Marcia Kimpton on "Power vs. Force" || Books That Changed My Life

My younger brother got bullied all the time. He was gay and he had a really, really hard life. My other brother, who turned out to be my best friend, was the most popular, the most gorgeous, and he's no longer here.

You can have everything and not feel like you belong.

All of what Dr. Hawkins wants you to do is alchemize everything into love. We can measure consciousness from 0 to 1,000. 1,000 is the enlightened avatars. Christ, Buddha.

Where are you on the unconditional love? Do you have a kill list?

Do I have a kill list?

Some of the most unhappy people are the people that are focusing on themselves.

How much was this destiny, or how much was it that I co-created all of this?

Like, two things can be true. Why you didn't and could you have are two different questions, right? You're writing your own story, or it's being written for you.

Hell is not a condition imposed by a judgmental God. Hell is the final outcome of constantly choosing the negative and thus isolating oneself from love.

You create your own heaven or you create your own hell. So then the big question: how did Power vs. Force by David Hawkins change your life? Oh my gosh, um, I Please welcome to the show Marsha Kimpton.

Thank you, Chris.

So this was published in 1997. It's sold more than a million copies. So how would you describe this book, Power Versus Force?

I think the way I would describe it is the story of Dr. Hawkins and how it came to be, because basically Dr. Hawkins was a brilliant psychiatrist in New York City. And in his 30s, he basically had existential despair. He had depression and he had alcoholism. And he had a very, very successful practice. He was making a lot of money and a lot of people were listening to him and he was helping a lot of people and he was not happy. And so all of a sudden he basically got down on his knees and said, God, if you really exist, please show me. And I think he was close to atheist at that moment. And sure enough, he gets engulfed with all this amount of unconditional love and light. And the next thing you know, he said that his ego disappeared and he was in the all, all the unity of life. And he really couldn't work. He was from the Midwest after that. And very similar to Eckhart Tolle when he wrote The Power of Now, he basically sat on a bench. So he— I don't know how long it was before he could write and come up with the power versus The Course, which was his first book. And, and he saw in this illumination that science and spirituality can be merged and that he could hopefully find the seat of consciousness and basically what are we, maybe kind of the seat of the soul. And a man that I had studied many, many years, and I was asking if you had this book, Emanuel Swedenborg, a 17th century mystic who had kind of the same exact experience. He was a scientist and he had this awakening. He saw Christ and all of a sudden the science became emerging of where does the soul begin, what is consciousness? And it's the same thing with Dr. Hawkins. And I was so blown away by that story and I was given it to me by this healer and chiropractor, chiropractor of everybody in Beverly Hills. His name's Gary Shapiro. And he said, you haven't read that? And I said, no. And the next thing you know, I think it took me almost 10 years to finish because it is so profound to understand what is consciousness, what is the science where we can measure it. And he was the first person to measure, if you believe, and I do, because you have to believe consciousness.

And how is he measuring it, basically? Because he's, he's doing the, basically the muscle test, right? Which I've had doctors do that with me and I never quite understand what's going on.

So that's what's interesting in re-listening to it on audio and looking at it in preparation. I think because I so believed in kinesiology and it had done quite a lot of bit. I never questioned. But what he actually says there is that most people question. They do not believe there's a scientific way to find the seat of the soul or consciousness. And here you were wondering yourself, how is this working? And his first test is you put your arm up and you say your name and you're strong. And then you put up and he says, okay, to me, are you Chris? And it goes down.

And so now the way that it was done to me, put up your arm again, is that they were pushing on it.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah. So if you haven't done kinesiology, it basically is a way of measuring the energy in your body. And when someone pushes your hand and you have an actual truth, a truth that cannot be debated, you basically get strong. When you have something that isn't true, like, I love McDonald's. I can't stand McDonald's. I'm not saying I didn't at one point, but no longer. It goes down. Or you say, or McDonald's food is organic. Your hand goes down. And I thought what was so interesting, if you hold artificial sweetener, your hand automatically, for everybody he tested, hundreds if not thousands of patients, goes down because it's artificial. You hold something that is healthy and great, you get stronger. So that became his measurement. And he did this over a 30-year period. And then he made it into scientific analysis. And found that we can basically measure consciousness from 0 to 1,000. And 1,000 is the enlightened avatars like Christ, Buddha, Krishna. And then 500 is where there is complete unconditional love. And that means I have unconditional love for you, myself, and anything that happens to me. And that is absolutely hard. You don't get angry, you You see right through the illusion of life. And basically what happened to him was that he saw the ego disappear. It completely disappeared and he became part of the one. And so the measurement that he saw from 0 to 500, basically most of humanity lives under 200 because they are in fear, anger, or survival.

Low energy.

Right. And most of humanity is that. Then a lot of the scientists and artists are between 400 and 500. The hardest is to get past 500 to be just unconditional love. When you get to 600, you're basically really close to enlightenment.

Where are you on the unconditional love? Do you have a kill list?

Do I have a kill list? Are you saying, do I want to kill anybody?

Like an enemy list?

No, I don't. I definitely had to work on it with my ex-husband. I have to be honest.

The plaintiff?

That took me 10 years of forgiveness. It really did. But I did it. So I think it's fascinating that you ask that. I try not to think about where I am because we in our mind always destroy ourself and always wanna be better. And so I will never ask my healer what I am because that changes who you are and your perception. But I know what I want to be. I wanna be 500. I know that artists and scientists and doctors and people that are are creating really— well, we can't say all of them are doing good, but are creating a lot of good and manifestation to make this world better. They're always between 400 and 500. And I'm a filmmaker, and the whole purpose to American Abroad is to bring more light and joy in this dark world. So I'd like to believe I'm between 400 and 500. And then to get to 500, I had an incident today. You know, someone wasn't posting that I know quite well. About my book on any social media, wasn't doing anything to help me. And the first month, especially with Amazon, the algorithm, you have to get as many people looking at it. And I was just going to call him and say, goddamn it, you promised me, you said you were a close friend of mine and I am doing preparation for your incredible interview. And I went, Marcia, that's exactly what David Hawkins talks about. That once you go straight from your emotions, you're between 200 and 300. And of course we fluctuate, but I'm angry and that's below 200. And I said, you're gonna alchemize. And all of what Dr. Hawkins wants you to do is alchemize everything into love. I'm like, goddammit. I won't say his name because he's very well known. And I was like, goddammit, you know, he could get so many people looking at my movie. And I went, wait a second. He's manipulating me. He said he would. He's manipulating me. And maybe he wants me to pay him. I don't know why he's not doing it, but confronting him is lower than 200. And I said, okay, I got to go to unconditional love. I keep on wanting to say his name.

Brad Pitt.

Oh, yeah. Oh, God.

Well, you're doing it for yourself versus— some of the most unhappy people are the people that are focusing on themselves. Like there's, there's something that happens a lot to me in, in different situations, but I will inevitably have somebody that will say, well, I'm just working on loving myself. And then there's like this desperation of like, I'm just working on loving myself. And like, and I like, I'll, I'll kind of break that pattern a little bit and I'll say, well, could you explain what love is? And they go, they start off like, oh yeah, I know what love is. And then they go, And they can't explain what love is. And I'm always like, that's a dead-end road. Like, what you should probably do is just like yourself. Like, you're not so great. None of us are so great. What we get is when we give to others, we get something back. And that's love. You can't— like, it's this weird kind of thing that people are obsessed with themselves and obsessed with, like, this self, I don't know, whatever it is makes them miserable.

Well, and that's what he was getting in the seat of. And I saw this morning with this man. Brad Pitt? He was not Brad Pitt. Okay. I mean, he's in my book, but no, it wasn't Brad Pitt. But what it was is that I had to get to unconditional love because when you are—

So how do you do it though? What's the process? So Brad doesn't do the thing he's supposed to do. What is the recipe? For you to go from 2 to 500?

Okay, so I learned this through David Hawkins, and this is why it's so profound. And his latest book, Eye of the I, is almost impossible to read past 2 pages. So if I can interpret it, I mean, this is really difficult because—

oh yeah, this is a, this is a dense book.

Is you're asking me to talk about consciousness and how do we get to enlightenment, basically. And this morning I had that incident. I was really angry and really mad that this person who who said, and I perceived as a friend, wanted to post my art and knew I'm trying to do this for good. Yes, I want my art out there. I'm not about to say that there isn't a little bit of selfishness, but I'm also spreading Lion Love in it. So, and he knows how many years I've been working at this. So it was interesting. I had to do a prayer. So I had to alchemize my anger towards him not helping promote American abroad, when he said he would and he didn't keep his word. Or maybe he will in a week. He acts like he's so busy. We're all busy. He said he'd do it, do it. You've got 7 days, you didn't do it. So I had to do a prayer. I really believe in God. And Dr. Hawkins says this, he basically was an atheist and he got down on his knees and said, God, if you exist, please show me. And he was given enlightenment on the spot. A lot of people don't. That was tons of this unconditional love that basically makes you feel so much peace. So I had to think about this person and find peace in this situation.

So do you get on your knees?

Uh, no, I just think of it. And I really do believe that angels exist. So if angels exist, then I don't want to— I don't like using the word demon, but that would be the opposite. Light exists, so dark exists.

Yeah.

So if I'm going into below 200 and I want to actually be at 500, unconditional love, it's up to me asking God to help me see clearly so I'm not blind in seeing this and then alchemize that darkness into light. Because basically the darkness feeds darkness and that's what's going on in the media these days. Turn it off, end of story. And then once I got past my anger and realized I was truly angry, we have to go to our inner child, our little kid, And Dr. Hawkins doesn't talk about this that much, but you have to find when you were angry at your mom or your dad or Hollywood. I'm angry at Hollywood. It didn't recognize me. It didn't give me the opportunity I deserved. Well, I alchemized Hollywood already, and that's why I wrote the book. I alchemized this man immediately into seeing the truth is my anger is that I want him to do something. He said he was a friend and would help me. He disappointed me. He, on some level, betrayed me. He abandoned me. So I find all the emotions. I find all the emotions that had happened to me in a childhood. And I go, wait, what do I really want? I wanna live in love. I wanna live in happiness and peace. He's taking that away from me, so I'm not gonna care about him anymore. Maybe he'll call me. Maybe he will do something. I don't care. He's not in my inner group anymore. An inner group friend that's loyal would do something the first week to help you out. They would just find the time. Okay, so he's not in my inner circle. I thought he was. And then my mind keeps on alchemizing. How is it his energy that's taking me from this great day? I'm so excited to see you and I'm all of a sudden in the mire of the darkness. And I'm like, wait, this person is taking me away from the joy and excitement that I'm going to have in this interview. So it's really like sit-ups, and I don't do enough, so it's very evident. It's like a sit-up of the mind. You have to keep on retraining your mind to go from the darkness into the light. That person really is not important in my life right now and may never be. And I don't want him to be important because I would never do that, that what he did. And so I did say in a text, are you, you know, I knew he had health issues. Are you having health issues? He didn't get back to me. Maybe I'll find out, which we never know, right? Maybe he had gone to the hospital this week. Maybe he had a heart attack. I don't know. But the truth is, once something pulls you in the wrong direction, which is what he talks about, Anything 200 and below is in darkness. From 200 to 500, it's basically the shades or the ascension of consciousness to peace. And the way you get to peace is that you retrain your mind. And this used to, I want you to know this morning would've taken me like 3 days and sometimes a week to get over, 'cause this was a close friend, right? This isn't a distant person that who cares, right? What's interesting is how quickly in 20 minutes I pretty much alchemized it, saw the, I know it sounds so cliché, the illusion in it. Because basically life is only supposed to support you. It's only supposed to give you love. It's only supposed to be good. But as we know, it isn't that way at all. So how do we control our own consciousness to keep it in that state of mind? And I will tell you in writing my memoir that I went, I've always struggled to find peace and happiness. I've dealt with a lot of depression. I think most artists do, 'cause I think that's the journey. And I really found tremendous peace in writing my own memoir. And I've been saying to people, just write it even if you never publish it. Because when you write your own memoir and see your perception and, Hawkins talks a lot about this. It's all our perceptions of the situation. You start to alchemize the hurt, the rage, the anger. Everybody's life doesn't turn out perfect, even Brad's. And not that I'm happy for that.

But Brad, you could be better. You're not in the hospital. You didn't have a heart attack. Be a friend, Brad, for the love of God.

But we all thought Brad and Angie, we all rooted for them. They were incredible talent. And they are still. And we all thought they had it perfect. And then we found out even Brad and Angie don't. So basically nobody's life is perfect.

No, we're all human.

Yeah. And so the challenge is we all have this same challenge in consciousness to find happiness. And the only way we do, like I did with my memoir, is I started forgiving everybody and everything that ever happened to me. And once you start forgiving everything and you really do, you feel the forgiveness towards your worst enemy, guess what? You find happiness and joy. It just starts coming in because you've cleared out that consciousness. It's no longer in your field. I hope I answered that right.

You did. But how do you do it?

Okay. I do tons of tons of yoga and meditation. I will say, for me, that's been the journey.

What kind of meditation?

My teacher was— his name was Gary Springfield, and it was Golden Light. And it just basically is bringing the gold down into the top of the head, you know, all through the chakras and sitting there. And I had to do for— I mean, I've been doing this for 30 years. I would say I had to do a talking meditation for at least 20. I couldn't do silent meditation because my mind was racing all the time, like everybody's. So there's, there's a million meditations out there. I do always suggest the Vedic prayer, the Devi. Yeah, Devi prayer. It's on YouTube. It's free. It's a 5,000-year-old ancient Vedic prayer and it's non-denominational. I think that's really important. That's why I like the Golden Light. And, and I know, and I really do believe that Christ existed. I just think we're all the sons and daughters of God and I don't believe in religion at all. So I think it separates us. So I really love the Vedic prayer because it's non-denominational. And the second you put it on, it's a mantra that you just start quieting your mind and doing deep breathwork, which I should breathe right now. Excuse me. I have some bad allergies. And then you just— deep breathwork actually basically brings in the light of the soul of God and then your higher self, because we're all God, and then grounding it. And then me doing enough yoga because I was such a an artist that was all over the place and drank too much and smoked too much pot and all that stuff. It basically— the yoga and the meditation grounded me to find my higher self through God. But I do think the key is you have to ask God. And whatever your perception of God is, it may be nature, it may be something just grander than ourselves, but you have to say, God, please show me the way. Though it's in the Bible and it's And he talks about you have to ask. And when he was at his worst despair, as I said, existential despair, he was at the worst. I think he was thinking about committing suicide. Pretty sure that's the truth. God. And it's not always a loud voice. It was a feeling and it changed his life. And he wrote Power Versus Force.

Tell me a little bit about how you grew up. Where did you grow up?

I grew up just north of Chicago. I was born in Chicago and I'm a Midwest gal and just north, yeah, Wilmette and Glenview and went to great, great school. Northwest. Yep. Well, Northwestern was near there, but I went to New Trier and then immediately I went to Indiana University and I immediately came to LA. LA and New York were my places of living because I was an artist.

What did your parents do?

My mother was a stay-at-home mom and I grew up, well, between two households. My real dad, Bill Kimpton, he was in finance and banking, but he was constantly going broke when my parents were married trying to figure out a new invention. And he ended up eventually creating, sorry, the Kimpton Hotel chain, but not until I was 20. And then my stepfather was an entrepreneur and he actually, he created the machines for film inspection. So we could preserve all old films.

Yours?

Well, he didn't create it, but he sold all of them. Yeah.

How old were you when your parents divorced?

3 and a half.

3 and a half.

And then my dad moved to San Francisco when I was 8, so I would go out there. Yeah, so I had California influence from 8 years old on.

How, uh, how long after that did the stepdad come in?

5.

5?

Yeah.

And so you had kind of two dads in a sense.

Yeah, and I really think my stepfather raised me. My dad was— he remarried and had his new family in San Francisco. I got to know my dad a lot better when I was like an adult.

How many siblings do you have?

Well, one, one that's full between my parents.

Younger or older?

Younger.

Younger.

Oldest. And then my, uh, dad remarried and I have a stepsister along with a brother there. And then my mother remarried and she had a son and daughter.

What kind of kid were you?

Exactly the same. I like organized all the parades in the neighborhood at a young age. I just love producing at a young age. I just was the type of person— I was called Miss TV Guide because I memorized the whole TV Guide. So you— what, what's on Friday night? And I would tell everybody Brady Bunch, Partridge Family, just because I love TV and film at a young age. And I just was a producer and an artist at heart right from the beginning.

Were you popular in school?

Yes, I feel embarrassed to say that. Very popular.

Were you the cheerleader type? Yeah, you were?

Yeah. Why, why are you so amazed?

No, I'm just fascinated.

Yeah, but I was, uh, a cheerleader with guilt.

Why guilt?

Because my younger brother got bullied all the time. He was gay and he had a really really hard life. So I walked down the— it enlightened me walking down the hallway because I was really probably one of the most popular people and president of the class and the whole cliché to make sure I said hello to every single person because every person counts. And I knew my brother didn't have anybody to sit with for lunch for years or anybody has a birthday party. And so it changed my life in the sense of everybody is important.

Is he— did he, uh, turn out okay?

Yeah, shockingly enough, after going through so much adversity. And the irony of it is my other brother, who turned out to be my best friend, my dad's, um, son with my stepmother, um, was the most popular, was the most gorgeous, was the most everything. He grew up in San Francisco, and he's no longer here. He had He ended up taking his life. And, um, uh, my movie Bardo Blues, it's on Amazon, is based on our relationship and, um, trying to prevent suicide. But I have no judgment around it because nobody knows the journey he took and how hard it was. But it was ironic that he had everything and my, my other brother didn't. And, uh, my other brother's alive and thriving.

Yeah, it's, uh, fascinating. Yeah, how that works. Sometimes you can have everything and not feel like you belong.

Yeah, I did suffer years in depression, but I, I did feel very grateful that I had a great education, a great background. Um, it, you know, I do believe in the genetics. My dad, I found out later, suffered from depression. But I also believe exactly like Dr. Hawkins, that you can alchemize anything. I was depressed as an artist. I just thought it was gonna be Julia Roberts and a big Hollywood star. Not that everybody's happy as a Hollywood star, as we know. And I worked in LA and New York and I couldn't get any jobs. I couldn't get anything. And so it really left me a lot of days in depression and sadness about being rejected in this business. I didn't know that I'd have to get this old, without talking about my age, to know that it was as painful as that depression journey was. I'm able to talk about power versus force. I'm pretty sure I got finally my dream late night show out of San Francisco, and everybody in Hollywood told me, and this is 1998, "Oh, there can't be a woman in late night." And Joan Rivers had done it, and then Chelsea Handler did it later. And I was like, "Wait, I've got a great show." And I had gotten Budweiser, It was a local show. So that set me at 38 years old in a huge spiritual crisis, exactly like he talks about, the dark night of the soul. And if I had been— the journey in Hollywood had been easier, because most it isn't easy. And even when you are a big star, it's not always easy just getting the art you want out there, but it's easier. If I had, I wouldn't be able to sit here and talk to you about this because it was in this spiritual crisis that I found Emanuel Swedenborg, a Christian mystic from the 18th century who talked about the seed of the soul exactly like Dr. Hawkins. And I studied him and found out I was dyslexic in the master's program, uh, Pacific School of Religion. So I studied him for 6 years and audited because I couldn't read all the books because of my dyslexia. And there, my studies of that and Buddhism allowed me to write the movie Bardo Blues. And the whole intention with Bardo Blues as a drama is to prevent suicide. And so I think to myself, if everything had happened the way I had dreamed in Hollywood, I wouldn't have learned yoga and meditation to relieve my depression instead of alcohol and marijuana. And I wouldn't be able to sit here and talk to you about that. I live with so much peace and happiness. It got disrupted this morning. But I know how to get right back on. And I think if I hadn't suffered— and he talks about the suffering— suffering should not have to lead us to peace. But most people are suffering. Most people are not happy. And I think, well, I don't know if I would have been as happy if Hollywood had embraced me. And thus, as an artist, I created Bardo Blues, which I wrote, directed, produced, and acted in. Northern Thailand, and ChatGPT is not always right because it doesn't say that there's a woman that directed a film in Northern Thailand. And then in American Abroad, I wrote, directed, produced, acted. We go to 6 countries. We go to Turkey, Greece, South Africa, France, Portugal, Amsterdam, Netherlands. Well, Hollywood would have changed the story. So now my story, my narrative to my life is in the process of depression and being rejected by Hollywood. I found happiness and I created my own art. And I don't know if I'm always going to work outside the Hollywood system, but the Hollywood system would have changed my script. They would have changed the experience. And making these two films, which were really six films I've done, was perfect. The whole thing was happiness. Like everybody on the crew was like, this doesn't happen. This doesn't go this way normally. So maybe like, you know, rejection and sadness and depression leads to happiness.

So were you, were you depressed when the doctor recommended this?

Very depressed.

And that he saw that and was like, hey, this, this might be something you want to read.

Yeah, it changed his life. Yeah. The two healers I work with are, um, you know, I've been to many psychiatrists, many years of therapy, and none of them helped. I mean, you know, I heard myself talk, but the two healers that I worked with really base all their healing on helping people through Dr. Hawkins and the measurement. They're able to get to the frequency of wholeness and health. Yeah.

Okay, so let's kind of go through some of this, if that's okay.

Okay.

So those— the— there's tabs there.

Okay, I have to get my glasses. I know that ages me, but I'm not here to say that aging is great, but it beats the alternative than dying. And then also aging sometimes does bring wisdom.

Yeah, sometimes.

This is so cool that you have tabs in it.

Go to the first, the very first tab.

Do you want me to read it?

Yeah, I mean, it's just about everything being knowable with the, the muscle testing.

By use of the kinesiology logic. I'm not sure I'm saying that right. Testing procedure describes herein unlimited information about any subject, past or present, is universally available. But the realization that everything is knowable about anything or anyone, anywhere, at any point in time creates a first— oh yeah, first paradigm shock. It's pretty wild. That you basically, because Bruce Lipton with, why am I going blank on the name? But Bruce Lipton was basically kicked out of Harvard as a doctor for finding that everything was stored in your cells. So he's basically saying with the kinesiology, anything that happened in your childhood, he can test and say, okay, were you abused? And you're gonna be weak or strong. Were your parents loving? Weak or strong. And it's all our perception of, right, what happened to us, and it's stored in the cells. And the kinesiology will show the past, present, and even future.

And then the next, the next tab is about the collective genius.

The individual human mind is like a computer terminal connected to a giant database. Uh, the database is human consciousness itself. Of which our own consciousness is merely an individual expression, but with its roots in the common consciousness of all mankind. The database is the realm of genius because to be human is to participate in the database. Everyone, by virtue of their birth, has access to this genius. Isn't that profound? Mm-hmm. Can you see your life as it— almost like a computer program? And how the programs you've kind of edited out and taken the virus out, and how the other programs are still affecting your life and finding happiness.

Yeah, in fact, the last book that I wrote, I used that analogy of that we're running software and viruses. And—

oh really? That's so cool. So you totally understand that. So it's just another way of saying it.

It's a good analogy for us to kind of understand most of what happens to us is programmed between like 3 and 9.

Yeah.

And then everything else is like, yeah, behavioral cascade, kind of like you have all the programming set by 9 years old. Yeah.

And then are you going to break out of that program? Are you going to break out of the Matrix? Yeah. Because basically you're— we're all programmed in the computer program.

But most, most people just accept that as autopilot. I know they don't think about breaking out of it.

I know. So we're very memetic, different consciousnesses of reality, because those that see it, right, are always trying to break the program, and then those that are in it are programmed. It's that simple.

Yeah. In, in a sense, you're writing your own story or it's being written for you.

And that part, I don't know. That's the hardest part. How much was this destiny as me as an artist to get to this place, right? Or how much was it that I co-created all of this?

Okay, well, we'll jump into that because we were, we were talking about the book and, and that— what is your thought on free will?

I think we have it every day. And now that my life has found happiness and peace, not all the time, it's a minute by minute, but I can say unequivocally I'm not the same person 10 years ago or 20 years ago. Where I didn't have happiness and peace. So I find that it is free will mostly. I have to ask God, I have to become conscious of my reaction to like this person this morning not helping me promote my film. So I feel a lot of it is, but I think I didn't have any control over that free will in my earlier part of my life. It was just an emotional reaction to everything happening, and I, I didn't think I was playing victim. Because I'm not a victim type of person, but I was because I was constantly emotionally bouncing off what was happening. So on some level that was free will, but it was unconscious free will. Now I'm consciously living my life with free will. I'm really curious to know what you think about this.

I agree with what you just said. If you just shifted a little bit, though, and like, say, for example, they're probably have been people you've experienced interactions with that think what you have done is unobtainable. Like, I could never make a movie, or, you know, whatever it is, right? Like, um, and in a sense, the things that we control, like showing up, working hard, our charisma, our energy that we bring to something, our positivity, Um, you know, all of those things that are within our control have more effect on the outcome than fate.

Yeah, I absolutely believe that.

So then you can write your own story until—

but until you're aware of your own story, because what happens is a lot of the unconscious of your childhood, of that first 9 years, is playing out.

Yeah. And so that's where you gotta, like you said, the programming. You got to break the programming.

And sometimes you don't even know you're in the program until you maybe date a guy that's not really great. How could I do that? Both my fathers are pretty good people, good men. And I had to analyze why would I ever, ever date a person that would have abused me? Not necessarily physical, but emotionally. So it was interesting that you have to— how, how could— I mean, yeah, I believe in soul contracts, I believe in karma, but if I really believe in free will, why didn't I leave immediately? I saw the warnings. So it's really interesting, like two things can be true.

Why you didn't and could you have are two different questions.

Oh my God, I just got shivers.

That's right.

Cool. That's very cool.

Both of those things can be true. Now, why you didn't could be you thought you could fix them.

Maybe.

Maybe you saw something in there.

I saw a lot of good things, and I saw I wanted to save my brother. And this person was going towards suicide.

And so there's a lesson in there.

Very big.

But you could have.

But there was free will that felt like it was out of my control. But I totally believe that once you heal everything, I mean, healing everything in one lifetime is almost impossible. But once you heal enough, you see the patterns that you're going— I can't— you can't save anybody's life. So why would you spend time with someone that is emotionally abusing you, even if you think you can save them? But the little kid in me or the older sister does. But I just think it's really interesting. We all have free will, but some part of us is unconsciously playing out that's keeping us in situations that are not good.

Yeah, but I think when you're young, like, in my personal experience, when I was young, I had a lot of empathy. And so I believed in people more than they believed in themselves, or I wanted something for people that they didn't want for themselves. Right. But I still had the free will of not doubling down on, on a bad relationship or a bad friend. Right.

Right.

Like, yeah, I still had the option. And later on in life, I wouldn't make those same mistakes. And, and in a sense, talking about energy is those were low energy people.

And we don't see that in the beginning. We just see the outside.

I didn't see it because I was low energy.

So he talks about the mirror. Yeah. And that we will mirror what we need to heal and what we don't see. So you're saying that so well, we don't see until we raise our frequency on this ladder. If you believe in what he's saying, right? You're not going to— it's— I don't know if I like the word law of attraction, I like more what you said is that you change your frequency and you heal yourself, then all of a sudden everything around you seems to be at that frequency.

Now, the fuse that you light that writes the story and flips it is intentionality. So just for example, when I was young, I grew up very poor. I didn't want to be poor, so I was very intentional about not being poor. So I worked harder than anybody else. I showed up and I stretched myself and put myself in situations that nobody else would.

I moved.

I did a bunch of things because my intentionality was writing my story. So if you take intentionality and, you know, internal locus of control, controlling the things that you can control, like your work ethic, you know, how you show up, who you surround yourself with, all of those things. I do believe the combination of intentionality and that are what write a story.

I absolutely agree with you, and I love how important that intention— you have to set it every day in order to have that great day, because we have a choice between heaven and hell at every moment. But this is what I'll tell you, that I worked harder than anybody in my life in Hollywood between New York and LA, and I could not get a job. So it wasn't necessarily intention and hard work. What I didn't do for myself, my story, my movie, is that I didn't realize that I was really supposed to get a deeper connection with God. I was supposed to surrender to my art. And to understand my storyline so I could write movies. And that in writing and directing and producing and acting, most people don't do it because it's quite hard to do all of them. I was supposed to learn those skills by the rejection of Hollywood. So what I think is so cool about what you're saying is that you set the intention, but there has to be a certain amount of grace and allowing and surrender. And I wouldn't do that. It was just like, I'm gonna work harder than everybody in this business. I'm going to— and it didn't happen. And it was only through exactly what happened to him, a huge spiritual crisis. I finally put my hands up and I surrendered and I said, God, tell me what to do. And at that moment was the building of finding happiness for me and my personal story. And now I set the intention every day, but I allow the universe to kind of guide me in finding what am I to do today.

Let's go to, uh, Page 70.

This is so fun. Can I just thank you? This is so fun. It's so deep. It's so what I love to talk about. I just— it's so cool that you understand all this. Okay. Page 70. An important element of chaos theory, which is helpful in understanding this evolution of consciousness, is the law of sensitive dependence on initial conditions. This reference to the fact that a slight variation over a course of time can have the effect of producing a profound change.

So that's the developmental cascades, right? When you're a kid, if you, uh, have a situation where your needs aren't met and you feel neglected later on in life, it's that butterfly effect. It compounds. And, you know, you build a city around this thing later on and it controls your life. Yeah, it controls you.

And so many people can't get out of the frequency, the vibration, or the program.

They just think trauma is even worse. Like, if you have real trauma as a kid, like, it's really hard.

I know.

Yeah, yeah. But low self-esteem, feeling like you don't belong, you know, all of that.

Yeah.

Has that butterfly effect.

Yeah.

Right?

You really picked a really amazing passage.

Okay, 98. Shame.

That's a good one. I mean, that ruled me for many years and it rules a lot of people. A lot of people that overdrink, and I have no, I love my wine, so don't get me wrong, but I really have control over it because I don't have the shame that I used to have. Okay, so just so we understand, we have a frequency measurement scientifically, 0 to 1000. And Dr. Hawkins says this is energy.

1000 is Jesus. Like, most of us are in the middle.

Yeah. Oh, no, not most of us. Most of us are below 200. And the people that are in the arts and science and making a good life And it doesn't mean necessarily money, 'cause you can have a lot of money and still be at 200. It's really about your manifesting and on some level contributing. And that could be something so small as making just pretty socks, you know? And I don't mean that as small, like a chef is better or you're better. I don't mean that. It means that your contribution to society is your contribution. And your vision and your art, and you're enjoying your life. So it's between 400 and 500. So this is energy level 20, shame. The level of shame is perilously proximate to death, which may be chosen out of shame as conscious suicide, or more subtly, subtly elected by failure to take steps to prolong life as a passive suicide. And that is really You know, and I know alcoholism is— has a genetic component of a disease, but it's like drinking too much. You're just slowly committing suicide through the shame that you're really carrying. And then 109, energy level 350, right up there. Acceptance. At this level of awareness, a major transformation takes place with the understanding that one is that one is oneself the source and the creator of the experience of one's life. Taking such responsibility is distinctive of this degree of evolution, characterized by the capacity to live harmoniously with the forces of life. All people at levels below 200 tend to be powerless and see themselves as victims at the mercy of life. This stems from the belief that the source of one's happiness or the cause of one's problems is out there. And enormous jumps takes place by taking your own power. It is completed at this level with the realization that the source of happiness is within oneself, which is exactly what you were talking about, intention, and about making your own life. And I think that you really said it. Differently, but just as well.

And I, I do think— I know a lot of people, when you talk about this sort of stuff, they shut down because they don't understand it. But when you really pay attention to your energy— and you can pay attention to your energy just by how you affect others— it is a good measurement of how much responsibility you're taking for your life and the others around you. Because if you're taking responsibility for the others around you, you're projecting love and positivity. You're trying to uplift them. You're not trying to bring them down. And that's really kind of, in a sense, what you were talking about with art too, is like, you could be rich and be bringing people down. Money just amplifies who you are. Exactly right. If you're a dick, you're a dick with money.

Dick, you're a dick, right? But you're never getting above 200. You're miserable.

You know, there's that chef out there that when they put a plate of food in front of you, it changes your soul. Like, it affects you in a way, you know, and you feel better and you feel the love of the love of the food and the craftsmanship and everything behind it.

Exactly. Wow. Yeah.

So it is locus of control in a sense of taking responsibility and You know, believing that life is happening for you, not to you.

Exactly. And some people understand, some people don't.

Okay, 121.

May take you a thousand lifetimes to finally figure that out. The energy field that is calibrated for an individual at birth only increases on the average by about 5 points. That really blew me away. Like, if I'm at 400, I'm probably only going to get 4:05 unless you work at it all day long. That an individual's level of consciousness is already in effect at birth is a sobering fact with profound implications, and consciousness itself, in its expression of human civilization, evolves slowly indeed through numerous generations. He really believes in reincarnation, and I do too. Do you believe in it?

I don't know.

Isn't that interesting? Because he's saying you come in right at wherever you learn from all your other lives, and then you really only move this much in that life, which is kind of scary because you think about all those lives out there that are not living well.

Yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't feel connected to another life. I feel connected to my childhood. I feel connected to my genetics. I definitely can feel trauma from family. I can't feel beyond that.

So why do you understand this profound book where someone else wouldn't?

What do you mean?

Well, you understand these concepts right away. I mean, you couldn't have this interview this way. So there are people that could have read that book and not understand a lot of this, but you really do. I mean, granted, you're a thinker and you want to understand and you're going to push yourself to understand, But you said someone— you can tell people this about intention and victimhood, but they don't understand it. So do you have one life and you only come in to understand your consciousness of that life?

Well, I don't feel like I'm tapping into another life, but I do feel like I'm tapping into an overall human consciousness. So I believe it's possible. But it's like when people say, do you believe in aliens? It's like, I believe it's possible. I never met one, right? So I just don't— I don't know. Yeah, but I'm not— I'm not opposed to it.

How can we really know? I know that I feel like I've been there before.

Well, it's the same thing with talking to people that have passed away. Like, I have many people that I believe and respect that say they've talked to people in the afterlife. I never have.

I definitely have. So yeah, yeah.

So I don't know, like, right?

So you have to have the experience to know for sure.

But it's not that I don't believe.

Exactly.

I would love to have the experience, you know.

Yeah, no, you don't want to start contacting you like me.

I'd love to talk to my grandpa. Oh, um, 121.

No, we did that. Oh, 130.

130.

Uh, the moral code thus functions as a rationalized exploitation of the life energy of the masses through a calculated distortion of values. The illusion proffered— sorry, this is such an intense book, it's not easy to read in front of cameras— is the more hellish one's life, the more heavenly will be one's rewards. This distorted coupling of pleasure with sufferings has produced a moral perverse social milieu in which pain becomes associated with pleasure. In this atmosphere, the extreme alternation of suffering and euphoria that typifies addiction becomes at least provisionally tenable in a deadly antisocial game of winning and losing the forbidden high.

And so in a sense, we romanticize suffering and we believe that you have to suffer to get anything.

Exactly.

Which creates guilt in a way. It's an odd thing that I contend, and this is my kind of thought on this. It's an odd thing because eliminates leverage from the equation.

Meaning that if you don't suffer, you won't have that happiness.

No, saying that you have to suffer to get something eliminates leverage, because if you have leverage, you don't have to suffer, right? Like, if I have money, I can buy something. I don't have to suffer. I have leverage. If I have connections and I want to do something, I have leverage. But most people want to suffer, and it puts them in this thing where they believe that they have to suffer in order to get anything, which ends up being this kind of like doom loop of never really accomplishing anything. Because, and I think in a sense, people feel like they ultimately don't deserve the thing they want.

I think I agree with that. I don't think I quite understand leverage, meaning that you have the money, right? Then there wouldn't be any suffering in trying to get the good.

But the leverage is the money.

It's so interesting. I've never—

but the connections are leverage. The knowledge is leverage, right? Like, if you had never made a movie before, you don't have a lot of leverage. You got to suffer. Now you've made movies, you have knowledge, you know how to get from point A to point B without the suffering.

Yes.

And you have the connections and you can call a cinematographer. Right.

I can make a movie and I don't think—

And so as we get older, there should be less suffering because we have leverage in knowledge and connections and finances.

I mean, I love— you're expanding my mind. I never thought of it that way. I do know that I wish I had suffered less, but then I wouldn't have the confidence of knowledge of the kind of peace and happiness. And I can say unequivocally, I know how I got here. I do think that unconsciously we are taught that the only way to achieve something is that you have to suffer it.

Yeah, it's a default setting.

It's a default program and it's completely wrong. And I like the way, as hard as that is to read, that don't think that anymore. Take it out of your psyche. God actually wants you to have a great life. Life can be great and let it be great.

Yeah, and see failure as leverage. You're learning something.

Learning knowledge.

It's not an indictment.

It is not.

It's not feeding this, this need for pain and this need for, you know, attention. And get— like, there's just this heaviness that some people have with, with that, where they're like carrying across, like the martyr syndrome. Like, I'm working so hard and, oh, poor me. And, you know, and it's like Well, come on, find the leverage.

I love France. I got to live there for a year in the south of France. Let's tell the whole culture of France that, because they love to suffer the conversation of what it is.

Um, 191.

Successful solutions are based on the powerful principle that resolution occurs not by attacking the negative, but by fostering the positive. Recovery from alcoholism cannot be accomplished by fighting intoxication, but rather by choosing sobriety. I love that.

It's just a little shift in perspective.

It's such a great—

stop fighting and shift, right?

Right. And but I also think you have to get to the source of why you're drinking, because deep down inside, your body and your mind and your soul really wants to feel healthy and great. And it doesn't mean— I love a French burgundy. I mean, I love wine, so for me it's my kind of battle of heaven and hell all the time. But I've just— it's not much a battle anymore because I like feeling good and I like being clear and I like being healthy. So you have to get to the bottom of why did I— why was I ever overdrinking, or why was I drinking as much? So I think it's not just being positive, but I love the way he says it. 222, my favorite numbers. My birthday's 12/22. It's really literally are my favorite numbers. When inspired, the person of genius may work 24 hours a day to realize a solution while it is still fresh in its mind. These periods of intense activity are interspersed with intervals of apparent stasis that are actually intervals of fermentation, a necessary part of the creative process. Therefore, the personality of the genius sometimes seems to incorporate polar extremes. Geniusness understands, or understand, the need for creating a space for ideas to crystallize. The stage is often set by a complete distraction. Creativity occurs under the appropriate inner, not outer, circumstances. I love that because I'm an artist, and I have to say, one of the most profound conversations was that I believe I wanted to get to the bottom of understanding Sean Penn and Eddie— Eddie Vedder, who I love, from Pearl Jam. They were on Charlie Why am I going blank on the name? Charlie Rose. Charlie Rose. Loved his interviews. And they talked about this nonstop in the sense of how do we get— especially Eddie trying to do the perfect soundtrack for Into the Wild, how he had to sit with the movie and let it just ferment. But it went really quick. I think he did the whole soundtrack in 2 weeks. And I find the exact same. Process, and I think every artist does, is that you have to— you have this idea and then you have to kind of walk away from it and just let— if I see it as the divine— come in and say, oh, you need to do it this way or do it that way and explore it. And it ferments, but— and it crystallizes. And then it's really the artist's journey to decide, oh, should I edit the movie this way or should I do it this way? Should I write the script this way. So the artist is kind of like Michelangelo in front of a piece of marble. As he's chipping, he's figuring out with the divine, how is that sculpture going to be? And that's the same with any kind of art. So I love that you picked that passage.

Do you call that the muse?

You mean the divine is the muse? No, the divine is interpreter. The divine is the person that I have. I did not write Bardo Blues. I did not write it, it wrote me, and I heard it. And then Anthony Taylor, my co-writer in this one, he rewrote the whole thing to make it better so the movie would be a better, more entertaining. The muse often for me, the guy that I was not even dating, I just was attracted to, he became the muse that I could hang out with him and create the script with him. And not knowing that, you know, he turned out to be an asshole and, you know, and used my car and got $8,000 worth of tickets. And I mean, just like, I still look back like, how did I do that? And he was the muse to Bardo Blues. He— because of meeting him, I wanted to write the script with him. He didn't get any credit. He's gone. And then the Divine came in, and then Anthony Taylor made the script so much better.

So yeah, how did he work as the muse though? Was he eye candy?

Yeah, he was very smart, very talented actor, uh, very, very talented guy. But you know, I— well, I— without talking about him being an asshole, I think, um, I think this business destroys you if, if you don't, if you don't find a way to deal with the artist's journey and accept yourself. It's really a business about a lot of rejection, and I think it destroys a lot of people. And he was one talented guy, but he was my muse for Bardo Blues. American Broad came out of COVID I'm like, I am traveling the world the second I get out of here. I am making a— what do I want to be? I want to be Anthony Bourdain. I want to be a travel reporter. I've dated a lot of young guys. I'm going to just take all my experiences with these young guys and put it into one. The guy that I really should date, the guy's conservative. He's not rock and roll. And then I'm going to show a movie that's about those first 3 months. And often I don't make it through the first 3 months, mostly because I'm the whack job. So I make the whole movie about those first 3 months. Like, would I stay with you? No, I wouldn't. And he— the guy who plays my boyfriend is kind of like, oh my God, how am I going to put up with this one? Woman. So that's how I wrote it. But again, I— there was no muse. COVID was the muse on some level. COVID was the one. You are not going to confine me. You're not going to keep me from traveling. I'm going to write a great— well, it was a TV series and then became a movie. I'm going to write a movie. And then it was Brian Gross, who plays my co-actor, who— I mean, I, I can write for days, and they're just— the scripts are so long. He, like Anthony Taylor, came in and then made it much better and concise and funnier and more interesting.

That's fun. Let's jump ahead to 300.

Could talk to you all day. You're going to have to kick me out of here.

I was trying to think what kind of wine we have in the—

Merceau. Okay, I have 262. We're skipping 300. Okay, 300. Otherwise we will be here until the evening. Expediency is never an adequate justification. If it is wrong to kill another human being, that principle can allow no— can allow no exception, regardless of how emotionally appealing a construct may be used to justify the exception. Thus, a society that condones capital punishment will always have a problem with murder. Both are the products of the same level of perception. The murderer, the killing of the victim is also a justifiable exception. What do you think?

I'm curious what you think. I don't know, it's a—

I absolutely don't believe in capital punishment, um, even though I don't like the idea you pay for a murderer. Then that murderer rapes or kills my daughter, I think I would be a little different.

That's what I was gonna say, like, uh, Kelsey Grammer sat here and talked about his sister.

So I started to watch the beginning today. That looks so interesting. I can't wait to watch.

But it's hard not to be pro Cap, like, yeah.

So that's the way I always answer it.

But he is right.

Like, it's completely right.

It's a trade. I, I think that, um, you know, my, my background is business, right? In a world of human culture, you have to have consequences. And having capital punishment saves lives. Because if you know that you could lose your life for killing somebody, there's going to be less murders.

Interesting. I don't think the person's thinking about that when they're murdering. But that's an interesting point.

The, the purpose of it is as a, you know, as a check, like, hey, yeah, there's a consequence here, right? Because consequences are the controllers of chaos. If you don't have a murder line and there aren't consequences, you would have like, you would have murdered somebody. You would have murdered Brad Pitt today.

I would not have murdered Brad Pitt.

You know what I mean? Somebody cuts you off in traffic.

If you put gum. You can chop— they could chop off your hand. Or that's actually in the Middle East in certain countries. But no, the consequences really do make a more civil society.

Yeah. And so there's that part of it. I mean, there's— these sort of things are complicated. I don't know that I can just come out and tell you how I feel because I also could change my mind. Kelsey Grammer kind of changed my mind. That was very emotional. Dark and there are dark people and low energy. And so, yeah, it's complicated, but I like how he says it.

He's saying that if you kill someone, you cannot kill another person for that reason.

He's right.

He's right with the actual absolute truth.

I like the way he worded it.

Yeah. Because it's complicated.

It's a thing to be debated. It shouldn't be taken lightly. Oh, no.

Oh, no. Again, If it happened to my daughter, it'd be a totally different discussion. Yeah, because I don't want to believe in capital punishment.

Okay, 312.

Wisdom tells us that one worships either heaven or hell and will eventually become the servant of one or the other. Hell is not a condition imposed by a judgment God, a judgmental God, but rather the inevitable consequence of one's own decisions. Hell is the final outcome of constantly choosing the negative and thus isolating oneself from love and truth.

I love that. You just— you create your own heaven or you create your own hell. Exactly.

And that's what Bardo Blues is a little bit about. I think it's so profound because I lived so much of my life in hell and didn't know it until I reached heaven. I would have joyous moments and friends and great times and great trips and great art, all these great things. But the internal mind was creating hell for me. And then I started to control it. And I realized after that, like I said, I can alchemize and get myself out of almost anything and find the love in it and find the good in it and let it go. That's when I start to live in heaven on earth. And it's so true and it's so hard to do because I think most of us have these old patterns of staying in our own— the place that we only know until we work hard to get into a place. Everybody wants to live with peace and happiness, but they don't know how. Mm-hmm.

And they continue doing the same thing every day, expecting a different result, right?

Well said. That's perfect.

But at the end of the day, you do control your perspective. And that's what he's saying there is like every— your perspective.

Your perspective is actually the key to your happiness. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So then the big question, how did Power Versus Force by David Hawkins change your life?

Oh my gosh. I have to figure out a simple answer for that. I walk— when I really understood it, because it took a long time to understand it, I walked around as if like I had just done mushrooms. I have to be honest, and I love mushrooms, but I don't do it on a regular basis. I'm walking around and I could start to see the vibrational frequency of every human being I interacted with. And it was like, oh my God, they're at 200. Oh my God, they're at 400. I, you know, rarely meet anybody at 500 or 600. So all of a sudden, once you can see it, you have so much more compassion. I had so much more compassion for people that didn't understand that they were in this frequency place and they didn't know how to get out of it. So that's how it changed. It changed my whole life completely. I live my life completely different because of that book.

Isn't it interesting that the more we know, the more empathy we have?

Yeah. Well, you hope that— that isn't that what makes life as you get older? As you may find some things not great about aging, that's the most amazing part about getting older. Yeah, you do get wiser.

When I was younger, I was very sure and judgmental on things.

Be very judgmental. And then I realize I'm really judging myself, and then you're not having compassion or empathy towards the person. Um, and you know, again, everybody could be nicer or better. It's again, you could handle situations, the outside world better. Again, turn off the media. It's the number one thing. But the truth is, once you understand exactly what you just said, less judgmental, compassion, empathy, your life is so much happier because you're not walking around doing that.

Yeah. Like you said, you're doing it to yourself. In a sense. Well, I love it that you picked this book. You told me earlier your second choice would have been—

Oh, well, The Power of Now with Eckhart Tolle. And you said you have a lot of guests say that, which I think it has been the bridesmaid many times, which is interesting. Wild. Yeah. The pain body. Once I learned how to find the pain body and not react to everything, it changed my life and I found happiness.

So if this was number 1, that's number 2. What would number 3 be?

Oh God, outside of my own memoir. Funny. Um, God, I wasn't prepared for that because I, again, I don't read as much as— To Kill a Mockingbird changed my life. I love that book.

Yeah, that's a great answer.

Yeah, who doesn't love that book? It was profound.

Was, was this, uh, Freeing to write this?

Was it free?

Freeing.

Freeing. But it was the most painful thing I've ever done. I just could not stand almost every minute of it, but I was determined to do it. I didn't realize that my whole life would be happier and freer once I basically did what Power Versus Force alchemized everything and found forgiveness. But I felt the need mostly for women because they only get 10% of the jobs in Hollywood. You know, they'll get makeup job and, you know, acting. But as a director, we get 90% go to men. I thought if I could tell women to never give up and just do it, we will have more women directors. Didn't know that when I wrote that, that this is a book for everybody about transcending all obstacles, no matter what happens to you. Basically, Power Versus Force. I had read that by the time I did that. And that you can alchemize anything, any trauma, anything, any disappointment. And by writing it down and then forgiving each person in your life and the life that you co-created, right, that you didn't know consciously, you can be freed. And after I wrote it, I now have done two editions since other things have happened since then. I was so free, but I was drinking a lot of Mai Tais in walking I'm at Waikiki Beach doing it. Like I'm at the Duke's Bar in Waikiki Beach, 'cause I do love Waikiki. It's just, I love Hawaii and I love the beach. There's too many people. Yes. My daughter always goes, "Why do you wanna go with this many people?" So I'd sit at Duke's Bar. I'd wait until like, I'd try 4 o'clock, but sometimes it'd be 2 o'clock. You know, I'm starting at 9, right, right, right. And everybody's around me. I'd see all these people. People and they don't— they're not looking at me and I'm probably right. Okay, 2 o'clock, I made it. Let me get the mai tai. I drink a mai tai and make it to 5, and if I ever had that second mai tai, which was to medicate all the hard things that I had to read and rewrite, I couldn't write anything. I mean, I was like, I was out to lunch. So, um, yeah, it was— I— it was really freeing is the answer, and that's a long answer, but It was very painful. And I suggest everybody to write their memoir. Have you done that?

No.

You were in one. You would probably have a really interesting life that people— I don't know you that well, just met you, but my, my intuition says that people would really get a kick out of your mind. But you have this great show.

So, you know, it's funny is every time I write a book, I write a bunch of chapters that are stories about myself, and then in the end I cut them.

So you are starting to write this?

I have them. I have a bunch of them that sometimes I'll go back and I'll be like, oh, this is okay. Like, but I always feel like it's too much about me. Like, and it's not enough. My intention with the book is the, the reader. And sometimes I feel like talking about myself messes up that dynamic a little bit. Well, it's just too long-winded.

I tried to make it— I mean, you have to have an editor, but I tried to make it funny and I tried to make it—

Yeah, but I don't have your personality. You have a great personality. I don't know if I'm the best in my life. I write very serious, kind of dark.

Okay.

But it is therapeutic.

Kind of Nietzsche. Okay.

A little dark, but it is therapeutic for sure.

It— I, I think it changes your life, like journaling almost, or whatever. I think everybody should do it. So it changed— I'm very free since I wrote that.

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