Techs & Advisors Quitting? You Need Stronger Leadership

Today on the big show, we are talking to a guest, Clint Pulver, from drums to data. And also the author of I Love It Here, his book. He's going to be a speaker at Top Dog. So we have a fun conversation with him, and then we talk about Christian's anger problems.

That's just the beginning of what happens in this episode of Service Trap Revolution.

If you guys have been to the office here in the library, you know that Christian's office has a glass door, and then on the other side, there's, like, a glass wall.

And so he also has this. Funny. I don't. I'm going to guess who put these things on everybody's door. I took it off of my door.

Yeah, I know, I know.

But there's this, like, this piece of wood that on one side says, basically, leave me alone. And on the other side, it says, come on in. But, like, if you want to come on in, once you just open the door. Like, to me, if the door is closed, that tells you you don't need to know. You don't need the sign. So I always love to go by Christians and flip the sign to come on in. When he has it on, do not.

Come the look on your face, because in order for you to flip the sign. In order for him to flip the sign, he has to make eye contact with me. No matter what column on, he, like, has to make the eye contact first.

And then.

So today I forget. Oh, I'm going in that front room for something. Oh, one of the guests on books that changed my life sent me a book. And so I want to return the favor and send her a book. And so I went in that front room because it was a photography book. And I'm coming out of the. The side door, and I. I. Out of the corner of my eye, Christian's in a fist fight. Like, he's fighting something I don't like. He's literally swinging. And then I, like, so I stopped to look or whatever, and. And he's. He's, like, standing over his computer like, I don't know, like, pissed about something. And so I asked him later. I even tried to, like, wave at you. You weren't even. You wouldn't even look at me. Like, you were so into it.

And I go, like, what were. Who are you talking to? He goes, oh, that was a pro.

It was a prospect.

Like, you don't talk to clients that way.

Are we ever gonna make friends with somebody? They're never gonna buy from you, but. And also, like, you're Way over the computer. Like, it had to look like you were like Tyrannosaurus rex or whatever. Coming up on this. Well, you know, was it a female or a male?

It was a group of people. So, like it was non discriminant. No, we were talking about how the kind of the state of the industry is that, like, the customer's expectations when they come in for service is that it just doesn' like that. That's how low the bar is. And sometimes I get a little passionate about that particular topic.

Feels like you were reenacting a Steven Seagal scene from one of his movies.

The other thing that, now that you mentioned that, that I have to think about is it's funny when I meet with people now, and I'm sure this was happening to you when you were doing strategy sessions, is that I'm not on a computer for them anymore. They put me on a tv, like, so I'm on a big screen TV and I was Tyrannosaurus rexing them. And it might have been a bit much. So I'm really sorry about the passion. Who I should call them.

You should apologize. But I do like tense.

I like when you change myself.

You like to speak with your hands.

I do.

You know, I got that from Jimmy Swigert.

Yeah.

That's a you thing a little bit. No, I took it a little too far. But I started like the. I never did this before I met you.

I caught a fish this big.

You caught a fish this big. And another. Another criticism for those listening. He also putting your two hands. And then he does you do this.

I do.

Yeah.

But do I look mad?

No, you look happy. I meant to look happy, but apparently I was.

You know what my mom used to do when I was a kid is she used to hold my hands and then make me talk. And I couldn't really like. She thought it was bad.

It's.

I don't think it's bad to speak with your hands.

No, I like it very physical. There was something too, like when you do this. I don't know if that's an open your mind kind of thing. Like subconsciously they're. Or whatever. There's probably a term for that. But you love to do this. And it's when you're talking about, like expanding your mind or being creative, it almost always happens during this moment and then. Then sometimes you catch the fish.

The catch the fish is funny.

Yeah.

So funny. Man, I would have sworn you were, like, talking to your kid or something. Like, you got detention. One more time.

No, I did have a conversation with like that with him the other day because he'd. He's not doing well in his honors algebra.

Not doing well in his honors algebra. First of all, just the fact that he's in honors algebra is better than most.

Yeah, but he's in there for a reason. And he's. He's not doing well, which is only one.

How many times have you used algebra in your career?

Regularly. It's just filling in blanks. What we do is algebra.

What we do is simple math.

No, it's algebra.

How's it algebra?

Algebra is always filling in a hole.

Now if you told me like that.

Wasn'T the kind of algebra.

If you told me about calculus or quantum physics. No, I'm not using that every day. But basic algebraic equations we do all the time.

I don't even think we're using pre algebra.

We are. Like the way that you can find out ELR if you know like total sales and hours. It's more than that.

The formula, what is it? Labor sales divided by labor hours sold.

That is basic math. But if you have a hole and you don't know the hours, but you have ELR and you have the total dollars, you can figure out the hours you filling in a hole. Can we get a math teacher validation on this?

Do you think there's a lot of math teachers listening?

Yeah.

Three.

Oh, my goodness. Cell phone. Okay, well, we're going to. Now we're going to talk to one of our speakers from top dog October 23rd and 24th. He's the reason why a lot of you are getting drumsticks in the mail. You're probably wondering, there's a QR code on there. So once you hit that, there's a video of him talking about it. But we're excited to introduce you to one of our speakers, the opening speaker for Top Dog this year.

We are really excited today. Today's guest is Clint Pulver. He will be joining us of the opening night of this year's Top Dog event, which is going to be very exciting. October 23rd and 24th here in Los Angeles. Clint is an Emmy award winner, pro drummer and best selling author of I love it here. How Great Leaders Create Organizations. Their people will never want to leave. And everybody's going to be getting this book at the event known as the Undercover Millennial. He's helped organizations like Microsoft, NASA and the NBA build cultures. People never want to leave.

Clint, thank you for joining us today. And we're really, really looking forward to having you@Top Dog 2025. Tell us about how you became the expert that you are and what the audience should be prepared to experience when you take the stage next month.

Yeah. First of all, thanks for having me on. It's an honor to be here. For the last six and a half years, I've traveled the world as the Undercover Millennial. Kind of like Undercover Boss without the makeup. So I would go undercover into organizations as a young person looking for a job, and I would just walk up to the first employee that I saw, and I'd say, hey, I'm just. I'm thinking about applying. What's it like to work here? And the employees, they always get kind of quiet. They look around. Feels like an illegal drug exchange. And then they would tell me everything. Everything. They tell me the good, they would tell me the bad, what they loved, what they didn't love. And, man, the magic of what we were able to find through that research was not so much when people were dissatisfied with the job. The magic was found when I would ask, what's it like to work here? And employees would say, I love it here. I love it here. And that began the revolution of the Undercover Millennial program. And we've NOW worked with 697 different organizations, and as of this year, I've interviewed over 11,000 employees undercover. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's a wild. It's a wild adventure. But it's been super cool to find the hidden truths behind what makes people stay and what makes people head for the exit doors when it comes to employee retention.

So what's, like, the one commonality that you see over and over again when you're doing that?

Yeah. When. When. When people leave their jobs, when they hate their jobs, when they're dissatisfied with their jobs, they always talk about the manager. When people love their jobs, they always talk about the mentor. The mentor in the story. How does that manager, how does that leader, how does that dealer, how does that CEO become the mentor in the story? If you do that, you win in the game of retention.

That's great. So I was a drummer. Well, I guess you could say I still am a drummer. I just don't play that much. But growing up, I was pretty serious about it. The one thing that most people don't know about drummers is that they get all the chicks.

Yeah. Hey, there you go.

Not the singer. People think it's the singer. It's not the singer. It's the drummer. Every singer. I'll tell you that, too. But so how do you go from drums to you know, writing books and speaking in front of large audiences.

So as a little kid, I always struggled to sit still. You could maybe relate to this as.

A solo drummer, for sure.

And I think I would just tap. I would constantly move. Everybody saw the issue. They saw this annoyance. I got called the twitcher in school. I got called the tapper because I just couldn't sit still. And it happened again and again and again. I was constantly in trouble. Until one day there was a teacher. His name was Mr. Jensen. He told me to stay after class.

Everybody left. It's a completely empty room. I'm thinking, I'm getting kicked out of school as a 10 year old. He sits me down. He goes, listen. He said, clint, you're kind of the kid that's on the list. Like, you're constantly tapping, you're constantly moving. He said, I've watched you, though. And he's like, it's crazy. You take a pen and you work on an assignment. You write with your right hand and then you tap with your left hand. And then in the middle of the assignment, you switch the pen and you start writing with your left hand and you tap with your right hand. And he's like, listen, like, I. I think you're ambidextrous. And I was like, no, I'm. I'm Presbyterian. He's like, no, not what it means. And he said. He said, can you tap your head and then rub your belly at the same time? And I could do it. And he said, can you switch that? And I just. I had this independence. And he looked at me and he said, listen, I don't. I don't think you're a problem. I just think you're a drummer. And I will never forget. I'm somebody. Chris. I believe in the power of moments. I think if you look at your life, that's what makes it a great story. We don't remember days in our lives. We remember the moments. And in this moment, Mr. Jensen, he leans back in his desk and he opened up the top drawer and he took out my very first pair of drumsticks. And he put them in my hands. And he said, listen, kid, just keep them in your hands, keep the sticks in your hands, and let's see what happens. And that was over 28 years ago. And it was a moment that changed my Life. And for 28 years, I've had the opportunity to tour and record all over the world As a professional drummer. I played with Blue man Group, Tim McGraw, Carrie Underwood. My whole college education was paid for through music Scholarships. And, you know, I don't say that to go, oh, wow, good for you, Clint. Like, it's because of one moment where an educator created a moment where he saw an opportunity, not a problem. And it transformed everything in my life. So that is how the drumming story began.

Yeah.

It's crazy. And I know you kind of talk about this that like one person believing in you can completely change how you see the world and your trajectory. Right. That's incredible.

It's. It's. It's like that power of just like someone. Sometimes it's hard to see the. The picture when you're in the frame. Right. Like, it's. Sometimes it's hard to see our potential and our worth at times. And in my life, so much of that has come from other people seeing further than I ever could on my own people recognizing some things that I just didn't see. And in doing so, because of the moments that they created of advocacy, the moments of support, the moments of belief, to where I said, okay, maybe. Maybe this is it. Maybe they are right. And it just allowed me to write a better story. That concept in the world of retention is key. How do you become that, Mr. Jensen, that person that when people are with you, they go, I like myself best.

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Did you.

So do you. Do you play traditional or left handed? Which sides I had on?

Yeah, I play both. So I. Yeah, well, I play traditional grip like you do when you march. So I, I coached and did drum line. So we'd hold that stick a little weird on that left with the left hand and then I would hold match stick, but I'm right hand dominant. And so that hi hat is on my left side. But I can do. I can play open handed as well. There's a little bit of obviously the ambidextrous side, but right hand lead is my preference.

So I'm left handed. But I started playing in church and they wouldn't let me switch it. And so I had that same thing going for me where I was left handed, but I learned traditional. But it made, you know, it made me better than most because I could kind of do, you know, I could switch in a sense.

You were forced to. You were forced to like, move that over because they're not switching the hi hat. So that's cool.

It was great.

Okay, tell me about the. Your book. I love it here. It's an incredible little quote here from Maxwell that says one of a kind perspective that will transform leaderships for years to come. This is the book your Employees want you to read. I thought that was amazing.

It was a couple of really good endorsements in there.

Yeah. Yeah.

So tell me about, about the book and.

Yeah, yeah, so the book is cool because it's not another leadership book written by a self proclaimed leadership guru. Like, this is a book at the time that was written by 10,000 employees who knew what good leadership looked like to them. And I think that's the difference with this book. The perception of leadership versus the reality of an employee's experience. Usually there's a gap, right? Because there's no incentive for an employee, especially when things aren't going well, to walk up to a boss and really tell them what they think. Like, could you imagine if an employee walks up and is like, hey, listen, Doug, I think this could help you. Every time we lose as a team, you blame everybody else. And every time we win as a team, you take all the credit. Like, happy Tuesday, Doug. We just want you to know that they're not going to tell you that there's no incentive for an employee to tell you that. So instead, what do they do? They just, they leave. Or worse, they mentally check out and then they stay. And, and how we did this, how we wrote the book again, six years of research going in and capturing that perspective that most managers never heard. Right? Most leaders don't get to hear. And they just, you know, when, when things aren't going well, it's easy to point fingers. I hear all the time the manager saying, nobody wants to work. You know, nobody, nobody wants to work anymore. But the question is, do, do they want to work for you? And that was the magic of what happened when a leader became that person that people chose.

I love that you picked the name Doug.

That was it. It just kind of came out. So, Clint, many leaders today are facing high turnover and burnout. What's the biggest blind spot you see leaders struggling with right now when it comes to employee retention?

I think the biggest thing is understanding that every employee is a unique individual and a human. The moment we start looking at this employee base as a generation, or you look at them as a stereotype, it's the moment that you lose. People are people and people are very dynamic. I've met many millennials that are young, entitled, that want it now, they don't want to work for it, they're lazy. Maybe some of the stereotypes that you would hear. And then I've met many millennials that are incredibly hardworking, dedicated, willing to put in the time. It's the same thing with Gen Z. And I think sometimes as leaders, we look for those like, here's the five things you need to do from a Forbes article to tell us on how to retain our people. And the reality is, there's no generational hack. Every employee has what's called a status. I worked in the medical field for a little while, and the doctor would always call out and he would ask for, like, I need a status update. What the doctor was asking for is tell me what the heart rate, respiratory rate, body temperature, blood pressure is of that patient. We would then check the status of the patient, and the status would determine treatment. We would then treat the patient, and then we would recheck the status. That same formula. I think in the realm of employee retention, we have seen great leaders do, and it creates the most significant results when they understand the actual status of the people that they're leading. So we recommend what's called a status interview. It's very simple, and you would take, like, I think this is a cool, actionable thing that anyone that's listening to this podcast, you could do tomorrow with your people, and it would make a difference. If you're the mentor in the story, the status interview gives you the opportunity to understand what's really taking place. You would take an employee, one of your rock stars, one of your best people. You create a moment with them where you offer a little bit of vocal praise. You let them know why you need them. You let them know why they matter. And then I would challenge every leader right now to ask them three questions. The first question is, as your employer, as your boss, what can I do to keep you here? What do you. What. What do you. What do you need? Like, is it. Is it. Is it more time off? Is it a little better pay? Is it more flexibility? Is it the product? Is it the. Is it the environment? What can I do to keep you here? I need you. What can I do? The second thing is, what is getting in the way of your success at work?

Is it a co worker? Is it a. Another employee? Is it a. Is it the schedule? Is it, like, what's getting in the way of you being able to perform at your best? And then the third question is, as your manager, what can I do to help you get there? What can I do to help you get to where you need to go?

Very simple questions. But those three questions, most employees are never asked those three questions unless it's in the exit interview when the employees already decided, like, I'm out, I found a better opportunity. This is not where it's At. And then, and then the manager, when they get the two weeks notice, if, even if they hand us that, they're like, oh, come on, like, like, Steve, what else can I do to keep you here? Like, what can we do better? And then it dawns on you in that moment, I should have asked these questions six months ago. Communication to collaborate is key and having that status interview is important. And sometimes they're going to tell you things that you can't do. Right? You can say, what can I do to keep you here? And they're like, yeah, pay me 20% more. Give me a big corner office with big windows and ski passes, then I'll stay. And you're like, I can't, I can't do that. What the status interview, though, does is it gives you the opportunity as a leader to look for variables. How can we create collaboration? How can we create partnership in this where I'm not here to pull you, I'm not here to push you, I'm here to walk with you. And then at the end of the day, if there's no resolve that can be obtained, my goodness, at least you asked. That's our job as the leader, is to get to the part about them. And the status interview is a beautiful way to start doing that better.

That's great. I love, I love that.

I think that the, that's probably one of the most profound things is by the time someone gives their notice. I always think about this, like in the times where I've had somebody give, submit their notice to me is like the months or days or weeks, like how long did they think about it before they come in? Like, it's so far done. By the time they actually hand you the piece of paper, they let you know they're giving the two weeks. Like, I don't know if there's a better lesson than status updates, like the look at your exit interview and ask those questions in month three, month six, month nine, because they don't matter at the end.

Correct. 100. And that's usually when we ask them, which is so ironic. Yeah, it's good.

So when you sign up for Top Dog and quite a few people have already, you get these drumsticks from Clint in, in the mail with some other stuff. But it's going to be fun. I'll tell you, Clint, you, you're going to have a blast with, with our group. Like.

They'Re super talented and really fun and I love it that you're starting off the, the whole event that evening.

Because I don't know it's gonna set the tone. I'm really excited about that part of it. I think, I think it's great.

I, I took the drumsticks to a Chinese buffet and they got mad at me.

Right? They're too big. They're too big.

I will tell you, I will tell you this. It will not be a death by PowerPoint experience like this will be off the charts, engaging full throttle. It will set the tone. That is for sure. There it is. There it is.

So great. Well, I, I can't wait. And I promise you, you're going to have a great time. We look forward to it. We appreciate you doing this and we will have Clint's book for you. But if you're not coming to Top Dog, I would encourage you to pick it up on Amazon or your local bookstore. And it's pretty great stuff. So thank you, Clint, and we'll, we'll see you real soon.

Thanks so much for watching this episode of Service Job Revolution. We're uploading new stuff every day, so make sure you subscribe and click the bell icon so you don't miss out. If you have a question you'd like to us to answer on the show, call 8333 ask SDR and we'll answer your question on the show. That's 8333, ask SDR. For special deals on our books and training, head over to offers.chris collinsinc.com that's offers.chris collins inc.com I'm Chris Collins, and I'll see you in the next video.