Motivating Employees & Screening Employers with Michelle Elrod

Welcome, everybody, to Service Drive Revolution. Today we're going to answer your questions. Remember, if we answer your question on the show.

The number is 8333 Ask SDR. We will send you some swag. And we have two great questions today. Interestingly enough, one of the questions isn't from anybody in automotive. He's running a tattoo shop. But I think we have some carryover from business outlaws and fans of business outlaws. Listen to this show. And I have have called in reinforcements for this question.

Somebody who was a very celebrated speaker at our last Top Dog event and just an overall smart badass, Michelle Elrod. She's the director of strategic learning and organizational experience experience initiatives at Cal Poly Pomona.

How's it going, Michelle?

I'm doing great. How's everything. How's everything going for you guys? Are you. Are you back at work and business as usual now?

Yeah, everybody's vaccinated. I think hopefully it opens up. You're in Orange county, right?

I live in Riverside, but Pomona is like LA county, so we are still working from home because we're in the, like, strictest. Oh, you're LA County. But we're higher education, so there's so many rules and things have to be put in place. But we just started, like, the repopulation strategy, so it's like a small city. So it's not like, oh, we have a few employees. I mean, with students, staff, faculty. There's about 40,000 students. There are 40,000 people on campus at any given moment. So we have to take, like, lots of care and consideration. But we're getting closer. But I mean, I'm not going to. I don't miss the commute, so.

Yeah, this is probably been fun working from home, right?

Yeah, I mean, it has. I mean, there's times when I'm like, man, I need to be with my team. I feel like Zoom is so like just zoom. There's just, there's something to be said about in person connection. So that part's a little frustrating. But, you know, as far as being able to be there for my kids games and take them to and from school and so taking my dogs on walks, they didn't even know what a walk was. And now they're like, where's my walk? They expect it.

They're entitled.

Yeah, they're so entitled. Like this morning I was running late because my sixth grader promoted and then I had to bring donuts to the class. So I was like running all around and I didn't have time to take them on the walk, and they're just following me around like, what are you doing? Like is walk time.

Come on.

Exactly.

That's funny. So I appreciate you coming on and helping us with this, but we thought, hey, this is a great question for Michelle to help us, and you bring some. Some amazing insight. So let's. We're going to play the question, and then we'll kind of. We'll talk about it.

I'm actually not a car guy. I manage a tattoo shop. And I was wondering if, you know, in the modern age, when we're trying to hire new people, millennials nowadays are more concerned about quality of life and less about money. So we have an incentive program to try where people can earn more. But if money isn't appealing, how do you attract younger people to work for you? By using that angle. Thanks. Love the show. Been a huge fan. Saw you in business. Outlaws as well. That's how I found you. Well, have a great day.

So what do you think about that, Michelle?

Well, I think that that's a very fair and valid question. And even within the context of the pandemic, I mean, we have all changed to an extent. I recently heard a quote that really resonated with me. It was from an unknown author, but it said that we've all weathered the same storm, but we're not in the same boat. And so.

That really resonated with me. You know, some people really use the pandemic as an opportunity to find a new job or to just, you know, relax and get a tan by their pool while other people were trying to just fill the holes of their sinking boat and figure out where they were going to get their next meal. And so that just completely resonated with me. But I think it applies to this question because we have to take that into consideration. We are all coming back different in some way, shape or form. Whether it's for the better or for the worse, we are coming back different. And so the things that engage us might be different as well. And although money may not be a motivating factor for some, being able to have certain experiences probably motivates people to work. And so usually you need money to be able to do those things. But it's more than that because we can look at specific generations, but each person has a different experience with their world and therefore are going to be motivated by different things. And so what I would say to that is, first and foremost, it's really important to understand.

Some of the commonalities that come out of all generations. If we have to spend our time at work. However, whether you're working a 40 hour job or it's part time, or you're working 60 hours a week, we have to spend a significant amount of our life working. And so it's important that people understand why they're doing what they're doing. And if you're the leader of that group of people or if you are the owner of that shop, it's really important to make sure that you understand what type of experiences your employees need and want. Because ultimately their experience will impact how they feel about your organization. And how they feel about your organization will dictate what they actually do. Right. So if you need them to upsell customers, if that's the angle that you're going for, if they don't feel connected to your workplace in some way, shape or form, they're not going to feel very inclined to do that. If they don't understand the purpose of your organization, they're not going to feel really motivated to be able to do what it is that you want them to do. And ultimately that will impact the results that you get. And so when you think about what motivates an employee and recognize that it's different for every person, it's really the job of the leader or the business owner to learn about that, to understand what drives people to perform. And you do that by learning about them, understanding what they hope to get out of the organization that they're working for, understand what they need to have happen in order for them to get what they want to get out of that organization. Because those are the things that, that make people feel either connected or disconnected. And if you have an employee that's disconnected, they're not going to be motivated to do the things that you want them to do. So then you have to go down another path. Whether it be terminating the employee or writing the employee up, you have to go down a path that will make people feel even worse about the organization. So it's always important to get that information on the front end. So that way you know what you need to do as a leader or as a business owner and to motivate that employee. And then they know what they need to do in order for them to be satisfied at their employment.

Yeah. So like, if I think that.

A couple things are missed, and I've been in industries and markets where the employees weren't necessarily motivated by money, but they were motivated by having a clear career path and having a boss that was genuinely interested in them and their career path. And so like In a lot of studies that I've read, one of the reasons for turnover in the first two years of employment is they didn't see a clear career path. And that comes up before money. Money is like fourth or fifth on the list. And so you know them, them not believing that the, that their boss or the owner of the company is vested in them personally, as far as this is somewhere where they could grow and grow in the sense of what they think is important for growth. Right? Like if you're working in a tattoo shop, maybe your ambition isn't to be a tattoo artist, maybe it's to own a tattoo shop. And so it could be different. And understanding that, and then also understanding that if you can create a scenario where that work becomes a part of their identity, then then you have them, right? So if you're running a tattoo shop or something where you're creating scenarios where they can post images on their Instagram or on their TikTok or their social media and they get more likes and then that becomes a part of their identity, because everybody likes recognition and comments and likes. So if they're putting something out there and they're getting recognized in a positive way for that, they're. Then that will become a part of their identity and then they will want to have more of that. And so I think that as far as industries go, part of marketing now is experiences and creating scenarios where customers can take pictures and post and share and, you know, providing opportunities for them to get attention in the social media realm is just as important for customers as it is for employees in a lot of ways. But that's generational, right?

Yeah, it can absolutely be generational. You know, if you're, if you're hiring someone that doesn't fall into the Gen Z or the Millennial category, they might not be very interested with sharing their experiences with the world. But either way, when people leave your place of employment, they're talking about you. So the question you have to ask yourself is, what are they saying and what do you want them to say? And are creating the experiences that work, that align to the things that you want them to say when they leave your place of business? We've changed, and people that fall into some of the older generations think that they can do what they did 25, 30 years ago and get the same result. And unfortunately, you can't. People don't respond to authoritative dictatorships anymore. They will look for something else, and then they'll tell everyone why they looked for something else. And so it's really important to make sure that we take more of a collaborative approach and ask people for their opinions and ask people what they think as you are making decisions as the business owner. Because when you get their feedback and their buy in, they feel like that they're more than just your employee. Right. They're more than just the results that they push out. They actually are a significant contributor to the direction in which the organization goes. And so some of the older generations, it's hard for them to wrap their brain around that because it takes a little bit more time. It's easier. It feels like it's easier as a leader or a business owner to say, I need you to do this, I need you to do it now. And if you don't, this is what's going to happen. And it feels like that's easier to do. But as a result of taking that approach, you have higher turnover, you have people that don't have good experiences, you have people that are leaving your organization and telling everybody along the way what they feel about you and your place of employment. And so it's so important that even though it feels like it takes more time to have that collaborative approach within your organization, even though that feels like, man, that takes a lot of time, you reap the benefits on and on as a result of doing that. So taking that time in the front end significantly reduces the amount of time that you have to put in the back end. And now you have an employee that not only is having great experiences, which naturally, when you have a great experience at work, it's going to increase how motivated you are to go there. But in addition to that, you have an employee that's sharing their experiences with other people, which now makes you have more positive brand recognition as a result of that.

Yeah, I think too, as an employer, it's important to understand where the, where they are on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So, for example.

I was talking about this yesterday with my team and we were talking about in Canada, this client we had had sponsored a technician from the Philippines and moved them over, got them a visa and provided them with a job in Canada. And so when you, when you think about an employee that lived in the Philippines and the basic needs of shelter and food and all that are a struggle, and they come over to Canada and they now have security, they can provide shelter, food, and also move their family over eventually and citizenship, and that they're on the lower end of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and it's very simple. And they tend to be a more loyal employee because their basic needs are very simple. But, but you talk about some of these younger kids that still live at home, they still live with mom or dad, they don't really have bills and they're higher on Maslow's hierarchy of needs where they're looking for fulfillment, they're not looking for just basic food and shelter. And I think that's compounded with the, you know, the extension of unemployment benefits, the checks the government's been giving out, you know, those things to some degree. Affected people aren't in a panic and just trying to pay their bills and trading their time and effort for money. They're looking for fulfillment. And so that's something you want to really understand in the interview in the pre hire dance that we do is where is this person on just the basic hierarchy of needs? Because sometimes for support positions I just want somebody who really just wants to pay for their rent and wants to eat more than they're looking to me for spiritual fulfillment in a sense. And I, I, I would be curious what you think, Michelle too. As far as our culture where less and less people are going to church, less and less people have a spiritual aspect of their life as far as organized religion and they're looking for their spirituality and that fulfillment and in their job and in their day to day activities and not so much in an organized religion as they climb that hierarchy of needs. You know, just the basic trading time for money as a job is less and less appealing to those younger generations when they're living it, like I said, living at home for longer and they don't, they don't have to do that.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting because my, I have a, an 18 year old daughter and she landed a full time job. It was a, it was a great job. It was a great little gig. It was giving her experience in the healthcare field which is, you know, she's a full time student going through the nursing program. So I recognize how stressful that can be being a full time student. But you know, again, it's like cry me a river. I did it. And also I wasn't living at home, so you're not going to get sympathy in this department. No, but, but I had to recognize even as a parent that everybody is living their own reality. And so to me it might not seem like it's such a bad gig as she's experiencing full time employment and trying to make sure she makes certain grades so she could get into the nursing program. I mean she was significantly stressed out. Right. So she would come home every day and just say, I'm so stressed out. And so I think that just because we don't relate to someone and maybe our experience was harder or different, so it's harder for us to.

Have compassion, I think that it's still important to recognize that even if it's not your reality, that's still their reality. I mean, that's the reality that they're living in. So.

When people are moving away from maybe not as many people going to church and people wanting to find more purpose in their work, I guarantee you that she would have stayed employed if there was more of a purpose driven mission and she recognized how she was impacting that organization. But too often than not, especially at entry level positions, we just need to, we want people to push out work and we don't take the time to make sure people understand the bigger picture of why they're doing something. And so Simon Sinek is a fantastic author and speaker and he talks a lot about how people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And so if you can't articulate that, and he uses a lot of examples in his book, he talks about how when the Walmart founder passed away and his son took it over, all of a sudden the why became very fuzzy and the Walmart organization as a whole was impacted by that. So people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And so it's one thing to understand why for yourself, but you have to be able to articulate that to the consumer. And that can be very difficult to do because the part of the brain that is associated with emotion and does not contribute to language. And so it's very difficult to tell people what is your why, what is your purpose? And then to be able to articulate that purpose to the employees that will help you to serve and fulfill that purpose. And then to take it a step further and make sure that the people that are choosing you over another tattoo shop or over another service dealer shop, when they're choosing you, they will go out of their way to choose you over and over again if they understand your why. And so it's really important that you understand as a business owner, what is my why? Like, why am I doing this? What's the point? Why did you get out of bed this morning? Those are questions you should be asking yourself as a business owner. And then how do you articulate that and get other people to rally around and get excited for why you're doing it? That purpose driven work is what Keeps people motivated. And what drives people to want to apply at your place of employment more important than money. People want that sense of purpose. Like, what I'm doing is not just a task, but it's impacting something bigger than myself. And so that is something that I think every business owner needs to take time and consideration when they're. When they're really finding. Trying to figure out why is it that I'm doing what I'm doing.

Yeah, I think of an example of that that we've done before is having technicians in the shop actually meet the customers and putting pictures of customers out in the shop so the technicians understand that, hey, this is a mom with three kids trying to get work two jobs and get their kids to school and to soccer practice and all that. It isn't just a car. You're not just replacing tires. You're providing a single mom with transportation. When they need that reliability, they need consistency because it's a very important tool in the whole system of their life. And, you know, attaching emotion to it increases the quality in the shop, but just the overall enthusiasm. Like you said, we understand that there's people connected to these vehicles. They're not just water pumps and tires.

Exactly. And it's so hard to care about someone you don't know. I mean, that's natural. There's some people that just naturally gravitate towards caring about humans. But I'd say that is not. That is the exception and not the rule. So getting people to care about the people that you serve is huge. Because now they're not just this person, or it's not just this car, it's this car that's doing X, Y and Z. And so I'll also say to that is that this is where a lot of people get so driven by rules and processes and procedures that they forget about just understanding the reasoning and so giving people the autonomy to make those kinds of decisions. The little things are the big things. And so if you close and your policy is that, you know, 15 minutes till doors are locked, we're starting to close up shop, and someone comes in is in dire need, if you're following the policy that says close up shop 15 minutes before start closing down, but you're really recognizing, look, all this person needs is a quote, and then they can come back tomorrow. We need to help people and give people the safety to think for themselves and say, hey, if I was in this situation, what would I want to happen? What would I want my service dealership to do for me? And so Those are the types of employees that we want. We want employees that break the rules for the right reasons, and we give them that autonomy to make those kinds of decisions.

Yeah, it's great stuff. Let's take the second question.

Hi. My question is, how do you interview your interviewer? I was working for a small dealership as a service manager, but I wasn't really liking their ethics or other factors, I guess. So I jumped ship to a different dealership. That dealership is a complete mess, and I'm miserable. But I was kind of disappointed. So that kind of makes it worse. Just because I want to be the best service advisor that I possibly can.

So, I mean, I would say there's a couple things. Is when you're interviewing for a job, the. You know, I'd want to see the numbers and the pay plan. I would want to read their reviews online. Like, what are customers saying? Because if. If the. If the customers aren't happy, it means the systems are broken. And those broken systems are just as hard on employees as they are on customers. If you're an employee caught in a broken system, you're just as miserable. Is all the customers on Google and Yelp. Right.

And then I would hang out and talk to people that work there, and if they give you the cold shoulder and they're not friendly and they, you know, they. They won't share with you, then there's probably something else going on. Most companies where the systems are good and they hire good people that are friendly, you know, people will talk to you, and they're just as excited to talk to you as they are to help a customer. The culture kind of comes through pretty clearly in those situations, but those would kind of be my three. What do you think?

Yeah, I love that you touched on culture, because I think that that's huge. And sometimes culture is like the wind, Right. So it can't be seen, but the effects can actually be felt. If you've ever walked into, like, a board meeting or a team meeting that maybe you weren't a part of the team, you could, like, cut the tension with a knife so you can feel. Feel it. So just by talking to the employees and, like, hanging out there and seeing what does it look like, what are the transactions like between customer and employee and between employee and employee, I think that's huge. But as far as the interview itself is concerned, I think that oftentimes when they're interviewing, people try to hide the culture that they have if it's not one that's good. And so I usually like to go to the question of asking the person that is interviewing me when they get. When you get to that part, it's like, okay, you have any questions for us? One of the questions that I would always go to is to ask them, like, define your culture in one word on your worst day. Because sure, we all have, you know, and it's. And it's not to say you make your decision if they say something bad, but think about your own organization right now and define your culture on its worst day using one word. If I was to define my team culture on their worst day, I would say disorganized, right? So we're kind of all over the place on our worst day. But hey, I'm okay with that because that's my worst day. Imagine like the day in and day out experiences. So trying to capture that in an interview can be really tricky because again, maybe they're replacing that position because that person left because they're like, I can't deal with this anymore. So they're not going to be like, okay, hello, welcome. Our culture is awful. We can't wait to have you. Here's some interview questions that's never going to happen, right? So they're going to do their best to hide their culture, especially if it's not a good one. But if you kind of ask those types of questions that aren't typically asked around culture, specifically define your culture using one word and also asking yourself like, what kind of culture do you want and what type of questions can you ask to determine if that culture is in alignment with what it is that you're looking for as somebody trying to get hired?

Yeah, that's great. You know, I was in a. For a couple years, I was in a mastermind that Cialdini was in. Have you ever read his book Influence?

No, I haven't.

It's a great, great book. And then he has a book that he put out years ago called Pre Suasion. They're both great books. But he said when he was writing Pre Suasion, they did this experiment. I don't think it made it into the book. But this guy got. Got job offers for, I think five different jobs that he wasn't qualified for. And the only thing that he did is when he went in for the job interview, whether it was an individual interview or a few of them were like a panel is. He said, hey, before we get started, can I ask you a question, Michelle, what is it on my resume that made you think I was qualified for this job?

Wow, that's Good.

And then the people would have to sell themselves on why they called them in because he's not qualified for the job. And every time he got an offer.

That's interesting. That is so fascinating.

Just by making them sell themselves on why he was even there, made them like. And also asking a question right at the beginning is a pattern interrupt. And it disrupts kind of the hierarchy and the authority, in a way.

Yeah. People aren't prepared for that question. So they're actually going to be authentic in their response, which I think is important. That's what we're looking for on both ends. Whether you're their interview or the interviewer, we want to see who you are. Really. You know, when I go through. When I sit on interview panels, a lot of them are, you know, for executive level positions. When I'm on the interview panels, I always go in with the mindset, hey, look, guys, like, this is the best we're going to get. Right. So they're going to be on their best behavior in this interview. So when we are interviewing them, if they're all right, I don't think that we should settle. I think we should really kind of dig in and say, this is the best we're going to get because they're on their best behavior right now. So can you imagine, like, six months down the road when they start to get comfortable and what that employee looks like then.

That's one reason why I love group interviews is because in a group interview, you, you know, there is an element of. You have to interact with a bunch of different people and different angles and different agendas that it's. It's harder to come across as a happy, go lucky person when you're in a crowd or in a group.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And I know true colors show a little more.

Exactly. And I know that this is a little bit. It's kind of on the other end of the. Of the question. But I also think just as a business owner or a leader that's bringing someone new on the team, they can make or break that team. Right. So I think it's equally important. We oftentimes hire for talent or for, like, what the resume says. And so maybe that gentleman that you were talking about was getting hired because he just seemed like such a great cultural fit. Because for me, when I'm doing interviewing, especially for the team that I. That I look after, I'm looking for two things. I want to make sure that they can do the job, but I'm open to coaching and developing them. That's that's the world I come from. So what's more important to me is like, hey, can this person hit the ground running, given the resources that we will give them and be a good cultural fit? Meaning, do they play nice with others? Like, will they get along with the team? Because what I don't want to happen is this one person comes in and it just kind of messes up the dynamics of the entire group kind of meshing and getting along. This one person comes in and kind of makes breaks out.