Shop Foreman in Fixed Ops: The #1 Role Killing or Growing Your Service Department

Welcome, everybody, to the big show. I'm Chris Collins. That is Adam Hoagie. And today we are going to talk about how to be an effective shop foreman. What does it take to be a world class foreman? That's driving production, has a great team and culture around them. And we talk a little bit about the NFL and Hoagie diagnoses Adam as a kind of like, how would you say it? Like, Cowboys fan, Borderline Cowboys fan?

Come on.

No, that and much, much more coming up right now on service drive Revolution. So I know it's been a week for everybody, but I have to talk about the Super Bowl. We threw a huge super bowl party here at the library, which I think was pretty good, right?

Yeah, it was a blast.

Fantastic.

We know how to throw a party. We know how to feed people. The food was good.

So much food.

I had family members fly down, of course. I grew up a Seahawks fan, so it was a big deal for my family. We actually, the last time they went to the super bowl was the last time they played the Patriots and we actually went to that super bowl, which was depressing. So this one turned out kind of like I thought it would. I thought it'd be a little bit more of a blowout than it was. Defensive game, but good.

Yeah, yeah. It picked up a little steam as it went on, but. But yeah, it was. First half was definitely more of a defensive struggle, but. But it was great. I never felt like Seattle was not in control of the game, though. Like, I felt I had control the whole time.

They were definitely in the lead on that. On all sides.

Picked up poor Drake May. He had to just wake up seeing those Seahawks defensive linemen in his sleep. He was running for his life all night.

You think his Instagram girlfriend broke up with him?

I doubt it. They've been together since like fourth grade or something like that. I think they're in it for the long haul.

He's fine. He's still first round pick. Yeah, yeah, he's doing fine. I think I. Do you think he was overrated?

I think people say that now.

I don't know.

I don't know if he's overrated. It's just.

I think it's just a bigger conversation because, like, if you just. We'll go over to the Seahawks side and like Darnold, like, how is it to be a Vikings fan right now? Like, Darnold last year gave the Vikings the best record they've had in like 15 years and they release him and then he goes and wins the Super Bowl.

Yep.

So, like, I think it's part, like, because it would have been pretty easy to say that Darnold was overrated in some of his previous seasons. But, like, I think there's just certain things that come together, put in a system that. That plays to the strengths of that player and like, all of those things together. Right.

Like surrounding him with the right leadership and coaching, and I think it fosters a good team.

I mean, this isn't a sports show, so we don't have to get too far into it. But I would contend that Sam Darnold, just like Russell Wilson, is overrated. That team's built around defense and running, dude. So, I mean, it's funny when everybody used to say, oh, just let Russ throw the ball. Let Russ throw the ball. How'd that work out?

Yeah, not so hot.

No.

And Russ had. Everybody forgets, but Russell Wilson had a bunch of three interception. Four interception games. And, you know, so the thing that Russ. Russ would have been good on this team, too, is he was a game manager, and that's what you need in a quarterback. So Sam can. Can manage the game, but I don't think, I don't think that anybody's asking him to be Tom Brady.

Yeah.

You know, I, I know that we won the super bowl and he's the super bowl winning quarterback, but it's way more about the team and the system that they're running than it is the. Yeah, I mean, I was, I was listening this morning about what a hard time they had to pick the MVP and that there were two people on the defense that got voted for, or it might have been a defensive player. Like, they split the votes and Walker was the, you know, far and away the leading influencer of the outcome on offense. So there wasn't, you know, he wasn't splitting the votes because really, Witherspoon probably should have been the mvp where it was very close.

Yeah.

Because the defense was. Was controlling that game. But it was fun. My cousins are super fun. It was. It got rowdy. What would you, what would you wear usually to a. A Super bowl party between the Seahawks and the New England Patriots? Like.

What would I wear?

Just a normal person.

Oh, yeah. I wore, I tried to wear, like, I didn't have any Seahawks stuff, but if. When my team's not in it, I always want my friends, teams to. To do good. Like, I was super happy that you're. That your Seahawks were in it and won. Like, I was just sitting here thinking as you were talking about it, like, you know, how Happy I was that, like, your team won.

And then when it was the Chiefs, I was really happy. When the Chiefs. Yeah, I like the Chief.

So I had like a blue shirt. Like, I. I wore the closest thing I had in my closet that was Seahawks blue versus could be confused for New England blue.

Yeah. Weird.

So just put some thought into it like that, you know.

Yeah.

That's just where.

So that's normal. That sounds. Sounds thoughtful and normal.

I feel like this is being targeted at me somehow. I. I was rooting for the NFC side of things, so.

No, we're talking about dress, not who you're.

Yeah. Dress I was wearing NFC inspired.

You're wearing Chicago Bears.

Yes. For the nfc, it was all Bears.

And then when the Seahawks won, in the moment of celebration, all you did is talk about the Bears. The Bears are going to be there next year. The bet.

I wanted to.

I wanted to feel the release the schedule already.

Yeah.

Like, somehow the Seahawks and the Bears are playing in November in Seattle. I did everything I could to find that online and I could not find. It just says that they have not yet released the schedule for next year.

No, but there are some predictions.

It wasn't how you were saying was funny.

Everybody in Seahawks jerseys is high fiving like the. The game is kind of ending. The trophy ceremony's over. They're switching over the TV to watch the post game. There's nobody on the post game.

He likes a big cigar.

Yeah.

Like he was in the locker. Like he was.

And then Adam's like, well, next year, the Bears.

Yeah. Huh. We're ready. It should be fun.

We mark this date, everybody. Adam is predicting the Bears in the super bowl next year, and they're saying.

What Super Bowls in la. So. Yeah.

Yeah.

So this time next year, they'll be next year. But it'll be fun season.

It's great. I'll wear my packers jersey. No.

Yeah. See, that's a low blow, but I gotcha.

It is, though. Like the. How many Super Bowls did you guys win back to back the Chiefs?

2.

2. It is interesting, though, like, when you guys would win and I would be like, oh, how do you feel? And you're like, oh, it's good. Like, that's kind of how I feel. Is like, okay, but now what now? And also like, the combines in two.

Weeks, like, you don't have much time left.

There's no rest.

Yeah, it's true.

The NFL goes 365 days a year now.

Well, that's definitely what they're trying to cultivate. Right and the expansion with internationally, they really want this to be truly global. So I've even heard in the past that they were trying to figure out. I don't know if there's truth to this, but trying to figure out how they can expand the number of games to, like, maybe even a Saturday or a Friday. I don't know how you get football.

Well, they did that towards the end when college dropped off. There were Saturday games, which was annoying.

Yeah.

I like it all on Sunday.

Yeah, I did, like, the one Saturday game that we had.

To be honest. I hate Thursdays, too.

Yeah, Thursdays are rough. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

There's more injuries.

Yeah. And. And like you said, if it's just all Sunday, like, one of the reasons why I don't follow some other sports, like basketball and baseball. I like the sports. I don't mind watching them from time to time, but there's too much, like, I don't have time. I don't have time for it.

Yeah.

I can't do it. Yeah. So, like, I love the Thunder. I love having a hometown team in okc, but, like, it's just. It's too much. And so until they make it late in the playoffs, I don't even really pay attention. It's just not.

Yeah.

Did you see the commissioner's speech the day after?

No.

He said this is by far and away the best season of football that he can remember. And he did a thing like when I was. When I was a fan and a kid growing up, and then, you know, being the commissioner, and he goes, this is the best season of football.

Did he give a lot of great football? Yeah. Did he give any sort of reasons? Just because how tight some of the games are and some of the.

No. It all followed the script. It was all on script.

So their adherence rating was about 99%. Oh, this makes a lot of sense with the calling. Yeah. So I can get on that bandwagon, too.

Also, we figured out Epstein still alive. A lot of things happened at that super bowl party. It was pretty good. Pretty fun.

Good time.

Yeah. Well, it was great. I'm really happy. I. I love being the underestimated team.

Yeah.

But they. Most people are picking us to win, like, five or six games this season, and we literally could have gone undefeated just for a couple. Yeah, a couple games.

Yep.

They were close, but the, you know, really, the losses made us better. I mean, it's rare you would say that, but every time we got a loss and you could just tell. Just feel the team just got more focused, more yeah, more intentional.

Yeah.

They're like. You know, there definitely is a internal locus of control on that team where they're not leaving it to chance. Like, they want to play a style of football that the other team doesn't want to play. I will say this, and I'm sorry if you're not a football fan. I know this is about service drives and that sort of thing, but I've never seen the opposing teams lose their will as much as I have against the Seahawks team. Like, you could see it in the Patriots. You could see it in the Niners. You could see it in a bunch of teams throughout the year, where the style that we play and how aggressive we are and how hard they hit and how they hit like a gang. Like, really, their thing is, like, they want turnover. So one guy holds them, and the rest of them hit him. Like, if you pay attention, like, there's a style to the way they're tackling and hitting that wears down the opposing team. And. And you could just see it in their eyes. Like, they're just like.

Go, ouch. Yeah. Like. Yeah.

Their will to. To live, you know?

Well, and they had several games, too, that. Because of that thing, too. Like, when a team has that grit and they're. And they're just relentless in that way, they end up winning some games they might not should have. Like, there's games the Seahawks won. I forget what that Thursday night game was. I think maybe in the Rams or somebody.

Yeah.

And, like, if you look at the stat sheet, this. The Hawks shouldn't have won that game.

500 yards of offense. Yeah, something like that. Yeah.

But there's just. There's a thing to that, for sure. It's interesting.

Yeah. It's fun. It's good. Okay, let's talk about shop foremans. And so Hoagie, being the expert at this table where he was actually a tech and he came up that way, is gonna kind of lead this. But we're gonna talk about the role of a shop foreman in the service department. How can a shop foreman be effective? We're in a lot of dealerships. And I would say, too, like, a shop foreman's role in an automotive dealership is different than in a truck dealership, but still very vital in that way. And so the very first thing that I would say for a shop foreman, just setting all of this up, is to understand the business we're in and then understand the role that different positions play inside of that business. And most of the time, the thing that I see with a shop Foreman. And their identity is. Their identity is as a technician and they see themselves as being a good shop foreman if they have a lot of product knowledge, which is exactly the opposite of what it is to be a good shop foreman. So the product knowledge is almost assumed, like, yeah, you have to have product knowledge, you have to be the best tech in the room. You know, you have to have communication, you know, all kinds of different things. But at the end of the day, the business we're in is we're selling time. And so it's a production facility. And most, most foremen out there don't weigh their success. They don't attach their identity to the production numbers. Like, how many hours are we moving through here? How efficient are our technicians versus oh, I know how to fix that problem. Yeah, you know, and you can tell where people put their energy by their identity. So if you identify as the person who can fix any car, you mo. You most of the time are going to spend your time on the problem cars and the production is going to go down, right?

Yeah.

And then even, like I would say in some, some truck service departments, I've seen foreman that are the foreman, the dispatcher, they're, they're playing a lot of roles, but they're driving production and they see them, their role is driving production. So that's why they're dispatching, that's why they're standing in the middle of the shop. Like, that's one thing I love about a lot of truck dealerships is the shop foreman's right in the middle of the shop at a kiosk and like, like has. Has their fingers in kind of everything can yell, hey, when's this one going to be done? Where, you know, they're not in the back central command.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. You know, I think that's a. Probably the place to start this whole conversation is we have to view it as a leadership position. That is like mistake number one is we pull the shop foreman into a category of a technical position. And if you're viewing it through that lens, like you're starting off in completely the wrong. The wrong spot. Like, I almost wish we just called it a production manager or something like that and not a shop foreman.

Because leadership is measured in the outcome of the people you're leading, not in your. You can't look at somebody and go, they are a good leader. You have to look at their people in the production. And then you would decide whether they're a good leader or not. It's not an individual sport. It's a team sport.

And like any other leadership position, if you are figuring out how to be more of a leader than a manager, you're figuring out being proactive versus versus reactive. Right. Like, we talk a lot of times about service managers, a trap service managers fall into a lot of times is they think that with experience, they've become a really good service manager because they can react to how good they handle the fires that they got to put.

Out every day, the organized chaos that they it. Yeah.

And a shop foreman hangs their hat on the ability to be able to solve all the problems that all the texts bring them. And like, I used to. I still tell some of my people and, and, and, you know, used to tell different people on my team all the time. Like, if you're in any type of leadership position, when I first got married, my, my wife, like, I tried to be bad at doing the dishes. Do you know why I tried to be bad at doing the dishes?

So nobody never asked you to do the dishes?

Yeah. So she'd be like, get out of the way. I'll do it. Like. And as a foreman, I see you guys all the time where, like, you, you fall into that trap where it'll be faster if I do it myself or I want it done a certain way, so I'm just going to do it myself. And, and just leadership in general falls into that trap where they judge themselves on how well they react to the situation. And they don't take a step back and realize that their bosses and everybody else is judging them on the performance of the people below them. What's happening in your department? What's happening on your team? As a shop foreman, you're more judged on what all those technicians are doing. How many comebacks do they have? What production are they putting out? What's the narrative of the shop? Is there a negative narrative? You know, what's the water cooler talk around your shop like, all of those things. And, you know, a thing of leadership is you don't have to be put in charge of a group very long before that group starts to look a lot like you.

Yeah.

And so, like, what your work stall looks like, all of those things matter. And then when you're able to start to connect some of those dots, a lot of things get better. Like when you talk to tenured shop foreman, one thing you'll hear a lot of times is there's this kind of. Amongst that group, there's this underlying secret that if you want techs that take pride in their work, if comebacks is a situation in your shop that you want to work on. The first thing you do to correct that is you go and you take one of your technicians that's, you know, a little more forward thinking in a team player. And you have them clean their stall a certain way and you put lines on the floor and the trash cans go here and you make one stall look exactly how it's supposed to look. And then you bring the rest of the team over and like, hey, we're going to do this for every single stall. And every day at the end of the day, the lifts go up, everything goes back in its place and this is what a stall looks like at the end of every day. Like, it's amazing just having a standard for what your work area looks like and taking pride in that and making people tuck their shirt ins and look a certain way when they come to work. All those little things that are easier to control than taking pride in your work. So you don't have so many comebacks. That's the first step to addressing comebacks and having techs that take pride in their work make them take pride in the way they look and the way their stall and work area looks. And, and it's amazing how like how many of those things kind of fall into place. But you know, it's easy to get off in the weeds of this being a leadership conversation, but it's because it's the most common mistake when considering what you want out of a shop foreman or myself as a shop foreman. How, how do I, you know, better myself and do a better job? You have to be looking at it through the lens of the number one way that you serve clients and the profitability of the company as a shop foreman is to get the cars in and get the cars out and fixed right the first time. Like you're a production manager. That's what it's about. And so it's kind of the first, you know, the first order of business is for you to work with your powers that be your bosses to set goals for every technician for every single day and then for the month as a whole and kind of back into what that looks like for every single tech and then having those one on ones with them. Understanding through dispatching standards. Yep. Where people are at, are they meeting their goals, are they meeting their minimum standards? But yeah, it's a production manager more than a shop foreman. Right.

And so kind of what you're describing in a sense is the culture. Like you can tell when you go into a shop and you meet the shop foreman. And he's wearing like. Looks like he's wearing the same clothes for a week. He's disheveled. He's late to a meeting. Like, his people are late and they're disheveled and the stalls are dirty and nobody knows where the special tools are. And like, it just. It just can. It's all connected.

Yeah.

It's the culture. So you create the culture by your leadership. And culture is a very misunderstood thing in the sense that culture is about law and order. It's not about being liked and having everybody feel good about you because you let them do whatever they want. Right. It's terrible parenting and it's terrible leadership all at the same time. And so the goal is not to be liked in the moment. The goal is to grow technicians, to be humans that are contributing to society, that bring something to the table, that are force multipliers in a way that you're growing the next generation of foremen in the standard you hold everybody to, in the example you set and where you put your energy and what you encourage. Because wherever you put your energy is. Is where things are going to grow. Right.

Like.

Coach McDonald for the Seahawks says that all the time, like the. Enter the. The ball follows energy. And like, there were a bunch of times this year where we made plays because we picked up the ball or we were around the ball. Like, it just follows energy. And it's the same thing like where. Where you put the energy and that's the example you set. It's how you look, it's your expectation. All of that is what is going to be the. The final product of. Of what your shop is. And it's culture. Like, you set the culture and that it needs to be a culture of production. Like you, you live and die by how many hours you turn with the availability of text time.

Yeah.

Like, are you beating the mark? In a sense. And anything less than. Than that is failure. And then one other thing too, you were touching on is I just was thinking in my head, when you see yourself as the. The one that can fix a problem car. There's that saying in the Bible. You can. You can give a man a fish and feed him once, or you can teach them how to fish and feed them for a lifetime.

Yeah.

And so, you know, making them work for it, making them figure it out. Sticks.

Yeah. Like, there's one thing I hear over and over and over and over again is my, you know, my guys are bad at diagnosis. My guys are bad at diagnosis. And if I spend just a Second, with them out in the shop, like, they're in a way, just so you know, like, a way I mentioned them just a minute ago, but a red flag for you as a leader. If you hear yourself saying, it's going to be quicker if I do it myself or I want it done a certain way or I'm just going to do it myself or whatever, that's a red flag. If you're, if you find yourself saying that. The other thing is, as a shop foreman, you should be asking way more questions than, than you are giving input. Like, when they bring things to you, you should be asking a question. Cause, you know, to Chris's point, like, the reason I bring up letting them be bad at the dishes, like, don't let them be bad at doing the dishes. Right. Like, one of the reasons they're quote, unquote, bad at diagnosis is we're not going through that thing with them. Like, they bring you a problem. Hey, have you checked bulletins? Have you? Like, there should be. If they're bringing you a problem, they should have already gone through all the things. Like there's no world where they should be bringing you an issue without telling you everything that they've tried so far and getting to a certain point. Right. Because if you're just giving them the answer all the time, then they just bring you more and more things and they're never going to get better that way. Right. Like, and if you're just being like, get out of the way, like, I'll just do the dishes, I want them done a certain way or whatever.

Well, it's a true mentorship. Right. Like you're coaching the rest of your team to be how you want to be represented as a whole.

Yeah.

Because I think that's huge. Like, even running through a lot of truck dealerships. But I think also in car too, just those morning huddles, being participation in those huddles, coming prepared, already having a plan, understanding what's coming in, what should be getting finished up and kind of doing that air traffic control with the entire team, the advisors, everyone else, and getting that in there and the whole production facility and that can be ran with a true foreman. I think we should also talk about, like, when we say working foreman versus foreman, that is one thing definitely. I've came across with a lot of truck dealerships is the working foreman versus the foreman so that they continue to bill those hours depending on the size of the shop. I have never really came across a true, like, working foreman that has actually worked out for the production Facility, a foreman should really be truly going to each bay or stall, checking the progress, checking the time. Because mostly in a truck it's not that flat rate time. But we should have targets and goals in managing that production facility.

I would just contend. Just food for thought out there. And just to kind of raise the level a little bit is like, so let's, let's just pretend for a second that I'm a team leader in a shop. How long do you think it would take me to go from a team leader to the shop foreman in a.

Shop to get promoted?

Yeah. And what would get me there? I guess.

Upping the production of your team.

Right. So if I, if I have a bunch of techs working for me and our production is so, so good that I could not be productive.

Right.

Like we could afford me to stand there. And that's how I would be thinking in my head is like my team, my eight techs, or hum, six, whatever I had would be so productive. I would set them up for success. We'd have systems in place, but it would all start with one thing. And this is the thing that most shop foremans miss. And we were in a shop just the other day and it, we all talk about production, but nobody does. The thing that drives production more than anything else is they're not posting the daily numbers. Like there's no leaderboard, there's no huddle about here's what we did yesterday, gentlemen or team, you know, and then today here's what we need to do. Nobody's looking at the hours until the end of the pay period or the end of the month in some cases.

And then we're like, what happened?

Insane.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just, it's back to what you said is it's reactive, it's not proactive. So if I was a team leader and we were looking at our hours every day, we were trying to constantly improve and create better systems, it would not be that long before it would be very evident to whoever my boss was that I'm a better asset running all of the techs than a team leader. And I could do both for a while. Right. And so the measurement of a good team leader to me is that person that separates from the pack and like their group is just a little bit different. They're a little more intentional. They have better results than anybody else. They take it, you know, seriously and they're, they're producing. It's a production facility. It's not just about fixing cars. It's about fixing cars and beating the time.

And, and I think, yeah, one, there's, there's still a good percentage of shops I go into where they're not posting production numbers. And then if you are posting production numbers, understand that there's only, there's only one metric that techs need to operate off of. Right. And it's, it's hours, it's sold hours, build hours, flag hours, whatever you want to call them. But the hour, the billable hour they're actually producing doesn't matter if you call.

It productivity efficiency, yards per carry. It does not matter if you work an eight hour day. How many hours did hoagie flag?

Yes, that's it. That's it.

Oh, 10. Okay, great. Well, we're 100 and something percent. Right?

Yeah. So 6.

Holy cow. What happened?

Yeah, yeah. And you can do those in your, in your morning huddles. It's a little bit of peer pressure, but like when, you know, a quick, a quick story with that. When I, when I first started as a tech, I'd been a tech for a little, little less than a year. And the shop I was at, you know, a lot of the shops we go to now have a flat screen and they have a nice spreadsheet that puts it up there. But we're still back in the whiteboard days with the pinstriping on it.

Some of those still have those. Yep.

I still like those personally. But they posted a bunch of these percentages for each tech and, and the percentage would turn red or green or whatever. And we had just gone to CDK Tech Terminal. So to give you an idea how long ago this was, we, we had just gone away from the flag sheets where you walk over the time clock and peel them off and stick. And CDK Tech Terminal, when you clock in, it automatically clocks you out at five o'. Clock. And so we had just gone over to this system and I was staying late to finish a ticket and I clocked back onto a ticket and after it automatically clocks you, clocks you out when you clock back on. If you clock back in to do that, it doesn't clock you out again. Right. So I didn't clock off that ticket when I left and it ran time on it all night. So when I came back in, I had like 16 hours ran on this warranty line. And the craziest thing happened when the warranty clerk was the one that put those numbers on the board every day. And when she came out and put them on the board, like three of my four percentages turned green because it was based off of my clock time. And I was a new tech, like my production wasn't that great. And so I was like asking the service manager and he's like, well, those two percentages, I really don't know how they're calculated. Like we can go in and ask Tammy. I didn't understand. But what I figured out really quick is even though I wasn't producing very, very many flat rate hours yet, if, if I stayed clocked in on the ticket and I went out to the tool truck, I was good. I was green. So like.

But I've encountered that numerous times. And that's also lack of somebody managing whatever the screen or the board is.

If you're gonna have those tools, all those things. And I don't want to knock measuring all that stuff. But. And it's important. Text clock in on. And we're tracking that. They're clocking in on tape kinda. But it's not the most important thing. It's not like all I need to know.

Like if these. The other thing is like, I think that a lot of that stuff is so demeaning to the text.

Yeah.

If you're a professional.

Yeah.

And you take it seriously in an eight hour day, how many hours are you putting up? That's it. You know, I'm not like, if I have to, if I have to worry about how much time you spend at the, at the vending machine. I don't care. I don't care. Like, I remember this client we have.

The.

General manager is kind of crazy. Our best tech that flagged the most hours in the whole shop. And we're talking about a shop of like 35 techs was texting on their phone and the general manager comes in and I go, I want you to write them up. They're texting and they should be on a job. And I'm like, I don't care if.

He flagged 18 hours yesterday.

Brings a tanning bed and he's got a cocktail.

Yeah.

He flags ours. I'm not.

Yeah.

Text away.

Yeah.

I don't. If I have a bunch of texts that I gotta, I gotta go. Hey, get off your phone. Stop texting. The culture's wrong. The motivation. Yeah, that's me. Like I'm, I don't, like I say this all the time. Like, I don't care if you can run it from a fax machine in Guam. Hawaii, whatever. I don't know anybody who can do that. But if you can, great. Like it's all about production. And if, if your focus is the production you stop spending all your time on the stupid reports and like, how many different ways do we need to, to look at a number?

Yeah, yeah.

Eight out. You're, you're working an eight hour or a ten hour or a twelve hour day. I mean most of it's eight hour. You need to flag more than eight hours in a day. That's it. Like, that's where we're at. These techs are professionals. They have their own, like the, the good ones. You don't have to worry about them spending too much time at the vending machine or going for a walk or whatever.

So I, they're already doing it.

The best techs are. They need a little space. Sometimes they got to go for a walk. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard on your body, it's hard on your mind. Like, I think a lot of that stuff is so demeaning now. I love stats. Like, I love stats, but I do think when it comes to, to technicians, the stats can paint a different picture.

That really is intended.

I don't know how many times I sat in a meeting and they're like, we just did it the other day. And we're like, well, our efficiency is in our. And it's like, okay, how do I, can somebody just tell me in an eight hour day, what's the average tech flag? Six hours, seven hours. That's all I care.

Just break it down. It's simple.

I know this makes you look good because they're clocked on and off, but. Yeah, it would appear to me that even though your efficiency or whatever proficiency is 120%, you're really 50 efficient. Because the average text flagging four hours a day, that's all I care about. Don't. I don't care about what you tell your 20 group or what, you know. Yeah, I think that we, we're, we're, we're overdoing it when it comes to the text. It should just be super simple. Yeah, super simple. It cracks me up that, that you're so. That was, I'll never forget it because you're clocked on. That was in truck they call that efficiency.

Efficiency.

In car they call it proficiency. And in my house, I call it suicide. I would rather commit suicide than argue with somebody. I mean, I don't know how many times I've argued with people about that. And I'm like, eight hours. What did we flag in eight hours? That's it. Super simple. That's what my board would be. It's just, I'd have A dry erase board and my warranty administrator. Somebody go out there every day and they would, they would put nine and then it would be divide eight into nine and then give you 100 and something percent. And that would be.

And it's easy for them to understand success is attracted to clarity. Like, it's another leadership lesson. But. And kind of along the lines of what you're saying too. Like, the top guys, they already know how many hours they need to make a day to have that many for the week and for the pay period to get the paycheck they want to have. They're not like any.

I mean, they're just like desired outcome already calculated.

They also know that if they spend 20 minutes.

Yeah.

The vending machine, they're costing themselves money.

Yeah.

We don't. They're not kids.

Yeah. Yeah.

We don't have to treat them like kids.

Yeah.

I think it's kind of. It's kind of disrespectful in a lot of ways.

Yeah. All that, like, I would agree with that.

Put your phone in a locker, like text. I mean, the good techs are so talented and they work so hard. Like, leave.

Yeah.

Judge them on their hours, not on.

Yeah. I think another one we need to, we need to add to this list is that I think is really important is bring the shop foreman. So. So the leaders, like I have owners, general managers even, that are involved in the tech hiring process. Like, everybody needs techs. A lot of people are jumping in and trying to help with this and things like that. And. And ultimately the service managers most responsible for hiring techs. If your shop foremen are not part of your tech hiring process, you've. You're missing in a big way.

That wouldn't even make sense.

They should be involved in those interviews. Yeah. And you know, be a layer of interview. You know, maybe with a lot of different positions. We have vetting and we have different layers of interviews. And, and for techs, I know a ton of situations where the shop foreman's not involved. And yeah. Just like it should be part of your process, like Chris said it should be. You know, they should definitely have a say in the final decision of, like, who's coming on the team. And what you'll find is when you involve them in the interview process, you'll learn a lot of great questions to ask. You'll get better at interviewing texts and. Yeah. And it's just, it's something that I see a lot. Right. Like, it's just one of those things where we want them in the back and want them busy and then, you know, we end up trying to take care of that. That stuff up front ourselves.

But what's that parcels quote? Like, if you want me to cook the dinner, you got to let me get the groceries. Like, I can't imagine. Yeah, you're holding them accountable to, to the production. They have to have some sort of say in the groceries.

Well, they also will own that outcome a little bit more since they're part of the process. Right.

Yeah.

Of hiring their, their team.

Yeah.

Yeah, I like that.

That's good.

Yeah.

Anything else?

I think the, I think one thing that comes up in the shop a lot, a question from shop foreman that I get a lot is how do I, how do I fairly and equitably dispatch? And what it goes back to is something that we've already covered. If you're a production manager, if you're a leader of that shop and you understand the outcome you're working towards in getting billable hours through the shop and produced, what it kind of will lead you to is forcing you to set goals for everybody. All the stuff we talked about, you're posting the numbers, all that stuff. If that thing's happening, you realize really quickly who isn't meeting their daily goals and their weekly goals. And that's how you decide like, okay, this guy got stuck on this crazy warranty job. He's pacing. You know, the last two days he finished several hours short of his goal. I'm gonna dispatch something to him that helps him get caught up. And it's just, if you're pushing production, it keeps you from, like, there's just a huge level of. And this can get off into a conversation of lateral support and it's not the time for it, but like, keeps you from worrying about like burnout and people thinking that you're playing favorites or anything like that. When, when it's production, production minded, they see that the guy spent a bunch of time on a warranty job and, and, and then. So when he gets, you know, a couple of gravy jobs to help his production numbers get up and things like that, and, and they see it on the board and when, when we have the morning huddle and, and everybody's reporting their numbers from yesterday. Yeah, just. There's a great deal of transparency. So the, the fix for that thing that we spend so much time asking about of how do we dispatch, how do we. It's because you're, you're reactionary to it. If you're productive minded and you're Setting goals for everybody. And then you're just turning the puz, where I can get everybody to their production objectives, all that stuff goes away.

Like, well, and I would also say this is true for service advisors also. But the best technicians, and this is a culture thing. Like, if you're trying to grow techs and really mentor them and teach them, the best ones look at every vehicle as an opportunity, and they're not really thinking that way because they're maximizing the inspection and what's possible. And you get lucky sometimes. Like, I don't know how many times when I was an advisor, nobody wanted to help that guy with the new. Whatever it is. And then I went out there and it ended up being front end suspension or, you know, something. And so if you don't judge and you just do everything in front of you with the best of your ability and don't take shortcuts, you get lucky. And so you're gonna get lucky as a tech. And the best ones know that. So you don't usually hear them talk. The best ones talking about work mix. They're too busy working. It's the ones in the middle that are like, well, it's the work mix. And I mean, sometimes that's it. But it doesn't do you any good to think of it that way.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Life's not fair.

Yeah.

But you got to focus on what you can control and do the best. And so oftentimes those guys that are complaining about the work mix also, their inspections aren't very good. They're not consistent with the process.

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's fair.

Yeah.

You want to have blinders on like a racehorse. It's just like, what's.

What.

What's in front of me right now. The other thing I would say about that, and this is. This is just one of those kind.

Of.

Things in life that don't really make sense, is if you're. If you have a lead and you want to give it to a salesperson, you think like, oh, well, this is a. This is a house leader. It's an easy lead. Let me give it to the low guy. The low guy will mess that up. The best person to give the. The. The gravy to is the. The one at the top. Yeah, they're going to follow. They're. The reason why they flag so many hours is because they flag so many hours, they're the best one to get that job. And I know that it doesn't. That's not fair. And that's not how life is. It's not fair. But you. You want to stack the deck towards the performers, not feed the bottom. The bottom has to figure out how to come up on its own. If it doesn't come up on its own, you're not going to get it there by giving them gravy.

Yeah.

You're. You'll make. You'll make more money and you'll have higher production by feeding the text that are the. The ones that produce.

Yeah.

Give them the gravy.

Yeah.

And it's like that in sales. It's like. It's just like that in. Life is like winners are winners and good things happen when you give stuff to winners and bad things happen when you give good stuff to losers.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, hopefully you don't have a shop full of losers, but there's always a few hanging around everywhere. And we always have this like, oh, we gotta be fair. It's a production facility. It's not about being fair. Life is not fair. I know that in the last 20 something years we've had this movement towards entitlement and things being handed to us, but you, you just can't run a business that way for very long. It's just not how it is.

Yeah.

The top. You're not going to keep top performers if you don't feed top performers.

Yeah.

They're there for a reason.

Yeah.

And you got to know how to manage top performers. So with salespeople, with text, your top performers are the ones that should be getting the, you know, the better stuff.

Yeah. You're a production manager. It's a. It's a throughput machine. Right. Like, it's all about throughput and that, you know, we try to get too clever, I think, with dispatch. Like the number one guiding principle with dispatch or is to, you know, get the car in. We want to get as many hours on that one ticket as we possibly can and then get that car out and get those hours completed and build as quickly and efficiently as possible. Like that. That's it. That's the. Yep. The one guiding principle for. For dispatch is you want as many hours on the ticket as you can and then, you know, get those hours done as efficiently as you can and get, you know, get it in and get it going.

Great stuff. It's a great conversation about shop foreman. Food for thought. Go hawks.

Go bears. Yeah.

I was gonna say. I can't.

You're waiting for it.

Can't resist.

Like, I just can't.

I told him he's one step away from a Cowboys fan.

Oh, that's. Yeah. Really?

Come on.

So.

No way. So close.

Maybe the Bears don't even make the playoffs.

A. Dude, you heard it here first. Bears aren't making the playoffs. Thanks for that, Dagger.

What? If you don't play the Seahawks, you play the Rams.

We're playing Seahawks.

Think so. Well, thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time on Service Drive Evolution. Thanks so much for watching this episode of Service Job Revolution. We're uploading new stuff every day, so make sure you subscribe and click the bell icon so you don't miss out. If you have a question you'd like us to answer on the show, call 8333-ASK SDR and we'll answer your question on the show. That's 8333-ASK SDR. For special deals on our books and training, head over to offers.chriscollinsinc.com now that's offers.chriscollinsInc.com I'm Chris Collins, and I'll see you in the next video.