Maitreyi Ramakrishnan: Why "Attack on Titan" is Actually the Best Book Ever

I love to find stories that make me feel stupid. I trusted it, and it flipped. Am I allowed to say that? Spoiler alert! I was on my first protest at, like, the age of, like, 5. This was just another day in the household of my family. But it's been him the entire time, and you're just like, whoa. Spoiler alert again! Only one?

Only one.

That's messed up. Storytelling has been so pivotal in history, in culture, for a reason. If I could erase my brain and, like, delete all information I have about this series and find it again for the first time, this would be it.

So big question, how did Attack on Titan change your life?

Um, changed my life because—

I'm Chris Collins and you're watching Books That Changed My Life. This is your first and only spoiler warning, so dust off your ODM gear, bite your hand, and get ready to rumble because actress and book lover Maitreyi Ramakrishnan is here to talk about the series that changed her life, Attack on Titan by Hajime Isayama. Okay, so we're here today to talk about Attack on Titan.

Yes.

Which is this.

This whole situation.

The boys were really excited.

I've heard. I got to geek out.

To the fact that we, uh, got them all.

I know. I was— I didn't think you'd get all of it. That's so exciting and awesome. I was very happy that y'all were down to let me nerd out about my favorite manga series and favorite work of art. So.

Yeah. So unpack that a little bit because it is kind of beyond just a book, right?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. It obviously started as a manga series, but then in tandem got adapted into an anime as, you know, the manga kept going and, you know, manga comes first, anime follows behind. But this was a series that I found when I was in middle school. I found the anime first, and at the time, there wasn't a lot of, like, seasons or episodes, but there were still books that continued more. And in my library at my middle school, they had a couple of volumes. And I was like, oh, so I can, like, keep up with this. I can read this and know what happens next, because there was a huge hiatus with the anime. This was the first series that I really got into reading-wise with my love of anime because I was so obsessed with the story. I just needed to know, like, what happened and what are all these mysteries that throughout the whole series slowly become uncovered.

And so what kind of kid are you at 13?

A janky one. A brat child one. I was—

What's a janky child?

I was pretty scuff. I was pretty scuff. I was, you know, still trying to be cool. Very opinionated, very— I'm just describing me now, I'm not gonna lie. I think maybe I'm just slightly better, like slightly better, like design and like aesthetic choices. But I always wanted to be unique and I would have my clip-in blue hair extension 'cause I begged my mom to let me dye my hair. She said no. I had my blue clip-in hair extension. I had these shoes that were, Like, you know, they had like wings attached to them. It was like a little bit of like a, like a Hermes situation. Um, I definitely did get bullied for those, but I did not care. I wore them every single day. No one was gonna stop me. Oh my gosh, that looks amazing! They like made that from scratch.

Yeah. On a scale of 1 to 10?

That's like a proper 10. I'm actually serious. I'm not even trying to like, because For the record, the whipped cream is also homemade. And the chocolate is not like too, too like dark chocolate. It's like the right amount of also sweet. Because I'm a child, I like white chocolate. Okay? And people are like, oh, dark chocolate is real chocolate. White chocolate is just sugar. Yeah, okay, and? Like, that's not what we're talking about. I said what I like. Leave me alone. That's really good. That's a solid 10. Also, it's a 10 because there was effort and you can taste the effort.

Yeah, there's a lot of love in that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a 10. 10 out of 10. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But I'd say, like, I was a very social kid. And I've always been someone who's proudly a nerd and, like, wears her nerddom on, you know, her sleeve. One of my first ever— going back to Attack on Titan— I think my first ever purchase of clothing that, like, I bought for myself that wasn't just clothes that my mom bought for me for school was a Hot Topic Attack on Titan sweater that I still own today. That is my lucky sweater that I wear to my auditions. So, yeah. Yeah.

So every audition you wear that sweater?

Yeah, I like— I'll take it with me when I'm traveling, you know, so I just have it with me. It's my go-to sweater. It's like comfort. I could never get rid of it. Yeah.

So you, you had a lot of friends at 13?

Yeah, yeah, I had homies. I was always very like popular by friendliness. That was my thing, you know. I can't lie and be like, oh, I wasn't popular. I was popular. Um, I would just talk to everyone. Under the sun. And I think because of all my different interests, I would be able to relate to other people's interests and find some common ground. And then for the other nerds that like Star Trek, I'd be like, yeah, I know a little bit about that. Yeah, I know about like The Next Generation. Yeah. But anyways, I would bond with everyone out of friendliness and would just be chill with peeps, you know? Yeah, that was me, me as a middle school child.

Yeah, that's fun. That's fun. And so, um, what did your parents do?

Uh, my parents, they've had all sorts of different jobs, but right now, um, my parents are union reps. So, you know, we're just a family of a bunch of socialists, uh, believing in union rights and, you know, unionizing all of our workers so that we have, you know, good collective power. Uh, my brother is the nepo baby of the family. He actually also does the same thing as my parents, but he does that up in Northern Canada. But yeah, they're both union reps fighting the good fight. They instill it in me always to know my collective agreements as a SAG actor and ACTRA actor. So I'm double wielding the union cards. But yeah, my parents have always, in like their life, have always been in a space that is always, you know, geared in like social justice. So because of the work that they do, uh, growing up, it was always making sure that we understood like speak up for people and be on the right side of history, not the bystander complacent side. Um, that's just as bad as being on the side of the oppressor. So yeah. Yeah.

Indifference is also an action, right?

Yes. Exactly. Indifference being the bystander. Like, my parents would never be upset at me for not booking a role. They would never be disappointed in me for not getting some accolade. But my parents would not recognize their daughter if I didn't stand up for someone and what I believe in. That if I was silent, that would be the day my parents would look at me and say, you've lost your way.

So if somebody isn't familiar with Attack on Titan, Uh, let me— actually, I have an idea.

Tell me.

I'm gonna put a stopwatch. I'm gonna give you 60 seconds.

Okay.

And you're gonna explain it. And do you think you can do it?

No, I can't. Okay, but I want to see how well I can.

In 60 seconds.

Can you tell me when I have 15 seconds left?

I'll flash it.

I'll just flash it. Okay.

You ready? Tell me when you're ready.

I'm just thinking of my first. Okay, I'm ready. Okay, essentially the story starts off with a young boy who's trying to see what's beyond these walls that surround his village, right? There are these tall walls, and you cannot see what's happening on the other side. But we know that there's these creatures called Titans that are, you know, big and like to eat human flesh, and they seem to be the enemy. But that's the original premise of the first season. We will later find out that this story is about much more, and we're questioning who really is the bad guy and who are—

The good guys.

the good guys, and what does bad and good even mean? But, oh my God, I'm at 30 seconds. If I had to encapsulate what this story is as a pitch for the whole story, it is about how humanity has the constant desire to oppress, to conquer, and take over people. And it is a vicious cycle that we cannot get out of. And the only thing you can hope and do, unfortunately, is hope that in this lifetime you will be the oppressor, unfortunately, and not the oppressed, because the next lifetime it could be switched, because that's the cyclical life that we live in. as humans because we have the desire to constantly keep colonizing and sacrificing other people. That was 1 minute and 4.

Good job.

1 minute and 4. I'll give that.

That's awesome.

I'll do that. Yeah. It's a book that I think a lot of— here, I'll spin this around because it's going to bother me. It is a franchise that I think people could look at and say, like, oh, this is just an action It's like drama, it's action, it's whatever, you know, scary kind of story, but it's not woke. Just don't put all that politics onto it. That's not what it was about. But it's 100% what it is about. And I think a lot of stories in general, other works of art, are inherently political, but people sometimes don't like to see that, and they just want a story about a fictional place. But this is a story about a fictional place that is clearly mocking the world that we live in and the cruel things that we do as humans to one another, you know, because we are operating from a place of righteousness.

So when you're 13—

Yeah.

How does it land different than it lands now? Like, when you're 13, did you understand that?

So no, no, I did not. When I was 13, um, I kind of got to like follow along with the story like the characters did because When I was 13, I want to say, like, maybe, like, this much was out or something like that, in terms of also especially, like, the anime. And we learn with the characters what's going on, right? The story you begin with is a very clear perspective of, we are the good guys, those are the scary bad guys because they're eating us. They are literally killing humans. They're eating our flesh. They are bad. And that's how you start off the story. As you continue with the rest of the series, you realize, oh, Wait, there's more to this. Oh wait, there's other people. They come with their own baggage. They come with their own propaganda, their own life story. And now everything is, you know, mind blown. But as a child, no, I was in the same mindset as our main 3 characters were at that age, which is kind of cool. Yeah, really cool. Yeah.

And, and so Who are those main characters?

So, it's the 3— our trio is, you know, Eren as our main, main character, Eren Yeager, Mikasa, and Armin. Those are our 3, you know, characters that are childhood friends that we start off with, and we basically kind of follow throughout the series. Some believe that the story is essentially Eren's story told— Eren's story told Through Mikasa's POV, narrated by Armin. And it's this whole retelling of what happened. I think I got that right. But yeah, it's essentially what happened to Eren in Mikasa's perspective, told by Armin. Our 3 childhood best friends.

Yeah. And when you're a kid, the violence doesn't affect you? You liked it?

I don't know if I liked it. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Um, but I didn't like— I don't know, it didn't scare me. I don't know, I don't know why. I wasn't like a violent child. I also like really was scared of blood. So I think like reading it, you know, it's all like, it's black and white. So maybe like the lack of red didn't freak me out as a child. But even watching it—

There's a lot of violence.

Yeah, there is. Why was I like, why was I chill? I don't know, it didn't faze me.

That's what we want to know. Why were you chill?

I think the premise of like what was happening was so just intriguing that I kind of overlooked the violence aspect of, like, the blood and the guts. But because the mystery of what is happening, who are these people, was the bigger question. And even when I think about the show now, and some people say, like, oh, it's super gory, it's, you know, violent, I think for me, the questions that come about in the story are so much more...

Intriguing.

riveting that I'm not focused on the violence, you know, even though the violence is a core topic of what is happening. But for me, it's the why is the violence happening that actually should scare you, you know, more than the blood itself. I don't know if that makes sense.

How do— so at 13, how does it change you? How does this story change you?

At 13, A, I think At 13, I mean, it changed me in a way of making me feel so passionate about something to buy like a sweater that makes me rock it with pride in my middle school and have something that I say and can claim is my favorite thing. Especially as a kid who wanted to divert herself from her brother in every way possible, this was a thing that was mine. Like, this is my Tre's favorite thing. And I think that contributes to, like, the person that I am today, the person that I was at 13, of someone who was such a painful— painfully individual guy, you know? So I think that is the biggest way that it impacted me. And then as a story itself, it made me really intrigued about stories that I can't predict what's gonna happen. Now, as a 24-year-old adult, like, I love to find stories that make me feel stupid. You know, I don't want to feel smarter. I don't want to feel like I can predict it. I want to feel stupid. I want to feel like the rug has been pulled under me and I had no idea where this was going.

Like you trusted—

Yeah.

The story and it—

Yeah. Like I trusted—

Flipped.

I trusted it and it flipped. It made me question all of my biases. It made me question my loyalty to which characters and question like, Wait, why did I just give my trust to this person in the story? Because I don't know them. Oh my God. Like, this is a whole new playing field. So I really liked that as a child because it made me just so much more discerning to also— and a big part of Attack on Titan is perspectives and where people are coming from and their own agendas. So it made me realize, like, everyone has their own stories. Everyone has their different POVs. So yeah, I think in those ways it curated what I like and also really informed my personality, you know?

Did it make you grow up a little faster? Those are some complex issues.

Yeah, I think so. I would say so. But I wouldn't say Attack on Titan is what made me grow faster. I think, in all honesty, my parents are the big reason as to why I was— and I don't want to say grow up faster as in like they didn't let me have a childhood. I 100% had a great childhood. I have to give them credit. They were always team like explore your creativity, have fun, make mistakes, you know, live your life. But my parents never shied away from talking to my brother about heavy topics. They never spoke down to us like kids, never dumbed like anything down. Like I never got the baby in a stork story. You know, my parents were always challenging the way we thought. My dad would make us, you know, read the newspaper, pick an article, and we'd have to summarize it. But my dad would also pick a contrarian opinion just to be on the opposite side so that I would have to articulate my debate back. I realize now that was on purpose so that I could learn how to formulate my own argument, formulate my own opinion, and then articulate it with, Yes, passion, but also eloquence and still assertiveness. So with their, you know, parenting, this was just another day in the household of my family.

This was Diet Coke?

Truly, truly. I mean, going back to my parents, like coming from like Sri Lanka as survivors of a genocide, I was on my first protest at like the age of like 5, 6, blocking a highway, raising awareness about the Tamil genocide. Like, I knew what that meant at a very young age. You know, I was that kid that would be teaching other kids on the playground, like, well, actually, like, did you know this is happening and this, this, and this is happening? I was the kid that knew when, like, cuts to education were happening in our province of Ontario and how they were cutting extracurriculars and increasing classroom sizes. And my other friends might not have known, but I would tell them like, guys, this is what our like premier is doing. This is messed up. We should plan a protest. There's like, you can probably Google it. It's out there for sure. There is an article about these 3, 4 kids protesting in front of their middle school. And there is a picture of a very dorky young brown girl holding a sign that says like, we don't wanna be hostages. And the only reason we got news coverage was because my mom called the news and was like, hey, I see some kids protesting in front of this local middle school. Ooh, you guys should come and check it out. And then one of our other moms would drive a car by and honk the horn for us. So we felt like we were getting support. It was just still like our mom's friend just going around and around. But that That was how I grew up. So this felt like right. Like, it felt like, yes, this is real. This is not a fluffed story about just like, ooh, demons are bad. This kind of is saying like, you know, like any children's story where it's like, you know, demons are bad, these are the bad guys, we have to be the good guys that kill off the demons that are attacking our land. This kind of flips the script a bit. And kind of tells you the demons, or in this case, Titans. So yeah, sorry, that was a long-winded answer.

So there is an example in here of the Eldians and the ethnic violence and oppression, kind of like what your parents experienced and what has happened.

In so many places all over the world throughout history. Yes.

What is your, uh, thoughts on that in relation to this, but also just Globally, when the oppressed fight back and become what they hated.

Yeah.

I mean, it's such an odd juxtaposition that you don't want to be oppressed, but then when you get the power, you do the same thing.

Yeah.

That you were fighting against.

Understanding this series makes you understand that the cycle is vicious. It is not okay. And you cannot think that you are in the right or you are good by believing that you are owed a land that exclusively is yours because of some birthright and actively oppresses and decimates a whole culture off of the grid. Because this series is fundamentally telling you that none of the characters here are in the right. They have all made terrible, egregious mistakes and crimes against each other's fundamental human rights. That's what I'd say.

How do you stop it?

I mean, I feel like if we figure that one, the world would be a lot better place. I don't know. I haven't figured it out. I don't know if anyone's figured it out. But I do think, I will say, and maybe this is a little kumbaya, but I do think that maybe if we don't know how to stop it, if we don't know the one sentence that's gonna fix it all, I do think that the first step for sure to getting closer to stopping it is waking up and stop being ignorant and actually listening to each other all sides of opinions, on all different perspectives, and listening to other people's reality instead of just constantly defending your own.

What character did you relate to the most when you were 13?

Ooh, when I was 13? Uh, Sasha. Sasha. Um, she's this cool character that's obsessed with potatoes. I almost— I heard a laugh. Our potato girl. I really like Sasha.

What did you learn from her at 13?

Well, at 13, at that point of where I was in the story, I just liked that she wasn't like this, like strong, like super athletic girl. And I was not an athletic girly. She was just obsessed with potatoes, hence the nickname Potato Girl. She just was also obsessed with like food. And when she's training with the rest of the scouts in the story, training to be a part of the military, She's just always eating food, and she's a little bit odd. And she's also very funny. So I think I just liked her the best for that because she was not— she's not the biggest fighter. But as the story goes, she definitely gets her skills. She gets her fighting skills. But she was really just a girl that's a little odd, and she didn't want to train and would try to skip out on—

Training?

You know, training and whatnot. And that was me as a girl who was 13 and hated gym class.

Who's your least favorite character?

I'm going through every single character right now in my head, and every character has an explanation. I don't have one. No? Every character serves a purpose of a very real kind of person. in a situation of war. So it's hard for me to hate any of these characters.

Because it all makes sense.

Yes. You know, they're all so well written, and there's no character that's there for fluff. And I think a lot of times when people hate on certain characters of this franchise, A, they're mainly hating because they might be a woman. Boo. B, they might be hating on a young child named Gabi because they can't realize that That child is actually a parallel of our main character, Erin, and they don't realize the point of what she is. Um, or they may just not be the most, like, macho athletic character, but they serve a different kind of purpose of what their skill is in the story. So I generally don't have a least favorite character that annoys me. They all really serve a purpose.

So you, you like storylines that surprise you?

Yes.

What is your favorite plot twist In this series?

Am I allowed to say that? Spoiler alert! Ah! Big spoiler alert coming. So there is a moment where we flash back and forward a lot in this series, right? And there is a moment where we are flashing back to a moment of our main character, Eren, his father. And his father is in this, like, ice cave. Right? And he's about to make, like, a decision to essentially, like, steal a power from another character, right? And this is the moment we realize that everything has already been decided about this whole story. Isayama, the creator of Attack on Titan, essentially wrote this story in reverse. And there's this moment where his father, Aaron's father, is freaking out because he doesn't want to do something. But fate's already been decided. Aaron's already controlling everything. And he drops the hardest line ever, and he just goes, off your knees, to his own father. And it's just insane because we realize who we thought— like, the father made this cruel decision that fated his son to be this person that the son never wanted to be. But the father is the— reason why Eren is fated to be this person, but instead it's not. Eren has decided the fate of his father and then himself, because everything has been decided by Eren. And that was just a mind-blowing moment for sure. Yeah. And there's like so many more moments like that too. So many more moments. Oh my God.

Give me another one.

Oh, for those of you who've seen Attack on Titan, All I gotta say, conversation with Reiner and Eren, or Kruger. Basically, Eren has been undercover in Marley, and we didn't realize that it's him the entire time. But he's basically about to, like, basically set up an attack on Marley, and the rest of his friends from Paradis are gonna come in, and it's gonna be a big thing. And he essentially has taken Reiner into this room and kind of has him hostage in this moment. And it's this reveal to the audience that this is where Eren's been, because we haven't seen him for a couple of chapters. We're like, where's Eren at? Where's our main guy? He obviously must be brewing somewhere. We're getting letters from him, but where is he? He's been there the entire time. We just thought he was a patient. That is suffering from PTSD as a result of the war, but it's been him the entire time. And you're just like, whoa. And then also you look back and you're like, well, obviously it was him. Look at how he's drawn, bro. Like, that's obviously Eren. I'm lowkey a little bit dumb for not seeing that, but like, whatever. But yeah, that one was like, my Trey should have known better. That one was really good.

Do you know, do you know how many characters die in this?

No.

Would you say it's a lot or a few?

Are we going by characters by name? Like characters who have name?

Yeah.

Okay. Because if it's not characters by name, I think like— don't fact-check me. I mean, fact-check me, I guess. But it's like—

Somebody will.

Do it. Do it. But I think they say like 20% of the Earth's population remained by the end of the story. Spoiler alert again!

80%?

Yeah, yeah, 80% is killed. But in terms of characters with names, I don't even know. I don't even know because now I'm thinking on both sides of the war.

Is there one that you would bring back to life if you can only pick one?

Only one? Only one? Only one. That's messed up. Uno. I was gonna say Hanji, but Hanji, no. She has the most— one of my favorite death scenes because it's a death on her terms. And she goes out in essentially what is a suicide, like a suicide mission. And she knows she's going to die. So I won't bring her back. I respect Hanji's choice.

But she's the first one that came to mind.

Just because I liked her death. But it was her choice. I have to say Sasha. Potato girl.

Hmm.

Potato girl. She— but this is the thing. What's beautiful about this story is that also every death is— there's a purpose. And there's no death that's like, oh, they just did it because they wanted to kill off a fan favorite and have drama. Though Sasha dies, her impact of her death and what her legacy does, especially to some younger characters, a.k.a. Gabi, Is very important. If Sasha doesn't die in that moment, the other characters that are affected by her death will not make the empathetic choices that they do to not kill another person because of— she is alive, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

We basically— Sasha dies because of Gabi, this young girl who shoots her. And later on in the series, Sasha's a very beloved character at this point. This is one of the— The hardest deaths in the whole series. Later, Gabi doesn't kill someone who she once would've thought is the enemy and is, you know, an Eldian that needs to be rid of. And it's because Gabi is so influenced and impacted by Sasha's death that we see this is the impact, you know? So, I— if I could bring someone back, I'd bring my girl— Bring, bring my girl Sasha back. But I understand why she had to go. I get it. But she was really cool. And I think that's also my 13-year-old self wanting her back, lowkey. So, yeah.

So you kind of described this as your favorite piece of art.

Yes.

Kind of unpack your thoughts on it as a piece of art and then just how art can be used To change people.

Oh my God, art can be changed to use the world, right? Um, yes, this is my favorite piece of art. Thinking people, as you know, a lover of anime, the question that you always get is, what's your favorite anime? What's your number one? And I say Attack on Titan, and then I add the disclaimer, but it's not my favorite anime, it's my favorite work of art. It, for me, beats all other anime, but all other manga series, all other books, poems, sculptures, paintings, movies, TV shows. This is my favorite. If I could erase my brain and never, like, and like delete all information I have about this series and find it again for the first time, this would be it. Like, this is the one. And it's just, it's such a masterpiece. It teaches you so much. when you reflect and make your real-world connections, like, you know, we previously talked about. And that to me is impactful art. Like, art really does change the world. Because as an actor, when people ask like, oh, what do you hope audiences take away from this series or this movie? I'm of the belief, take away what you want. This is art. I made it, I give it to you. If you take away a funny story, Great. It gives you a piece of safety and joy maybe in a dark time.

Great.

If you take away a hard, meaningful lesson about maybe female friendship or about grief, great. It helps you process the death of your own parent. Great. Awesome. If you take away that you hated it, then great. You're one step forward in knowing what you do like 'cause you know what you don't like. I think art just has the ways of connecting with people in a way that tickles their brain. Not everyone maybe resonates with one medium versus another, but either way, storytelling has been so pivotal in history, in culture for a reason, because it's knowledge sharing. That's why, like, books really are so powerful. It's such a clear source of knowledge, you know?

There's a couple mediums being used here also, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It's storytelling, but it's drawing.

Yes, the artwork. Like, my favorite scenes aren't necessarily about the dialogue, but the way how just like comic books and superhero comics, how panels are distinctly put in the ways that they are, where text is placed. There's such an artwork, like an art and mindfulness about that. that I truly love in this series that, you know, Isayama created.

Because that's kind of how you experience it.

Yes. Yeah. And I remember I already read the final chapters well before they were animated. And I remember being so happy when I watched the show that it just felt so truthful to what was happening here. But when I just read the book, it could just visualize it like it was moving. like I was there watching these scenes unfold. They— even though they're still images, there's so much life, you know?

So I, I'm always fascinated with how when you experience a book young, it has one meaning, but as you change and—

Yes.

And you grow up, the meaning changes.

Yeah.

And so as you sit here today, what is different about the meaning Than it was for you when you were 13?

I think when I was 13, the meaning of this series was to get revenge for what you have lost. Just as our main character loses his mother, he wants revenge, and he wants to find justice. Now, also with growing up with this series, which is like the beautiful thing about a series too, as a 24-year-old adult that made it to the end, yeah, I'd say the meaning for me is about realizing that, yeah, there's no easy good or bad, black and white. You are on the right side and I am on the wrong side. It's much, much more complicated than that. Yeah. It's really cool that I— now that I'm having this conversation, I realize how much I've really grown up with the characters because there was such a long hiatus. I was truly in the mindset of our main trio's perspective on life. Those are the bad guys. They killed my mom. We gotta go get revenge. To being at the end and thinking, oh, this is way more complicated than we thought. This is way bigger than all of us. Yet we are also complicit and have to recognize what we contribute to other people's life and our impact. Yeah.

It's also really cool that, that you pick this in the sense that I think a lot of people wouldn't understand the depth and how experiencing a story in this way, delivered this way, versus just words on a page.

Mm-hmm.

Um, even though it's in black and white, it's more colorful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because also, like, I mean, just like, you know, the written word, um, no pictures, like, they are telling you what They want you to know and omitting what they don't want you to know yet, right? But here in manga, similarly to comics, like, they are showing you what they want you to see. You know, they're literally showing you what to focus on, what frame to focus on, who to focus on, and what to question at the right time. I think Isayama does such a good job of that, of keeping you exactly where he wants to keep you.

Yeah.

So that you are on this journey with them.

One other thing that I find fascinating, and I don't know if you have thought about this, is the tempo is different. There's a different tempo, and tempo changes experience.

Totally.

Like, you have to stick on it. And then there's some stuff that's like— but the tempo changes different than if you're just reading. That usually is the same tempo for us.

Yeah.

There's some sections in there that don't have words, and you end up spending more time there than you would where there are words.

Where there's dialogue. Because the dialogue sometimes can tell you, like, this is what's happening. Now move along. But then sometimes when it's, like, a detailed frame, you want to, like, see, like, what are all the details? Like, what is this guy looking at? Like, you have a moment of just, like, this of Armin. seeing Zeke, right, in the pathways. And we're just sitting with this moment of this realization. We're with— we are exactly where Armin is right now. We are realizing this right as he is. And just staying on this, you know, panel just makes you look at, like, okay, his body is here, but Armin is standing in front of his own body, and Zeke is playing with, like, a mound of sand.

Like...

what is happening in this moment. And this is a scene that doesn't have much dialogue. He's actually quite repeating himself a lot. But it's a slow scene in my head, at least how I read it. It breathes nicely.

Yeah.

In the middle of also literally the final fight, which is pretty intense. But it's a nice, like, let's breathe. Let's take a moment. Let's be here in this scene.

Yeah. Yeah, the tempo is interesting.

Yeah, I like it. I totally agree with you.

Do you have a favorite sequence of the visual part?

My favorite scene, it kind of spans a bunch of different settings, and it's my favorite part of the whole story, not just this volume. It is a conversation between Eren and his dad, bestie, Armin. And they go from young children to teenagers to adults. And it is what we will later learn will be the last conversation that Eren will have with Armin, and will erase his memory, and he will remember it at the end. And by the time he will remember this memory, Eren will be dead in, like, real time. He basically takes our— His friend, he takes Armin into an alternate dimension, if you will, to have this conversation with him as, like, kind of a final goodbye, and explaining, this is what I had to do. Like, this is who I am. I'm just, you know, an everyday idiot who is a coward, who just wants to protect his friends. And I am sorry, but this is the life that you will live now because I've done this choice, and you will be the hero. When you remember this conversation— I will be dead. And I just really liked seeing the friendship between the two of them evolve through time. And it's also just such a sad moment because, you know, he's dead. It's been done. The deed has been done. And by the end of it, when Armin remembers what happened, he— and he's back to reality, he's out of this alternate dimension, he snaps to, and he sees his best friend's head decapitated. And he's just crushed. So dark of a sequence. I wish I could give you a much happier sequence.

Well, there's a lot of darkness.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I could have picked, like, Mikasa and Eren hanging out at the cabin. That's a little bit nicer. Also kind of sad. I'm sorry. That was kind of grim.

So big question, how did Attack on Titan change your life?

I think it's pretty cool. I'm not like even a big fan or whatever. Um, changed my life because it introduced me to my favorite piece of art and is a story that I always come back to because I think it's a real reflection of Humanity. I think it's a beautiful story that is sad yet beautiful in how honest it is, and I love it so much that I got tattoos for it. It's my fave. Yeah.

Great answer.

Was it?

Yeah.

I feel like it was pretty mid. It was okay, but I do like it. I do, I do genuinely like it.

How would you recruit people to be as passionate about books as you are?

There's a book for everyone. If you don't like books yet, you will. You're just gonna find the book that you like. And don't worry about what other people like, right? I feel like, you know, people are all like, oh, you don't read— if you don't read books fast— I don't read books fast. I'm a slow reader. So I'm someone who has to take it back a lot. You know, I can, I can like tend to, if I'm not in the right headspace, my brain will like get distracted. Take your time. Just find the book that you like. It's like finding a therapist, you know? You can't like expect the first one to be a banger. And if it is, then that's great. Awesome. But don't give up. It's a whole medium, you know? Thank you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Is there anything else, Rachel, you think I, I need— I missed? Yeah.

What are you working on?

I'm currently, you know, promoting Best of the Best. I got this new movie coming out on Netflix. It's a dance movie. Um, so obviously in the same vein of Attack on Titan, duh. Uh, the world of collegiate Bollywood competitive dance. But yeah, that's, that's me. That's me.

When's it come out?

September 18th.

Nice. September 18th.

On Netflix.

Check it out. Awesome. Well, thank you.

Great. Thank you.

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