Identifying And Handling A Toxic High Performer | SDR #233

Welcome everybody, to the big show. Today we are going to talk about toxic high performers. We're going to talk about Christian's childhood trauma in great detail. You're not going to want to miss that. And there's some fun stuff about our favorite manufacturer in the news. So that and much more coming up on this edition of Service Drive Revolution.

How's it going, Chrisean?

Better than ever.

My buddy Chase Hughes came by yesterday with his trained German shepherd assassin dog. A year and a half, my dogs were completely unimpressed.

Really?

This dog is so smart. Does like crazy tactical stuff. Will attack, speaks German, like, whatever. And I have raised entitled. What are they? Z. What are my dogs? Gen Z. Gen Zs. They literally straight up just say, like, why would you work that hard?

You can have all this.

Yeah, like for us, I get snacks.

Anyways.

That'S so great you've raised entitled dogs.

No reason to get up and work.

Speaking of pets, like, I went to the. I went to the pet store the other day and I'm like. Because, you know, I really like a dog, but the travel and all the stuff. I'm a little bit worried about leaving the dog at home for long periods of time. So I'm like, well, what are some alternatives? So I go to the, the pet store and I look at the, the birds and then I remember that I actually can't stand the sound of cautious bird. So that was out right away. And then I got into the, the fish section and I'm like, okay, well maybe I just want a goldfish. Like something low maintenance and like low commitment. And if it dies, it's not that big a deal. So you wouldn't believe how many different kinds of goldfish there are. Like, there are goldfish that are gold, there are goldfish that are white. You have koi fish. You have like a whole bunch of different stuff. So this dude starts following me. I guess he works there and he's like asking me all these questions about like, my fish identification needs. So the he. He asked me tons of questions. I think I answered him. And then like the last straw, like, it just. It's so California. He's like, he's like, are you going to need to do on an aquarium? And I'm like, really? I don't care what the zodiac sign of the fish is. And I left.

That took a while. How is everything else?

Good. I've. I kind of hit that. That point again where, I don't know, I get on the scale every day and a couple of weeks, weigh yourself every Every day. And, and I got on the scale and hit the number.

There's trouble.

There's trouble. This plus her heart. Like Claudia, my girlfriend, she's, she's like, I think she picked me up from work one day and she's like, oh, no, I think I, I think I shrunk your shirt in the dryer. And I looked at her, I'm like, it wasn't the dryer.

I know you're not big into the fetish community, but there's a fetish as.

Much as I'd like to be beater. Yeah, I know.

It's pleasure out of feeding somebody. Like, so the bigger they are, the better you feel like it's a. Yeah.

So. So I think with her it's, there's just something about like, it's not the fetish, it's way more the, like me being bigger is a sign that she's doing a good job taking care of me.

Well, that's a. Yeah. They're the same, aren't they?

Yeah. Maybe it's a little more deviance in the feeder community, but. But I don't know that I see her as that, but it's really funny. So like we had that talk on Sunday and I was like, wait, what.

What day did you, did you tip the scale?

Sunday.

Sunday, yeah. So then what goes through your head at that moment?

I'm not controlling my outcome like I need to.

When you're in that, that headspace and you feel like you're not controlling it, there's another person that has influence on it.

That's right.

And that other person has a fetish that is contrary to.

To me being where. Where what I would say is my ideal area. Yeah.

So then how do you process that?

So Sunday night we have the conversation. Then I start to go over the ground rules of, you know, kind of explaining proteins, micronutrients, what do you call that?

You're giving a nutrition lesson.

Yes. And what, what is good and what's bad.

But there's, there's a fundamental breakdown. If you explaining to an adult how carbs and protein. Because your problem is carbs. Right.

Always. It's my weak spot for sure.

If they don't know that by now, what makes you think that you're going to be able to.

I don't know. Because the, like, the next step is I take it over. Right.

So you had a conversation with her.

Yes.

Then what? The food that was prepared after that conversation was hard boiled eggs.

Hard boiled eggs.

And then I think yesterday you were eating salmon and rice.

Yeah. Yes. No rice. It was just salmon, asparagus and mushrooms. And then Monday was chicken breast and spinach.

What is your lunch today?

Shrimp Alfredo. Cheesecake.

Come on. How did we go from salmon with no rice and veggies to shrimp Alfredo? You're joking.

Three days. No, I have the containers over in my office if you want to see them.

It's cream and butter.

You actually. You put carbs on top of the carbs.

That's so funny. Okay, what's in the news?

Who's our best friend? Manufacturer Ford. Ford.

Dealer friendly Ford.

Dealer friendly Ford. Stop sale friendly Ford. They're in the news again. What do you think it's for?

It's a recall. They're closing a plant. They're taking the ability to sell electric away from the dealers.

Yeah, none of that.

Come on.

Ford is adding thousands of jobs to turbocharged production as the auto industry rebounds. The industry is on. On its track back is what the article says. So they're Putting, yep, adding 3200 jobs at their Dear Warren plant, 1100 jobs in their Missouri plant. But literally they're doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on the Mustang Mach E, that like, SUV electric thing, the Bronco sport suv, which I think is going to be also electric Maverick small pickup, which I think is still ice and then the lightning and then their little. They have like this thing called a Transit E Transit, which is like a Sprinter like, but much smaller. Very, very popular with like delivery companies and stuff like that. So they're going to. They're literally just putting all their eggs in those baskets and they're adding people and they're. They're going to go full steam ahead. Next one is automakers have changed their strategy on pricing. They've abandoned like the entry level or starter car is what it says. And it's, it's raising prices of the average of the purchase. And essentially.

The amount of vehicles listed that are priced under $30,000 is half what it was just a couple of years ago.

I think that's going to come roaring back.

Oh, the economical car.

Yeah.

Yeah. Do you want to just take a guess?

What do you think the average MSRP of a car is? 34, 48, 205.

Oh, I'm way off.

Almost $50,000. I heard this the other day that the average car payment used to be 600 bucks and now the average car payment is 900 and change. So I mean, you just do quick math, like if you're buying. If you're buying it and you finance 50 grand that's $1,000 payment, right? Okay.

You want to talk about toxic high performers. So toxic high performers comes up consistently in the kind of. The way that it comes up is like, either they're explaining, I got this high performer. But. There's always a but. But they. This, this, this, and this. Right. What do I do? It always feels like it's a very.

Serious question that people have. They don't know what to do.

You.

I don't believe that I've ever thought that that was a question. I don't ever remember.

Asking that question personally. So let's just talk about. So what is a toxic high performer?

Yeah, so I came up with a couple of, like, characteristics. Now, you. It doesn't mean that this is a slam dunk. Like, like, one of the things that I've written down here is like, a toxic performer typically is like, they're very, very skilled and they're very, very well aware of their skill set right now. It doesn't mean that if you have somebody that's really good and that they know that they're really good that they're toxic. I'm just saying that this is one of the. One of the things that I've seen as a commonality with your toxic performer is that they're very aware of their skill level. So the second thing that's really interesting about a toxic performer is they're super calculated. Like, nothing, no activity is ever an accident.

So they. They know that they're better than everybody else. They're going to use that as equity to do things that are in favor of them, not in favor of the customer or the company.

That's right.

And they oftentimes get caught. So to your second one. You catch them doing it, but they're very intentional in what they're doing, and they think it's justified. Kind of like with Claudia, like, you're trying to explain to her what carbs are like, and we're saying somebody who's lived half their life doesn't know what carbs are, is a crazy thing.

Yeah, they're very aware. But I think that even so, like, they're so calculated that even when they get caught, they've already planned, they're out. So it's like, oh, they expected you to get like it.

I don't know.

It's crazy to. To say that, but it kind of goes into my next thing. They're master manipulators. They're really, really good at manipulating people. And in a lot of times, they're really good at Manipulating management, which is fascinating to watch because it's like you go in there with the best of intentions as a leader, and then they somehow flip it.

I would add to that in the fact that I would say a lot of times when this comes up, the management is in over their head. They're not even a match. Yeah, they're not even a match.

Yeah, that's. That's a really good point. Next is. And you kind of alluded to this, the customer only matters when it suits them. They're. Yeah, the customer is a weapon, not an. Actually that we value the outcome of the customer.

And low empathy.

Low empathy. People. That's right. When they're really trying to work with something, they're a good politician. Like the. The Toxic Performers, the one that does a great job of rallying everybody else around their cause. And see, and not even the people that they rally around don't even see that it's all about the Toxic Performers end goal. It feels like it's the group, but it's the individual.

Then what? The last thing that I think that you recognize is that the Toxic Performer, they hold the shop or the service department or whatever business it is, they hold it down, even though.

You might not see it. Right. So I think the best example that I can give you is, let's say that you've got a shop that produces, you know, 200 hours a week, and this one person performs 100 of the 200 hours. And when you pull them out of the equation and you recognize, oh, it's toxic performance. Not good. Typically, what happens with that shop, it then begins to produce 250 hours without the 100 hours from the person. So, like, it almost. The math almost doesn't make sense. But what you find is that this person getting their a hundred hours is keeping somebody else from getting 50 or 60. And the masses actually kind of perform well, and they. They do a better job on every ro. So you might not see it, but it feels like they're the ones propping up the shot. But really, they're holding it down.

So then I guess the next question is, what do we do with them?

They need a hug.

Really?

Yeah. Nobody's ever given them a hug, like, made them feel loved, and so they're acting out.

I don't agree with that at all.

Have you ever tried it? Have you ever tried to give a toxic performer a hug? Probably worried about hr.

No, I don't really worry about HR that much, believe it or not.

What? Yeah, you better worry about hr.

I should. Right Some of the stuff that I say. But no.

I'm trying to think back at times that I've given the toxic performer a hug and then they think that they've got an advantage over me.

Then you didn't give them a good hug. It wasn't a hug. That was like, hey, you need validation. You need love. It was more like, hey, I'm going to give you this because I want something in return.

Yeah, okay.

No.

Well, why don't we just agree to disagree on that one?

What about moving them into a different role?

So if we take a toxic performer from role A and put them into a different role, they won't be toxic anymore?

Yeah, like, maybe they. Maybe they need a different responsibility. Like, let's say you take an advisor that's toxic when they're dealing with customers, but you move them to an internal advisor.

You know, that's one where I could almost see it because you would probably. You'd eliminate the need for manipulation. You don't necessarily change the person. You just change their opportunity.

No, I don't believe, I don't believe any of this. But I feel like that's what. Like, I never understand why people have this question in the sense that whenever that this is posed and you're looking at the situation for what it is, it seems like the manager asking this question is a masochist.

They're a masochist. And then also they are not recruiting.

Is a feeder a masochist?

Maybe. Okay, you are a victim of a feeder. You know that, right?

You're a little fetish toy and you don't even know it.

Was wanted a ball gag.

It's always like, oh, well, I can't do anything. And it's like, well, you control the schedule, the where they sit, like what work.

They get, all that stuff. Right?

You control a lot of things, but you aren't in control. It's like, what is your intention? Like, I, I've never seen somebody get rid of a toxic high performer. And they, in the long run, they did worse.

No, and the funny thing is, is don't. Haven't you noticed, they instantly, the. The team and themselves, they get better. Right. Because I think that the main reason people keep toxic performers, it's because they're managing out of fear that they couldn't possibly replace whatever it is.

And they're not recruiting, so they don't understand what else is out there. They haven't invested any equity into having a bench. Yeah, like the thing that we always say, like, always be recruiting, always be Interviewing they. Because they haven't been recruiting. It's easier day in and day out to tolerate it to your demise than to change it.

Yeah.

Which to me, I would never let somebody hold me hostage. I just wouldn't. There's no way.

Yeah. I think that probably one of the better things to recognize, too, if you're, like. If you're in this situation, I would really challenge everybody. Like, the one thing that getting, you know, eliminating the toxic performer, whether you move them or whatever it is, I don't really care. But the one thing that it does force you do is it forces you into action. Right. Like, if you. If they're not there anymore, you have to do something. And I think that sometimes that's the best way is like, necessity will force it, but after you do it out of necessity once, you'll prepare for it every time after that.

I found I just thought of something, too, that's a commonality between the way you're handling your feeder situation and the way a lot of people handle this is a lot of times when this conversation comes up, I will call the toxic person in and I'll say, hey, you know, your attitude's affecting everybody else, and, you know, whatever. And what do you. Do you think that's the first time they heard it or the 10th time?

10 time.

No, it's the first time.

Oh.

Most of the time, people are walking around saying, this person's toxic. This person's toxic.

Telling everybody except the person.

My style is. I'll go, right, Adam, and your style is why I don't want to hurt her feelings. So I'll eat the. The Alfredo and the shrimp or whatever. Right. Do you see the connection there?

I.

Do you think I'm helping you with your feeder thing or not?

Maybe. Well, there's a difference between how I treat work and how I treat her. For sure.

Yeah. That's always funny to me. I have a friend that's like that where he is really, really good in business, but his dating life is like, you wouldn't know it's the same person. Yeah. But I would contend that the really fast feedback in. One of the reasons why I feel like I'm never in that situation is I'm addressing it in the moment, not. Not thinking about it, carrying it around, talking about it to other people. Like, I always feel weird talking to somebody else about something unless I need advice or a different approach, but most of the time, I'd rather just tell the person.

Yeah. Yeah. So that direct approach eliminates the toxic performance because, like, by the time they. You have to do all these things to become toxic. Right. But if you're seeing an activity that could be construed as toxic later on down the road, you're trying to nip it in the bud before. Right? Yeah.

And I think one. One thing for me, too, that I. That is a blind spot is I'm a little intimidating and a little quiet. Right. Like, I. I'm not always the one to fill up a room with words. I might listen more, ask more questions. The. The outcome of that sometimes is people will impose their own ideas on what I'm thinking.

I think a lot of people are trying to anticipate what you're thinking, and you. You don't play your cards very, very rarely.

But I do try very hard that if it's something negative, I go right at it. So nobody's ever surprised for sure, because I feel like. Because my personality is that way, if I do let things carry over, it just is more time and energy than it should be for everybody.

Yeah.

And I never want somebody to be blindsided in the sense of, I mean, you know, somebody being let go or not being a match and them not knowing that.

I remember you telling me that really early on, way back when I was a client was one of the things I remember you saying to me was, is if you let somebody go and they were surprised, that's 100% your fault.

Yeah.

Like, they. They see it. It's.

Yeah.

Stocked by a turtle. Right. Like, they knew it was coming for a long time before it gets there.

Yeah. I think the thing for me is if things aren't going good, I push in, and then if I get feedback and I see an attempt for improvement, like sometimes people are trying to improve, but they. They still are bumping into the wall a little bit. That's. So that's okay. If they're taking corrective action and they're honest about it and they're not blaming me, if they're blaming me for it, then it's an impasse.

Right.

But if they're trying and they're open to collaborate and open to feedback, and then from that feedback you see a change in behavior, we have something to build on. But the good part of that approach also is when you can tell as soon as they give up and they don't want to try, and then it's an impasse. And both parties know very quickly, well, no, we discussed this and you didn't do it. So, yeah, you're basically telling me you don't want to do it. You know you want to be here, right?

Yep. Yeah. Wow.

So for it to get to the point where you're like, should I tolerate a toxic person? Means there were a lot of. There were a lot of missed opportunities to give feedback and nip this in the bud before this moment that we came to this.

Realization that we have a toxic high performer.

Yeah, that's great. That really what it means if you've gotten to that point, that person has taken over control, which is to your.

To your list. It's really good. Is. Yeah. Like, they. Well, if they're more talented than you, they will be. They will become the leader. They're leading you. You're not leading them.

That's right.

And you're not collaborating because you don't have the same there. When they're an employee in that mindset, their motivation is them.

If their motivation was the company and the customer, you wouldn't be in that situation. Right?

Yeah. That's fair.

Because then it's. Then we're all just trying to figure out how to get better, but they're trying to figure out how to make it better for them, how to make it easier for them, how to make it lopsided or, you know, how to have an advantage when really between, you know, between a team of people, it. The advantage is in the marketplace, not against each other.

Do you agree with that?

Yeah.

100. Well, you got really quiet when I said the thing about the instant feedback.

Yeah.

And I made that connection. You, like, you started staring at your Did I? Sheet of paper.

That's great.

How many times have you. Have you had the chance to give instant feedback in you like, no, I can eat one tamale. No, I can.

I can eat nachos for lunch way too many times. Nachos?

Oh, no. Egg rolls. Deep fried egg rolls.

I get.

I won't dip them in sour cream. I'll dip them in the sweet and sour.

Yeah. I could probably even go as far to say, then I started to inspire it, like, oh, I love your tamales. I love your taquitos.

And you're inspiring it by your added weight. Because some feeder likes a plump papa chulo. Yeah.

Barely fits in their shirt.

I can't wait till she sees this episode she watches. Yeah.

Oh, we can never put this out.

That forces me to have a conversation before it airs.

I don't understand the carb confusion because I deal with that at home too.

Yeah.

I don't understand that nutritional thing.

So I believe that if you find yourself asking the question, what should I do. With the toxic high performer, you let it go too far.

Yeah. That's probably where I started looking at the ground, was thinking about that, because I've had toxic performers work for me before, and it's the. There was 10 opportunities to change it before the 1.

The other thing that people say is like, well, I got this advisor, but they're cancer. I got this tech in their cancer. And I'm like, you're describing an employee as cancer. Like, how did you get to that point?

Plus. Plus you're the surgeon.

Yeah. Like at the first sign of cancer. But once again, you go talk to that cancer. And most of the time they're. They're running their own business. They're oblivious to any dissatisfaction.

Yeah.

They think because it's allowed. They think it's, you know, they. They convince themselves that it's okay. The cognitive bias has kicked in a long time ago.

Yeah, I agree with him.

They justify it. Good. Well, fun stuff. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in. We'll see you next time on Service Drive Revolution. Thanks so much for watching this episode of Service Job Revolution. We're uploading new stuff every day, so make sure you subscribe and click the bell icon so you don't miss out. If you have a question you'd like us to answer on the show, call 8333 Ask SDR and we'll answer your question on the show. That's 8333 Ask SDR. For special deals on our books and training, head over to offers.chriscollinsinc.com now that's offers.chriscollinsInc.com I'm Chris Collins, and I'll see you in the next video.