Prescription Company Perks & The Salvation Of Acupuncture..Making A Deal W/ The Doctor..

We do have a caller, so we'll start right out of the gate. Teresa, how are you doing?

I'm good. How are you doing?

I'm awesome. Tell me, tell me about your business and what's going on.

All right. I'm an acupuncturist and I started my business in May of last year. So I'm about a year and a half and still struggling just to get people in the door. I guess converting people who are interested in acupuncture to actually scheduling an appointment instead of saying, oh yeah, I need to try that out and actually like getting them to commit to doing it.

Okay, so you need more customers in the door.

Yeah.

Okay. So how are you marketing now? What have you tried?

I'm not doing a whole bunch just because I don't have a lot of money to put into it. I'm located in of a class based fitness center, so they have about 100 members. So by being there, I mean the hope is that I can kind of get people.

From that business in to see me too as they have like injuries and stuff like that. The owner is a client and she loves me and she's always talking me up. But we have, I don't know, I just have a problem converting the people into actually scheduling I guess.

Then what do you think the apprehension is?

I am really not sure.

I don't know if they are just like.

Never had it before or because it's not typical western medicine, if that's like what scares them away or. I think I do a pretty good job at cleaning how we can help and.

Just being like, you should give it a try at work, you know.

So what sort of things do you. Do you cure? Like what are the biggest needs for people?

We don't like to use the word cure. Why not?

Because you shouldn't use it. Because you can't necessarily always cure something and it's kind of like a empty promise. You can help ease symptoms and you also get in trouble with that whole FDA regulation thing of claiming to cure things.

Situation. But I. It's great for pain, it's great for digestive troubles, helping you sleep, stress relief. We're doing a combined like meditation with acupuncture workshops with the owner of the business where I'm located and that going good. But we're still trying to like convert people into signing up for it to who are like, oh my God, I really want to do that. And then when it comes time to sign up, they make.

A lot of this, like, I should be doing this for myself and then they don't.

And how much are you charging?

I charge 70 for a regular session. It's 100 for the first one because it's a 90 minute. I take a full health history and it just takes a little bit more time to go through and then 70 for follow ups. And I offer packaging for. It's basically like, buy nine, get your 10th free situation.

Okay, I'm writing all this down. Sorry. Okay. Buy nine, get 10 free. The first one's 100 bucks and then it's 70 and you can sleep first.

What, 600 and something dollars you can get 10 is basically 6:30.

Yeah.

Okay, so now back to. So we, we ease pain, we help sleep better, we relieve stress. And then the combo.

What that you're doing with meditation.

How many people are showing up to that?

So we're doing it in like eight week, like an eight week course type of thing. For people who haven't meditated before and are kind of like, I don't know how to. And are scared to like, they're just like, I'm not really good at it. So I pick out stress relieving points that I put in everybody and that kind of helped. We chose eight weeks because there was a Harvard study that shows actual changes in the brain after participants meditated daily for eight weeks. And it kind of just like, you kind of see how the people progress. And it was really good. We're in the middle of our second one right now, but we've only been having pretty small groups doing it. And then a lot of people just paid and didn't show up, which was kind of disappointing because they could have only used it.

How many people?

They didn't like it.

Say that again.

It was because they just. I said it wasn't because they didn't like it. It was just because they were like, oh, I have to do this. You know, they're just like not prioritizing themselves, I guess.

Now, is it covered under any health insurance?

No.

Are you sure?

Not the meditation class?

No. The accu. Acupuncture.

Acupuncture is covered under certain people's insurance, but I don't know, I can give out super bills. So that way people can get reimbursed by their insurance.

You don't know if you can give.

Out what I give out. I can give out a super bill, kind of like a.

They can get reimbursed and then they.

Can get reimbursed by their insurance company if it's covered by. Under their plan.

So you're Mostly you've done no advertising and you're mostly just fishing inside the members of this gym. Am I correct?

I. I moved there actually, so I wasn't even in that spot to begin with. But I kind of went around to like, local businesses. And so, yeah, right now I'm saying word of mouth and I put up a website and I want to start doing like health fairs and stuff like that. But I've actually had a pretty hard time finding health fair. They're actually like going on to be able to like, sign up for this.

Okay. And.

So what do doctors prescribe acupuncture for? Like, if I go to my doctor, what is he going to prescribe it for?

It depends on your doctor. Some people don't. Some doctors don't believe in it. Other people. Other doctors absolutely love it. Most commonly it's used for pain. But a lot of the really great success I've seen is also with sleep and stress reduction. And I've helped people lower the amount of acid reflux medication they have to have and help bring high blood pressure down and stuff like that.

Okay, so then I, I would. There's like a bunch of different ways you could go here. So I'll just kind of start throwing out ideas and then I will warn you that what I'm going to say to you today, some of the things you're going to say that won't work. And then you're going to wake up tomorrow and you're going to go, oh, there was something there. So just kind of keep an open mind a little bit. So the first one is I would go to doctors and sh. Shrinks and have them prescribe people to you and then give them a kickback.

So what do you think about that?

Not really my style. I mean, I could. I would probably be com. Talking to doctors about like referring to each other maybe, but I wouldn't really want to do.

Or do you mean like, what do you really mean by like, kickback? Like discount.

For them to come see me or.

Let me tell you a story. I want to come back to style, whatever that means. Because we're. I thought we were trying to figure out how to get more customers. I didn't know that there were limits on that. Unless it's unethical, I wouldn't understand what that would mean. And it's certainly not unethical. But I. When I was going through my divorce years ago, I went to. I had an apartment in the city and I had a house that Satan, my ex wife was living in. And I had gone there to get some things, and I was headed back to my apartment in the city, and I was sitting in a little restaurant eating dinner, trying to let traffic die down, and I got a bloody nose, and it wouldn't stop. And I went in the bathroom, and it literally looked like a crime scene in this bathroom. Like, I just kept bleeding and bleeding, and it got worse. I never had a bloody nose like that in my life. And so I just kind of. Like, I had a suit on at the time and a suit and tie, and, like, it was just ruined. And so I'm like, you know, I'm just gonna walk out, get in my car, and drive myself to a hospital. And I'd kind of Googled on my phone, and there was a hospital, like, literally two miles away. I. I just. You know, I went back later and gave them money apologizing for the blood in the bathroom, but I drove myself to a hospital. I get to the hospital, they, like, you know, they didn't know if I'd been shot in the face or what. They take me a nose. You know, a nosebleed room, which they had at this hospital. They put me in the room. They can't get it to stop. I'm in there hours. Finally, it stops. The next day, I'm talking to my personal doctor, and he says, you know, if you didn't have a deviated septum from getting punched so much as a kid, and you're. You know, my nose has been broken a couple of times that you would have had a stroke. And I was like, what? And he goes, yeah, so I'm gonna put you on blood pressure medicine. And so he puts me on core egg cr. And so I take core egg, and whenever I take it, I feel like I'm falling off a cliff. I tell him that. He goes, well, when you're in a chair, if you feel like you're falling off a cliff, just squeeze the chair, squeeze something, move around. It didn't. It didn't help. And so I stopped taking it. I end up back in the hospital with a bloody nose that won't stop. So then I. I take it. And he. And I'm asking my doctor. I'm like, how long am have to take this stuff? And he goes, for the rest of your life? And I'm like, for the rest of my life, I'm going to have to take this medication? He says, yes. Just lo and behold, I'm listening to the Howard Stern show, and Howard is talking about transcendental meditation. I do research on It. It. They say that it, you know, dramatically affects blood pressure in a very positive way. I go. I sign up for Transcendental Meditation. I go and do Transcendental meditation. I do Transcendental meditation. But for six months, I go back to my doctor, and he says, what did you do that your blood pressure is so low? How did you fix this? And I said, transcendental meditation. He says, wow, I've been reading a lot about meditation and the positive effects of meditation. And I said, yeah, so can I stop taking this core xcr? And he says, yeah, you can if you want to. You should be fine. Just keep meditating. And I. And I said, just out of curiosity, I want to ask you a question. Will you tell patients about Transcendental meditation before you prescribe core egg cr? And what do you think?

He said.

No.

And why. Why did he say no?

Because it's not proven, and there's not studies that show that the correlation will happen. And it's easier to just prescribe a pill because most people also just want a pill to feel better.

You don't think it has anything to do with the perks from the prescription companies?

Oh, I'm sure it does.

Okay, so doctors. The lesson. The lesson in that is that doctors can be moved to action through perks and kickbacks. And you could be as busy as you want to be. There's nothing in between you and being as busy as you want to be. They're writing prescriptions, and I know I've had employees before that have been written prescriptions by doctors for acupuncture and Gone. And it's been covered under their. Under their health care. And they. Those. Those. The people doing the. The acupuncture are very busy and have thriving businesses, so why would we not make a deal with doctors? What. What is it that makes you feel like that's not your style? Because this is a mental block. This isn't a business block. The business is out there.

Yeah, that completely. It makes sense. I just. It seems unethical to me. Whether or not it is.

I don't know. It just seems wrong. It seems like it makes it part of that whole system of health care that I already don't like and why I'm.

Okay, so let me ask you. Let me ask you a question this way, because this. This is a huge block for you, Teresa. You need to get over. What if the doctor would have said, hey, I got this shaman or whatever that teaches transcendental meditation, and I'm going to prescribe you to go learn Transcendental meditation. By the way, he's going to charge you because, I don't know, I paid fifteen hundred dollars to learn Transcendental meditation. He's going to charge you fifteen hundred dollars and five hundred of it he gives back to me. Do you think I would have rather been on Coric CR on a natural remedy? Do you think I'd rather be putting that crap in my system or have a natural remedy? It had nothing to do with the kickback. I could have cared less. I want my health. I want to sleep. I want to digest food the right way. That's what I want. That's what you're selling. You're not, you're not really paying attention to what you're selling and what a benefit it is to those patients not to be on acid reflux medication for the rest of their life, not to be taking Ambien for the rest of their life. You're doing them a favor. You're. You're cracking the dam and getting in there and giving them a natural remedy.

They.

That helps them, but you have a block because you think it's unethical. But it. The other side of this is it's, it's the most ethical thing you could do. You're helping people with natural cures instead of being on prescriptions for the rest of their life that have side effects and cause diseases and cancer and all kinds of things that a lot of these pills that people take, they haven't been tested for 20 years.

You're talking about a natural remedy that will, will help them dramatically. And you don't want to partner with doctors. I mean, it's a partnership. It's an affiliate program is what it is.

Okay.

Right.

When you put it like that, it sounds more pleasant.

Maybe I shouldn't have said kickback. I should have said an affiliate agreement or a percentage or. You're an independent contractor for them. You could word it any way you want, but at the end of the day, it's okay. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah. Absolutely.

Okay, then. So that's the first one. And I know that if you embrace that and you went around to doctors and shrinks, you, you could get, in three months time, you could get 10 of them prescribing to you, I'm sure. Then the next one is, why don't we run some, some Instagram ads about sleep and stress and pain and meditation. And then you're not going to like this idea either, but why don't we give the first. Why don't we give the first one away? For free. That long 90 minute analysis. Why don't we give it away for free and then sell them the package at the end?

So right now I do have.

I give members of E2, that's the fitness site. I give them half off the first treatment.

I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking that the, the apprehension is so big that people don't show up. That if it was free and it was an analysis and you called it a sleep analysis or a digestion analysis. I've had a lot of successes with this with gyms where we'll, we'll do a Groupon, we get them in and it's a loss leader, but we do an A needs analysis. And then I have a gym right now that's in one of my syndicates. I think his closing ratio is close to 100%. Converting people into bigger packages. But just because the analysis is so good, we go so deep into their pain and into how they would feel if they worked out. You know, measuring them go, you know, really going through the pain and where they're at mentally and then offering a solution and you know, understanding too that if you pay for something, you're going to show up. Right? Like I trick myself into working out because I pay for a trainer. If I didn't pay for a trainer, I could hit the snooze button. But I know like my, my personal trainer is hundreds of dollars every session. So I'm not gonna miss that because I, you know, I just have a threshold. If he was 50 bucks, I might miss it, but I'm not gonna miss it for 250 bucks. So what about something like that where we, we strategically target keywords on Instagram and Facebook, like digestion, sleep, meditation. We give them a free analysis and we don't talk about needles or acupuncture to the degree that it scares them. It's just part of the solution. And we get them in, we get to know them, we really come up with a customized plan for them and then we sell it to them at the end. I bet you your closing ratio would be 50% if you, if you did that.

My only problem with the whole like Facebook and Instagram ads is that whenever I've run them before, like the only likes I've ever gotten were for people in different countries. And I like set the parameters to a 10 mile radius around me. So I'm like confused why people that don't even live in our country because obviously it doesn't do me a lot of good to be advertising people. That aren't local to me.

Well, you can control that in the parameters, right?

Yeah, but even though I did control it, but I was like, the only likes I were getting were like people from India and like, we don't want likes.

We want, we want to run it.

I didn't get anybody, I didn't get any phone calls, any, anything from it. But I like, the only time I got anything was so like that just showed me that people were seeing it that weren't necessarily local. That's my only thing, you know.

What was the headline to your ad? What did the ad say?

I don't remember. It was like a year ago.

Okay.

I, I think I was doing, I was calling it like a free five minute consultation.

About.

Yeah, so that's it.

So let's, what your health needs are.

Let's make the headline, agitate the pain and let's say, hey, are you, are you having a hard time sleeping? Is it hurting your productivity? Is it making you.

They don't let you do that on, they don't let you.

Use that type of wording on Facebook and Instagram. You can't ask people questions because it's too personal. It's really weird. They like, they make it really hard for my profession to be able to get like nice taglines. And if you have too many words in a picture, it like your reach doesn't get as far.

Okay, well, we're running ads, Theresa, like that now. We are in our business. So I'm, we're doing that with.

I don't know why, because I get one like denied. It'll be like, you just can't keep.

Trying and reword it. We get denied too, but we just keep rewording it until it works. But we don't give up on it. But we've had days where everything got denied and we just come back with new stuff and reword it. But I guess you're, you're missing the spirit of what we're trying to say. Maybe not the wording.

No, I do get it is.

It's sleep. You're miserable. You want to go at what their, what their pain is and then offer a complimentary consultation. And don't say five minutes because there's no value in that. Just say there's a consultation. It could take 10, it could take an hour, whatever. You know, each person is going to be a little bit different. Okay. I hope, Teresa, you wake up thinking a little bit different tomorrow. Don't be stubborn, okay? The, the business is out there, but you're you know, whatever the movie is you're playing in your head is going to be what happens. And so don't write yourself into a sad, you know, comedy. Write yourself as the hero of the journey. And you can go out and make friends with doctors and be partners with them and however you want to word it. But the business is out there, especially with the passion you have for people. You can help a lot of people. Thank you.

Thank you.

It.