. But this one, you know, we got good support, timing happened to be right, and I was on the board. I remember I was chairing the board when we made a decision and said we need to approach council about hiring somebody to do this full-time. A volunteer committee can't do this any longer. We may be able to do events, but it was getting to the point where, you know, this building, the Waters Building, was for sale. We need somebody who, you know, can really get on the ground here. Sure. So, you know, And I remember approaching council and making a public pitch to council to hire somebody, and they supported it, and that's when Ray came on board. Right. And so when I come downtown today and look around, I always walk around and I just really enjoyed the work, the years I was involved in downtown development and getting things to where they are today. For sure.

Well, there's a lot to be said for having somebody might be accountable. And I think that's, you know, the old saying in church work is you can't fire a volunteer. And that's true when you get to things like that. At some point, you got to get committed to take that next step. And, you know, and Ray coming was, was a big part of that, no question. And again, as we sit here in downtown Florence, it's definitely different than it was even 10 years ago. You know, I joke, one of my best and favorite clients told me when we committed, because we committed to move into the Waters Building 18 months before our office actually moved, because at the time this place, you know, so we're in, you know, Victor's, wasn't— they had started, but it wasn't finished by any stretch of the imagination. And they said, well, we'll never, not ever coming to to your office downtown. You'll have to come to my house. And, uh, you know, 18 months later, after dinner at Victor's and figuring out kind of that folks had thought through— folks like you— the safety issues and all the things that people might have worried about, she was one of the first people to come through the doors. And so, uh, you know, again, I think that it's, um, It's hard to believe it hadn't been any longer than it has been for all the different changes.

It's, you know, it's a journey. And when I talk to people about it, it doesn't happen overnight. It takes a long time. And, you know, you've got to get people committed. And sometimes that's a hard commitment for people. Like, I remember, you know, it was 15 years ago or whatever, and I was in Charlotte Airport and I was having a conversation conversation with somebody and talking about downtown revitalization and somebody sitting a couple chairs over piped up and, you know, "I'm from Florence and I think the best thing they should do is bulldoze downtown." Like, gee, you know, we sat there and had an interesting conversation about it. But, you know, it just takes time. But once you get some momentum going and things get going and people start to see and look differently You know, you would have never envisioned some of this stuff if for those early adopters and the risk takers. Sure. You know, the John Keiths of the world who didn't say, you know, I'm going to take a chance.

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the interesting things that I kind of hear as part of your story is you're not a short-term guy. You know, whether it's the— you don't do things that take a week or two and then you're done and moving on to something different. Whether it was the community involvement with Roche, whether it was being involved in downtown, now with the Health Care Foundation. What is it with Pete that gives you that, I'll call it stick-to-itiveness? How do you stay with things when maybe sometimes other people don't see it?

Gosh, that's a great question, Chip. I don't know. I guess sometimes I can— I'm not a visionary, but I think sometimes if I get an idea in my head or I'm convinced by someone and I kind of buy into it, I'm like, okay, well, let's try and get there. Let's not give up on the going. All right, cliché, you know, when to go and get stuff.

Sure.

You know, I just think it's, you know, when you get convinced of an idea and you got people around you that are willing to buy in with you, then I feel kind of like, okay, I'm on his team, I'm committed, so let's do it. Sure. Let's give it all we can, and if it doesn't work, at least we can't say we didn't give it a good try and we didn't get a good team around us. You know, often a lot of this work, the conversation was, okay, who else do we need to have with us? Right. Who else? This isn't, let's go out and do this, I'm going to go out and do this. It's who else do we need to bring along? Who, you know, what stakeholder can get over that obstacle or turn that key for us or, you know, whatever is, who else do we need? Because let's bring as many people as we can to this. That'll, that'll help us get to where we need to get. And I just really enjoy that. Yeah, I really enjoy that. I like being part of a team.

Yeah, who, not how. Yeah, yeah. So again, two more questions. First, going to that, what would it take? Because I imagine we've talked about things that have lasted a long time and you bought. What would it take for you to back out? So what's the other side of that? Because my guess is that we've talked about a few things that were a long time. At what point do you say, oh, this isn't what I thought it was going to be? And how do you make that call?

Yeah, you know, I can't say it happened a lot, but I know of course it happened. I think if something turns out to be not what I thought it was and it kind of hurts my gut and I get like a, the ick feeling about it for whatever reason, maybe though, maybe what the real intent of the project was, or, you know, just got derailed and it's, it's going to be bad. Then I would, you know, find a way to just say, you know, thanks but no thanks. You guys want to go on, but this isn't for me. Yeah. And I can't say that's happened a lot, but I, I can say it's happened. And oftentimes it just comes down to, you know, gut feeling, like, yeah, I don't know the way— like the way this should go.

Yeah. Well, sometimes what you, what you thought it was going to be and what it becomes by That's one of the great things about involving lots of people is that you can get lots of buy-in and lots of help and the right people. But every now and then, you know, things can kind of get sidetracked a little bit. So not all things work out all the way that we thought they were going to. Pete, kind of in wrapping up, one of the questions I like to ask, which I've found a lot of fun with over the years, the year, I would say years, but if you could pick a fictional character that you feel like best represents you, who would it be and why?

Gosh, I have no clue. No clue. Best represents me, I don't know. How about who maybe I would want to be, and this is going to be so cliché, But I think it just goes back to when I was a kid sitting in front of the TV so much. My favorite TV show was watching Superman. And not to be Superman for superpowers, but like, who wouldn't want to be able to fly, right? Who would not want to be able to fly? You just jump up and fly. Yeah, you know, it's not so much about being bulletproof or having x-ray vision, but, you know, being able to fly. And I guess Superman always usually did good. There may have been some Superman movies where he was a bad guy, but, um, and, and I don't know, that's just first thing that pops in my head. I'm sure if I thought about it maybe on my drive later, something more profound would come up, but yeah, I'll just stick a pin.

What young man doesn't want to be Superman? I, I, well, and I think you call me young man, Chip. Yeah, I, I think that it's, um, again, I think it's always interesting, um, because Again, we identify with things from our youth. And again, whether we thought we were going to work every day trying to be Superman, I think one of the things that struck me when you said that above and beyond was flying was that, yeah, I feel like Superman always did good. And I mean, what better attribute, flying aside, what better attribute can any of us ask for than to get up every day and try to do good?

Yeah, no doubt.

Awesome.

Great way to wrap it up, Chip. That was awesome.

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I enjoyed it. Thanks, Pete.

So much. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Me too.